Dr. Robin L. Smith on Collective Grief, Healing, and Honoring the Wholeness of Black Lives

Renowned psychologist and author Dr. Robin L. Smith joins Esther Dillard for a profound and emotional conversation on the anniversary of George Floyd’s death. In this episode of The Color Between the Lines, Dr. Smith reflects on personal loss, the spiritual ache felt in the Black community, and why it’s crucial to remember the whole person when we say Black Lives Matter.

She shares lessons from her book The Invisible Ache, co-authored with Emmy Award-winning actor Courtney B. Vance, and explores the intersection of individual grief and collective trauma.

This episode is for anyone seeking healing, truth, and a deeper understanding of how personal loss mirrors national pain—and how storytelling can be a pathway to transformation.

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Transcript

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It's. I'm Esther Dillard chatting with writers, authors, and experts who offer an added perspective for listeners. This is the color between the lines. so let's go back to May 2020. The pandemic had been just declared in March. People had been sheltering in place. And then in May, George Floyd is literally killed in front of all of America and the world on video. And what did you see from as far as your patients and black Americans that. What did you see from them as far as how emotionally this was impacting them? You know, it's interesting as I reflect almost, you know, five years ago, I want to share something personal first. Just that my mother at the time, who was 98 years old and vibrant and powerful. Her mother lived to be 108 and a half. Yeah. Only dying in my grandmother in 2012. So my mother was well. And when she turned 98 in March, right when the shutdown happened, everyone said, you've got at least another 10 years. And she died on 28 May. May. And her service was the same day of George Floyd's June 9th. And so I talked about that at her eulogy, that there were major moves and grief happening all around the country and world, some for my mother, but certainly for George Floyd. So I share that because there is a particular grief that I not only shared with the world, but I also shared with my family as I reflected that these. My mother had lived a great, magnificent life. And then I looked at George Floyd, who was killed in front of all of us, and we watched it again and again and again that this will happen. You know, also I'm sure, this fifth year anniversary. And we have to think about how we are not only traumatized in the moment, but how we re. Traumatize ourselves without knowing it. You know, sometimes we call it honor because we want to bear witness to the unimaginable crime, crime of life that happened to George Floyd. Crime of the soul. Just a crime of justice, injustice. So we feel at times that our way of Paying homage is to continue to bear witness to the very thing that not only keeps us up at night, but that actually tortures the soul. And so I say that because we have an opportunity in this moment of reflecting five years later that Covid is not gone. We should also be quite aware that it is not over. It has changed form and formulas, and so has racism. It's not gone. And the hatred often and fear of black bodies, and particularly black male bodies, we're in a time right now that we also could not have imagined would revisit. So it is not just George Floyd's the anniversary of his killing, but it is also a political landscape that seems as shocking and yet predictable if we don't deal with what is going on within. And this is for all of us, this is all every human being. I say if it doesn't come out in the wash, it's going to come out in the rinse, but it is coming out. And so this is really what we are looking at, the manifestation of hate. What at that time, were you telling folks that were dealing with emotions at that time? What did you advise them to do? Who were, who were very much traumatized, who were trying to put it in a box or put it somewhere? How were you telling them to deal with it? Yeah, this was then and it is now that we have to parcel out how much of something we let in. And it's really essential that people are. I mean, you're a journalist and in many ways so am I. I'm a psychologist, I'm a minister, but I've spent a lot of time in the media and, you know, working on television and radio and. And of course we want people watching and listening and participating in our conversation. No question about that. And it is important that every human being protects what I call our central nervous system. We don't think about what we do to our central nervous system. So I have people who know me well, both professionally, but also family, and I'll just say, this is not good for my central nervous system. And they will chuckle and I'll say, no, no, I mean that I'm really paying attention. And so what I was telling people then is what I am telling people now. Pay attention to what the information is doing to you. Is it making you more anxious? Is it making you more aggressive? Is it creating deeper fear or hostility or paranoia? You know, all paranoia does not mean that we are out of touch with reality. And at the same time, how do you, me and everyone who is, you know, joining us in this moment how do we begin to self protect, not be in denial? This isn't about burying our heads or our hearts in the sand, but it is about saying, how much access am I giving something that is traumatic? How much do I let it creep in? How much does it get in that I'm unaware? See, this is the other part. We could say, oh, I am protective. And then if we were to peel the onion back and take a closer look under the microscope, if you will, we might find that there are things that find themselves in us that we didn't know had entered. I wanted you to hopefully address something that I had talked to other medical professionals and mental health professionals about, and that is that they felt that since George Floyd's passing that there has been an increase in at least awareness of culturally competent care. Meaning those professionals like yourself are looking at the cultural landscape and applying it to the patient when it wasn't that way in the past. Do you see that as well? And how so? Yeah, I do. Some of us have been doing that for, you know, the last two decades. And then there were others who were maybe a little delayed in arriving at the reality that particularly African American and black people do bring a unique set of dynamics to the table of their own lives. And if you have a medical or psychological perspective that does not take into account the unique particularities that a black person brings. And I would say that any, you know, we're dealing with immigration or maybe, I don't know if we're dealing with it or not, but it is stirred up. And so unless we are able to really see how does this person who sits in front of me, what is their story and what is the uniqueness of their story because of the cultural and racial and ethnic and sexual preferences and orientation, what does that put in front of me? And unless I can see the wholeness of that person, it's quite likely that my treatment of them would be and not treatment. I mean, that could be again, medical, psychological, but also how I see them as a whole human being. You know, I tell people that we all have holes H o l e s longing to be whole w h o l e which is a holy h o l y journey. And so a part of what you're asking in terms of cultural competence is how do I understand the particular holes h o l e s and how have they been ushered in? What has enslavement