Middle School Survival Guide: What Every Parent Needs to Know with Middle School Counselor Tammy Smith

In this episode of Clarksville Insider, host Josh Atkins sits down with longtime Montgomery County middle school counselor Tammy Smith to create a practical survival guide for navigating the middle school years. Drawing from more than two decades of experience, Tammy shares what parents of incoming sixth graders can expect, how boys and girls often experience middle school differently, ways to encourage independence while staying connected, and why friendships, organization, confidence, and communication matter so much during this stage of life. They also discuss phones, social media, and how families can set healthy boundaries while preparing students to thrive both inside and outside the classroom. Whether your child is about to start sixth grade or you're already in the middle school years, this conversation is full of practical advice, encouragement, and reassurance for the journey ahead.

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Well, welcome back to Clarksville Insider. I am your host, Josh Atkins, Like the Diet. And whether you've called Clarksville home for years or you're just settling in, this is the podcast that helps you get to know our community just a little bit better. You know, we like to talk to local leaders, business owners, and people making a difference across Montgomery County. And today's guest, is Tammy Smith. A middle school counselor with more than 20 years of experience serving students in Montgomery County schools. And Tammy and I actually worked together years ago when I was teaching middle school PE. So with another school year right around the corner, really right around the corner, we're putting together a survival guide for middle school, especially for parents Yes. of incoming sixth graders. We'll hit some of those things. Yeah. But we're going to talk about what families can expect. Boys and girls, maybe some differences you might notice and might really show up there and navigating friendships, phones and social media, all those things. And just a way that parents can support their kids through one of the biggest transitions of their school years. So this should be a great conversation. So Tammy, welcome to the podcast. Thank you. I am glad to be here. so as I mentioned before, you you and I, you know, we worked together ~ a few years ago. But for people meeting you for the first time, tell us a little bit about yourself, your connection to Clarksville, and anything that may help this conversation. All right. Well, I ~ came to Clarksville in nineteen ninety five. I was which does not seem like it was something like, you know, twenty, thirty years ago, but there it is. through Austin Peay, got my bachelors and my masters ~ at Austin P met my husband, settled down here and ~ haven't left. And so yeah, I've been a fifth grade teacher. Before I was a counselor, so kinda got to see the that side of education for a few years and then decided to go into school counseling and this is gonna be my twenty-third year in middle school. So how did you end up going from teaching to counseling? So my first year teaching, ~ Loved connecting with the kids. I loved teaching, but as you know, there's a lot more to teaching than just actually the teaching part. And at that point, I didn't have kids.~ I was barely married and realized that that wasn't exactly my passion, but I wanted to do something that was still connecting with kids, hearing their stories, working with their families. And so school counseling is what jumped out at me and went and got my master's, and here we are. Wow. And so out of every age group that you could have worked with, what drew you to middle school after and after all these years, what has kept you there? So initially, I'm just gonna be honest here, my ~ initially I I didn't want to do elementary because they still are teaching and doing lesson plans and things like that. And I just didn't want to do that part of it. I didn't want to do high school because it scared me. I mean, ~ high school counselors have a lot of responsibility in making sure er all the kids graduate. And that just ~ I saw myself losing a lot of sleep on that one. ~ so initially that's kind of why I thought middle school, but being here now, I mean twenty 23 years later. I love middle school. I would not change it at all. I think just seeing the difference between sixth grade and eighth grade, you have a wide range of maturity levels.~ Every day is different. There's a lot of flexibility within your day, but it's just there's never a dull moment. And it's the same job, but every day looks a lot different. Yeah. I like never adult moment. That's a good way to put it. Never. Never. so it's funny, like when you think of middle school or when a parent that maybe hears this thinks of middle school, it's it's almost like you can't help but throw back to your own experiences and just like, Thanks. Okay, my kid's going into middle school. Well, this is what it was like for me. Well, Mm-hmm. you know, kind of bringing those things. Where do you Why do you think middle school has earned the reputation of being one of the the toughest seasons of growing up? Yeah, it's tough. It's it is not easy. I mean, you're stuck literally in between elementary and high school. And so there's expectations at elementary school, there's expectations at high school. And then that middle school is just literally in the middle. And so you have that, I still want to be a kid, but I also want to be independent. And I want to be grown up, but I'm I'm not yet. And so It's just this constant pull and push of Where am I in life? And it changes not only day to day, but sometimes minute to minute.