Cruising for Love: A Semester at Sea Love Story

When Jamie boarded the cruise ship for her Semester at Sea, romance was the last thing on her mind.

Semester at Sea was meant to be an adventure to prime her for her future career in media. She'd never given much thought to dating or relationships, let alone marriage or children. She was laser focused on making an impact on the big stage one day. 

But it was the smaller stage aboard the ship that changed the course of her life. It started as so many love stories do: "It was a guy with a guitar..."

In this episode, Jamie shares the story of falling in love while crossing oceans, navigating new countries, surviving both SARS and storms at sea, and building a relationship in the most unconventional of settings. She also reflects on what 25 years of marriage have taught her about partnership, growth, and supporting each other through every phase of life. 

Topics covered: long distance relationship, travel romance, marriage, partnership, how we met, media, career transitions

Connect with Jamie, and access her wealth of media knowledge:

Learn how to be On-Cam Ready with Jamie

Jamie's Free Visibility Bundle 

Jamie's YouTube 

Jamie's Instagram

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Kismet is a podcast about meeting the one: real stories, real people, real hope. New episodes drop biweekly on Thursdays! Follow along on Instagram: @kismetstoriespodcast.

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Follow the show on Instagram: @kismetstoriespodcast
Share your own Kismet moment: kismetstoriespodcast@gmail.com

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Transcript

EMILY: I'm Emily Callaway and this is Kismet.

Kismet is a podcast featuring your true love stories. Today I'm speaking with Jamie who will be sharing her story about, well, she wasn't looking for love when she went on a cruise around the world, but sometimes love has other plans.

Hello Jamie. Welcome to Kismet. Thank you so much for joining me.

JAMIE: Hi, I'm so glad to be here.

EMILY: Y'all so I met Jamie at a podcast meetup. She is sort of an expert on podcasting at Skewed Orbit here in Atlanta. And we connected afterwards and she mentioned about her love story. I thought she'd be a great person to have on the pod. So, so glad that you are willing to come on and talk to me.

JAMIE: I'm happy to be here and support you.

EMILY: Thank you so much. So to get started today, I'd love to just hear a little bit about you, just who you are, what you do, your passions, all of that sort of good stuff.

JAMIE: So I've worked in television news for over 20 years, working inside the engine of MSNBC, Fox News Channel, CNN. And then after 24 hour cable news, I spent some time at BET overseeing unscripted productions that included documentaries, as well as a live studio interview with Vice President Kamala Harris that I got to manage. It was a 150 person crew throughout my career. I have always helped people become camera ready. And I now lead in Atlanta the Producers Guild of America. I'm the chapter head here in Atlanta. So I host events and I also help out with Riverside FM events. Occasionally I'll help and talk to the community so that they can start leveling up with YouTube in mind. You know, video first is a big priority right now among podcasters. But outside of that, I run On Cam Ready Media. We help thought leaders and mission driven experts turn their thought leadership into content. So if they want to transform their digital footprint online and start to become more known, we help them strategize on how to do that in a way that will help them attract more clients and potentially the press. It's all about being relevant. And I take my clients through what I call a Known Framework to help them start to really shine and stand out online.

EMILY: That's amazing and definitely very, very needed these days with what all is going on in content creation and podcasting and YouTube and everything else. So, well, to get started, I'd love for you to tell us a little bit about your lead up to your love story. Give us some background on where you were in your life at the time that you met your person. If you were looking for love, what your relationship was to marriage and if you've been somebody that dreamed of the happily ever after, what your sort of outlook on that was.

