Chapter 416 Podcast

Episode 2: Orks Ain't Dead

• Alan Bajramovic • Season 1 • Episode 2

Share episode

Send us a text

In this episode of Chapter 416 Podcast, Brad and Alan dive headfirst into the biggest, meanest, and greenest saga in Warhammer 40K – Orks and The Beast Arises! 💥💚

We break down what makes Orks the most fun and chaotic faction in the game, from their hilarious lore and ridiculous dakka to their surprisingly deep tactical gameplay (yes, Orks can be competitive, fight me!). Then, we jump into the some amazing stories of the Demon Killa! 

Intro:

Mhm.

Alan:

Welcome to the chapter 416 podcast where we start with strategy and taper off into storytelling.

Brad:

Devolve.

Alan:

That is Brad Chester

Brad:

This guy.

Alan:

again. And we are here today to break down the game of Warhammer 40k. And tell you some fantastic tales, potentially into some, useful strategy. That's our goal for today. And we're going to start off with strategy. I'd like to talk about an army, we both want to talk about orcs.

Brad:

Walk!

Alan:

it's the army I've played the most in my previous life. When I was actually a 40 K player. Now I am a retired stay at home, man, and no longer play the game, but I live vicariously through the man, the myth, the legend, the Chester help Brad. Brad, is it true? The internet says orcs are no longer. A minus codex. They had a good run in the 10th edition. And now, now from what I've heard they're just obsolete,

Brad:

Now, there's, there's still very good, there's a power level, there's a lot going on right now. The problem is, is that orcs went from an army that was just kind of an aggression army, to an army that has a lot of, Tactical, their new Grotmas, detachment, the tactics, basically playing orcs gives you good options, but they have a low floor, things can fall off, the wheels can fall off the wagon really quickly, but I think it's important when you look at a list of any list, but orcs, And you have to give yourself a game plan. What are the things that I need to play the game? What do I need to score? What do I need to move block? What do I need for damage? And they've got some great new units.

Alan:

You I I'm, I'm no stranger to army list design or deployment or tactics or screening or understanding how to achieve my objective and getting more points than you in any tournament you've ever been to. So I know how to do that. What I don't know, cause I am a garage 40 K player these days. And that's like maybe twice a year. Can you explain the detachment What makes the detachment so good?

Brad:

I love it because tactics gives you options. You can choose four things, one is plus one strength. The biggest is plus one to hit for orcs. So you're taking these really good weapons and putting them in the hands of people now hitting on fours. they basically gave me bad ruck back, and gave you an enhancement for full rerolls. a ten man flash kit unit led by The Big Mac Mega Armor gives the unit 4 Pendulum, gives the unit Regen. And the enhancement gives them full re rolls, which is a huge deal when you're talking about a unit that puts out 40 shots to the nearest thing. Also, remember, Overwatch is fantastic. With this unit with full re rolls. You're looking at 22, average hits on that'cause they have sustained one, so every hits two hits. They also have a AML rod to give you. Lethal hits. Once again, the unit can really do some work and everybody forgets that flash kits are knobs. They have four base attacks at strength five. one of the things you can also give on tactics is that plus one strength. give them stealth. plus one to hit in shooting. you've got options you can put one or two, if you do two, you have to roll your leadership. You just fail it. It's like doing a pact for chaos. You take D3 mortals. new tank busters, once a game, can make their. AP and strength go up. when you first shoot. they go to strength 10, AP three, flat three damage. You put a Big Mac with shock attack gun. He gives you re roll once, then choose the tactic.

Alan:

I love shock attack guns.

Brad:

I've been on the receiving end of a shock attack gun from Alan and it's never good. didn't like Zero out of 10, wouldn't recommend.

Alan:

I love flash kits. I love the idea of pirate. Orcs all the time, And I also love the idea of taking, tank buses. So that sounds great. are these all in trucks?

