The G7 and Canada’s climate fair share

With the uninspired wrap-up of the recent G7 Leaders Summit in Alberta, we wonder: what are these summits even meant for, and how can we use their spotlight on international cooperation to advocate for real systems change? Anjali Appadurai and Doug Hamilton-Evans chat about the issues on the table at the recent Summit, as well as our newly-launched Fair Shares Platform and why the climate movement needs to go global. 

This episode was recorded on Thursday, June 19, prior to the US bombing of Iran. It was published on Monday, June 23.

Credits: Music by Anjali Appadurai. Audio editing by Blue Light Studios. Artwork by Geoff Smith.

Articles/podcasts mentioned in this episode:

- The Fair Shares platform (please sign and share!) 

- Videos from the Fair Shares summit 2024

- The Fair Shares campaign on the Climate Emergency Unit website

- Road to COP29: Shifting and unlocking trillions for a just energy transition | Oil Change International

Transcript

Doug Hamilton-Evans (00:04)
Hello and welcome back to Break In Case of Emergency, a podcast from the Climate Emergency Unit about mobilizing Canada for the climate crisis with audacious solutions, rooted in justice and workers' rights. My name is Doug Hamilton-Evans and I'm here with the great Anjali Appadurai, who's recently back from the G7 People's Forum in Calgary, which is an intervention of faith-based and civil society groups held in advance of the G7 Leaders Summit, which just wrapped up in Kananaskis, Alberta. So hello, Anjali.

Anjali Appadurai (00:33)
Hello, so happy to be here.

Doug Hamilton-Evans (00:35)
Glad to be with you. We wanted to take this moment as a chance to talk about the state of multilateralism and global climate action and to share a new coalition campaign demanding Canada to do its fair share on the international stage. But before we jump into all that, do you mind just sort of giving us a bit of a background on what the G7 is, what these G7 leader summits are, and what they're usually used for?

Anjali Appadurai (01:02)
Yeah, I mean, there's been headlines floating around. I'm sure most of our listeners have seen. But the G7 is, it's not a formal institution in the way that, you know, the UN ⁓ Framework Convention on Climate Change is, ⁓ like the COP process is a formal institution. The G7 is just an informal grouping of the world's seven most powerful or most quote unquote developed economies. ⁓ This year is actually the 50th year that the G7 has been convening. It used to be the G8, Russia used to be in it, now it's just the G7. ⁓ And out of these meetings, more than any formal outcome, it's kind of, it's sort of a ⁓ parade of appearances. There's a communique or a ⁓ joint statement that comes out of it. And it's more of just a temperature check on where the richest countries in the world stand on major issues. ⁓ The US national security advisor, Jake Sullivan, referred to the G7 a couple of years ago as the steering committee of the free world, which for me is kind of like gag worthy, but whatever, it is in essence what it is. ⁓ And usually they talk big topics, know, macroeconomic management, trade and how to deal like relationships with the developing world, which is code for how are we going to deal with the poor people? And it's essentially a club of the architects of the neoliberal world order. And for a lot of the critics and for a lot of folks who are critical of this process watching it, it's a sort of ⁓ summit, an inside baseball summit on how to maintain that neoliberal world order in changing conditions and amidst challenges to that order. ⁓ For us at the Climate Emergency Unit and us in the climate movement, ⁓ lots of folks hoping that climate would make it on that list of major issues this year. as we're going to mention later, it didn't. ⁓ So, mean, obviously overshadowed by a massive ⁓ chaotic context. But in general, the G7 is a controversial thing. It's an informal body, it's controversial thing. It's ⁓ depending on which side of the world you are standing.

Doug Hamilton-Evans (03:42)
Yeah, you talk about changing conditions and conditions are shifting rapidly. ⁓ I'd love to dig into what happened sort of at this summit, know, particularly on climate or perhaps more what didn't happen on climate at the summit. And you sort of talked about joint statements earlier, you know, and I know that's not exactly what came out of this one. So if you could just kind of talk about the key headlines for us, you know, we could go into this forever, but I think sort of mostly climate and sort of just general international cooperation or the breakdown of it, that'd be great.

Anjali Appadurai (04:16)
Yeah, obviously the context of this G7 is ⁓ dire. ⁓ It's a rapidly shifting geopolitical landscape. The ⁓ ongoing aggression in Gaza has just been escalating. ⁓ It's in sort of the final stages of the genocide. that is, you know, we've been through almost two years of that and that has profoundly shifted ⁓ civil society attitudes and global relations. ⁓ And then obviously most recently this escalating ⁓ war, I guess, between Israel and Iran. So the G7 was happening as that was unfolding, which I'm sure colored the whole experience. Obviously we're still in the context of the war with Russia and Russia's aggression in Ukraine. And then also the trade war, Trump's actions that have plunged the global trade order into chaos and uncertainty. So all of these things ⁓ gave a heightened context to this G7 summit. And then, you know, Trump landed late ⁓ on Sunday. And I know this because he landed at the airport that I was waiting to get a flight out of and all the flights were delayed or canceled. Everybody was just stranded at this airport. 