JAMIE: When I was 19, I traveled around the world searching for answers about communication, media and economic diversity. But what I wound up finding was my person and my home in him. It was a very unique experience. I never actually thought I would be the one getting married and wanting children. So take you back to high school. You know, all the girls are sitting around the lunchroom table talking about, well, what would you name your kids and what kind of kids do you want? Do you want a girl and a boy or a boy and two girls? And I stood there and was like, I don't want kids. And it wasn't because I didn't like children. It was because I helped raise my own two young sisters. They were twins. And my mom would, when she had twins was like, you get one, I get one. And so I kind of already felt like I was a mom. And so that wasn't a part of my dream. My dream was to become an on-camera anchor or actress singing on stages. I didn't see me not being a public figure and that being the love of my life. And when I had this opportunity at the end of high school where I was selected to go to Africa, I wrote an article for a magazine about the economic diversity along the gold coast. And it was an archeological story. And I was very lucky to have won this opportunity. It changed a lot in me seeing the families there in Africa where all they wanted was to raise a family and protect their kids. I started to be like, okay, maybe I would want something of my own. So in college, I started to become more open to finding that love of my life. But I put my hope in one person thinking maybe he's the one, but he wasn't the one. And I knew he wasn't the one. And so when I went on my trip around the world, it was with Semester at Sea and I was 19 and my roommate at the time told me about it. I always had on my vision board to travel around the world. This was a great opportunity to check that off. So I went into it having already had this loss of like, I'm not dating anybody. This guy didn't work. I put my eggs in the wrong basket. I really want to just explore the world, understand how people live and focus on how media is produced in these different countries. We were very fortunate on this cruise. Semester at Sea doesn't really do many around the world cruises as it did then. So this one started from Florida and went all the way around the world and ended in Seattle, Washington. My roommate and I went into it unable to really afford the excursions because I was paying for college and I took out a loan to do this. So I wasn't one of those kids on this ship with a ton of money. And you know, it was one of those experiences that I wanted to have for myself. So I was not looking for love. And this guy, my now husband, was playing his guitar on the back of the ship.

EMILY: It's always a guy with a guitar.

JAMIE: Always a guy with a guitar. Yeah. And that moment in the back of the ship, we were leaving Cuba and we just had this surreal experience in Cuba. Like Fidel Castro invited our entire ship to his house. And we had this huge party. It was right around the time where the US was truly trying to build some relations back with Cuba. So I think that's why this was extended to us. So everyone's coming back to the ship, excited for life. And there he is playing his guitar with two other guys and they're jamming out, having a great night. And I just was in that mood of I am living out my best life and I went over and started to sing. I had a ska kind of cover band in college and high school. I also sang opera and I was a performer on stages, musical theater. So I just walked up, was listening to them and just started singing.

EMILY: And he sings. So you were harmonizing.

JAMIE: And you know how that works, right? You're like, okay, we get along. There's some rhythm here.

EMILY: Super cute. And was this at the beginning of your trip?

JAMIE: Beginning. Yeah. So Florida, Cuba, second location.

EMILY: How many people were on this boat?

JAMIE: Maybe 500, 700. It was a very small cruise ship. One of the smallest original Semester at Sea cruise ships.

EMILY: So I'm just thinking like, okay, so if a romance starts, then you're also stuck on a ship with this guy for the entire semester. If things go wrong, if things go right, you can have a quick bond, but if things go wrong, you're yeah, you're cooked.

JAMIE: You're hearing all those true crime stories about people going overboard. And I did not go on this ship thinking I would be finding the love of my life. I thought maybe a couple of flings, romance here in Cuba, romance here in South Africa. I wasn't going in for anything serious. And I was actually kind of already snuggling up with one guy at the time. Cuba already, everyone was already pairing up on this ship. So I looked at him and I was like, oh, he'd be a really cool friend. And so we all got together another day and decided to start a band doing cover songs and we would perform for the ship. And we pitched this idea to the Dean of the ship and he was like, we've never done this, this is such a great idea. So we created a band and they gave us practice space. And so he and I are now interacting all the time and you know how that is. If you're in an office romance or a school romance, you're seeing each other a lot. And you're playing off each other, flirting. And there was some of that chemistry with us because we already had that musical harmony, which you don't usually find very easily. Like that scene partner where you're like, okay, wow, we should really get together. That's how it was. And so we had good chemistry and I just kept saying, he's just a friend. Like I am not doing this because I can't get into anything serious right now. And my roommate kept saying to me, I think he's the one. And I was like, what are you even talking about? She's like, Jamie, he is so perfect for you and you need to really start thinking about this a bit more seriously. And she started to say this from Brazil to South Africa. So Brazil to South Africa is a very long excursion and I was hanging out with him. We were hanging out, building a band, and we decided to perform on the ship on our way to South Africa. And during that time, I was still like, nah, we just friends.