created not only in the person who was enslaved, but also in the enslaver? There's so many ways that if we're only looking at where we are victim and not how, you know, where does the perpetrator. And because if we aren't addressing that whole, you know, system, it is impossible to really work toward healing. And that's part of what's happening in this country. There is. This is true for the country. It is true for families that, you know, we cannot want to see parts of our own families. We don't want to know things that we don't want to know. But it doesn't mean that they're not true. It doesn't mean, because I don't want to know something, because it feels unbearable, that there was abuse or sexual or physical or verbal abuse in our family's addiction. So my denial does not make it not so. And this is also true in the country. George Floyd's killing. We can want it to be something other than what it was. And if we do that, we miss the opportunity to feel the gut punch and the brutality of watching him die and die unnecessarily die. Because we are still struggling in this country with issues that we don't want to own. And just because we don't want to own them does not make them so. I think it's very interesting, the whole dynamic, that there's so many layers that could be addressed here in terms of. Especially with black men and how they have to now navigate in this new landscape, especially this new political climate. And how do you, I guess, advise. What do you see as far as how black men are dealing with this political landscape as well as dealing with police, you know, trying to keep themselves safe, yet keep their masculinity, all that. It's just so many different layers in that. What. What are you finding that is helping, I guess, them navigate it. Yeah. You know, when we go on the. Like on a site, on the, you know, online, sometimes there is a request for verification, and it will say. It used to say, you know, verify this and where was your, you know, cousin born? Or what school did you go to? And I saw something. You are aware, of course, that Courtney B. Vance and I wrote the Invisible Ache. And one of the things as Courtney and I were on the road together talking about the invisible lake, particularly to and with black men or black women who love their sons, brothers, partners. One of the things that I shared as I had gone online, and there was something I had not seen before, and now I've. I have. I've seen it many times. And it says, check, I am human. The reason I mention that is when you ask about what am I seeing? And Saying to black men and black boys, it is to check their box that indeed, I am human. Not three fifths, not some fractured piece of a human being, but I am human. And so it is in their humanity that black men and boys, I'm hoping and certainly encouraging them to claim all of who they are. And that means their feelings, those that they're comfortable with and those that they are maybe afraid of or ashamed of. I mean, that's part of their birthright to be wholly human. You know, that harm that can come from a boy or a man of any race, but particularly African American, to feel like that they cannot cry because tough boys and tough men and, you know, somebody will think I'm a punk or it'll, you know, take my. My power away. Not knowing that not only are tears our teachers, so when they show up, they're there for a reason, but also, not only are they a teacher, but they're part of your superpower to know that indeed, I am human. And so when we've had our humanity chipped away at, and particularly black boys and men, they could find themselves feeding into a narrative that they themselves did not write, that does not serve them well, and that actually reinforces that I'm not human. human, five fifths all the way, 100%, 10 toes down, human. And so that is what I am encouraging the black men and boys in my life and in my work, in my heart, that they check the box. I am human. I love that. I love that. How has this. Since George Floyd's passing and the new political landscape, how has that, I guess, affected your practice and affected you personally? Has there been a change in the. The differences of people coming into your doors, like younger people, people that you've never seen before? I wonder. It's interesting. I have, because my work is not as much in private practice in the same way anymore. But I have a lot of people who are reaching out to me, both younger and also older black boys and young, you know, young men and. And older men who are trying to figure out how to piece their. Their lives together in this new landscape. What does it mean to stay safe and at the same time to live, you know, to not withdraw from life and withdraw from. And this is true for people in general. There are a lot of people who want to just check out at least maybe for the next two to four years. And hope that things will get better. And while I understand that that's not how it works, this is an inside job that requires that we show up for active duty. And active duty doesn't just mean the hard work. It also means pleasure. I'm really encouraging boys and men like, where are you? Where's your joy? What are you doing for fun and for lightness, for delight? And sometimes people look at me like, well, what world are you in? And I said, I'm in the same one you're in. Which means that it's a requirement. Again, part of your strength and part of your superpower is that there has to be joy and community in the mix of this hard work. So I'm. I'm seeing. Somebody just asked me yesterday, you know, what percentage of people and of black boys and men, like, do I think that they are less engaged? And I said, no, actually, I think they are more engaged and more attuned. That they belong here. Yeah. I'm going to say the final word because I know that we've covered a lot of. A lot of ground, but there might be something that you feel that you wanted to make a point and that people could, I guess, take away from our conversation. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. There is a proverb that I often quote, and it says. It's an African proverb that says, the lion's story will never be known as long as the hunter is the one to tell it. And so I leave us, you, me, all those who have gathered the audience with the takeaway, how essential it is to tell your own story. And you might say, Dr. Robin, people don't care. I'm in a society. I'm in a family. I'm on a job where no one cares, and I don't know where someone is. But what I do know is this, that who needs to care about your story is you. That often the person we've been waiting for has been waiting for us, and it is us. So Prince Charming and Princess Charming isn't necessarily coming, but who has already arrived is the originator of your own story. And so I just want to remind people of the power of telling your own story. The lion story will never be told, never be known, as long as the hunter is the one to tell it. And sometimes we think that the hunter is outside, and there is a hunter outside, but there can become a hunter inside, where I begin to participate of my own dignity. And so I encourage everyone to claim your own story and find a safe person or community to tell it. There's freedom and there is liberation and there is joy and there is strength when we tell and claim our own story. Thank you, Dr. Robin L. Smith, for joining us on the Bin. Thank you so much. It's been my honor. Esther, thank you so much. That's it for this edition of the Color between the Lines. You can catch more episodes on the Color between the Lines YouTube channel on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts.