Vegans for Palestine Podcast - Episode 09 - Baladi Animal Rescue

Tune in and listen to Ahlam's amazing work as the co-founder of Baladi Animal Rescue and Vegan in Palestine. Ahlam explains her intersectional vegan philosophy that is anti-colonial and anticapitalist, and describes her amazing work on the ground in Palestine that has been instrumental in setting up a unique, Palestinian vegan community in the Homeland. Rayan and Ahlam discuss the need for intersectional veganism in ways that challenge the israeli colonial project's efforts to erase both human and non-human animals in Palestine. Also, Ahlam reflects on the terribly disappointing silences regarding the genocide among single issue vegans who are part of some global vegan communities, and discusses the need for global vegans to centre Palestinian vegan voices and support vegan initiatives in Palestine. 

Episode 09 (Baladi Animal Rescue) has edited captions & transcript for Deaf and Hard of Hearing people available here.

Follow Ahlam here

Follow Baladi Animal Rescue (here on instagram and here on facebook).

Follow Vegan in Palestine (here on instagram and follow here on facebook).

Read about Vegan in Palestine & Baladi Animal Rescue here (official website).

Donate and share Vegan in Gaza here.

Donate and share Rescuing and Caring for Animals in Palestine here.

The Palestinian Musicians in this episode include:
Rula Bassil (from Jerusalem & Akka, Palestine) - follow here & support her work here.
Bassam Beroumi (from Akka, Palestine)- follow on youtube here  and listen here.

Please follow, share and support the impressive work of Rula and Bassam.

The Vegans for Palestine Podcast Team would like to thank Ahlam for donating her time and joining us for this episode. We are amazed and proud of the work you do in Palestine!

Transcript

[♪♪Music by Rula Bassil♪♪]

