S4, E14 - The Finding in the Temple Bible Study (Luke 2: 41-52)

The mission of the Ponder and Magnify Podcast is to seek an encounter with Jesus through praying the rosary, relying on the grace of the Holy Spirit and the intercession of Mary. Join us as we dive into the Fifth Joyful Mystery of the Rosary! In this episode, Jess, John, and Fr. Hecktor discuss the account of the Finding of Jesus in the Temple from Luke 2: 41-52. May we all be in Heaven one day! Praise be to God!

Transcript

Jessica 0:04

Hello, and welcome to the Ponder and Magnify podcast, where our mission is to seek an encounter with Jesus through praying the rosary, relying on the grace of the Holy Spirit and the intercession of Mary. I am so happy that you are here. Welcome everybody to this final Bible study episode, hard to believe, of our season here. This week we'll be focusing on the Fifth Joyful Mystery, the Finding in the Temple. For this episode, I am joined again by John and Father Hecktor. What a gift. And we are excited to jump into this mystery. Father Hecktor, would you open us up in prayer?

Fr. Hecktor 0:44

Happy to. In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Amen. Lord, in our lives, in our faith lives, as we seek to follow you, very often we find ourselves lost, find ourselves away from you in sin or confused or doubtful. And we thank you, Lord, that you come to search for us and find us. And help us, Lord, to always find you. Know that we can find you in church, in the tabernacle. We know that you are there and we can find hope and peace and comfort in knowing you are present among us and know where we can always find you. We thank you, Lord, for your presence. We thank you for being with us. Help us, Lord, to grow always in our faith and trust in you. We make these prayers through Christ, our Lord. Amen. In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Amen.

Jessica 1:30

Amen. Thank you, Father. Father Hecktor, what is something that you are thankful for?

Fr. Hecktor 1:37

Well, speaking of this mystery, I'm I am thankful that I live where I live, that I can walk across the parking lot and see Jesus right there in the church all the time, although I probably don't utilize that as much as I should. But I am grateful for that, that I'm there. Our Lord is always there. And again, I can always grow in appreciation of that, but I am very grateful that God is there. And when I take the time to do that, there is so much good that comes from that. Whether I recognize it or not, or feel it or not, I know there's a lot of good that comes from that. So I'm very grateful for God's presence and grateful that I can say just take a short walk across the parking lot, and he's right there. What about you, Jessica?

Jessica 2:17

I am kind of astounded that we have made it this far in Ponder and Magnify and come to this final group episode of this final season of what the Lord originally put on our heart. It just feels like such a gift. So I'm really thankful for that. And I was praying over the last few weeks specifically for this season. And there was a Scripture that was part of the readings for the day that I just really felt on my heart was meant to be shared on this podcast. So I just want to do that. I have been praying a lot recently with the titles of Mary. And it occurred to me when I was praying my rosary one day. Um, and I was really thinking about Mary as Mother of Mercy. And I had been thinking about, oh, like she is a merciful mother. And I realized Mother of Mercy, like she quite literally is the Mother of Mercy, Jesus Himself, like the embodiment of the heart of God, the embodiment of mercy. And it was just such a reminder to me that everything in Mary reflects the goodness of God. Um, and I just want to give a little shout out to her, I guess, just because it's just so wonderful that we can turn to her and see God through her. And one of her titles is also Seat of Wisdom. And I remember asking you, Father Hecktor, after a mass a long time ago, months, maybe even a year ago, there was a reading from the Book of Wisdom. And I was asking you, oh, like thinking about Mary as the Seat of Wisdom, can we think about the the Scripture that is there and apply that to her? And recently there was a reading from Wisdom chapter seven, and I just I read this, and even though the it's talking about wisdom, I knew that it was true also of Mary. It said, "She is an aura of the might of God and a pure effusion of the glory of the Almighty, for she is refulgence of eternal light, the spotless mirror of the power of God, the image of his goodness. She produces friends of God and prophets." And when I read that, I just immediately felt like it was something that needed to be spoken on the podcast. So just wanting to also thank God for the gift of Mary and the gift of being able to learn about him more in the ways that she reflects his glory. Johnny, what are you thankful for?