EMILY: And when you got to South Africa?

JAMIE: I saw he was looking for something to do. And I said, hey, you want to just go to dinner? Girl, he got the wrong signal. He thought this was a date. I'm like, no, we're going out to dinner, we're just friends. And he's like, oh, you sure? I'm like, yeah.

EMILY: Was anyone else at this dinner with you?

JAMIE: No.

EMILY: Okay then it's a date.

JAMIE: It's a date. And I'm like, no, we're just friends. So he gets me a rose. He's being all sweet. We're eating like alligator and exotic animals at a restaurant in Africa. And we went to a club in Africa. Like completely random first date experience because you're on this ship. And at the end he kept trying to move in on me. We pass his friend group and they're all drinking and hanging out. And I was like, okay, here's where we leave. I'm going to leave you here. You hang out with your friends and I'm going back to the ship. So that's how we actually got started. It just escalated from there.

EMILY: What a great first date, even if it wasn't like a date. Thinking back all these years later, your first date was in another country having this grand adventure. Not many people can say that. So when did things shift for you?

JAMIE: I kept pushing it off. And it wasn't until he performed on stage solo with another guy. I remember being in the audience and saying, this was after South Africa, he is the one. His music just spoke to my heart in a way no one ever did. And I saw him and I was almost crying listening to him. And when he got off stage, I got up out of my seat without even thinking. I just jogged out of the auditorium and I was looking for him and everyone's like, oh, I think he went to his room. So I chased down the steps and as I ran down the steps, he was at the base before the next round of steps. And he felt me coming, he said, and he turned around. And when I came down the steps, we just embraced and kissed. Never, ever saying we liked each other. It just was like a rom-com.

EMILY: It really does sound like a rom-com, that moment of recognition. So what was the hang up? Do you think you weren't ready before or did you have an idea of what you thought your person was going to look like or be like?

JAMIE: I didn't really have that because as I said, I didn't think I wanted to get married. So I didn't really dream up this man. I was very closed off. I am, this is not happening. He is not happening. I am not doing this. I have a career to plan. I have a life to plan and I'm in college on a trip that I need to focus. And in that moment of him singing and opening my heart, I just had this click. And my girlfriend next to me was like, run to him. She was like, you just got to give in. And so I listened. I finally listened to her and she was right. And I think some of us really try to paint the picture of like, this is what it has to be and it can't be anything else. And he has to fit a certain box. And you sometimes have to just go with your gut. Did I know it was going to go on forever at that moment? No, but I knew there was something more there that I needed to explore.

EMILY: So take me on from there. You have this magical kiss. How did things grow from there?

