Vegans for Palestine Podcast - Episode 11 - When vegan comrades unite for Palestine

In the shadow of the horrific genocide that is taking place across the Gaza Strip, several vegans around the world have connected to fundraise for vegans in Gaza and animal rescue organisations in Palestine. Victoria and Rayan reflect on their activism and connections within Vegans for Palestine, and discuss how comradeship, education and resistance are part of intersectional pro-Palestinian veganism. 

Episode 11 - 'When vegan comrades unite for Palestine' has captions adjusted & edited for Deaf and Hard of Hearing viewers. Find here. 

Follow Victoria here. 

Follow Vegans for Palestine here.

Some Vegans in Gaza that you can support:

Mohammed Wishah  - Support here. 

Esraa - Support here. 

Amar - Support here. 

Mohammed Alkolak - Support here.

Ahmed - Support here.

Sulala Animal Rescue in Gaza - Support here.

Vegan in Gaza (Vegan food packages for Gaza families) - Support here.

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Want to read more about collective liberation? Check out the following:

Social Change Eco-System map.
No movement exists in Isolation.
On Resistance.

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The Palestinian musicians featured in this episode include:

Hosam Hassona (from Gaza, Palestine) - Follow here. 

Basel Nasralla (from Gaza, Palestine) - Follow here. 

Bashar Murad (from Jerusalem, Palestine) - Follow here and here on youtube 

Lina Makoul (from Akka, Palestine) - Follow here and here on youtube 

Interview with Lina Makoul. 

Please follow, share and support their work. 

The Vegans for Palestine Podcast team would like to thank Victoria for a great discussion! Thank you for your solidarity! We are honoured that you have joined us for this special episode and cannot wait for you to join us in a free Palestine! 

Transcript

Episode 11 transcript.

[Music: Basel Nasralla singing & Hosam Hassona on guitar]: ♪♪Gaza hasn’t slept for years, every corner has a longing, a child’s laughter amidst the rubble♪♪, it tells the story of a sad people. ♪♪You live and we die. ♪♪Under the bombs, we have no voice. ♪♪ ♪♪However, Gaza remains steadfast, ♪♪despite the wounds, roses grow. ♪♪Gaza hasn’t eaten in months. ♪♪You are silent, you have no voice. ♪♪But Gaza will remain steadfast, despite the wounds, roses grow. ♪♪

DALAL: Hello everyone, it’s Dalal and this is episode 11 of the Vegans for Palestine podcast. What happens when vegans around the world unite for Palestine? In this episode, Victoria joins Rayan for an interesting discussion about the connections that vegans have made in recent years. The two discuss how vegans of different faiths from different parts of the world have united and found solidarity with each other whilst fundraising and connecting with vegans in Palestine. Victoria shares her interest in reflections and discusses with Rayan how vegan spaces for Palestine are about learning, education, comradeship and solidarity. Enjoy this one! 

VICTORIA: My name is Victoria I use she/her/hers pronouns. I’m an anti-Zionist Jew, a vegan and queer person currently residing on the lands of Peoria, Mississauga, Bodwéwadmi (Potawatomi), Anishinabewaki ᐊᓂᔑᓈᐯᐗᑭ, and Wyandot Peoples on Turtle Island, and I'm sorry if I mispronounced those names. I went vegan in 2011 and it was the best decision I ever made. I’m a photographer and a healthcare professional and I recognize my white privilege and I am learning and unlearning in order to be a better advocate and ally for all sentient beings. As a health care professional I feel it is imperative for healthcare workers to advocate for medical rights in Gaza, at the very least. I believe Zionism contradicts the values of Judaism and by conflating the two it is detrimental to the religion. I’m educating myself on Palestine, Sudan, Congo and all other indigenous people and people of colour in order to be a better advocate for all. When I was a child my mom said that I would spit out meat and would only want to eat mac and cheese, French fries and broccoli. So I was naturally a vegetarian throughout my whole life and um I would force myself sometimes to eat meat and be non-vegetarian, non-vegan. Then I went on this road trip for college it was a university road trip where we learned about indigenous people of Turtle Island, geology, the way food is produced in factory farms and agriculture in general, and it was in 2011 and that's when I decided to switch to veganism because I understood how vegetarianism wasn't enough for the animals. How also it affects humans and the environment. It was a great switch it was first for my health I felt that it was like a health choice. And then I moved to New York and got involved in activism. That's when it transformed me when I realized all the interconnectedness of injustices around the world especially on Turtle Island. So yeah. 

