Lawyers Without Billboards

What If Your Ex Runs Away with Your Child? | Lawyers Without Billboards S2-Ep23

Shewmaker & Lewis Season 2 Episode 23

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0:00 | 28:54

What happens when a parent takes a child and disappears?

In this episode of Lawyers Without Billboards, the attorneys at Shewmaker & Lewis tackle one of the most frightening concerns parents face during custody disputes: child abduction by a parent or family member.

The discussion explores real-world cases of domestic and international child abduction, the controversial story of Faye Yager and Children of the Underground, and the legal tools available to help prevent a parent from fleeing with a child. From custody orders and passport alerts to travel restrictions and court-imposed safeguards, the hosts explain what parents can do when they fear a child may be taken.

You'll also learn how Amber Alerts actually work, why most family abduction cases don't qualify, and what courts can realistically do when concerns about child abduction arise.

Whether you're navigating a custody dispute or simply want to understand your rights, this episode offers practical insights into one of family law's most serious issues.

⏱️ Chapters

 00:00 Introduction
 00:55 What Is Family Child Abduction?
 02:15 The Story of Faye Yager & Children of the Underground
 07:10 Family Abductions vs. Stranger Abductions
 10:15 Real Cases of Parents Taking Children Across State Lines
 12:10 International Child Abduction Concerns
 13:25 How Courts Can Help Prevent Child Abduction
 14:15 Passport Alert Programs & Do-Not-Depart Orders
 16:10 Habitual Residence and Hague Convention Considerations
 17:30 Why a Custody Order Is Your Best Protection
 18:20 Are Amber Alerts Effective?
 22:40 Using Bonds to Deter Child Abduction
 25:35 Can Child Abduction Ever Be Justified?
 27:50 Final Thoughts 

🔔 Subscribe for candid conversations about family law, relationships, and the legal system - without the billboards.

🎙️ Hosts: Steve & Patty Shewmaker, Jimmy & Alexa Lewis
 🎧 Watch here: https://youtu.be/9y0vPomVCn8 or listen on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, and more.

📩 Contact: pshewmaker@shewmakerandlewis.com
| (770) 939-1939
🌐 Website: https://www.shewmakerandlewis.com

🎧 Podcast Library: https://shewmakerandlewis.com/lawyers-without-billboards

🎼 Music by Ben Hernandez – Dragonsong Productions
🎥 Produced by: Bleeding Edge, Inc.
🎬 Audio & Video Production: Rob Burgner
📍 Recorded at: Shewmaker & Lewis, Atlanta, GA

00:00:06 Narrator

Welcome to Lawyers Without Billboards, where we break down family law and other areas of the law.

00:00:12 Narrator

No gimmicks, no legal jargon, just real unfiltered talk from real lawyers.

00:00:17 Narrator

Join your hosts, Steve, Patty, Jimmy and Alexa, partners at Shoemaker and Lewis, a law firm based in Atlanta, Georgia.

00:00:26 Narrator

Every episode they tackle the legal questions that matter most.

00:00:30 Narrator

divorce, custody, child support, alimony, and everything in between.

00:00:35 Narrator

They'll pull back the curtain to give you real insights on what happens inside the courtroom and beyond.

00:00:41 Steve Shewmaker

Whoop! Lawyers without billboards, y'all.

00:00:44 Steve Shewmaker

Happy day here.

00:00:45 Steve Shewmaker

I'm here with my partners, Patty and Alexa and Jimmy Lewis.

00:00:48 Steve Shewmaker

We are smart.

00:00:49 Steve Shewmaker

We are sexy.

00:00:51 Steve Shewmaker

We are punctual.

00:00:52 Steve Shewmaker

Here we are.

00:00:52 Steve Shewmaker

Patty, lead it off.

00:00:53 Steve Shewmaker

What are we talking about today?

00:00:55 Patty Shewmaker

Okay.

00:00:55 Patty Shewmaker

So a few episodes ago, we talked about the Hague Convention on the civil aspects of international child abduction.

00:01:02 Steve Shewmaker

Indeed we did.

00:01:03 Alexa Lewis

It's a mouthful.

00:01:04 Patty Shewmaker

It is a mouthful, but.

00:01:07 Patty Shewmaker

return of children that have been abducted internationally.

00:01:11 Steve Shewmaker

We want to be complimented on our forbearance.

00:01:13 Alexa Lewis

I'm proud of both of you.

00:01:15 Alexa Lewis

Truly, truly proud.

00:01:17 Patty Shewmaker

Okay, don't go there, guys.

00:01:18 Patty Shewmaker

Nope.

00:01:19 Steve Shewmaker

Just the whole point.

00:01:20 Alexa Lewis

It's a family show.

00:01:22 Steve Shewmaker

Jimmy's not going to be happy till we break and he does it.

00:01:24 Steve Shewmaker

He's just.

00:01:26 Steve Shewmaker

Do we want to break now so Jimmy can do it?

00:01:29 Steve Shewmaker

No, Do we want to break now so Jimmy can do it?

00:01:30 Patty Shewmaker

No, he won't.

00:01:31 Alexa Lewis

He'll survive.

00:01:32 Steve Shewmaker

He's going to blow up.

