Ponder and Magnify: A Rosary Podcast

S3, E11 - The Transfiguration of Jesus Bible Study (Luke 9:28-36)

• John and Jessica Helling • Season 3 • Episode 11

Share episode

The mission of the Ponder and Magnify Podcast is to seek an encounter with Jesus through praying the rosary, relying on the grace of the Holy Spirit and the intercession of Mary. Join us as we dive into the Fourth Luminous Mystery of the Rosary! In this episode, Jess, John, and Fr. Philipp discuss the Transfiguration of Jesus using the account from Luke 9: 28-36. May we all be in Heaven together! Praise be to God!

Jess:

Hello, and welcome to the Ponder and Magnify Podcast, where our mission is to seek an encounter with Jesus through praying the rosary, relying on the grace of the Holy Spirit and the intercession of Mary. I am so happy that you are here. Welcome everyone. Today, in today's episode, John, Father Philipp, and I are going to be diving into the scripture around the fourth luminous mystery, the transfiguration of Jesus. Father Philipp, would you mind starting us off in prayer?

Fr.Philipp:

Sure. In the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Amen. Jesus, we turn to you, you who are the light of the world, the light coming into the world that illumines all men. We ask you to cast your light in our hearts and our minds to open us that you might transform and transfigure us, to make us like yourself, images of you in this world. Be with us today and help us to be attentive to your voice in our hearts and our minds and our daily lives. We ask this in your most holy name. Amen. In the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. Amen.

Jess:

Amen. Thank you, Father. Alright, Johnny, what is your word for this episode? How are you doing?

John:

My word or words that I'm going with today is anticipatory solace.

Jess:

Wow.

John:

Being all bougie. I was out of town last weekend, and so on the eve of this upcoming weekend, I always feel like that first weekend back after you've been on vacation or after you've been out of town. Um there's something about just like taking comfort and joy in just being home. And you know, we have a easy, low-key but fun weekend that I'm excited about. And I'm excited to just relax and and take joy in the and kind of the simplicity of this weekend. Father Philipp?

Fr.Philipp:

The word that I have is um is like yeah, I guess it's calm, but for me, for me, it's like it that what that means is I guess I'm inhabiting a a space of kind of like just the the normal tensions of life in a different way, it just feels like the Lord's given that gift. Um, and so like the the space of of calm amidst the kind of the the the things that are surrounding me, the storms that are surrounding me. So that that yeah, that's the word calm.

Jess:

That's a big gift.

John:

You didn't want to go more wordy, like unwavering steadiness.

Fr.Philipp:

No, I used enough words the last time we met. How about you, Jess?

Jess:

My word is learning. Um, these past couple weeks, I felt like the Holy Spirit was so tenderly teaching me and helping me to relearn about prayer. There was something um that was kind of on John and I's hearts that had been bothering us that we finally got to resolution to today. But a couple of weeks ago, when we were like really in the thick of it, when I would go to pray about it. I would go and honestly, like my prayer was almost like a vent session to the Lord. Like it was just me like ruminating and I was leaving prayer, not feeling your word, Father Philipp, calm. I was leaving like almost more stirred up at times. And I kept thinking, like, I kept praying, like, Lord, why is this happening? Like, I'm supposed to spend time with you and feel like resolved about things or like get this new perspective. And I I came to a point in my prayer where I was like, show me, show me what I'm doing wrong here. Why am I not getting the peace that I'm that I know that you're offering to me in this situation? Why am I not seeing it? And I was just reminded through a series of conversations, like random things that I'd be reading, that just coming to prayer like principally is like focusing on the Lord and the Lord's love and letting that kind of shape the perspective. And I was going in, like listing my grievances to the Lord. And I don't think there's ever a wrong way to pray. I think anytime you take time aside to pray and to be in communion with the Lord, like God just absolutely delights in that. So I think there's no wrong way to pray. But I was definitely blocking the effectiveness of prayer to my own heart by the way that I was approaching it. And so I finally felt like some good peace in prayer after just really focusing in um on just like being with Jesus rather than like venting about the situation essentially. And anyway, today we got to a good place of resolution, and I'm just feeling really thankful for that and thankful to still always be learning and relearning The Lord is so patient with me. So, anywho, that is where I am at today. But we have other wonderful things to discuss today. So, the transfiguration. Father Philipp, can you proclaim for us the scripture that we agreed on for this one?

