Politics, pipelines, and the price of B.C.'s climate inaction (w/ Emiko Newman)

This episode aired on February 19 2025.

In this first episode of Break In Case of Emergency, host Erin Blondeau sits down with Emiko Newman, Coordinator of the BC Climate Emergency Campaign, to examine British Columbia's climate action record. Despite thinking of itself as a climate leader, BC received failing grades in a recent progress report that evaluated the province's response to the climate emergency.

Emiko breaks down why BC's emissions have increased while the European Union has achieved a 36% reduction below 1990 levels, and how BC's commitment to liquefied natural gas (LNG) expansion undermines its climate goals and directly contributes to rising costs through increased utility bills and climate disaster impacts.

Break In Case of Emergency is a podcast about mobilizing Canada for the climate crisis, focused on audacious climate solutions rooted in justice and workers' rights.

Written and produced by Erin Blondeau, Doug Hamilton-Evans and Emiko Newman. Music by Anjali Appadurai. Audio editing by Blue Light Studios. Artwork by Geoff Smith. 

Learn more at climateemergencyunit.ca/podcast

Transcript

After decades of warnings from indigenous nations, leaders, scientists, and climate activists, the climate emergency is here. And with that comes all types of instability. Welcome to Break in Case of Emergency, a podcast about mobilizing Canada for the climate crisis. We're all about audacious climate solutions rooted in justice and workers' rights. I'm Erin Blondeau, and this is the very first episode of break in case of emergency.

British Columbia is supposedly a leader when it comes to its climate plan called Clean BC. But a recent report from the BC Climate Emergency Campaign argues that the province is not the leader that it claims to be. The report graded the BC government on how well it's been achieving 10 key climate actions called for by hundreds of groups from across BC. The result, three failing grades and seven grades of minor progress. Ultimately, the report finds that any ambitions or progress from the BC government is actually undone by its support for LNG projects or liquefied natural gas.

To unpack this and dig into what's happening and what's not happening in BC's approach to the climate emergency, I'd like to welcome my friend and colleague at the Climate Emergency Unit. She is also the coordinator of the BC Climate Emergency Campaign, Emiko Newman. Emiko, welcome to the podcast, and congratulations on being our very first guest. How are you? Hey, Erin.

Thank you so much for having me on, and I am so excited that we're finally getting to this podcast. 

I know. It's been such a long time coming. Okay. So I think a great place to start before we unpack the findings of the report would be to give us a quick introduction to the BC Climate Emergency Campaign. So who's behind it, what's the purpose, and what does it do? Just so that our listeners can understand where this is coming from, and then we can dig into the details later. 

Sure. So the BC climate emergency campaign started in the spring of 2021 when a number of climate groups throughout BC came together with the shared frustration that BC's climate plan, Clean BC, that you just mentioned was simply not ambitious enough, and its targets were not binding, and there was no plan to phase out fossil fuels. So these groups decided to come together and create essentially a joint coalition of sorts that could work together to put pressure on the BC government to ramp up the ambition of Clean BC.

And the first joint task of the campaign was putting together this list of 10 urgent actions that the members wished the BC government to take. So, basically, all the work we do with the campaign centers around these 10 actions, and the 10 actions also form the frame for this progress report, which we just released in January. The last thing I'll mention is that we're super excited. We just reached a huge milestone, which is that 600 actually, more than 600. I think we're at 612 now.

Civil society organizations have signed on in support of these 10 actions. And when we did the math, that those 600 organizations represent approximately 2,200,000 British Columbians. So that's pretty exciting. 

Well, that's that is really exciting. And I can't wait to talk more about that because I wanna know about the groups that have joined. But first, can you talk us through the report and what the key findings are? 

Sure. So there were a few key findings. The first one is that BC is simply not the climate leader that it claims to be. I think if you talk to a lot of people throughout Canada or even the world, there's this we have this image that BC is taking great strides when it comes to its climate action.

But when you actually get into it, that is definitely not the case. And the reasoning behind that is that BC has failed to meet its emissions reduction targets for more than a decade. And it's incredibly problematic because it takes quite a while to get the emissions reporting actually released. So you'll hear us talking about 2022's emissions because that's the last year for which we actually have data. And in that year, emissions went up by 3.3%.

So if you look at 1990 levels, BC is now 26% above where we were back in 1990, and that is not the where where we should be. We are not moving in the right direction. Okay. That sounds kind of bad, but how does that compare to other places? So I can give you a really good example of positive progress, which would be the European Union.

They released sorry. They reduced their emissions 8% in 2023. So that's one year alone. And if you look at their annual emissions compared to 1990, they are now 36% below. So this is an incredible example of rapid emission reduction, and it shows that it's possible.

So if you hear things from elected officials saying, well, we just can't move that quickly, it's definitely not true because we are seeing other jurisdictions move incredibly quickly. And, yeah, basically, that the key take from this is that BC is not moving in the right direction. And the main reason for that, it all comes back down to LNG or liquefied natural gas. And I know we'll talk about this more soon in this episode. But what I will just say now is that we have a number of LNG export projects that may be coming online this year.

And if that happens, BC's emissions are certainly not gonna be going down anytime soon. We're gonna be locking in climate pollution for decades to come and really making it impossible for BC to hit its climate targets. 

Honestly, it's so shocking to me that the government continues to push LNG when the scientific evidence just shows us over and over again how harmful it is both to us and to the environment and to our health, and particularly to people with conditions like asthma, which my son has pretty severe asthma. So, yeah, it always just blows my mind. But what else did the report find?

Another key finding from the report is that climate change is costing British Columbians in very real terms. So if you look at 2024 alone, we can see that BC endured a deep freeze, and I'm sure folks remember that. That was in early 2024, which was absolutely devastating for fruit grow growers and farmers in the in the interior, in particular, in the Okanagan. We went through zombie fires, which is basically when you have fires that keep smoldering underground even during winter, even when there's snow on the ground and then they come back to life once it's warmer. We endured deadly atmospheric rivers and flooding and mudslides, not to mention heat waves and droughts and wildfires, and the list goes on.

And I'm sure folks listening to this, have all you know, they have their own experiences going through these various, weather events, and it's impacting us. It's costing people's lives. It's causing unfortunate health impacts. It's not good news at all. Yeah.

Honestly, it's so terrifying. I remember the heat dome in 2021 and how brutally hot it got. And I remember being so afraid for my parents because they were living in a second story apartment. And, it was it faced the sun. It got really hot, and they had no air conditioning.

So we gave them our really old air conditioning machine, and then we kind of my partner and I, we spent the night on the the floor on our bottom floor because it was the only place cool enough that we could sleep at night. How else do these climate disasters impact people's daily lives? 

Yeah. In so many ways. And obviously, the environmental impacts are the ones that come to mind first, but it's so much more than that. So you just mentioned your fear for your parents during the heat dome, and I'm sure everybody in BC has their own memories of that really scary time. But it's so it's the health outcomes as well, you know, being exposed to wildfire smoke. And we saw wildfire smoke spreading across the whole country in the past few years, which was really really terrifying. And, of course, we have had extreme temperatures, and other sorts of weather related hazards that are causing people's health to really deteriorate. And people with outlying conditions as well, like you mentioned, Aaron, your son who has asthma, folks with disabilities as well are particularly vulnerable to high heat and that sort of thing.

And we're also seeing financial impacts. And this is not something that we're gonna see in 2050. This is something that we're seeing literally right now. So the climate crisis is really extracting a heavy price. It's reshaping our economy.

And there was a study by the International Institute for Sustainable Development that showed that basically the climate crisis is costing BC taxpayers at least $17 billion a year. This is what the research is showing. And if that's not scary, I don't know what is. Definitely scary to me. Like, that's an astronomical number.