JAMIE: It was us just spending every day together on this cruise ship and now traveling around the world. Our first romantic date was in India. I saved up for my trip in Africa as well as in India because I wanted to do the Taj Mahal. So we had different excursions and we went our separate ways after this first night in India. This first night in India, we all went out to this extraordinarily incredible Indian restaurant where we sat at a table of like 40 people and we all shared food and ate in a very customary way. And after that we went to this extremely elaborate gold building. We were having a very nice night in India. And he and I were there with all of our friends and I just remember the night ending. I didn't want to leave him. I just didn't want him to go. And so he went his separate way and I went mine and I just kept having this tugging of I need to really be with this person. And so when I flew back, I took the train, I can't remember, we both flew back from our locations in India and we're all in this airport. I had no idea he would be in the same airport. And I just had this feeling I needed to go back inside. And my girlfriends and I were like, okay, what? I was like, maybe I just need to go to the bathroom or something. I just feel like I need to go back inside. Maybe we should get some pictures. Let's just go back in before we board the bus. And I go back in and there he is walking through the airport. And I just remember running to him and we just hugged and it felt like I found my person. And it just grew from there. Every location we started to get to know each other better. You're in these unique, stressful places, trying to navigate a whole country together. And we didn't really pay for many excursions after this. So every location we got the opportunity to really experience one another. We were supposed to go to Vietnam and China, but there was a SARS outbreak. So we were all stuck on the ship for a very extended period of time without leaving. And that was a test. Like, can we handle each other? We were all being told to share a shower because we're running out of water and to not eat too much because we were running out of food. So when we finally got to Japan, that was our first drop off. And I felt like by South Korea, I was not feeling it. I was like, okay, we've been through too much. I think I just needed a break. We've been together every single day through a very intense experience. Singing together, on a ship together, in school together. Everything. And he was the lead singer and I was backup, which I wasn't really happy with.

EMILY: The whole band thing adds a whole other dynamic.

JAMIE: A whole dynamic. And so we had this argument and I think it was the fact that we came back together with solutions and resolutions and didn't cut it. It was like, well, wait, I really feel this and I think we're feeling this because of X, not because of what we have. Like we need to give this a shot. So if we're going to give this a shot, we got to get through the hard stuff. And he was the one kind of saying that. Like, I am happy. Let's just try to get through this moment.

EMILY: And the universe had other plans?

JAMIE: I swear the universe and God has a very big impact sometimes in connecting people. So from Japan to Alaska was a horrible storm. And again, we're on this very small cruise ship and the ship is going like this where when it went like this, the windows were underwater. People are just sliding all over the place. Everyone's like, stay in your rooms. The water kept hitting the window. I was up on a top floor and we started to get flooding into our room. So my roommate and I had to move to an interior room and it was so scary. And he was like, I want you in my room. Like I need to make sure you're okay. And it was that moment of, oh, he really wants to protect me. He wants to make me safe. He became like my safety boat. And I became his. And I think that escalated the relationship even further. By the time we got to Alaska and we're wrapping up the trip and I'm about to go to Seattle, I was like, I feel like you're my person. I don't know how we're going to make this work, but we really need to try. And we started to even talk about marriage. And now we're talking, this is a semester, folks.

EMILY: Yeah, like we're not even, this is only a semester, but it felt like a year. And that's crazy. It seems like one of those vacation romances almost where things are heightened because you do pack so much in and you get to know each other in a different way than if you're seeing the same person every day in your normal life. You know it's for a moment in time and you're having these really heightened experiences going to these new places and experiencing very different worlds from your own. Getting lost in different cities, experiencing scary storms. I can imagine that forges a bond that most people aren't exposed to at that age.

JAMIE: Yeah. And I know I was 20 and then I turned 21 on the ship. So we're at that age of there's so much more ahead. Your career hasn't started. Your life hasn't really started. And now here I am starting to think, okay, I found my partner for life. And I remember introducing him to my parents and my parents are like, I'm sorry, who is this? Why is he staying? Because at the time we didn't have really good internet. So I didn't really write them very many letters or emails saying hey, I met a guy. I remember saying that I'd love for you to meet him. They just didn't realize how serious it was. When he was staying with us in our hotel, they're like, what's happening? What are we doing? I was like, oh, I told him he could stay with us. And they were very much like, okay, we need some time to process this.

EMILY: It's such a funny time. I think back when I was about that age, I had a serious boyfriend too and he came home with me after about six months. I definitely told everyone he was just my friend. He was not just my friend. So, asking somebody that never really saw themselves getting married or having children and then you meet this guy who is like your person, where was your mindset after that? When you departed and left each other after the semester at sea, were you fully in at that point or were you still pushing away at this idea, saying like, I still need to focus on my career and what's next for me?

