Ponder and Magnify: A Rosary Podcast

S2, E11 - The Assumption Bible Study (John 14: 1-3)

• John and Jessica Helling • Season 2 • Episode 11

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The mission of the Ponder and Magnify Podcast is to seek an encounter with Jesus through praying the rosary, relying on the grace of the Holy Spirit and the intercession of Mary. Join us as we dive into the Fourth Glorious Mystery of the Rosary! In this episode, Jess, John, and Fr. Archer discuss Mary's Assumption with John 14: 1-3. Praise be to God!

Jessica:

Hello and welcome to the Ponder and Magnify podcast, where our mission is to seek an encounter with Jesus through praying the rosary, relying on the grace of the Holy Spirit and the intercession of Mary. I am so happy that you are here. Welcome everybody. Today we are going to be diving into the fourth glorious mystery the Assumption of Mary. I am joined again by John and Father Archer, and we are looking forward to inviting the Holy Spirit into our conversation and really getting into it. So, father Archer, would you mind opening us up in prayer?

Fr. Archer:

Be happy to. In the name of the Father, of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, Amen. Heavenly Father, in the moment when our Blessed Mother's earthly journey was done, you took her body and soul to enjoy the vision of your beatific glory. It gives us peace and hope to imagine her eyes opening to look upon the face of her beloved son once more as she entered into your kingdom of heaven. May we cherish this hope in our hearts and we ask for the grace of confidence that one day we too shall enjoy the resurrection of our bodies and be greeted by that same glorious vision. We pray this in Jesus' name Amen. In the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, Amen.

Jessica:

Thank you so much, Father. Okay, we are going to start off. Johnny, you were prepped and ready to go. So what is your one word or phrase to describe how you are doing tonight?

John:

So I am bewildered. Bewildered because our oldest daughter, who feels like was born yesterday, lost her second tooth. And you know, working in the dental field that's a big deal in our house, but just the fact that, yeah, she's getting older and you know it's crazy, she'll be going off to college tomorrow. Now, I guess

Jessica:

I hope not

John:

. How about you?

Jessica:

My word that I am choosing for this moment is seeking. I'm choosing that because the assumption I think it's how you described the Resurrection, Father Archer for yourself, but for me the Assumption is just a mystery that I feel like I spend a lot of time meditating and praying with and yet haven't even tapped into yet. The Assumption is when I made my original consecration to Mary and renew it every year, and kind of like they say sometimes, how your confirmation saint chooses you, you don't choose your confirmation saint. I feel that way about my consecration day, like somehow the Assumption was chosen for me rather than me choosing the Assumption, and I just feel like it will be the work of my life trying to understand more and more deeply what it means for me personally. And yeah, so I'm just, anytime I can discuss it or think about it or meditate on it, I'm just really excited about it. How about you, Father Archer?

Fr. Archer:

My word today is peace, ever since watching Leo, pope Leo step out on the Logia and the first words that he spoke peace be with you. There is a beautiful moment to kind of receive those words and especially that gift that the first time he spoke to the world as the Holy Father, he didn't use his own words, but he used the words of Christ risen from the dead. Peace be with you. And these first couple days and weeks of seeing Pope Leo and, you know, stalking him on different YouTube channels and reading some of his first homilies and writings and things there is such a tremendous theme of peace and I've been resting more with that word and finding great encouragement in the messages that he has.

Jessica:

So beautiful. All right, let's jump into the Assumption.

Jessica:

Father Archer, I wonder if you could give us a little background on what the Assumption is before we jump into Scripture

Fr. Archer:

In the scriptures, although there are different allusions to the fact that our Blessed Mother Mary is in heaven, indeed, especially Revelation, chapter 12. There's a very clear image, but it was a feast that was in a tradition that was present from the very first days of the church, dating all the way back to the first century in the city of Jerusalem. The early Christians had a devotion and a tradition around the site where our Blessed Mother was assumed, body and soul, into heaven. There was a kind of an interesting debate of sorts between the Eastern and the Western Church. In the Eastern church, the tradition was that she had died and then was taken up into heaven just after she passed away. Just after her death, her body was assumed, body and soul, together. In the Western church, though, the tradition became that it was like right leading up to when she was about to die, and then she was assumed into heaven.

Fr. Archer:

What's kind of fun about it is that when this feast was declared by Pope Pius XII in Munificentius Deus in 1950, he didn't really want to take sides between those two positions. And so and he uses the language he says at the moment of her passing from this world, and so he kind of dodged that whole thing. But what we believe with the Assumption, is that at the moment of Mary's passing from this world, God chose to bring her body and soul into heaven, that she who had preserved the purity of her body and had preserved that great gift and grace of her virginity throughout the entirety of her life, that her body itself had been made sacred by the Lord, her body was the vessel that had brought God into the world, into his humanity, and that her body, being so sacred as the vessel of the Lord itself, was preserved incorrupt, even from the stain of death.

Jessica:

I love how you described that. There were parts of that that I never really had considered or thought of before, so thank you so much for taking the time. I wonder if you would proclaim our scripture that we chose for this one oh go, Johnny go.

John:

Quick question. Did you I don't know if I heard you right Did you say that, even though the Assumption isn't explicitly found in scripture? So did I hear you right there?

Fr. Archer:

Yes, yeah, that's correct.

John:

Is there any theory like why it's not when it's like such a fundamental part of the story?

Fr. Archer:

Sure, yeah, absolutely, it's a great question. The last time our Blessed Mother is directly mentioned is in Acts, chapter 2, the Feast of Pentecost is when she is mentioned, and at that time it mentions that Peter, all the apostles and disciples were gathered together with Mary, the mother of Jesus. And then, as we talked about a little bit last time, then there's this kind of like mystery of Mary's silence and her motherhood in the silence. But at the same time, especially in some of the Second Vatican II, second Vatican Council documents, there's a quote that they have from some of the fathers of the church that whatever can be said of Mary individually can be said of the church universally, and whatever can be said of the church universally can be said of Mary individually. And so Lumen Gentium, which is the Dogmatic Constitution on the Church, the final chapter chapter 16, is really just a beautiful reflection on the role of our Blessed Mother in the life of faith, and it speaks of the fact that in Mary we find our own hope of salvation, that in her person the Church has already attained its form of the spotless bride of Christ towards which we are heading, and she enjoys that now in glory.

Fr. Archer:

Pope Benedict, before he was Pope, when he was Cardinal Ratzinger, wrote about this feast and he said it's not so much a historical discovery or like a historical investigation that led to the declaration of the Feast of the Assumption, but instead it was a theological one, through that kind of investigation of reading closely the scriptures and the Church, pondering and reflecting on the role of our Blessed Mother in the life of faith and then also having these unbroken traditions from the early church. So the historical element was there, but it was a lot of theological reflection that eventually led to Pope Pius XII saying you know, this actually is dogma and this is something that Christians have always believed, but we're solemnizing that belief now and declaring this dogma.

Jessica:

I love, Father Archer, how you said, was this quoting from Lumen Gentium, when you said in Mary is our hope for salvation. Was that Lumen Gentium that you said?

Fr. Archer:

Yes.

Jessica:

Okay, I love that. I feel like that could be unpacked in so many different ways. But before we started the microphones rolling, we talked about how, in the Assumption, we see God's plan for all souls kind of exactly what you were just talking about of what is true of Mary is true for the universal church and just how another beautiful part of this mystery as with everything with Mary it always refers back to God and gives God glory and also has significance for us too. And we were talking before we had microphones rolling just about the resurrection of the body and how it is our belief in the Catholic Church that our bodies will be reunited with our souls in heaven, and how the Assumption is kind of I guess there was never that disintegration for Mary, like she was always just body and soul on earth and then up to heaven, but in a beautiful way it foreshadows what in the Father's design he has planned for us. Is that accurate?

Fr. Archer:

Yes, oh, absolutely. That's absolutely correct. I find it kind of fun going to the grade school. Sometimes I'll ask the students there do you think you get your bodies back at the end of time? And honestly, it's pretty often a 50-50 split. About half the kids have put it together and realized what the word resurrection means, and the other half they say it at Mass all the time but they don't really understand that they're not just a soul in heaven for eternity, but their body comes back. And so it's great to ponder, look at your hands and your feet and just your physical self and realize like this is coming back, but probably like the warts and disfigurements are going to be gone and it's just going to be the glorious body that we have at that general resurrection.

Jessica:

So beautiful. Thank you for going into that with us before we start. Would you proclaim our scripture for us now, Father Archer?

Fr. Archer:

I'd be delighted A reading from the Gospel of St John Do not let your hearts be troubled. You have faith in God. Have faith also in me. In my Father's house there are many dwelling places. If there were not, would I have told you that I am going to prepare a place for you, and if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back again and take you to myself so that where I am, you also may be.

John:

All right, Jess, can you kick us off what stuck out to you?

Jessica:

My imagination was really rolling with this one. I was just thinking about what that moment must have been like for Mary and Jesus to encounter each other after having undergone all that they went through together on earth. I mean together, they really shared a life of suffering. Even from the moment that Jesus was born. There was a level of suffering involved in having no room in the inn, as Scripture says, or having to flee to Egypt. I mean there was such suffering throughout the whole course, of course, culminating in the passion.

Jessica:

But just imagining them meeting together after having all that earthly suffering, in the state where they have been promised no more suffering and as a mother, it just it makes me almost teary-eyed to think about Mary seeing Jesus's wounds in heaven and I just think, as a mom, like her, reaching to them and like touching them, like wanting to kiss them, like and him to be able to reveal to her like they don't hurt anymore, they're all, they're all given for God's glory and I just that fills me with so much hope, just that the suffering of our earthly life. We're promised that we will have a time where we don't experience that and I imagine Mary and Jesus just like so, in sync. Sometimes I like to think about, like what did they say to each other? But today, when I was imagining it or as we were reflecting, taking our time, I was thinking like I don't even think they were speaking. I think they were just holding each other, imagining their physical hearts the Immaculate Heart and the Sacred Heart were like so, in such close proximity to each other again and just being so in sync with the joy of having endured the earthly suffering and now being together again.

Jessica:

And I, just like we said earlier, it just gives me so much hope that this moment is a foreshadowing of what we are promised to experience. To be able to hug Jesus at one point, but also hug those we love, and just be able to do that without the experience of suffering, is just such a beautiful thing to meditate on, I think. Father Archer, what about you?

Fr. Archer:

My meditation was taken kind of in a different direction. Rather than being specifically between Mary and Jesus and what that was like, it was pondering a little bit on how the Assumption is also relevant to the relationship between Mary and us who are still on this earth, because for myself, I think probably for most of humanity death is something that is a little bit scary. I've been privileged a number of times to be with people when they pass away, and there are some people who pass with just a tremendous sense of peace. There's others who it can be a little more scary and you can see the fear might be present. Part of the gift of the priesthood is usually when I'm there the fear starts to subside with the Sacraments and the Anointing of the Sick. But the way that I was praying with now, which is an image I've prayed with before, with the Assumption, is basically the question is okay, why is it so important for Mary to have her body in heaven Like, why does that matter to us? And of course my mind goes to that golden season of my life when I would swim every day with John as my captain.

Fr. Archer:

But if you think of swimming pools, often children are a little bit afraid to jump in the water and they'll hang out on the side for a long time.

Fr. Archer:

But if their mom gets in the water and then she's holding out her arms, the child will probably quite readily jump into that pool. Because the mother is there, the child knows that it's safe, and I think the Assumption is exactly that kind of gift for us. That Mary has You know, she jumped in the pool, she's on the other side side, she's got her body there and we jump in, and so that when it comes to the moment of our death, this mystery, in a really kind of profound way, can speak to us and offer that reassurance that you know there's nothing to be afraid of, because our Blessed Mother has gone before, she's already in the water, she's not afraid, she's calm, she's waiting, and so we can go to her with peace. And so I think there's a real grace in the mystery of the Assumption when it comes to contemplating our own moment of passing from this world. John, what about you?

John:

So the line where it says, if I go, just to, I go and I prepare a place for you. It was just reminding me of, right before our oldest daughter was born, a friend of mine who's about five years older and you know his, his kids are a little bit older. He reached out and was like, hey, let's go grab a drink and let's kind of check in see how you're doing. And we were just talking about what it's like before your first kid is born and or just before really any child is born.

John:

Because this was like a month, a month or two before, you know, our daughter was due, and he was like he just kind of smiled at me and he was like, so are you nesting?

John:

And I kind of like paused and looked at him and I was like, yeah, like I am, I didn't even realize it.

John:

He was like oh yeah, dude, it just sneaks up on you.

John:

Like you know you're having a kid and then all of a sudden it's like you know you go all up on you, like you know you're having a kid and then all of a sudden it's like you know you go all logistical, like you got to get a room ready, you got to make sure that the car seats in the car, you got to make sure you have your bag packed, you have your wife is going to have everything she needs for when the baby comes, and just things like that and I don't know. It kind of made me smile and think that Jesus and God are nesting for us and just kind of waiting for us and getting ready for us to come. But yeah, it just made me smile and think back on that, on that memory that I had with with Justin, where he just kind of as a father who's kind of gone through it before just you know I could see his experience through his question. But yeah, it made me just think of at least what I like to imagine how God's getting ready for us.

Jessica:

Two things I love about that. First is just how your Vocation as father lends a window into how God operates, and just your paternity is such a gift for our family, and just seeing that it's also a gift to you in how it helps you to know God better is amazing. And I also love this idea of God nesting for us, because in having that experience with our first daughter and subsequent children, that nesting season is done with joy and anticipation, true excited delight of like this is going to be amazing kind of thing, and I like to imagine the Father, the Trinity, even nesting for us in that spirit, just like with such eager anticipation for us to arrive home. John, Father Archer, thank you so much for these beautiful reflections. Is there anything else either of you have on your heart to share before we wrap up?

Jessica:

Can you say no?

Fr. Archer:

No

John:

No, I think. I think we nailed all those reflections.

Jessica:

Thank you, Holy Spirit, for that. Oh goodness, oh, it's always so good to be with you guys and have these chats. I'm so thankful. Well, to all those who are listening, count on our continued prayers for you and please, please, we ask for you to keep praying for us. Praise be to God.