~ you know, I see tough, tough kids on the outside and come in my office and then, you know, they're just like they're ten. And it's it's just and they don't know what they're thinking and doing because just as confusing to them as it is to the parents and anybody else. And and really As we bring in our experiences and those kind of things, it really does create this. It's almost like are you going through the same things I am? Because it was tough for me, so it's probably tough for you. Right. Right. And maybe things are going pretty well for a little bit. And so it's, I think it's hard even for parents, especially for me, because I'm like, okay, this is what the cafeteria was like. I walked into the left down the stairs and there it was. Like there's there's just such a a vivid memory. And so they're creating these memories too. So thinking about Yeah. thinking about that when a fifth grader walks in, because you know, probably for a few weeks, they're still fifth graders. You absolutely. know, when they walk into middle school that first week,~ what is usually or what do you think is going through their minds? when they're just in there and it's normal. It's not an open house. It's not a fifth Right. grade orientation night. It's it's third period. The bell rang. W what are Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. what are they thinking?~ most of them are scared to death and ~ most of them are acting like they're not scared to death. ~ and so it's a lot of people faking being okay.~ but they you know, a lot of them are just middle school is so social oriented. And so they are looking for familiar faces.~ and you know, so many of the kids have they've been in their elementary school since kindergarten, so they know that group. And when they come to middle school, they're merging with four or five other ~ schools. And so it's all of a sudden these this sea of unknown faces. And so they're looking for what's familiar, what's the one thing that that I can latch on to. That's why we hear so many times, like if if an elementary teacher has come up to middle school, we get requests all the time of can my kid have that teacher? And I think it's simply because it's a familiar face. They just want to know that something isn't changing.~ you know, they're also worried about getting lost, finding their classes. ~ I can Sure. Fully safe with a hundred percent honesty that in twenty-two years we haven't lost anybody yet. We make sure everybody gets to all their classes, gets to where they're going. ~ but they're very worried about making sure that they know how to get around, making sure that they see familiar faces, have friends. A lot of times what we hear too is when they come in, they're really worried about fights. They're really worried about fights in middle school. And it's really kind of comical how overly concerned about stuff like that they are.~ because you know, it's just like the news, you only hear the negative. ~ Yeah. but there's so much positive in middle school and thankfully fights is not nearly as prevalent as they have it in their mind. I'm yeah, I'm sure they they just think they're walking into like a UFC event. They're like, Okay, where's it gonna be? Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And like just get to class, okay, Yeah. Yeah. you're fine. Yeah, exactly. And it's funny you mentioned that like one familiar face. Does it almost feel or at least at least for me, I can think it almost seems like an anchor. It's Yeah. and like we we felt like this when we you know, when you're going to like a church almost and you join a small group, Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. it's a big church, but you join a small group and it's like, Okay, there's fifteen hundred people here right now, but I see these people. I'm okay. Right. Right. This is my spot. Yeah. And This is where I belong. Yeah. And so just being able to hear that that that does feel almost like a like an anchor, like, Okay, I'm gonna be all right. Yes, yes, yes, I've I've seen my friend at lunch or something like that. yes. Now What are parents usually worried about? I I assume there's a little bit of a~ difference. And having lived it last year going through the Yeah. new sixth grader, you know, I had my own not really concerns, but just having worked in a middle school, I kind of understood what it was like. But sometimes there's nothing to go on. So what what are they usually worried about? And what would be what would be like a better, like actually be thinking more about this? This is what you can be thinking and helping your get through just initially. Right. I mean there's lots of stuff that comes up, but just even those first couple of weeks. Yeah, yeah. And I'm sure, you know, even having worked in a middle school, when you have your own kid going through middle school, as a parent, it's very different. All of a sudden you don't none of what you experienced matters.~ so you know, parents are usually worried sometimes about the same thing. Are they gonna get to the class on time? Are they gonna find their way? Are they gonna have friends? You know, they want their kids to be comfortable.~ they you know, they They really need to be focusing on just letting your child grow, being comfortable with the uncomfortable, which is so incredibly hard. ~ and I you know, I have two kids of my own. They my youngest just graduated high school. So I've been through through the middle school experience with both of them, and you know, and I was here in the building with them. So ~ even that is hard because letting go is is difficult.~ but just helping them learn to be okay with being uncomfortable, that it's okay to not go in and immediately see all of your friends, that that's how you grow. ~ you know, that's that's the part that is going to help them the most in that transition. How do you how do you help them learn that?~ That's a great question. ~ trial and error and letting the parents also be comfortable with the uncomfortable.~ just knowing ahead of time that you're not going to be able to fix everything and you shouldn't be able to fix everything. I think that's a a big key is that as parents, you know, we don't want to see our kids sad or hurt or, you know, we want to rescue them, but knowing, giving them the the ability to fight their own battles, to struggle a little bit, that's what middle school is about, is is really coming into their own and growing up, knowing that their parents are still right there, walking next to them, but not walking the path with them and for them. The the next to them, not for them, that seems like a in the path of schools, it seems like that's when middle school happens because in Yes. in elementary it's I'm in front. I'm I'm Absolutely. pushing away. I'm like, okay, no, no, here, let me shield. And then like just even coming to the side almost seems like a are you sure about this? kind of thing. And Uh-huh. Yeah. but ~ it does. It does kind of track and it sounds like you've worked through this a little