00:01:33 Alexa Lewis

He'll survive.

00:01:34 Steve Shewmaker

He's going to explode.

00:01:35 Steve Shewmaker

There's going to be little bits of Julie everywhere.

00:01:36 Patty Shewmaker

One of the things that comes up when we talk about these cases, and in a lot of child custody cases, is we have a big concern of what if she takes the kids and runs?

00:01:50 Steve Shewmaker

And I always like that.

00:01:50 Steve Shewmaker

I'm like, where are you from?

00:01:53 Steve Shewmaker

Lilburn.

00:01:54 Steve Shewmaker

Where does your family live?

00:01:55 Steve Shewmaker

Lilburn.

00:01:56 Steve Shewmaker

Do you have a passport to any other country?

00:01:59 Steve Shewmaker

No, I don't even have a passport from this country.

00:02:02 Steve Shewmaker

She's not going to go.

00:02:03 Patty Shewmaker

We're not.

00:02:03 Patty Shewmaker

We're not.

00:02:04 Patty Shewmaker

We're not.

00:02:04 Patty Shewmaker

When we talk about preventing child abduction, we're not just talking about international child abduction.

00:02:09 Steve Shewmaker

That's true.

00:02:09 Patty Shewmaker

That's true.

00:02:10 Patty Shewmaker

You know, we're talking about it could be within the United States.

00:02:13 Patty Shewmaker

It could be to another state.

00:02:14 Steve Shewmaker

In fact, stop right there.

00:02:16 Steve Shewmaker

Didn't we watch a like a documentary of the

00:02:20 Steve Shewmaker

Let's talk about that.

00:02:23 Patty Shewmaker

Faye Yeager.

00:02:24 Patty Shewmaker

You're talking about Faye Yeager.

00:02:26 Patty Shewmaker

And we might have to educate Jimmy on it.

00:02:28 Alexa Lewis

You have to educate us.

00:02:29 Patty Shewmaker

Educate me.

00:02:30 Patty Shewmaker

Faye Yeager was, she passed away in 2024.

00:02:34 Patty Shewmaker

Faye Yeager.

00:02:38 Patty Shewmaker

The whole story is kind of unfortunate.

00:02:43 Patty Shewmaker

Faye Yeager was, she would have been 20, 30 years older than me and Steve.

00:02:49 Patty Shewmaker

And she was married in the early 70s, about 1972.

00:02:55 Patty Shewmaker

She walked in on her husband molesting their toddler daughter.

00:03:00 Alexa Lewis

Oh, God.

00:03:00 Steve Shewmaker

Allegedly.

00:03:02 Alexa Lewis

Well, no, she walked in and she said she saw it.

00:03:04 Steve Shewmaker

No, that doesn't mean it happened.

00:03:06 Patty Shewmaker

Hold on.

00:03:06 Alexa Lewis

There's her trace.

00:03:08 Patty Shewmaker

Well, okay, wait.

00:03:09 Patty Shewmaker

I'm going to finish telling you the story, okay?

00:03:11 Steve Shewmaker

Tell it.

00:03:13 Patty Shewmaker

She then, of course, calls the police.

00:03:16 Patty Shewmaker

They go through a nasty divorce.

00:03:18 Patty Shewmaker

She makes these allegations.

00:03:20 Patty Shewmaker

She can't prove them up.

00:03:22 Patty Shewmaker

He gets custody of her daughter.

00:03:25 Patty Shewmaker

We've talked about that.

00:03:26 Patty Shewmaker

Their daughter, yeah, when their daughter is 17 years old, and this is all publicly available information.

00:03:31 Patty Shewmaker

It's all out there on the internet.

00:03:33 Patty Shewmaker

When her daughter was 17 years old, you know, she's living with her dad and the FBI, the police or the FBI show up.

00:03:42 Patty Shewmaker

And turns out that not only had he been molesting their daughter for years and years, he had been molesting other girls.

00:03:48 Alexa Lewis

Oh my God.

00:03:49 Patty Shewmaker

And he actually got put on the FBI's top 10 most wanted list for child molesters.

00:03:56 Patty Shewmaker

So, legit, so it sounds like it legit happened.

00:03:59 Steve Shewmaker

Right, I've always wanted to be on the FBI's 10 most wanted list.

00:04:02 Steve Shewmaker

Not for child molestation, but I've always wanted to be like 10 most wanted.

00:04:06 Alexa Lewis

You just want to be most wanted something.

00:04:07 Patty Shewmaker

You're on my top 10 most on list.

00:04:09 Steve Shewmaker

Yeah, most wanted to take the trash out.

00:04:11 Steve Shewmaker

What were you going to say, Jimmy?

00:04:12 Jimmy Lewis

Are there different categories?

00:04:14 Alexa Lewis

Apparently.

00:04:15 Jimmy Lewis

Like murder, child molestation, bank robber.

00:04:19 Patty Shewmaker

I don't know, maybe, probably.

00:04:20 Jimmy Lewis

I probably wouldn't be on the bank robber one.

00:04:22 Patty Shewmaker

Okay, but because, so Faye Yeager, because of this experience that she had and that the system was so against her and wouldn't listen to her in the late 80s,

00:04:34 Patty Shewmaker

she started an organization called Children of the Underground.