Brad:

Well, that's the thing is you have lots of, this is one of my favorites is you get to pick and choose. Orcs so many where you have solutions for everything, but you could choose incorrectly most of the time is run three trucks. my list right now is two units, be snag a boys with two beast bosses, which gives you option for doing dev wounds to monster.

Alan:

the beast bosses still have the reroll against the monsters

Brad:

Yeah, because the Beast Snaggas, they're doing dev wounds. they're anti vehicle, anti monster 4. when they charge, they do dev wounds. 2 dev wounds, for every success they get full rerolls with Beast Snaggas. one of the strats is you can do either lethal sustained. you can choose lethals per one CP and look for sixes with a million attacks that are hitting on twos. So it's not a big deal cause they're plus one to hit with that beast buff. Noodling,

Alan:

for sixes.

Brad:

Amy. Noodling for sixes. But I really love when you bring those tank busters out. Three damage is big in the meta right now.

Alan:

huge problem with orcs. their damage was a big problem in earlier 10th.

Brad:

hundred percent.

Alan:

where they just didn't have the damage.

Brad:

the AP was a big deal when you're pushing things to AP three and the shock attack on his AP four, and then you've got them hitting on four rerolling ones, you get very consistent. With the rockets each guy has a rocket and the knob has two rocket pistols, which have the exact same stat line. It's just the distance you're hitting hard deleting it. I've been running three of those, three shock attack guns, three tank busters, that goes back to eighth edition when I took that army but you completely made the army. While in line in customs in Chicago,

Alan:

great army. love that army. how many times have we made an army list? traveling to an event didn't think of a list lists were already due too late hope we don't see this now or we leave an event someone played something we countered it built the counter meta in the car or the bus

Brad:

so

Alan:

or the

Brad:

or the,

Alan:

Or we, or we just made that list that they played better. We're like, Oh, you could drop like these 500 points, like

Brad:

so many times, a hundred percent. it's nice because you're looking at those answers. What could I do? What can I, you know, how do I do about this? And one of the big things I always say, don't chase the meta, but be aware of the meta, be aware of what's out there, I like those tank busters so much. It's a heavy vehicle matter right now. it looks like you have a big dichotomy.

Alan:

and beast

Brad:

The beast, so many attacks you can take care of trash. you have tank killing with full re roll, plus one to hit plus one to wound, and then you've got ability to pick up trash too. So you have a little bit of both with the orcs I really like to run two five man's on the. Flashkits. So 1. 10 with full rerolls, 2. 5s because nothing takes out the trash like Flashkits.

Alan:

man unit of flash

Brad:

80 points gets you 20 attack. This is non log 20 attacks could be strength six because the tactics. So you're wounding idiots on twos of their T3 models, but also you're shooting the closest target. That's 20 shots.

Alan:

20 shots.

Brad:

So 20 shots, 20 attacks and the shots are all damaged too. you can clear two units of nonsense with one 80 point unit. I think they're fantastic.

Alan:

Remember when the flash kids could shoot again a six?

Brad:

Oh, yeah, with no limit

Alan:

I did that in a tournament once. I rolled six times with a flash kit unit, full 10 man unit

Brad:

bananas,

Alan:

And I just roll. I kept rolling and rolling. It was insane. I killed everything in vicinity. kept getting six at the end. For those who don't know, you finish shooting and if you roll a six, you get to shoot again. The unit shoots again and pick and picks a new target.

Brad:

it was so big,

Alan:

It was the Orkstompa?

Brad:

It's

Alan:

doubles

Brad:

doubles.

Alan:

you pick a new target within 12 inches.

Brad:

Also,

Alan:

Yeah, it's pretty crazy stuff.

Brad:

I, I just think

Alan:

orcs always have play. I think the biggest thing, and I'm curious what you think about this. I think out of every army in 40K, they have the most loyal community of players. And they're also, if you were to graph them and ask how important is winning the tournament to you? They would

Brad:

it's

Alan:

they'd be

Brad:

lowest

Alan:

right?

Brad:

sure.