RAYAN: So you mentioned before that you see Zionism as being antithetical to Judaism. Can you explain that a bit more? 

VICTORIA: Yeah, so Judaism according to the Torah forbids Jews to have our own sovereignty and it forbids to kill or to steal. Zionism is a genocidal and nationalistic political ideology which was created by non-religious people. There are Palestinian Jews, Palestinian Christians, and Palestinian Muslims, all of whom are Semites, and standing in opposition to the state of so-called “IsraHell” is standing with true Jewish values and calling that anti-Semitic is inaccurate. 

RAYAN: Can I just ask as well as an anti-Zionist Jew when did you first realize about the horrors happening in Palestine? What was your awakening moment if I can call it that? 

VICTORIA: Yeah, oh let's see so I was pretty ignorant to what was going on in occupied Palestine before October 7th. And then when I learned about October 7th and what occurred that day, I first was both siding it right I was like "Okay well I understand both sides." And I remember posting something on my Instagram story and one of my Palestinian friends who I went to college with responded to me and said, "You know, resisting occupation is inherent, you should be resisting occupation." And so it really sparked my passion in understanding the situation and understanding that it's not a conflict. It is an occupation. And also recognizing as an anti-Zionist Jew it is my duty to say never again. Never again for any person, any being, any sentient being because I see myself in everyone else. And I don't need to see myself in everyone else in order to believe that or to advocate for that, but I see myself in other people so it's important for me to advocate for others. I care about Palestine because the occupation has been unjustly murdering Palestinians for 77 years and also because bombing is destroying the Earth as well as historical landmarks like churches, mosques, archives etc. I care about Palestine because my tax dollars are funding free health care and education for people who identify as “IsraHelli” instead of my taxes going back into our infrastructure, healthcare, schools etc. I care about Palestine because I see myself and every human and non-human animal suffering during this never ending Nakba. 

RAYAN: it is indeed what seems like a never-ending Nakba. I can see that after October 7th you saw things very differently in terms of what was happening in Palestine. Did you grow up in Jewish communities that were aligned with Zionism or did you grow up in communities that were freethinking liberated from Zionism? Can you tell me a bit about that? 

VICTORIA: yeah so I guess I'm kind of a um non-conventional type of person in terms of religion. My mom raised me to be a freethinker. She is Jewish and was interested in other religions. So she's ancestrally Jewish but she was Christian in some parts of my life, she was Catholic in some parts of my life, she was Hindu in some parts of my life as well as Muslim in some parts of my life. So I learned a lot about how religion is beautiful in many ways and also destructive in a lot of ways. And so I don't feel like I am connected to any one religion but I know that my ancestry is connected to being Ashkenazi Jew. So I never really learned about Zionism until October 7th either. My grandfather was Jewish, he's rest in peace. And he didn't pass on his heritage or his religion to us or to my mom and her family. So I didn't get to learn that from him or anyone in my family unfortunately. I wish I did. And I never really felt connected to Judaism or Christianity or any type of religion, but I do feel a massive respect for all of the religions and a desire to learn about all of them as well as like languages and stuff which I know we connect on. So yeah, in short no I wasn't raised in a Zionist home. I wasn't really raised in an anti-Zionist home. But my mom did have a boyfriend who is Palestinian and I vaguely remember during my teenage angst years my mom and him discussing that situation and for me, I was so young I didn't understand or care to understand what my mom was talking about because I was going through my teenage angst. But I do remember her always teaching me how to care about any person, any being no matter their race, religion, sexual identity, what have you. So I think in a way she did kind of raise me anti-Zionist. At least now nowadays her and I discuss it a lot because it's something she does believe in, anti-Zionism. She believes that Palestine should be free as well. And so it's actually been able to connect me to her and help us bond a lot more. 

RAYAN: I can see especially in the shadow of the genocide a lot of anti-Zionist Jews have found community with one another. Can I just share a quick observation with regards to a lot of anti-Zionist Jews? So the vast majority that I've come across they've gone through a process of transitioning from Zionism to anti-Zionism because of how normalized Zionism is. Much the same way racism and whiteness and ableism and other discriminations are normalized in societies that all coincidentally - I'm saying that sarcastically - coincidentally complement capitalism. It's almost like the majority of anti-Zionist Jews have to go through a process of unlearning or decolonizing what they were taught. 