And it just is so striking to me that politicians claim to care about things like affordability, and they put it in their platforms. But then they continue to block or delay climate and environmental policies. Or in the case of the conservatives, they suggest that human caused climate change just doesn't even exist. And like you said, climate change is costing us. But, Emiko, back to the report, was there another key message that you'd like to share from that?

Yeah. So the final key message that we really emphasize through the report is that committing to LNG is only going to cost us more. So the day that we released the report, which was mid January, Fortis, BC customers suffered a 17.5% hike in the price of natural gas, and this was to pay for new pipelines. So if you if you're a Fortis, BC customer, maybe go and check your bills and see if you experience that hike as well. But this is only going to get worse as the province begins exporting LNG later this year, which is the current plan.

And what I will point out, which I think a lot of British Columbians maybe are not aware of, but that's really important to know, is that when both The US and Australia became LNG exporters, they both saw significant increases in their domestic gas prices. And so it's very likely that BC is about to go down the same path. So, basically, what you're telling me is that we can expect more unaffordability in the future thanks to the increasing cost of pipelines and fossil fuels. Great. Yeah.

And it doesn't make any sense because you hear the NDP going on and on about how concerned they are about these kitchen table issues, things like affordability, things like health care, things like, cost of living. And these are very seriously impacting people every single day and and very important issues to be acting on. What we're asking for is climate to be included in those kitchen table issues because I don't know about you, Erin, but climate change is something that I certainly talk about at my kitchen table. It's something I'm thinking about all the time. And, you know, I think the same goes for so many people throughout BC.

Oh, yeah. Definitely. And this makes me wonder, like, how are these corporations sustaining themselves? Do they get any kind of help from the government or anything like that? Yeah.

So it's really important to be talking about subsidies right now when we're in this place where BC is preparing to green light all of these LNG export plans. So, basically, what it seems like the plan is using clean electricity to power these new LNG export facilities. This clean up electricity was originally slated to go towards, powering people's homes and heating and cooling people's homes. But if this plan goes ahead, basically, it would result in a new multibillion dollar public subsidy to greenwash fossil fuels. So we're already seeing Fortis, Fortis, BC upping their, costs.

We're seeing, price hikes. And basically, our electricity bills with BC Hydro are also going to be going up too. So you'll hear the government's reasoning behind this plan. Basically, they're saying that these subsidies are super important because they will help reduce emissions from this high-polluting industry. But what they're not saying is is they're not talking about the emissions that are actually caused when you are burning those fossil fuels somewhere else. So it's really this is not a good plan. And as I've already said a number of times, BC is not moving in the right direction. Right. 

Okay. I do wanna get into LNG more in a second, but you mentioned earlier the 10 actions that the BC climate emergency campaign and this report is framed around. So do you think that you could quickly walk us through the 10 actions and how the BC government is doing on them? 

Definitely. So I think I will tell folks who are listening to please go to our website. And from there, you can find the 2024 progress report and look at all the 10 actions and the grades that they received and the rationale. So I think for now, I'll just walk us through three of the 10.

So, basically, of the ten, seven actions received a grade of minor progress, and the remaining three received a failing grade. So those are the ones that I will walk us through now. The first one of those is action number one, set binding climate pollution targets based on science and justice. This was the first action to receive a fail. And the reason for that is what I've already mentioned is that BC has not met its emission reduction targets for over a decade, nor are we on track to meet our 2025 targets.

So that's very concerning. And, you know, the thing is that even if we were on track to meet these targets, they are not ambitious enough. They are not aligned with an emergency framework. We need to be drastically slashing our emissions, and that is simply not happening. And I encourage people to go look at the report.

We have a chart showing where BC's emissions have been every year. And you can see that there are minor fluctuations going up and down here and there, especially through COVID. There was a little dip. But, essentially, you know, we're not seeing the dramatic decline that we need to be seeing. So that was action number one.

Action number three also received a fail, which is rapidly wind down all fossil fuel production and use. So I don't think this comes as any surprise that we gave that one a fail. Surprise. But I will say what I will say is that, in 2023, the BC NDP provincial council actually adopted our 10 actions, which was incredibly exciting with the exception of action number three. So they changed the wording. So instead of saying rapidly wind down all fossil fuel production in use, they said engage in a discussion about the future of fossil fuel production in BC. So that's a pretty dramatic switcheroo. 

Mhmm. 

We were excited that they adopted the 10 actions, but it's pretty noticeable and intriguing that they really changed up that wording of number three. Yeah.

That is that I mean, it shouldn't surprise me, but it always kind of does. I just get kinda disappointed. But how did the BC Climate Emergency Campaign manage to get the BC NDP to adopt the 10 actions? 

So it was the provincial council who adopted them, and, basically, I think a lot of organizing had to happen behind the scenes to get that, to get that to happen. It was originally proposed as a resolution by two provincial electoral districts.

So it was brought forward to the provincial council. It got edited, as I mentioned, and then, ultimately, it got adopted. And so it's important to remember that the party itself has a mandate to do the things in our letter because they've adopted our 10 actions. Mhmm. That's awesome.

Yeah. I so I'll mention the the final action that received a failing grade, which was action number 10 to track and report progress on these actions every year. And I've already noted that the BC government has been consistently very slow in sharing their annual greenhouse gas emissions data. So the delay right now is close to two years. We're still waiting for the 2024 climate change accountability report.

And when these annual reports do come out, we're finding that they really overemphasize the partial progress that has been made and largely underemphasize or even omit a lot of the risks that exist on the path to reaching those targets. So for example, they don't talk about the risks to the climate that could result from that are resulting, actually, from increased fracking and LNG expansion. Yeah. I sadly, I'm not surprised to hear about number 10 because all governments in Canada seem to be failing horribly at tracking emissions properly and climate action, including and especially the military, which has done a terrible job at tracking emissions. But I do want to get back to LNG.

So we've discussed it a few times, and I'd love if we could take a step back and learn, you know, what is LNG exactly? Yes. I love talking about this. So first thing I'll say right off the bat, LNG is quite a misleading name. So we're talking about liquefied natural gas here.

But really, we should be talking about fracked gas or methane gas. Because to obtain natural gas, you have to do something called fracking or hydraulic fracturing, whereas, which is basically where you mix enormous amounts of freshwater, which is pulled from nearby rivers and lakes. You mix that with sand and all of these different toxic chemicals. You pump it down a well at incredibly high pressures, which shatters the rock and basically displaces the gas. So this is how we get the natural gas.

And in order to turn that into liquefied natural gas, we have to supercool it, which, well, yeah, which basically results in LNG, which can then be transported via tankers and exported elsewhere. So it's incredibly energy intensive. It uses incredibly toxic chemicals as well, chemicals that then leach into the surrounding groundwater and get into the air. So it's honestly hard to over-emphasize the horrifying impacts of fracking. It's terrible for the environment.

It destroys the farmlands. It uses billions of gallons of water, which might I add, fracking companies are getting for an obscenely low price. And there are so many well-documented health risks as well caused by fracking. And just the last thing I'll say to this point is that all of these impacts are being disproportionately borne by Indigenous communities, rural and remote communities. You know, we're not seeing fracking wells in Downtown Vancouver.

These are existing in Northeastern BC, Northern BC. So I think that the BC government is kind of relying on the out of sight, out of mind type of mindset where, you know, the majority of folks living in urban centers are not really aware of these fracking sites that are all the way up in Northern BC and not aware of the health impacts and not aware of the environmental impacts and not aware of the disproportionate harms that these fracking sites are inflicting on Indigenous communities. Oof. Thank you. Thank you for breaking that down.

What are the different projects that BC is looking at for LNG? There are a lot, unfortunately. I feel I feel like this is the sort of thing we could have a separate episode about. But, yeah, it's not looking good, Erin. There are a number of projects that are, waiting to be approved or have already been approved.

So for example, LNG Canada is beginning operations this year. We also see Coastal Gas Inc now operating. We see Wood Fiber LNG, which is in Squamish, currently under construction and causing all sorts of really horrible environmental and safety concerns already. We have, cedar LNG, which has been approved, and we're currently waiting to see what's going to happen with the PRGT or Prince Rupert gas transmission line as well as the SLISMS LNG export terminal. So there are a number of projects that we're waiting to see what's gonna happen with.

The thing is that if all of these projects are built and come online, BC is not going to meet its climate targets, and we are basically locking ourselves into relying on this fossil fuel infrastructure for decades. So, you know, when you build a pipeline or an export terminal, these things are meant to last decades and decades, and it just absolutely makes no sense at a time when we should be delving into renewables and going all in on solar and hydro and that sort of thing. Why would we be locking ourselves into this fossil fuel infrastructure for years to come? 

Mhmm. And that is the question. And for those of you who are not in British Columbia, we just had a provincial election, with the NDP led by David Eby winning the narrowest of majorities over the BC Conservatives. So, Emiko, did the climate or LNG projects play a role in the BC election, and, have they responded to this report? So to answer your second question first, no, they have not responded. I do know that a number of the media did reach out for comment and did not receive a response. And we also sent the report after its publication to Premier Eby, to a number of cabinet ministers.

And what I did get back was just a kind of generic email from the premier's office saying thank you for sending this, but there has really been no back and forth conversation at this point. In terms of whether the climate or LNG played a role in the election, I think it's really fascinating, Erin, that the NDP and the conservatives are kinda on the same page when it comes to LNG. So Mhmm. Most often you see these two parties not aligned. You see them arguing on almost everything.

But when it comes to natural gas and LNG, for some reason, you have both parties framing it almost as this grand saviour where it's gonna come in and gonna it's gonna save the environment because it's a bridge fuel, and it's gonna get other countries off of coal. And the facilities are gonna be clean because they're net zero, and financially, it's gonna create all these new revenue streams because we're gonna be exporting it. So it's being framed in this really positive light, but I think it's telling that there's so much alignment here between these two parties when it comes to this issue. Not to mention alignment with he who shall not be named down south, who is telling us, you know, he's gonna drill, baby drill, does it not ring alarm bells that we have the BC NDP who frames itself again as a climate leader also going in all in on LNG. Like, that just does not make any sense.

Yeah. I agree. And I think that it really just speaks to the power of, capitalism. And and I think, yeah, that we definitely need more people that are willing to, hold the BC NDP accountable for basically, you know, their dedication to corporations, to false corporations. There are some so one thing that did come up for me when I was just listening to you was that there are some Indigenous nations and communities that do support LNG and other fossil fuel projects on their land and territory specifically.

But Indigenous people are not a monolith, and there have been many Indigenous leaders and activists who've spoken out against this very extractive fossil fuel industry. And I believe that these projects are modern-day colonialism and actually the conquest for Indigenous land for profit specifically. What kind of narratives have you seen the government using to justify these controversial fossil fuel projects on Indigenous land? This is such an important question, Erin, and a really complicated one, I would say. So thank you for bringing this up.

Really, this brings us to the fraught subject of economic reconciliation, which is framing resource extraction as an economic opportunity to supposedly lift Indigenous communities out of poverty and achieve goals around sovereignty and sustainability and green development and all that sort of stuff. And it's it's complicated. And I want to quote Janelle LaPointe, who is a wonderful climate and Indigenous activist and organizer and shout out Janelle. Yeah. Shout out Janelle.

We love you. She talks all about economic reconciliation. You can look look her up. She's written some really wonderful articles about it. She talks about how it's become a buzzword, and we're hearing it used by the very governments and industries that have been polluting and exploiting and colonizing, for for decades and and disconnecting Indigenous communities from their land.

And these very institutions are now turning around and offering opportunities as if that's going to undo those decades, if not centuries, of harm. So, you know, it's incredibly problematic, and and it's a it's a tricky power imbalance at play. And there's also just so many historical factors to consider because as you mentioned, we're starting to see Indigenous owned projects popping up. And I just wanna quote Janelle. She says, of course, Indigenous nations own LNG projects.

What else are we being permitted to own? Certainly not our own land. Right? So this is definitely a nuanced conversation. And another thing that she says is that the Canadian climate movement at large has historically failed to move toward right reciprocal relationships with Indigenous nations, which has resulted in the condemnation of Indigenous nations who support development without nuance, without compassion, without an understanding of the colonial history of the country, the resource industry, and even the failings of the environmental movement.

So this is not a black and white issue. I think we need to really have empathy for the folks the Indigenous folks who feel like they have no other choice than to accept, a stake in these projects. The last thing I'll say is that Indigenous Climate Action also does a great job writing about this. And their take on economic reconciliation is that it destabilizes Indigenous sovereignty by making their communities agents of industry, And I think that's really well put. Yeah.

That's a lot. Thank you so much for that. And it's just so important to have these nuanced conversations. And, yeah, so much respect to Janelle and to ICA, Indigenous Climate Action, and all those groups for, you know, leading this conversation. And I just think we all need to get better at, looking at these nuances and having these difficult conversations and getting better at calling out the government and industry's deceptive framing of fossil fuels that we know are causing harm, and we have scientific evidence, and we have decades of Indigenous leaders and people on the front lines of environmental racism who have been telling us that fossil fuels are causing harm and hurting people and killing people.

So we all need to just get better at holding the government accountable. And, before we wrap up, I just wanted to get a sense of what we're facing in 2025 in terms of the climate emergency and climate action in general. That is a huge question. I don't know what's coming. What I do know is that we just had the hottest year literally on record, the hottest year since we started recording temperatures.

So that is deeply alarming, and we keep smashing temperature records month after month. So if you look at those really scary charts where you see how temperature is going up and down over the years, we are not in a good place right now. The line is going up and up and up quite dramatically. We just saw really devastating and, in fact, deadly wildfires in LA in January. You know, January is not typically a time when we expect to see wildfires devastating our communities, and yet that's just what LA just experienced.

So really scary things already happening in 2025, and we don't know what is gonna come for us in the next twelve months. Unfortunately, we're hearing from politicians in BC that they are not hearing from their constituents about climate anymore. Back in 2019, '20 '20, they were hearing about that from people, but other issues have really come in and taken priority. And, ReClimate does a really great job talking about this trend, and they say that when times get collectively very tough, the tendency for people is to turn inwards, and they focus on the day to day issues. You know, putting food on the table, paying their bills, paying their rent, things like this.

And then when times get better, you see people having more energy and more time to focus on things like addressing the climate crisis. So this is a trend that they are noting, and it's very understandable, obviously, that people are really struggling right now and that, you know, spending your time doing climate activism is not necessarily something that that the majority of people can be dedicating their time to. But that goes back to one of the key messages of the report, which is that climate is costing us. The climate crisis is costing us now. And if we fail to act, the costs are gonna just become astronomical.

The health care costs, grocery costs going up, housing, it's all related. And we need to be drawing those connections all the time in the conversations we're having with people, with our friends and family, drawing those links between climate and affordability. And I just wanna also take us back to the 600 signatories of the BC Climate Emergency Campaign because this is really significant and something to celebrate. I think it's so easy to get bogged down by the magnitude of the climate crisis. We're seeing numbers dropping in terms of how many people are listing climate in their top priorities.

But just remember, at least 2,200,000 British Columbians truly understand that climate change is an emergency, that this is a crisis, and they're demanding more action. Yeah. Honestly, that's so great. And that's exactly what this podcast is about too is about, you know, talking about the climate emergency and exposing the climate emergency and government government's inaction on the climate emergency. And it does feel really encouraging to know that more people are standing together to meet this crisis head on because we know what we need to do, and the government needs to know that we're not gonna back down until they actually take real climate action.

So as far as you know, are there many climate centered organizations in BC? There are so, so many, big ones and small ones and everything in between. And a number of them are involved with the BC climate emergency campaign. That being said, we recognize that, you know, no single group is going to be able to to push the government on its own. And if we were to limit our members to only, so called climate activists or environmental advocacy groups and NGOs, then we would really not have the strength and the power that we need to win on these fights.