⁓ He ruins everything. 

It's true. 

And then, ⁓ and then he left a day early and the summit's only three days long. So he, was just there for a day. And, know, obviously because of the, the, situation in Iran, it was ostensibly to deal with that. But even for the day that he was there, ⁓ all the countries of the G7 just seemed to just seem to really defer to him, which is how he likes it. That's the, that's the culture that he strives to create. ⁓ but everyone was eager to make trade deals with him because of this, this, ⁓ tariff situation. He's basically throwing out tariffs like candy, ⁓ and to avoid getting tariffs, everybody wants to make a trade deal. And so these world leaders are torn between their basic dignity and ensuring a good economic situation for their countries. Yeah, mean, there was no decision that came out of this. Not that the G7 has strong decisions anyway, but because Trump left a day early, they were not able to ⁓ come out with sort of a joint communique, which is the tradition at the G7. ⁓ But there were a few joint statements on a few issues. The whole thing was quite, it was just, it could be summed up as just war and tech. know, several issues related to war. So a lot of talk about security, a lot of talk about, ⁓ you know, Trump really wants to rope Carney into this golden dome idea. It's a lot about shoring up global security, which is essentially just how do we defend the West? So a lot of talk about AI, quantum technologies, ⁓ talked about migrant smuggling, transnational repression, critical minerals. ⁓ There's a big thing about critical minerals because we know that for the West to, or for these G7 countries to build the hegemonic future that they want, they want to invest in AI and they... that's going to require a massive uptake in the amount of minerals that they are able to source, mostly from the developing world. So that's a big challenge right there. And then there was a wildfire charter, which you actually pointed out, Doug, makes no mention of climate change, which is wild.

Doug Hamilton-Evans (08:26)
And meanwhile, Canada is burning. 30,000 plus people have been evacuated from their homes in Western Canada and in Ontario. And I like to imagine these leaders making deals on their golf courses. Choking on this wildfire smoke, but I think they sort of escaped it. Climate did not seem to be on the agenda at all. It was mentioned in the previous, I I found something climate was talked about 55 times in statements last year, but this year it was just talking about the investment climate, you know, which says a lot, I think, about the tone of the summit.

Anjali Appadurai (09:02)
Right. Yeah, exactly. I mean, we know that Carney is a private sector guy. ⁓ We know that he cares about climate. I mean, he was the special envoy on climate finance. So we that this is his area, but we also know that he believes in the free market and the private sector to deliver ⁓ the climate action that we need, which hasn't really been working out for us. And it seems like climate was happening in sort of these sort of side chats and backroom chats rather than being on the official agenda of the G7.

Doug Hamilton-Evans (09:46)
Right. Cause like, you know, there's no way Trump would sign off on anything to do with climate. ⁓ like one thing, you know, in general, the fact that, you know, you talk about for Trump, when Trump was there, seemed like the major focus was to not upset him, particularly on the Canadian side to like avoid a 2018 style, you know, international incident and to just sort of get some sort of trade deal to escape from this like tear of hell. And then he flies off early.

And it seems sycophantic. think some others might call it realpolitik, but, you know, Trump has taken the U S from the Paris agreement. He seems intent on this sort of great power strategy rather than like liberal American hegemony. like U S is the economic, the military, it's the nuclear empire superpower. what, I guess, what is the state or what is the hope for multilateralism and for like the G7, know, Carney himself sort of admitted that multilateralism is under attack, but he kind of puts an optimistic spin on it, talking about this new era of cooperation, like what should we be looking for? What should we be demanding? Like, is this where we should be focusing? And you mentioned it's sort of, it's not a formal body. ⁓ It's a ⁓ club of the winners of the current order, you know? ⁓ I guess use all that as you will.

Anjali Appadurai (11:09)
Yeah, I mean, it's interesting that Carney acknowledged, you know, multilateralism is under attack. And that's kind of the crux of it here. And that's kind of what the failure of this G7, let's call it what it is. It was a failure even by G7 standards. there isn't even an expectation for much of an expectation for the G7. I mean, that's what it...really represents, it's kind of emblematic of this broader trend and broader arc of multilateralism being under fire and being challenged. mean, this has been happening since neoliberalism kind of was born in the 80s and 90s ⁓ because there's been such a shift towards markets in the private sector, ⁓ a shift in power, a handover of power to the private sector. And so this idea of governments cooperating and ⁓ compromising for the global good has just been eroded steadily, but the last few years have really accelerated that. And that has been spearheaded mostly by the US. The US has maintained ⁓ an attitude of exceptionalism in every multilateral forum that it's a part of. ⁓