VICTORIA: Right. 

RAYAN: And whilst they're decolonizing there's a process of receiving vilification from people that you supposedly share values with share a community with, and so whilst anti-Zionist Jews are going through a process of reckoning with the horrors that is Zionism, the impact that Zionism has in terms of erasing the Palestinian people it's almost like it's a strengthening an awakening process but also there's a vilification process that happens within community which is so horrible. 

VICTORIA: I've lost quite a few well not quite a few but a couple Zionist friends and one that was really hard to lose um who is a vegan and yeah, it's definitely nothing in comparison to what Palestinians are enduring in Gaza and what Palestinians have endured for many many years. But it is unfortunate. But then again the whole point of this episode is finding community and I feel so lucky despite the circumstances to have found community because before this I didn't realize how lonely I was. Because I wasn't really connecting with like-minded people. I wasn't connecting with anti-Zionist vegans who believe in collective liberation. And so it's a blessing in disguise and it's unfortunate that it had to happen this way um but it is it is a little silver lining. 

RAYAN: In the shadow of the genocide a lot of us have virtually - and I use that word intentionally - virtually we’ve found community. So whilst this has been deemed to be the first genocide in history that is livestreamed on social media whereby if it was not live streamed we know that every single Zionist through their Hasbara talking points will be denying it vehemently whereas for us we're witnessing it live streamed and because of these virtual connections we've also made contact with each other to establish a virtual community. I know you have, I have as you know. I think that's something we can talk about in terms of the bonds that have been made with vegan comrades. 

VICTORIA: Yeah so I remember after I started doing all that research on occupied Palestine I questioned where the vegan community was in this injustice. And I thought hmmm that's strange. Why aren't vegans totally outraged about this? Like this is an obvious occupation, injustice for people, for non-human animals, for the environment. How could we not be enraged? I mean the white phosphorus to name an example is not only horrible for humans, it's horrible for non-human animals, it's horrible for the environment. And not only just in occupied Palestine is it horrible, it's horrible for the entire world because guess what we share the environment. The air, the land, the water is all connected. Anyway so I was pretty enraged with the silence in the plant-based community. I won't call it a vegan community because vegans should care about all sentient beings. So I was enraged, and I was investigating on social media where is my community. And I happened to find Vegans for Palestine and that's when it changed for me. I was like finally I found my people. I can learn from everybody here. I can, you know, be a better ally, be a better, be better in my advocacy for Palestine. And um I found the group chat. I joined the group chat and then I became an admin of the group chat and I gained all these responsibilities and um it was another great choice I made next to veganism was joining Vegans for Palestine because, I, like I said I was so lonely before. I didn't realize how lonely I was because most of the people in my reality are not vegan, are understanding of my views and ethics and passions and advocacies, but they aren't necessarily as passionate as I am or involved. And so it made me realize how important this community is to me albeit virtual because now I feel less lonely. I feel like I am making a slight difference in the world. I may not be changing the entire world. God forbid I can't. I’m just one person um but it it's a sense of belonging that I have, it's a sense of purpose and it's nice to have friends who I don't have to explain myself to. It's nice to have friends who just get it and I don't have to say "This is why I'm vegan, this is why I care about human rights, this is why I care about the environment, this is why I care about non-human animals” and um there's a lot less to explain so there's a lot less labour and it becomes a safe haven for me to just unmask in a way. Yeah so it's been really wonderful and I know that not every community is perfect and we're all learning so it's definitely been difficult at times but I think it's a wonderful community where we can all learn from each other where we can acknowledge our shortcomings, our mistakes and yet still uplift and centre collective liberation.

RAYAN (IN ARABIC): Indeed! (In ENGLISH) Well said! Sorry, I'm starting to talk to you now like in Arabic!

VICTORIA: Shukran (thank you!), I know some basics! 

RAYAN: Shukran, yeah yeah, wallah. I remember it was November 2023 that I came across other Palestinian vegans, and a special shout out to Dalal, Waseem, Dana, and Said, and I said those exact words to them! The first time I met them, I said to them, “I found my people” or “I found my community” or “I found people that I am in agreement with” which was just such a powerful moment, because being vegan can be a very lonely experience for us all, let alone being you know anti-Zionist vegan in so many movements that are unbearably silent on the genocide.