DALAL: Hello! It’s Dalal and this is episode 9 of the Vegans for Palestine Podcast. In this episode, Rayan chats to Ahlam, who is one of the co-founders of Baladi animal rescue and other vegan-led projects in Palestine. In this episode, Ahlam explains her veganism as an anti-colonial and anti-capitalist standpoint that has ancestral ties to plant-based cuisine in Palestine communities. Rayan and Ahlam also discuss how global vegan communities have disappointed Palestinian vegans, and towards the end of their discussion, Ahlam outlines ways that intersectional vegans can support Palestinian vegans currently in Palestine. Enjoy it!
AHLAM: So, my name is Ahlam. I'm from Al Khalil (Hebron) in Palestine. I'm the co-founder of Vegan in Palestine and Baladi Palestine Animal Rescue Team. I’m also the founder of Zeda Kitchen which is a vegan the first vegan kitchen in Palestine or in the West Bank. I transitioned fully to veganism seven years ago.
RAYAN: Seven years? Wow! That is awesome! A lot of vegans who have transitioned from being non-vegan to vegan have a story in terms of what encouraged them to become vegan. What's yours?
AHLAM: So yes, as I said I transitioned fully to veganism seven years ago though my journey began long before as most vegans I guess growing up I rarely consumed meat or dairy except for جميد jameed, a traditional dried yogurt used in the Levantine cuisine and I remember that I had already cut out red meat 5 years prior to transitioning to veganism and there was there is a story behind this I usually get emotional telling that story but yeah the shift or my shift was rooted in a lifelong awareness of animal exploitation coming from a farming family that raised sheep and chicken I worked in a chicken farm after college for one year, and witnessed firsthand the brutality of this industry, I could observe for myself that animals are sentient beings and that commodifying them harms not just them but also the farmers who are trapped in a system designed for corporate profit. 
RAYAN: Did this awareness of the animal abuse industry shape the way you set up Baladi Animal Rescue?
AHLAM: Absolutely, I actually reached a point where I realized that treating the animals I raised to be killed later more humanely than most farmers does not absolve me of complicity in a system where industrial agriculture has come to dominate so setting up the like Baladi the Palestine animal rescue team and vegan in Palestine came at a later stage and after me going vegan but before that I was just trying to figure out how I can be of like use and maybe how can I make up for the years I've been part of the animal industry although it wasn't in in the shape of the current or the imposed animal agriculture it's just like an awakening process it was just an awakening process for me that led me to take like active steps afterwards first by starting to help street animals and then going vegan and then starting initiatives to be more active in animal in and just like in in obtaining or in maintaining justice to animals so it was just part of the journey. 
RAYAN: It's almost like this awakening this awareness had a profound impact upon you, whereby it not only shaped your dietary choices, and like many vegans who obviously become vegan later on in life, you looked back at your dietary choices before and felt disgusted sick had all sorts of genuine emotional responses, but it almost like shaped your motivation for setting up Baladi, but also your practice in terms of rescuing and saving everyday animals, because a lot of vegans what they do is they realize and then they move on and just focus on their diet, whereas you adopted a holistic approach which is really commendable.
AHLAM: Yeah, for me it's not just like about diet. It's way beyond that. It's a life philosophy veganism for me is also a rejection of colonialism and capitalism's grip on our food systems and this is actually something that I'm working on at the moment writing about this these oppressive forces indeed raised sustainable ancestral ways of living. Before colonialism, we had a total a totally different system in terms of the Palestinian diets centred on grains legumes seasonal produce grown locally it's totally different now colonialism imposed industrial animal industrial agriculture, prioritizing profit over people and planet pushing meat and dairy as symbols of progress and if you're rich if you're progress you eat more meat and dairy, while at the same time, severing communities from their land and traditions especially in the wake of 1948 and the establishing of the occupying state today, and we could see this in the Palestinian market and in the Palestinian local industries corporate giants exploit both the farmers and the animals and it's kind of like perpetuating cycles of environmental destruction and dependency and we could see this in every single like every single day in at every single level of how decolonizing our plates could help us reclaim our mostly plant-based earth centred diets so veganism to me that's why it's not only a diet and it's not just a activism it's a cultural preservation and from that when I was realizing how it's it is just like very connected to my philosophy in life veganism was just in line with all what I believe in so it's just like part of the way I think about life and about how to treat the environment and all beings within this environment.
