S03E08 Kaitlin: From Textbook to the ICU. Preeclampsia, HELLP, and Finding Your Footing Postpartum

Kaitlin's resources are below this description. 

Her pregnancy is “textbook” until a routine late-pregnancy check reveals high blood pressure and protein in urine, and suddenly every day feels like a decision point. We’re joined by Kaitlin, an American-Swiss mother living in Zurich, who walks us through severe preeclampsia monitoring, a surprise ICP diagnosis after relentless itching, and how quickly things can escalate when your body starts sending warning signs at 35 to 36 weeks.

Kaitlin shares what labour looked like for her: blood draws, spontaneous preterm labour, low-dose misoprostol when it stalled, and an epidural experience that doesn’t go the way anyone hopes. When her lab values shift into HELLP syndrome territory and her baby shows signs of distress, the team recommends a time-sensitive C-section. Kaitlin describes the fear, the relief, and the small, grounding moments that still break through, including meeting her baby and finding calm together even in the operating room.

The story keeps going after birth, because her hardest stretch is postpartum: the intensive care unit (ICU) is a part of their story. In this part of the story, we hear about magnesium drip side effects, swelling and slowed recovery, and then the whiplash of going home to the newborn feeding cycle. We also get practical and honest about breastfeeding challenges, including thrush versus vasospasm pain, and what helped her keep going. Kaitlin closes with the long view: follow-up care after preeclampsia and HELLP syndrome, future pregnancy risk, and why self-advocacy matters long after discharge.

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Kaitlin's Resources: 

Books:

• For early pregnancy: Expecting Better by Emily Oster
• For birth preparation (highly recommend!): Nurture: A Modern Guide to Pregnancy, Birth, Early Motherhood - and Trusting Yourself and Your Body 

English-speaking resources in Zurich that I can recommend:

• Barbara Ghisla Schibli, my amazing postpartum midwife - https://hebamme.ghisla.ch/en
• Dr. med. Theodosia Charpidou, gynecologist (FMH) at SihlGynPraxis - https://www.gynaekologie-zuerich.ch/en
• Dr. phil. Olivia Bolt, psychologist with specialisation in birth trauma - https://www.oliviabolt.ch
• Birthlight, pre and post-natal yoga & rückbildung - https://www.birthlight.ch/en/Home.htm

Transcript

Welcome And Content Note

Julia 0:08

Hi, and welcome to Swiss Birth Stories. I'm Julia Neal, mother, doula, hypnobirthing specialist and perinatal educator.

Christine 0:17

And I'm Christina Bliven. I'm a doula, baby wearing consultant, childbirth educator, and mother of three.

Julia 0:24

Caitlin's pregnancy was textbook until it wasn't. It was at 36 weeks when pre-eclampsia, help syndrome, and ICP changed everything. What followed was a long, complex labor at Tremley Spital in Zurich, labor augmentation, an epidural that, put simply, did do what it was supposed to: a cesarean birth, a stay in the ICU, and a very long and complex recovery time. Caitlin has done the work, the research, the expert consultations, the hard questions, and she comes to this conversation incredibly grounded and generous. There are parts of this episode which may be hard to listen to. Certainly, there were parts we thought we may edit out, but decided to keep the story in its entirety because that's what Swiss Firth Stories is for. In Caitlin's own words, it doesn't seem like it gets better, but it does. Let's dive in.

Kaitlin’s Background And Family

Christine 1:27

Hello, Caitlin. Welcome.

Kaitlin 1:30

Thank you. Pleasure to be here.

Christine 1:32

Thank you so much for joining us. We would love to start just by having you introduce yourself and tell us a little bit a little bit about who you are, where you're from, uh, who is in your family.

Kaitlin 1:45

So I grew up in the US and moved to Geneva as an exchange student about 15 years ago. That's when I met my husband. We were living in Geneva. He's Swiss German, and we lived, I'd say, on and off in Switzerland for the last 15 years, but mostly in the French part. And then moved to Zurich two years ago, just actually prior to getting pregnant. And so now I have a beautiful little daughter who's 13 months old. And that's our family of three here in Zurich.

Julia 2:19

That's lovely. Could you tell us then a little bit about when you knew it was the right time for you guys to start a family, or just maybe you didn't know how that looked for you?

Kaitlin 2:30

I think it was a long kind of discussion process. We didn't always know that we wanted to have kids, but there reached a moment. I'd been working abroad, I work in the humanitarian sector, so I'd just come home from a year away, and we thought the moment was right. And it happened a lot faster than we thought. And so actually, my husband was getting ready to go do field work of himself. So he was gone for the first two months. But he uh like in the one week that we knew before he left, he went to the store and bought like six bags of non-perishable groceries of everything heavy that I might need during those two months. So I was really well set uh without him. Um, but I would say that the first trimester, so my pregnancy was very textbook. That's how I always described it, until the moment that it became not textbook. It became the footnote of the textbook, I would say. But like at the start, first trimester, I was sick, but not too sick, just like the the middle amount of sick. Um I was starting a new job with a new team, and I was traveling a lot to meet them, and so I was always carrying with me this bag of snacks, and none of them knew that I was pregnant, so I was just this crazy new team member who was always eating all of the time.

Julia 3:52

Um and so did anything that you're did anything that your husband get actually fill the like that like, you know, because you can get into some niche stuff when you're in the when you have the nausea that's only abated by food, the things that can that can uh like put that plug in the nausea or just like quell it a little bit could be pretty random. Did he did he succeed at all in his um foreshadowing or predictions?

Kaitlin 4:17

I asked him for a lot of crackers and he brought home tons of Davida, which was almost really great, except that he like got all these flavors like chili and sour cream, which were really not what I needed.

Julia 4:28

You're thinking saltines, yeah.

Kaitlin 4:30

Exactly. I did pick up saltines myself. We were still finishing that Davida, I think, until like a month ago. But yeah. Um and then uh second trimester, he came back, and that was, I'd say, like a super special period. Um, we did a baby moon then um to this hotel that they they had special packages for for pregnant people, and so all of their guests were either retired couples or pregnant couples. There was nothing in between, and so we said, okay, we'll make a date to come back here then when we're retired and the kids are all grown up and everything. Um, and

Textbook Pregnancy And Birth Prep

Kaitlin 5:10

that was really really beautiful. And then I I think the preparation started, and so I read so much, uh, really like to read and be prepared. Um we went to the different hospitals, uh, the university hospital, Trimley did different comparisons. Trimly has their new birth ward, so went to like their open day because it had just opened a couple months prior. Um, and so we decided, yeah, Trimly is the place, love it, um, did a birth prep course, which he particularly loved. And this was also the first time I started to read a little bit about pregnancy complications. And so, I mean, you'll see later in the story, spoiler alert, I ended up with something called help syndrome. And so when I was reading, actually, I was telling my husband, like, oh, there's this thing called preeclampsia, they'll always be monitoring for it. It sounds pretty serious. And so we talked about what it was, and then I said, and there's this other thing that's listed under there, help syndrome, but if you get that, you're just screwed. And then we stopped reading. So um, we already kind of had in our heads like this is a scary term. Um, and then everything was still pretty fine up until like week 34 of the pregnancy. I was like still traveling for work, I was pretty active, I had a lot of insomnia, but that's something that's been part of my life for a while, so it didn't stand out. Um,