The one that I know the best is the UNFCCC, the climate forum, and I've been tracking that one since 2009. And it's just wild to see how the US treats itself as a completely separate entity. It's the single greatest blocker of climate progress in the world. It has single-handedly blocked, watered down, undermined any sort of budding or nascent agreements, global agreements on climate. It's seen itself as not only the global policeman, but also the global sort of arbiter of justice. And ⁓ it's also a fossil fuel giant. I mean, that cop process has just been devolving into a fossil fuel summit. Until last year, we saw just a record number of fossil fuel lobbyists. was headed the year before that, it was headed by the CEO of an oil company. So that's the impact that the US has had on multilateralism. ⁓ And it's just sort of to... There's a very inconvenient truth at the heart of the G7, which is that the developing world, which is the majority of the world's population, are in interlocking crises, and those crises are getting worse and deepening. They are in a debt crisis, ⁓ obviously an escalating climate crisis, an inequality crisis. ⁓ 54 countries in the world, which is a really large percentage, are in an active debt crisis right now. And we saw that in 2023, Sri Lanka defaulted on its debt. And that was a sort of perfect storm of factors that involved a colonial legacy, an unfair economic system, tons of borrowing, ⁓ and the climate crisis added to that.

And then the pandemic added to that. And the price gouging of the fossil fuel industry added to that. And all of those factors combined, and this small country defaulted on its debt and is now actively working with the IMF at great cost ⁓ to rebuild. And we can expect to see this start to happen with more countries in the very near future as they're forced to deepen that debt cycle by borrowing to deal with ongoing climate impacts. ⁓ The G7 knows very, very well that this is happening. And ⁓ they know very, well that they're in a position of extreme power when it comes to how the future of the majority of the world. And they've heard this message loud and clear from social movement leaders from the global south for decades. They know very well that the global financial system is incredibly unjust and is set up to benefit them. ⁓ the truth, the unspoken truth of these gatherings is it is an exercise in how they maintain that, how they maintain that unfair system that benefits them. We had some really interesting research come out last year that showed that there is a net transfer from the global south to the global north every year of approximately 2.2 trillion US dollars annually. so the conjecture of a gathering of the world's richest governments like the G7, which, you know, the conjecture is all about enhancing aid to the south and enhancing debt relief measures and ⁓ supporting the world's poor.

⁓ That is a mask for the real fact, the inconvenient truth, which is that the Global South is upholding, financially upholding the Global North. And it's a complex set of factors how that happens, but the Global South is still a massive ⁓ resource draw for our lifestyles here in the North. ⁓

Obviously that's very intense, that's what's behind this shiny facade. We're not going to hear that in the headlines, ⁓ but it's what's happening. so I think the presence of civil society at these things to sort of name that inconvenient truth is more important than ever.

Doug Hamilton-Evans (17:16)
Yeah, think and what and with Canada as sort of the host as the G7 for this one and you were mentioning, you know, the US's, you know, role of blocking and undermining climate internationally or like sort of spearheading these interlocking crises and systems of, you know, debt and trade and economic injustice. you know, I'd love to know also about like Canada's role in propping up the system is so aligned with the US, but also like, are there potential fissures as citizens? we make our will heard and affect how our country stands up on the international stage? And maybe this can kind of lead into like, what were people doing here at the People's Forum beforehand? Like, let's go from international elites and international systems of power to people on the ground in Canada in solidarity with the global South.

Anjali Appadurai (18:11)
Yeah, and I think what you said really points to a fresh opportunity that we have for that. I Canada, because of our geography and the fact that we are also a colonial empire, we have just been attached at the hip with the US in every multilateral setting. We sort of parrot their stances and they count on us to sort of be their sort of...echo, echoer of their, of their positions. And that that's been the norm. That's just been the norm and our, our culture, ⁓ in the international community for a very long time. ⁓ and it's almost like this new Trump era is a little bit of a gift, ⁓ in terms of creating that Fisher, ⁓ and this whole elbows up a mentality that has emerged is kind of cool. I mean, it's, yeah, but yeah, leaving aside the nationalist ⁓ part of that, the idea of people wanting to assert a Canadian identity does open up an opportunity for us to think about a different relationship to the rest of the world as well. ⁓ So yeah, I was in Calgary last weekend. It was great. I was attending ⁓ this gathering called the People's Forum, which was put together by a network of mostly faith organizations from across the country, ⁓ the Catholic and ⁓ Protestant and Anglican ⁓ churches from across the country are in a network ⁓ that does a lot of work around international justice. And that's something that historically in Canada and Canadian civil society faith groups have sort of held the torch of things like debt cancellation and international economic justice for a long time. It's kind of an unexpected, it's kind of a weird, like you wouldn't guess that those are the groups that have been upholding that for so long. But historically they have. And right now I would say in a moment when the climate movement in Canada isn't very international in its scope.

