S03E04 Kateryna: Choosing Home Birth in Switzerland

Kateryna's resources are below this description

What happens when a healthcare system’s “just in case” meets a mother’s calm, clear questioning: “what’s actually happening right now?”, "How is my baby doing?"

Originally from Ukraine, we meet Kateryna to explore her five-year fertility journey, her two planned home births in the Zurich area, and the tightrope walk between hospital protocol, fact-finding and personal autonomy. From a low fluid scare and a breech presentation to a successful ECV (a procedure to turn the baby before it is born) followed by a rare bleeding complication, she takes us inside the decisions that turned anxiety into agency and pressure into preference.

We move through practical strategies for navigating late-pregnancy curveballs: how she assessed induction recommendations with a clear head, what respectful monitoring sounds like, and where to find breech-friendly care in Switzerland. Kateryna’s first home birth unfolded with movement, hypnobirthing, and water; her second arrived in a sunlit pool in under a minute after a forest walk and mindful positioning.

Her approach was never “home at all costs.” Hospitals were registered, transfer plans ready, and informed consent constant- proof that safety and softness can coexist when parents are trusted.

Postpartum is where her philosophy crystallizes. The first time, she rushed back to life and paid for it with prolonged bleeding and discomfort. The second, she committed to forty days of rest, clear boundaries, and targeted support, including a rented therapeutic laser for nipple healing and a lotus birth that demanded slow, attentive care. The result: steadier breastfeeding, deeper sleep, and a remarkably calm baby. We also talk about changing doctors at 38 weeks, the red flags that signal misalignment, and the green lights that say you’ve found your team.

If you’re weighing home birth, facing breech, or just craving a gentler postpartum, this story offers concrete tools and uncommon peace. Listen, share with a friend who needs a confidence boost, and subscribe for more Swiss birth stories and expert insights. Your review helps more parents find evidence-based, heart-forward care.

Kateryna's resources:

- Hebammen https://www.instagram.com/haerzchlopfae_hebamme?igsh=MzM5ZTE5YjB2aThz

- Doctor to turn breech baby https://frauenarzt-genesis.ch/dr-el-idrissi/

- Doctor to give birth vaginaly with breech https://www.hirslanden.ch/de/corporate/aerzte/3/dr-med-werner-stadlmayr.html

Postpartum midwife https://diehebammenpraxis.ch/

Rent laser https://www.wochenbett-huber.ch/

Yoni steaming and recovery massage https://www.christine-ehling.com/

Transcript

Meet The Hosts And Guest

Julia 0:08

Hi, and welcome to Swiss Birth Stories. I'm Julia Neal, mother, doula, hypnobirthing specialist, and perinatal educator.

Five-Year Fertility Journey

Christine 0:17

And I'm Christina Bliven. I'm a doula, baby wearing consultant, childbirth educator, and mother of three. Today we're talking to Kateryna a mom of two who shares her incredible journey to motherhood here in Switzerland. After years of trying to conceive, Katarina finally welcomed her first child in 2022, and then her second in 2025. She talks about the winding path that led her to two home births, what it was like navigating hospital recommendations and making confident choices that felt right for her, and how she approached the postpartum period with more intention and self-care the second time around. Katerina's story is one of resilience, trust, and learning to listen to your own instincts, even when the system says otherwise. Hello, Katerina. It's so good to have you with us.

Kateryna 1:08

Good morning, Christine.

Christine 1:10

Would love to start off uh just by hearing about you, about your family, how did you get to Switzerland? Who is in your family?

Joyful Pregnancies And Work Travel

Kateryna 1:20

So uh we're a family of five now. Our first baby is our dog. He's uh five and a half years old, and funnily enough, he was born the same day as my older son, Nikita. They born the same day, and many people were laughing at me when I was celebrating uh the birthday of my dog, and they were telling you need a child, and then the child came the same day. So I love that. And my daughter was born on the 13th of August, so she's uh turning three months soon. Uh, my husband is Swiss, uh, I'm originally Ukrainian, already got my Swiss passport, but still feel like Ukrainian in heart. And we came to Switzerland um the first time um in 2014, so 11 years ago. Um, I tried to get settled and uh find a job on that time, but it didn't happen. So I did my PhD and continue my career in Hong Kong, then we moved together to London and came back to Switzerland in 2019, um, just

Speaker 2:27

shortly before COVID.

Julia 2:29

Oh yeah. Wow. Could you tell us then about how you guys knew it was the right time for you to start a family and how the journey to pregnancy was for you?

Speaker 2:39

Yes, so um, in our case, we were ready, I would say, from day one to become parents, but of course, we wanted to enjoy a little bit of Hong Kong life, and we got married there uh in 2017. Um, so until my son was born in 2022, it was five long years that we were trying to get a baby. Um many different ways I tried. Um, I would say there is nothing in this earth that I didn't try. Um, all kinds of treatments, uh, natural reflexology, um acupuncture, uh, all kinds of uh fertility um specialists, um, gynecologists, changing uh diets, uh, changing mindset, meditating, uh taking vitamins. Um, but luckily in the end it worked. So we got our son in April 2022. And with the second child, it was shorter period, right? So we tried when my son was one, and she was born when he was three and a half. So it's uh every time a little bit less and less. So hopefully for the next children it will be even shorter.

Julia 3:50

Lovely. How was your preg your experience your pregnancies?