JAMIE: I was still into the focus. However, I remember being almost like depressed. It was this feeling of, oh my gosh, like I don't know if I can do this. And because our ship had so much go wrong, SARS, a huge storm, they offered us to go back around the world in the following year at a huge discount. And everyone was like, all right, we're going to Russia. And I couldn't imagine going without him. So I actually chose to take a semester in New York City working at ABC on One Life to Live the soap opera. And I ran scripts. It was so fun. But I did that because then I could be home in New Jersey and he was in Pennsylvania and we could see each other more. And one of the summers before graduation, he took the summer to stay with me. So I chose to do an off campus apartment so that he could stay with me and other roommates so that we did have those long extended periods of time where we could be together while we're trying to navigate what's next. And when I graduated, I got a job in New Jersey at MSNBC and I was able to stay at home. And when I did that, he dropped everything to move out to me. And it was surreal. He got a job in construction from my dad and lived at the guy who owned the company's house just so he could be near us. And so eventually my parents were like, okay, this is pretty serious, huh? I'm like, yeah, like we're in. So it just grew from there.

EMILY: Wow. It sounds like he was very mature for his age. I mean, you also sound like you were very mature for your age. But you don't hear a lot of stories about especially men being that centered and realizing what they have at 21, 22 years old, and making those kinds of moves.

JAMIE: Yeah. I mean, he graduated from Pitt and he could have gotten a job somewhere anywhere. And he chose not to. And so I pushed him. He wanted to write scripts for film and TV and he was an English major. So I started to get him to write and pushed him to put himself out there. And along the way, he wound up landing a job at Sony Music in one of the most niche professions. And now he's a very desired individual in business management and royalties. He works now for the music artist side, where he represents more of their needs and their royalty requests. And so now he gets to work from home and has this really niche, cool job that incorporates writing. And if we weren't together and I didn't push him to put his application into these places and try for big things, he may not have landed there. And I know I would not have landed at Fox News Channel if it wasn't for him. He took an interview at Fox because I told him to interview for a writer job there. And he didn't take the job because he was interested in the Sony Music job. So he said, I'm going to pass, but I think you should interview my friend Jamie. And so they interviewed me and that got me in the door.

EMILY: Wow. So I mean, this is something that I talk about pretty often in my podcast, but I think the best partnerships really are the ones where you do inspire each other to grow and you are better together than you are apart. And it sounds like that's certainly the case for the two of you.

JAMIE: Yes, I would definitely agree. And it helps now. So now with having had such a long career, we have two children. That career when it happened, I'm working in New York City, I'm working at Fox News Channel. We bought a place together there. And then we both had this desire to potentially have children because we have each other and we got married and it was like, yeah, I think if I'm going to start a family, it's with you. And I got this opportunity to move to Atlanta, Georgia and work at CNN. So we decided to jump at it. We kept trying to picture a child in our apartment in Jersey City and we're like, that's not happening. So we moved down here and I kid you not, we sold our place and Sandy hit and that place flooded. So I'm glad we had made the transition to Atlanta. But I was pregnant within a few months of being here. And so now I'm in this new job and I'm like, hi, this was not expected.

EMILY: So wait, you're about to be a mom. Oh my gosh. How long have you guys been married now?

JAMIE: Oh gosh. I mean, I've been with him since I'm 20. So I'm 44. We're going to be 25 years next year. That's all I keep thinking.

EMILY: That's wild. Here I am 44 and I haven't even begun my journey.

JAMIE: You'll get there, girl.

EMILY: It's funny, I actually had a couple of friends that did Semester at Sea when I was at college. And I remember them talking about how special of an experience it was. Well, all of that sounds amazing. It makes me also want to go on Semester at Sea as a 44 year old. My sister actually found her love on Semester at Sea too.

JAMIE: Oh my God. Both of you, your parents were like, this is the best decision we've ever made.