00:04:38 Patty Shewmaker

Are.

00:04:40 Steve Shewmaker

You remembering all this or is it in your underground?

00:04:42 Patty Shewmaker

I remembered it, but then I was like, you know what, I need to go back online and refresh my memory about this woman, because it is a very interesting story and very relevant to what we're talking about.

00:04:51 Patty Shewmaker

But in the lady, she started this organization called Children of the Underground.

00:04:54 Patty Shewmaker

And really it was her and she had some other ladies that would help her.

00:04:58 Patty Shewmaker

And she would help

00:05:01 Patty Shewmaker

women who were going through a divorce and there were allegations of physical or sexual abuse against their children, she would help them.

00:05:09 Patty Shewmaker

She would help them leave.

00:05:10 Patty Shewmaker

Escape, basically.

00:05:12 Patty Shewmaker

She would get fake IDs for them.

00:05:15 Patty Shewmaker

She had this network where she would hide them.

00:05:17 Patty Shewmaker

She would get them out of the state.

00:05:18 Patty Shewmaker

She would move them around in some cases, even out of the country to like Canada and things like that.

00:05:25 Patty Shewmaker

And she actually got criminally prosecuted in the early 90s for this in Cobb County, the jury acquitted her.

00:05:31 Alexa Lewis

I bet.

00:05:34 Patty Shewmaker

Because some of the cases actually were very legitimate.

00:05:36 Alexa Lewis

Well, I was going to ask you, was the Cobb County case that she was helping with, was there some sort of conviction on that or something that she was able to rely on?

00:05:43 Patty Shewmaker

No, it wasn't one specific case.

00:05:45 Patty Shewmaker

They were prosecuting her.

00:05:47 Patty Shewmaker

And so the jury acquitted her because some of these were cases of legitimate abuse.

00:05:52 Patty Shewmaker

And so some of these children who were then adults or older teenagers did testify.

00:06:00 Patty Shewmaker

But then where she ran into trouble, there were a few cases.

00:06:04 Patty Shewmaker

In fact, there was one, it was like one of the last ones that she did, that the mom came to her, asked her to hide her and their two children.

00:06:13 Patty Shewmaker

And she had, if you can watch a documentary, it's on Hulu.

00:06:19 Patty Shewmaker

And she talks about how she would vet this or try to vet this.

00:06:23 Patty Shewmaker

But the problem is, and this is what some of the people who were against what she did, was she was the judge and the jury altogether and made the decision on whether or not the allegations were legitimate.

00:06:34 Patty Shewmaker

And in one of the cases that she did, and a couple cases she got sued for defamation.

00:06:42 Patty Shewmaker

One guy got an actual judgment against her for $5 million.

00:06:45 Patty Shewmaker

Never could go out.

00:06:47 Patty Shewmaker

But this father was going after her pretty heavily, a well-known figure with a lot of money, billionaire.

00:06:56 Patty Shewmaker

And so he was coming after her and that's when she stopped.

00:06:59 Patty Shewmaker

She stopped doing.

00:07:01 Steve Shewmaker

Like Jimmy?

00:07:03 Patty Shewmaker

Yeah, like Jimmy.

00:07:04 Patty Shewmaker

But only.

00:07:07 Patty Shewmaker

It really kind of fits into what we're talking about.

00:07:10 Patty Shewmaker

The National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, they report that approximately 260,000 children are abducted each year.

00:07:20 Patty Shewmaker

Jesus.

00:07:21 Patty Shewmaker

Of that, just in the US, or this is just in the United States.

00:07:26 Patty Shewmaker

Yeah, hence national.

00:07:29 Patty Shewmaker

Of that, they say $200,000 are abducted by a family member.

00:07:34 Patty Shewmaker

So we're not children, 200,000 children, children, 200,000 children, children.

00:07:39 Jimmy Lewis

You said dollars.

00:07:40 Patty Shewmaker

I did.

00:07:40 Patty Shewmaker

I said children.

00:07:42 Alexa Lewis

She meant children.

00:07:43 Jimmy Lewis

Patty the trafficker.

00:07:44 Alexa Lewis

She meant children.

00:07:45 Steve Shewmaker

Patty.

00:07:48 Steve Shewmaker

Patty's money is like another child to her.

00:07:51 Steve Shewmaker

She likes.

00:07:52 Alexa Lewis

Yeah, 6,000 children only worth about $200,000.

00:07:59 Patty Shewmaker

Sorry, my mistake.

00:08:00 Patty Shewmaker

I guess so.

00:08:01 Patty Shewmaker

that's really what we're talking about when we're talking about preventing child abduction.

00:08:06 Patty Shewmaker

We're not talking about, you know, the cases where it's a stranger abducting a child they don't know.

00:08:14 Patty Shewmaker

You don't need some nefarious reasons.

00:08:16 Patty Shewmaker

We're talking about a family member, you know, very often a parent.

00:08:21 Patty Shewmaker

Sometimes a grandparent, sometimes a grandparent.