So from the beginning, it's been a priority of ours to bring in dozens of different sectors. So we have campaign members who are doctors and nurses and posing advocates and business owners and faith leaders and labour union leaders, and the list goes on and on. And it's honestly really heartwarming and amazing to see all these sectors coming together and voicing their shared concern about this issue. And that's really something that I've seen so clearly in this role as coordinator of the campaign is that everybody is impacted by the changing climate in one way or another. They all have their own experiences and own stories.

And, you know, everybody takes different approaches to addressing addressing the climate crisis. And this diversity is really where we get our strength from, and it enables us to access the expertise and lived experience of folks from all over this province who are working on finding their own sorts of solutions to the crisis. Yeah. It feels amazing to know that there's so many great people working on this. So I'm so glad to hear of, you know, all of the different groups that are coming together because climate justice is not just for people who are interested in climate change.

You know, we really -- I think, as the climate movement, we need to get better at welcoming more people in. And I think that there have been a lot of moves to do that recently, and that's great. So I guess on that note, how can people get involved with the BC Climate Emergency Campaign? So if you're listening to this and you are not yet a signatory, then my task for you is to go onto our website. If you're a part of any organization or group or business, you can become a signatory.

So, unfortunately, at this time, we aren't accepting individual sign-ons, but, honestly, any group, any business is welcome to sign on. So, essentially, you will just go to our website, click the take action button, and then you'll automatically get added to our newsletter to stay up to date on what we're up to. And, you know, the last thing I'll say, Erin, is that if you're listening to this podcast, I assume that you must have some sort of interest in climate action. So I think I'll just encourage you to keep talking about that with the people in your life and help people draw those connections. Katharine Hayhoe does a really amazing job of this, and she says that no matter what people's interests are or their hobbies, there's always a way to link that back to climate.

Maybe they love wine or they are a skier. You know, there's always a way to link it back, and we need to be drawing those connections more. We need to be talking about the connections between militarism and climate change, you know, bringing in the conversation around war. The environmental damage that we're seeing in G*z* is absolutely mind-boggling. That devastation is going to be lasting for years.

You know, think about all the toxins and the horrible chemicals coming out of the b*mbs and leaching into the groundwater and all of that. And so that's where I'll end things. Just keep talking about this. Keep doing your part in whatever way you can, whether it's big or small because everything matters. Yeah.

Thank you, Emiko. That was such a such a good point to end on. And I just wanna add, yeah, you know, ec*cide, g*n*cide, the m*litary *ndustr*al complex, these are all things that are deeply connected and they impact us even here all the way in British Columbia. And so, yeah, I agree with you. There are many ways to talk about climate with people in our everyday life because climate impacts all of us, and some of us at different levels.

So thank you. Yes. Sorry. The last thing that I wanted to say, just a quick plug, is, again, please check out the progress report on our website and take it to your MLA. That's what we're advocating for right now in these next few months is getting people to bring the report to their MLA, walk them through it, really make the case that that British Columbians care about this issue because we don't want our MLAs to be able to say any longer that they're not hearing from folks on about climate anymore.

We need to show them that that's not true. We need to show them that people across the entire province truly are advocating for stronger climate action. So if that's something you're interested in, I would really encourage you to take that action. And feel free to reach out at any time if you would like some support with how to meet with your MLA. That's such a good reminder.

And, yes, don't be scared of meeting with your MLA. If they say they haven't heard enough from us about climate, then we need to be way louder. But, also, I'm not sure if I really buy that, if I'm being completely honest. I personally am loud all the time and always bother my MLA and MP. But maybe we need more of us.

We need more of us doing that. So yeah. Thank you so much, Amiko, for coming and being the first guest on our podcast. It was so great to have you here, and we'll have links to all of the BC Climate Emergency Campaign information and the report and all of the other things in the episode notes. So for you listeners out there, make sure to rate, review, subscribe, and recommend this podcast to a friend.

Yeah. Thank you for tuning in to Break in Case of Emergency. And before we go, I have one final thing. I want to end this episode with a quote from our team lead, Seth Klein, in his book called A Good War. So Seth says, “while we do indeed live in a time of uncertainty and high anxiety, there is always hope. The new and beautiful world we crave may be closer than we think.” Thank you so much for listening everyone. We'll see you next time. 

Thanks, Erin. Thanks, everybody. Bye.

Episode 2

Hello and welcome to Breaking Case of Emergency, a podcast about mobilizing Canada for the climate crisis with audacious solutions rooted in justice and workers' rights. I'm Erin Blondeau and this is our second episode. Today we're gonna talk all about the Ontario election with some really exciting and inspirational guests, but let's get some context first about this crazy moment that we find ourselves in. So we've got a prorogued parliament after Justin Trudeau stepped down as prime minister. We've got a leadership race in the federal Liberal Party.

We have Trump threatening tariffs at our border and a potential coup in The United States led by the brolagarchy and the world's richest man, AKA Elon Musk. And here in Canada, Ontario Premier Doug Ford made things even more interesting by calling for a provincial election sixteen months early. So Ford has come out as this captain team Canada guy in the face of Trump's threat of annexation and tariffs on various Canadian products and we've probably all at this point seen Ford's Canada is not for sale trucker hat and interestingly how this seems to be resonating with people online. All of this is coming at a time that is seemingly convenient for sidestepping the RCMP investigations into the Green belt scandal, which we might touch on in a little bit. But despite all of the controversies, Ford's progressive conservatives look like they're well ahead in the polls.

So to unpack what's going on in Ontario politics and to unpack the climate justice issues at this critical moment, we've got three really awesome guests with us today. So let's take a minute and meet our guests. Bushra, let's start with you. Do you wanna introduce yourself? Yeah.

Hi, Erin. Thank you so much for having me here today. My name is Bushra Esker. I am one of the campaign co leads for the National Campaign for a Youth Climate Corps, and I get to work with, all the lovely people in this chat in different capacities. And I'm gonna pass it on to Karishma.

Thank you, Bushra, and thank you, Erin, for having me. My name is Karishma. I also go by Karishma Climate Girl. I create content on social media and now more so, like, main mainstream media channels as well about climate policy, sustainability, and, yeah, the scene in Canada in general when it comes to climate change. So that's a little bit about me.

I'll pass it over to Zoe. Hello. My name is Zoe Keri Matzner. I'm, thank thank you very much for having me. I've been, working in, like, volunteer climate activism since I was 12 years old, and I'm a part of a lawsuit, the Mather et al et al climate lawsuit against the Ontario government for their failure to act accordingly on the climate crisis.

Okay. Great to have you all here. Thank you so much for joining us. So, Zoe, I'd love to start with you and I would love to hear more about the court case that you've been involved with. So from what I understand, the Ontario Supreme Court tried to dismiss your case in 2023, but then the Ontario Court of Appeal ordered a new hearing last year, which is great.

And now it seems like it may be heard from the Supreme Court of Canada. So Zoe, can you break down this kind of legalese and let us know where the court case is at? Yeah. So first, I thought I'd give sort of an introduction to how the case started. So it started back in 2019, when the Ford government came into power and they scrapped the previous government's climate targets.

And their new target would let, like, a dangerous amount of emissions into the atmosphere, and violate what the science says we need to be doing. And so the court case was based on, argued that this was a violation of youth's charter rights to life and security of the pew person. We also argued that this was discrimination against young people, especially indigenous young people. And this case has been going for a very long time. There were several legal hurdles that we had to overcome.

