Vegans for Palestine Podcast - Episode 02 - The Great Explosion: Edward Said & The Naksa of 1967

Vegans for Palestine Podcast - Episode 02 - The Great Explosion: Edward Said & The Naksa of 1967

The Naksa of 1967 had a profound impact on Palestinian Scholar, Edward Said, in similar ways that the current genocide in Gaza is having upon young people around the world today. In this episode, Dalal and Ryan pay tribute to Edward Said, and link the Naksa to the current events with a Vegan Palestinian lens.

This podcast is captioned here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTOZB8TCoGI

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Sources

• Music in the beginning by @IsmailElnimer on Instagram:
  
  

https://www.instagram.com/ismail.elnimer/r...

• More on Edward Said:
     • Edward Said: 'Out of Place' | Al Jaze...  

 (minute 16:21)
   • EDWARD SAID and Palestine (1988) with...  (minute 19:50)

• Clip of Najla Said (daughter of Edward Said) from:
     • Interview with Najla Said over pro-Pa...  

• Music in the end by Shadia Mansour and Mahmoud Jrere:
     • badi salam  بدّي سلام -mahmood jrere ...  

Transcript

[Music]

Dalal: Really, it's weird

... just trying to ...

reading through the history

and just reading the different stories

that are out there on social media platforms

or through research

I think it's just hard

trying to think how people felt

going through that Exodus

through that displacement

and land confiscation

and annexation and

just more borders

more control

more Palestinians kicked out of Palestine

and just trying to seek refuge in neighboring countries

or in other countries of the world

it's hard Ryan

I don't know I can't imagine

how you feel

how your family felt leaving Palestine and

yeah how do you feel about the Naksa

Ryan: as I was reading up about the Naksa

it made me think about the current genocide quite a bit

in terms of the strategies

the sort of

the propaganda strategies that the colonizers tend to employ

they haven't changed

they're not very original

yeah Dalal like

they use the same old stuff again and again

claiming that the Naksa was a 'war' of no choice

they say the same thing about what's happening right now in Gaza

you know

claiming that they're there for one thing

they tell the world one thing but they do something else

but I think what we should do

is we should start off by telling our listeners

that the word Naksa

actually means The Setback

and I found that really interesting

did you want to explain Dalal what is meant by The Setback

because your Arabic is better than mine

Dalal: yeah I mean the Naksa

or as translates into 'The Relapse'

or 'The Defeat'

really, I think it was just another way to say

another Nakba happened

and that mainly it's [called] the Naksa because

I think there were some high hopes

that the Arab armies could be liberating Palestine

and just resolving this entire ...

I don't want to call it 'issue' really

because a lot of what we see today in the media

it's just calling it an 'issue' or a 'conflict' and that's it ...

but really

just putting an end to the ethnic cleansing of Palestine

and just the high hopes around the Arab armies

and the belief that they could be

the reason they end the suffering

and bring back the Palestinian refugees

but then the Naksa happened

and the Naksa is when 'the defeat' of the Arab armies

due to different reasons mainly I think it's even one of those even myths

around how there was an assumption that these Arab armies were prepared

or they had a unified mission

that they are going into that quote unquote 'war'

against quote unquote ['army']

I think just the lack of preparedness

and the lack of vision

and objective by the different countries

the Arab countries and their armies going into the war with Israel

after about 20 years

I think it was even 19 years

since 1948 up to 1967 and

the continuous expansion

and ethnic cleansing of Palestine

I think people just had the thought things could just change overnight and

sadly that was just even another culmination of

adding more and more to the suffering of the Palestinian people

and that is the Naksa

and even just saying the word Naksa

doesn't even you know tell you much about things because you have to ..

just look at how this 67 'War' took over the West Bank

the Gaza Strip

Ryan: yes

Dalal: the Golan Heights

the annexation of East Jerusalem

because it was already divided

and also the Sinai Peninsula

just looking back at that history

and just looking at the map

and how the map changed over the years

it should be ..

living proof how what we see today in Gaza Strip

is a continuation of the continuous expulsion/ethnic cleansing of Palestinians

Ryan: yep

Dalal: yeah

Ryan: colonization .. that's exactly what it is

it's part of this ..

when you research the history of the Naksa

you see it is an extension of the Nakba

and

those of us that are paying attention to the story of Palestine

would say that the current genocide in Gaza

is an extension of both the Nakba and the Naksa

so if you and I both put ourselves in the shoes of our (in the case one of my) parents and our grandparents

what we see is that after 1948

there was this assumption

that still exists today

within Palestinian society

that we are going home

and so that's why it's called 'The Setback'

Because after about 19 years

after the Nakba,

instead of being able to go home

it was like oh God another delay

another defeat

I think that's why we have to have this conversation

because ..

what we see in colonial projects around the world

is that

those that colonize like to write the history

and when the colonizers here

- that being the Israelis and the Zionist movement -

when they recall what happened in 1967

they claim that it was either a war between equal sides and the Israelis just won ..

or that Israel was this poor minute David versing a bunch of Goliath Arab armies

and that's not the case at all

in most cases it actually wasn't a war

and that's why it was only 6 days

it's because Israel was actually ..

it's my understanding the state of Israel was versing a bunch of armies that were fleeting and escaping

and were already destabilized

maybe we need to set the scene

maybe we need to take a step back, Dalal

maybe we need to explain

who controlled the Gaza Strip and who controlled the West Bank

Dalal: I think it's important that when we look at the 48 Nakba

and the aftermath of the Nakba

and how the West Bank was under the Jordanian Rule

and the Gaza Strip was under the Egyptian rule

and these two parts of the territory

if I should call them that

they were actually part of the partition plan

that the United Nations set in the hopes of

resolving what they call the 'question of Palestine'

or the 'Palestinian Israeli conflict'

however

with the 1967 war

it even added more

it even caused more issues when we started seeing how

those territories were ..

if they were even the last hope of a Palestinian State

.. they were under the Israeli military occupation and [Israeli] Rule

and that's why those countries specifically were involved

and it's also worth mentioning how

between the 1949 and then 1956

Palestinians weren't just expelled

some people actually attempted going back crossing the borders

those attempts caused deaths and killings of even more Palestinians

because the Israeli forces on these 'borders'

were blocking people from coming back

or crossing back into the country

so if there was any hope that

this 22 I think 22% of the land

that was left from this 77%

that was controlled in 1948

that that part of the land that was

you know 'proposed' in the partition plan

that was confiscated

and specifically the West Bank and the Gaza Strip

because they were under the Egyptian and Jordanian rules

that was not the case anymore

and when you look at the history you see some remnants of these rules

in terms of the kind of laws that we have in Palestine

but I think it's important when we also look at the history

that we hear about the resolution 181

of 1947 and then

242 of 1967

and these resolutions

they were attempts from the bigger body of the United Nations to resolve

or try to maybe give hope to Palestinians

that there is a solution for things ..

but then also

the aftermath of all of these events

when you see those Accords or treaties

that they were signed in the hope also to

um quote unquote 'resolve'

the Palestinian

quote unquote 'issue'

uh nothing was successful at all and

we started seeing how the United States became more of an ally to Israel

and how the Palestinians were

trying to develop some sort of organized

I think we can just call it Liberation Movement

seeing how the resistance movement started growing

and started becoming part of

an integral part of the Palestinian resistance

and Palestinian steadfastness

not just in the aftermath of 1948

but also

throughout the history

Ryan: in the Gaza Strip you had Egyptian soldiers in 1967 fleeing

as the Israelis took over

and in the West Bank

and East Jerusalem

you had um the Jordanians leaving

Jordanian soldiers leaving

and before they left ..

this is the recollection that I was told from my family is that

in some cases they went from house to house

looking for civilian clothing

because they were trying to get back to Jordan peacefully

without being captured by the Israelis

to me that doesn't really tell me that it's a war

and this is what is quite common when the Israelis try and write history

they fictionalize and mythologize a lot

I mean that's quite common

they're incredibly racist

similar to other settler colonial projects

but

they also claimed that there was this battle

where in fact it was just

a group of Arab armies that were taken by surprise

It's amazing how ... it's this idea of

you know

'the war of no choice'

the settler Colony claimed that you know

1967 happened and Israel had no choice

and you know

the question I have is well if you had no choice

and you had to take over

the Gaza Strip

the Sinai Peninsula

the Golan Heights

the West Bank ....

why didn't they give it all back?

