The SECRET To Profitable Projects | Unfold EP. 37

Most filmmakers think a producer is “nice to have.” In reality, a great producer is the operating system of your production — protecting budgets, aligning clients, and freeing creatives to do their best work.

In this episode, we break down exactly what producers do, when to bring one in, and how a 10–15% producer fee can save you thousands by preventing scope creep, schedule slips, and costly reshoots. We map the producing stack (EP, Producer, PM, AD, PAs), share real before/after examples from our own jobs, and show how adding a producer lets you scale beyond one project at a time without burning out.

→ Work with us - https://www.cinematicportfoliomastery.com/?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=cpm&utm_content=podcast

→ Join the community - https://tenfoldinsider.com

→ Our One Click Keystone Lut - https://setmemory.store/collections/color/products/keystone-lut?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=sm&utm_content=podcast

→ FREE 21 Day Filmmaking Course: https://thespecworkplaybook.carrd.co/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvGUKb57q6Nvx37QHvQd5Qg

Follow Jason: https://www.instagram.com/iamjasondam/
 Follow Tenfold Production: https://www.instagram.com/tenfoldproduction

Transcript

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:17:10
Unknown
You know, I would say the best producers, to me at least, are the ones that don't say no. They say, let me figure that out. It's our job to think huge, think out of the box. But then it's the producer's job to, like, take those ideas, put them back in the box and be like, okay, here's you're saying.

00:00:17:12 - 00:00:34:11
Unknown
I can't wait till the very end and be like, oh, actually, can can we get a location there like the shoot's tomorrow? Yeah. You can't. Yeah, yeah. You're screwed. Right? It's like, look at people with this great idea, but we can't do it because we don't have anybody here. It was like, but that's the same person. It's it's kind of crazy to talk to someone like that.

00:00:34:16 - 00:00:48:07
Unknown
This person is not even part of the production side. Like, why are they making so much money? Well, the thing is, this person is doing way more than the production people.

00:00:48:09 - 00:01:06:04
Unknown
Most people think a producer just comes in through production and takes 10% of your whole budget, and then they run away with it. But realistically, a producer is the backbone and foundation of your entire project. Before we had a producer, we were struggling. We were dying. We were doing all the things ourselves, and we couldn't even do it more than one project at a time, which mean we couldn't scale.

00:01:06:06 - 00:01:28:12
Unknown
And then it was once we actually started figuring out how to producer work, how to function a producer into our systems, that we start to be able to scale, do more projects, make more money, and land bigger campaigns all together? And so today we're going to show you guys by the end of this video how to work with a producer, how to function them into your system, how to make more money with them, and ultimately how a producer actually makes your life so much better as a filmmaker.

00:01:28:15 - 00:01:46:09
Unknown
So let's dive right into it and welcome back to the Unfold podcast. So tell me what a producer actually does. So in our world, a producer is the bridge to everything that the person that takes your creative idea and brings it to life, the one that does your budgeting. They're the ones that kind of keep the flow in logistics actually going forward.

00:01:46:11 - 00:02:04:06
Unknown
In the beginning of our careers, we are all the producers. Yeah. As well as the director and editor and all these things. You're everything, you're everything. But in most people, in most cases, people don't even realize how badly they do the producing stuff because it's the last thing they want to do. Yeah. Like, they're just not naturally gifted at this stuff.

00:02:04:06 - 00:02:23:19
Unknown
And it takes a very specific type of person to be a good producer, because you have to be organized. You have to understand logistics well. You need to understand workflows and systems, and that's kind of their entire basis. Yeah. And so the last thing people want to do, but it's the first thing people have to do. Exactly. To get production going right is the most important part of the full production, to be honest with you.

00:02:23:21 - 00:02:46:08
Unknown
So tell me what it looked like before you guys. Like, when did you guys find out what a producer was? And what were you guys doing before then? Yeah, so we understood what a producer was last week and figured this out a long time ago. That the producing stuff really sucked. And so what we used to do for projects was because it was just the four of us me, Zach, Justin, Adrian.

00:02:46:10 - 00:03:04:22
Unknown
Yeah. We were just going through a project and immediately we just split all the tasks over. So it's like, okay, who's handling, the crew? He's acting on the crew. Adrian, do you want to handle locations? Justin, do you want to do, you know, a little bit more of the story you figure out? Like, though the casting and the crew and all these people around that.

00:03:05:00 - 00:03:22:02
Unknown
More on the casting side, right? Like talent, stuff like that. And then I would be like, okay, I gotta handle more of the, you know, maybe the smaller stuff. So, like the call sheets and, like, who's, you know, those the small logistics stuff, food and all that stuff as well. Yeah. These are for people that were also have a main role as well.

00:03:22:04 - 00:03:41:10
Unknown
So like maybe Adrian's directing the project Zach or shooting it just as being the ad. I'm being like, you know, and I could just be the guy for the color, the colorist, maybe. But then that was the thing, right? It's like in the beginning because you're you're told or through necessity, you have to do everything. You don't even understand that.

00:03:41:10 - 00:04:03:05
Unknown
That's a whole different role. Yeah. The person that's really combining and connecting all these different things. But yeah, I remember one project we, it was like one of the early ones with me. Justin, Adrian, we're doing a real estate project, and then I just hate logistics. Yeah, I hate that, like, because it's. You need to be so, process oriented and specific to small details.