MICHAEL SCHIRTZER: I’m Jewish and I support Palestine [Applause]. I should’ve started with that! 

JANET: I'm Janet from Jews for Palestine (PERTH). 

MEGAN: My name is Megan. I’m a South African. I’m a Jew. I’m an anti-Zionist. I’m an anti-racist.

TIKTOKER#1: I'm Jewish and I never thought I'd feel the amount of disgust and rage I felt at my own community over the past year and a half but especially the last few months. The amount of pathetic, manipulative, self-victimization boggles my mind because how is it not enough for you? How is it not enough for you that millions of people have lost their homes, that hundreds of thousands of people have lost their lives?
TIKTOKER#2: I am from London, but my father was a Zionist, he was from Poland and he lost his family in the Holocaust but he brought me up as an anti-racist, so in 1973, I didn't know any better I went to “IsraHell”, I saw apartheid I saw the racism I saw what was terrible and I came back anti-racist anti-Zionist and from then I have fought for Palestine.

TIKTOKER#3:  I’m Jewish and I support Palestine, my great-grandfather was a survivor of the Holocaust. He escaped Lithuania, and the rest of his family ended up dying in concentration camps. 

MARIAM MARGALES: I'm Miriam Margales. I’m an Australian citizen. I’m 83 and I have never been so ashamed of “IsraHell” as I am at this moment. 

TIKTOKER#4:  I’m chair of the Jewish network for Palestine and it's vital that people realize that many Jewish individuals and organizations hate what's going on. It's not Jew versus Muslim. It's oppressors versus the oppressed and it started in 1948 when “IsraHell” was founded on violent theft. Theft of Palestinian land and lives.

TIKTOKER#5:  I'm a Jewish man and I don't support what IsraHell is doing. I know that there's a lot of Jewish people that won't speak up because they have friends or family that might oust them for it um but for those who do feel the same way I do that's why I'm here.

TIKTOKER#3:  …and since the aftermath of October 7th since my awakening, unfortunately my realization and my activism has now separated me from that side of my family. 

TIKTOKER#1: …. uh that the United States government signs off completely and unconditionally on all of it that one IsraHelli life is given the same weight more than a thousand Palestinian lives! 

TIKTOKER#5: Um I think it's important that Palestinians know that there are Jewish people that care and that hear them and that love them and want nothing but the best um this isn't an oust towards Jewish people either um I feel for you too but let's not pretend that there isn't a massive difference in terms of power dynamics.

MARIAM MARGALES:  To me, it seems as if Hitler has won. He's changed us Jews from being compassionate and caring, into this vicious genocidal nationalist nation. 

RABBI: I feel ashamed by what my people is doing, and I apologize for it. You should know that there are Jews who don't support the attack on Gaza, and we are here as rabbis, trying our best to change the policy of the American government and the IsraHelli government.

RAYAN: The other thing that I noticed that's very inaccurate among so many Zionist vegans, is when they describe vegans for Palestine as having only a ‘tinkering’ of anti-Zionist Jews, there are so many, I’m like, it's not a tinkering there's quite a few! Those of us doing the work on the ground, in any space in any Palestine space whether it's education spaces, disability spaces, academic spaces, vegan spaces, any space that I've been involved in we'll always have anti-Zionist Jews as part of our movement. For anti-Zionist Jews to become advocates for Palestine, there's an unlearning-traumatic-education process but I don't think people realize that that process creates a stronger bond, because being Palestinian I grew up anti-Zionist because I see Zionism as being a genocidal ideology, I experienced Zionism as colonization, so I didn't have to go through that process, when it came to becoming vegan, I had to do a lot of unlearning. Are they parallel processes for you? 

VICTORIA: 100%! It was way harder for me to unlearn things when it came to veganism than it than when it came to colonization and Zionism though I didn't necessarily know those words Zionism anti-Zionism back in 2011. You know I was unlearning my white privilege right I was learning how to be a better ally to be anti-racist because growing up as a white person we are indoctrinated with racism and that in itself has definitely been a lot of unlearning, relearning, educating myself. Not expecting any person of colour to educate me but to educate myself and um yeah so it was really hard for me. It was harder for me to unlearn being an omnivore than it was to unlearn racism and white [bull __ ] can I say [bull __ ]? 