Fr.Philipp:

Yeah, we're gonna we're gonna read Luke 9, verses 28 through 36. A reading from the Holy Gospel according to Luke. About eight days after he said this, he took Peter, John, and James and went up the mountain to pray. While he was praying, his face changed in appearance, and his clothing became dazzling white. And behold, two men were conversing with him, Moses and Elijah, who appeared in glory and spoke of his exodus that he was going to accomplish in Jerusalem. Peter and his companions had been overcome by sleep, but becoming fully awake, they saw his glory and the two men standing with him. As they were about to part from him, Peter said to Jesus, Master, it is good that we are here. Let us make three tents, one for you, one for Moses, and one for Elijah. But he did not know what he was saying. While he was still speaking, a cloud came and cast a shadow over them, and they became frightened when they entered the cloud. Then from the cloud came a voice that said, This is my chosen son. Listen to him. After the voice had spoken, Jesus was found alone. They fell silent and did not at that time tell anyone what they had seen.

Jess:

After pausing and taking some time to pray and reflect, Father Philipp, what was sticking out to you here?

Fr.Philipp:

So this Luke reading is the one that we had for the the gospel. And um the thing that has been like jumping out to me, I guess it's a couple it's a couple things. So um I didn't realize how layered Luke's account of this is with um the the images from the Exodus, so like for from from the book of Exodus. So that like you you have you have all these allusions to to Moses going up to the mountain, and the like so you have the glory cloud that comes upon the tent of meeting, you have like his Jesus' face is the thing that's changed, because that's like Moses' face is the thing that's illumined and full of light. He has to wear a veil afterwards, and then like the thing that jumped out to me when we were just doing this when I was praying was the becoming fully awake, they saw his glory. Uh, and and I realized I was part of part of Moses's like pleading with the Lord after you have the golden calf incident is like him saying, like, Lord, show me your glory. And the the Lord says, like, you can't see my face, you can't see my glory, but like I'll put you behind the rock and I'll proclaim a name, right? Um, and so you have these allusions to like the the way that the Lord has like been coming into and breaking through with Moses into his people's lives, but then you have this fulfillment in like the the new Moses who's come to lead his people and this exodus that he's going to accomplish in Jerusalem into this new life, and like we see his glory. and like the glimpse of that glory is actually the the first part, like this is what it kind of was resonating in. And I know I think in cloud terms, so it's like I have all this stuff going on. so it's like a spider web that has like you flick it and like the whole thing kind of goes to different directions. So uh, but the that Jesus this whole thing begins in with Luke with Jesus praying. So like what is what is his glory? It's like the revelation of his relationship to the Father. Um and like St. Thomas Aquinas, when he talks about glory, he says it's clara notitia cum laude, clear knowledge with with praise. And so like the glory that we see is like who Jesus is in his fullness as a as a chosen son of the Father, who's in this deeply intimate relationship with him, who is one with the Father, um, and that this like brings about this outburst of like Peter, like this praise, it's like it's good, um, this delight, and so just the invitation then to like be taken into this and transformed by it, right? To be to be changed by the encounter with Jesus and and seeing him, seeing the Father. Um and then yeah, just like the the whole that whole space in which then the Father's like, listen to this one because he knows me. Right. this is my chosen son, listen to him. And Jesus like Jesus says in the in the gospel of John, like, I call you friends because I've told you everything that the Father has has has has spoken to me. Like I've told you everything. And so just this this way in which like looking at Jesus in prayer, looking at Jesus in his glory, like brings about this this entryway into this new sort of life and this new knowledge. Um yeah, and just the invitation there. I'd that was what was striking me. Um just this, yeah, the the layers of of like who the who Jesus is.

Jess:

I've been um reading from this prayer book. Um it's a consecration book, a consecration to Jesus through Mary with St. John Paul II. And I a few days ago, this book was leading me to meditate on the transfiguration and just these beautiful words of Pope John Paul II that I feel like are so in sync and echoing the things that you were saying, I would love to share. Pope John Paul said, "The gospel scene of Christ's transfiguration, in which the three apostles, Peter, James, and John, appear entranced by the beauty of the Redeemer, can be seen as an icon of Christian contemplation. To look upon the face of Christ, to recognize its mystery amid the daily events and the sufferings of his human life, and then to grasp the divine splendor definitively revealed in the risen Lord, seated in glory at the right hand of the Father. This is the task of every follower of Christ, and therefore the task of each one of us. I feel like that's like an echo of exactly what you just said, just like beholding the face of Jesus. And that really stuck out to me in this one when we were choosing a passage, kind of looking at all the different gospel accounts. It's only in Matthew and Luke where his face is mentioned. And um, I think that is a really powerful image of like prayer can just be a beholding of the face of Christ. And actually, after I read those words from Pope John Paul II, the rosary I prayed that day, I as I was going through the mysteries, like I was just imagining like what Jesus' like facial expression was during each of the mysteries. And it was a really powerful um meditation and contemplation for me. So I really appreciate that's what you're saying. And I love that you're being echoed by a saint, Father Philipp. I'm taking that as a you are

Fr.Philipp:

I bet I bet it's the opposite. So the one who actually created or like instituted the luminous mysteries is probably the one who has the greater portion.

Jess:

Well, no, I think that you're going for sainthood, is what I think that means. You're speaking like a saint, Father Philipp. That's all I'm saying. Johnny, what stuck out to you?

John:

I think I've shared. I always like to try and just like imagine like what it would like to be there and kind of felt this way when when John baptizes Jesus, like what it would have been like to see kind of like the heavens open up like that, like what it would be like to be you know, Peter, John, and and James here, to see all this and just like not just like one thing, but like Jesus is he's transformed, and then also there's there's this cloud, and then there they hear this voice that says, This is my chosen son, listen to him, and like all like the dust settles, and like and they're just like quiet. Like, why are they quiet? Are they filled with joy? Like, oh my gosh, we just saw like the coolest thing in the history of mankind. Are they like, oh my gosh, we like we got a job to do now, like we gotta like kind of the responsibility of seeing that. Like, then they gotta go out and you know, kind of act on it. I don't know, it would be it would be nuts. Um so yeah, maybe their minds were just blown, and so they were just like trying to take it all in, or I don't know. But uh that's that's what I was trying to do just as we were listening to it, just trying to put myself in the shoes of of those three.

Jess:

I really like that too, especially when we're talking about prayer as like a contemplating the face of Christ. Like that is exactly what you're doing there, is like putting yourself. I like that the story lends itself so easily to putting yourself in the scene of just looking, like beholding Christ in his glory and what kind of impact that has on the heart. That's beautiful, John. Thanks for sharing.

Fr.Philipp:

Yeah, and it's that like you're pointing out, they're silent before him, and there's just a space in prayer sometimes. Just be like, I'm here, Lord. I don't know what's going on. Right. I'm overwhelmed, Lord. Just don't even say anything. You're just like, uh, whatever, I've I've showed up. Um, which is kind of the that kind of question. Like, I think I think you're touching on the the reality of like what don't we all experience? It's awesome.

John:

Jess, did anything stick out to you?

Jess:

Yeah, I actually was really struck um by Moses being there, which I felt affirmation when you were sharing, Father Philipp, about the ties to the Exodus. I think this is because yesterday our gospel not our gospel, our first reading was when Moses gets to look out over the promised land, knowing that he won't get to enter it. And when I was praying with that yesterday, and kind of like in anticipation for conversations tonight and just trying to open the heart to the Holy Spirit, I was really thinking about what that must have felt like. Like after all that Moses did for the Israelite people, now he's overlooking the promised land, but isn't able to enter it. Part of me wanted to be like, this is an injustice. He did so much for everybody. But part of me was filled with like, he was at, I feel like he was at peace with that because he had spent so much time in close proximity to the Lord, like face to face, hearing his word directly. And we know, and it's so beautiful to think about in this transfiguration story, too, that the more time we spend close to the Lord, the more we become like him. So this whole idea of like at the transfiguration, like beholding Jesus' glory, like we're actually also transformed into that glory. But just imagining in this context of Moses, that he is just so I liked imagining him so delighted that those that he loved, like his people, the Israelite people, God's people, knowing that they would get to enjoy the fruits of the promised land, um, and what peace that would have spoken to his heart in his dying. And then as I was praying, I was really thinking about that. And then I was praying and really thinking about this transfiguration story. I was like, of course, the Lord gives him what's even greater than the earthly promised land. And the transfiguration is like a confirmation that what God provided Moses was something so much better. He got an inheritance of eternal life in the heavenly promised land, like witnessed in the fact that he's appearing with Jesus, knowing the plan, discussing with Jesus this exodus into Jerusalem. Like Moses was not gypped by God and not being able to enter. And I just think so often we can look at situations in our life or in the situations of people that we love and be like, that's unfair. Like that's unfair that that was the hand that they were dealt, or something like that. And it was just such a reminder when he showed up in the transfiguration. I don't think I've ever really paid attention to it, but just in light of that story, it was like, no, God will never leave us gypped. And what he wants to offer to us, what he wants to provide, like his provision is always so much greater because it has an eternal, an eternal benefit for us. He's thinking eternally, not here in our earthly, like he's not limited by thinking of just what's best for us on earth. Like his his goal for us is an eternal beatitude. And it just, I was really reminded of that with those two passages side by side, like just Moses overlooking the earthly promised land and then Moses appearing here in the transfiguration.