00:04:03:11 - 00:04:21:07
Unknown
You'll be good on emails. You have to be able to call people. You have to be able to be on your feet 24 seven. You're almost like on call as a producer. And that whole process takes a lot out of you. And when you're trying to balance everything else, what happens is you just get completely fried. So remember one call we were jumping on is like hey guys, just jump on discord real quick.

00:04:21:09 - 00:04:38:12
Unknown
We're just going to sit here and work through the, the, the call sheet as well as the time of day. What the scheduling was gonna look like. I remember like, it was like 2:00 in the afternoon, so like, it's whatever, right? I was on this call, and I fell asleep on the call at 2:00. 2:00. And I'm like, I should be pretty spry and ready to go right now.

00:04:38:12 - 00:04:54:15
Unknown
But the staff to me is literally a snore fest, and I absolutely hate it. And when I have to, when I get tasked with certain things, literally my brain just flips off because I'm like, oh man, I, I don't want to do that. Yeah, right. And then so what happens is oftentimes you get you push that stuff to the very end.

00:04:54:17 - 00:05:14:09
Unknown
And the producing role in what it is you cannot do that because it actually is the flip side. Right. It's the number one thing that happens in each case where, you know, a director goes to a producer. We need this. I can't wait till the very end and be like, oh, actually, can can we get a location there like the shoot's tomorrow?

00:05:14:11 - 00:05:37:02
Unknown
Yeah. You can't like what location? Yeah. You're screwed. Right? And so that's why me learning this in the beginning faster was actually a better thing because I just I just wasn't right for that role. And I also realized too, at the same time how important it was at the same time. So when was the actual first time you worked with the producer, and how did that change with the production looked like for you guys.

00:05:37:04 - 00:06:00:00
Unknown
Yeah. So there's also different scales of producers as well. And so the first time we actually got a producer was probably our first 25 K dub, and the producer that we had on with, because we didn't understand how to work with the producer, we didn't know what the boundaries were like. We didn't know what they did, what we did, and then we still took on almost like half of the producing work ourselves, because it was like we felt uncomfortable.

00:06:00:00 - 00:06:14:16
Unknown
Which is what happens when you work with specialists in the beginning. Yeah, you feel uncomfortable, so you try to like, do half their job or whatever, and you're like, don't worry, I got you to make your life easier, but you're actually making it harder. Yeah. Because you don't have like, defined boundaries. You're doing it worse and you're doing it worse.

00:06:14:16 - 00:06:34:06
Unknown
You're more tired now, and then suddenly you're like, you still need them, so you don't know where, like, bring them in. And I remember that first project. It was just like, not a good time to I don't you're not saying anything about it with the producer really. But let's just say it didn't really work out that well and we didn't have a good relationship in that sense because, they were a little bit more newer junior.

00:06:34:06 - 00:06:47:18
Unknown
And then for us, we also didn't know how to, like, set boundaries or like, hey, we're going to get the gear or you're going to reach out to crew and talent or, you know, we didn't know who was doing what. Yeah. So it's almost like when we got to the shoot, they it was like double of everything, wasted money.

00:06:47:19 - 00:07:06:14
Unknown
Things were kind of everywhere. There was no, like, alignment or, you know, just just general alignment. And it turned into it being worse. It almost like, work backwards for us because we're like, wait, you're just wasting money that we could have had for our project. But that's not really how you should look at producers, like good producers.

00:07:06:14 - 00:07:24:19
Unknown
Really. Yeah. I think a producer is one of those roles that you definitely don't want to cheap out on, you know. Yeah. Because they, they can really make or break your production. So tell me what are the, the signs of a good producer. What makes what type of person makes a good producer. And how do you know a producer is good at their job?

00:07:24:21 - 00:07:42:03
Unknown
Very good questions. Because this is a big, huge question that everyone gets to a point in their careers and videography, and then moving into the more commercial production space where you absolutely need a producer and you don't even know where to start. Right. Because you hear out there in the world, it's like, oh, a producer is going to take 10% of your budget.

00:07:42:05 - 00:08:10:08
Unknown
But the thing is, they're not taking 10% of your budget. First of all, they need to make money. Much like anyone else, because they're putting so much time and energy. Yeah, but it's actually the most, highest intensive. I would say even at some point above the producer, in terms of the scale of labor that you need to put in and time and energy, because when I'm deep in a very big project, me and the producer are there the longest, like we're there late nights, all these things because everything that I need as a director reflects back on what a producer needs.

00:08:10:13 - 00:08:29:02
Unknown
And so when we got into this whole conversation of like, what a good producer is really, this is the backbone and the whole foundation of your production. The person that takes everything, all the needs from every department and they make it come to life. So everything that you have as a director in your head, these big ideas, these, these, you know, everything.

00:08:29:02 - 00:08:50:22
Unknown
Once everything's approved and you know what you need, they're taking all that information. They're figuring out who are the right departments that will make it happen. Which people in the art, art department team, the camera team, all these things, they're getting what the DP needs and the lighting and the cameras and all this stuff. They're making sure that the production is going well in terms of, you know, do we have the right talent, the locations or locking all that stuff in the permits?

00:08:51:00 - 00:09:08:13
Unknown
Like, you can see how intense of this stuff is and how important it is to have a singular person or multiple producers, working to move that stuff forward. Because the worst thing that happens oftentimes is, you know, when you're starting out, you don't have that much budget to do stuff. And yeah, you do stuff by yourself. You you're in a flow, right?

00:09:08:17 - 00:09:25:15
Unknown
You're thinking about the deep creative of like, I think the story is going to go really well and then boom, you get an email and you're like, location is not available. Your whole day is screwed. Your whole life. It's your whole life feels like the whole your whole world is coming down on you because you're like, oh my God, that's such a big thing.