Like we don't really look that far beyond our borders. The faith groups are really stepping up in that way. And so they held this thing called the People's Forum and it was centered around their international campaign called Turn Debt Into Hope. And it's about debt cancellation. And in the Catholic Church, there's the concept of the Jubilee, which is a debt cancellation ⁓ sort of, yeah, Jubilee. And according to the Pope, ⁓

Actually, this goes back thousands of years, but the Jubilee happens every kind of set number of years. And according to the Catholic tradition, more recently, it's every 25 years. So the year 2000 was a Jubilee year. The year 2025 this year is a Jubilee year. So there's this massive coordinated international campaign for debt relief for the Global South. And yeah, and I was there to get involved with this campaign and to get to know these groups. ⁓ And also outside of the People's Forum, there were people's mobilizations in Calgary. ⁓ No one was allowed in Kannaskis ⁓ where the actual summit was happening, but there were approved protest spots in Calgary and Banff, which is also weird.

People, and also what was even weirder was the fact that people actually stuck to those protest zones and were pretty like quiet about it. 

Polite. 

Very polite. 

So I was at the People's Mobilization on Sunday in Calgary, which was cool. It was really cool.

Doug Hamilton-Evans (22:15)
Was there sort of like a unified message or was it sort of many different messages all coming together at some of the mobilizations that you saw? how did it all intertwine?

Anjali Appadurai (22:27)
Yeah, the people's mobilization in Calgary was kind of hosted by the Calgary Climate Hub and their theme was Indigenous land and water rights. So the way that they set up the protest kind of felt like a standard climate protest, ⁓ which was great in many ways. And there was a lot of shared analysis between Indigenous, mostly Blackfoot elders and Palestine organizers, there were a lot of connections being drawn between what's happening in Gaza and what has happened to Indigenous people and how that relates to world leaders. ⁓ But the cast of really wide tent for who could participate or who would be represented in the mobilization. And so there were a lot of different groups there talking about different things. There was a strong South Asian. contingent talking about what's happening in the occupation of Kashmir. That was great. ⁓ There was a contingent from Ethiopia talking about ethnic cleansing in the Amara region. was, ⁓ yeah, just a number of different folks represented there. And it was great to see that, but it also meant that the mobilizations weren't unified under a strong message to the G7. and I think that was what I would have loved to have seen was a strong internationalist message, ⁓ that, that highlighted international cooperation, international solidarity, international justice that highlighted how our struggles are so connected. ⁓ yeah. And it just, kind of made me a little wistful, I guess, because, you know, we have seen much bigger international mobilizations in Canada in the past. mean, even if you go back to 1999, the battle at Seattle, the protesting the WTO and globalization, like that is, that is a deeply international interconnected struggle. And yeah, that was happening in Seattle, but it was huge in Vancouver. Tons of people went down for that. And then in 2010 at the G20 summit in Toronto, massive mobilizations. ⁓ Yeah, I think it was still the largest wave of arrests in Canadian history was in 20.

Doug Hamilton-Evans (25:01)
I remember that.

Anjali Appadurai (25:03)
Yeah, you were... ⁓

Doug Hamilton-Evans (25:04)
Well, I wasn't there. just remember watching that and seeing that and kind of being just, you know, learning, you know, what Kettling was during that time, or just seeing like the massive police presence in, you know, a major metropolitan center, kind of that securitization of urban space, which is now you see it totally, you know, these leaders totally removed in Kananaskis and these, you know, approved demonstration zones created instead to sort of keep these international discussions pristine.

Anjali Appadurai (25:34)
Yeah.

Doug Hamilton-Evans (25:35)
But in terms of this international solidarity work and an internationalist vision, maybe can I ask you what you were bringing to the People's Forum? Climate emergency unit and a coalition of many partners just launched this Fair Shares platform. So can you tell us a bit about that? The need for it, who's involved, what the asks are, how people can get involved? Give us a pitch.

Anjali Appadurai (25:59)
Great, okay, great lead in Doug. I was at the People's Forum to talk about the Fairshare's platform. I gave a little presentation and you and I have been working on this and have seen some, it's been really, it's been a great process. I mean, I've been having fun. Have you been having fun?

Doug Hamilton-Evans (26:19)
I've been learning a lot and having a great time. ⁓ Yes, no, honestly, yes.