Alan:

They want to play with the gargantuan squig off. They want to play with 150 boys. They want to play with their Gorka, not in more cannot and their planes. And the guys who are really trying to game orcs, usually come to the army when it really is an S tier codex. And they just don't want to struggle. Like there's just better things in the meta. They're not chasing orcs and the people who remain playing orcs are playing their fun models. They're playing the models. They're like me, seven shin orc war copters, not competitive at all. Just body everyone, you know, I

Brad:

So annoying. The meme you created was so annoying too. Beanie Brad in a tournament. Having them be legends the day after. Priceless.

Alan:

where would you put orcs right now?

Brad:

Midget.

Alan:

top

Brad:

They're top of B tier. They're not an A plus army because they don't have that. you need to know how to play the army.

Alan:

we're talking about using things that counter meta, flash gates, shock attack guns, attaching things correctly, using trucks, maybe a 20 man unit

Brad:

hundred percent.

Alan:

you're

Brad:

he's a game changer the nine inch scout.

Alan:

is just so good, right? you don't have the movement other than in the trucks and you'd be abusing the trucks a little bit someone playing orcs knows what they're doing. understands the meta. go five and Oh,

Brad:

hundred percent,

Alan:

I think so too.

Brad:

it's not the highest power level list, but it has the tools you need The problem is that. every army has to have a little bit of luck. So sometimes you're going to play against certain things that are going to be a little harder. If you make mistakes, orcs aren't very forgiving if you play a perfect game, 5 and 0 within your grasp. I understand the pain of orc players one mistake. And the dice gods come to talk to you.

Alan:

what are some of the mistakes? Let's talk about them. I think when I watch you play lately and I've played you, over the last five, six years in a couple of events here and there I have,

Brad:

Heh heh.

Alan:

the fact that you always put trucks next to an obscuring piece of terrain. if the truck happens to blow up You can get out it doesn't look like it can, you always get out the unit and save it. you've done this a lot of games and you've also recycled trucks. I've noticed that you get another truck to come up and pick up that unit a turn later, and then get them back move it up the flank, get guys out. So I feel like deploying your trucks in a way where you don't lose units is important.

Brad:

not losing the trucks to I see people all the time after one. I think this is important, actually, because a lot of times I take my trucks and put them right on walls because I want that extra three inches and the unit behind gets in a net six inch movement. But I see a lot of times is people. Throwing their trucks away. Now, those are the things that are doing secondaries for you. They're taking an objective when the game gets late and people don't have all the resources left to kill something that's got, you know, 10 moves.

Alan:

You need to

Brad:

you can't,

Alan:

the

Brad:

you push that truck up and make it so they can't rapid ingress deep strike, so many armies can recycle gray nights.

Alan:

Yeah.

Brad:

blocks people

Alan:

Don't,

Brad:

I

Alan:

sacrifice

Brad:

yeah, every unit has value. Even if it's just pushing things out nine inches.

Alan:

to win a trade if it can delay a reserve, secure your back line, keep something off an objective area,

Brad:

perform

Alan:

you're

Brad:

recovery, doing some random exit you don't want anybody else to

Alan:

if you're keeping in mind, what your opponent has drawn and what they could draw, you could be putting those trucks in positioning to mitigate what a different

Brad:

I think it's a big deal. I see people all the time. They'll get people out and drive that truck in to get extra tax or push it. they're not thinking about it as a value asset. it's a huge deal

Alan:

want to take guesses because you're the expert So I'm going to ask you, and then you tell me if I'm on cracker, if I'm still thinking about the game the

Brad:

I'm on crack, well, you're on crack, but you could also be correct.

Alan:

True. another big thing would be killing something and not killing it.

Brad:

That's it.

Alan:

out

Brad:

That's big with everybody.

Alan:

But with orcs you want to always win trades. You can't lose a unit without it killing one of your core units,

Brad:

it's

Alan:

bus

Brad:

big.