bit too with the eventual like, Okay, now I'm behind you. Now I'm launching you. Right. Right. Right. And it's hard because Like it's it's that natural event. there's no rule book. You know, and you have to know your own kid and stuff. But I I think just as parents, the one thing that we can do the best for our kids is instilling in them the confidence that we have in them. Even if we're not quite sure that they're they're gonna even if we don't have a hundred percent confidence and we're kind of faking it a little bit, just relaying to them that they have the ability to do this, that they can do this. Just building up their confidence to be who they are and to ~ be able to just sit in the uncomfortable for a little bit. Nobody likes it. It's not fun. Yeah, it's definitely it's definitely easier said than done, Absolutely. but very but very crucial. And I'm sure Yeah. And I say that as a parent who didn't do the best job with that. So I mean, you know, I'm I'm a I like control and you know, it was hard. Yeah, this is this is no expert panel here. This is like No, no, this is do what I say, not what I do, you know. Yeah. It's like we're all in this together. This is high school musical right here. We're ~ That's right. That's right. and just thinking through even like sixth graders, if we can hang here just for a little bit, Mm. Yeah.~ as they're transitioning in. what what kind of tips just even like practical, like just organization tips? Yeah. Like because I remember like being PE, you know they would come into the locker room and set their stuff down and you're like, hey, there's there's a a a notebook with with folders. And then there's, hey, there's a guy using two hands who barely made it. Like Mm-hmm. Yeah. just to keep all their stuff together. And like, do you have just even some practical, like, all right, here's what you need. You're gonna be changing classes, you're gonna be moving from one part of the building to the other and then back again. Any just like All right, here's here's how to help. Here's what you can do kind of stuff. You know, organization is is such a hard thing and that is probably the number one thing that kids struggle with all throughout middle school. The hard part with organization is that it's a habit. There's a skill to it, but it's really a habit. It's just like getting up in the morning and, you know, you have your routine. of whether it's you know get a shower, eat breakfast, whatever it is, you have your routine that you go through everything. And so it's just habits that you form. The hard part is as parents, we want to help our kids organize themselves in the way that we organize things. And most of the time that's not how our kids organize things. Especially with the digital age of stuff.~ you know, I I am still a paper pencil person. I have a to-do list, I have a hard calendar, like I but you know, my kids have everything on their phone, have everything on their computer, and you have to let them figure out the best way that works for them. And again, that's that trial and error part too. And that walking beside them. Give them input. Give them some independence. How do you want to organize your stuff this year? In elementary school, you know, they told you exactly what you had to have, even down to the color, you know, of certain folders. And Yep. in middle school, it's more of find a way to make sure you get everything done and everything gets turned in. And however that works is what works for you. And keep doing it. One of the things that I would say is once a week clean out the backpack. Clean out the backpack. It Yikes. is becomes inevitably it becomes a trash can. And they are going fast. Teachers teach bell to bell, and so there's not a lot of time to pack up and so they will just throw it in there and move on. And then they never pick it back out and put it where it belongs. So I would say I mean great, if every night you can do that, that's even better. But once a week, just just sort it all out. ~ you'll find a lot of missing assignments that way. A lot. may find missing clothes. Like ~ like yeah. You might. Or other people's clothes. That's the fun part about middle school too. Other people's clothes, other people's shoes. You know, it's just who knows. Yeah. Yeah. It is now. Yeah, that's right. That's right. yeah, it I can I can attest to the Pack just you you just don't pay attention to it and then all of a sudden it takes up half of the area that it used to. And it's like, what is going on here? And then it's well, especially in when it gets warm. I mean, there's three, four hooded sweatshirts in there and like just~ yeah. Yeah. all the things. Meanwhile, somewhere there's supposed to be an assignment due tomorrow in there somewhere. Yeah, it's supposed to be in there. Or at least the outline. Yeah. Yeah. And I would say honestly, Even worse. with organization, less is more.~ you know, sometimes people want to have, you know, a binder for every subject, a folder for every subject. And that's great if that works, but sometimes just having one folder of to do and one folder of turn in, you know, can be what you need.~ sometimes having too much can be hard to keep up with. Yeah, if if if you've got like a thirty point system, it's just like, all right, science goes here. Folders Right. yeah, I I I do think that that definitely helps for clarity's sake. in the middle of all the class changes and I Mm-hmm. can't find my assignment or my pencil or my friend's not in my lunch, like there's a lot that happens between drop off and pickup or bus yeah. to bus. Yeah. What are some of the struggles that parents might not see because it happens during the school day and that could and is more I don't want this to be like a dun dun dun kind of thing, but just more of a things to be aware of. Hey, this is happening, Yes. these are these are here and you may not hear about it kind of thing because your kid may not tell you ever. And just more of a hey these are things that may be popping up during the school day that you may not even You know, I would say it all probably involves around the social aspect of i I tell kids this all the time and parents too, and you know, I tell them, like, don't don't tell the teachers this. But middle school is so much more to me about learning how to do life than it is about learning science and social studies and math and English.