00:08:24 Steve Shewmaker

We are veterans of

00:08:27 Steve Shewmaker

being targeted by the green-shirted movement down in Fulton and Cottage County, which is mostly, not exclusively, but mostly women who have not gotten custody of their kids.

00:08:36 Steve Shewmaker

Therefore, the court systems are corrupt.

00:08:39 Steve Shewmaker

And I would not put it past some of these people to abduct a child and disappear.

00:08:43 Patty Shewmaker

Well, yeah, and that's kind of what Faye Yeager was doing, and that was the problem.

00:08:50 Patty Shewmaker

That's exactly what Faye Yeager was doing.

00:08:56 Patty Shewmaker

was helping these moms abduct their children away from the fathers.

00:09:03 Patty Shewmaker

And she was the one that was determining whether or not the evidence was sufficient to.

00:09:09 Steve Shewmaker

And she wasn't the last one.

00:09:10 Steve Shewmaker

I mean, the other.

00:09:12 Patty Shewmaker

There's been others, yeah.

00:09:13 Steve Shewmaker

The other woman who we've had personal experience with, I think has gone, I'm not going to mention her name.

00:09:18 Steve Shewmaker

She was recently, as recent as the last five or six years, just very active in helping moms.

00:09:24 Steve Shewmaker

And helping, because if a mother doesn't get her kids, then obviously the system is corrupt.

00:09:28 Jimmy Lewis

Then that's what they think.

00:09:29 Jimmy Lewis

I happen to be on a calendar one time and her case resulted in me

00:09:36 Jimmy Lewis

my case not going until about 7:00 that night, had to sit there and watch her case all day long.

00:09:42 Jimmy Lewis

And no, there is a definitive reason why that woman lost custody of her children.

00:09:47 Jimmy Lewis

Yet it was the court's fault.

00:09:49 Patty Shewmaker

Yeah.

00:09:49 Jimmy Lewis

It was everybody's fault but her.

00:09:51 Steve Shewmaker

Right.

00:09:51 Alexa Lewis

Since, I don't know if you have the statistic, but is it, was it only mothers she was helping or were there ever fathers that reached out with some help?

00:10:00 Patty Shewmaker

I believe it was only mothers.

00:10:03 Steve Shewmaker

And this other lady we're mentioning, I can't believe I can't think of any case where it was a father.

00:10:10 Patty Shewmaker

Right, So, we do get that question a lot and it comes up as a concern for parents.

00:10:17 Patty Shewmaker

How do I keep her from running away with the children?

00:10:21 Patty Shewmaker

How do I keep him from running away with the children?

00:10:23 Patty Shewmaker

And we've had those cases.

00:10:25 Patty Shewmaker

I mean, Steve, you just had the case where mom took the child and moved to Texas and wouldn't tell dad where she was.

00:10:33 Steve Shewmaker

That was a year or so ago, but that's a good case.

00:10:35 Steve Shewmaker

I mean, you're right.

00:10:36 Steve Shewmaker

You have these cases where, and no two are exactly alike, but in that particular case, she married another fellow and told our client, I'm leaving and moving to Texas.

00:10:45 Steve Shewmaker

Good luck.

00:10:46 Steve Shewmaker

See you.

00:10:47 Steve Shewmaker

She was having her mail sent to a mail rerouting service so that she so that he could not so that she would get her child support from him, but he could not figure out where she was.

00:10:56 Steve Shewmaker

We were lucky enough to figure out that she'd married a service member and was on Fort Bliss out in El Paso, Texas.

00:11:02 Steve Shewmaker

And frankly, the luckiest break we got is I started texting this woman directly.

00:11:07 Steve Shewmaker

And the first few text messages were pretty direct.

00:11:10 Steve Shewmaker

They were like, hey, we can do this the easy way or the hard way.

00:11:13 Steve Shewmaker

And she started getting belligerent before she just totally ghosted me.

00:11:17 Steve Shewmaker

And we finally got her.

00:11:19 Steve Shewmaker

That's one flavor.

00:11:21 Steve Shewmaker

the Fay Yeager type is where people are living underground, where they're living in various safe houses, where you can't find them no matter what you do, because they are absolutely trying to live in a clandestine manner.

00:11:32 Alexa Lewis

Well, and they're using fake IDs and stuff like that.

00:11:34 Alexa Lewis

We would never even know.

00:11:35 Steve Shewmaker

That's what clandestine means.

00:11:37 Steve Shewmaker

But the point being, like I thought clandestine was the KKK.

00:11:41 Steve Shewmaker

No.

00:11:42 Steve Shewmaker

The fact is that that's a very rare thing for people to go to that level, that extreme, because it requires

00:11:51 Steve Shewmaker

a lot of assistance from other people and money that most people don't have lying around.

00:11:55 Patty Shewmaker

And it's also very hard in this.

00:11:57 Patty Shewmaker

It's getting harder in this day and age.

00:11:59 Steve Shewmaker

It's getting harder.

00:12:01 Alexa Lewis

To stay hidden, yeah.

00:12:02 Steve Shewmaker

It's just stay hidden.

00:12:03 Steve Shewmaker

And yet another flavor of it is the international stuff where you go, where you are, and this is probably the one we hear more than anything.