RAYAN: Well said, Ahlam, well said! It's important to make those connections as you said between colonially imposed animal agricultural systems and the importance of challenging them and dismantling them and I can say that's part of your veganism, I think it shows how Palestinians do veganism very differently. When we approach veganism what we're doing is we're do we're upholding veganism in a way that is that challenges colonial systems am I right yeah absolutely and with the occupying state on a daily basis terrorizing every Palestinian currently in Palestine in different ways, I suppose the question is how does it impact your animal rescue work with so many checkpoints, so many apartheid walls, so many soldiers that are thirsty to beat both human and non-human animals across Palestine? 
AHLAM: I think it's a labour of resilience to begin with like beyond the typical challenges like funding for example we face systematic oppression checkpoints arbitrary road closures harassment from both authorities and communities hostile to animals beady emerged as the rescue arm of vegan and Palestine born from the belief that compassion for street animals is a gateway to veganism unlike what other people or other vegans could like me think street animals here endure unimaginable suffering due to several factors including the systematic oppression that everybody is imposing their kind of power on those who are weaker and we knew a vegan movement couldn't stay silent about this so we started with four puppies rescued at birth sheltering them in my hometown of Bani Na’im بني نعيم and in Al Khalil until harassment from neighbours forced us to relocate. Today, we run a dog sanctuary in the northern West Bank managed by dedicate a dedicated vet who provides land and care also we have a cat sanctuary in my home, so despite Israel's road closures especially after October 7th limiting access we currently house 15 cats,10 dogs and a foster cat surviving abuse. Baladi also supports independent rescuers by covering spay neuter surgeries and veterinary costs ensuring no animal is left behind even those animals that we cannot take in due to limited resources especially with the space and staff so we compensate for that by supporting other independent or individual rescuers with their veterinary costs and stuff. Baladi is just the rescue arm or the rescue project of Vegan in Palestine vegan in Palestine is the mother initiative.
RAYAN: So Baladi Animal Rescue is of course part of Vegan in Palestine, and Vegan in Palestine connects vegans currently within historical Palestine with others so it's almost quite instrumental in establishing a cohesive or a connected Palestinian vegan community, am I right?
AHLAM: Yes, so I’d just like to speak about veganism in Palestine and how vegan Palestine emerged from this scene, so as I said it's a growing awakening. Many Palestinians are confronting the cognitive dissonance of loving animals while consuming them so though we lack formal statistics on the number of those people, but before October 2023 our ‘vegan in Palestine’ initiative connected local vegans through events fostering a small but passionate community we had dinner events where we veganize a popular food in Palestine, and introduce the vegan version of it, so we have like this group of people gathering almost every month, given that the initiative vegan in Palestine was established in 2020 by a group of friends, and also other people, we connected, we talked about it, how we can proceed and how can we make the best of it. So we had this vegan in Palestine initiative established and then Baladi as the rescue project at the same time, and then we started with basically with the rescue effort then we moved to the vegan events by contacting restaurants and encouraged them to do vegan nights, where all their menu would be vegan, and then we started to do the same events, but we cook for those events by veganizing certain food like shawarma, alfredo, lasagna, Shish Barak, so it wasn't necessarily Palestinian cuisine but also popular food that you could see or you could find in every restaurant in in Palestine but as I said that was before October 2023, tragically Israel's ongoing genocide in Gaza and the suffocating restrictions in the West Bank have disrupted daily life, halting our gatherings, also the whole atmosphere wasn't helping to keep going with the same the same gatherings and events, so but that despite this we've adapted, and we shifted our priorities into other activities that we can speak later about. 
RAYAN: My inner فَلَّاح is so amazed at the fact that Palestinian vegans back home are getting together, organizing, connecting, talking about their ancestral diets, reconnecting with their ancestral practices of an overwhelmingly plant-based diet. My inner فجعان is so jealous that I'm not there to see the vegan dishes, I’m unbelievably amazed and proud but that's another story, but you did mention that since the beginning of the genocide in Gaza even though vegan in Palestine is currently located in the West Bank, the Israeli colonial project is on a daily basis, has sort of terrorized everyday Palestinian vegans, whether they want to catch up and socialize get to know each other, build a strong vegan community, whether they want to engage in important animal rescue work which is necessary, whether they want to engage in education campaigns whether it the restaurants across Palestine, I know we talk about advocating for a vegan diet, but I'm wondering whether in our case it is a process of reconnecting with our ancestors, advocating that other Palestinians see the connections between meat consumption as it has increased considerably in the Palestinian diet, whether at home and in the diaspora, which is very disappointing.
AHLAM: Yes. 