they didn't give it all back because of colonization

and this is something I learned in researching the Naksa

is that

whilst us Palestinians

after 1948 to 1967

we were looking for ways to go back

the Israelis were actually quite angry with themselves

about 1948

and they were angry because

they wanted to take every inch of Falasteen

not just the bit in between that

they initially took in 1948

so from the 1960s onwards

they were looking for any excuse

of trying to colonize the rest of Palestine

and so

I would encourage all listeners to really think about

this repetitive discourse of the 'no choice'

the idea that the colony has no choice

because we see it play out in Gaza today

because we hear this excuse constantly

no choice but to murder civilians

no choice but to behead Palestinian babies

which is what we've seen recently

no choice but to

to 'defend' the colony

and starve children across Gaza

this rhetoric is really really tiresome

it's incredibly racist

but we're hearing it over and over again

used to justify violence against Palestinian bodies

used to justify violence against human and non-human animals

across the Gaza Strip

it's very very carnivore in terms of its logic

you know it's you find it so this is just a side note

in terms of meat consumption

carnivores often say

we have no choice

it's just a murderous ideology

you know we have no choice but to consume dead animal carcasses

you know we've got no choice but to colonize

and murder several Palestinian peoples

men women and children

it's a very Psychopathic logic of we must murder

and

and this is why

when Israelis classify what happened in 1967

as 'The Six Day War'

this is a myth

it wasn't a war of no choice

it was an excuse

to colonize the rest of Falasteen

[excerpt from Edward Said]

"Israel was constructed on the ruins of another society

and by the mass dispossession of another people

who are remain unacknowledged

as just sort of obscure natives in the background

'back to the desert let them let them go to one of the other Arab countries'

that's been the position

are we bear no

the Oslo Accords say specifically

that Israel bears no responsibility for the costs of the occupation

this after 20 years 26 years of military occupation

no responsibility

as an Israel journalist said

he said we took over the country in 1948 from the British

the British left us:

the port of Haifa

a road system

an electrical system

a large number of municipal buildings

and lots of prisons

and we could could build Israel

without that there would be no state today

if

we

had taken

Palestine

in 1948 the way we left Gaza for the Palestinians

there would be no Israel

we destroyed the economy

we deported most of the capable people

we forced the people to live in HS and refugee camps over a period

I mean if anybody's been to Gaza

it's one of the most criminal places on Earth

because of Israeli policy of occupation

and they bear no responsibility for it

I mean that's simply unacceptable

even

for the Jewish people who have suffered so much

it's unacceptable

you cannot continue to victimize somebody else just because you yourself were a victim once

there has to be a limit"

Ryan: Rashid Khalidi in his book The Hundred Years War on Palestine

this is on .. let me just try and find the page number specifically

this is on page 174 of that book

he says:

that the Israelis strongly believed that in 1948

they missed its opportunity

to create more defensible borders

at the same time

they were romantic nationalists

who regarded the West Bank

as the heart of what they called

ancient Israel

Without control over the West Bank,

the Zionist dream would remain incomplete.

And this is of course echoed in a book written by Ilan Pappé

called Ten Myths About Israel

and there's a whole chapter about the Naksa

Ilan Pappé actually says that

after the 1960s

the

Zionist movement and the Israelis

carefully planned how to create what they called

Greater Israel

that they would include the West Bank

and also um the excuse of no choice of murdering Palestinians

we see this happening right now in terms of

the genocide in Gaza

because already there is a settler movement

ready to move in to Gaza

so

for 75 76 years now

the murderous Zionist movement

has played the same old tune

and has gotten away with ongoing murder

Dalal: I think it's also

the fact that when you look at the Nakba

and then the Naksa

and how hundreds of thousands of Palestinians were

and still are

being displaced and ethnically cleansed from Palestine

in different places

in different shapes and forms of

of that ethnic cleansing or displacement

it really speaks volume of how

um

when Israel frames itself as

'we are defending ourselves'

and we are

being victorious in 1967 war

when the

the impact of this 'victory' resulted in

the genocide

and still continues that is still continuing in Gaza and

and the diaspora Palestinians

and the loss

the continuous loss of the land

the confiscation

the demolitions

the arrests

the administrative detention

just all these shapes and forms of dehumanization of Palestinians ....