Week 35 Red Flags And Monitoring

Kaitlin 6:32

and then I went for my like 35-week control with the gynecologist. Uh I um so we found that my um blood pressure was high and I had protein in my urine. So she said, okay, go straight to the hospital. Um, she gave me the referral. I want you to get a test there. And so we really, really liked the gynecologist. I had a lot of respect for her, and so she took it quite serious, and I'm still very grateful to her for that. So at the hospital, they did um some blood work and found um that my levels were okay, but I had a high likelihood of developing pre-eclampsia, they said. And so it was actually that day I was supposed to go to 50% at work. Um, I mean, I was still five weeks from my due date. Uh I was planning to take three weeks, full weeks off before that. Um, my mom was going to be coming in in a couple weeks, well in advance, also. And but then from there it was just, okay, you're off work. Um, this is gonna happen probably soon, so get ready. Um fortunately, I didn't have to stay in the hospital. I could go home, bought a blood pressure machine, um, and had to just check that all of the time. And they said, so at least three, four times a day. And if it's high, call us. And so, as it happened, it was high every day. So every day we were on the phone with the hospital kind of saying, okay, do we come in, do we not? Um, and so for the next week, we were in, I'd say, every one to two days going back, either because my blood pressure was high, or because it was like the regular appointment. Uh, because they had scheduled them every couple days. And every time they would say, Okay, come in. We don't know, maybe we'll have to induce you. It depends on what your levels are. And of course, like we had nothing set up, we had nothing ready. I mean, I'd done the mental work, but like physically preparing. So we're here just trying to desperately buy some baby clothes, premature size, and things like that. Um, and a lot of those hospital visits were in the middle of the night because my blood pressure tended to go up in the evening. So then we'd go in late. Um, and every time you go, they do like the CTG. So you have to stay for quite a while and then they have to wait for the blood work. So, like by the end of this week, we were really sleep deprived, both myself and my husband from all of these hospital trips.

Julia 9:08

And what can you remind us what week what week pregnancy was this?

Kaitlin 9:12

This so it's the I always forget if it's like the 35th week or I was 35 weeks pregnant. Yeah. So I was two weeks away from being at term. Yeah.

Julia 9:24

But still, like still like yeah, very much in the premature category.

Kaitlin 9:29

Yeah.

Julia 9:30

Oh man. I mean, we talk so much about rest and how important rest is when we're preparing for this for the task of giving birth to our children, and there is no rest. Also, mentally, this is like, you know, every time, every evening, like maybe I'm gonna have a baby, you know. Like I can't imagine just the mental gymnastics of it and the yeah, the premi. What size is premi? You know, all these questions that come up, and okay, what does it look like when a baby's in the NICU? These are not the kinds of things that you hear about or that you necessarily prepare for. Man, um, what were um if you don't mind me asking, you don't have to answer this, but what were your blood pressure readings like in the evenings when they were getting high?

Kaitlin 10:17

Um, I remember the systolic one was often like 180, I want to say, sometimes 190. Oh, I forget the lower one, because the lower one was a little more normal. I think it was like around 110 or so. It's still high. Um the thing was I'd never monitored my blood pressure at at the time. So these these values, they didn't screw it, they were like, okay, they're high, but that doesn't mean much to me. And like I was telling like, you know, my family this, and they're like, that's not okay. Like, you need to go.

Julia 10:50

Um so yeah, it's one of those things that like if you if you've gone through your whole life with completely normal blood pressure or completely whatever, and then suddenly it changes, you have like a whole new language to learn of like, okay, what does this mean? What is what is systolic? What is distolic? What what are these values? Like it's a whole and you're getting ready to have a baby. It's just a lot.

Kaitlin 11:12

Yeah. And

ICP Itch Google And Testing

Kaitlin 11:14

in the middle of that week, so this is like again the 35th week, uh, going back and forth. One of the nights I woke up and I was just super itchy. And what is this? And so I start Googling, what does everyone do? And I read about this thing, ICP, um, intraheptic cholestasis of pregnancy. And it said, like you itch on your hands and feet, and I was itching on my belly. And so I was like, okay, probably not that. I'm really skeptical of you know, Google diagnosis, but I went into the, I had to go in anyways, because regular checks, yeah. So I asked them, I said, can you just check for the cholestasis? And they checked, and sure enough, I had developed ICP as well. Um, fortunately, the levels were not severe because I I now know, I did not realize at the time that if the levels are are too bad, uh, it causes a real risk of stillbirth. Um, but at the time, the ICP was just totally overshadowed by the pre-eclampsia. And so, not many conversations about it. Um, it was just this pain in my neck that was just like keeping me up at night because I was itching all the time. And I say I pain, I mean annoying, not actual literal pain. Um and I do have to say it was not the last time that Dr. Google helped me out. And so, as skeptical as I am of it, like all of this that we talk about, like advocating for yourself, not like insisting over top of doctors if they're saying something different, but being able to say, like, hey, could you, I read this, would you mind checking for it? Really helped. Um and so yeah, so we ended up I'm 36 weeks. It's been a week of this back and forth. And I went into the hospital for the next check. And um they said, okay, your levels are still okay. So um we're gonna try to get you to 37 weeks. Like we think it'll be all right. Um, and I was on my way home.

Labour Starts Amid Preeclampsia

Kaitlin 13:14

It was the afternoon at this point, and I felt my first contraction. And I didn't know it was a contraction at the time, but through the evening they started getting more frequent. Um, and so somehow my body ended up going into labor that same day. Um they had done a cervical check, but I asked later, and they absolutely did not do anything to induce it. Um and so throughout that evening, this is a Monday, the contractions um were basically making my blood pressure get really high. Uh, so that's the levels that I was saying when they were getting closer to 200. And so we called Trimley and they said, come in, let's have you checked. Uh, they said at the time that it was Sankt Bayen, which I think in English is like false labor. Um, and so I was there till like about midnight, and then they said, You can go home, see what happens. So we got a couple hours of sleep again, and then at 3 a.m. they started coming like a lot more intensively. Um, and by 5 a.m., so this is Tuesday morning, 5 a.m., they were less than five minutes apart. So called dreamly and go back to the hospital. Um, and this time, you know, they're walking us back to the room. And on the way, suddenly there was like this big alarm going off that another mom in labor was in need of like emergency assistance. And so everyone, all the midwives are going running and everything. And the one who was escorting us to the room, she was like, Can would you mind just waiting here in the hallway? I need to go attend to this. We're standing there as it's going off, and we're just like, Oh, I really hope she's okay. And like, is this an omen for us? Um, so it was just all these little things that uh yeah, but we were still in good spirits. I was still in good spirits. Um, and they so when I arrived that time, they said that I it was labor, but I wasn't dilated like at all. And they wanted to admit me, nevertheless, because of the pre-eclampsia, um, and because my blood pressure was so high. And so uh this is when the next challenge happened. Uh, they needed to install a IV. Um, so it's a preventative measure that they always have the IV in. If you have pre-eclampsia, in case things would go bad, um, they need to have that already installed. I already knew that I have difficult veins, but I'd never been in the hospital, so I didn't know the extent of those difficult veins. So they had um a couple of the midwives try it, and finally they called the anesthesiologist who came with the ultrasound. First, they tried free, and then they said, okay, we're going to use the ultrasound machine like on your veins to find it in your arm. And with that, it worked. Um and so I spent Tuesday kind of in labor. The contractions were super regular. Like I expected it to be this curve where they start spread out and then they get close together, but like it was all over the place. Sometimes they were 15 minutes apart, sometimes they were three minutes apart. Um, and throughout all of this, they were like checking my blood pressure every half hour and also doing the blood draws to keep making sure that everything in my body was functioning okay. Um, but I think that was probably the most normal part of a labor. Like I could do the warm bath, um, which was really nice. I had really been looking forward to that. Um and then by the evening, the labor started to stall. So the contractions were getting farther apart. Um, I could sleep a little bit. This is Tuesday night, but like I still had the itch, of course, of the cholestasis. And like they had to still check my blood pressure every, I think it was half hour or an hour, um, and still do the blood draws. So, and mine, like the blood draws um sometimes through the IV, but then there were other times they needed it from other ports, so they were often coming in and out to do this or that.

Christine 17:26

So, not very restful sleep. No. With the blood pressure cuff going brrrrrr 20 minutes.

Kaitlin 17:33

Um and so in the morning on Wednesday, like this big team of doctors and nurses came in and they said, like, okay, we're gonna do something now to speed up the labor. Um,

Augmentation And Pain Relief Choices

Kaitlin 17:45

we'll give you this oral pill, Angustina, um, that should help it come along. And I should say, like, in the planning. So I was very, I was very prepared. I had like a whole birth binder. Um, and the first part was my birth preferences, not plan, because like the priority that I gave through everything was health of me and the baby is the absolute most important. Um, I did think like I'd like to try as much as possible to not have an epidural, um, just because like I get migraines and cluster headaches, and I was really afraid of this rebound thing. And so, you know, when they said to augment it, it was in the circumstances, even though maybe like a month earlier I would have said no. In the circumstances, I was like, sure, I'm in your hands, I trust you, we do this.

Julia 18:36

Um and like and just just completely reasonable based on the situation that you were in, you know, completely reasonable, right?

Kaitlin 18:45

That's why their preferences with the the pill that like I could have up to it could require up to six of them. So you take them every four hours, and the first one is not likely to do much. And so my mom, she had moved her plane tickets around when all of this is happening, and she'd actually arrived the day that I went into labor. And so uh she came in and had lunch with me just after I took the pill, and then she left, and then something changed. I mean, it was only one of them, but the midwife later said it was like it exploded like a bomb within me. And suddenly the contractions were like every two to three minutes. Um, and they did a cervical check, and I was still not very dilated, but the water broke then during that. And so then it got into okay, the contractions are much more frequent. What can I do to manage this pain? I was clinging to the idea the whole time that I wanted this laughing gas, like that's gonna be the solution. And finally they said, okay, we'll get out the laughing gas. They brought out the tank for it, and then suddenly had this realization that they said it's contraindicated for pre-eclampsia. I still haven't been able to find that myself. And I asked it afterwards at the hospital, and they still weren't really sure. But in the moment, it was uh just this is a no-go. We have to put back the laughing gas. So then I started trying all the other things. I tried the tens machine, I tried another bath, I tried aromatherapy, but like at that point it wasn't, it wasn't enough.

Epidural Delays Then One Sided Relief

Kaitlin 20:25

Um, and so I asked for an epidural. And then it became another, a whole other process. So they said, first you need to be um more dilated, um, which I later learned was a a recommendation rather than like a requirement. So we were waiting and waiting, and then finally I was a few centimeters dilated. Um and then they needed to check my blood levels because of the pre-eclampsia. They needed to be sure that everything would be okay for installing the epidural. And something went crazy with my blood then, because they kept so every time an anesthesiologist has to come with this ultrasound machine. And so, like two of the samples coagulated when they were sending them to the labs. And so each time they had to find a new vein to do it. Um, so at this point, I have like, I don't know, they've tried like six or seven different places in my arms, and ultimately after several hours, they were able to get it from the fingertips. They had to do like four different fingertips to get the blood. Um, and then they finally get it, and they they get the results and they said, Okay, like it's okay, you can get the epidural. And so overall, that process was like maybe six, four, six hours from when I said like I'd like the epidural until they're putting in the epidural. Um and the epidural was great for about 30 minutes. And then it only was working on the on one side of the body. And so I tried this thing like, you know, you're supposed to roll and all of that, but it really was only working on half of the body. Um, so they came and they adjusted the levels, and that helped for a little bit, but then again, I could feel it on half, the contractions, I mean. Uh, and so then they came and they took out the epidural and they reinstalled it. And so each time it's giving me like these nice, wonderful little half-hour spurts where I feel, you know, good and can get a little rest. And then it starts to come back. Um, so I know now, like I talk to them about it, they don't know exactly what happened, but something was wonky with it. Um how to convey this? It was the one of the most difficult, I think, periods that that like overall eight hours. I mean, I was just, it's now I know the timeline and I can say everything matter-of-factly, but at the time I was delirious. I didn't know if it was night or day. I just, I mean, I'm laying on this bed, I cannot move. I have my arms being pricked and prodded. And every time, mind you, that they're taking the blood to do these tests, I'm getting contractions. And so they're constantly pausing the blood, you know, the the it the IVs going in to, okay, let's wait till the contraction's over. My husband was just trying so hard to be supportive, but there was nothing he could do. He said he felt totally desperate seeing me like that. Um and that was also a point where I started to notice that there was some pain, I thought, maybe in my upper um right abdomen, which is where the liver is. And they're always asking you when you have preclamps, they always say, Do you feel any pain in your upper right quadrant? And my answer was always no. And then I I it didn't feel as strong as the rest of the pain I was feeling. So I kind of had this like, Am I crazy? Am I imagining things? But I should just mention it. So I I start, I might be feeling that upper quadrant pain. Um, and so by this point, it is 4 a.m. on Thursday.