00:09:25:16 - 00:09:43:14
Unknown
What do I do now? Right. And then when you're taking all this stuff by yourself, this is what actually burns people out that they don't even realize is, you know, they don't realize that production is like 90% dealing with it in the pre-production. Because you just gotta find the locations, you gotta find the talent. Negotiating numbers is probably the worst thing ever.

00:09:43:15 - 00:10:00:11
Unknown
Oh yeah. Again, me being someone that's not super organized in that sense. And someone that doesn't love numbers like those are the number two. Like those are number one. And two things that a producer does for you. A producer will make sure that they're on budget, that everything's going according to plan and on time, especially when you're dealing with larger clients.

00:10:00:12 - 00:10:13:20
Unknown
And then at the same time, a producer is the one that's like balancing a director out to be like, that's a little intense. I can't I can't even make that happen. If I'm like, as a director, I want to take the train. I want a Ukraine arm from a car. I don't think the shadows even make sense for that.

00:10:13:21 - 00:10:36:05
Unknown
I just want it there. Like, no, they're the ones that are also babysitting in a world. Everyone's expectations. Yeah, especially the client as well as the internal team. The main reason why we want to break down the six figure project is to tell you why pre-production is so important, and this is the one thing that has changed my career as a cinema tography, and mainly us as a production company.

00:10:36:05 - 00:10:56:16
Unknown
The pre-production playbook is my entire process as a cinematographer, from director alignment all the way the day before your shoot and every step in between. I don't really hide anything. This is everything that I do on the projects that I do today, now for tenfold, as well as anybody else. So I would love to invite you guys to check out in the link in the description below.

00:10:56:22 - 00:11:20:16
Unknown
Get the pre-production playbook today. Yeah, they're the ones that are kind of like tethered to reality. Yeah. Because they're they know what the budget is. They know what the client ask is. Yeah. And obviously as the creatives and you know, the director, DP, whatever we are, it's our job to think huge, think out of the box. But then it's the producer's job to be like, take those ideas, put them back in the box and be like, okay, here's what I think.

00:11:20:16 - 00:11:39:01
Unknown
There's actually a good thing that happened to us a while ago. We started talking to more producers. Even in the calls themselves with clients, we oh, we had a bad habit of almost starting to talk a little bit more logistics heavy. And so we were going through these calls, me being a director, I was like, okay.

00:11:39:01 - 00:11:55:16
Unknown
But like, how much would that cost? Maybe. And then I would have the producer on the I'd be like, don't talk about numbers, don't talk about the money. Because like, that's not what people want to hear. I just had this thing because I was running a production company as a director as well, and as a pseudo producer.

00:11:55:16 - 00:12:13:17
Unknown
I was like always thinking about the money. Yeah. It was literally part of like the whole business for us. And so I couldn't separate the two, I couldn't separate what the production was. And then and like how big the scale of the work is with the money. So for a long time I had a big, problem, almost like pre scaling my projects down.

00:12:13:19 - 00:12:33:09
Unknown
Right. I'd be like that's not going to work anyways. It's too, it's too big. We can't afford it. And so I feel like our ideas got stunted because we couldn't. Well to me anyways like and the team were like we can't afford that so let's not even try something like that. Yeah. And it's a bad place to work into because as a director, you should be thinking about your your idea as like number one top case scenario.

00:12:33:09 - 00:12:56:06
Unknown
This is what I want. Perfect world. Not like, hey, based on what we have, I'm only going to do 50% of this. Yeah, like, you kind of have to find this perfect blend of how you operate in the future. But that was like for two years or like 2 or 3 years in the beginning, every meeting we would have, it would start from a basis of, like, I would always almost come in as a producer first and everything was logistics first.

00:12:56:08 - 00:13:11:14
Unknown
And again, that also was great because the clients wanting to talk about creative. Yeah. And like how far we can do and sell them on the emotions and the ideas and all this like package of like what we, what we can create. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, we can't do that. I'm like, oh man, that's not is this also not a good luck?

00:13:11:15 - 00:13:28:14
Unknown
Yeah. And so this is the importance of why these need to be separate people. Right. You can't be a director and producer because you just start to make a lot of like adjustments beforehand. And yeah, it just looks bad. It's like it's almost like bipolar. Yeah. You're it's it's two completely different parts of your brain. Yeah. Fighting at the same time.

00:13:28:16 - 00:13:41:15
Unknown
Like, look at people with this great idea. But we can't do it because we know everybody is like, but that's the same person. It it's kind of crazy to talk to someone like that. Yeah. You're like, where are we going then? Yeah. It's like, yeah, it did kill us for a while to, to not have a separate producer.

00:13:41:17 - 00:14:02:17
Unknown
Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. So something that you mentioned earlier, you said like, producers aren't just taking like 10%. Is that is that like a standard thing? Where does that number come from? Tell me more about, like this, this money side of a producer. Yeah. Like much like any rates in the system, there's like standardized rates, you know, typically it's like ten, 15% of the project budget.

00:14:02:19 - 00:14:20:10
Unknown
Yeah. We'll go to a producer much like a gaffer or DPI has like standardized rate and DP. Director as well. A producer takes a certain percentage because of the scale of the project. And that's just kind of how we've grown up into the system is 10%. Or oftentimes you can just do a fixed rate potentially as well.