Alan:

needs to get that kill to justify its existence. okay, what's the math say? you want to be slightly higher than average,

Brad:

I don't do anything unless it's an 83 percent chance of success.

Alan:

Wow. Okay. Okay. So reserved.

Brad:

It's a dice game.

Alan:

know, and reserved until you're pretty confident.

Brad:

I don't want to do anything unless it's 83. it's a D6 dice game.

Alan:

Yeah.

Brad:

I don't try to do anything like that because

Alan:

if you have an army where, you can move during your opponent's turn, you have reactive things, you have a bunch of strats that can keep things alive, or you just have two up saves with four up feel invulnerables, you could go for things and if it doesn't pan out, it might not be the end of the world.

Brad:

yeah. However, you know what orcs are wearing? T shirts.

Alan:

know.

Brad:

I'm as armed as an orc

Alan:

well aware.

Brad:

What's the deal

Alan:

Yeah.

Brad:

One of the big things you talk about committing having that walk in your back pocket is a big deal because now that they moved it, the command phase, you can threaten, I can move this far at max.

Alan:

that's a bit of an old school tactic

Brad:

It's gamesmanship, baby.

Alan:

some people will get it right away. you're always basically kind of like threatening. things that are ridiculous. like, Oh, they can get 28 inches. But that's a six run and a 12 inch charge. And it's like, you know, but like you're, but you're like, but you, and you take out the tape measure

Brad:

every time.

Alan:

far that is?

Brad:

A hundred percent.

Alan:

they're like, I might not want to get within 24. dude, you're going to be fine.

Brad:

not getting out.

Alan:

Yeah. getting out, but I'm going to tell you this so you back up a little

Brad:

a big thing

Alan:

them down

Brad:

once people know the walk has gone, Then they can set up and go, okay, cool. I'm going to be right here. And it's a big deal. Especially units like Zod. Zod goes 12 inches plus a D six. So he's going 13 minimum inches on his move with 20 Gretchen. They can actually do real things. Cause they're plus one to hit plus one to wound. He's minus one to wound.

Alan:

If That middle area behind a ruin behind obscuring, and it's just a little bit of trash you think is going to get you that middle board. If you draw the card and Zog's like, no, I'm not going to let that happen.

Brad:

Yup.

Alan:

he won't let that happen. If he rolls a small charge is huge. If he doesn't roll a big charge, he doesn't have to commit models into base contact.

Brad:

Go Eddie. It's just crazy. You just go, you start touching stuff, especially everybody's vehicles. You're parking a lot. They're backfield.

Alan:

you don't mess with that

Brad:

valuable,

Alan:

one

Brad:

on the walk

Alan:

super waste

Brad:

with minus one to wound. you have to win them on threes, even though they're toughness And then he's got a five up involve. It's just so annoying because you're taking 33 percent of the damage away.

Alan:

Yeah.

Brad:

They're not wounding you as much. And all of a sudden somebody, doesn't commit to killing that unit because it's 22 models It's a lot of trash to get through.

Alan:

I like that orcs have some legs. the buggy list is dead these days. There isn't a lot with the flyers, the Gorka, not more cannot stomp a rancher and squig, I'm still a fun orc player at heart. got my squig off right here on the shelf

Brad:

They need to change the prices a lot of the, big stuff is overpriced and

Alan:

much forage

Brad:

like crazy

Alan:

I have

Brad:

I really wanted to hunt to be better. that's the one thing I wish was better. I love my squigs.

Alan:

Yeah,

Brad:

my steak bites.

Alan:

I want to tell you a story.

Brad:

Hit me.

Alan:

do you know about Tuska, the demon killer?

Brad:

Tell me,

Alan:

40k lore cast.

Brad:

I would like to hear that from you,

Alan:

Tuska, the demon killer war boss,

Brad:

I think when you say demon killer, you mean a specific type of demon, though. Maybe even horn demon.

Alan:

he was, he was legendary renowned as the demon killer before this happened.

Brad:

True.