RAYAN: You totally can! [Laughing]

VICTORIA: [Laughing] Yeah and also like what's really hard for me though is to be able to feel a sense of belonging in white spaces because I feel like I have to correct everybody and I feel like that is very hard for white people to deal with and which it shouldn't be. We should be trying to be better, we should try to be anti-racists. I’m not going to say I'm perfect. I definitely am still unlearning. Every day I learn something new in general how I can be better and how I can be a better ally so I always accept call-ins and I also call in other white people and not everybody can handle that or accept that so I've had to do - with regards to my unlearning with anti-Zionism and anti-racism - I've had to do a lot of cutting out people in my life. People who aren't as willing to learn about how to be a better ally as a white person. If I can't reach them I can't try anymore because it is at my detriment and so but I do believe it is my duty to be that person in my familial and friend communities to call in people who are also white, because it shouldn't be the job of people of colour. We should be calling in our family, our friends. 

RAYAN: Precisely. There's an education process that occurs and continues to occur within the within the comrade space of Vegans for Palestine and other groups that are dedicated to Palestinian liberation and that education process we need to embrace it I reckon. Much the same way every day we're learning about how veganism is not just about diet, it's not just about clothing, it is about so much more in terms of our actions, in terms of the way we operate, in terms of which companies we you know purchase goods and services from. Every day we're learning about veganism. Throughout our education process we need to have compassion for ourselves and each other. I noticed when I'd attend rallies in capital cities in so-called Australia I couldn't help but notice how the numbers of anti-Zionist Jews were constantly growing. 

VICTORIA: Unfortunately Zionism isn't only in Jewish spaces, but it's also in Christian spaces, it's also in Muslim spaces, right. So it's a genocidal political horrible entity. I also have been called a self-hating Jew. I’ve been called you know a disgrace to Judaism which I disagree with, like we've said you can't conflate Judaism with Zionism because it's not it's not the same. Judaism is a religion and Zionism is a political ideology. At the beginning of my advocacy for Palestine, as an outspoken anti-Zionist Jew, I was a little afraid especially when I received such hateful antisemitic comments from Zionist Jews or just Zionists and it's the only type of antisemitism I've endured. I’ve been lucky in that regard if that's such a thing but yeah, we definitely are vilified in the sense in Zionism and, like you said, and like we've said, it's not anything in comparison to what Palestinians are enduring but yeah it's unfortunate, but that's what I keep reminding myself. It's unfortunate and I'm going to laugh about it because if I'm not laughing, I'm crying, and I'd rather be laughing and advocating for Palestine and for animals.

[PHONE RINGING]

OPERATOR: Zionist Helpline.

CALLER: My friend just commented on a clip from Gaza, and they said, ‘this is genocide’, what should I do? 

OPERATOR: Have you tried commenting, ‘Israel has the right to self-defence?’

CALLER: Yes, they quoted some propaganda document called the Genevia Convention. 

OPERATOR: Did you try ‘it's not our fault that Hamas uses civilians as human shields’? 

CALLER: Yeah, but then they told me that if someone hides behind a child. you don't get to shoot the child! 

OPERATOR: Okay there's only one option left; bulldoze! 

CALLER: Bulldoze? 

OPERATOR: I need you to go to that post and comment something super simple: ‘This is antisemitic’

CALLER: What if they just respond with facts? 

OPERATOR: Facts don't apply when Zionists can lie. Just drop a fake Holocaust comparison. Call them a terrorist sympathizer and [explosion sound] conversation bulldozed. 

CALLER: You saved me! I was almost about to think critically! 

OPERATOR: At Zionist Helpline, we do all the thinking for you. When in doubt, deny, deny deny!