00:14:20:11 - 00:14:40:20
Unknown
But a lot of people get scared by these numbers because they think this person is not even part of the production side. Like, why are they making so much money. Well, the thing is this person is doing way more than the production people, right. These production people get paid because a good producer exists. Yeah. And this good producer this is the mind set flip.

00:14:40:20 - 00:14:59:23
Unknown
I want everyone to kind of like intake is what we learn very quickly. Do a good producer that takes 10% of your budget can save you way more money down the line. Then you can do it yourself. Right. Because a lot of people are like, I'm just gonna produce it myself. Right. Take the 10% from I think, oh, let's take that 10% for our business, for ourselves.

00:14:59:23 - 00:15:16:20
Unknown
No problem. Why would I need a producer. What happens is they get burnt out because they have another role already. Yep. They can't handle it because then they're also having to talk to a client now, dealing with, like, all the, you know, the problems of every single person in production, like, every key lead goes to the producer to figure something out.

00:15:16:23 - 00:15:35:03
Unknown
Yeah. It's like, I want this, I need this, I need this. So now you're just in the middle of a million emails, right? And then you try to take that on yourself, and then you don't have the relationships or the pull that a good producer has to pull because, good producer has everything, right? Like they are literally the glue, not just inside of an internal production, but outside world as well.

00:15:35:05 - 00:16:00:05
Unknown
They're constantly meeting like production houses, rental houses, all these things that like, hey, this is, makeup artist for this level, for this level, on this level. Like, if they have all these connections they've built up over different productions and so that you're leveraging other people's already pre-made relationships, things that you don't have already. Yeah. I might have to pay a makeup artist if, say, is like a small spec project or like a lower paid favorite project in a way.

00:16:00:07 - 00:16:21:07
Unknown
It's like if I pay a DP their full, full, full rate for this project, that's the entire budget, right? I'm bankrupt. You're bankrupt. This project does not exist. You have one person, but if you or you find a producer that has these relationships, can pull some strings. And think of it more like a student film project.

00:16:21:07 - 00:16:41:07
Unknown
But everyone's still getting some money and all that stuff, and it's like it's balanced, right? In the olden days, you know, olden days, like, 1939. Yeah. But yeah, but like when we were doing it before, I would have to like, pay people their full, full rates because I was just nervous. Yeah, I was legit. Like, I'm a big people pleaser in that sense.

00:16:41:07 - 00:16:58:23
Unknown
And I'm like, I should never be put around paying people money and stuff like that because I was overpaying everyone just because I felt bad. But then that's not how it production survives. And that's why we had zero margins before. Yeah. And so we were paying our gaffer or like our grip more than I was going to make at the end of it.

00:16:59:05 - 00:17:18:10
Unknown
And then the production would make and the business would make no money. And then you're like, cool. I feel good in the moment because all of our people are getting paid, but then the business is dying. I can't do more productions now. And so is that really a sustainable model at all? Now you find the person that you pay them 10%, they're going to save you 50% across the board.

00:17:18:11 - 00:17:39:01
Unknown
And suddenly as a business, they know what their margins are for the production. You get a full like readout of like how everything is spent and the actuals and the budgeting and everything afterwards. And then you just clean your heads and you're like, we're done. The production is over. Yeah, but even before we would finish a production and it would take us like an extra month and a half to be like, okay, well, where did this dollar go?

00:17:39:04 - 00:17:56:22
Unknown
Where did this money go? How come the money the money doesn't match up. That's just all continued waste of time in your process. You know you can't do more work. You're stuck behind certain things like these are the cogs that burn people out because they're doing everything themselves. But there's also the value of what a good producer does.

00:17:56:22 - 00:18:22:19
Unknown
Yeah that's a great point you made even before when you said that you're pretty much leveraging a producer's connections because the producer is the most well connected person on set. Right? That's their whole job. And when you when you look at it, there's like tears of people that you can get. There's like the lower budget, I don't know, like makeup artist, higher budget makeup artist, like the one who's like, been on every set in the city versus like, you know, the up and comer.

00:18:22:19 - 00:18:40:15
Unknown
So you get different budget ranges. But that producer is going to know, like every single one of those people. But even on like the producing side, like the producing side has like a hierarchy. Right. Because as the production scale up and get bigger, one person can't handle like all of those things on their own because it starts to stack up very, very quickly on their end.

00:18:40:16 - 00:18:59:03
Unknown
Yeah. So tell me what the producing hierarchy looks like. Yeah. So similar to how in the past, if you're a DP or DP, you're a gaffer, your grip, you kind of touch every part of this. Yeah. It's the same thing as a producer do. Eventually you have to also break that stuff out. And so it's almost like micro arms of everything.

00:18:59:03 - 00:19:14:03
Unknown
So as a producer, you have someone like a PM who manages more of the production management side of things. Yeah. And so when you're actually on set, you're dealing with more of the like, you know, where's everything going? How is everything flowing in terms of, like the, the space itself, like where is the food? All that kind of managing that type of stuff.

00:19:14:04 - 00:19:31:02
Unknown
You have people like the, you know, production assistant or CPAs or stuff like that that are dealing with more of the handling of like maybe driving a truck and like grabbing all the key stuff before the set even happens. Yeah. So they're a little bit more on the pre side, whereas the production manager might be a little bit more on the actual side of the business.

00:19:31:04 - 00:19:54:17
Unknown
Hey, have you ever felt stuck as a videographer and want to push past the 2500 to $5000 projects and really start creating work that feels a lot more intentional? I feel like when we did this with our business constantly with making spec work, and this is one of the most important things that we did that propelled ourselves as a production company and that's why we created Cinematic Portfolio Mastery.