Low Fluid Scare And Breech

Speaker 3:55

Uh it it both pregnancies was so um wanted that uh they were amazing from day one. I continued working and um traveling. Um, I have a lot of um job-related travels with a second job, even to critical infrastructure like aluminium plants or something like that, and what's still not a problem until late pregnancy. I was also in the conference uh seven, almost eight months pregnant, um making a speech in front of 8,000 people, and uh I was just happy to be there. Uh was uh absolutely great uh experience. Uh, this first one without surprises, and the second one with small surprises in the end. So I was planning a trip with my mom, a surprise trip to Milan to see her girlfriends for birthday. We were driving and passing by my doctor already with bags packed in my car. Um, the trip was planned by train, but the Italian uh train uh was not possible to take while it was a strike. So there was already a small sign that maybe we will not go, but I was very, very enthusiastic and I decided, okay, um, 34 weeks pregnant, why not to drive there? Um just for hours, three hours to Milan. So on the way to Milan, we went to my regular appointment, and from that appointment, I ended up in Trimlin because I didn't have enough water uh for the baby. Um, that was quite uh unexpected because I felt very well, and in this pregnancy, I didn't do many ultrasound, so I didn't know what is normal water. But of course, gynecologists they know what is normal water. So in Trimlin, they checked a couple of more times. They told me that it's not that critical, so I don't need to do anything about it except of laying down and uh uh canceling all my plants, uh, drinking more, um, worrying less and uh in a weak time. Um that was great. And that particularly maybe was a reason why baby didn't turn, so she was held up. Uh and my son was also held up quite late, uh, so I was not worrying about it, but I started doing spinning baby exercises, turning in the water, doing moxta treatments, um, and slowly, slowly getting a little bit nervous what's going on and why she's not turning.

Julia 6:25

So after a week, did you say um that the your water level, your amniotic fluid level went back up or sort of within the normal range?

Speaker 6:33

Yeah, that was quite interesting because they told that there are two reasons for amniotic fluid not to be there. So one is leaking, that was not the case because like that was a summer, so I would notice it if there would any leak be like that's something that I couldn't imagine. And second, placenta is not working very well, right? So that's also a problem, um, particularly common in geriatric pregnancy. So they were telling that they need to observe, but interestingly, it was afterwards in a normal range, not even lower range. So what happened, I don't know.

Julia 7:10

Isn't that interesting? Maybe it was something to do with like the preparation for your trip or something like that. So you didn't make it to Milan in the end, I guess.

Speaker 7:17

No, I didn't make it to Milan, and I needed to cancel a party. Uh, I was planning a gender party at home, also quite big for people coming from abroad, and some of them already booked their tickets. But um, I kept uh a few relatives and I invited uh yoga dollars to my home. So all together we explored all the parts of the house where I can give birth and what poses I can take. So I still uh decided to make out of it something interesting. But yes, with amniotic fluid, it was kind of I I never discussed it with my gynecologist. I went to her a few weeks back for the control and everything was fine. And she told me, like, with the third one, I will not send you to Dreamly because Dreamly was really a very uh scary experience for me. I haven't been in the hospital uh before that, and every time I was coming there, it was um double or triple amount of time for CTG because they always uh take the average that, like from the age perspective, you might have risk, or you didn't have this water, so you might have risk. And when you ask, okay, in the current state, baby is okay? Yes, baby is okay, so why cannot I go home? And they are like, okay, let's test 10 more things before you go home just to be sure. And all these additional tests just were quite um exhausting for me because the whole pregnancy I was mostly with midwife. I went to the doctor twice. That's it. I was with all other visits with midwife. So uh the last months I had the amount of ultrasounds and CTGs more than in the whole two pregnancies together before that month.

Julia 8:55

Well, yeah, it can really feel sometimes like when you enter the hospital doors that you're like on the conveyor belts, and it and it really does feel that way. You feel really trapped by all these different procedures and protocols that are.

Hospital Protocols Versus Instinct

Speaker 9:09

Yes, and they started discussing with me c-sections and emergency c-sections straight away. That like I'm very open-minded. If something is needed to save me or a baby, like I'm happy to discuss, but it's not my first pregnancy, and they went to all the courses, so I really know all the things. You don't need to frighten me with that. Uh and I do feel that I was very strong in my position and I have given birth before, but for the women who are doing it first time, it's so much pressure. Like you really don't need to fight during pregnancy. That's something I could not imagine that you really need to do, especially if there is no risk. So I'm talking about women who do not have preclauseia or some other conditions that are dangerous for their health. I came there absolutely healthy and happy with a baby that is healthy and happy. Yes, maybe baby didn't turn. Yes, maybe we didn't have enough water, but on the time when water was enough, she has enough space to turn. She was actually turning back and forth. Maybe because I was doing a lot of these stimulation uh exercises with uh spinning baby and uh moxa and uh uh massages and other things. I gave her a little bit of uh push, you know, and uh she's not so big. Uh so she had space and she was up and down. So in one day, I could go to ultrasound and to midwife, and they will tell a different position of my baby. So they will tell that she's heads down, heads up, heads down, heads up, heads down, and up. And like that, it was three weeks. So I was week 37 when they told that I need to decide uh if I want her heads up or heads down.

Christine 10:48

You need to decide.

Speaker 10:52

And that was the week when I started thinking, okay, maybe it's her strong will to be born this way. And that's also fine for me, you know. Like I didn't have an expectation that she will turn. I gave her a space and I went for all the options, and I went to Argal to check another doctor who is taking birth vaginally, but not in the uh theater settings like in Trimley. In Trimli, they told that if I want to give birth vaginally, I need to be in the operation room with 10 doctors inside, with the probability that that would not go well in a certain point of time. Uh, and I'm like, oh my god, that's it.