EMILY: Yeah. Well, they didn't stay together forever, but they were together a very long time and she found him on Semester at Sea. So if this is not a plug for Semester at Sea! But yeah, that's crazy. Well, it makes me want to look into some sort of a version of that for adults. They have lifelong learners programs actually. I'm a big traveler so the opportunity to go to all of those diverse locations all on the same trip sounds pretty incredible. So obviously you've been together for 25 years. Obviously there are ups and downs along the way. What are some of the things you've learned through your marriage and relationship?

JAMIE: You know, your significant other, you do want them to be your best friend. And I think starting out with him being kind of like my guy best friend on this ship really did make the difference because we were already able to know what it's like to have a relationship with each other that wasn't just being in love with one another, having hard conversations. And I think you need to have someone who has your back and you need to have theirs. I have always had huge, big dreams. And sometimes I feel like maybe he minimized his dreams to make room for mine. And it's important to not do that for one another all the time, but I feel like he did it at the right times. When my opportunities came, he knew it was time to let them breathe. So CNN was one of those jobs that I never thought I'd leave and I freelance there occasionally now, but my full time role ended. And it was heartbreaking for me because here I am, my show got canceled, my role got ended and I'm like, what am I doing? Who am I? And I got lucky where BET offered me a job before I even left CNN. Again, Kismet, right? And that job started right away. So I was like, fine, I'm not going to work at CNN, I'm going to work at BET and I'm going to put all my eggs into this basket. And my husband was very much supportive. But the strikes happened and my role at BET ended at the same time my severance ended and suddenly we're living on savings. And that's when the stressors start. We put our daughter in private school to support her dyslexia and now we got to take her out. And you know, those tension points are what break marriages. You really need to have a strong relationship. And that's what we've been able to do for one another, is be there for each other but also allow each other to have the dreams that they need. So at that time I was pushing him to leave Sony and go to the music artist side and life just worked out. He was able to get an increase in his salary because we believed and we tried and we kept supporting one another and it balanced us out again. And I think his job actually came before the main struggle. So it was just like a sequence of events that could have crashed and burned, but didn't because we had each other's backs and we gave each other space to live out that dream. So when he was starting to climb in his role, I started to pull back and focus on the kids. And when you do that for each other and you make room for each other, it works. But when you both are trying really hard to go heavy on big dreams, I think it does create some tension. So we've been creating a balance and a space for one another's dreams. And right now he has essentially pushed me to not find a job, to be on my own, to start my own business. He's like, this is your moment. And so in that conversation of me focusing on my business for the last year, it's really not been about his. And now he has a promotion coming thankfully. But I now need to essentially make my reality of building a business less of his concern and come back to that balance point.

EMILY: I think it's beautiful that you have given each other the space to grow and for those dreams to change and evolve as time goes on. Being each other's cheerleader, but also giving each other space to explore what's next. That's really awesome. Do you have any advice for my listeners who have not found the one?

JAMIE: I think it is important to put yourself out there, always. We all say that, but also to allow the unexpected to take place. If you are meeting a guy and you're like, oh no, he's not what I'm looking for, maybe he is. Don't shut it down right away. You never know. I have a friend who was searching for love, searching for love, didn't find the right guy. She met this guy and she was very much like, he's not my type. He's not what I look for. He doesn't have the money I need and he doesn't even dress the way I need my guy to dress. And now they've been together for a very long time. And it also happened to my other girlfriend. She's in her forties and she didn't find her guy until her forties. And it was that moment of okay, this I didn't expect, but now they live together, they have dogs together, they're building a life together. And it's only because she allowed it. She gave herself permission to do something different and to allow someone in that wasn't checking all the boxes. And I think you need to be open-minded to that because if you're always looking for does this person fit, you may not ever find the puzzle piece that will make you complete.