00:12:10 Steve Shewmaker

I think the two I hear the most are

00:12:13 Steve Shewmaker

I'm afraid that, he or she is going to run off with the kids somewhere in the country and just live underground.

00:12:20 Steve Shewmaker

Not very common, hard to do.

00:12:23 Steve Shewmaker

And then the other one I hear a lot is, she is a citizen of another country.

00:12:27 Steve Shewmaker

They have dual passports.

00:12:28 Steve Shewmaker

I hear that a lot.

00:12:30 Steve Shewmaker

And I just recently had a case, which I'm waiting on an order in, but everybody in that case is from Belarus.

00:12:38 Steve Shewmaker

and they are joint citizens.

00:12:40 Steve Shewmaker

Because you frequently have to ask, does this country even do joint citizenship?

00:12:44 Steve Shewmaker

Because I don't know.

00:12:45 Steve Shewmaker

And you can today be a joint citizen of United States of Belarus.

00:12:49 Steve Shewmaker

So I'm like, okay, so everybody in this case, mother, the father, and the kids have passports from both countries.

00:12:54 Steve Shewmaker

Then the next question I ask is, when's the last time any of you went to Belarus?

00:12:58 Steve Shewmaker

Oh, we haven't been to the 15 years.

00:13:00 Steve Shewmaker

Okay, then probably we're not worried about that thing.

00:13:04 Alexa Lewis

Right.

00:13:04 Patty Shewmaker

It's hard to predict, right?

00:13:06 Steve Shewmaker

It's hard to predict now, but the families that go back frequently, back and forth and have active family connections.

00:13:11 Alexa Lewis

Are they on property in that country still?

00:13:13 Steve Shewmaker

Yeah, and I can't tell people, I tell people all the time, I cannot predict the future.

00:13:18 Steve Shewmaker

Impossible.

00:13:19 Steve Shewmaker

It is, and I can't prevent every damn thing.

00:13:22 Patty Shewmaker

Right.

00:13:22 Patty Shewmaker

So what are some of you all's thoughts and ideas on how do you prevent child abduction?

00:13:28 Jimmy Lewis

So I am.

00:13:29 Jimmy Lewis

Lojack.

00:13:31 Patty Shewmaker

Lojack on the child.

00:13:32 Patty Shewmaker

I like it.

00:13:33 Jimmy Lewis

Yeah, remember, and.

00:13:34 Jimmy Lewis

Here, Jack.

00:13:35 Jimmy Lewis

Love the loves good links.

00:13:36 Jimmy Lewis

And beginning of Casino Royale and they just.

00:13:39 Jimmy Lewis

put the little chip inside bonds so we can track him everywhere and track all his vitals.

00:13:43 Patty Shewmaker

Oh, it's coming.

00:13:44 Patty Shewmaker

Yep, it's coming.

00:13:45 Steve Shewmaker

We do it on the hats and dogs.

00:13:47 Patty Shewmaker

We do it on our dogs.

00:13:48 Patty Shewmaker

And our horse is going to happen.

00:13:50 Patty Shewmaker

And our horse is microchip.

00:13:51 Patty Shewmaker

Yeah, we don't want to lose him.

00:13:53 Patty Shewmaker

He's hard to lose though.

00:13:54 Patty Shewmaker

He's awfully big.

00:13:55 Steve Shewmaker

My tooth is chipped, but.

00:13:58 Alexa Lewis

Sounds like personal.

00:13:58 Steve Shewmaker

You don't need to get a face, but it's just going to wear itself down.

00:14:01 Jimmy Lewis

I've had multiple cases where there's someone on the other side who is a national of another country, and we have

00:14:09 Jimmy Lewis

The kids' names, as far as travel notification type things, or passport application notifications, right?

00:14:17 Jimmy Lewis

So, things of that nature, right?

00:14:18 Patty Shewmaker

So, right, so you just touched on a couple of things: the passport issuance program alert or alert passport issuance.

00:14:27 Patty Shewmaker

alert program, which you can submit your child's name to this program with the State Department.

00:14:35 Patty Shewmaker

And the State Department will notify you if anybody applies for a passport in your child's name.

00:14:40 Patty Shewmaker

So that's one option, absolutely.

00:14:43 Patty Shewmaker

Another thing you're talking about, then Jimmy, also was do not depart language in a court order.

00:14:50 Patty Shewmaker

So if you get a do not depart order, you can submit that to the State Department.

00:14:54 Patty Shewmaker

And they're supposed to provide that to Customs and Border Patrol.

00:14:59 Patty Shewmaker

So if anybody leaves out of a port of entry, be it an airport, a harbor, or a border, they should be checked.

00:15:10 Patty Shewmaker

Now, the problem with that is that's only as good as the agent that's doing the checking.

00:15:15 Patty Shewmaker

So it's not infallible.

00:15:18 Steve Shewmaker

Yeah, so you're telling me if I get in a car in San Diego,

00:15:22 Steve Shewmaker

And I crossed the border there at, what was it, Mexicale down in Tijuana?

00:15:27 Steve Shewmaker

Tijuana, yeah, with my child in the car that they're going to know that there's a do not depart order in a computer someplace.

00:15:35 Patty Shewmaker

That's, you see my point?