Back in 2020 we overcame a motion to strike which was the first time a canadian court said that we can argue that climate change violates charter rights in 2022 we went to the ontario superior court While the court there disagreed with us, they they agreed with most of our facts, and so we appealed. The Ontario superior court in 2023 did rule in our favor, as you mentioned, but they didn't give us a final decision. And so now, after a series of legal steps, we are going to be going to the Canadian Supreme Court or potentially back to a lower court in Ontario. We're still waiting for the legal legal system to work that out. But, yeah, I'm optimistic as to where our case is right now, and I think that over time, Ontario's defenses are looking pretty weak, in comparison to our arguments.

Thank you so much for updating us on that. And I yeah. I hope that you can continue to update us as it goes along. And for those of us who don't live in Ontario or who just might not be up to date on everything, let's take a couple of minutes to go over the each of the party's stances on climate. So, Karishma, maybe you can start us off by addressing what we should know about the Conservatives' track record, and then maybe we can get into, like, the liberals, the NDP, and the Greens.

Okay. So, yeah, let's talk about the conservatives' track record as opposed to their platform just because I feel like a track record speaks volumes as to what they're able and willing to do as opposed to what they're promising to do, which is we know a lot of the time, politicians don't always make make their promises, I guess, and then keep them. So Doug Ford, the man of the moment in the worst possible way. Let's talk about Doug Ford and his ties to the fossil fuel industry up first. So fossil fuel giants like Enbridge supply Ontario homes with gas, and gas, as we know, is a fossil fuel even though people call it natural gas.

There's been groups trying to rebrand it as fossil gas because it is a fossil fuel at the end of the day. Doug Ford allows fossil fuel giants like Enbridge to build infrastructure in our communities and also doesn't make them pay for it. Like, this makes no sense. Other provinces like BC, Manitoba, and Nova Scotia, they charge fossil fuel companies like Enbridge a fee to put in pipes in our neighborhoods because, of course, they are making money off of us. Right?

And this money could go straight into transit or housing or schools. However, Doug Ford simply chooses not to do that. He basically allows Enbridge to have their cake and eat it too. Right? Like, he he allows Enbridge to get rich off of us without having to pay for it.

Makes no sense. It's like, whose side are you on, dude? It it it's really quite obvious. So that's one of the things that I think the conservatives in Ontario need to be questioned on in terms of their allegiances to the fossil fuel industry. Do you want me to get into talking about some other points like transit, traffic, cars?

Yeah. Let's hear it. Let's let's hear briefly about transit for sure. Okay. We can talk about how Ontarians get around.

Like, we're pretty car dependent. Promise, transport emissions are actually the biggest source of emissions in Ontario if you look at the numbers. And if you own a car, you know, that's not entirely your fault. It's not like we have gold standard transit or biking options, options, but we're we're getting there. And the issue is that that getting there, the progress that we've made, Doug Ford is actively trying to undo.

Right? I mean, he's ripping up bike lanes. Bill two one two. He wants to use our taxpayer dollars to rebuild existing bike lanes, let alone having the conversation around building more bike lanes. You know, bike lanes, they take cars off the road.

You know, they they reduce emissions. They reduce pollution. They're a climate solution. But they also keep people safe. They keep people alive.

Right? Like, bike infrastructure saves lives. We know this. And we also, like, the number support the fact that bike lanes also alleviate traffic. So and and they're an equity issue.

Like, not everyone can afford a car or to put gas in their car or pay for monthly finance payments or or lease payments, whatever it might be. So Doug Ford is actively undoing all of that work that we've done. And let's not forget that this specifically, this bike lanes issue is an overreach of government. Right? Bike lanes are a municipal issue.

Doug Ford should have no say as a provincial premier. He should have no say in whether cities choose to put in bike lanes, remove them, or whatever they choose to do with a city's own infrastructure. So this is a government overreach, which we should all be concerned about. The provincial government should not be meddling in municipal matters. Like, when does he then come after our parks and rec?

When does he come after our libraries? You know, things are that are city level issues. And then if we talk about transit, like, I I heard that he's he's promised a a go two point o, Metrolinx two point o, expanding rail tracks, expanding service. But it's like, we don't even have the Eglinton Crosstown yet. We don't even have all day two way go service to Kitchener, which was which was promised ten years ago.

So it's like, why would I believe what you're gonna say if you haven't even made made good with the promises that you've that you've made so far. That's like asking someone to make your wedding cake that's never even baked a cupcake before. Right? So what's he offering instead? He's offering highways.

If you've driven on the 401, which is Ontario's main sort of artery, I would sooner stand in line at a service Ontario. Like, I would sooner shovel snow in a snowstorm than sit in traffic on the 401. And what he wants to do is make more of these highways. He wants to make the 413, which will rip through the green belt, our farmland, put endangered species at risk, the list goes on. And the numbers, again, tell us that the 413 won't alleviate traffic.

It's gonna save drivers around thirty seconds of time, right, and and yet present so many huge environmental challenges. And so that's that's kind of the lowdown when it comes to transit. Disappointing. Not just disappointing. It almost feels like a betrayal from the Ontario PC, to be completely honest.

Yeah. Definitely. That absolutely sounds like a betrayal. Okay, so that sounds really bleak, and horrible, but maybe we can talk a little bit about the NDP and see where do they stand on climate? Kershma, can you tell us a little bit more about maybe like the NDP climate platform as well?

For sure. I can speak to how about I speak to the NDP and the Liberals here, Erin? Because I feel like these are our middle ground parties in Ontario. I took a brief look at their platforms, and I think that the platforms are really important to explore because this is really the only resource that's available for voters who are considering voting for a party that's not already in power. Right?

Because for the conservatives, you can look at their track record. For the liberals, NDP, and Greens, you can really only look at what they're promising. So the liberals are, for, you know, a few points. They're promising more policing on transit, which is like, okay. Is that a long term solution?

Is that really what we want? Or they're they're thinking of doubling the ODSP, which is great. They have a tariff relief. Just to so they're they're looking to put more police on transit. Is that what you mean?

That's right. That's right. Wow. Yeah. And, Bonnie Crombie's made that quite clear in her platform as well.

They're looking to double ODSB. They're they have this tariff relief plan. Right? Like, again, these are all very reactionary sort of points that they've made. They're all short term solutions.

They're not tackling the root of the problem. They're not tackling the root of the inequities that exist across Ontario. And with the NDP, you know, they're getting closer to the root of the problem. Sure. They're offering a monthly grocery rebate.

They're they had a they had a section on grocery, which I found was really interesting considering rising grocery prices affect us all. Right? They had the section on stopping price gouging. They're saying we're gonna increase transparency. And, again, is that the root of the problem, or are we looking to tax billionaires like Galen Weston Mhmm.

For price gouging us? So it just all felt sort of half baked to me. So and neither the Liberals nor the NDP had made overt climate commitments. You know? There's a lot of things mentioned around transit, around affordable housing that could be climate solutions if done right.

But the fact that climate change wasn't mentioned as the emergency that faces us all today, like, it wasn't treated with that regard in either of these platforms was disappointing. Mhmm. And what about the Greens? Yeah. So I'll be I'll be honest.

Like, I've been affiliated and associated with the Green Party just, like, as a volunteer. So I have a little bit more knowledge on the Green Party of Ontario, so I'll just kind of make that disclaimer upfront. I live in a green riding kitchener centre. We have a green MPP and a green MP, actually, which is pretty cool. Yeah.

And I think the Green Party of Ontario is definitely doing a better job. And I know my MPP quite well. Her name is Ashlyn Clancy. She, like, lives a block away from me, and I always see her involved with community events. And I've asked her point blank questions about where she stands on certain things, which I think is what we all need to be doing.

Right? Kind of stepping away from the party politics and moving a step closer to people politics and asking our local representatives that represent our neighbors and our cities what their vision is for Ontario. But the Green Party, they're trying to make it cheaper to make more environmentally friendly choices. So free heat pumps, removing HST on solar panels, EV chargers, things like that. They actually mention truth and reconciliation in their platform, which is like, oh, why didn't the other three parties do that at first glance?