Christine 11:36

I wonder why it wouldn't go well with 10 doctors around you in an operating room to give birth vaginally.

Finding Breech-Friendly Care

Speaker 11:42

Because of this whole amount of people, you know, like I'm like I'm very not happy about that setting. For me, it's something super intimate. And then once I went to them because since uh water and uh her being up, I was going there daily, so that was a disaster. So it was like work. I was coming there every day, and once in two weeks they came to me like they have seen a Jesus and thought today there was a woman, she gave birth veginally for a bridge baby. And I'm like, and why is this the thing? Is it really happening in your case once a year? Or why why are you so happy about it? That should be something absolutely normal. So I started looking around and I found two doctors, one in Aragao and another one in Horgan, recommended by my midwife just to visit them and see. Um, the one in Horgan had uh um holidays during my due date because it's August, like my babies are usually born during holidays. Um, but um during the visit, without telling me anything, uh just random visit, I came with my husband, he took her ac up and turned it to the side. And he's like, Okay, I'm not taking those who cannot turn, but your baby is easily turning. So if you won't come to me next week, if she's not turning, and we will turn her. And this is what I did. Yeah, but I was so not prepared. Like when he really turned it on the visit without even telling me that he's planning to do it, he didn't fully turn it because it's prohibited, I believe, to do in the praxis. You need to have anesthesiologist next to you and all kinds of people. That on that moment, it kind of felt painful. I think because I was not prepared, because afterwards, when he did it in the hospital, it was very quick, less than one minute, and uh absolutely painless. Um, because I was mentally prepared. But in the praxis, I went out, I had pain, and my husband is like, Are you really sure that you want to do it? Let her be as she are she is, and uh, maybe that's the way for her to be born. Like, um, and I told that if this is the way for her to be born, she will turn back. After we turn her, she will turn back. I will not put any corset, I will not push her head down. If there is a reason, maybe I don't know, she has something short, something long, some position is not right, she will turn. And I was absolutely open-minded that like if she turns back, then she turns back. I will not try a second time to turn her.

External Cephalic Version And Bleeding

Julia 14:13

Yeah. So then when you went in um for the proper um turning procedure, she stayed, then she stayed head down.

Induction Pressure And Saying No

Speaker 14:24

Yes, uh, I believe she did. Otherwise, maybe she turned twice again. Uh, that was not the biggest concern. Uh, turn itself went absolutely well. And um I spoke to a few ladies who didn't turn but read a lot about turns because I didn't read a lot about turns. I knew that statistic is not super good. That uh afterwards I read that successfully you turn three out of ten. So, like it's so-so. Um, and uh um after he turned it, uh he left the doctor. He is not a doctor from this hospital, he's just doing uh operations and turns in the hospital. And maybe 15 minutes later he told me that we need to go for a walk, have a dinner somewhere nearby the hospital, and go home. And my husband was in the room and I asked him, Can you check? I don't feel comfortable. I think there is a liquid or water or something going out. And luckily he didn't check, he called for midwife, and I was bleeding, and that was uh um unexpected. So, like, that's not something that you uh should have after the turn. That's also very, very rare complications. Um, in that case, I talked afterwards to Trimley, they would proceed immediately to c section because like they do not know what is this blood, and they would not wait until uh results will come if there is an infant blood in my blood, or it's my vessel, or it's uh placenta, or what is it. So if I would not be in Horgan with the doctor from that moment on, I would be in the operation room with uh emergency cystion. They informed us that that's a possibility. I signed all the papers for emergency section, for anesthesiologist, for whoever. My husband went to take a dinner to our room and uh told them that I might give birth. So we were celebrating Kalina's uh baptism in that restaurant because he booked immediately the date to celebrate something three months later. Uh luckily I didn't give birth that day, but um during 24 hours that I have been there, I have seen maybe 10 people, so seven midwives and three doctors. And everybody I was doing uh I stayed overnight, I was doing um through cater some uh infusion for not having contractions. It's not that I did have contractions, it's I think something again preventative, but uh they continue doing this, and I um continue having uh bleeding. So um everybody tried to convince me if I want to save the baby, me, if I want to be on the safe side, blah blah blah, that maybe I should consider having c-section. And while there is no contractions and nothing bad happening, we can do a planned c-section. Wow, such a great thing, instead of emergency c-section. And uh I was in the same room uh with a lady that I met in uh uh Christine's practice in yoga. It's like how how it can be such a small world to be in the same room uh with a lady that I met during Kundalini yoga, and um she told that she also came there for a planned checkup. She was 30 weeks pregnant, so like four seven weeks less than me. She gave birth two months later, uh, after me. And they told her that I do not remember exactly, something was wrong with her cervix, so like too small, too close, whatever, something is with her cervix. So they wanted to give her a medication uh for opening the lungs of the baby on 30th week, and she refused, and they kept her in the hospital. So, like after hearing such stories, she gave birth naturally in a normal term. It just like uh for me, no way I ever step in the hospital if I would not be in a condition where it's really needed. Like, it's so much attempts for preventing risks, there is no risks. And I'm sure doctors will hear this podcast and they will think I'm crazy, but really, like in the end, you are the one who is responsible for your baby, you feel it.

Christine 18:54

Yeah, how so these are all experiences that you had during your second pregnancy. How did you decide on a home birth with your first?

Why Home Birth Felt Right

Speaker 19:04

So um, I have very good examples and role models, and I think we need to have those around us to make those decisions because it's not very common in Switzerland, right? Um, the good thing that it's illegal here, because in the country where I'm coming from, in Ukraine, it's illegal to give birth at home. And even though it's illegal, there are still women who are doing it, and there are a lot of literature, a lot of information where with a healthy woman and healthy baby, um, there should not be more complications at home than the hospital because there is no way to induce, there is no way to push, you feel more relaxed, you feel at home. You compare this uh process to all other intimate processes in your life that you have, like your intimacy with your husband. Would you prefer to do it in the hospital or at home? Like all these kinds of things, they are very similar. So um I had my friend, uh, it was exactly in 2022, so war in Ukraine started, and she was even in Switzerland, and she gave three births uh at home, and the third one was solo, so there is no other people except her husband who were present. And um I remember visiting her after giving birth and visiting all other my friends in the hospital, and doesn't matter if it was natural birth, it was with a pedural, it was c-section. Just remember she stand up after giving birth like a few hours, three hours, four hours. She made me a tier coffee, she introduced me to her baby that was still on patenta. And it was such a beautiful moment that I wanted to give the same experience to first myself, second, my husband, third, my child, if possible. I was never pro only, anyway, just home birth, whatever. No, always my back is packed for the hospital. I'm registered in public and private hospital, I'm visiting the doctors and midwives, I'm going to the courses. It was just if it's possible, that would be my preferred way. And uh the biggest support was, of course, for my husband, because without him, if he would be against or frightened or whatever, that would never happen. So we need to be on the same page. And he was very much after the first birth on the same page for the second one. That's why we went through all these additional actions to be able to do it at home and not in the hospital. Even though we found quite a good alternative. So both Argau and Horgan would have been quite a good alternative for us.

First Home Birth Story

Julia 21:45

I love how clearly you're saying that you don't believe in home birth at all costs, right? That you and this is how most moms who have home births, this is what they believe. Yeah. But in media portrayals. Women who have home birth, it's almost like they reduce women who choose home birth and in saying, yeah, they they believe that you know home birth at all costs, and that's not the case. Everyone wants the best outcome for themselves, everyone wants the best outcome for their baby. And for you, home birth is definitely the right place for you to give birth. And I'm really thankful in this setting, like in this podcast setting, of course, I know that you believe this, but I'm really thankful that you really clearly said that. Thank you so much. Hi, Julia here. If you're pregnant, preparing for birth, or navigating those intense early weeks with the newborn, I want you to know you can plan for this time with confidence and support. I am a Zurich-based doula and I support families through pregnancy, birth preparation, and postpartum with services like birth preparation workshops, hypnobirthing plus courses, postpartum massage, and personalized postpartum meal planning, designed to help you feel calmer, more confident, and truly cared for during this time. Supporting families in this way isn't just my work, it is truly my passion. I believe this kind of care is part of a quiet revolution. One where parents are supported, listened to, and valued. You can learn more or book with me at juliathedoula.ch, and you'll find me on Instagram at juliathedoula.ch. And now let's get back to this week's Swiss birth story. So both your babies and are head down later on in pregnancy, which is great.

Speaker 2 23:48

Yes.

Julia 23:48

I hope you felt some relief there, because then you knew, yeah, you didn't have to go and search out, you know, the doctor at Hisland and Arau or Horakin and so on. Um, you can stay home and go with your plan. How did the end of pregnancy and the start of labor look like for you? Did you have early signs of labor?