00:15:36 Alexa Lewis

That's the hope, right?

00:15:37 Patty Shewmaker

You see my point?

00:15:38 Steve Shewmaker

Oh, I have more faith in it today than I would 10 years ago.

00:15:41 Alexa Lewis

Yeah, it's all electronic now.

00:15:43 Steve Shewmaker

Yeah, 10 years from now, yeah.

00:15:44 Patty Shewmaker

But I mean, think about the times you've gone through customs and, you know, especially us when we're traveling and we have Molly with us now, nobody really looks at

00:15:52 Patty Shewmaker

because she looks like an adult.

00:15:53 Patty Shewmaker

But they used to, though.

00:15:55 Patty Shewmaker

but then they're not checking anything to see.

00:15:58 Patty Shewmaker

Now, maybe they just assume, since both of us are traveling with her, that we're her parents.

00:16:04 Alexa Lewis

Well, and she kind of looks like both of you, so that helps.

00:16:06 Alexa Lewis

Just saying.

00:16:08 Patty Shewmaker

It does.

00:16:10 Patty Shewmaker

One of the other things that you can do is see if this certainly would be applicable maybe in your Belarus case.

00:16:15 Patty Shewmaker

And I've done this in some cases where you have a concern that.

00:16:18 Steve Shewmaker

No, because I should say that the child in that particular case is like 16.

00:16:22 Patty Shewmaker

I'm like, I've seen a big years.

00:16:23 Steve Shewmaker

Yeah, what you're really looking at, no, what you're, yeah, you're really looking at like a two-year-old.

00:16:29 Steve Shewmaker

But you know, once a child turns 16, nobody wants that child.

00:16:32 Alexa Lewis

True.

00:16:33 Alexa Lewis

Hey, I'm so.

00:16:33 Jimmy Lewis

They're like, oh, can you take it back?

00:16:36 Steve Shewmaker

You'd pay for everything too.

00:16:37 Steve Shewmaker

Yeah, the biggest insult would be to steal my child and then send me the bill.

00:16:40 Steve Shewmaker

I mean, just come on.

00:16:42 Patty Shewmaker

A lot of things you can do though, and this is really with

00:16:47 Patty Shewmaker

with the Hague Convention, and if you think you're going to invoke the Hague Convention, is to put language into the parenting plan that says, look, in Belarus, let's assume you're a Belarus case that the child was younger, like three or four or five.

00:17:02 Patty Shewmaker

You might put language in there that says, look, the parties agree that the United States is the child's country of habitual residence.

00:17:10 Patty Shewmaker

Because then, because then you've already made a big step in establishing that prima facie case that the United States and the child should be returned to the United States.

00:17:20 Patty Shewmaker

Now, we talk about all of this though, the do not depart, the language regarding individual residence.

00:17:29 Patty Shewmaker

That's assuming we have a court order, right?

00:17:31 Patty Shewmaker

So we'll tell you the number one thing that you can do to prevent child abduction, whether it's within the country or international,

00:17:38 Patty Shewmaker

is to have a court order.

00:17:40 Patty Shewmaker

To have a court order adjusting custody and adjusting parenting time.

00:17:45 Patty Shewmaker

And, this is hard to do, and you really have to have something that there's been some historical.

00:17:54 Patty Shewmaker

incident or some sort of precedent, within the family, maybe even language that limits it, supervised visitation or limits visitation to try to, or language that, look, visitation has to occur within 25 miles of, the child's primary residence.

00:18:12 Patty Shewmaker

Things like that is like one of the number one things that you guys can do.

00:18:17 Patty Shewmaker

What do you guys think about AMP Alerts?

00:18:20 Patty Shewmaker

Helpful in preventing child abduction.

00:18:22 Alexa Lewis

If they're helpful in preventing, I certainly think they're helpful in recovering, hopefully, but I don't think that they're necessarily helpful in preventing.

00:18:33 Patty Shewmaker

What do you what do you mean?

00:18:35 Jimmy Lewis

I'd like to think so, because you get that alert on your phone, you see billboards everywhere, and here, like I saw a video recently that I think it was in Arizona that some movers just like

00:18:50 Jimmy Lewis

guys in a moving truck who they had all their dash scams just from a professional liability standpoint.

00:18:56 Jimmy Lewis

And one of them was like, hey, is that truck that we saw on that Amber Alert sign?

00:19:02 Jimmy Lewis

And the other one's like, I don't know.

00:19:04 Jimmy Lewis

And then you see this little girl get out of the car.

00:19:07 Jimmy Lewis

And I think it was actually her aunt who had kidnapped her.

00:19:09 Jimmy Lewis

And they were like, that looked like that kid.

00:19:12 Jimmy Lewis

And one of them's on the phone with the cops.

00:19:14 Jimmy Lewis

He was like, hey, I think this is it.

00:19:16 Jimmy Lewis

And he reads the license fine number and the cop's like, yeah, that's it.

00:19:20 Jimmy Lewis

We'll have someone there immediately.

00:19:22 Jimmy Lewis

And they just pulled the movie truck up right behind that truck.

00:19:28 Jimmy Lewis

So in that situation, it was very helpful.