EMILY: I love that. It's a very beautiful way of phrasing things. And to your point about that, I just got back from France. I was there for two and a half weeks and prior to that trip I've been sort of in this journey recently where I've been building my own business and working on this podcast and pursuing dreams that have been buried for a minute. And I haven't really made time or space for dating. But when I went to France because it was vacation mode, I found myself a lot more open to it. I went on several dates while I was there. One was somebody that normally if I was in Atlanta I would say no to because he was quite a bit older than me and that's not usually something I gravitate toward. But I was like, well, I'm in France, why not? Had a great time. It wasn't a forever match or anything like that, but I learned a lot and had very interesting, deep conversations. And then that opened the way up for another date with another guy who was more of my type. I just find myself more present in my life when I let go of that intentionality. Like intentionality is important if you want children, if you want X, Y, and Z. But at the same time, to your point, you might be closing yourself off from people who may come in a different form than you expected and may bring a depth and connection that was unanticipated.

JAMIE: That's such a good point and I'm going to share this personal moment. I worked in television news for 20 plus years and when you're in a television news control room, you're in control. You're choosing every shot, as a producer I'm choosing what airs when, who gets seen and how it's presented. I'm producing history in the making. And there's this moment at the end of the show where the lights go out, the room gets dim, everyone gets quiet and the chaos settles. And it's kind of this dip to black moment. And there was this moment after I left the control room, I started to think back to what it was like there because I loved it so much. And I was trying to figure out who I was at this point. My job ended. My husband's telling me to figure out who I am. I had two spine surgeries that he had to deal with because I just wasn't taking as good care of myself when I was working. It was all about work and kids and I didn't put the effort in for me. So I had two spine surgeries in less than a year that he had to manage. I was in a lot of pain. And so I was reflecting back on the control room. What was it that I loved about it? And at the end, you know, the room goes dark, the anchor walks out of the frame and we all start planning ahead. And my husband gave me the permission essentially to choose to walk into the frame of my own life. Because I never realized that throughout my entire career while I was producing history for everyone else, I wasn't actually producing my own life. My life was in draft mode. And he gave me the permission to essentially publish it and put myself out there and hand myself the mic and be the person I was feeling I was meant to be. And that's what you need to do for your partner. You need to be able to hand them the mic when they need it and encourage them to step into the frame of their own story, their own life. Because once he gave me that permission and I committed to publishing and producing my own story, so much began to build. And I was able to really start to find my place in this world after a long career and build a business. And it wouldn't have been possible if he didn't do that for me.

EMILY: I love that metaphor. And it brought me back to what you were first discussing about being the backup singer. And I think it's beautiful now that you're also producing your own life, so to speak, and producing your own dreams. So on that note, tell us where we can find you and learn from you because you know so much about this industry.

JAMIE: Well, guys, if you want to learn more about how to be on camera ready for moments like this or media hits or heck the stage, I talk about what it takes to be on camera ready on YouTube at On Cam Ready. That's the handle. I also work with individuals who are trying to strategically position themselves so they are more visible and can attract clients and potentially earn the media that their work deserves. I also hold a women's networking group in Atlanta. We are focused on supporting one another on that journey of unknown to known. We provide a space for women who are authors, speakers, high stakes communicators, podcasters, who are just looking to find their people on that journey. And that's the Known Collective.

EMILY: I'm going to have to look into that for sure. Well Jamie, thank you so much. I feel like I've learned a lot from this conversation and I know that everyone else who is listening or watching right now will also feel the same way. So thank you again for sharing your thoughts and your story with us.

JAMIE: No problem. Thanks for having me.

EMILY: Thank you for tuning into this week's episode of Kismet. If you haven't already, please give us a like or leave us a comment wherever you're listening. It really does help. If you have your own Kismet story, I'd love to hear from you. Please send it to me at KismetStoriesPodcast.com. Until next time, be bold, be kind and be open to everyday magic. Your person may be just on the street or they may be on the same cruise around the world and soon you find yourself singing to the exact same beat.

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