HELLP Syndrome And C Section Call

Kaitlin 24:18

So like this all started on Monday, admitted in like the real labor on Tuesday morning. So it's Thursday at 4 a.m. And suddenly, like, this big team of doctors and nurses, uh, midwives come in and they explain look, you are nine centimeters dilated, um, but your health is declining. It is a they called it a race against time with the pre-eclampsia. Um I guess for anyone listening, the the treatment for preeclampsia is removing the placenta. Um, there is no other treatment. So that's why they before things got catastrophic, you know, you have to make sure that that delivery happens. And so at they were also starting to see some signs of distress in the baby's heart, and that was really concerning. And so they said they weren't sure, even though I was nine centimeters, if I would go through the whole pushing, that could put more stress on the baby's heart. And they were worried about that, and therefore they were recommending a c-section. And afterwards in the Nachgesprecht, the like after speak with the the um the head surgeon who operated on me, because spoiler alert, it goes to a c-section. Um she said, she thought I was coming to that nachgesprecht to to like complain about you know why they they sent me to C-section because I I didn't want that. And I was like, actually, that was such a relief when you said C-section. It was like, because I have no idea how I would have pushed a baby out at that point. I was just so spent. And and the sense of like, okay, they're recommending this, this is good, and this is gonna like solve it. That the the placenta will come out, the baby will, God willing, be okay. Um, and I just felt really good and trusting of that decision. And so this was like the second level emergency section. So there's an emergency one, which is like 10 minutes from decision to baby needing to be out, and you go under general for that. And this one was the next one where I think it's a 45 minutes from decision to needing the baby out. Um, but um you're allowed to be awake and everything. So um they gave me some forms to sign, like consent forms. And I I, of course, couldn't read at that point. So I asked my husband to look it over, and he was like, this says help syndrome on it. And so they hadn't mentioned it orally, but at that point my blood values were showing that I had help syndrome. So I I do have to read what the words are for my notes for this one. So the I know you guys probably know this, but for everyone. Um, so that the H is for hemolysis, which is when the red blood cells break apart too fast and it deprives different body parts of oxygen. Um the EL is for elevated liver enzymes, which indicates liver damage, and then the LP is for low platelets, um, which means that it's harder for the blood to clot. So basically, my body inside is just like I don't even have the word for it, but it it says like I'm done with this completely. Um the tricky thing about those low platelets is when the blood doesn't clot, that means they couldn't do a spinal plock. So um normally you should have like at least 150,000 platelets per microliter, whatever it is. And mine got down to 34,000. And so they said, no way, we're not cutting anything in you. Um so they needed to use the epidural that I had. I was like, oh my god, that epidural, that epidural is not working well. Um and I said, it'll be fine, you know, the anesthesiologist will be there. It wasn't totally fine. Um so we got into the the the C section and they start like operating on me, and I realized in one spot on one side, I feel the knife. And I said this to the the like I feel it. Um and the doctor was said, you mean pressure? And I said, No, I feel the knife. And thank God she believed me because she was like, You feel this right here. And I was like, Yes, that. Um, so she understood exactly where I was feeling it. And so the anesthesiologist started debating between them. There were two in the room. I I did not realize this. Again, my husband has told me this story because I'm yeah, too much going on. Um, so they started one of them started prepping the general anesthesiology, like the pipe to incubate me, intubate me, not incubate. Um and the other one then, meanwhile, like upped the dosage of drugs in it. I don't really understand exactly what happened there, but it it got a bit blurrier, and I didn't feel it anymore. So

Birth Moment And First Calm Song

Kaitlin 29:35

that was okay, and it could go on. And I actually have to say, like, it was a really nice experience, the C-section after that. Um, and even the pain itself was not as bad as what had been before, so it didn't like overcloud or anything. Um the so my baby girl, she was born, she was perfect health despite being premature. Like throughout all of this, and and we'll get to like the breastfeeding, everything, like she never had problems. She was just like this happy, nice little healthy baby. The problems were more on my side and my health. And so, like, they took her away for a moment just to give her some oxygen, but she didn't ultimately need it. And so they brought her back and we could do skin to skin. And there was like a really sweet moment where she started crying, and my husband and I, we just started instinctively singing like a song that we know, like a calming song, and she just instantly calmed. And like to still today, she loves music, and music can like totally calm her. And so we got to have this very sweet moment together while they stitched me up and did all of that. Um, and I was feeling pretty good at this point because I'm like, it's out, the placent is out, this is over, right? Like, this is where in the stories it usually ends. Um, and as they're like taking me out of the operating room, um, they're over talking to my husband. I don't really know what's going on, and then he's like, You need to tell her. And so they the doctors come over and they say, sorry, we have to take you to the ICU, um, the intensive care unit for some monitoring just to make sure everything's fine. I'm like, okay, you know, do you want to monitor me a couple hours? I'll go and then I'll come back. Um, we'd always discussed, like, if if the baby needed to go to the NICU, like my husband would go with her. We were okay being separated, it's not ideal. We didn't think it was me who would go somewhere, but like we were prepared. Um, and I just thought it was this preventative thing. Um, but it was actually like the start of what was the really hard part for me. Um

ICU Monitoring And Survival Mode

Kaitlin 31:51

so it the next 24 hours were quite blurry, I would say. Um, it's the hardest part for me to reconstruct. Um, so I was laying flat. I I wasn't able to move. Um, they had a magnesium drip uh going, which is for the the help and the pre-eclampsion. So this basically causes you to be like super hot and a bit delirious. Um, I had an EKG for my heart, an oxygen monitor on my finger, several IVs going um because they had to do like the blood checks every couple hours and to administer meds through, um, a permanent blood pressure cuff that was like running every 15 or 30 minutes. They had these like big fancy leg massagers on my legs that prevent the thrombosis. And like at first I thought this is cool, this is like a leg massage, but like three days later, I was like, get those things off of me. Um they also were measuring my water retention. So um, everything that I drank, they had to like account how much, and then I had a catheter in, so they had to count how much out. And so in the first half day, they said three liters went missing in my body. So that was like how much bloating and retention that I had going on. Um because uh I'm not sure if it was the liver, the kidneys, one of those things, they couldn't give me like all of the pain meds that they would normally do. So they instead just went for the hardest, uh, which actually wasn't so bad. But so I was on these like morphine-like opioids. Um, and the thing that was my pet peeve through it all, pet peeve is a very uh small word for what it was. The epidural was in my back because they couldn't remove it because my platelets were too low. So this non-working epidural was in there for I think three or four days, and I could feel it all of the time, and it was just driving me crazy. And I had so many conversations with the nurses at first because they're like, oh, you have the epidural, and you shouldn't feel so much. I'm like, no, you don't understand it's not working, it does nothing. And every time they do that like test where they run this cold over you, they're like, no, no, no, see, and I'm like, yeah, I feel that, I feel that. They're oh, it really doesn't work. Yeah, it doesn't work. Um so yeah, that was like 24 hours of that.