VICTORIA: Through Vegans for Palestine, I've met quite a few Palestinian vegans in Gaza and those of whom we are advocating for fundraising for their fundraisers. It has been a privilege and an honour to be able to advocate for them and honestly especially with man-made famine that they're enduring I cannot imagine how difficult it must be to be vegan or even vegetarian in Gaza right now because you can barely even get clean water there let alone vegetables, or legumes, or rice, or anything without having such astronomical prices and so it's honourable for anyone to be vegan in such circumstances and I know that us vegans have even considered what would we do in that position and you can't possibly know that answer unless you're in that situation but I do know it's honourable to even try because it's horrifying the lack of food and water that anyone in Gaza has access to and so it's been it's been a privilege to be able to help, fundraise for Palestinians in Gaza, especially vegan Palestinians in Gaza. That's one of the silver linings of this unfortunate genocide is finding community with people who are also uh creating videos to raise funds for Palestinians. I have uh a couple people from Vegans for Palestine and a couple people outside of Vegans for Palestine created a group chat to collaborate on ideas on videos to make for Palestinians in Gaza and um sometimes it's silly sometimes it's tongue-in-cheek. It's mainly to get the attention of people and some people may think some of the videos we make may be inappropriate or what have you. Um like for example somebody recently posted a picture of a vegan plate of food and somebody commented "Oh my god why would you even post that in advocating for Palestinians when they're going through a man-made famine right now?" And we said, "Well to get your attention did it work?" And so unfortunately not everybody will agree with it but so that's one of the examples. Another example is I don't know do you remember All That and uh the jumping in slow motion and [singing] “oh oh oh this is all that”, we did a funny video like that. So we just come up with ideas on how to collaborate on videos to get attention of people who potentially could donate and sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't and we kind of commiserate about that as well which is like an emotional support group of in a way um where we say "Ah damn, that video didn't work! Why didn't people donate?” or “That didn't get many views." or "Hey, this is working, we should try this more." And so that's been another silver lining is finding that little tiny community we've created where we can have fun, laugh instead of cry, and also help raise money for Palestinians in need. And it's also been taxing, like I understand how hard it is to be a content creator now because creating content is very difficult and also creating content that is eye-catching and um viral is really hard and I don't care about the views, I don't care about the likes or comments. What I care about is that gets donations for my friends in Gaza and so that's been a really difficult but also rewarding thing to do. And yeah.

 
RAYAN: So in the creation of community in the shadow of the genocide, we've seen education, trauma, solidarity, lots of emotional responses, we've been inspired, we've been learning, we're getting to know each other. I’ll state the obvious and say it's horrible that this happened in the shadow of a genocide like unfortunately with all of us vegans for Palestine who have come together, who have established bonds and gotten to know each other unfortunately we will always have the genocide as that starting point. That's the incredibly sad part but what we've taken from that is absolutely beautiful. It's almost like we're saying to colonial Zionism yes you impact so much harm and devastation and destruction with your racism, with your vile colonization. We're living in an era whereby we're witnessing with our own eyes bodies massacred every day. It's becoming so normal and in the shadow of that horror, it's almost like we're saying to them: ‘You know what, we're going to get together and we're going to do something beautiful, we're going to create a community, we're going to educate each other, we are going to be there for one another, we're going to learn, we're going to have our arguments which is normal in every community, we are going to have our disagreements, we are going to have our agreements, we're going to change our opinions, we're going to fundraise for people in Gaza, We are going to spread their messages, we're going to develop our skills in terms of learning how to podcast, (*hint *hint) learning how to create content, [Laughing] learning how to create social media posts for the benefit of fundraising, learning how to have conversations about Palestine in vegan circles. So whilst we've experienced this horror and that trauma will unfortunately always be the point in which we all met, that's something that the Zionist project gifted us, but what we're gifting each other is this comradeship and community that they cannot take away from us. 

VICTORIA: Hell yeah! I love that that was beautiful. It really is like finding light despite it all that's what came to my mind finding light despite it all because oh they can kill our joy they can try to kill our joy rather but they won't be able to destroy our community. What is the saying? They can't kill the resistance because it's an idea, it's not a person it's an idea and resistance is multifaceted so as an artist there's a quote that I think of by Nina Simone she said "You can't help it, an artist's duty as far as I'm concerned is to reflect the times” and as an artist I feel like it's our duty to reflect the times right and so resistance can be creating art, resistance can be resting, resistance can be not being productive, resistance can be not spending anything for a day for a few days for a week a month, resistance can be under-consumption, resistance can be communicating for mutual aid with people in your community who are not very vocal who are not very active in activism, having those conversations having those hard conversations, especially if you're white and have white privilege. 