Alan:

he

Brad:

Yeah.

Alan:

then he was like, I want to earn my stripes in eternity. then he walked into the warp with his entire orc warband and fought Khorne,

Brad:

Khorne's territory.

Alan:

things inside the warp, bitch slapped a demon prince of Khorne who was like renowned, had like a name. when a demon prince gets a name, they're serious. I forgot his name. You know why? Cause who cares? Tuska pimped him.

Brad:

Because it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter what your name is.

Alan:

Tusca went in and freaking people's elbowed him. I love the story because it's just such a great tale. It's a dude, orc leader, renowned demon killer goes in the war fights until he dies then corn, the God goes, this guy's cool. Let me create a small Coliseum in my corn and bring him back to life eternity.

Brad:

But to fight forever,

Alan:

He just keeps picking up his weapons and killing more every time he dies corn wakes him up the next day and he fights again

Brad:

and

Alan:

and

Brad:

that just does more power for Khorne,

Alan:

I feel like it's the greatest outcome for any character in the entire 40k lore

Brad:

that's all he wanted to do

Alan:

Every other character in the Grimdark future is just shit.

Brad:

All of them. there's no happy endings Grimdark.

Alan:

got his happy ending. I mean, it's one of the coolest stories. I love the story. If we could have for Adepticon built this board, like I would have loved to build a display board of the warp and Tuska going through endless bodies of Khorne demons. that would have been the sickest board ever. I would have loved it.

Brad:

I'm going to do, I'm going to segue your segue. Last week we solidified what we're bringing for this year's Adepticon.

Alan:

We did.

Brad:

You've been playing Adepticon teams. Forever. What is your favorite army? It doesn't have to be favorite result. Your favorite. at Adepticon, you have a theme, comp, giant display board. I mean, when talking giant, I'm talking huge, giant display boards. Just our last year's display board was what? Eight feet tall, nine feet tall.

Alan:

11 feet tall.

Brad:

forgot the tree part. huge.

Alan:

The throne was nine feet

Brad:

what was your favorite? Army. the painted army, but also how much fun was the army? How much fun was the army? What was the best year?

Alan:

for me, it's a close tie between when we did the orc year and the world leaders year. We did an orc moon and the story of the beast.

Brad:

I love a scar in my head,

Alan:

Orcs were fun that year. Daniel came in from Sweden, Daniel Hesselberg, captain of team Sweden forever. I don't care who your captain is these days. It's still Daniel in my eyes. we had a really good time. And then world leaders with anger on. I think 10th just dropped. It was your first year on the team, Brad.

Brad:

Sure,

Alan:

We pivoted off guard. We thought the comp score for guard would

Brad:

No,

Alan:

atrocious

Brad:

We won the first year.

Alan:

We thought we thought guard would be atrocious. We were like, guard's going to just get absolutely destroyed in combat

Brad:

hey,

Alan:

teams. So we moved off of guard. We played world leaders had a great time and made a really cool board. It was like a, it was like a four scenes of air of

Brad:

God's life.

Alan:

So it was him as a gladiator meeting the emperor and his people the emperor teleports him away. then it was him and the 30 K Esteban three. Fighting. We made the scene of the dead emperors, death guard they virus bomb the planet. then the third scene was the battle of terror when he turned into a demon prince for the first time. the fourth was the reactor gate. when he turned into a full blown demon

Brad:

With the,

Alan:

versions

Brad:

with the Coral Engine, yeah,

Alan:

Yeah. And then a blood vodka fruit punch fountain

Brad:

the top, I,

Alan:

I'm not the finesse reserve, chill player. I'm like, let's go kill people.

Brad:

I'm telling you,

Alan:

leaders.

Brad:

I I want to throw this because Alan and I only play once in five games every year because we're not allowed. We get, boot it. So we went to play

Alan:

teammates,

Brad:

with teammates.

Alan:

as teammates.

Brad:

Cause you play four and you play. there's four people on a team it gets split and you play two on one table and two on another table.