I don't know where this is going

I can't really find any reason why

someone will call themselves 'victorious'

and

obviously the 67 war was the military victory for Israel

whereas um

and it was justified because 'they had to'

they had 'no other choice'

but really at the expense of Palestinian lives

at the expense of the confiscation and the loss of the land

and

the deprivation of Palestinians from the basic human right

of simply living in liberty and in peace

in Palestine

the 67 war

it's also one of the myths

it didn't resolve anything for Palestinians

It even caused more

um

loss, losses, not just the loss of land,

but even losses of lives

and of families being scattered

families losing connections with their

uh family members

and the International Community

what what were they doing at the time?

I mean when we look at the history it's just the continuation of oh okay more

treaties signed

or more um

I mean we I mean that would be something we talk about another time

the Oslo Accords

and the other Accords that were signed

or even signing more resolutions

by the United Nations

for

the end of the suffering

or providing solutions for the Palestinian 'issue'

and calling for ceasefires

but then that never actually resolved anything

When we look at the Naksa and

trying to understand how it really impacted our lives

it really revolutionized

activists and it even opened eyes to the situation

that's happening in Palestine is continuing

and the Nakba was just one step

and in this podcast

we are commemorating another Palestinian icon named Edward Said

we're not just commemorating the Naksa

and the aftermath of the Naksa

but also looking back at the history

a prominent figure from Palestine is Edward Said

and looking throughout the history of his life

how his family escaped the Zionist militia from East Jerusalem

and he went on to work on his academic life

in [what's] now [called] the United States

Ryan: what's interesting when you look at how Professor Said

responded to the Naksa

is how a lot of the younger generation of Palestinians

and our non-Palestinian allies

how they're responding to what's happening in Gaza right now

so

after October 2023

a lot of younger people

a lot of people with a conscience

a lot of people who know that genocide is wrong

changed.

You could make the argument that

a lot of people after seeing the horror we're witnessing right now in Gaza

a lot of people are not the same

in terms of their career trajectories

in terms of what they want out of life

in terms of what they want to study

in terms of where they want to work

no one wants to be complicit in genocide

what we see when we look at [Edward] Said's response to the Naksa

is that it had a very parallel

it had a very similar impact on him

where he felt more Arab, if that makes sense

he felt he was a Palestinian

and you could even argue that it even shaped his academic career

it's what encouraged him to research and write

the landmark text: Orientalism

which was an amazing discourse

that enabled us to see

how racist the West is

and how the West creates these narratives about the Arab world and non-western peoples

to legitimize genocide and colonization

Dalal: look at the story and the history and the life of Edward Said and how

the historical events of the Naksa and the aftermath of the Naksa

revolutionized him

and how today

how the events of October the 7th in 2023

revolutionized a lot of people and actually liberated them

because I've been seeing it and hearing it across social media platforms how

'Gaza Harraratna'

'Gaza liberated us'

and what's happening in Palestine is liberating people

and here Liberation is not the actual meaning of someone being imprisoned and liberated

but it's ...

pretty much how the mindset

how the thoughts and feelings of people

if they didn't think anything before about Palestine

or had one side to justify things and rely on

they actually started seeing with clearer eyes

what was actually happening in Gaza

and just to reiterate how the events of October the 7th

did not really start the Palestinian quote unquote 'issue'

or the war against Palestine

It runs down the history to 1948 and even before

so just keep that in mind when you really think of Palestine and what's been happening around in the country

but it's been very inspiring if I should say the least

how people have been becoming more and more aware

of what's happening in Palestine and how Palestinians have been living all throughout the years

and what's been causing all the the suffering and the harm against Palestinians

and we have been seeing how people started becoming more educated

Reading the works of Palestinian prominent figures namely Edward Said

Reading the literature of and the poetry of Mahmoud Darwish

Reading the works of Rashid Khalidi

and even other historians like IIan Pappé

and other names

we're not just mentioning people specifically here but as a way of

to name some examples for reference

but that has been very liberating

Don't you think so Ryan?

Ryan: at the time when the Naksa occurred

he [Edward Said] had that knowledge and background in terms of

contextualizing the Naksa as being an extension of the Nakba

and seeing the reporting and the disjuncture between

his own experiences

and how the Western media were supporting the colonization of his people

that's something that did not sit well with him and that woke him up in his own way

he was a changed man

as you were talking I was comparing [Edward] Said's awakening in 1967

to a lot of the awakenings that we're witnessing as Palestinians by non-Palestinian allies

and even Palestinians within the diaspora themselves

I even had a cousin of mine

who got in contact with me

who lives in Turtle Island

and she asked about you know that time we caught up in Falasteen

and I said to her:

Do you remember why it took us a lot longer

to travel from Ramallah to Nablus?