Julia 34:21

Um can can we just pause for a minute? Sorry, Caitlin, Caitlin, are you uh actually bulletproof by now? Because this is insane, like really insane. Like you are, and I know like, and I've said this a few times, like, strength does not feel like strength in the moment, but excuse me, but like holy shit, you are tough as fucking nails, like and I know like you know, you kind of have to, right? But you but it's the inner strength within you, which is just like so mind-blowing that you've been through this, and you're still and we're not even we're not even close to finished, right? Like, we've got more to go.

Christine 35:08

Um we we got through what I thought was the hard part, like that was an incredible story, and then you're like, and this is where it gets worse. I'm like, wait, what?

Kaitlin 35:17

And the thing is, like, I don't want to make light of it. It's in my it's it's in my personality. I choke, I I do this, and even then in the moment I was joking, and my husband was so utterly world worried sick, like, because he was not with me, and there reached a point where he was like, he hadn't had updates for hours, and he's like, Is my wife dying? Like, can someone tell me what is going on? And he came in thinking I was gonna be awful, and he comes in and I'm like, Great to see you, and I'm joking around and everything. And I've done a lot of work, like you know, they they there was a psychologist who gave me a referral to have like birth trauma therapy after. So I've gotten very comfortable talking about the story, but I also don't want to downplay like how serious it felt in the moment. Like it was all-encompassing. And I the one good thing I would say is that I didn't feel any guilt at all for being away from my baby because I knew like what my body is going through right now. I have no strength, no energy for anything other than myself. The faster I can get myself better, then I can take care of her. And it was also like beautiful that she was having these moments with her father during that time. Like they were doing skin to skin, he was learning how to feed her, he was learning how to change her diaper. Um, so I just knew like this is my task, like take care of myself, think of my health, and get through this. Um and it it did, like after 24 hours of that, I was able to go um back and join my husband. And I should say also, like, throughout this, it was really my mom was here, and so she was able to come visit. She was also worried sick, and so like seeing family was a big help through it. And then, you know, my my values were improving.

Ward Recovery And Going Home

Kaitlin 37:16

So the the the stuff inside was getting better. Um, and then I started to reach the phase where I felt, okay, my values are getting better. I'm out of the ICU. Why don't I feel any better? I still had the mag drip, the magnesium drip, I still had the epiduralin, I still had all of that. And I felt like completely hopeless. And at one point, like I said to my husband, I was like, if my if I don't start to do better today, I don't know what I'm gonna do. Like, how can there be no progress? Um, and like the doctors and midwives at treatment are just I was so happy with them. And I think saying these words instantly triggered like a bunch of doctors to be come in and like talk to me and be like, you know, have a heart to heart. And one of them who was there at the moment, this was like maybe three nights after the C-section, um, she came in and she sat on the bed and she had been in the operating theater during my surgery, and she said, I've seen your values. Your body did exactly what it was supposed to do in the moment. And you don't see it now, but it is taking care of itself inside, and very soon you will start to feel that. And like she was spot on. It was actually that day that suddenly it was like the the platelets were up enough, they could remove the epidural, I could go off the magnesium, I could start taking some more regular pain drugs. Um, and then like it was just, you know, learning to walk, doing these, these steps. I mean, everything was difficult. You know, I didn't understand how the other moms were were getting better, you know, so fast. And I was like, I had a c-section, they had a c-section, how can this, how can it be so in parallel? But then this doctor, she really just brought it home, like your body really was shutting down. And like that then also caused spill-on effects. So, for example, it directed all of the energy to, you know, the vital organs, and so my stomach and digestion just completely stopped. And so then it took like several days. Like, I think my husband said I looked like I was nine months pregnant at that point, the nine months that I hadn't reached, because I was just like so swollen from the water retention and the stomach not working and everything. But like eventually it did work. And I think one of the highlights for me, this was like a running joke between us, was that I kept ordering food and I could never eat it. So it'd been like four or five days and I hadn't eaten anything. But every time, I mean, the food, the the staff that needed the catering orders for anyone delivering at Trimley, they come in at the most inopportune times. I mean, they're really well intentioned, but they'll like come in while you're in labor and be like, what would you like to eat in two days?

Julia 40:19

Like this is true of every single hospital. This is not a Trimley only thing. This is true of every single hospital. It's remarkable. And they're such such lovely people, but they really do choose the worst times.

Kaitlin 40:32

Every time I just said, like, I couldn't even think of eating all these decadent, amazing in other circumstances food. So I just ordered this like very bland boiled chicken with like a broth on it. And every single time without fail, I couldn't eat it. And so my husband was eating these. And by like day five of the chicken, he's like, for God's sake, can you order something other than that chicken? And so the last day in the hospital, I could finally eat the meals and it was really good. And I had something other than the chicken. But um, yeah, this was all I think part of the process. Um so, all in all, then like after the ICU I was in, I had to go back to the birth ward for another three nights where they and that was where all this like the slow recovery was happening. And then once the progress started, then they let me go to the Vochen bed and things got a little more normal. Um we had intended to do like the general ward where I would be sharing with other uh mothers, and I was very cool with this beforehand. And then in the moment it was like, oh my god, no, that I still don't know how I would have done it without my husband there, like not just for the mental support that I needed, but also physically. Like, I couldn't, I think it was weeks before I changed a diaper. Um, so so yeah, so we were very grateful. Trimly like quickly shifted us and gave us a room together and everything. Um, we saw lots of different doctors and we kind of wanted to take advantage. I wanted to take advantage of everyone who came in. So there was like a physio who came and showed not just how to like stand and walk again, but also my lungs because I hadn't been moving for several days. Um, they like showed gave me like this contraption to build up the lung strength again and and my breathing. The psychologist who I mentioned gave the referral because like it was way too soon to talk then, but like as time went on, I could talk about it. Um, and then one week after we were admitted, we were able to go home with a healthy newborn baby, totally sleep-deprived, like you know, everything of that. I was still like very wrecked, but walking um and very grateful to the Trimley team um for all of that.

Julia 43:02

Like that week is sounds it was harrowing, right? Yeah, but I am amazed that it was only a week. Yeah, do you yeah, you look back and you're like, okay, all these systems in my body were legit shutting down. Like, right? You were in the ICU, you had major abdominal surgery, and I'm sure that week was a year, right? You know, but like only a week? Yeah, and you could like walk.