John 4:49

In light of this being the the final episode of the of the season, wanna just say that I'm grateful for you, Father Hecktor, for taking the time to, you know, obviously be a part of this and come to all the recordings. And you know, I joked with Father George Staley, a dear friend of ours, that growing up I thought priests had just the like the sweetest gig in that they work one day a week and there's there that's it, there's nothing else. But there's so much more. Uh you guys barely have a free moment, and in that vein, you're you you're here on a Thursday, your day off. Um, so just I I'm very grateful because the fourth season wouldn't wouldn't have happened without you. So thank you very much.

Fr. Hecktor 5:36

Yeah, you're very welcome. I'm so glad to be here with you too.

Jessica 5:39

That was a great one, Johnny.

Fr. Hecktor 5:43

Another star.

Jessica 5:45

Wow. Okay. Father Hecktor, would you please proclaim our Scripture for this mystery?

Fr. Hecktor 5:54

Very glad to. This is a reading from the Holy Gospel according to Luke. Each year his parents went to Jerusalem for the feast of Passover, and when he was twelve years old, they went up according to festival custom. After they had completed its days, as they were returning, the boy Jesus remained behind in Jerusalem, but his parents did not know it. Thinking that he was in the caravan, they journeyed for a day and looked for him among their relatives and acquaintances. But not finding him, they returned to Jerusalem to look for him. After three days they found him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions. And all who heard him were astounded at his understanding and his answers. When his parents saw him, they were astonished, and his mother said to him, "Son, why have you done this to us? Your father and I have been looking for you with great anxiety." And he said to them, "Why were you looking for me? Did you not know that I must be in my father's house?" But they did not understand what he said to them. He went down with them and came to Nazareth, and was obedient to them. And his mother kept all these things in her heart, and Jesus advanced in wisdom and age and favor before God and man. The gospel of the Lord. Praise to you Lord Jesus Christ.

Jessica 7:16

We've paused, we've prayed. John, what's sticking out to you?

John 7:23

Well, I feel like as a parent, this one's easy to relate to, or it would be easy to imagine if you know you had lost track of your child or a loved one or someone you cared about and you couldn't find them and you were looking for them. And as we were reading, I thought that's what was going to be kind of my my takeaway, like something from that. But my mind kept going to his reply to his parents who were probably a little upset with him to say the least, and saying, you know, why would you do this? Like where, you know, essentially, where were you? Why didn't you come find us? Or, you know, you knew we were probably worried sick, and he was like, Well, why didn't you like you wouldn't know where I was? And that reply of, Why were you looking for me? Did you not know that I must be in my father's house? I like that line because I feel like oftentimes we hear or we're asked to kind of have the faith of a child. And I think that the lesson of like what kids can give to their parents, whether it's forgiveness, you know, how quickly do kids fight and cry that someone hit me or someone stole this, but then two seconds later they're they're playing again, or adults you know, can hold grudges or adults having anxiety about something and kids being like, It's okay. Like I prayed to God about it. And reading this, it's a reminder to pay attention to the lessons that kids can tell you about having that relationship with God.

Jessica 8:56

I think that's a testament to your heart too, John, because I feel like that takes a degree of humility, especially when the structure of a family is set up as like parents are in charge and we are the ones like infusing the lessons to be able to receive, to step back and receive a lesson from the child is just it's a beautiful example of humility too.

John 9:18

Father Hecktor, What stuck out to you?