Do you remember why we had to go through all these checkpoints?

you know she was quite young at the time

but I had to remind her

Do you remember why?

It's because of the system of colonial apartheid that's imposed

so [Edward] Said was able to see the Naksa unfold

It revolutionized him

he had that context as a person who survived the Nakba

he had inherited a lot of the Nakba trauma

and for a lot of people now witnessing the genocide in Gaza

well they are witnessing it because

they're viewing it on social media

so [Edward] Said himself

sees the mainstream reporting of the Naksa as it unfolded

within the American

and a lot of people within Western countries

are witnessing the horrible  mainstream reporting about the genocide in Gaza

and they're noticing that there's this disconnect between

what they're witnessing on their social media screens

and what's reported in the news and by politicians

and that's what's revolutionizing them

in a very very similar way

that [Edward] Said was revolutionized as he witnessed the Naksa

Dalal: I think I think we can listen to Edward Said

and his words on how the Naksa revolutionized him

hopefully that would inspire more people to

start seeing things differently

of what's happening in Gaza and

maybe find

their own path to advocate for Palestine and

hopefully

call for a ceasefire and end this suffering and

ethnic cleansing of Palestinians

[excerpt from Edward Said]
I think the really dramatic change

which I again read about was

I think' 67 uh the war of ' 67

where the entire map of the Arab world changed

and for the first time

Israel which had been confined largely to the small boundaries of the state

um had sort of overflowed into Jordan taking the West Bank and Gaza

taking the Sinai and the Golan Heights

and reading about this in America watching on the television

almost entirely from the viewpoint of a horrified and shamed victim

because then it was perfectly clear that I was an Arab

I mean I couldn't go on simply being an undergraduate

with this strange to my American friends and colleagues

you know the strange caché of being somehow from the Arab world

...maybe from Egypt...

uh that the whole idea of being an Arab

and then beginning to discover that that meant being a Palestinian

that all really came to the fall in 1967

I mean that was I would say the 'Great Explosion'

and it had a tremendous effect on

on my sort of psychological and even intellectual processes

because I discovered then that I had to rethink my life and my identity

even though it had been so sort of sheltered and built up in this completely artificial way

I had to rethink it from from the start

and that was a process that really is continuing I mean it hasn't ended for me

[music out]
Ryan: sometimes I just want to scream

because

how many times do we have to experience

atrocities

genocide

massacres

like how many times does this have to occur to us

I just ..

if I saw anyone going through this

year after year after year

I wouldn't be able to get on with my day

and I

yeah and I think

in terms of researching the Naksa

it's a realization

a horrible realization as a Palestinian

that the world doesn't care about us

that

our bodies our massacred bodies

dead Palestinian babies

dead beheaded Palestinian babies mean nothing to the world

and

it's a horribly daunting realization

like I know that this is the message that the world sends us

and that's why the Nakba, the Naksa,

the current genocide in Gaza

which is a total Dabha

"a butchering"

that's why it's almost like

there's this unwritten rule

that gives colonizers permission

to continue annihilating butchering and genociding an indigenous population

and I think that's why this topic was so hard to read about

because

the way the world reacts

is consistent

it's consistently racist

the world gives Palestinians the message

that we don't matter

that our bodies don't matter

that our lives don't matter

that we are not allowed to exist

and that's something that a lot of us

that's something that all of us

we will never accept

Dalal: yeah I mean it's taken what ...

why can't the world just simply

call and enact a ceasefire?

What's taking so long?

I mean how many lives do we have to lose how many

how many Palestinians do we have to lose before

people actually

realize that oh a genocide is happening in Gaza

what is the waiting for?

I don't understand it

what is the world expecting to see and hear more about

coming from Gaza

about the genocide

for them to

simply call for a ceasefire

it's all that could

I don't know

I think Edward Said really said some important words on his revolutionization

I think we should just call this episode

'The Great Explosion'

was that correct?

how he said it?