00:19:30 Patty Shewmaker

Which is interesting because, so

00:19:36 Patty Shewmaker

Amber Alerts, it's a federal, it's a federal, it's a federal law.

00:19:40 Patty Shewmaker

And it was named after a little girl named Amber who was nine years old.

00:19:44 Patty Shewmaker

She was abducted by a stranger who then raped and killed her.

00:19:48 Patty Shewmaker

I mean, very horrifying, very horrific, right?

00:19:52 Patty Shewmaker

So an Amber Alert, and every state has their own variation of the Amber Alert system.

00:19:57 Patty Shewmaker

The Department of Justice, they have guidelines of when an Amber Alert should be issued.

00:20:04 Patty Shewmaker

And those conditions are, local law enforcement has confirmed that an abduction has occurred.

00:20:12 Patty Shewmaker

The abducted child must be at risk for serious bodily injury or death.

00:20:17 Patty Shewmaker

There's sufficient descriptive information about the child, the abductor, and the vehicle.

00:20:21 Patty Shewmaker

And the abducted child is under the age of 18.

00:20:24 Patty Shewmaker

So, you know, based on that second prong, the abduction child.

00:20:29 Patty Shewmaker

Right, so Amber Alerts really

00:20:33 Patty Shewmaker

when you go back and look at the law and why they were, what they were intended for, they weren't really intended for family introduction scenarios.

00:20:43 Patty Shewmaker

And there's some organizations

00:20:46 Patty Shewmaker

When I was doing my research, they think that Amber Alerts have lost their effectiveness because we get them so often.

00:20:52 Patty Shewmaker

I mean, when you get an Amber Alert on your phone, do you really pay attention to it anymore?

00:20:57 Patty Shewmaker

Not really.

00:20:58 Patty Shewmaker

So some of them.

00:20:58 Patty Shewmaker

Now, Department of Justice says yes, they have over the years helped us stop.

00:21:04 Patty Shewmaker

Because really what you're trying to do is stop it in the process.

00:21:08 Patty Shewmaker

And they say where it's, and we're kind of getting away from family abductions, but where somebody's done it nefariously.

00:21:16 Patty Shewmaker

They stay within three hours.

00:21:17 Patty Shewmaker

You got to get them within three hours.

00:21:18 Patty Shewmaker

And so that was the whole point of the Amber Alert.

00:21:20 Patty Shewmaker

Rise them was that while they're in the process, just to catch them fast.

00:21:24 Alexa Lewis

Yeah, basically before they can get to wherever it is they're going to do what they're going to do.

00:21:27 Patty Shewmaker

Yeah, Department of Justice says that they've saved 800 children.

00:21:31 Alexa Lewis

When was this enacted?

00:21:32 Patty Shewmaker

I don't know.

00:21:33 Patty Shewmaker

I didn't write that down.

00:21:35 Alexa Lewis

That's really low.

00:21:36 Patty Shewmaker

Well, yes, but remember, Amber Alert's not really designed for a family abduction scenario.

00:21:40 Patty Shewmaker

So when you go back to 200,000 out, 260,000,

00:21:45 Patty Shewmaker

children are family abduction.

00:21:47 Patty Shewmaker

So you're not, it's not a situation where the child is in at the risk of serious bodily injury or death.

00:21:54 Patty Shewmaker

It's usually a situation where it's a parent or a relative abducting the child.

00:21:58 Patty Shewmaker

The child's willingly going to go to that because they don't know better.

00:22:03 Patty Shewmaker

So I always think that's interesting about Amber Alerts because I've actually had

00:22:09 Patty Shewmaker

clients say, we need to do an Amber Alert, we need to do an Amber Alert.

00:22:13 Patty Shewmaker

And I was like, well, it doesn't fit the criteria.

00:22:15 Patty Shewmaker

It's not really an Amber Alert.

00:22:17 Alexa Lewis

I'm sure there's a case out there in which there was a parent or a close family member in which it fits the decision where you can prove there's actually a risk to the child.

00:22:27 Alexa Lewis

But yeah, you're right.

00:22:28 Alexa Lewis

Like the vast majority of these, it's just, it's my custodial time, they won't get the kid back.

00:22:34 Patty Shewmaker

I want to throw out another idea to you guys and ask you guys if you guys have ever used this as a tool to prevent child abduction.

00:22:42 Patty Shewmaker

Bonds.

00:22:44 Alexa Lewis

I have not.

00:22:46 Patty Shewmaker

Bonds.

00:22:46 Patty Shewmaker

So having a parent put up a bond to exercise visitation.

00:22:53 Patty Shewmaker

And Steve, you and I actually had a case where we didn't do it for visitation, but we actually, the parent had to put up a bond

00:22:59 Patty Shewmaker

I don't remember that case, but I'll take your word for it.

00:23:04 Patty Shewmaker

We actually had a case where in the parenting plan, if either parent wanted to travel internationally, we held the passport.

00:23:14 Patty Shewmaker

And if either child wanted to travel internationally with the child, they had to bring us $10,000, which I would hold in our escrow account until they came back.

00:23:22 Patty Shewmaker

And when they turned over the passport, they got the check out.

00:23:25 Patty Shewmaker

Interesting.