00:19:54:19 - 00:20:14:11
Unknown
This is a cohort style course where we take you through the entire process on how to make a spec commercial for a whole six weeks. At the end of this six weeks, you'll have a spec project for yourself that you can start marketing and push yourself where exactly you want to go in your filmmaking career. Check out the link in the description below to join the waitlist.

00:20:14:11 - 00:20:33:20
Unknown
Now. In the past, this is also a big one that maybe is like an adjacent one. It's like your first ad, right? And so that's the person that's actually like guiding your set and kind of making sure everything is running smoothly on time. As a producer in the back in the day, I'm sure it's a combination. You're doing a little bit of everything, making sure that the director's happy.

00:20:33:20 - 00:20:50:14
Unknown
Everything is flowing correctly. But as you kind of scale up, you kind of make, you just can't do too much. And so what happens with a producer is you end up staying at a higher level, right? Dealing with much more of the client side of things, making sure there's like, you know, typically a client has a producer and then a production company as a producer as well.

00:20:50:16 - 00:21:11:12
Unknown
And then our producer is dealing with everything that we need. So, you know, our producer will talk to us as a directing team and then be like, what do you need? What's what's actually showing up here? And then they're going to go to all the team leads, such as, like the, art director oppression assisted our production, designer as well as, like the DP might ask Zach, like, okay, cool.

00:21:11:12 - 00:21:28:16
Unknown
Based on this conversation we've had, what camera gear do you need? What crew do you need that's going to work for? This is like a two and two team. Like two grip to gaffer, team. Or is it like, large in that? How many do we think we're going to need? But the thing is, like, I'm not the one sitting there being like, I need these specific people.

00:21:28:17 - 00:21:46:03
Unknown
Maybe if I really enjoy, like, we will try to be on the same people all the time, but I'm not going to spend all that time finding these people myself. And so it's really up to them for them to be like, cool, I got you. I have all these people. I'm just going to send a quick call out for everyone and then lock those people in for a month and see if holds.

00:21:46:05 - 00:22:08:19
Unknown
They're also going to be the people that going out. And, you know, typically on a smaller scale, they handle locations and casting. But the one scale up from that, you have casting managers, location managers, the people that actually go out there, find the locations they're dealing with, all the negotiating going back and forth, and then as well as like the casting side, you have a casting manager or something like that, you know, and then they're dealing with all the casting.

00:22:08:21 - 00:22:30:18
Unknown
And then on set you have like the second ad, who's dealing with how the cast actually like where they're, they're held and makeup and hair and all that stuff, like, that's kind of like the separate roles. But yeah, sometimes in the earlier stages, if you're in like, this kind of like hour stage, a producer does a lot because they're pretty much my right hand throughout the entire process.

00:22:30:20 - 00:22:49:08
Unknown
And then on set, it becomes me, the DP, pretty much side by side. And then the director is myself. And then you have the producer who is typically floating in between, like us. And then the client side. And then you would have a separated person, the EP, who is like more of the client specific side. They're just client management.

00:22:49:08 - 00:23:04:17
Unknown
They don't even care too much about the production. They just wanna make sure clients happy with what we're getting. And that's like the the four there. But then we also have the first ad as well, and they're like in a way running the production while I'm watching the monitor. And again, this is if you have a full crew.

00:23:04:19 - 00:23:21:10
Unknown
Right. But in the early stages say it's under ten K or whatever, a producer will just be everything for you. Yeah. Right. And like, he still maintains the balance here. You know, something's here and there, but for the most part, you want to find a junior producer or a producer that is someone that is logistics heavy and oriented.

00:23:21:10 - 00:23:40:10
Unknown
They're focused on, you know, making sure things are constantly moving forward. They also have a very clean spreadsheet of an understanding of, like every department. How is everything going right? Like, do you are you guys stuck on anything or are you guys stuck on anything? And they're constantly updating you throughout the process of how everything's feeling. Cool.

00:23:40:10 - 00:24:05:07
Unknown
We're just missing these two things here. Otherwise we're good, and they're constantly just reassuring you that you're okay, right? Because half the time in production, you're just freaking out, right? It's like, you know, it's not even a big freak out. It's just like there's always a fire you're trying to put out. And so you're always bouncing back and forth and they're like, you're again, obviously the backbone or the foundation of your production because you're they're there to reassure you that we're okay.

00:24:05:09 - 00:24:22:01
Unknown
You know what I mean? And then you can imagine if you just didn't have this person and you're doing this stuff all by yourself, who are you asking to reassure yourself? Yeah, that everything is fine. You can ask the client. It's like your own brain, your own brain, because you gotta be like, key client. How's everything going? It's like, I don't know, how's everything going for you?

00:24:22:02 - 00:24:40:01
Unknown
Like, terrible. You're supposed to tell me you're the one writing production, right? So, that's kind of the basis and foundation of, like, what a producer is. Yeah. For for us. And these different scales at least. So how do you guys work with the producer nowadays, then? At a bigger scale? Yeah. So let's just break down exactly our process with producers.

00:24:40:03 - 00:24:57:08
Unknown
Our producer Chad, he's already in kind of in-house, so he's always with us or around us, and he pretty much handles all of our productions. And then we have also, you know, producers for, like, different scales and types of projects stuff. But Chad is kind of our core producer right now. So, whenever a project comes in, he almost gets first sight of everything.

00:24:57:14 - 00:25:17:12
Unknown
So everything comes in through our executive producer, Adrian. He's looking over the project, seeing what it is, seeing if it's viable, whatever it is, and if it requires a quote, then we bring in Chad, and we always bring in Chad. Quote. Because we are not the best at quoting him, because it's very subjective in the sense of every project is going to be different.

00:25:17:16 - 00:25:41:14
Unknown
Yeah, right. And then based on the total budget or what we're working within, everything needs to shift to align with that. Yeah. So you know, again, we always talk about the stuff in our client brief checklist, the one that's free PDF on our website. It's just breaking down exactly the scope of the project. So like we look at like delivery dates, deliverables, you know, usage rates, all these things Chad already has in his mind, all these numbers sorted out.

00:25:41:16 - 00:26:00:20
Unknown
So it's like, okay, say the budget's 25 K. He's coming in. He's like, okay, it's a one day shoot. It's 25 K, it's for this global campaign, no photos. But then there's like we need, you know, broadcast usage rates because it's going on TV or whatever. So he takes all this information to account much like we do.

00:26:01:01 - 00:26:17:09
Unknown
And he sits there and he's like, okay, great. Based on what the scale and the references that they sent us, like, this is what it's gonna feel and look like. So we don't need that many crew here. It could be all shot in the studio. So. Great. Now I got a, a company location's permits for that. Potentially, how many?

00:26:17:09 - 00:26:34:08
Unknown
How many times do we need? We need two talent. We need full usage rates. He's calculating all this stuff kind of live and making adjustments for this. And his goal is to talk to us and figure out what margins are we trying to build into this? Yeah. So we can continue to run the business. And then, how simple and easy do we want to pull this?

00:26:34:08 - 00:26:52:02
Unknown
So even in our other podcast we talked about, our intake system. So deciding on whether it's like a money job or if it's a portfolio job, if it becomes much more of a portfolio leaning project, then we'll spend more money in ensuring the right places are put into the there's money put into the right place. It's pretty much.

00:26:52:04 - 00:27:12:01
Unknown
Yeah. And so like, hey, I think this one is like, let's spend a little bit more money on the creative and ensuring it looks great. So he might shift more money, ahead of time into more, you know, production design and then also, less on gear, maybe. But like, find other ways to finesse things, like maybe we need more crew to make it, a little bit better of a set, for example.

00:27:12:03 - 00:27:31:12
Unknown
Yeah. If it's a money job, for example, then he'll just shift it all into, like, we'll just rate it out, the normal way. Production, rental equipment, all these things. But then realistically, we're just taking it all in-house in terms of, you know, our rates and stuff like that. And then maximizing, like, using our own stuff so we can, we can save our money, all these little things.

00:27:31:12 - 00:27:56:15
Unknown
So again, he becomes our backbone right from the beginning. So he knows our intentions. What we're trying to get out of this quote as well as our intentions for, just in general, how we can maximize this production to make it feel comfortable for both the client and for ourselves. And do you think it's it's almost crucial for every scale of production to have a producer even at, like, the smallest, smallest scope?

00:27:56:17 - 00:28:19:14
Unknown
Yeah, there's there's some projects where you've done 100,000 times where you don't need a producer. So there's stuff that we do for some of our, like, recap work that's a little bit more corporate or whatever, or, you know, it's like commercial recaps. We've done them like every year multiple times. Yeah. And so at that point we just call on the same people and then we know the boundaries in the scales.

00:28:19:16 - 00:28:39:03
Unknown
So this is a thing that you have to learn through experience a bit is there's a certain point where you need a producer on any job, right. You need to always ask this question is like, do we need a producer for this question? And it's not necessarily because we need to save the money in it. Sometimes there is no budget, and it also doesn't require a producer because it's so simple.

00:28:39:05 - 00:29:01:23
Unknown
Right? It's like, I know it's just going to be internal team me, Zach and Adrian or something like that. And then we can use our own cameras. We just show up. We know exactly what to shoot. There's no really need for a producer there. Yeah. If the scale starts to increase where it's like, okay, cool, like there's going to be a client there, there's certain expectations of how they're being treated and their experience.

00:29:02:01 - 00:29:32:05
Unknown
Usually that's like a very quick indicator of, like, you need a producer when there's more expectations on the production itself and how the experience is valid. Because sometimes if it's just a quick small spec project, for example, spec writers, we still like to bring on producers. Same thing because there's still so many moving parts. But if it's like a talking head corporate video and you're like, okay, it's all in studio, our studio and we have it all here, it's like, you got to just make that kind of gauged, insight information of like, I don't really need this, right?

00:29:32:05 - 00:29:53:04
Unknown
It's like, I don't need to add more complexities. They could potentially work on another project at the same time. So let's not bog them down for something that we can just do on our own super easily. Yeah, yeah. And let's just say hypothetically, if you were, if you were in the space and starting out and you wanted to make more connections with more producers.

00:29:53:04 - 00:30:18:15
Unknown
Yeah. How would you go about that? Yeah. I find it funny that this is, a whole industry based on relationships. But then I don't think enough people are constantly adding new people or finding local people to build into a Rolodex. Right. So, you know, producer's job is to meet everyone, and they either get the job or director brings them on to producer project, for example.

00:30:18:17 - 00:30:36:16
Unknown
And so really, it's it's just reaching out and finding everyone at different scales as well. So, you know, like I'm saying earlier, we have producers at different scale levels, some that are very efficient and very good at like 200 plus K, but they're not that great at anything under that because they're they're used to a certain standard of like, oh, we have budget.

00:30:36:16 - 00:30:54:12
Unknown
I know how to maximize a 200 K budget. Yeah. But then that's because they've been in that space and they were kind of, built in that space. For example. Then you have people like Chad who works into our system a little bit more where we were coming up. And so you become much more scrappy and you know, how to maximize a smaller budget.

00:30:54:14 - 00:31:12:14
Unknown
And so, like, you have different kind of like systems there. And so when we look at, you know, you beginning out right now starting to find a junior producer or a producer for yourself, sometimes the easiest place is starting with your friends. Right? In the beginning, I, as a solo person, was doing it all, and I struggled with it.

00:31:12:16 - 00:31:32:12
Unknown
And then once I brought in the four of us. Right. It's like Justin, Adrian, Zach. Then we grouped it up as like, a team. Then it felt like a little bit less of a burden to make sure everything was going on, because then you just take on a small sliver of the producing side of things. Yeah, the next step from that is, you know, maybe you're now like 5 to 15 K range.

00:31:32:14 - 00:31:56:23
Unknown
And now it's good to have a standalone producer, someone that is just organized and really comfortable with that stuff. And as simple as it is, build this relationship through adding people on IG and adding people on LinkedIn, for example, and whatever is the most comfortable for you to actually just reach out and talk to people. Because much like anything else, a producer is not like this golden goose that's sitting on this pedestal somewhere, like in a castle far, far away that you just are so scared of.

00:31:57:02 - 00:32:26:22
Unknown
Yeah, there are regular person like me and you that is just much more comfortable dealing with logistics and small, finer details. That's really what that is. So I just reach out to people and message them. And if I've been building my network naturally over time and putting out work and all these things, my whole thing is just putting it out in my idea, like IG stories and just doing an IG call out, like looking for, you know, junior producers for future projects or future commercial projects, paid or unpaid type of thing.

00:32:27:00 - 00:32:46:11
Unknown
And then the thing is, it's not as simple as just doing that. You have to also, have a good intake system because you're going to get a lot of messages from people and you need to know how to categorize them properly. Do you have a portfolio? What? The price ranges. You know, it's interesting talking to them as well.

00:32:46:13 - 00:33:06:01
Unknown
Every good producer you ever work with, a person you work with? The best people are the people you've shaken hands with. And grab a coffee, grab the lunch, whatever it is. Because I'd much rather trust someone that I've met in person before than someone that I have only talked to through DMs because I don't know who you really are yet.

00:33:06:03 - 00:33:32:22
Unknown
And also, even for real projects, I still don't know who you really are yet. So which is why we try to test people through projects, for example. But like, that's the simplest way. Just put an IG call out someone's friend of a friend of a friend is going to somehow get sent that. And then they messaged you, tell you, hey, I'm a commercial, you know, producer, documentary producer, whatever it is, you need to just have a good place to put them in an Excel sheet or whatever it is, so you can come back and find them in the future when you need them.

00:33:33:00 - 00:33:49:13
Unknown
But even in the meantime, the best thing you can do, from that point on, once you have that initial contact, is just go and have a coffee with people, see who they are, what type of projects they do, what type of, what type of like budget scales do they work with? What is their workflow? That's going to be a huge one.

00:33:49:15 - 00:34:12:21
Unknown
It's like, do I have to follow their workflow or are they going to work with the workflow that I already have? Because we have systems and our systems are very different. And we've built them over time with our producer. But do we have to, like, completely scrap that and go with someone else's? Right. And so all that stuff has to take into account, especially because of where you are and sometimes the best people, again, when you're first starting out, it's just your friend.

00:34:13:01 - 00:34:32:13
Unknown
Yeah, right. The friend that's like, I don't really care too much about production, but, like, I just care about it coming to life in whatever capacity. So I'm happy to, like, make the calls, like set up appointments, find locations, all those little things. And then you can always build people up, right? It's always about the work ethic and the relationship and the energy.

00:34:32:13 - 00:34:59:07
Unknown
First skill sets you can more or less builds. But there are the skill. Like a certain point, you can't teach someone more than you already know. Yeah, right. So it's like if we were early stages trying to teach a new producer, it's going to get kept pretty quickly. So it's good to also have people that have worked on other productions, and use that and bring they get to bring their kind of like sensibilities and things they've learned into our productions, which makes it even better and faster.

00:34:59:09 - 00:35:19:12
Unknown
Those people are definitely the gems of the world. They are the gems. It's sort of hard to find the logistics people in the creative world. Yeah, because it's just burns you out. It's all like that's why we pay them more hopefully. Right. Because they take on all the brute force pain of like every department. They also have contact for the, the cast and crew.

00:35:19:12 - 00:35:33:17
Unknown
They have to be organized. Everything that people need, they're just like the first person that gets screamed at or called on, and then they just take it and they have to be there from beginning to end. Yeah, a DP might only be there in the middle, the gaffer might be there only be it for a day. Directors more or less the whole thing.

00:35:33:17 - 00:35:53:18
Unknown
But a producer more or less like has to make sure everything is accounted for money wise, all the way to the end. Signed off. They're done. Yeah. And imagine doing two, 3 or 4 projects at the same time. Yeah, that's crazy balance. I definitely see some people who are like, not in the the creative world, but I'm like, you would be a great producer.

00:35:53:20 - 00:36:08:21
Unknown
Yeah. I'd like tried so many times like poach my friends. I like friends who like working like marketing or something like that. Yeah, I'm like, how would you like to make a commercial with me? And then they'd be like, no. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like I said in the beginning, it takes a very special person to become a producer.

00:36:08:21 - 00:36:31:22
Unknown
Yes, because you just need to be calm, cool and collected. And, you know, I would say the best producers, to me at least, are the ones that don't say no. They say, let me figure that out. Yeah, right. Because as a director or DP, when you kind of want something or you're like, you've already sold something or there's a vision there and like, hey, I would really like this to happen.

00:36:32:00 - 00:36:54:12
Unknown
And for people to say, no, I just don't like that personally, because, like, I think there's a way we can always figure something out. It might not be the most optimum way, or it might not be like, I'm not trying to say we're endangering people or we're not doing illegal stuff is more so, like, okay, maybe that might be a little bit too expensive right now, but like, let me find you another solution to get the exact same shot.

00:36:54:12 - 00:37:19:12
Unknown
And then we'll, we'll find it on the cheaper URL or whatever. Like I love that because that means we have a solution. We're solution oriented, much like our business and everything we do. We try not to offer a no because a no means like I can't figure this out. Yeah. So I'm just going to tell you the easy answer would be like, no, unless it's like, you know, again, I'm not asking for a technical grade that's like 40 K, or if I'm buying a technical training, I'm like, really?

00:37:19:12 - 00:37:34:05
Unknown
Why? That makes no sense. Yeah, I'm not saying that. Just like the smaller stuff of like, hey, this you know, our goals here and intentions here, can you help me out, figure some stuff out together. And then they just become again to me, anything on the lead up of a production that they are my right hand person, right.

00:37:34:05 - 00:37:50:16
Unknown
Like they're always there prepping all the casts for me to look at so I don't have to individually sit there and be like, why am I even looking at these people? They don't even fit the standard. Like they're like, they're almost like, the buffer in between everything. So I don't have to deal with the junk. It's like, hey, this is the house.

00:37:50:16 - 00:38:07:04
Unknown
I'm kind of looking for and the feeling I'm looking for, they can actually do it themselves, or they can bring on a location manager. Doesn't matter their choice. And then it's like they're already prescreening all the spaces to make sense based on the parameters that I gave them. Yeah. So like, I need five rooms and he's a washroom, blah, blah, blah.

00:38:07:06 - 00:38:25:12
Unknown
Cool. I got you next day they come back, they're like, here's all the houses in our vicinity that's in the budget, that has the five rooms, that has the kitchen and the whatever fits the spot perfectly. You choose which one you like. Do you know how much time that is saved, and how much mental capacity that saved?

00:38:25:13 - 00:38:43:00
Unknown
Yeah. For me to go and do something else. And I think we can get close to the end here. Just kind of like the why the producers. The most important thing as you scale into a business and you scale productions, if you're producing your own work and you're directing your work through all that stuff, you can only do one project at a time.

00:38:43:00 - 00:39:04:19
Unknown
Yeah, you can only do one good project at a time. And then when you have a producer that knows how to juggle, that knows how to keep things organized, has systems for everything, emails go blasted the second something gets awarded. So everything's already locked in all the crew and cast locked in immediately. All these like locations, all the stressors, like 80% of it get finished in like the first week almost once.

00:39:04:19 - 00:39:22:18
Unknown
Things are like really flowing well, which means what's the what's the creative as sorted out? As a director, I can just move on to another project potentially too. Yeah. And so that's how you see people working in tandem and moving fast and doing multiple projects at the same time. It's because as a director, they're not getting bogged down by like, all the nitty gritty logistics stuff.

00:39:22:18 - 00:39:45:12
Unknown
That doesn't really matter. It's like, I don't really need to know how much the rental cost is. Why would I need to know that? In the beginning, I needed to know everything? Because that was the mix of everything as well as the business owner. But as long as I have had like a top level conversation or agent's had top level conversation with the producer here, he knows the goals of the entire production.

00:39:45:12 - 00:40:02:08
Unknown
As long as we're keeping within the margins range and we're trying to stay in this like efficiency based on like portfolio or money job, it's all kind of laid out there. It's perfect. And we can just like move on and do other things with our lives. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Yeah. Okay. So the goats okay.

00:40:02:09 - 00:40:21:18
Unknown
Soft producer. Yeah. Cool. Sweet. Yeah. So that's a producing one on one. And why you have to respect the producer. Because a good producer can change your whole career. And if I was going to restart in my career, I would probably just start with finding sure these guys again. But also the first one is just finding a producer.

00:40:21:18 - 00:40:38:20
Unknown
Yeah, they're going to really set you up for success. They're going to be able to let you do multiple projects at a time. All the things that you most likely hate, right, is going to be covered from them. And suddenly you're like, if you like, you could take on the world again. So if you don't know any producers right now, make sure you reach out to producers.

00:40:38:22 - 00:41:00:12
Unknown
If you guys are looking to, you know, just like elevate your work to, you know, make sure that you guys can do more in the future. You know, don't put it all on your shoulders because you just can get burnt out. And if you guys are interested in learning more of the frameworks that we use in our systems, how we make more money, check out the link in the description below for our 21 day free email course where we show you our systems, our frameworks.

00:41:00:12 - 00:41:16:23
Unknown
How do we make more money? How we position ourselves better as filmmakers and production companies? These are the exact lessons. These are the exact lessons that we've learned over the years, that have gotten us to where we are today. And it continues to be the same systems we use for everything. So if you guys are interested in that, check it out.

00:41:16:23 - 00:41:23:17
Unknown
It's free. It's in the link in the description below. And that's producing. We'll see you in the next one. Peace.