[BASHAR MURAD sings I WISH I KNEW HOW IT WOULD FEEL TO BE FREE (NINA SIMONE COVER) - Music] 

يا ريت أعرف كيف بقدر أصير عصفور بطير ♪♪
يا ريت أقدر أقيم الجنزير اللي ماسكني ♪♪
يا ريت بنفع أحكي كلشي أنا مخبي ♪♪
بصوت عالي كل تعبير وكل العالم يسمعني ♪♪

يا ريت بينفع أعطي كل الحب اللي جوة ♪♪
وأقيم كل الحيطان اللي بتخنقني وبتفرقنا ♪♪
يا ريت أفرجيك شو يعني تكون أنا ♪♪
لما تشوف بتوافقني كل عصفور لازم يطير

♪♪I wish I could give all I'm longing to give♪♪
I wish I could live like I'm longing to live♪♪
♪♪I wish I can do all the things that I can do♪♪
♪♪Though I'm way overdue, I'll be starting anew♪♪

يا ريت، يا ريت، يا ريت ♪♪
يا ريت، يا ريت، يا ريت، يا ريت ♪♪
يا ريت، يا ريت، يا ريت، يا ريت ♪♪
يا ريت، يا ريت ♪♪

بنفع أحكي كلشي أنا مخبي ♪♪
بصوت عالي كل تعبير وكل العالم يسمعني ♪♪

VICTORIA: I think it's important to find joy in resistance and also as a white person know that joy for Palestinians is resistance differently than what joy it would be for me because I can't say my joy is resistance because I have that privilege, it's not a privilege for many people not just Palestinians, people of colour, Indigenous/Aboriginal people, so it's important to recognize that even though yes joy can be resist be resistance, rest can be resistance, all these important things can be it's also important as an activist especially as a white person with white privilege to resist in ways that are a little bit more helpful in a way to people of colour such as fundraising for people for mutual aid but there are many ways to resist and I think that's important to remember that it doesn't have to be one way and there is this whole imagery of different ways to resist and there are different roles in the resistance like there's people who can educate, there's people who can do art, there's people who can be on the ground protesting, there's so many different types of resistance and it's important to just see what your talents are such as me with photography that's why I am leaning towards content creation for fundraising for Palestinians. So it's important to lead with what you're good at, but also not fall into the comfort zone of being like, ‘well joy is resistance and rest is resistance’, but not doing anything in addition to that to advocate for people in need and animals. 

RAYAN: So Victoria, it's been an interesting journey thus far and every day we're hoping that the genocide stops, we are hoping for a ceasefire we are hoping for the right of return, we are hoping for a one-state solution in which all of us can live together, in that, Dalal, Wasim, Ahlam, myself, Said, Dana and yourself are part of a vegan movement in Palestine and in the meantime we're learning a lot about solidarity. We're learning a lot about resistance in this space, can you tell me a bit about what you've learned?

VICTORIA: Yeah, I think that was beautifully said, and I agree, inshallah we will have that. 

RAYAN: Inshallah.

VICTORIA: Inshallah, yeah, so what I've learned is that veganism, anti-Zionism, anti-racism are so very important to me and collective liberation is so very important to me and being a better ally and advocate for all injustices in this world means that I will be continuing to learn and continuing to unlearn and that doesn't mean that just because I'm not perfect gives me an excuse to be imperfect in my advocacy and in my veganism. It's a chance for me to educate myself. It's a chance for me to do better, to take accountability. Also it's important to find joy in the community and to find ways to laugh and create things with the community in order to have a little bit of joy for others or to give joy to others to give hope to others and we can do it in a fun way like for me: art. I want to be able to share that joy in terms of art and in terms of having important conversations with my family, my friends. Also finding ways to push myself outside of my comfort zone like doing a podcast or networking which are two things that I never thought I would do two years ago. Um, it's important to get outside of your comfort zone so that we can grow, we can learn and we can be better and um yeah that's what I've learned. I’ve learned that I'm lucky to - despite these circumstances - have found community, to have found people who I can find purpose with and create small changes and just because they're small changes doesn't mean that they're any less than. It's a beautiful thing to make a small change in somebody's life or even if it seems small to me it could be a very huge change for them. So also finding time to ground yourself and understand what your body wants. It's important to ground yourself to understand what you can and can't do and when you're pushing yourself too far, when you're overextending yourself because if you are not filling up your own cup, you can't fill the cup of others. It's something I really believe in and it's also very frustrating because I could, if I had a cup that was never ending and overflowing - wow I would do so many things. So it's important to understand that you're just one person and you can't change the entire world even if you want to and to try to focus in on what you're good at and have intention rather than be a little bit all over the place which is something I'm learning how to do and have boundaries and understand what I can and cannot commit to, and that's important too because if you overcommit then you're not making such an important impact in that regard so it's important to understand your intention so you can have a better impact.