Alan:

2v2.

Brad:

any day two, you get to choose who you want. everybody has to play at least once. Alan and I are playing This is the neck right here. This is the, with you at a ground and we're sitting, and I'm telling we don't charge. we're just going to sit. We're going to get our points. We're going to sit. We're going to get our points. he's getting more and more angry with me. finally, looks at me and goes, I will never play 40 K if I don't get to do stuff, I don't care if I'm winning or losing. And then just went and made some random super long charge in the back. And we're just like, I don't care what we're doing. I'm still attacking. 40k lorecast.

Alan:

Yeah, that's what I do. I had fun. Those were my fun years, Tusca the best of the orcs. I'm glad we told a quick org story because we are sponsored by,

Brad:

40klorecast. com. Go to our website. Go to the thing. What? Listen to us on Spotify.

Alan:

and we are sponsored by proof and wood. This is their rye called Tumbling Dice. This is a fantastic rye. It's distilled in Indiana. around 104. 6 proof. I love it. It smells good. very good nose. it just, it has a great finish. soft bread.

Brad:

ready

Alan:

I'll probably make you a bourbon smash since you can't drink straight, but it is fantastic stuff.

Brad:

bourbon smashes are delicious. They're so good.

Alan:

be great in a bourbon smash

Brad:

you can't make me something delicious and expect me not to drink it,

Alan:

That's a valid point.

Brad:

You did perfect it by making me drink so many, you kept handing me new ones with a slightly different variation.

Alan:

I like trying to make cocktails better,

Brad:

good. We were watching the Superbowl.

Alan:

It was unfortunate the second one was the best. And I'm like, I don't know if I can make that one again. I'm not sure.

Brad:

Well, the funny thing is you sat down and went, I have no idea what I put in that drink.

Alan:

Cause I was making my own drinks.

Brad:

true story.

Alan:

Yeah.

Brad:

It was in the evening after drinking all day.

Alan:

Definitely grinds my gears,

Brad:

ready for it.

Alan:

I got one for you today. Are you ready? I don't know if you are.

Brad:

Hold on. Wait.

Alan:

it.

Brad:

Hold on. I gotta get my chi together. Alright, I'm ready.

Alan:

wanted to talk to you about something I know you've already had conversations with other people around. I wanted to bring up weaponization of playing by intent and your thoughts

Brad:

I don't think playing by intent is what you think playing by intent is Here's what I'm trying to do. I have to get you involved in this. I would like to do this, Alan. A lot of times I bring extra models so I can make sure. I measure it out. Is it physically possible for me to try to hide from you? I've measured, do we both agree this is nine inches from the edge? That is playing intent, me explaining what I'm trying to do.

Alan:

No,

Brad:

That is what I think intent is.

Alan:

That's

Brad:

Yeah. when you play by that, things happen on the board, stuff gets bumped. A giant person hits your board everything, shakes, dice, hit a bottle.

Alan:

Water bottles could possibly

Brad:

Water bottles could be hit, but if you communicate with your opponent, saying what you're trying to do and ask for their help,

Alan:

Listen to you. explaining like playing with your opponent. you're literally explaining like, I want to do actions, but before I do them, I want to check to confirm. And that's exactly what you're supposed

Brad:

That's my name.

Alan:

that's not what play by intent has become. You know, this, I know this, I've watched some streams. I'm not a big stream watcher, but I've watched some, and there is a passive aggressive attitude with this play by intent thing, taken completely out of context. in my opinion, people are saying I intend to do X, Y, and Z, and just start moving models. There is no agreement from their opponent. There is no proof that what you intend

Brad:

You have to.

Alan:

No, but that's not what's happening. That's not what's happening in the game.

Brad:

Yeah, but you're bastardizing.

Alan:

the vast majority of people claim that they play by intent.