Ryan: I think it was 'The Great Explosion'

I think yeah that's where he was describing his awakening

be woke everyone

I mean you know it's everyone

lots of people dismiss this idea who are usually conservatives and racists and bigots

they usually dismiss the idea of being woke

veganism is sometimes dismissed as 'being woke'

it's like:

wake up!

but we just wish that it didn't take a genocide to wake you all up to our struggle

but if you're here,

and you're supporting us, welcome

"Ahla wa Sahla"
but

it's what happened to him

1967 changed Professor Said

in ways where I liked how he said he realized he was an Arab and a Palestinian

because

when the West

when Western leaders

when Western narratives

describe the genocide of your people as

'a war of no choice'

or as something that has to happen

in order to so-called achieve 'peace'

what they're saying about you is that you're worthless

that you're expungeable

that

a dead Palestinian body means nothing

and [Edward] Said read that message that was the memo delivered to him from the West

through its horrible political rhetoric about Palestinians

through its support of a fellow settler colonial society in the Middle East called Israel

and [Edward] Said wasn't willing to accept that, and good on him

and we shouldn't accept that either so

you know what I think was happening with [Edward] Said?

I think that he looked at the Western media reporting

and he could see that they were gaslighting their audiences

they were framing a colonial project as being a legitimate 'war'

and [Edward] Said wasn't having a bar of it

and with this next generation

the reason why they want to ban TikTok

and some

and the reason why Meta is so so anti- Palestinian

in terms of its skewed racism

is because the next generation

they're armed with pronouns and Palestine

it also means that they are not willing to be gas lit

they are not going to have a bar of it

when they see a dead Palestinian baby on their social media screens

and then they see

on their news screens that

a Zionist Karen was walking across a University campus

and she felt unsafe because

there was a slogan 'From The River To The Sea'

like they're comparing these two experiences

they see a dead Palestinian baby

and they see a white lady

in a western country

who's crying victim

interestingly though Dalal

Edward Said himself

actually predicted that

the internet, that social media

would revolutionize the way people related

and knew about Palestine

and this was something I came across in terms of researching Edward Said himself, and the Naksa

Dalal: okay so why don't we listen to Najla's recollection of her father, Edward Said,

and how he would respond to student encampments today:

[excerpt from Najla Said]

I got a call from a friend of mine who was traveling with Motaz Azaiza, the journalist from Gaza

and she asked me if I'd like to come with him

I think yesterday they were doing a teach-in at the protest, on Edward Said, my father

so I said absolutely and we went over there pretty quickly

and we were only there for about 15 minutes

but it was incredible

a lot of them were holding my father's book: The Question of Palestine

with like their finger in it and their pages folded over

they're incredibly strong

they're very young

they're simply

um just sort of

encamped there living peacefully

and it's entirely quiet.

Before my father passed away he had said that:

the internet was going to make the biggest difference

in this struggle

with social media and the internet we've learned that people can see for themselves

they can seek out others things they can ask more questions

so he would be very happy about that

he would be incredibly proud of these students

and I want to just emphasize

that

they're taking their education and using it

this is what they're learning

this is how my father's work and other people's work has changed how we read history

so he would be incredibly proud of that

I think that

he would have

probably approached president Shafik personally

and tried to speak with her

and tried to help this situation

not turn into what it has

which is also

sort of heartbreaking because

it really makes me wish he were here

To me the first of all the idea of calling in the National Guard on these students is

absolutely absurd

they're very compliant

they're they're not um

they're not in any way combative

so I find this all very

over over you know overblown

the media report that I've seen here in the west are not at all

indicative of the actual situation

I think there are a lot of infiltrators

some have been proven to have been infiltrating you know wearing Hamas headbands and trying to start trouble

they have every right to protest

this is the first amendment

it's the most sort of heralded part of our American you know culture

so I think first of all

they have not been treated as a normal citizen of the United States should be

the fact that they were immediately arrested

some of them were suspended

and they had their belongings removed

They're children

they're like 18 19 20 years old

many of these students are Jewish

and it is insulting to them

and the memory of their families who may have

you know been victims of the Holocaust

to say that they are anti-semites

I am hoping that eventually the situation will calm down

but I'm

I'm a bit concerned about the media

and certain organizations sort of

stoking the Flames of

of this

this situation

I am deeply disappointed in the leadership of Columbia as I think many people are

people often talk and Joe Biden himself talks a lot about how empathetic he is

and I can't tell you how hurtful it is that his empathy seems to only apply to everyone who isn't Palestinian