John:

That's that's really cool. And I to your point of what you were talking about there, I have a question that I've always kind of wondered about this, and it's I'm sure it's more of just lack of understanding and probably an embarrassing question, but like why is Elijah there? Like the Mount Rushmore. I feel like Moses, like you'd think Mary or Joseph or someone else would be there, but like Father Philipp, what is there a I don't know, any input on the significance of it being Elijah there too?

Fr.Philipp:

So I think uh one of the the the main like ways the traditions understood this is that Moses represents the the whole of like the law, so the the Pentateuch and like the giving of the law, and then you have Elijah who is like the greatest of the of the prophets, and so you have like the whole of the like the Old Testament, the whole of God's like original covenant and his people testifying and like present to the one who's fulfilling it. And so there's this like um yeah, it's like it's almost like the symbolic fullness of of like the testimony of of all that God has spoken before, pointing to this one. And then I think like you can you can then think of like the the fullness of his word is is there, right? The one who is the word, and so that's that's the one we listen to and who makes sense of all of that's come before. So I don't think that's a so it's not not a not a um bad question at all. Yeah. And and just like the the reality of the um like Moses standing on Nebo and like looking out and like not having this fulfilled, like goodness, the tenderness, like it's a beautiful gift to like connect these two, the tenderness of God to then show Moses his son, right? Like the and to see like he gets to see his glory, like see him in glory. Um yeah, wow.

Jess:

Yeah, and see him in glory and and like be ready to like take it into his heart. Whereas like the apostles see him in his glory and are like, you know, some of the passages say they're falling in fear, some of them say like, oh, they're falling into a deep sleep. Like they can't quite yet handle it. And I think it's the Luke passage. Wait, which one did we just read?

Fr.Philipp:

Lu ke.

Jess:

Luke, okay. I think it's it's in a different one, it's not in the Luke one where they like fall to the ground and Jesus picks them up and is like, rise and do not be afraid. And I love that version too, because it's like God realizes like I want to show them this glory but their hearts are not quite ready. So I'm gonna just pick them up and we're gonna keep going and I'm gonna meet them exactly where they are. But like Moses, he's ready for that. Like he's conversing with the glorified Christ. Like I just think it's so, it's so beautiful. And it just, I really feel like such a window into the heart of the Father who just really wants to provide for us and wants us to experience the fullness of what of what he has to offer us. Ooh, John, Father Philipp, anything left to add?

Fr.Philipp:

Yeah, I think uh one thing that that I like when when you're talking when you're just speaking just like the the reality of Moses and Elijah conversing with him, speaking of his excess that was he's going to accomplish in Jerusalem. There's this sense of like already you see this communion with those who are waiting the glory of the Lord to be fully revealed, like the the communion of heaven without like they're because they're not yet in heaven, but like the communion of the like the just who are waiting this thing to happen, and the fact that they know about it and they're speaking to him about it, and like what that dialogue must be, because it's it's the case that they're actually in communion with Jesus at every moment of his life. I was just like marveling at that that the sense of like the what what this is in terms of like a glimpse of the communion of saints and like all the saints who are are kind of constantly in in communion, conversing with Jesus, and also then in communion with us and like speaking to us and encouraging us, you know, like being with us in the midst of like these these moments in our lives. So yeah, just like that kind of was the last thing that kind of bubbled up um while we were while you were talking.

Jess:

I like the idea too of like Moses. I don't know as much for Elijah, but like Moses, you know, going to the tent of meeting, speaking with the Lord face to face, and just like his constant connection with the Lord, that that is carried on. It's not like replaced by something new, it's like brought to its fullness then after he moves on from earth. And it's just as cool to think that we can already participate in the fruits of heaven, like that communion with God, the communion with the saints, like already while we're on earth, like in a glimpse, too. I love that. All right, you guys. Oh, thank you so much. And thank you, Holy Spirit. What a gift this has been to dive into this beautiful, beautiful passage. Everyone listening, please count on our continued prayers. It's such a joy to pray for you. And please, please, we ask you humbly to pray for us. Praise be to God.