~ those are all important things and they'll get those things. But this is where they the social world takes over. And so that is what's impacting them the most during the day is what did little Johnny say, what did little Susie say? Who did this to who? Who said this about who?~ how many times do their names get brought up in other people's~ that's what's probably weighing the heaviest on their minds is all about who's in the know, who's saying who, who's dating who, who's broken up with who, you know, who's best friends, but now they're not, and all of the different social aspects that change minute by minute.~ in in the middle school world, those are the things that they probably need the most help with navigating, but they don't talk about with their parents. they're Yeah. talking about it with their friends, things like that. And that's okay. I mean, you know, most of the time it's it's okay for parents not to be in the~ even though they want to be. But just Keeping an ear out, listening for maybe if they have a friend in the car, listening to those conversations. That'll give you a lot of information as to what's happening during the day that you don't necessarily hear about. I promise it's not all about the instruction. Yeah. And Probably at this point, well at this point you're seeing you know, the kids that are, you know, going through all those like emotional and social, you know, new friends, old friends, and all those things. But it's also Mm-hmm. like, well, this is how the boys are doing it, and this is how the girls are doing it. And it's just like they're really starting to spread and develop these~ individualized personalities within that. Do you see, you know, without like Stereotyping or anything, but just more like what kind of differences do you see between boys and girls in the middle school years Yeah, yeah. ~ boys and girls in middle school are very, very different. ~ it's funny because when I first started being a school counselor, I thought, you know, I I I I like hanging out with the girls and and I can handle this. I would much rather counsel boys any day of the week. Man, they're so much easier. Boys just they handle conflict, they deal with it, and they move on. Girls want to pull in everybody. around them and they want to ~ rehash over and over and over again and it's it it's the both are fun ~ in different ways ~ but boys are definitely easier in middle school than than girls are. ~ girls, man, I have two boys, so parents of girls, my hat's off to you. This is where, you know, girls really try to push those limits in middle school. and part of that is just maturity levels. I mean, girls do mature typically faster than boys do. And so boys, a lot of times in middle school are still you're still seeing some of those elementary behaviors. You're still seeing them making, you know, silly obnoxious noises or ~ you know, things like that. They're still being goofy and and all of that. And girls are more trying to to show up each other ~ and be in that cool group and they're you know the girls start start kind of having those clicks a lot faster than the boys do. boys can have their temper. Pretty quick in middle school.~ you know, that's that's one thing that girls tend they can keep that a little bit better under control than than boys with their temper and their emotions. but yeah, they're definitely this is definitely when you start to see that separation. What kind of emotional changes tend to catch the parents off guard during middle school? you know, they expect them to still act like they were in elementary school and they want to hang around with them and they want to do things with them and talk to them and in middle school you're gonna start seeing them pull back. they're gonna start hanging out in their room a little bit more often. They're going to ~ you know, start hanging out with their friends ~ outside of the house a little bit more often. All those are normal things. ~ tears. Your kid may become all of a sudden the most emotional kid you've ever seen.~ and some of that is just because, again, during the school day, they're all faking it. They're all faking like they're okay, you know, and they're and they're hanging in there. And then when they get home, they can't do it anymore. And it all just comes out. ~ and so they have a hard time just navigating that. I mean, puberty hits in middle school for all of them. And so at some point you see those emotions go up and down. You see them wanting that independence and parents still want to see them as that elementary age. But giving them a little bit of space is is a is a big thing. It's a way to show that you trust them. But also again, walking alongside them, letting them know that you're still their safe place to fall. Yeah. I think when you said they're faking it,~ Yeah. It normally we would think that like you would see tears and think, geez, what's what's what's my problem, what's their problem, what's going on? But when you when you contrast it with what you said and the faking it aspect, it almost seems like tears are a sign of safety. Like I can be safe in this Absolutely. Yeah. place. Yeah. Absolutely. And it doesn't mean that anything's wrong. It's just that release of stress and tension. I mean, you think about the first day you had your new job. You know, I mean, there's a lot of anxiety with that, but you don't necessarily go into that job showing that that anxiety. You kind of act like you know what you're doing, you act like you're happy to be there, you act like you're you're good with everything. And then by the time you go home, you're exhausted. ~ and so there's a lot of mental energy~ that gets put into play, especially especially with sixth grade and those first couple of weeks. Then things start to level out a little bit better. they do know a little bit more what to expect. They find their friend group, things like that. But those first couple of weeks are are pretty exhausting. Yeah. And like not necessarily the health class topics. That's Yeah. like what conversations should parents be having with their with their boys, their girls, their kids, their students, Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. their young adult, or just to keep the lines of communication open and not necessarily again, not like the talks or anything, more just more like, hey, just kind of be Putting this out there, this could this could really help in the future. This could let your students know, your kids know that you're you really are on their side and you're rooting for them. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, definitely puberty talks and all of that is is definitely a a plus. ~ I really advocate for daily showers and and that's that's a really big thing.~ you saw that in PE for sure. Yeah. And then the~ teachers s saw that after PE. After PE, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So if your kid has like PE first or second period, man, pack the deodorant. ~ but honestly, just having conversations about this is when as a kid, this is when you start to become who you're gonna become. This is your fresh start. This is who what kind of reputation do you want to have in life? what kind of person do you want to be known for? Because it's gonna start. Like if you know if they have a rough sixth grade year, that's that's hard to come back from sometimes. It can happen. ~ but it's it's a challenge. It presents additional obstacles.~ for for girls, you know, and boys both, like how to treat the opposite sex, how to treat each other. ~ you know, for boys, how to how to talking to them about how to be respectful. to the young ladies that they're interested in or hanging around.~ for for girls, talking about body image, talking about being confident in who they are,~ and you know, social media is what really blows that out of proportion, but really talking about being confident in who they are and knowing that, you know, they are all unique and they all have special talents and special abilities and The hard part with middle school is that they all bloom at different times and they get really self-conscious about that. So just letting them know that you know their time is coming and you know they're all gonna level out. By the time they get to high school, it kind of all levels out again.~ but just keeping them moving forward and being okay with them being themselves. Yeah. And being okay with where you are right now. Yeah, yeah. And not just like, Man, I can't you s you said we'll all level out. Well that's three years from now. Like I want it to be right now. Yeah. Absolutely. It's like just be okay where you are right now. Yeah, and I think, you know, a lot of that it just comes with the things that you do with them on the side. You know, it in the evenings, still having, you know, conversations around the dinner table or playing games, things like that, doing things that allows them to connect with you.~ that's also how you're gonna get to talk a little bit, you know, is is doing those low ~ risk type of activities. You know, taking them shopping, seeing what they're interested in, things like that. Asking a couple questions while you're waiting in line, like those kind of where it's not, That's right. That's right. well, how was your day? Fine. Well, what's that supposed to mean? Come on, Yeah. Yeah. I need more than that. It's like fine, Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'll give you nothing. How you like that? Yeah. I have Exactly. Now I'm not gonna talk to you at all. So I have found that too. ~ just it's like playing catch. Like the Mm-hmm. the just there's something about the the low the low stress motion of just back and forth that does allow just a little bit of lowering of defenses. And so when you can mix in those activities or just a quick trip to to something, I'm sure that that makes a lot of Yeah. I mean, even just in the car, you know, you kind of have them as a captive audience at that point, but you're not looking at them directly. I I find that having conversations with kids at that age that are not sit down and eye contact, they don't like the eye contact.~ Yeah. it's important, but if you're really trying to get them to open up to you.~ their defense is gonna be a little less if they're not being stared at. So just kind of having low low level conversations when you're just kind of doing normal day-to-day activities. Yeah. Almost like, you know, you wear the path down for communication during the what you would call easy times so that it's Right. there and they know where to go when it's not as easy. Right. Yeah. And I would imagine the phone, the social media, I mean, and you mentioned huh. it just a little bit ago, just that that has changed I'm sure what you do. Like how much of what you do now has changed or how much of even your your day is dealt with, you know, things that were done or said or posted or shown or just how much has has it Has the phone and social media changed your job and what you do? Yeah, ~ I have a love-hate relationship with the phones. They're they're necessary evils sometimes. but it it significantly has changed in the last twenty years for sure, what what my job looks like. So much of The drama and the even discipline issues and things like that start with the phone, with social media, with texts back and forth,~ things like that. Kids are very, very comfortable behind that screen.~ you know, they forget that whatever they say behind that screen at night, they're going to have to face in person the next day.~ and it it becomes it becomes a big problem sometimes. Some kids are are a lot better about it than others, but it is definitely something that the parents have to be aware of. Do you get a lot of parents asking, Well, when should when should we get a phone? Well I mean I imagine there's a lot of that come to middle school already having one. You know, I I was shocked when I ~ started doing sixth grade orientations a long time ago. And I would talk to the kids, and that would be the one thing we would talk about school rules and how if you have a phone, it's supposed to be turned off, put away. And I would ask them, how many of you have a phone? And I was this was before my kids were in middle school. So, you know, they were in el not born or in you know, elementary school, so they didn't have a phone. And the amount of kids that raised their hand at the end of the fifth grade year that saying that they had a phone, I mean, it was probably in the high nineties. And I was just I was floored as a as a parent that wasn't there yet. I was just I was floored. me personally, partly because of my job and all that I see, from the phones. My boys didn't get a phone until they turned 14 ~ when they in high school, the their 14th birthday. and even that was probably early. you know a lot of people are gonna disagree with me. That's okay. ~ but Fine. how I felt with about it was that wherever my kids are, they're with an adult and I have that adult's phone number. Whether it's a coach or another parent or something like that, I have the ability to get in touch with my kid.