You know, this is interesting. They had a whole section on it. They wanna make moves on electoral reform, which is why we find ourselves in this sticky situation in the first place, which is why Doug Ford keeps getting elected, is because we have this first past the post system, super antiquated, not reflective of what the majority want. So they have a section on electoral reform. And they have actually good housing policy, like building housing density near transit, like reversing the provincial planning statement, which, is associated with the with the conservative party, which really made it easier for developers to sprawl and create those McMansions that aren't affordable for anybody.

And then they have their no free ride for fossil fuels bill, which they've introduced, which addresses the point I was making earlier around Doug Ford allowing fossil fuel companies like Enbridge to have their cake and eat it too, like, to just put pipes through our communities and not have to pay for them. So they're trying to oppose that. I I found that there were good specific points in the Green Party's platform, that I felt resonated more with me than the other three. Mhmm. Thank you so much for giving us that that rundown.

And, Bushra, yeah, did you have something to add? Yeah. I just I mean, listening to Karishma made me think of just this something that I've been really, like, thinking about for the past week, as this election has been called. It's just like the state of democracy and and like just like we're in an extreme state of, like, democratic decay, you know? And I think that, we could honestly look at this election, how Ford has called it as almost like a tactic of voter suppression.

You know, a February election, we have frigid temperatures out there, massive, massive snowstorms. Doug Ford won his last election with with the lowest voter turnout in Ontario and is expecting to, sweep yet another majority, super majority in in the legislator because it's a February, because folks had less than a month to organize. And, you know, it's February 13 today. And it's funny because, folks have been voting since January 30. And a lot of places, places that I come from, for example, the 905, haven't had candidates.

You know? So how is this a democracy that's functioning in a healthy manner in in in, like, anyone's textbook. So, yeah, I would I would make an argument that this, like, both yeah. It it screams voter suppression. Well, I was just gonna say, you know, on that note in terms of democracy, why has Ford called an election now?

You know, I've I've seen him using nationalist messaging and kind of this Canada First narrative as a counter to Trump's tariffs and threats of annexation. What do you think about that? Like, what what is the deal with this? You know, he he was in Trump's camp, and now he's kind of acting like he's the anti Trump guy. What's the deal with that?

Yeah. I think that's exactly why, Aaron. I think I think he wants to capitalize on this moment of nationalism that we're all feeling, and I think we are all feeling it to an extent. Trump is the big bad guy. And I heard that that make, sorry.

I was about to say make. I was a great oh my gosh. My brain is mush. I heard that that hat he was wearing, Canada's not for sale, sold 50,000 units, right, after he was picture wearing. Crazy.

I bet it was made in America. Yeah. Right? Right? I bet it wasn't even made in made in Canada.

Yeah. We'll have to fact check that one. Surprised. Let's fact check that. But you know what's interesting?

I read an article earlier this month that a hot mic sort of picked up on Doug Ford before the tariffs had hit saying that he was a % happy with Donald Trump being elected. I think someone asked him, how did you feel on election day when election day happened in The States when Trump was elected? He said, yeah. I was I was a % happy, and then he backstabbed us. So let's think about that for a second.

Right? Like, he's only mad at Trump because he's exercising these tariffs, imposing these tariffs upon us as opposed to all the other sort of environmental rollbacks, women's rights rollbacks. Human AI could go on. So all of that was okay with Ford. It was only the tariffs that he has a problem with.

Does that resonate with Canadian values? Yeah. And and I would just add, I think it's, he's counting on the fatigue and exhaustion, of people just not turning out. I think that's just such a such a main goal, central thing for him to be calling this election right now. He knows folks are gonna be heading to the polls quite soon for a federal election, to send basically one of the the, yeah, the most populous provinces in the country, to the polls back to back, is is extremely exhausting.

You know? We're not Switzerland. We are not California. We're not a a a nation of people that, you know, practices democracy at a very, very high level. Just the act of voting once every four years gets people super, super exhausted.

And so to send folks to the polls back to back, you know, in in two elections, is is he's counting on people not turning up. Mhmm. And for its voters, conservative, let's, like, think about this on a bit of a more micro level, if if if you will, can afford to get to the polls. Like, conservative voters tend to have bigger homes, higher incomes, a car. Right?

They can drive themselves to the polls. Like, if we have a snowstorm on February 27 like we did today in parts of Ontario, so many people who rely on transit, who rely on active transportation like walking and cycling cannot get to the polls. So this works in his favor, calling this winter election. Mhmm. It is insidious in so many ways.

Yeah. That's such a great point, Krishna. And, Zoe, I'd love to pass to you for a second. How how do you think that the Ontario election and all of the context that we've just been talking about, how does that impact your court case and and the various kind of climate activism that you have going on? Yeah.

I mean, I think my court case is gonna go ahead no matter, no matter what happens. In the likely chance that Ford wins, we'll just keep going. If he does get defeated, we're still probably gonna be there to see what the next party's climate platform is and if it continues to not match with what science tells us to do. But, yeah, I just wanna tune in and, like, I really agree with what other people are saying about the sort of, like, like, exhaustion that is in, like, volunteer grassroots movements right now. I last provincial election, I was really tuned in, for this amazing campaign called not one seat, which is looking to, defeat Ford via coalition between the Liberals, NDP, and Greens, in different ridings and, like, strategically trying to out outvote the conservatives and this election I mean I've been feeling it like it's hard to feel the the drive or the motivation to keep volunteering.

And also, like, within the activist networks themselves, like, our, like, our online spaces are quiet. There's less people on the ground. A lot of people are just, I think, feeling a bit beaten down yeah I mean definitely and on that on the topic of volunteering and just exhaustion I did want to also talk about ford's announcement of the ontario corps So, I don't know why it shouldn't be shocking to me, but every time politicians make these horrendously exploitative decisions, I am just always dismayed. And so for those of you who might not know, the Ontario Corps, was announced a few months ago and it is a volunteer based program to respond to disasters and emergency situations in Ontario. And Bushra and I, as well as a few other climate emergency unit team members, have written about how the Ontario Corps is an exploitative program that it seeks to use unpaid youth labor to solve the problems that the government has created or failed to address.

So I would love if we could just, like, talk a little bit about the Ontario Corps, what you think about it, and how that compares to the campaign for a youth climate corps. Yeah. Absolutely. And actually, Erin, it's it's exactly the two month mark. I believe it was it was announced on the December 13.

So that's kind of the anniversary, one could say, two two month anniversary. Yeah. I mean, off the bat, I think as someone who's been working on the national campaign for a youth climate corps, it quite honestly felt like the premiere, plagiarized your homework. It felt like he basically just ripped a piece of our campaign and, materialized the worst version of it. Basically, like, like for us, it was like almost from our nightmares.

Like, it was like our worst possible, yeah, our worst possible, thoughts coming to life. But exactly as you said that exactly as you said, you know, it's so Ford's Ontario Corps is, trying to organize volunteers to respond to emergencies and natural disasters. And he's working in a not for profit model. So he's, like, bringing together nonprofits like, you know, Feed Ontario and Salvation Army and Global Medic and Search and Rescue, voluntary, voluntary association of Ontario. And basically, using young, like, young people, but just in general, people's labor, unpaid labor to respond to climate emergencies.

And, specifically, you know, doing, like, flood response and mitigation work. Those are like, floods are kind of the the main climate natural disaster that, like, folks in Ontario face. So doing wellness checks during emergency response, like all that kind of fun stuff. And this is how it relates to the national campaign for youth climate corps. So in the national campaign for youth climate corps, we are calling for the federal government to create this two year long job training program that anyone 35 and under could, you know, apply and sign up and get paid training.

Paid training that would lead to a long term career pathway. And we're really pushing for the government to, like, lead instead of kind of depending on this not for profit model. Not saying that not nonprofits can't be a part of it. Like, for sure, we you know, I mean, everyone is a part of it, but really for this to be state led for these jobs to be public for this to be like a public jobs program. And, and for the, the training to be two year long so that, you know, it's, it's really, we're, there's a lot of like four month summer internships that exist for youth out there.