Fr. Hecktor 9:22

Well, first I just I want to say every time I hear this, I always think that a lot of kids nowadays they they like take this Jesus' response out of context and like use it as a justification to talk back to their parents or something. And then they forget to read on about how he was obedient to them later on. B ut in preparing for these, I guess I'm in a storytelling mood, I just remember mom and dad bringing me and my brother and sister. I think this is even before my youngest brother was born, but they brought us to the arch. And so we live an hour west of the arch out in the country, and we don't go to the city very often. B ut they brought us to the arch and they brought us, I remember them bringing us to the museum under the arch, the Jefferson Expansion Museum or Westward Expansion, whatever it's called. And when we got in there, I was I was just overwhelmed by all the things. There's horses and stagecoaches over here, there's a pioneer setup over here, there's a little campsite, all these things, these amazing things. There was a buffalo, full-size buffalo in the corner. And so mom and dad went one way, and I'm pretty sure they probably told me to stay close by, but I was just so taken by all these things around me that I just took off in my own direction, just just in awe for all these cool things in that museum. And a little while later, I remember looking around and mom and dad running everywhere, and then I found dad, I saw him pushing his way through the crowd looking for me, and he grabbed me. He's like, Where were you? He was so upset at me, and I couldn't understand. Like, well, where else would I be? I'm just like wandering around here. This is awesome around here. It's so cool. Um, so where else would I be, except exploring this awesome place? Where else would we, where else would Jesus be? But in his Father's house. Well, Mary and Joseph, they, as it said, they didn't fully understand this yet or realize exactly what was going on, or maybe that wasn't the first thing that came to their mind. Because they, yeah, they had that terrible anxiety that only parents can feel when their children are lost or or are gone. You know, back then I didn't understand that, but growing up now, even without kids, my own kids, I can you know very well understand that now, or better understand it now, that they had some anxiety about that, some worry, some fear about their child missing. But upon thinking about it more, uh Mary and Joseph, yeah, maybe later on they were like, Yeah, but well, of course, what why were we so anxious? Why were we so worried? Again, at first they were worried, but later on they may have thought differently. Yeah, what a great answer that, of course, that the Son of God gave to them. Why wouldn't we look for him there? I guess for you know for me and for the rest of us, anytime my anxiety peaks, why don't I look for Jesus and where I know he is in church? Why don't I go there? Why do I you know do other things? Uh try to read or watch a movie or something like that instead, something that takes my mind or is kind of a distraction from my anxieties. Why don't I go to someone who can truly help me in that and and everlastingly help me in my worries or anxieties? I know where he is. Why don't I go to him more often? I know where he is, I know he must be there. He's always there. He said he would be there. So I want to go to him more often and find him more often there. And I hope others do that as well.

Jessica 12:27

I'm happy you're in a storytelling mood. And I like that story because I when I read this, when I read this passage, I often imagine myself almost all the time as in like the shoes of Mary and Joseph. But you, your story was the perspective of like being the one to be found. And so it made me think about this like from Jesus' perspective. And kind of what you were saying too, John, made me think about that too. And imagining like the Father, whether he like told Jesus directly or compelled Jesus in his heart to stay behind. And I wonder if there was a moment for Jesus about like, what well, what about my parents? And the Father being like, It's okay. You will be reunited, it's gonna be okay. And just uh thinking about Jesus, knowing that he would always be obedient to his parents and him also. I love this last line too, that he was he advanced in wisdom and age and favor. So like he is learning still. You know, he, of course, he knows everything, but he gave that up or submitted it to the ways of the world. So he does learn. It's a learning experience for him, too, in the trust of the Father. I never thought of that before, but I am thankful for the way for that story.

Fr. Hecktor 13:41

Yeah. Interesting thought that Jesus may have in his prayer to the father, may have considered Mary and Joseph and how that would affect them. I never thought about that before. Yeah. That's interesting.