Anjali Appadurai (26:24)
It's been such a steep learning curve. We realized, you know, I mean, I've been sort of beating this drum for a very long time, but we're finally doing it. We're finally building a sort of unified set of demands across the Canadian climate movement for Canada's role in the international community. so last year, we started working with a coalition from across the country. We brought folks together into a virtual summit, the Fair Share Summit in the fall, which was really beautiful. And we had folks from across the climate movement come. We had a lot of speakers from the global south. We had young people involved. It was just for a virtual conference, I thought it was a lot of fun. And we learned a lot from those speakers. There were experts on debt and trade justice and climate finance and ⁓ international financial architecture. There was just some really fantastic analysis that came out of there. And it also showed us that as the climate movement in Canada, we're kind of unprepared to deal with this stuff. And, know, it's nobody's fault. It's just our movements have been really focused on massive pipeline expansion across Turtle Island, on know, decolonization of the movement itself. ⁓ Big moments like, I mean, for here in BC, like Burnaby Mountain and big winds like defeating the Enbridge pipeline. And I think now, given the global context, it's really important that we also extend our solidarity and our analysis and our praxis as a climate movement ⁓ to the global south.

And we know that Canada as one of the wealthiest and highest polluting nations, part of our climate obligation to the world is domestic. Yes, like we need to have a just transition, ⁓ a decolonized just transition here in Canada. But we also equally importantly need to ⁓ essentially pay reparations and contribute to the global south where we are blocking climate action through participating in a deeply unjust, inequitable global financial system. And we know that this is something that Carney understands. He's been in the room for these discussions. He has listened to the Global South leaders who have talked about this. He understands the financial barriers to climate action. ⁓ You know, it's things like developing countries can't borrow at the same rates as the rich countries. ⁓ They have much different infrastructure costs. They are hit differently by climate impacts. They have different adaptation needs. ⁓ They aren't able to access ⁓ funds as easily as rich countries. It's just ⁓ much harder for them to navigate ⁓ the global financial system. ⁓ The Fair Share's platform is a set of demands. It's got four sections. One is on climate finance. One is on debt cancellation. One is on tax justice, and one is on trade justice. And it essentially compiles demands that have existing movements behind them. And we've gotten, we've worked with a coalition from across the country. 350.org has launched a petition about the fair shares platform. It's doing really well. It has over 5,000 signatures. for those of who are listening, please go and sign the fair shares petition.

And then there's this broader platform document that organizations can sign on to ⁓ as well. So yeah, that's platform.

Doug Hamilton-Evans (30:29)
Incredible. I do have to say that you have been doing this work for a very long time and it's hard work and it's complex. I just wanted to say like impressive congratulations on bringing this all together. It's hard to parse it all out, but I think anyone going to the website, which is at 350.org slash Canada slash fair share, we'll have it in the show notes, but please go there, sign the petition. We'll find it readable and accessible and you mentioned the fair shares summit and we'll have that in the show notes as well because we have video from all the sessions climate fair share one word.ca and we'll have that there as well if you're interested in this, get in there. But I was thinking you mentioned the four sections each with their own sub demands and so I think you've touched on lots of these already but maybe as a bit of an introduction to the fair shares work.

Anjali Appadurai (31:03)
Mm-hmm.

Doug Hamilton-Evans (31:23)
You could kind of quickly hit on some of the key points, give each section a bit of a speed round, like I can give the headline and you can speak to the main points just to kind of give people like an understanding of like what the demands are. And also an invitation to others to join the group because I think we're looking to grow this coalition. And I think the demands are solid and good, but there's room for more to bring, you know, it's not a closed off document, it's a living document.

Anjali Appadurai (31:48)
It's a living document. That's so important. also, like with the Climate Emergency Unit, not, ⁓ we really believe in collaboration and we don't seek to own anything. So we really want this to be in the hands of the movement. And so don't hesitate to just reach out and take leadership on this.

Doug Hamilton-Evans (32:08)
Okay, are you ready for the speed round?

Anjali Appadurai (32:10)
yeah. Okay. So fun.

Doug Hamilton-Evans (32:13)
Number one, ⁓ pay our fair share of global climate finance. So what's global climate finance?

Anjali Appadurai (32:19)
Climate finance is the financial obligation that Canada has, is legally bound to under the Paris Agreement to the global South. our actual fair share equals $58 billion Canadian per year from now until 20 to 35. That's a huge amount of money. 

No big deal. 

Our current commitment is 5 billion per year for the next five years. close. 5 billion versus 58. And so the platform actually echoes the call of a few other groups in Canada that are calling just to triple our existing commitment, not even to meet the 58 billion, but just to triple it to 15 billion a year until 2031. Falls very short of our true fair share, but that's a good faith step forward. We also need that finance to be grants and not loans, which has been a huge problem. We cannot have more conditional financing to the Global South. They're already deep in debt.

It has to be grants, they have to be gender responsive and not relying on private finance. And we have to scale up adaptation and loss and damage ⁓ to at least equal ⁓ that $15 billion figure because adaptation and loss and damage are absolutely critical. They do not get the attention that mitigation gets. And we have to increase our development aid. There is a global trend right now led very aggressively by Donald Trump to cut foreign aid. They are dismantling US foreign aid ⁓ systems as we speak and defunding organizations that are doing absolutely critical work around the world. We have to take a stance against that and we have to increase Canada's international assistance envelope.

Doug Hamilton-Evans (34:07)
Okay. Number two, cancel unfair debts and support global debt justice. I know this is really in line with the Jubilee work, ⁓ but if you could kind of just talk us through debt justice.

Anjali Appadurai (34:20)
Yes, this is a huge one. As I said, 54 countries are in an active debt crisis. ⁓ Low and lower middle income countries collectively owe around 1.45 trillion USD in external debt. A lot of this debt is illegitimate. It's ⁓ unjust. It ⁓ has compounded through absolutely unfair financial rules and extremely high interest rates. Right now, 25 out of 54 African countries spend more on interest payments on their debt than on health and food security. So debt payments and servicing debt is a massive, massive barrier to climate action. ⁓ And so we need to cancel the debt. That's the number one thing is to cancel all sovereign debt held by Canada.

And we have an opportunity as the leaders of the G7 this year and as one of the strongest economies in the world, we have to use our position within the G7 and the G20 to advocate for other debt cancellation measures beyond what Canada itself owes or holds. We have to create a culture of debt cancellation and bring on a new wave of debt cancellation, or we're never going to be able to tackle the climate crisis and developing countries are going to fall deeper and deeper into the debt trap. We also need to use our leadership within the G7 and G20 to build a debt mechanism at the UN. Talking about multilateralism being under attack, the way to combat that is to build strong multilateral institutions and say what you will about the UN. Unfortunately, it's still the only place where everyone has a seat at the table.

The G20 is not that place, the G7 certainly isn't that place. ⁓ So we need a UN body for debt resolution and there's an active global movement calling for that. It would be called the UN Framework Convention on Sovereign Debt. It's absolutely needed and it really speaks to that piece around multilateralism being under threat.

Doug Hamilton-Evans (36:28)
Incredible and I think we have some links and explanations of that a little bit more on the website and in the fair shares platform too. Alright number three of four support a global tax system reform ⁓ tax systems. Please help us.

Anjali Appadurai (36:44)
my gosh. ⁓ an absolute, ⁓ can I say cluster---? I just said it. Yeah it's a really, really broken global tax system. And we, see that play out nationally here in Canada and we see it play out globally. Wealth inequality is reaching, it has reached historical all time highs. And in Canada, the trend is going up. ⁓ the rich are getting richer and.

The global tax system is one of the culprits of that. It is very much set up to funnel wealth to the top. And ⁓ it's also designed to support rich individuals and corporations to hide from paying their fair share of taxes. ⁓ We've seen the NDP leader speak a little bit about tax havens. We absolutely need to address that system because it's stealing money from the public.

And so there's been a lot of movement in Canada, a lot of support in Canada for a windfall profits tax, a domestic one. ⁓ We definitely need an international measure as well, but just a domestic windfall profits tax of 15 % on profits over 1 billion for oil and gas companies would generate 4.2 billion in five years. And that's money that goes back into the public coffers and back into the public good. And we deserve that money.

The CEOs do not deserve that money.  Also polling has been done that shows that a majority of Canadians support a windfall profits tax. At the climate emergency, we talk a lot about how that was one of the key measures put in place during the war time, during World War II, to ensure that society stayed fair in the wake of the war. There was a 100 % tax. There was essentially a profit cap on what ⁓ the profits that companies were allowed to make from the war. So there's that. And then we have to use our leadership within the G7 and the G20 to advocate for another UN mechanism, the UN tax mechanism, the UN Framework Convention on International Tax Cooperation. A system as big as the global tax system should not be left to get financialized and to be run by banks, corporations, and the wealthiest countries in the world. It should be a global ⁓ cooperation effort. ⁓ then there's all these other ways to generate money for ⁓ climate action. There's all these incredible untaxed potential sectors. And so there's a thing called solidarity levies, and it's essentially taxes, small taxes very, very tiny taxes on under-taxed sectors, such as shipping, aviation, fossil fuel extraction, ⁓ the ultra-wealthy, so billionaires, financial transactions, ⁓ international carbon pricing mechanisms, and plastic polymer production. So we're talking very small taxes on every transaction that happens within these sectors could generate billions for climate action.

Doug Hamilton-Evans (40:06)
And to go with that, think last year Oil Change International put out a report kind of showing many of these things. They crunched the numbers and they figured that through many of these mechanisms, rich countries could mobilize over five trillion a year for climate action at home and abroad through these systems of making polluters pay, fixing global financial rules, these marginal taxes on international finance and things that will also sort of deter just the rapid movement of capital and speculation as well. We'll drop that in the show notes as well. We cite that in the affairs shares platform. Lastly, but not least supporting global trade reform, global trade, intentionally complicated and opaque. How do we parse this and how do we reform it? How do we open up the lid on this black box?