~ I know that that's not everybody's situation. And so, you know, as far as when when do you get your kid a phone, that really depends on on your family and what your kid has going on, how how you communicate with each other. What I would say, just because your kid has a phone doesn't mean they need to have social media. That Okay, so yeah. Yeah. Just That's where it gets sticky. Can you draw the distinction or maybe the the line of because this is what happens when you get into that? Like where's where's the where does it switch from you've got a phone and just kind of watch what you text to ~ geez, now we're Mm-hmm. with with social and all these other things. Social media is so much harder to navigate. It's so much harder to patrol.~ you know, you can read your kids' texts and things like that. And by the way, I strongly advocate for that. Strongly advocate for that. Check your kids' phones. they're new to this, they need guidance, and if they know that you're gonna check, don't do it behind their back. If they know that you're gonna check it, then they're less likely to do something that you shouldn't see.~ you know, we checked our kids' phones, and I don't I I didn't do it on the daily. That's unrealistic. I have a busy life. But periodically, just kind of Scroll through. See that's another way to see what they're doing, what they're talking about with their friends and stuff like that. That opens up some conversations for sure. It's not always ones you want to have, but it they're good to have. It's good to know kind of what what's going on in their world. ~ you know, but social media it just opens up a whole new gamut of things. First of all, it it talks, you know, you're talking about making sure that they are only talking to people that they actually know, talking about s you know, ~ online safety and making sure that they're not just giving out information that they shouldn't be giving out, that they're not just trusting everybody. And you wouldn't think that that happens a lot, but it happens a lot. I've had I could tell ~ multiple stories over the years of girls especially who, you know, talking to to guys that, you know, they say are twelve also and you know, we know they're not. ~ and they get hooked right into it. But it also opens social media also opens the door to ads. And the people who do social media who are in charge of that, they know who they're targeting. They know what the kids want to see. And so they are gearing everything towards that. And it it becomes literally an addiction. They get that dopamine hit, that feel-good chemical.~ and so it becomes an addiction that I just wanna keep doing it. I just wanna get one more hit. I want to scroll and see one more video. And some of some of those things aren't bad, but setting limits. On the phone, screen time limits. I mean, there's all sorts of parental controls you can place on phones. And a lot of parents are like, you know, that feel like that's invading their privacy.~ you own that phone. You paid for it. This that's the time to to help them learn how to navigate those things. If you're gonna introduce social media, you can probably tell I'm kind of kind of passionate about this topic, but if you're gonna introduce social media, do it slowly. don't give them every app available.~ you know, initially my kids got a phone. Period. No social media. And then maybe like the next year I think I let them get Instagram. Neither one of my kids got Snapchat until they were~ seventeen, I think. ~ neither one of them did. The the amount of kids who in middle school who have Snapchat is it's honestly a little disturbing.~ because if you don't know anything about Snapchat, the messages disappear after 24 hours.~ or once they're seen, or I I don't even have Snapchat, so I don't even know 100% what it's but it's so addictive and you can't monitor it as closely as you can some of those other platforms. So just I'm not against social media, but I am against giving them full access to it immediately.~ it's Something you gotta navigate. Watching their screen time, like it's it can be a a phones can be good, but limits have to be held within that that range. Yeah. Well You know, like there's there's And don't text your kid during the school day. Don't do that. They get in trouble. Yeah. 'Cause then they'll have to explain it and yeah. Well like I was But like just texting my mom back. What what? You know. Yeah, it's like, come on, help your help your kid a little bit. We have school phones, call us. Yeah. Well, like We'll get a message to you know. like I think in social media too, like at school you have quote unquote like social points you can earn, like by what clothes Yeah. you wear or who you hang with or what sports you play or activities you're in. And but on like Instagram Like there are actual points that you can score based on what what you post. Music. Yep. And then the issue can become I posted this picture and I got 13 likes. She posted a picture of herself and got 41 likes. And now we've got this like direct. It's like, well, I'll I'll I'll do something. I'll try to see if I can get. And then it becomes this whole thing where you're just and that's a lot of what the phone checking is. is did I get any more ~ somebody liked I got another heart. I got another and you I think you said it. Yeah. That becomes their confidence. That's the hit. That's the okay, I can go another five minutes. Well Yeah. how about now? And and really And it becomes a comparison game. Yeah. And so if you didn't get as many likes, then that must say something about you and people don't like you as much and da da da and that's not it. Then you bring that to the building the next day. And then it's all Absolutely. Absolutely. you know in third period and lunch and walking to Yeah. basketball practice or whatever else and and just even Yeah. Yeah. And they they really don't understand that once it's out there, you can't take it back. You cannot Yeah. Well even too, you said something you said something about like just safety. It's like, okay, well, did you put a picture of yourself wearing a school sweatshirt? Like did you put a yeah, I guess it does say Rich View Middle School on it. Like, okay, well Right. now ever the whole world knows that that's the school you go to. Right, right. And so it's just little things like that where it might not be training. It might just be no. Well and and Josh, being ~ just completely transparent and this is not meant to like scare parents at all, it's just being real. I I have seen such an uptick in police involvement with kids' phones.