RAYAN: And can I just say it's an honour to share community with you, it is, absolutely! 

VICTORIA: No it's an honour for me to share community with you! 

RAYAN: God bless you! Thank you! 

VICTORIA: Thank you so much! Free Palestine! 

RAYAN: Free Palestine!

[Music –♪♪ LINA MAKOUL – Shway Shway]

قلبي يا قلبي
دحكيلك عني
حاسة بالغربة
قلبي يا قلبي
بحاجة انه تضمني
بلا ما تحكمني
راتاتاتارارا
راتاتاتارارا
راتاتاتارارارارا
راتاتاتارارا
راتاتاتارارا
راتاتاتارارارارا
حاسة زي الي دي انتق
مش عارفة اذا كنت اصلًا بقدر امرق
امتحاناتي
اختباراتي
ستاندارتاتي
كلها عالي وانا مبالي تعبت من حالي وكل جيالي
انفصماتي
كترة تحليلاتي
كل goal goalati
بعمل مالي بدير اعمالي
بدي ميدالية ع كل الزبالة
الي بزتها الهلقدي غالي
الي مكافتني انشغالي
مصاري حرام مش من حلالي
بقلها لا
بقلها لا علشان صلح اطلالي
اطلال الماضي الي متعبتلي بالي
الي بتحكشلي ضميري بالليالي
انا ما كنتش قاصديتها
وانا ما كنتش عامليتها
علشان المع صورة احتلالي
Again
انا ما كنتش قاصديتها
وانا ما كنتش عامليتها
علشان المع صورة احتلالي
Ok?
ف شوي شوي شوي علي
انا كنت صغيرة
كنتش افهم
شو الي حولي
انا كنت مشغولة
اغسل غسل دماغي عن عيني♪♪
ف شوي شوي شوي علي ♪♪
ف شوي شوي شوي علي
انا كنت مديرة بس ع احلامي مش عالحولي
انا كنت قصيرة مقصرة بس بشوف ع طول عيني♪♪
ف شوي شوي شوي علي
راتاتاتارارا
راتاتاتارارا♪♪
راتاتاتارارارارا
قلبي قلبي قلبي
بحاجة منك اتضمني ضمني ضمني
بلا ما بس تحكمني كون لي كون لي سند
اسمع
انا كنت naive
كنت افكر انه العالم منيح
انه الموسيقى هي الحل الوحيد
وانه كل الناس وردة
كان بدي اعيش
بعالم هباته واصلة للجميع
كنت مفكريتنا كلنا مساكين
طلعت الحياة كذبة
وطلع في سيستم ابن كلبة
طلعوا وجهين لنفس العملة
بغنولك اغاني بوب مارلي one love♪♪
بس هني سوبارو متنكرة لبنتلي
مش white supremacists
هني friendly
مش عرب بس هني اوتنتي
بالنسبة الكو هدا مش مفهوم
بالنسبة الي كان اثبات وجود
هاد الاشي الي كانلي موجود
لو بتخيروني اليوم ما كنت بعود
بس كله هذا علمني الصمود♪♪
خلاني احكي قصة شعب مفروض
مفروض عليه اغتيال مشروط
لهوية باعتها العهود
ف شوي شوي شوي علي
انا كنت صغيرة كنتش افهم شو الي حولي
انا كنت مشغولة اغسل غسل دماغي عن عيني
ف شوي شوي شوي علي
ف شوي شوي شوي علي
انا كنت مديرة بس ع احلامي مش عالحولي
انا كنت قصيرة مقصرة بس بشوف ع طول عيني
ف شوي شوي شوي علي
راتاتااتارارا
راتاتااتارارا
راتاتااتارارارارا
راتاتااتارارا♪♪
راتاتااتارارا
راتاتااتارارارارا♪♪
شوي علي