But there's really nothing that, like, the length really matters for us because it means that you're actually adequately training young people because things like public safety are not a joke. You know, this this is a serious matter. And what the Ontario Corps does is it actually gets at, like, one of the buckets of our national vision for youth climate corps. So in the in the vision for our national youth climate corps, we envision three buckets of jobs that young people would be trained in. So there's a first bucket that the Ontario core is getting at, which is the emergency preparedness and response work.

So flood response, flood mitigation, wildfire fighting, low carbon care work that's done during this time. Then there's, like, the second bucket, which is jobs that would be strengthening our resilience, our community resilience to the crisis. So anything from restoring the ecosystem, conservation, managing forests. And then there's a third bucket, which is honestly, in my opinion, one of the most important ones, which are jobs that we immediately require training in to bring our everyday greenhouse gas emissions down. So the massive work of building our public transit infrastructure of, you know, building out a high speed rail of, retrofitting our cities, like, this is really like the task ahead of us.

And instead of investing into, solving, you know, the crisis of, a ten year high youth unemployment rate and, like, the the massive, the escalating climate induced weather events, Ford has decided yet again to basically kind of create this, like, exploitative, gimmicky program. He's investing a hundred and $13,000,000 into this. And I'm like, okay. If you're not paying the young people doing the work, then where is the money going? I couldn't find any information on that.

And yeah. So it's like asking young people who are already dealing with, like, multiple crises to do more unpaid labor, which is wild when there is already an offer, an alternative at the table. You know, he could come to the table and be, like, the announcement for the Ontario Corps literally stated, Ontario makes history as the first province to mobilize. I mean, he could come to the table and and do that in in in an authentic way, in, like, a real, like, I'm solving a problem way, which would be coming to the table and and being the first province in the country to cross match a national youth climate corps. And that would that would, like, help solve so many different things.

You know, like, it could it could be the it could be part of the employment response to the tariff threat. You know, what would help when we're hit with massive tariffs and already unemployed youth are or or, like, lots lots more young people lose their jobs is a public jobs program. Like, that could be the economic advantage that we need. It could give us, you know, strategic strategic advantage. It could bring economic security to young people.

But here's the Ford government expecting young people to do free labor once again. Mhmm. Krishna, what what's your reaction to that? I mean, kind of exactly what Bushra mentioned hits the nail on the head. How are you expecting people to work for free in this economy?

Really, though, so many of our challenges have been made worse by the Ford government, including affordable housing. No one can really afford their rent. Ford could put in rent control. He doesn't. Grocery prices shooting through the roof, unaffordable transit.

And then he's like, here's a volunteer program where you don't get paid. And, yeah, Bushra is right. Tariffs threaten us. And if he's gonna be this, you know, tariff ninja warrior, then where's the public jobs program? Where where's how is he equipping us to fight back?

Right? I think it's really interesting, in my circles at least, I I've been involved with this campaign, here and there, but, of course, not as much as you and Bushra. But in my circles, I I'm seeing and hearing frustration from young people because they feel a lack of purpose, and they're feeling like they have to fight and compete for those, quote, unquote, good green jobs. I mean, imagine being one of the few people that have the desire to dedicate their career to a pretty difficult space. Like, it's a difficult space working in the climate sector.

It is, for lack of a better word, depressing at times. Right? So imagine being one of the few that's like, you know what? I don't wanna work for a corporation. I wanna work in the climate space and still finding nothing.

Imagine the good that a public jobs program could do in that space. Right? Feel like people want to work in green jobs. Like, a couple of years ago, Bushra and I hosted this, like, climate careers and coffee event in Toronto, and a bunch of people came. We had so many good chats about climate careers, green jobs, what it takes to get into the field.

And I spoke to a lot of people that had so much heart and so much enthusiasm for these spaces, but were still struggling to find employment that aligned with their values. So something like this could really change the game for Ontarians. But alas, we get a volunteer program, which as great as it might be working in the climate sector, we still have to put food on the table. Yeah. That's that's so true.

And Zoe, what how do you envision something like a youth climate corps instead of a volunteer based program like an Ontario Corps? How would you envision a youth climate corps serving communities of Ontario, especially in the face of this trade war that could severely cripple the manufacturing sector. Yeah. I mean, exactly. Like, the the thing about this is that the idea of a youth climate core is such an amazing policy on so many fronts, and Florida has just taken it and turned it into such a terrible policy when there's so much opportunity that has just gone out the window.

A youth clinic would be really incredible for so many reasons. It's gives people genuinely good well paying jobs and there are so many young people who would genuinely love to get a good green job like most of my friends if this program was currently existing, almost all of my friends would probably be in it. There's so much appetite for it. And the, and it also it built a sense of unity, I think, that we really need, and unity among and solidarity among workers and young people, people who care about the climate crisis, the the people who are gonna be most affected by the climate crisis, that's something that we're lacking right now, and that would really help our movement, would really help ordinary people. And so the idea that we're gonna turn this back once again to grassroots unpaid volunteer organizing, I don't think Doug Ford understands how hard it is to be a volunteer and to, like, put so much effort in day in day out because you care so so much, and then to get nothing, like, no nothing financial back.

Yeah. I think it's sort of a juxtaposition between how beautiful, Ontario Climate Corps, Corps could be and what we're getting. Yeah. And that definitely just feels like it's a theme, in terms of political policy all across the country and especially in Ontario. So pivoting back to the provincial election specifically, is climate even on the radar for people in Ontario right now?

When, you know, so many people are looking at the cost of housing and health care and cost of living in general? Do you do you think that people that climate is still up there in the list of important things that people are caring about? Bushra, I'll pass that to you. Yeah. Sorry.

I just wanna take this moment to complain about this thing that I absolutely hate, which is when people try to get me to rank my issues. And I, like, I I've always hated this. And maybe that's just because, like, I'm, like, a young brown woman. You know? Like, I'm, like, what do you mean?

Like, how like, for me, all of these issues are so inherently interconnected. You know? And so, really, anytime people are, like, do you care about housing more than climate, or do you care about education more than indigenous issues? And and for me, these are just so inherently connected. And this is, like, one of the reasons why I just I just hate how we operate and how we move, like, in in in in the mainstream.

Because yeah. Like, I think, unfortunately, the frames and, like, how people talk about these things matter. And so climate is definitely I mean, I don't wanna speak for Kirishma or Zoe, but at least in in in the areas that I come from in Ontario, like, people don't talk about climate, but that doesn't mean that they don't care or that it's not you know, like, especially, like, my family. Like, they won't bring it up, but, like, we have so many relatives in Bangladesh and in Pakistan and, like, who who are really, like, at the front lines of being wiped out in my lifetime because of this crisis. So you bet they care.

Right? It's just about how and when that comes up. And so I think, like, this whole, like yeah, I just I really, really dislike the ranking of issues. Like, it just, like, hits me in a really bad way. And then the same thing with, like, housing.

Right? Like, it's really hard when people cannot put food on the table. Right? And that is where the right like, the average Ontarian cannot make rent. They cannot put food on the table.

Like, we're seeing homelessness, like, double. We're see like, things are really, like, rough out there right now for for the average Ontarian. And all of this is, you know, even even worse when you're, like, disaggregating data by, like, race or by, like, by different things. And so, yeah, of course, people are not gonna be like, I just in the way that we operate, we are so shortsighted. Electoral cycles are all about shortsighted issues.

And so it's like, this is not something they care about imminently, but the folks that are already struggling the most that are talking about bread and butter issues are also going to be the ones that are impacted the highest because of the climate crisis. And so I feel like it it it this is why, for example sorry. I'm just I'm I'm kind of a broken record. This is why I love the youth climate core because it is this, like, innovative policy solution that's multifaceted. And, honestly, this is the job of policy makers.