~ they will come to the school and they will talk to the kids and and they will confiscate phones because of inappropriate pictures that were sent or received. So having those conversations, if you're gonna give your kid a phone, you've got to be willing to have those conversations of what's appropriate, what's not, and what happens if. What happens if you get a picture that you know you shouldn't get? You'd go and bring it to me. You know,~ just have you have to be willing to have those conversations if you're gonna put that in their hands. And the time to have that conversation is not when they get that. That's when your conversations beforehand in the car at dinner. In Yeah. Yeah. line at you know at the store. Like you're And it's okay to say no. My kids weren't the most popular because they didn't have a phone. I mean, I get that. But it it is okay, you you can't be their friend. You you are in charge of looking out for them and you know when your kid is ready for something and when they're not.~ and just because every other kid in their class has a phone or you know, a certain sweatshirt or a certain shoe doesn't mean that that's right for your family. Yeah. ~ It's okay for them to be mad at you. They're going to that's middle school. They're gonna be mad at you. Like, even if you say yes to everything, they're gonna be mad at you. Yep, just like the all the sitcom, you Right. know, yeah, I'm not your little girl anymore, storm up the stairs, slam the door,~ yeah. Danny Tanger chasing him up, you know, DJ, come out you know, it's it's all Yeah. Right. it's all part of the process. ~ It is. It is. and I I say that with a twinge of uncertainty and just like, crap, like that's that's coming for me. Like I'm getting ready to live that and ~ Yeah. Yes, yes. Well I I say get a dog. If you're you know, if you're if you're raising teenagers and you want somebody to be to see you all the time, just just get a dog.'Cause Yes. And that dogs help too just to even offset tension too. It's like, Hey, look at Yeah, yeah, absolutely. look at Ma, look at her. We good? Yeah. Yeah. Get a dog. Like ~ Not just social media, but just the live the world that they're living in right Twelve year olds, thirteen, fourteen. Do you feel like they're carrying more just even like of an emotional burden than they did when you first started? what kind of pressures and not just with phones? I mean, I think we we hit that pretty hard, but just even like just regular pressures, what are they dealing with that parents might not be aware of that I didn't have to deal with when I was in middle school back in like you said, 95, 96 like Yeah. further and away, how is it how is it different and just more of a what are they carrying? Not just what's the bad stuff, but just what are they, what world are they walking into or are they all the way Yeah, there you know, I mean some so much of it is ~ is exciting for them.~ but with excitement and with opportunities comes stress. And so they are have they do have a lot on their minds of what direction am I gonna go in life? ~ and and I feel like sometimes we push that almost too hard too early. ~ but because of that, I mean the the positive of that is that they do get exposed to a lot more opportunities. And so because of that though, there's a lot of stress of what do I need to decide when? And that's when a parents can come along and guide them and and guide those discussions. so they're exposed to a lot more both opportunities as well as I mean things like vaping and stuff like that, you know, is that stuff we didn't see that stuff growing up. you know drugs were more like this one little group over here. and it's not rampant.~ it it most definitely is not rampant. So I don't want to scare parents, but but it's there and the kids hear about it, they see it. ~ and so again, just education, just telling them, you know, again, a a lot of it comes down with helping them be confident in who they are.~ you know, of course, family issues, there's lots of grandparents raising kids.~ there's lots of just parent and family dynamics that kids walk around with. And you know, part of that is also helping them learn to be kind to others. You know, th the the world has enough negativity. They they have the option of being kind to everybody that they meet. and so because they never know what the other person is carrying. They don't know their story. ~ because we all have one. Yeah, and and being being willing to give people the benefit of the doubt, I think that's that's a that's a skill that we can never grow out of. And just well, I mean, we have the opportunity to not grow out of because as adults, like just going through and just like, okay, maybe they didn't mean it the worst way when they did that or said that. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Maybe there's something else and just helping students, you know, helping a twelve year old go, Hey, maybe she said that, but maybe she didn't mean it in the way that you're it. Maybe she did, but let's just keep keep looking Yeah. Even even to their teachers, even to adults around them, you know. ~ as kids get older, teachers be have the opportunity to become a little bit more real with their kids, with their students. And so sometimes they will see their teachers having a hard day. And so even just helping them see everybody as human. and that everybody has a story and everybody has a bad day.