RAYAN: So the advocacy isn't just about going vegan it's there's an education component whereby we're educating people within the Palestinian community at home in this case, and it of course needs to happen abroad, but there's a process of educating them about the benefits of veganism, about the horrors of the animal agricultural industry, and all these amazing initiatives are impacted by a nasty, racist, selfish, despicable settler colonial project that is dedicated to the erasure of human and non-human animals across Palestine, that purports to be the most vegan army in the world which we've discussed in the previous episode which is just a load of… which is not true, which is indeed not true at all.
AHLAM: What you've just mentioned Rayan is very important, because so many people, whether here or abroad, they think that veganism is a western thing which is very frustrating. To begin with, veganism was part of our culture here, yes, people consumed basically dairy but it wasn't their main food, and me it was eaten occasionally. My mother tells me that when she was a kid, they barely ate meat and everything was what they call ‘veggies’, so it's just vegetables and legumes being sauteed together and to give them a meal for the day, and as I mentioned earlier, it's it was all grown locally and even when people raised animals, there was a special relationship between the human and non-human animals there was a kind of mutual respectful relationship where humans or human animals give care food and home to their non-human animals and in return they provide them I mean the non-human animals they provide their human companions with milk that is paired after their kids or offspring have their tummies full so it wasn't like this much of an exploitative relationship as we see it today and the agriculture industry that is the dominating the scene of how animals are being commodified as tools as machines rather than as sentient beings sharing the same environment and the same space, I don't know if this is if this is clear of how the relationship between human and non-human animals were shifted drastically in a way that it is actually mirroring the global system, now of treating animals as just like machines, as I said.
[Music♪♪] MAHMOUD DARWISH READING POETRY: ♪♪ If you are not the rain, my love, then be the tree. Sated in fertility, be the tree. And if you are not the tree, my love, then be the stone that is sated in humanity, be the stone. And if you are not stone, my love, be the moon in the dream of your beloved one, my love, be the moon. [♪♪Music]
AHLAM: As you said, Rayan, it's a process of retrieving our relationship with animals and retrieving our mostly plant-based and we have examples of people from like Arab people who were actually vegan or vegetarians so it's not a western thing, it's not a new thing, basically there are like whole communities who are maintaining vegan or vegetarian diets even like way back in the history so it's not something that is new or like that is emerged in the west I know that in western country there was a context where veganism became a thing and it was basically the environment, not the animals and I know that in many western countries their main concern as vegans is the environment, but when it comes to animals as sentient beings it was always here in the global south when people had this special relationship with their animals that was based on treating them as counterparts not as inferior beings or beings that are there to serve us only so it was just like mutual relationship when every party is actually providing something as any other relationship, so it's as you said it's just like a way to connect with our ancestors of maintaining their lives, but also with a vital consideration of the changes that happened, generation by generation ,which makes us think while retrieving a healthy relationship with animals totally not relying on anything that is coming from animals, because we have better choices now, and because we can actually spare animals from any kind of exploitation, because we know that there's no ethical choice if it's not available for everyone so even when we think when we say that some people say that we have backyards animals we have we are treating our animals humanely and so on we should actually always emphasize the fact that any option that is not available for everyone is not an ethical option and here comes just like sparing the idea that we should always emphasize that sparing animals from any kind of exploitation is actually the ultimate solution for all the suffering that we know now. I hope that this is clear or that I could actually demonstrate my idea on this, it's not something that that we are like in the global south that we are adopting something that came from the west, it's just something that is part of our culture and we should actually retrieve, it we should reclaim it in our life. 
RAYAN: So I say there's two things going on here for Palestinian vegans back home in Palestine. On the one hand, within Palestinian communities because of the impact of colonization which brought with it the violent animal abuse agriculture industry which gave people within our community the message that access to meat is necessary for health nutrition but also a sign of wealth and richness and something to be desired and so we didn't really have a word in for vegan for veganism which probably gives a lot of people in Palestine the impression that veganism is a western So it's almost like the work within the community isn't just about educating people about the atrocities of the animal abuse industry it's also about educating them that we should reconnect with our ancestors but with colonization comes of course capitalism and racism and the Israeli state has each and every one of those and so that's so there's things going on within the community but at the same time there's vegans from outside of the community or western vegans who of course are not valuing or supporting the initiatives back home or supporting the racist settler colonial project in oppressing all Palestinians so it alerts me to the privileges that a lot of Western vegans have so it's like there's this sort of unfair extra load that Palestinian vegans have to do back home?
AHLAM: Absolutely, it's like even within the intellectuals here the first thing that they would say about the vegan movement is that it's propaganda and sadly it comes from feminists and from human rights advocates and from leftist people but when you when you think about it like for me for example as a human rights advocate and feminist, I could never reconcile fighting for justice while ignoring the violence inflicted on non-human animals, like systems that normalize oppressing women, exploiting workers or occupying land are the same systems that reduce living beings to commodities. I don't know why this is so hard to fathom, for example feminism to me means dismantling all hierarchies of domination, whether over marginalized humans or non-humans who are used for food clothing or entertainment, so for me again, you cannot preach liberation while funding industries built on confinement, exploitation, and slaughter. So every day I learn more I know more and I realize more that true justice is indivisible, and I know like every day I know that killing animals corrodes our humanity, whether we acknowledge it or not so it's just a visceral understanding, coupled with childhood moments of instinctive empathy toward non-human animals that actually made veganism a moral imperative rather than just a choice, and this is the core of the mission I think that we as anti-speciesist should actually focus on while promoting veganism, and that's why I understand why promoting veganism now becomes I wouldn't say a problem but inconsistence so that's why it's just not about because when you say veganism people think that you are speaking about food, but it's not about food only, as I said it's like a whole system that you should think about and you should actually look into every single level of how this system is functioning and here comes the anti-speciesism, where we just like dismantle the whole hierarchal system that is treating non-human animals as inferior beings or as beings that are solely there to serve us or to be just like commodities for us so that is the core thing that we should look into and we should advocate for and that's why I was saying that we should retrieve that mutual respect relationship with them at first and then we should apply the changes within the nowadays world that should lead us to just like spare them entirely from exploitation because any kind of relationship that would actually rely on taking something from them would be a kind of exploitation if it's not available for everyone.
RAYAN: As you were talking about the intersections between animal rescue work veganism Palestinian veganism specifically, living within systems that oppress women, that are patriarchal; I get the impression that what you're alluding to and rightly so is that these systems of oppression and abuse are interconnected whether we look at say the patriarchy, capitalism, racism, colonization, animal abuse, other forms of oppression as well whether it be ethnocentrism, ableism; there's definitely an intersection there which leads me to also highlight that - similar to a lot of other Palestinians that I know - your veganism is intersectional?
AHLAM 100%, yes 
RAYAN: That's so important to acknowledge because I would probably argue that if someone's veganism isn't intersectional it's just white supremacy or it's white heteronormative male patriarchy, 
AHLAM: And we could see this for real in the current genocide and how different vegans worldwide was reacting to it some just like gave a blind eye to it some got involved into being true to their values and they expanded it to just reject all forms of oppression and while those who gave a blind eye to it were just like showing how hollow their values were when they just like ignore a whole genocide not only against humans but also against nonhumans in everybody is being ‘genocided’ so to say including animals, you could see that they never even talk about animals in Gaza, let alone they just like ignore the human suffering there also the environmental degradation, there even the like there is a whole ecocide is being also committed there but they seem not to care about it and it's very frustrating it's very devastating to witness to be honest.
RAYAN: When the genocide started, a lot of Palestinian vegans both in the diaspora and back home went through a horrible process whereby we looked to the international vegan communities and we saw so many that were silenced or that were complicit or that were incredibly racist, and we were asked to share our solidarity with them as vegans when in fact they were being silenced as our people are currently being massacred and murdered one by one, in ways that mirror what happens every day at a slaughter house, in ways that parallel that, and Palestinians everywhere home in the diaspora went through this horrible process, or perhaps a strengthening process, whereby we realized exactly who we wanted to interact with we realized exactly who we were going to share solidarity with so in the midst of watching some of the most horrific images of children being decimated, blown apart, some of the most distressing images that have kept us all awake for a couple of years, now that have traumatized us that have stayed with us in some of the most vile ways whilst the international community does nothing, whilst the genocide project cries Karen to the world that they are apparently the victims, whilst we're watching footage that shows us otherwise, but within international vegan communities it's fair to say that Palestinian vegans, more so in the homeland were let down, and sorry- that's an understatement though, isn't it? 
AHLAM: Yeah I totally agree actually it was one of the most depressive things that happened to me it wasn't actually the only thing that was heartbreaking and devastating to me it's also this international human rights and international law system or international justice system everything seemed to be hypocrite and racist, you could see that like this international justice system is being racist we could observe that it was obviously designed to protect the white people or the white countries, but when it comes to countries like Palestine or Sudan; nobody cared. The same with the vegan movement the mainstream vegan movement was an absolute disappointment to me, when actually we came to a moment when we just like don't speak about veganism, especially during the first months of genocide, it was just like an absolute despair when we were faced with the fact that mainstream justice system, mainstream vegan movement, just doesn't care about our suffering, about our people's suffering in Gaza, and when we just like try to retrieve our energy into channelling the true human rights values, the true us, the true vegan values and then pull ourselves, collect our pieces and stand up for our values, no matter how the world has failed us, how the movements that we thought we were part of failed us, and then that moment when I just like quit my work in the nonprofit sector because it is dominantly funded by western countries, western governments who are silent of course about our genocide and then I just like yeah, just quit everything and started to stick to my values in my own way and not being affected by the silence and complicity of these movements or of these of these institutions but it took me took me some while to realize that I need to stand up for my values despite what other people showed of complicity and of ignorance towards our suffering here.
RAYAN: It's almost like Western vegans, or let's call them non-intersectional vegans or white vegans, vegans who aren't part of the global majority; if they want solidarity with Palestinian vegans they need to recognize that our veganism is very different they need to see the connections between our anti-Zionism and our veganism because our anti-Zionism is anti-racism and anti-colonialism, and Zionism of course is proximity to whiteness so when we talk about white veganism and we talk about veganism within the settler colonial project that is Israel, we are of course alluding to white veganism and as you and I both know; it's not just white people who are complicit in white veganism, it's about attitude rather than skin colour, it's about a system of oppression that prioritizes whiteness or proximity to whiteness, so I wonder whether our message could be to vegan communities globally that if they want solidarity and if they want a vegan future across the globe, they need to recognize our stories and our suffering, and if we are going through a genocide right now, the bare minimum should be that they support our quest for liberation and freedom against this racist genocidal colonial project.
AHLAM: Well said, well said! 
RAYAN: Like you in different ways I experienced so much disappointment and depression because I was let down by global vegan communities and in some cases I was told that I needed to focus on diet and the animals mhm and it's so bizarre how global vegans expect Palestinian vegans to stand shoulder-to-shoulder with Zionist vegans who are participating in the military basically bombing us and our siblings dispossessing us from our lands telling us that even though we have ancestral ties to Palestine even though they are from all over the world apparently our homeland is theirs like it's very colonial, nasty and racist but it's this condescending expectation that apparently we're supposed to put aside our differences and just focus on the animals whilst they annihilate us like it's just so unfathomable that that's the expectation and that if we are angry about it or distressed by it we need to focus on the animals it makes me wonder where the future generations future vegan generations are really going to look and I hope they acknowledge just how much of a despicable predicament it is.
AHLAM: And like let's face it focusing on animals as a single issue didn't work out so let's face this if you need to end the abuse and exploitation of animals it should go hand-in-hand with ending other systems of oppression we should work on ending all forms of oppression at once altogether I don't know why I don't see this as a fact that handling single issues like separately from other social justice issues doesn't work it didn't work out and it won't work out we should work on everything altogether at once in order to get actual results on the ground for all the marginalized for all the oppressed.
[♪♪Rula Bassil – Ode to my family – The Cranberries – COVER ♪♪] D'you notice?, D'you know?, Do you see me? Do you see me? Does anyone care?, Unhappiness, Where's when I was young, And we didn't give a damn, 'Cause we were raised, To see life as fun, And take it if we can, My mother, My mother she'd hold me, She'd hold me, When I was out there, My father, My father he liked me, Oh, he liked me, Does anyone care? [♪♪Music by Rula Bassil♪♪]