Second Home Birth: Fast And Serene

Lotus Birth And A Calm Baby

Midwives’ Reflections And Flexibility

Postpartum Round One: Lessons Learned

Speaker 24:06

So um with the first pregnancy, my water actually didn't break. So it didn't break at all. And um it was three days before due date, so 39 weeks, and from 38 weeks, I started doing um special acupuncture, um, deeper one. I started walking a lot, I started just telling the baby that I'm ready and meditating, and I didn't do anything else, so I didn't try to finish all the things in preparation. I was just waiting and telling that that's great time, we all wait for you. Um, you select the right day, but we are open-minded and happy to welcome you any moment. And then Labor started, uh, like I don't know. Um, my mom arrived uh from Ukraine uh on the 31st of March, and uh uh on the 4th of April I gave birth. So I kind of waited for her, I would say, and he waited for grandmother. We did uh very beautiful uh baily painting uh already when I had contractions. So on Saturday I invited friends to welcome and live through the birth experience together in the deep meditation. So we all kind of imagined how it will be and how beautiful will be the moment. And the uh contractions not very regular, were there already. Then on Sunday I had more regular contractions, and Monday called my midwife and told that, like, I believe we're in labor. And she told me that that's not the best day because she has very strong COVID symptoms. And she came to me uh barely alive, you know, like she didn't feel well at 12 uh p.m. So midday. Um, she told me that yeah, your four centimeters open. I didn't feel any pain, right? So this four centimeters open were through the dance, and uh I put ribosa everywhere, I was imagining how it will be. Um I was um like in a hypnosis session, and she like, yeah, it's a first birth, it will not go very quick. We have at least six hours, and she left for six hours. We were alone again going through this um special intimate experience with my husband. Uh, and when it was uh 6 p.m., um, he told me, and I felt also that I would like to get into the water, so we rented a pool, but he doesn't know uh because we were not preparing that we are doing it just to ask what water he should put, of what temperature, like when exactly he should do it. So we called her again, and I believe she arrived around 7, uh, helped with the water, and 8:23, he was born. Uh yes, and um um that was just great. I really enjoyed it. We spent the whole night uh until 12 uh p.m. next day, just three of us with our dog, four of us in the bed. Um, they came, they checked him and recovery, everything was pretty easy and great, and everything was fantastic. And with the second birth after the turn, and uh bleeding stopped, so I was released from the hospital in Trimley. They still pushed me because I was going there every day um to induce, uh, because they believed that the tension in the brain of my baby could be abnormal, and that was very strange for me. What does it mean? Could be abnormal. Is it normal now? Yeah, it's normal, but why it could be abnormal? Because you turned her. Yeah, but I turned her not to induce, I turned her to give birth uh at home. Does she feel well? Yeah, yeah, she's okay, but she can be in stress. Uh okay, so what should we do? We should induce, okay? Can we induce and I go home to give birth? No, you can't. So, like that was such a strange feeling, and I needed to come back and come back and come back. And they actually frightened my midwife. So um they were sending her information and they didn't put the information that baby can be in stress, they wrote that baby is in stress. So uh I called her, and um now uh same midwife that was doing my birth um first time have a team. So there are different team members, and one of the team members who was on duty that week because they changed the duty every week, she told me, like, are you sure that you want to give birth at home? Your baby is in stress. And I'm like, No, that's not what they told me. Like, you can come with me to the hospital and check. Currently, I was one and a half hour on CTG instead of half an hour because they wanted to check that baby's in stress. And during one and a half hour, it was not in stress. So I couldn't stay longer. I told them, you know, my parking ticket already expired, like all my files will be on you because I was expecting to spend here a maximum half an hour. And um after that I received a call from the hospital, and they told me that they refused to accept me again, that they can continue to do CTGs with my midwife because um we are both uh on both sides not happy. They are keeping um suggesting induction because they believe it's the best, and they keep refusing. So on both sides, there is dissatisfaction, we do not match. And I'm not planning to give birth there anyway, so I can stop coming. And that was the happiest moment, really. I was so relieved that I did not need to go there. And that was Saturday, and on Sunday they told me to go to my midwife, and I went to midwife, and when I was turning from one side to another because I couldn't lay on one side for too long, the machine was falling out, and she believed that that was a stop heart uh of a baby because it was there, it just fell out. But um, she told me that I need to go to the doctor, and that was really upsetting because I couldn't go to Trimley, I um didn't know where to go, and luckily my initial doctor who sent me to Trimley was back from holidays, it was the first day from holidays, and I'm sure she had a lot of appointments and whoever that wanted to see her, and without uh further ado, I just told her that I'm coming because I feel I will give birth the next few days, right? So, like I do not want to do it with a midwife who is afraid and have a fear that there is a problem. So I went to my initial doctor with who I was also uh with my first birth the last week because I changed the doctor on the 39th week with the first one who suggested me to do this action. I changed it, and then um she checked and she's like, Your baby is perfect, there is no stress, uh, it's already down, you will give birth the next few days, see you six weeks later. And with this mindset, she called to my uh midwife. She also sent her all the information that baby is in a good position, with the good brain pressure, with the great placenta that it's connected and everything. And then in today's I gave birth. I was afraid that I will give birth at night because that's usually what's happening during normal cycle. And I was preparing my son to be with his grandparents or my dad or whoever, because I don't know how it will go, how long, how vocal I can be, so he's not frightened. And then it's Wednesday, I'm waking up having breakfast, and during breakfast, I'm kind of feeling something, and I'm like, Can it be contractions? And that's quite regular. So I'm calling my midwife, we're talking 10 minutes, and during that 10 minutes I have like four contractions, and she's like, Okay, I'm coming. So um I woke up at 9, she came at 10:30 because I live a little bit remote. Uh pool was already uh here but without water. Uh when she came, I was already four centimeters open. Um it was a beautiful warm day in August, so I went. I live in the forest now. I went to the forest where I put the bursling uh that I rented from Christine. And um, I spent there a little bit of time. Then my husband joined me and we had some dance with Ribozo. Um, then midwife told me that she's asking the second midwife to come because they need to be two, one for baby, one for me, just in case. We went to the bedroom and she told that position is not optimal, so she showed me in what position I should lay. And then it was 12, so like she was one and a half hour there, and she told me that I need to decide now if I want to give birth in the bed or in the pool because it's happening. Um I'm like, okay, let's try the pool. I went to pool, I stepped in the pool, the water broke, and the next minute I gave birth. So it was 56 seconds. Um, I give birth at 1.13, I believe. I have a video. Second, my wife just arrived and she was there to take a video. It really took 56 seconds, and I catched her by myself, I put her on my breast. Um, interesting comparison with the first one, her head was perfect, so it was not long, it was round because she was heads up all the time, right? So um, she was just um perfect. And um I tried this time also to do something differently, so I never cut uh placenta. Placenta was dried out four days later, so I was keeping her on placenta for four days afterwards.

Christine 34:26

The umbilical cord fell off on its own.

Speaker 34:28

Yeah, yeah.

Christine 34:29

I love the I love the visual in the forest and the birthling with your husband, dancing, just so much joy in that story.

Forty Days Rest And Healing Tools

Speaker 34:39

Yes, it was beautiful. It was like I also invited the photographer, family member, and my husband is like, Can you send her home? We will call her when you will be given birth. Like this is uh this will take time because in his memory contraction started three days earlier. Not so uh frequent, but still like he believed that it could take some time. But actually, I gave birth during my son's nap. So he went for a nap, he woke up, and the sister is there. So he didn't need to leave. We were all in the bed, cuddling, and uh, this time I took really it seriously, so I stayed at home without leaving anywhere for 40 days. So um, first four days I couldn't even dress her, right? She was on uh placenta with umbilical court, and it's drying so quickly that I couldn't imagine, I couldn't turn her. So to breastfeed her, he should just need to lay and I need somehow to position myself on top of her because any turn with the dry placenta just not comfortable for her, it's like scratching her or something, so like she was laying. And meanwhile, because it was first time for me, and even for my girlfriend who gave birth three times at home to keep so long child um with the plazenta, I called to a couple of midwives, some of them were in Colombia or whatever, because it's more common in Latin America to do that, and they told me that I what um I can use uh for these red uh marks because it was kind of a scratches from the uh umbilical cord that is dried, and I was already a little bit frightened that maybe there is an infection or something because um with uh placenta I was washing it two or three times per day. I was adding salt and spices, like whatever was written in the book to do it because it's a piece of meat, right? So it needs to be in the way, and you do not know how long it will be there. It can be four days, it can be two weeks, you do not know. So I was very, very close to stop that beautiful experience. But luckily, uh everything worked out, and then the moment when she didn't have umbilical cord and placenta, everything seems to be so easy because I could bring her everywhere. I could by myself take her in my hands, I can dress her. Like everything that people are telling, oh, those first days they are so difficult. For me, in the second, everything became so easy. So it's kind of a side effect of giving her all the uh blood and uh cells and everything that was in placenta, because it in the end was a third of the size of my first one because I kept uh placenta from my first from my son to plant it, and then I forgot to plant it, so it wasn't the fridge until recently. And I could compare because the second one I also put in the fridge because um we wanted to plant it um when we have a tree, and now both of them are planted. And I do believe that uh first time he was also quite long uh with um all the blood coming to him, no pulsation, very wide, but of course we cut it after some time, a few hours, I believe. And uh with the second one, it's such a big difference how much she took from that placenta to herself. And maybe it's her character, maybe it's placenta, maybe it's birth story, maybe it's all together. But she is the calmest baby I ever seen in my life. She sleeps perfectly, she almost never cries. She's so happy. And I hope that I contributed to that, not only with my genes, but also with my best intentions during pregnancy and giving birth and taking care of her.

Christine 38:34

And what an what an extremely peaceful way to come into the into this world, if you think of the experience that a lot of babies have. I mean, this is couldn't wish for anything better, I think.

Speaker 38:46

Absolutely. And they can feel her character. He's quite she's quite stubborn, so like being uh that position and not this position, or now doing some things her way. She's so small, not three months even, but already so stubborn. But she's a lion, so my mom is also a lion. I know those women, they are stubborn.

Julia 39:10

I love that when you get glimmers of their character, and then when they're here, you kind of be like, oh yeah, that that was you. I get it now. It all kind of makes sense. Well that's so lovely.

Christine 39:26

Hi, I'm Christina, a doula, baby wearing consultant, childbirth educator, and mother of three. I'm the owner of Lily Bee, a family hub in Zurich where you can find resources, community, and support in English as you begin your journey into parenthood. It takes a village. Find yours here.

Julia 39:49

And yeah, Christina, like you said, about the visual, like I you described everything so, so, so wonderfully. Um, what were your midwife's responses to your birth experience? Because, like, I'm thinking about your first one. She was so ill and she didn't have to be there for very long, which is probably really advantageous for her. And then the second one as well. Um, what were their responses? Did they did they say they often see births like yours, or that it's not so common?

Brilliant Moment: Morning Cuddles

Speaker 40:19

So it's not so many midwives who are taking home births, and this is the praxis that is doing home births. So, yes, they do see home births, and the one who had COVID came in the end to my second birth as well and took a video. So that was her again. Um, yeah, they write the birth stories, and I sent one of them. Uh, this is my story to Christine. So um, they loved it, they loved the experience, and they really felt um the same way as you mentioned that in case if they will tell me in any moment that this is time to go to the hospital, that I would not be against. Yeah, I I'm fully in, even if I started at home, if there is a need to do that. And again, I depends how I feel during the pregnancy. I hope I will be pregnant again. And if during the pregnancy I feel that home is not the right place to give birth, doesn't matter if I gave birth at home two times, that would be differently the third time. So that was quite important for them to see that I'm not fanatic of home birth. That's not really who I am. I just want to give a choice to me and to my children to be born the way I feel that's right for them, not necessarily for somebody else, and not necessarily even for my third baby. So we will see how how it will be. Because my husband, when I was just pregnant with the second baby, asked, So we're doing it again at home. And I'm like, I don't know. Let's see how it will be. I I need to feel it. Um, so the same way uh midwives were very happy and uh hoped that they would experience that again.

Julia 42:04

Oh, lovely. Um, could you, if it's okay with you, could we then move on to your postpartum? I love that you have this, you did your 40 days with your second baby, but you you seem to have not done that with your first. Um can you yeah, just talk us through those experiences?

Speaker 42:22

Yes, so birth and pregnancy with the first one was without much of the surprises, partly because I didn't have time. So I was really um helping my relatives to get out from the country where it's a war. So I didn't have time for spinning baby exercise or turning baby. He was also head up until week 38. I just didn't put much of the attention of that, and he turned on the week 39. And I changed the doctor on the week 38 because he was pushing for C-section, and I was not feeling that that's the right way to go with the baby. And then when they arrived from day four or five, I was in the migration lines. We were like, because birth was so easy. I thought, okay, I don't need really to recover. Recover from what? From this wonderful experience of giving birth. I didn't have stitches, I didn't have bleeding. Why should I recover? What is wrong? And in my case, from my um uh I believe that in in a family, um, we do not have usually big bellies and they uh go away very quickly. So a week after, you would never say that I was ever pregnant. I lost uh all the 20 kilos that I gained in the first week. And uh, like because I couldn't do much, I didn't do much, right? Like it's just happening. So luckily, um, from the family perspective, my mom had been the same, and um I was feeling that that's it, and just give birth, and that's normal. And unfortunately, doesn't matter how you gave birth, was it natural c section or whatever, it just meant to. Be that you need to recover. You were pregnant for nine months, and even if it was an amazing experience, there is other nine months or more. You need to recover in all different ways. So I made my lesson. I had a lot of troubles. I was bleeding much longer, and I thought that there are some infections, or maybe even part of placenta inside, or whatever, because at home you cannot make those examinations easily. So it was difficult. And I started doing exercises probably too early. So I would not say that I had enormous uh rectal diastasis or something like that, but still the memory of postpartum was not um one that I would give as an example to anyone. So that's not how I want my daughter to do it, that's not how I want my friend to do it. That's why I decided that the second time I will do differently. And I read a lot about postpartum, and I read a lot about different countries, how they are doing it. I also pre-organized a lot of things, all the meals and help and whatever. I was really telling to my husband that the only thing I can do is breastfeeding the baby, and that's already much more than my body can even do because it was so, so, so important to recover. And he was surprised because he remembers with the first baby week after we made a huge party with a lot of visitors because I was feeling kind of, I thought, well, this time I thought I don't want to see anyone until we until 40 days. I don't want to leave the house. Maximum to breathe. We live in the forest. I open the window and breathe. I do not go with a stroller, somebody else is doing it. I'm lame, breastfeeding, and maybe standing up to take a shower, and that's it. And I live in a separate room, I'm not disturbed by my older child. You're taking care of it, you're bringing him to kindergarten, you are feeding him, you are playing with him, you can bring him to kiss me, and I do not know if I'm doing more. And that's how it was. I was really, really, really strict, especially uh after the first week when she was on placenta. Um, it damaged a little bit the nipples because I couldn't position her, right? Even though I am a pro of breastfeeding, I can position everybody, but I couldn't take her from the bed, so I couldn't really make things. So I needed to rent um a laser for the um recovery process. Uh I didn't know before that you can rent them. I thought you need to go to the hospital, and because I couldn't leave the home and I wouldn't, and I didn't want, I thought maybe I just need to remember how it was first time.

Julia 46:50

But actually, I didn't know. I didn't know that you could rent them. I knew that your midwife could bring it home, like two years old. No, I rented it, I had no idea you could actually rent one. Yes, really interesting. I've learned something new.

Speaker 47:01

You can put your glasses, you can even apply it to the baby if baby is nearby for uh whatever recovery she needs. There is small glasses for a baby as well. And you know what? For the whole week, seven days, it's 200 Swiss francs, and I was using it like eight times per day. So after every breastfeeding and before every breastfeeding, and like really, and it took me less than a week to recover everything. Wow. I even uh told to my friend that if she needs, I can give it to her, she's a neighbor because she had the same problem. It's amazing that you can rent the laser and just do it on your own because it's not difficult, you just need not, yeah, it's super easy, you just need to have it.

Julia 47:45

Yeah, did you rent it from your midwife? Like, how did I do it?

Speaker 47:47

My midwife didn't have it, so I was in the um chats and they asked, and uh, it's a third recommendation of midwife. So I asked one midwife, it's also territorial, so you can like they do not want to bring it to you if you're in not in their territory, and they live in Albi, so it needs to be somebody on this side. So, in the end, they were recommending me a person. She came to me, she did also the lactation consultation and um planted me this amazing device. It's incredible what it did to me. And since that time, my breastfeeding is amazing. Week six, I went to the doctor, she told me that everything is great. I also did a couple of massages for organs to be in the same, in the right uh places, everything at home. So, so many things now you can do at home. Um, it's quite difficult not to leave home for 40 days, not from the perspective that nobody is helping you, but just mentally, you're staying in the bed the whole day. But I was reading a lot of literature, I was sleeping a lot. Like this time, I was just sleeping a lot with the same schedule as my baby. Of course, I couldn't sleep 18 hours like she did, but maybe 12 hours per day. I feel so relaxed, so happy. I'm enjoying so much uh being mother of two children, and uh they are very, very, very, very easy ones for me. And now I'm going to um uh Rückbildung, Yoga, Pilates, Reformer. I didn't know how it will be, that's why I booked something every day because I thought the nights will be difficult, and one day I go, and another day I don't. So uh I go twice a week to Leimbach, once to Adliswil, once to Bollishofen, and once in my village in Oichta Maldes to Yoga Pilates, back in bodent training, reformer and meditation.

Christine 49:43

So you had this super relaxing, slow start, and now you're back into it, and wow, and I feel very good about it.

Speaker 49:54

I feel finally that I can do something because I remember when I went to those exercises too early uh in my first pregnancy, it was so simple, but I had pain everywhere, and I'm like, why is that? I had such a great birth, why is that? But actually, it doesn't matter which birth you had, you have been pregnant, your organs have been squeezed the same way as with any other woman. So recovery should be slow, should give yourself time.

Julia 50:22

Absolutely, and I think that um if you've had an amazing birth, you can have an even like more pronounced hormonal or and or energy rush, and it's really important, it's super important to ignore that and still rest when you're so fresh postpartum, and to be like, Yes, I feel so good, isn't that great? Now get back in bed, yeah, and that's difficult.

Speaker 50:47

Like, girl, that would be a paradise. I will enjoy it so much. But when your toddler is running around, playing football, the weather is beautiful, everything is amazing. People want to congratulate you, give you presents, visit, come, and you just tell them, No, I will be in the bed. And they're like, Are you sick? No, I'm absolutely fine. I'll just stay in the bed.

Julia 51:08

Yeah, also giving birth in like the height of summer in Switzerland. That's I mean, you're really pulled to being outside, like because it's so wonderful here. Yeah, you're like, Oh, I'm gonna take my newborn to the body, it's fine. I'll bring the stroller, I'll bring the carrier, whatever. But no, you have the next year to go to the body when they're a toddler, and it will be more fun, and you'll really benefit.

Speaker 51:31

But as soon as uh 40 days uh came to my calendar, we booked a flight and we went for two weeks to Sardinia.

Julia 51:40

Amazing.

Speaker 51:41

Prolong a little bit our summer in October during the kindergarten holidays. So that was also quite a great experience. It was super easy.

Julia 51:50

That is a brilliant, brilliant, brilliant idea. I love it. Um, Christina, did you have any more questions uh before we ask our last one?

Christine 52:00

Um, I did have one thing. I just want you mentioned it a couple times, and I just want to kind of highlight it, which is that with your first pregnancy at 38, 37, 38 weeks, towards the end, you switch doctors.

unknown 52:13

Yeah.

Christine 52:13

And you kind of blazed over it. But especially like those your first. With the second, like you said, you have a little bit more confidence, you know what you want. But especially having done that with the first, I just want to highlight that. That that's something you can do, that that's something, you know, it's never too late if you get a feeling if what they're telling you doesn't align with what you're feeling.

Speaker 52:31

But yeah, I believe through the whole pregnancy, maybe that was not the best choice. I would not put names, but um I had quite high hormone when I did my first pregnancy test. So there was a big risk, or not risk, big chance, it's an opportunity to have multiples. And I found a doctor that is specializing in multiples. But imagine one thing, he's specializing in multiples, B, what it brings, he's specializing in c-sections. So um, the whole pregnancy, it was super great equipment. He was giving me 3D images of my baby every time. I have seen how he would look like from I don't know, 12th week and so beautiful and so amazing. But then when I came to him 38 weeks, he's like, You're almost too late. We need to do cisection now. And that was the last time I have seen him. I have told him, Thank you. I will talk to my husband, and we never came back to him. And I spoke to my midwife and I asked who I should go because, like, not everybody will accept somebody 38 weeks pregnant, uh, with desire to have a home birth for the first child. And she gave me um my doctor um that didn't make even an ultrasound because it was almost 39 weeks, and she's like, What would I see there? Like, what should I check? She came to me and she's like, We have seen the faces, we will see each other in six weeks. That's it.

Christine 53:59

That's fantastic.

Speaker 54:01

That is fantastic. She didn't examine anything. She told me that she will receive if she will receive everything from the doctor. I actually took the USB stick that I gave to her. Probably she never opened it. By that time, luckily, my son already turned, so she didn't check, she just believed to midwife the told that he's in the right position, and that's it. Such doctors exist.

Julia 54:25

Yeah, that's rare. I was gonna say that's that's a rare gem.

Speaker 54:29

But even though it's not that she doesn't care really in this pregnancy, she's oh, she doesn't care.

Julia 54:38

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow, Katarina, this conversation has just been like uh absolutely amazing. I've really enjoyed it. I can't wait to get this out there for moms. But before we go, we always ask a final question to sort of end our time together. And it is a difficult one, it's kind of a vague one intentionally. Um, the question is in this whole process, this whole amazing transformation to motherhood, what would you say is your most brilliant moment?

Speaker 55:11

The most brilliant moment is every morning to wake up with kids that are hugging you and sometimes in a very difficult position because now one wants a breast and another wants a hand. So I'm kind of trying to lay like that, and another one is on top of me. Our dog is also very um interested in my time. He just sleeps on top of me and I'm always warm. But that's the beauty, the most beautiful time that is now hopefully will be with me for the next couple of years, um, until they would prefer their dad or somebody else to wake up with.

Julia 55:48

That is lovely. There's not a dry eye here, Christina. Oh, that's just yeah, you're right. That is brilliant.

Speaker 55:58

Yeah, but some people are telling like how to put kids out of your bed. My older one is actually sleeping in his bed and coming only in the morning. But this is the most precious moment I have. I really love it. And my husband recently told me, okay, maybe we should tell him to go to sleep on his own. He's already three and a half, he can definitely do it. And I'm like, then you will take from me the most beautiful moment of my evening when he's telling me what he likes this day and what he doesn't, and tell his stories. So as long as he accepts me in his bed in the evening, I will be there.

Christine 56:32

Oh thank you so much, Katrina, for sharing.

Julia 56:39

Yeah, really wonderful.

Speaker 56:41

Thank you, ladies, for doing it.

Julia 56:49

Thank you so much for tuning in to another episode of Swiss Birth Stories. If you enjoyed today's episode, we'd love for you to subscribe to the podcast so you never miss an inspiring birth story or expert insight. Your support means the world to us and helps this community grow. So please also take a moment to rate and review wherever you get your podcasts. Your feedback helps us reach even more parents to be. Don't forget to share this episode with a friend or loved one who could benefit from it. And be sure to follow us on social media at SwissBirth Stories for even more tips, resources, and updates on upcoming podcast guests, courses, and events. We'd love to hear your thoughts, questions, and birth stories too. So feel free to DM us, fill out the form on our website, SwissBirthStories.com, or tag us in your posts. Until next time, keep sharing, keep learning, and keep connecting with each other.