Jessica 13:52

Uh-huh. To me, what stuck out was the same thing that you said, John, his mother saying to him, "Son, why have you done this to us? Your father and I have been looking for you with great anxiety." And Jesus said to them, "Why were you looking for me? Did you not know that I must be in my Father's house?" First of all, I smile when I read this passage because I know that a lot of people struggle at times with Mary not being relatable, because, you know, she is immaculately conceived without sin, the mother of God, all of that. But here she's directly like, "God, why have you done this to us? "And to me, that is that can be a very relatable position of just, yeah, really the uncertainty of why sometimes things unfold in our lives that we wouldn't have chosen for ourselves or that for the people that we love. I read this at some point, I don't remember where, but we tend to, this is definitely true of me, when we're apart from people that we love, we tend to be anxious that the worst case scenario is happening to them. I laugh or I smile at this. Like when John is gone, like if he's traveling for whatever reason, in my mind, it's always like, okay, he is in peril. So um I think about I think about that. But in particular, this story this summer, um, I was really surprised. I had forgotten on the feast when we celebrate Mary's Immaculate Heart that this is the passage that we read. And that was really surprising to me. It just really made me reflect that day of how this was almost a training for her heart in trust of the Lord and being separated from Jesus. I imagine, like at the foot of the cross, did she think about this moment? Like, okay, I've been here before where I've been separated from Jesus or anticipating the separation, and I found him again in my Father's house. Like, what consolation that could have been at the foot of the cross of like this Temple is really just an image of Heaven, of this Father's house, this promised salvation. Like we will be together again. So I just like to think of God allowing this situation to kind of be a training for Mary's heart for a future event where she would really need it. Um, and I also think in our family life, I was praying the rosary and found so much freedom in this passage because I've spoken before on this podcast about our daughter who has a chronic illness. And at times John and I both have had this same posture of like, "Why, why have you done this to us?" And I was thinking about that one time while praying the rosary, and I was just so consoled by Jesus' words. I heard it as like, "Why were you worried? Like, of course, of course, the Father took care of me." And it just really made me reflect on in my own life, when I have suffering, sometimes the tendency is to make God like an enemy, like you caused this or you allowed this, why would you do this? And it's easy to do that. And I think the the devil really tempts me with that. But thank goodness the Holy Spirit often calls me back to the reminder that especially like in the case of our daughter, like the Father loves our daughter more than I ever possibly could. And so to for her suffering, it is harder for him to witness her suffering than it is for me even to witness her suffering. And just that reminder of He is a God who suffers with us. I mean, that is the image of the cross. He suffers with us. And I know that the Father was sharing in the anxiety of Mary and Joseph, even knowing that Jesus would be found. He he shares in our suffering with us, and just this gentle reminder too of me when I so often want to control things or feel like I'm whatever, grasping for my own sense of security. Like it really is God who holds us and secures us. And it just it's such a consoling, a consoling thought to me.

Fr. Hecktor 18:21

Yeah, it will work out. It will be okay. That's what a great reminder it is.

Jessica 18:28

I feel like there's true freedom, true freedom in that, in that truth of just he is caring for for every situation in our life, whether it's affecting us directly or affecting those that we love. It reminds me of in the first six months of our marriage, we lived in Kansas City. We were attending a church called Visitation that had a beautiful adoration chapel, and we got to do a weekly holy hour, which was a really beautiful foundation for us together in the first part of our marriage. But I remember at one point I was feeling so much the weight of several different people who were suffering in my life. And I went to adoration. And as I was praying, I just had this image of Jesus standing there by the monstrance and all of those people that I was worried about coming down the center aisle and Jesus like putting his hands on them and healing them. And it was such a reminder of like, oh, I am carrying all this stress because I'm worried about how I need to fix the situation when really the Lord is handling it, and it's not this weight or this pressure on me. Sure, I might be called in some way to participate and whatever, but I can easily go into like, I need to save this situation or I need to save this person who is hurting. And it's yes, I can help, but it's the Lord who is really doing that. It's occurring to me too that there that these joyful mysteries, and especially with the name of our podcast, Ponder and Magnify, these joyful mysteries really do present Mary as like the pondering woman and just not allowing what has happened, not taking it at surface level, but allowing to really sit with it and let the Lord illuminate the events of her life. I just I pray for myself and for all of us that we can we can do that. John, Father Hecktor, anything left?

Fr. Hecktor 20:22

I just want to say I'm grateful that my dad didn't make me wait in the car the rest of that trip to the museum. He he actually let me come up into the arch with the rest of the family after I ran away from him. So that was nice.

Jessica 20:33

Oh, love it. Thank you. Thank you, Holy Spirit, for coming and inspiring our hearts, inspiring our conversation. Thank you, God, for all that you have given us that has led up to this moment. And we just really entrust to you all those who are listening here with great love for all of them, just and for a great desire for their salvation and for them to be in heaven one day. Thank you for the gift of your people and for those who are turning or making efforts to turn to you. And we pray for all those who are lost and not yet there, just with confidence that you too are caring for them and drawing them ever nearer constantly. So thank you for that. We promise to be praying for you, and we ask you to please be praying for us. May we all be together in heaven one day. Praise be to God.