Anjali Appadurai (41:01)
Yeah, it's, as you said, it's so incredibly complex and really hard to campaign on something called investor state dispute settlement mechanisms. Yeah, what are those? It's just not sexy. ⁓ But those mechanisms, the ISDS as they're called, are an incredibly harmful mechanism that's embedded in a lot of trade agreements, especially bilateral trade agreements. It was obviously developed by the US –because they do all the bad things – And it's a mechanism essentially that grants corporations or investors ⁓ rights that can supersede the laws of the countries in which they're operating. So essentially multinational corporations seeking to set up operations in other countries say it's a mining company and this is very much the case with Canadian mining.

Canadian mining has been decried for decades for its absolutely devastating impact on local communities where mines are set up. ⁓ so, for example, if the host country where that company wants to build a mine, say it's a Canadian mining company wants to set up a mine in another country, if that country has laws on ⁓ environmental regulations or human rights laws that prevent the mines from doing certain things, maybe setting up near a river where it's gonna pollute the water supply, things like that. These investor state dispute mechanisms ⁓ actually enable the company, the multinational company, that mining company to take the country to court to sue for damages ⁓ because it interfered with their profits. And I wish this was a joke or an oversimplification. It's not, it's literally cartoon villain stuff that is now the norm in our global trading system because of the fact that it's opaque and hard to campaign on and the public, it's hard to make the public care about the stuff. And so the global trading system is a massive impediment to global climate action. So ⁓ in the platform we call for the removal of ISDS mechanisms from all Canadian bilateral trade agreements and to use our leadership at the G7 and the G20 to advocate for the banning of ISDS, to just remove that clause. It's a chapter in the trade agreements. in former work of mine, I have gone through these investor chapters in actual trade agreements and analyzed the language of these investor chapters, they are so egregious. It's literally just saying, hand power over to the companies, screw your local rights. ⁓ and Canada is in a lot of trade agreements. We have started or completed negotiations towards 85 trade and investment agreements with 75 countries. So, canceling the ISDS in those would be a big step.

And we need a more democratic trade process. Like this should be something that is open to the public. When Canada negotiates a trade agreement with Ecuador, the Canadian public should be able to monitor that. It should be debated in parliament. It should be something that the records should be open to us. It shouldn't be this shadowy process. ⁓ And it should be in full consultation with Indigenous people, civil society groups, ⁓ experts, know, just people who could help interrupt this process of unequal trade that hands power to corporations.

Doug Hamilton-Evans (44:54)
Yeah. And I do want to give a shout out to Mining Watch Canada. You were talking about Canada mining across the world, as well as Common Frontiers, which has done a lot of great work on ISDS. And if anyone's interested in ⁓ kind of parsing some of these ISDSs and issues around them, we have a video from the summit featuring Hadrian Mertins-Kirkwood from the Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives and DT Cochrane from the Canadian Labour Congress also speaking about this. But I don't think I've ever heard it just explained so succinctly and naturally. So that was helpful. Even though I looked into this before, it was great to just hear you ⁓ speak to the people here. That? Yeah. So that's the FairShare's platform. So I'm just going to name the URL and then please go ahead. 350.org slash Canada slash FairShare. Go ahead.

Anjali Appadurai (45:35)
Yeah.

Well, I was just echoing what you said. As I was reading out those demands from our platform, I was just struck by how huge these numbers are that we're throwing around. Like we're talking about, you know, small changes to the tax system resulting in $5 trillion for climate action. We're talking about, you know, cancelling sovereign debt, generating over 100 billion for climate action. talking about just these massive numbers ⁓ and massive amounts of money that are floating around in the system right now. And I think ⁓ it can just be really overwhelming. And I just want to name that. It's the fact that our global financial system has gone without scrutiny for so long, or at least the scrutiny has been shouted for many decades by social movements in the global south, but we haven't had a strong enough movement here in the belly of the beast in the global north to make our governments, ⁓ to give them pause at all. so the shedding light on the system just kind of reveals how unequal it is and how much money is going into the hands of the wealthy that could be liberated for the public good. So that's what struck me as I was reading that.

Doug Hamilton-Evans (47:13)
⁓ It really does require leaps and bounds of imagination and learning of how the world does work and could work. it just kind of reminds me that the world of international relations and international finance sometimes feels like the least connected to our lives as democratic citizens. It just feels more closed off than any other sort of the realm and more confusing and yet it is dictating the lives of billions of people around the world. I just think of responses to the G7 and these forums and how we can kind of mobilize to have our nation and country stand up for what we believe in. And kind of leading me to think about what was the response when you brought this fair shares platform to the People's Forum and where can it go from here, you mentioned that Mark Carney like ostensibly should get it, like he's been in the right rooms, he's you know, Mia Mottley before, like how do we hold him accountable and how do we sort of like elevate these ideas amidst everything else that's been going on, like the horrors of geopolitics that are happening right now, you know, just a small question to sort of end us off.