Brad:

I don't believe

Alan:

the streams. Okay. Go look at the streams. pick a stream. any stream. You're going to see it. It's on there. And also there's this new thing now where it's like. It's way past that action. It's way past when you moved your models. It's way past, your movement or assault phase It's my turn now, I'm trying to put a unit behind you, get a little spot. I found a little nine inch spot. You said absolutely nothing during your turn, positioned your models I can get a heroic on you. You said nothing.

Brad:

you yell at me

Alan:

I'm going to heroic you. And you're like, well, my intent is for you not to heroic me. No, that's not how this works. If

Brad:

I'll give you that.

Alan:

touched a model, you were like my intent. I know you can heroic, I'm going to move in and I want to be positioned in a way where you can't heroic. I want, do you mind helping me measure it?

Brad:

Also, is this possible?

Alan:

Is it possible? Do you mind helping me measure to see if it's possible, right? That is, in my opinion, fine. If you want to call that play by intent, I call that just playing 40k. That's like typically what you should be doing. You should always be doing that. It's an interactive game with another person for at least an hour and a half,

Brad:

Can I ask a scenario on your intent? I want to see where you're at. If I have three charges, two here, one on the other side of the table, and I tell you what I'm doing, I'm moving here, trying to charge here, declare this unit, try to pile into your tank, charge over there. If I make these two charges, and forget this, but told you I want to make that charge, would you

Alan:

That's fine.

Brad:

I'm asking,

Alan:

Yeah. There's different levels of douchebaggery. If you've gone to the assault phase, and you're like, Oh, I forgot to move the models. I was obviously going to charge. That's fine. If anyone says you can't charge now, you've passed the charge phase. that is a bit unsportsmanlike,

Brad:

I

Alan:

fairly

Brad:

just wanted your opinion on that

Alan:

I feel,

Brad:

that is kind of a dick move,

Alan:

thing though. That's just like, I'm trying to play quick for the game and you know, I'm going to

Brad:

but I

Alan:

whether,

Brad:

that's intent because I told you what I want to do,

Alan:

in your example, people get excited when they charge. They forget to move models. it's inappropriate for you to punish them on that fact.

Brad:

they should be excited.

Alan:

now, there's different things like that that's something that you as the opponent, like the person getting charged, there was very little you could do to stop that scenario. Now, in another instance I charge in and didn't say anything to you, you try to heroic me. And I go, Oh, I don't want to get heroic here. I forgot. Right. Oh, I intended not to get heroic. No, that's not cool. Because now there's interaction. You shoot my corn berserker unit. forget about blood surge, Or get too close to my demons. forget about blood surge. and then I go, okay, I'm surging you. I'm getting you in combat. You're like, Oh, my intent was to stay out of the six. No, no, that's not your intent. You said nothing. Right. And then this goes further because when I'm on these streams, There is almost a disdain if a player does not allow the person to get the takesy backsy. It's like, oh, there's a lot of take backs here. This is nice. No, it's inappropriate for the game. I disagree completely. Because interaction is the point of this game. it's like playing chess. You moved your pawn, took your fingers off. I took it with my queen now you're in check. you're like, oh, my intention wasn't to get in check. Yeah, no shit.

Brad:

Yeah.

Alan:

that's how the game works. when there's an interaction, it's inappropriate to weaponize intent when there's something like, I move this charge. We settled an overwatch actions happened we got excited. clearly I'm going to charge here because I've exposed my entire unit. if I don't charge, they all die. you're penalizing your opponent for something that, you know, is a, is a genuine miss,

Brad:

Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay.

Alan:

and a human mistake are two different things in my opinion, right? if you make a human mistake on the board where there was no real interaction possible, Giving your opponent the benefit of doubt on those things is a sportsman like thing to do. Giving your opponent the benefit of a doubt on a game mistake is not only inappropriate to everyone else in the tournament, because you are now creating an artificial and fake game, but also it's inappropriate to your opponent. If they want to learn, if they want to get better, they need to make that mistake and you need to help them make that mistake so that they stop making that mistake because they're going to go to the next table and they're going to play some introverts who are going to get a very bad taste in their mouth. They're going to leave that game and go, Oh, he screwed this up, but he kind of, you know, whined about it. So I gave it to him then I lost and shouldn't have lost. And you know, they feel bad and talk in the cafeteria or the lunch area or wherever they're eating. That's not good for the game. If someone makes a mistake, it up. There's another tournament. There's another round. another event. another game. don't be that guy. that's not cool.