RAYAN: Ahlam, it's my understanding that you are involved in a project called Vegan for Gaza, and you are in touch with vegans currently surviving the genocide across the Gaza Strip can you tell me about your work there? 
AHLAM: Yes sure, so as I said, we had our gatherings as vegans halted since October 2023, so then in November 2023 we've started plant-based food parcels distribution in the West Bank where communities were severely impacted by the genocide and by the aggression in the West Bank as well we later expanded it to water distribution winter clothes distribution and now we are rehabilitating water networks destroyed by Israel's war machine in so even in crisis our commitment to compassion persists but we should actually we thought that we should accommodate according to what is going on, I must say that yes we have vegan connections in in Gaza but most of our volunteers are not vegan, they're just dedicated youth dedicated, young people who want to be involved in serving their communities in the best way possible although we also just like keep emphasizing the vegan values of the initiative there so we do we do emphasize the vital aspect of having the food parcels of be of being 100% plant-based, and we say that it's not because we are imposing a diet on people especially people who are who are suffering a genocide it's that this is actually the most sustainable option for people to have actually plant-based food parcels rather than non-vegan food, because it's more sustainable it's more actually like serving them for like long periods and it doesn't go bad given that power is cut off for a year and a half now and most of them are actually surviving without fridges or something. Also for me, I would always love to feed people the food that I consume especially that in the West Bank, we don't actually have like these vegan options in the supermarkets you don't you don't find like vegan cheese or vegan meat in the supermarket so our food here is basically whole food that we 100% make at home, so it's not that I'm enjoying vegan alternatives here while imposing just like basic plant food on people in Gaza, so it was this idea that needed to be delivered to our volunteers there they were very into the idea, and they actually were confirming the fact that plant-based food is the best, and more efficient food to be delivered and or to be provided to people there, so yeah given the fact that as I said people are with no power no gas for cooking nothing so plant-based food was the best option to be provided to people there and we could see like most cooking projects in Gaza actually mostly relying on providing plant-based food to people there so like yeah in crisis plant-based food is the best thing to be to be given to people in crisis. We've distributed plant-based food parcels, as I said we have water distribution and now we are rehabilitating water networks we haven't announced it yet on our social media, but we have the first water rehabilitation network completely like successful so we are announcing it like today or tomorrow maybe on our social media, and we are planning to expand on that because it's a necessity now especially for the people who are returned to their homes or to their areas in the north of Gaza found everything destroyed, including the water infrastructure not only their homes but the water infrastructure, the electricity infrastructure and how we could help with helping people's resilience there, while they are waiting for the real reconstruction to be started, inshallah. 
RAYAN: Inshallah. In our discussion we've talked about how global vegan communities have let us down have disappointed us but there have also been vegans who have reached out to support us as well and I suppose the question is with all the amazing work that you do what can those of us outside of Palestine, right now whether we're part of the global vegan communities or whether we are diaspora Palestinians, what do you think those of us can do to support and empower Baladi animal rescue and vegan initiatives, like what's some of the things that we can do to support you and others on the ground doing amazing work back home?
AHLAM: Well, solidarity is transformative like amplify our stories share Baladi's work share Raz's plight on social media share vegan for also on social media donate maybe to sustain our food water distribution and sanctuary operations and also like the veterinary care that we provide also could like partner with us nonracist intersectional international organizations can help lobby for Palestinian rights while advocating for animals at the same time educate others about the intersection of occupation and animal exploitation Israel's violence against humans and nature is definitely intertwined and most importantly recognize that veganism transcends borders hopefully like all vegans realize this also supporting our struggle here fortifies the global fight for liberation I mean liberation for all beings not only animals not only humans.
RAYAN: Ahlam, I’ve learned so much from our conversation, I've gotten so much and I really appreciate your time and I really feel as though we've just begun our conversation. I might need to ask you back to co-host again in the future, if that's okay. Thank you so much for sharing your expertise, thank you so much for sharing your experiences, your insight, I acknowledge that a lot of our discussions were quite depressing, and quite triggering, but nonetheless you shared openly, honestly, and strongly, and I just want you to know I appreciate that, thank you!
AHLAM: Thank you very much Rayan. Thank you for hosting me!
RAYAN: You must come back! (laughs) 
AHLAM: (laughs) Inshallah!

[♪♪Music – Bassam Beroumi – Mnistanna ♪♪]