Anjali Appadurai (48:35)
Yeah, you know, the workshop that we did on the Fisheries platform at the People's Forum was really well received. And I was just struck by how radical these faith groups and faith networks are. You know, they're actively running this Turn Debt Into Hope campaign. ⁓ And so talking to them about why debt was so crippling and how it actually functioned in our unequal global financial system, they were just very, very receptive towards it. And it led into this really interesting conversation about our imperative as people, activists, as people in the climate movement, as people care ⁓ about justice here in the global North and like particularly in Canada and the U.S. like, or we are so U.S. adjacent. And it was just an interesting conversation where

Yeah, this feels huge. We're talking about changing massive, massive systems. ⁓ It feels not local enough. It feels not tangible enough. But the fact of the matter is having, it is absolutely our imperative to build a strong, unified voice on this stuff because that is the building of our collective conscience. It's building conscience.

And it's a cultural shift. It's moving us into a culture of internationalism, a culture of recognizing that we are so deeply connected, that ⁓ the opportunities and the access that we have here, despite living in an extremely unequal society, ⁓ it's coming at the expense of the global South. And we have more in common with with people of the South than we do with our own governments. And so it's that sort of like international solidarity that we have to build a culture and a conversation around. So yeah, if we don't make five trillion ⁓ for climate action, I think the building of that conversation and of that movement is absolutely critical for our own evolution as a movement. And it provides some kind of foundation, some kind of block in the road for when our extremely imperial governments want to sort of brazenly do things like create ISDS mechanisms and things like that. At least there's an active conversation happening on the ground, a conscience that stops them or gives them pause.

Doug Hamilton-Evans (51:20)
And as climate crises, debt crises, you know, war and conflict grow, like you see some on the right who want to just pull up the drawbridges, know, pull up the gates, let everyone else in the world suffer ⁓ while, you know, somewhat comfort can be achieved in our bunkers or something like that. And it just feels like something like this is just has to be people of conscious saying no, not in our names can happen. will, you know, we everyone around this world is a human. We stand in solidarity with them and we'll work with them. So I think like, you know, big policy questions and huge amounts of money. But in the end, it's sort of just this like common recognition of of humanity and the fact that like we will fight for it and we must and we will do everything at home, but we do it in conversation with people around the world.

Anjali Appadurai (52:16)
Exactly. Beautifully said. And yeah, I totally agree. That is our evolution. That's our mandate. And it was, I think, it was Naomi Klein and Astra Taylor who wrote that beautiful essay on, you know, they're talking about the prepper mentality of this new kind of MAGA style conservatism and how the next phase of that is like this, as what you were talking about, the prepper mentality of like, okay, well, The world we lit on fire is now burning. ⁓ So let's get into our bunkers and hoard all the wealth. And they've set up a global financial system that is doing exactly that. It's just funneling from the bottom to the top. ⁓ for us to, like the most conscientious thing we can do is to be sort of anti-prepper in that way, to have an expansive ethos and politic that encompasses everyone else and understands precisely the ways in ⁓ which the system is unjust and sort of like picks our specific pressure points to change that.

Doug Hamilton-Evans (53:32)
Or like, and instead of prepping by, you know, downloading our brains to the AI or the cloud, or like trying to colonize Mars, ⁓ or hoping that your private security firm won't turn on you once, know, the money runs out or the rations run out. We prep by making connections, like, you know, solidarity, like mutual aid and like, ⁓ and building and a society that won't burn.

Doug Hamilton-Evans (54:03)
I don't know, does that sound like a podcast to you?

Anjali Appadurai (54:07)
That was a podcast. ⁓

Doug Hamilton-Evans (54:09)
Anything else you want to talk about?

Anjali Appadurai (54:11)
No, just whoever's listening, go sign that petition. And if you're part of an organization, add your name to that list. I mean, I think this is just a first step. We don't want this to just be a petition. As I said, is long, slow, difficult work and it feels too big sometimes, but it's just so important that this is a part of our ethos as people of conscience. So we'd love to continue this conversation if you have any ideas for, excuse me, for how to continue that conversation, you know, reach out anytime we're all ears. ⁓ and we hope to just gather folks to keep having this conversation in the year to come.

Doug Hamilton-Evans (54:56)
Amazing. Thank you, Anjali. Yeah, you can find, we'll drop the links to everything in the show notes. Thank you all for listening to Break In Case Emergency. As always, you know, if you rate, if you review, if you subscribe to this, more people will hear this and get it out in the world. If you like this, please share it with a friend. And you can find the Climate Emergency Unit on Instagram and Blue Sky and LinkedIn and all the socials.

And you can try to find Anjali on there as well. She posts sometimes. can encourage her to post more if you want to encourage

But yes, thank you. Until next time, goodbye.

Anjali Appadurai (55:40)
Bye everyone.

Doug Hamilton-Evans (55:54)
Yeah