~ and being kind can go can go a lot a really long way. You don't have to like everybody, but you should be respectful of everybody. That's something I say so many times. You know, you don't have to like, you don't have to agree, but you should be respectful. Yeah. That's of my daily affirmations when I wake up. I don't have to like everybody, but I got worse. ~ That's right. Right. You're not gonna be wrong of being kind. Yeah. At some point kids are gonna stop talking or slow Yeah. down or stop. How can Right, right. parents I know we hit it just a little bit,~ but just how can parents reopen those conversations or attempt to or still be okay in those moments when when that Mm. Mm-hmm. happens? You know, one of the things I I would encourage parents to do is to to have their own friend group with kind of s like-minded parents as well as similar aged parents with, you know, kids the same age, just so that you because you will feel like you're the only one saying no to something or whatever. And so just having other people that you can go to and be like, is your kid doing this? Because just knowing that it's normal helps you breathe a little bit of a sigh of relief. I remember doing that all the time. I would call or or having parents,~ friends that are parents that maybe your their kids are just a few years older are really great. You know, I would go and and call them be like, hey, it i is it okay if I say no to this? You know, and and or how do I how do I ask them about this? And so just being able to have people to go to is really helpful. Helps you feel a little bit less crazy and a little bit more normal, which is is a good thing. But you know, just again, that eye contact is good, but if you're really trying to get them to open up, having those conversations when you're not directly looking at each other and just asking open-ended questions. That's how to get them to talk. Forget the yes or no questions. Did you have a good day? Yes, no.~ you know, more of tell me what you learned in social studies today. Tell me how Sally is doing. You know, just getting them to to ask them something that they have to kind of expound on a little bit. Yeah. And there probably is an element of parents being okay with that. With the Mm-hmm. it's not gonna be forever. And you Yeah. mentioned it like the having having somebody that's just a few steps ahead Yeah. that can say, Hey, like even even you to me, like I could talk to you because you've got kids that are graduating and I've got a ten year old or a is he ten? No, he's nine. It's it really is that fast how it happens.~ looking at it Yeah. And to go, Yeah, it's good to know how old your kids are. hey, this is this is happening.~ yeah. And it's almost like in in like a church small group too. Like when you get with with couples and families that Mm-hmm. Yeah. can really, you know, have different age levels that can really provide a good good perspective there too. So in that, in that perspective of parent,~ somebody who's been in in this world for you know 20 plus years,~ what encouragement would you leave parents with as another school year Because I I really don't and I I think we we were really encouraging, we were real along the way, but I don't want it to be like a so watch out. Like Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's it's coming. What like yeah. what encouragement? What what cool things you can you can you leave~ parents with that have been listening and going, man, I didn't even realize that but to say but hold on, here's here's the good part or here are some some good things ~ you can leave I mean, this is where they become their own person. And you get a front row seat to watch that happen.~ But this is where they get to become that person and you get to take a step back. Do not fully sit back. Stay present. Stay in it with them. They want you to be present in them, even if they say they don't. Even if they say, Don't you dare talk to that teacher, don't you dare come to open house, come, come. Because that way they know that you're still invested, you're still involved, you still care.~ don't be afraid to show up. Don't be afraid to talk to them. Don't be afraid to you know, enforce the boundaries. Set the boundaries. You know, one of the things that I I didn't mention, but I I'll throw it in there is with the phones is Plug it up in someone somewhere else. Don't let them just have free reign of things. Plug it up at night in your room, things like that. ~ But so be present in their lives, but just enjoy the journey. Enjoy watching them become who they're gonna be.~ finding their spot, allow them to try different things. This is the time to try. They want to try different sports, different clubs. Encourage them to be involved in different things. That's how they're going to find their people.~ and see what they like and see what they don't.~ let them struggle a little bit. Don't don't feel like you have to rescue them right away. But just know that this time is short and it goes fast. Days will be long, right? Years are short, that whole thing is is completely true. But middle school doesn't have to be this scary, awful three years of your life.~ it can be a time in their life and in your life where you look back and go, you know, we had some good times because they still are kids, so do the fun stuff with them. And They're also trying to gain some independence. So enjoy that part of it too. Release a little bit of controls for them and let them let them fly. Wow. Tammy, I appreciate you just taking the time out of your preparation for getting to the school year and getting all things~ to really hopefully create a a good conversation for parents to be informed and encouraged along the way. So thanks for thanks for doing that. Yeah, of course. And and you know, as parents, tell to reach out to the schools, reach out to the counselors. We're here to help. Wow, what a great conversation, man. We covered everything from preparing for sixth grade and helping kids navigate friendships to building independence, handling phones and social media, and finding healthy ways to support students through the ups and downs of middle school life. And so I hope today's conversation gave gave you as parents or maybe somebody that knows some parents some practical ideas and maybe even more importantly some encouragement as another school year gets underway. So thanks so much for listening to Clarksville Insider again. My name is Josh Atkins, your host. And if you enjoyed this episode, I'd love for you to subscribe, leave a review, share it with a friend or another parent who could benefit from today's conversation. Of course, you can always follow Clarksville Insider on Facebook and Instagram for local stories, updates, and clips from this show and others. And so until next time, thanks for listening, and we'll see you on the next episode.