Kaitlin 43:33

Yeah, and and in the end, I think in the Wochenbet, it was always a discussion, when am I gonna go home? And it was like, okay, maybe in you know, three or four days. And then the day before that they they discharged me, you know, the doctors came in, and every time, you know, we had every half day like this talking with the doctors, okay, how are things looking? And they said, We think you can go home tomorrow. And I felt this panic, like. Oh my god, really? My husband felt an even bigger panic having seen how I was doing. Um and we talked about it and we're like, can we do it? And he's like, You you can say no, you can stay. Like, and they were it it was presented in a way like, are you okay with this? And I thought about it and I was like, I think I am. And if they believe in me, like I they have not let me down so far. And it was right, like by that point, we I think I've heard from a lot of other moms the Volgenbeds, while great in some respects, it's also difficult because you have this constant in and out of doctors, and so we were just kind of looking forward to being ourselves again as a family. So it's like if they believe that I can take care of myself at home, then I'm gonna try it. Um I do have to say, like, I was ready to go home, but I was not ready for the postpartum period. Um

Postpartum Overwhelm And Feeding Grind

Kaitlin 45:02

it was so much more difficult than I ever imagined. And I do think a big part of it was having gone through all of this, like arriving at day one of home of postpartum and just being so completely wrecked, like sleep-wise and physically. Um, and not just me. Like my husband had not left the hospital the whole time. He was taking care of our daughter, and so, you know, while I might have wanted to be able to say, like, you know, you've been sleeping or something, he hadn't been. So he was also sleep deprived. And so we were really like going through this together. I felt totally overwhelmed. I had this feeling like life is never gonna be the same again, you know. And and I think this is something that other moms I've heard have had, like as well, you know, uh suddenly realizing how am I ever gonna leave the house? Like one person told me, um, okay, we have to all quit our jobs because you know, there's no way to work and be a parent, and like this takes two full-time parents at home. I have no idea how single single parents do it. Um, and so yeah, so we're tired, we're home, we're because she's premature, her weight was okay. It was like 2.5 kilos, I want to say, which is small, but like I think if she'd made it full term, she would have been a big baby. So that really helped her. Um, but still she was small, so we had to wake her to feed her every two hours initially, and then it became three for the first month. Um, and breastfeeding, I had no idea that it was gonna take so long at the start. So, like these are two-hour windows. I spend 45 minutes breastfeeding, but we have to do combo feeding at that point because um she's uh premature, so they need like everything in her, and also like she'd had bottles at the start while I was in the ICU. Um I should mention I was also pumping in the ICU. So that's it.

Julia 47:17

Exactly. I was gonna I I was gonna ask when you were talking about the ICU. Holy moly, so you were pumping while in the ICU, and then the milk was being, I guess was your your husband, could he come and get it, or was someone bringing the milk over? Or were you dumping because of the meds?

Kaitlin 47:33

They were dumping it because of the meds.

Julia 47:35

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kaitlin 47:36

Um and so I pumped like twice, I think, in the ICU, once in the day and then once at night. And that was, I think, somewhere between like midnight and 3 a.m. And it was like it was a grueling experience. And then at one point a nurse came in and she's like, This stops, like pump gone. You're resting now. And so very grateful for that. I don't know, there's something that come came over me. I am not someone who holds on to, I don't think I think breastfeeding brings a lot of benefits, but I have always said, if it's if it doesn't work, I will be okay with that. I I I but it was very hard in the moment while it was possible to actually say, I'm not going to do this. Um we will come to the breastfeeding part, I guess, soon. Um, but that that stayed like a theme. As long as there was something, as long as I could think, let me just get through this, and there is an option, then I I I wasn't letting myself stop. Um and I cannot explain that still. Uh it's just unconscious. Um but so yes, so we were doing combo feeding. Uh, and I do have to say, like I had heard a lot about how read a lot about how it's not you often possible to go between the bottle and the breast, or between formula and breast milk. Not the case for us. Like, so to to our midwife at home, um, who was absolutely amazing, we loved her so much, she kept telling me, it's fine, do it. I'm like, but I'm reading and everything. And she's it's it's fine, it's working for you. So, so keep going. And like for anyone else who's in those shoes, it can work. It doesn't mean it always does, but it it can. And that gave me a lot of freedom. Um, because, you know, because she took bottles, that meant once I was eventually feeling better, which was many, many months later, I could leave the home and her dad could give her a bottle. But at the time being, in postpartum, when we had to do both, and so we have these two-hour windows before we have to wake her again and 45 minutes of breastfeeding, and then you got to do the bottle. I had to pump because I was trying to increase the supply after the delayed start. Change the diaper, then you've got maybe like 15 minutes, a half hour before it all starts over the cycle. And we kept asking, we're like, is that really two hours from start of feeding until the next? Can it be till from the end? Nope. From the start of the feeding. Um, so we were really suffering. And then uh while I didn't have postpartum depression, I underestimated the baby blues. I now think baby blues is like the worst term. It makes it sound so cute and light. Um, but I really think it is not a joke. At least it wasn't for me. I was just, I'm normally someone who's like talking, making lots of conversation, engaging, and like the dinner conversations in our household were just dead, staring at the plate. I couldn't. I I everything was making me emotional. Um, also the lack of sleep. And so I think it was at least two or three months before I started to feel a little bit like myself again. Uh, and then it came faster and faster, and it it did eventually reach the point that it was normal. Um there were some things that like really helped in that period. The first is that my mom stayed for six weeks. So she she didn't stay with us, she stayed like at an Airbnb nearby, so she could pop over every few days, cook some things for us, you know, clean up. Um we also had a lot of family members and friends who were very understanding that we didn't want to see a lot of people at first. So they were just like dropping meals off in our mailbox. Um, and then when we did come around to like being very supportive, listening to this long birth story that I had to tell. Um, and so we felt this network around us that helped. Um, one of them gave us the advice to sleep in shifts. And at first we were like, no, no, no, we do things together. You hear me, I say we all the time. Like, we we we figure this out. It's too overwhelming in the middle of the night. Do we how do we respond to the cries? And eventually we did. Uh, we'd alternate who got to sleep in the spare room and who was on shift, and like finally we started to sleep again. And it was world-changing in terms of being able to get rest. And then I'd the other thing that super helped was the midwife that does all of the visits. Like uh, we really appreciated her. So she was the one that we had, and I'll give her recommendation in the resources, but like she was very compassionate with us. She really heard everything that I'd been through and was like very there for me and for my husband. She was very guided by like my goals. So she was, you know, at first it was like, I want to exclusively breastfeed. And so we tried for that. And then eventually she's like, Are you is this it, you know, or do you want to continue combo? You can. And so then we adapted. And so I appreciated that it wasn't like pushing, you know, her way. But the other thing was, so her name was Barbara. And so we had a saying in our house. It was like, what did Barbara say? Because like anytime we were at a loss and didn't know what to do, we're like, What did Barbara say about this? Okay, that's how we'll do it. She just had a lot of knowledge and tips, and it was nice to have someone to call on. So I'd like being from the US where that service is not available, I feel very privileged to have had that and very grateful.

Christine 53:44

Especially after such a tough, I mean it's it's always tough, but that kind of a start, you really need all the help you can get. And then if you had a midwife that didn't really click with you, or something that would just be like one more thing on top. So I'm so glad that your mom could stay, that you had the supportive midwife and felt like you could get answers and tips that you needed. And some good random tips from friends to help you get rest.

Kaitlin 54:12

I feel like where in listening to other people talk about their stories, both through your podcast, but also people that I know, something that I feel like causes a lot of emotional difficulty after is when there's this clash with the click care team, where it's that they let them down in some way, that they weren't the advocates they needed to be, that they missed something. And so that that's why like I keep saying, like, I'm grateful for Dreamly, I'm grateful for my gynecologist, I'm grateful for this midwife. Because I am like, if I had that layer on top, I don't know that I'd be able to sit here and talk about this so calmly. Like, I don't harbor resentment, and and that has helped a lot in the healing process. I don't know if we should do breastfeeding.

Julia 55:12

I know, no, absolutely. You can't have a birth podcast without breastfeeding. This is something Christina and I had, or feeding, whatever, from the outset. We gotta. Um I just need a minute. I was trying to like telepathically be like, Christina, you're next. I can't, I can't, I gotta think. I was still digesting too, so there's a lot of things. Oh my gosh, Caitlin.

Christine 55:40

But do tell us about uh about the breastfeeding.

Thrush Versus Vasospasm Breast Pain

Kaitlin 55:44

I mean, you you said that you did you tried exclusive and then you did you did both and basically I had a month that was pretty okay when it comes to I mean, you know, this normal start of breastfeeding increasing supply, as I said, but it was okay. Uh and then it started to get painful. And so the first thing that we realized is that I had thrush. So thrush is a fungal infection passed between the baby and the mom. So the baby gets it in the mouth and the mom gets it on the breast, um, which causes a lot of pain while you're breastfeeding. I suspect, I I have no way of knowing, but so antibiotics can contribute to causing thrush. And I had some antibiotics administered just before the C-section because they thought maybe the baby had an infection. Um, so I think that probably would have played a role in it. I can't be certain. Um, even worse though than like the pain was the way that you get rid of it. So one thing was fine, you do ointments, um, you air yourself out to dry after you're done feeding and like apply cool compresses. But the annoying part was every single thing that comes into contact with the baby's mouth has to be washed and sterilized afterwards. And so, like bottles, pacifiers, even like spit rags. And so every spit rag you use, you have to get a new one after, else it could like reinfect. And so we don't have a laundry, like we have a once-a-week slot for laundry. So, like my mom was out picking up like tons more spit rags that we could use, and just we were constantly sterilizing, which was not what we needed. And then I started to think like it's not getting better, it should get better. I've been taking the meds, like, it's why is it not getting better? And at that point, it had switched into something different, which is called vasospasms.

Julia 57:40

Yeah, I okay. Pause, pause. The exact same thing happened to me. Wait, really? A textbook, yeah, exactly the same thing happened to me. And I had had antibiotics, and I was like, oh, it's because it's because of the antibiotics, you know, blah, blah, blah. And I also had yeast infections in the past. It was like, it's that, you know? And it just would not get better. And I did all this work, all this cream in the baby's mouth, and I was like, I can't even see it in his mouth. It was my like my first son. I can't even see it. Like, you're supposed to be able to see this like yeasty, like gross, like not growth, like you know, film in their mouth. No, could never see it. And it was when what did it for me? I'm gonna edit this bit out. Was it was winter? It was like really, really, really cold. And when I went out and I wasn't baby wearing him, I would get that feeling just in the cold. And I mentioned it to my midwife. Isn't it weird? I get the same feeling when I go outside. Like when the when my body, like, if I'm not wearing like a really thick coat or whatever, when it hits cold, she's like, Oh, you have vasospasms.

Kaitlin 58:48

It is what it's so beautiful to hear someone else has. It's exactly the same. Because what drove me crazy is the way you treat the vasospasms is like the opposite of the way you treat the thrush. Because you have to cover up immediately after, you have to like treat, you have to use warm compresses as much as possible. And and like the pain, I totally identify. The thing that I would always use that like made people finally realize, like, this, okay, this this does actually hurt, is how in the shower, like I would, because like the shower, like the air was cold, even though the shower was hot, it felt like there were knives going through my nipples.

Julia 59:29

I totally know that feeling. Oh my god, yes. So oh my word. Okay.

Kaitlin 59:37

I do think like for anyone who goes through preeclampsia or like, God forbid, help, I think it's something to be aware of because two of the ways that you treat the vasospasms, other than the heat, like one is that you take magnesium with calcium. Magnesium is something that you're on, as I said, like a drip when you have like a severe preeclampsia. And the other thing, like the more severe treatment is nifetopin, which is a blood pressure med, which is what I was also on at the birth. And so it just so happens at the same periods that we were treating the thrush, my doctors had said that I could stop taking the blood pressure meds and I could stop taking the magnesium. So suddenly I had nothing. And so I think that, I mean, I also have like some history of rainodes in the family. And so I think that combination with going off those meds probably contributed to it. And so I went, I went and saw the Stilberatung at Trimli, and they like recommended magnesium and calcium in high doses. And I just, you know, every time I was breastfeeding throughout the whole winter, I was like holding this hot compress on me beforehand, and like I bought these uh hand warmers to stick down my shirt if I was out and about, and it was fine after that. Um, I did have like a really fast letdown that caused like some clamping. So I had to also do like block feeding for a while, but it was not so bad. And at Trimley, they have really, I think a lot of places they have these amazing lasers that can heal the cracks really quickly. Really recommend those. Um and so it was this period of about two months where it was quite painful. Um, and that was where I was thinking, like, I I still don't understand why I kept going. In the moment, I didn't understand why I kept going. I did because it was always like, oh, let me just try this treatment, let me just try that. And then eventually, after two months, it it got better. And my daughter's 13 months and I'm still breastfeeding today. So, like, there is sometimes a way out, but like I also really don't blame moms if they would say, like, you know, call in the towel uh going through these things either.

Long Term Risks And Self Advocacy

Kaitlin 1:01:51

Um, there was one other thing I really wanted to mention, um, which is the after-health effects, like that are kind of lifelong for someone who has preeclampsia, and that I've been really peeling back the layer on. Um immediately after leaving the hospital, I had to have so controls like first every week and then a couple weeks until my blood pressure was okay and eventually could go off the meds. Um, I had to have blood work at three months and six months to make sure that my liver and kidneys were okay. And this was something the doctors didn't automatically think of. So it was in the hospital report, but like I had to make sure to ask about it. Um I had to have an iron infusion, which I still don't know if it was related or not. And so, like after all of this, my blood vowers were were okay, my iron I thought was okay. And so, in theory, that whole chapter is over. But what I have seen is that it's never really over with this. So at first I realized that if there is a second pregnancy, and that's like not a decision we've taken yet, it's still too soon after. Um, but if we would decide to have another kid, uh I spoke, so I had a consultation at the university hospital about it, to be sure. This is this this is a theme like I really recommend everyone advocate for yourself, get as much info as possible. So I have about a one in four chance of getting pre-eclampsia again. Um, help syndrome, no idea, because there's way less studies on it. And I have dug, I have tried. Um and equally concerning the cholestasis, which, like as I said, was really overshadowed. Most women who have cholestasis in pregnancy go on to have it again. I think it's like up to 80% in future pregnancies. And what's not clear is if it's more or less severe in the second pregnancies. There's not really studies that I could find, at least, on it, and none of the doctors could say. And so that's something I have to know. Like a future baby that I would have would probably be premature because with this risk of cholestasis, if that would recur, I know that like going longer past the 37 weeks can be a challenge with the stillbirth rate. Um, and it worked, like, I'm so grateful that my daughter is okay. Um, and that that's just a heavy risk to weigh for anything in the future. I also know from my own health, um, so women who've had pre-eclampsia are at an increased risk of having heart failure and stroke. I thought this was like a later in life thing, but actually, from from the what I read, again, everyone do your own research, but from what I can tell, the risk seems to be quite high, especially in the first 10 years after the birth. So being someone who works in a humanitarian sector, traveling to a lot of countries with like less medical resources, it's something I'm very aware of. And so I have asked, like to have um, I had a lot of checks done, like of my heart to make sure everything's functioning, and it's something that I plan to do regularly. There are no recommendations with pre-eclampsia for like a set amount of years, like every three years or every five years or every one. And like this is a known gap in the literature. Um, so I spoke to the doctor about it, and it's just like really up to you to push your doctors and say, like, can you check? Can you make sure everything's all right with my heart? Um and so, yeah, I've been doing like just a lot of digging, a lot of speaking with medical professionals, trying to understand why, how to prevent. There is no actual why. I have my own theories and things, but it it's this incertitude. And the only answer is to just do lots of checks, be cautious, be aware, you know, if you read. Something on Google is not necessarily true, but it's not necessarily not either. So if it's ringing really true, talk to a doctor about it. And that's that's really been what has helped me.

Julia 1:06:16

I think that you're speaking about like true self-advocacy. We talk a lot about self-advocacy in terms of questioning interventions and questioning labels being put on you. But what you're talking about is a much more pulled back, lifelong, truly individualized what self-advocacy looks like. And it is so much work and it is amazing to you that you did that. There's so much misinformation online about pre-eclampsia. Like it's enormous. And so for you to have to dig around all that is just so, so, so much labor and thinking about how it affects your work is um yeah, really smart, right?

Kaitlin 1:07:02

I also asked them, I was like, if you couldn't find my veins in the hospital, is that gonna be a problem if I'm like somewhere that, you know, and they were like, Oh, we assure you, we can get if it's an emergency, we will go through bones and they will go through bones.

Julia 1:07:15

They'll there's an there's a neck, there's like a neck, there's a neck they can go through, they'll do the ankle. Um, if they can find an anesthesiologist, is the thing, right? Like as long as there's an anesthesiologist somewhere, they are quite crafty, amazing people. That's just absolutely remarkable. What an incredible story. And why are you still feeding? Oh my gosh.

Kaitlin 1:07:40

Well, now's the nice part, right? It's so nice. I know. Everyone told me at the start it's hard, and then it's nice. And so while it's working, yeah.

Julia 1:07:50

Now is the easy, yeah. Now's the easy part of feeding. It's and it's like to have those moments of clarity and being like, yeah, I get why people don't do this. Yeah, this is really this is like I I get it. Um, but now you get to enjoy that, and I'm so happy for you that you get to enjoy that because just those two pumps in the ICU, I am sure set your body down that path that it needed that that it needed to get things online for the lactation to work. It's just incredible. I think we need to ask our final question now. Um,

Brilliant Moment And Closing Thanks

Julia 1:08:27

and that is in this whole process, the whole process, your pregnancy, everything, what has been your most brilliant moment?

Kaitlin 1:08:39

Such a hard question to say, like one moment. Um, because the first thing that comes to mind is like every moment that my daughter laughs, you know. But like really trying to think of something about, you know, becoming a mother. And we so I had this naches break at Trimli. Um, afterwards, I really recommend anyone do that, like to speak with the doctors. And afterwards, the the the doctor who operated on me, she mentioned, you know, it was just so beautiful seeing you and your husband. We were all talking about that behind the scenes, like how you well you communicated and supported each other through it. And it really touched us. And like she said it in a way that like she was quite touched too. And I think that has been really beautiful seeing how our daughter can have this, you know, these parents that that love each other and talk and communicate and are there for her, seeing her relationship with her dad grow, seeing the community that formed around us and seeing her play with all her cousins all the time. That I think has been quite the beautiful part, not just like her, but everyone around her and us.

Christine 1:09:58

That is really beautiful, and that is um an incredible gift that you can give her.

Kaitlin 1:10:06

Yeah. It's I think being away from my family is of course quite difficult, and something I'm sure so many of your readers empathize with. Um, and so it has been nice to also have family here and friends that are like family that can not totally fill that void, but like still be, you know, those really special people on a daily basis. And then she still has her family at far that she can see on the special occasions.

Christine 1:10:37

Who also came, you know, your mom also came in a critical time and filled a critical gap. And so it's a good, a good uh puzzle pieces to come together for support. Thank you so much, Caitlin, for sharing this incredible story. I am going to spend the rest of today and tomorrow digesting all of it. I feel like I haven't wrapped my head around all of it, but this is um yeah, incredible.

Kaitlin 1:11:08

Thank you so much for letting me share this. Um giving me the moment to recount, regale the many stages of the saga, but like also just, you know, show to anyone who does go through something similar, like in those hopeless moments, it it does. It doesn't seem like it gets better, but it does.

Julia 1:11:34

Thank

How To Support And Connect

Julia 1:11:35

you so much for tuning in to another episode of Swiss Birth Stories. If you enjoyed today's episode, we'd love for you to subscribe to the podcast so you never miss an inspiring birth story or expert insight. Your support means the world to us and helps this community grow. So please also take a moment to rate and review wherever you get your podcasts. Your feedback helps us reach even more parents to be. Don't forget to share this episode with a friend or loved one who could benefit from it. And be sure to follow us on social media at SwissBirth Stories for even more tips, resources, and updates on upcoming podcast guests, courses, and events. We'd love to hear your thoughts, questions, and birth stories too. So feel free to DM us, fill out the form on our website, SwissBirthstories.com, or tag us in your posts. Until next time, keep sharing, keep learning, and keep connecting with each other.