Right? This is the job of politicians to come up with policies that answer multiple problems at once instead of asking the average citizen to pick a top priority. And and if only they could do their jobs and and give us multiple different policies like a youth climate corps that answer multiple issues in, like, one perfect package. Yeah. I think, honestly, that is so true, and it's such a good point to make because climate change transcends all borders.

It transcends all, aspects of our lives. And, you know, even in polling, even in election polling, for some reason, the environment and climate is, like, listed as a separate thing. And so the way even the questions are worded, of course, people are gonna rank it, quote, unquote, lower than other things. And and then, you know, parties seem to sometimes make policy around these these kind of false polling narratives. So, yeah, I think that's a really, really great point to bring up.

And, yeah, Zoe, I'd love to get your thoughts on this as well. Yeah. I mean, I think, like, even if a poll says that people rank climate change lower, I think it's that people do care. It's just they don't have really an outlet to care that is sort of mainstream like you can't sure you could do climate activism but most people don't have time for that and it's it's pushed away into some sort of theoretical space and that we just see on our phones or in the news. But the thing about youth climate corps is it would bring it down into people's genuine working lives and on like a public mainstream level, that gives people an outlet for all that they care about.

So even if people don't say that they care a lot about climate change, right now, that might not mean exactly that. Yes. That is such a good point, Zoe. And, Kershma, did you have anything that you wanted to add to that as well? Honestly, I think Bushra and Zoe covered it all.

Bushra made a great point about things being shortsighted when it comes to today's politics game, and I think education is a big part of that around educating people how high grocery prices and unaffordable housing are all tied to climate change in the long run. Right? But because climate change is a slow burn, even though we're all feeling the effects of it, right, it is still a slow burn at the end of the day. It doesn't hit as hard as $6 for eggs. There's education work that's needed in making people aware that it is indiscriminate, and it will come for us all in different ways.

So that that that piece is specifically what I try to do with my work, like the dots that I try to connect at least. But agreed, climate should be on people's minds, but the system under which we live makes it so difficult for people to think and worry about 12 different things at the same time. Lots of different people have talked about having a limited finite amount of empathy and how it's difficult to have empathy for, again, like 12 different things when you're struggling to hold it together yourself. Right? So we have systematically designed it for it to be difficult for people to care about climate change.

But I think, again, there is education and awareness work that needs to be done to help people connect the dots. Thank you. That's such a good point. And, you know, I know that our conversation is kind of coming to a close here, but I do just wanna continue on that point and talking about, you know, the exhaustion and, the empathy fatigue sometimes that people can feel. So before we go, I just wanna check-in with each of you.

How are you doing in these times and, you know, what keeps you going? What what inspires you to continue doing this work? I find a lot of hope and inspiration from baddies like you all. Truly, I I I mean yeah. Yeah.

Like, I think the work that Krishna does, Zoe, the fact that you've been an organizer basically since you were 12, like, what? Like, honestly. And and Aaron just yeah. You're you're just, you know, your columns, your your writing. And, yeah.

So I would say that I I find a lot of hope and inspiration in the people around me who who are doing really, really awesome things. And and also in in, like, the generations of of folks who've gone before us that have, like, worked in social movements. You know, like my grandma I mean, no. Sorry. My grandma was not a social movement organizer, but really like, okay.

So one thing that's like always stuck with me, but, she has said, quote, unquote, I I was not alive for this, but, you know, she like lived through multiple mass migrations. And, like, when she finally, like, ended up in present day Karachi, she was just like, I'm not moving one more time. And if they try to make me move, I'm going to the sea. And she was just a body. And so I feel like for me, my source of inspiration really lies in like, yeah, like in, in in the people around me, in my ancestral lineage, and, like, just like, yeah, the family that I come from and, like, all they've done for me to make sure that I can do advocacy, you know, here in a safe way.

Like, that's wild. Like, so many people couldn't be having the conversation that we're having in the places that they live in. And and yeah. And I think that's, like, something that I really see a difference in. Like, I grew up in a military dictatorship, and, you know, our democracy is not perfect in Canada.

And like, I have so many critiques, but I really don't think people understand what they've got. And I think that's, that's, that's also what drives me, you know, I think maybe having experienced not that, like, I know what it's like to not have this. And so for me, it's really just a responsibility and something that I hold really close. And I I've said this multiple times and I say it all the time is it's like, if you don't use the power you have, you concede it, you know? And and voting is like that.

Like, it may it electoral stuff, like, whatever you may not see, that may not be your theory of change, but do not concede that. Like, go vote. Use use that, you know, circus for for your advantage because you bet that people, like billionaires and and your bosses and landlord corp corporate landlords. Like, they're using that system for sure. While while you are like, oh, no.

Like, this is useless. So, yeah, that that's what keeps me inspired. Thanks, Bushra. And Zoe, what what keeps you inspired and what keeps you going in these times? Yeah.

I mean, everything Bushra said. But also, like, for me, I think it's also there's moments where it's really hard, but then there's also moments where you see the potential for things that really drives me. Like, seeing the potential for youth climate core, and seeing all the people who are really energized and excited to work on it. And just, like, moments where you realize how many people genuinely do care or genuinely do think that would be a great policy no matter what their personal politics are. It it makes me feel like, well, it's very hard to try to advocate for things.

We could create something wonderful, and I think that's worth that's worth trying to achieve. I love that. Karishma, what about you? Definitely I think echoing some of the some of the other sources of hope that we've already talked about. The people around me, Bushra Riley sang our praises, so I honestly feel like we should also sing her.

She's this baddie in her words, also organizer, bringing people together from all sides of the country, and is sort of like that radical voice that we all need in an era of really placated people when it comes to politics. And so that's a breath of fresh air, but for me especially, plugging into my community, plugging into literally the streets outside my home, and going and canvassing with my local political party that I am lined with, and writing for my local paper, and going to the Butte before council in my city, and seeing change happen on a small level. Recently, my friends and I in Kitchener Waterloo were able to campaign to get our night bus back, route 91, which was canceled. And so we all went and deputed before council. I reported on it for the paper.

We were organizing across party lines, and it's one bus. Right? Like, it's not gonna stop the Amazon from burning down. It's one bus, but it means that some cars are taken off the road. It feels that some people feel safer going home at night, late night shift workers, students who are partying, whoever it might be, they don't need to order an Uber.

It made a difference in our community. Right? And now I see the 91, I'm like, freak yeah. That's that was our advocacy work. And so, you know what?

Little wins are so worth it. And, I would encourage anybody who's feeling hopelessness, understandably feeling hopelessness, to plug in to their community, touch some grass or touch some snow outside, log off the Internet and see where you can actually help out, your neighbors and your friends and your family. It can be really rewarding. I love that. And you know what?

It is not a small win to get that bus going. Like, that is honestly amazing. And I, you know, I live in a pretty rural area and, like, public transit is, severely lacking and one bus would be so transformative to all of us. So, yeah, that is amazing. And I hope that our listeners have some inspiration and some feelings of hope from you three are so amazing.

When when is the Ontario election? Just so we can end on, like, a call to action. When can people go vote? I can speak to that a little bit. You can vote by mail.

You can order a mail what is it even called? A voting mailer or something? Before February 21. And then from February '22, you can advance vote. You can vote on e day, which is February 27.

And also in some writings, they have early voting open now where you just need to take ID and your voter registration to go vote. Amazing. We are gonna work hard to get this podcast episode out as soon as possible because this is, like, such a short election. It's actually unbelievable. But I just wanna thank the three of you so much for coming on and chatting about this, about all of these really important issues.

And thank you so much to all of our listeners for tuning in to our very our second episode of Break in Case of Emergency, our new podcast. If you like this episode, please rate, subscribe, share with a friend and we will see you next time. We have lots more to talk about. So yeah. Thanks so much, everyone.

Bye. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you.