it's egregious

it's it's blatant

and it's hurtful

I don't think I could ever ever forgive them

Joe Biden and his administration for their behavior

not to mention the constant lying to our faces

[end of excerpt]
Dalal: but I think

I think just putting it in the bigger picture of why vegans should really think

should it matter why should it matter for vegans

not necessarily Arabs or Palestinians

but

worldwide why should vegans care about the Naksa

care about Palestine

and Gaza

it's simply because

well there are different reasons

but we can maybe start with the last point that you were addressing

it's really the awareness and education

being knowledgeable about about what's really happening in Gaza

and understanding the history of the Nakba and the Naksa

and later on the the Intifadas

and all that Palestinians have been experiencing

it makes a lot of sense when you understand that history

and how it can easily revolutionize you

just like it did to other people as well

and how that awareness and education can simply be a mean to

bring more contribution to

at least having discussions and taking actions

for social justice issues

this education and this awareness really contribute to having conversations

and the same way we raise awareness about animal rights and environmental issues

we also raise awareness and allow room for discussions and invite conversation

and on that note as well

when you look at the Palestinian Naksa from a vegan lens

you also

hopefully that really helps you understand the intersectionality of social justice issues

Again, when you are advocating for animal rights

you are also being part of a broader commitment to social justice

because

understanding the Naksa and its impact on Palestinians can be part of a holistic approach

to advocate for justice and human rights for all beings

humans and non-humans alike

when you're advocating, again, for animal rights and for environmental issues

you're also

you're also advocating for Palestinian rights

and the support of the rights of the oppressed human communities

and it's also worth noting that

yes the genocide is happening now in Gaza but also

there are other countries living the same

living similar experiences of genocide as well

in Sudan in Congo

to say the least

and it's really important that people become educated

and vegans, it matter your voices matter

the actions you take

the, the

the content you share on your social media platforms

it really it really can help

and bring in that awareness to other people

who simply

fail to understand and see things the way you see them

Ryan: what I really really appreciated about

a prominent vegan blogger by the name of Joey Carbstrong

a while ago Joey Carbstrong posted his position on the current genocide in Gaza

and he wrote that

I'll just read it

I'll just read what he wrote:

"I want to state this publicly for the record:

I'm absolutely convinced

that what is happening

in Gaza

is in fact a genocide.

The conviction

is not only based on the horrors happening on the ground

including the relentless bombing of civilian areas, schools, mosques, churches, hospitals, and refugee camps

but also

on the complete siege of humanitarian aid, medicine, food, and water"

and Joey Carbstrong continues:

"I am an animal activist

because I believe in justice, equality, and the rights of all sentient beings

that principle of course extends to human beings

no matter their race or ethnicity.

Apartheid, racism, oppression, and genocide

are the antithesis of the principles that uphold my vegan values.

The supremacist Israeli government

is treating a besieged helpless people

in many ways

like animals

which is horrific

considering the ways animals

are currently unjust

unjustly treated.

As animal rights activists

we should oppose injustice wherever we see it."

It's almost as though

Joey himself is quite frustrated

with the accusations that vegans

have no place in terms of protesting against the genocide in Gaza

it's it's so and

it sort of gave me

after after I saw Joey's post it gave me hope

in terms of the vegan movement

in terms of

a realization that you cannot be dedicated to animal justice

if human justice is compromised or ignored

Dalal: and that's really the message

the podcast episode is just one

step towards

the awareness and the understanding and there are so many resources online

and offline

from the personal stories of Palestinians

from books from literature written on the Nakba, the Naksa, and all those

historical events that really

have led us to where we are today

and

again

this is just an invite

to study

and educate yourself

and ask all the questions

that can help anybody understand

how they can really take the initiative to

advocate for Palestine

and for the Palestinian ongoing genocide

and hopefully one day

we will live in a

free liberated Palestine

one day

[excerpt from Edward Said]

We were there

I mean you can't do more than that

but it it it's so indecent and humiliating

an exercise

to have to say that we do exist

and ... that is to say

there were villages

Palestinian villages

there were Palestinian cities

there were Palestinian

there was a Palestinian society

there were Palestinian people

before 1948

who were

Arab

and who formed a society

which abruptly and dramatically

in the middle part of 1948

was

shattered

dismantled

destroyed

by the zionists

[Music]