Brad:

Okay.

Alan:

gears.

Brad:

I'll give it to you. I think that people need to communicate more, to be perfectly honest also. I think you also, you have a social agreement with your opponent. Not to have them have a great time, but to make sure that they don't have a bad time. And I think part of that goes through explaining what you're doing. Talking out loud. Hey, get it. But getting their interaction. Here's my thing about it.

Alan:

not mumbling to yourself.

Brad:

Yeah. But

Alan:

if I move there, if I move there,

Brad:

that's where you get their acknowledgement.

Alan:

I love you, Kurt. Don't fight me, I love you, Kurt, you are. Don't thumb me, bro. Don't thumb me, bro.

Brad:

You could die from that, bro.

Alan:

would just mumble to himself the whole game. You're like, what are you talking about? Don't worry about it. I'm just planning my turn. Why are you doing it out loud? You have a brain. Like, just think inside the

Brad:

But I like, I like, I like to say things out loud to make sure my opponent knows what I'm doing.

Alan:

mumbling, which many people do. they don't communicate to the point. I love Kurt. Kurt's the best. not saying anything negative. there are people who mumble things there's probably a group of people who said it in their head. And then they were like, well, I didn't intend to do that. Yeah. I'm not a mind reader, you know, and it looks like to me, you made a game mistake and I have to hold you on it. It is what it is. you shouldn't be trying to fish game mistakes.

Brad:

gotcha.

Alan:

be putting their models on the table before they move and then saying, Oh, your movements done. You shouldn't be doing any of those things. Those are not cool. Those are not cool. We all know those are not cool. Shouldn't be Pamps, right? I can name Pamps. he got me so good. I finished moving. He goes, all right, who are you going to shoot? And I'm like, well, I'm going to shoot here and here, but let me think about it. He's like, you declared it. I'm going to pass Nexus. You can't, you can't shoot at them now. I'm like, Whoa. I didn't say he's like, I asked who you're going to shoot. You said here and here. He's like, I got you. And I'm like, that's not cool.

Brad:

gotcha.

Alan:

I still think that's not cool, but he got me good. I, and I told him that two minutes later, I was mad about it, but I was like, got me good.

Brad:

Next you're going to put Wraithknights in Psychic Rage.

Alan:

Oh, that was great. I psychic scream Brad's wraith night off a table at LVO. It was to go into the semifinals. then I had to go get married. So that was pretty

Brad:

Yeah,

Alan:

You're my best man. What if you beat me? Then you wouldn't have been at my wedding.

Brad:

I would have just still left. Britt

Alan:

I'm glad to hear that. Actually. That's good. That's good news.

Brad:

She's like, what are you going to do if he goes? I'm just going to leave. to explain to anyone. I had to play with my toys.

Alan:

Can you win the ITC now without going to England? Is it possible?

Brad:

If somebody won all of the 500 man English tournaments, And they came in Alveo and did well because they'd be too many points in the current point setup. However, it's not probable that someone's going to do that in the first place.

Alan:

I miss this, man. appreciate you taking time to get back with me.

Brad:

excited to run this.

Alan:

I am too, man. I am too. I'm very excited to run this, but that is all for today's chapter of the podcast, chapter four 16, which is our new title and I am pajama pants. That is Brad Chester.

Brad:

This guy.

Alan:

we really appreciate everyone watching and tuning in. Feel free to click the thumbs up button that does help other people find the podcast. And if you want to know when we actually launched the videos, feel free to subscribe and turn on that notification. Thank you guys so much.

Intro:

Mhm.