00:23:25 Steve Shewmaker

Jimmy and Alexa had kids.

00:23:27 Steve Shewmaker

We just have a bond.

00:23:28 Steve Shewmaker

that Jimmy would have to bring all of his guns to us.

00:23:32 Steve Shewmaker

And if he didn't come back on schedule, then he forfeited all his guns to the state.

00:23:37 Steve Shewmaker

He would never, ever jeopardize his guns.

00:23:40 Alexa Lewis

Correct.

00:23:42 Jimmy Lewis

I know what you're talking about.

00:23:44 Patty Shewmaker

Now, there's not

00:23:48 Patty Shewmaker

any case law in Georgia regarding the use of bonds for visitation.

00:23:51 Patty Shewmaker

There's case law in other states where states, the trial courts have effectively used it to say, okay, we think that you are a flight risk and if you want to have visitation, you're going to put forth this bond.

00:24:05 Patty Shewmaker

And so there is case law support out there for the use of bonds.

00:24:10 Patty Shewmaker

But again, the challenge that you have is there's got to be some sort of indication

00:24:16 Patty Shewmaker

typically to support, a child court doing that.

00:24:20 Patty Shewmaker

In the cases that I had, there were prior acts where that parent had abducted the child and it took, six months, a year to get the child back and things like that.

00:24:30 Alexa Lewis

So if you did that with the bond, I guess.

00:24:33 Alexa Lewis

if they didn't return with the child, the funds go to the other parent.

00:24:36 Alexa Lewis

Essentially, they're going to pay that to an attorney to file something.

00:24:38 Alexa Lewis

That's exactly what it is.

00:24:39 Alexa Lewis

It's a retainer.

00:24:40 Patty Shewmaker

That's exactly.

00:24:41 Patty Shewmaker

That's exactly.

00:24:41 Patty Shewmaker

I like it.

00:24:42 Patty Shewmaker

That's exactly the thought process.

00:24:43 Patty Shewmaker

And the thought process is, you know, maybe if you have some skin in the game, you will within twice.

00:24:47 Jimmy Lewis

And see, I'm thinking about a few cases in particular that I've dealt with where the other side are nationals of countries that are not signatories.

00:25:01 Alexa Lewis

Yeah.

00:25:03 Jimmy Lewis

They have enough family in that country that I'll pay.

00:25:08 Alexa Lewis

Yeah, it won't matter.

00:25:09 Jimmy Lewis

I'll pay 100 grand bond.

00:25:11 Jimmy Lewis

And if that's what I get to get my kid out of this country and get them in this country where you will never get that child back, I'll pay that.

00:25:18 Patty Shewmaker

Yeah, but at least, at least then you're at least the parent, the left behind parent, you're at least giving them the funds to try to at least, you know, recover the kid.

00:25:28 Patty Shewmaker

Yeah, because they're going to have to go to that country and fight it.

00:25:32 Steve Shewmaker

As attorneys, we have to say, look, there's only so much we can do.

00:25:36 Alexa Lewis

Yeah, correct.

00:25:36 Steve Shewmaker

Those are extreme cases.

00:25:38 Steve Shewmaker

They happen, but they're not common.

00:25:40 Steve Shewmaker

It's possible, but it's not likely.

00:25:42 Steve Shewmaker

And you can't always prevent every damn possibility.

00:25:47 Alexa Lewis

You can't foresee every circumstance.

00:25:49 Patty Shewmaker

You can't.

00:25:50 Patty Shewmaker

You're absolutely right.

00:25:51 Patty Shewmaker

And these are just some tips and tools.

00:25:54 Patty Shewmaker

And again, the number one thing that you can do to prevent child abduction is have a custody order in place.

00:26:00 Alexa Lewis

I might microchip your kid.

00:26:02 Patty Shewmaker

I don't know why we don't.

00:26:04 Alexa Lewis

I mean, I'm just saying.

00:26:05 Jimmy Lewis

Leashes.

00:26:06 Alexa Lewis

You can only drag a leash so far.

00:26:08 Steve Shewmaker

Hey, Molly, we're coming to get you.

00:26:10 Steve Shewmaker

We're coming to get you on Saturday.

00:26:11 Steve Shewmaker

We're going to go get your chips.

00:26:13 Patty Shewmaker

Yeah, get your microchips.

00:26:16 Patty Shewmaker

I mean, why not put a little chip in her ear?

00:26:18 Steve Shewmaker

I love it.

00:26:19 Patty Shewmaker

You know.

00:26:19 Steve Shewmaker

I love it.

00:26:20 Patty Shewmaker

All right.

00:26:21 Patty Shewmaker

Well, that's, you know, unless you guys have something to add or other ideas, I'd love to get them.

00:26:25 Jimmy Lewis

Those sent from the audience.

00:26:28 Jimmy Lewis

Do you know of a case where a parent abducted a child and that was effectively found to be justified and they ended up with custody?

00:26:40 Patty Shewmaker

Do I know of 1?

00:26:42 Patty Shewmaker

off the top of my head.

00:26:42 Patty Shewmaker

I mean, it's just like a hard.

00:26:45 Alexa Lewis

Well, that's a little vague though, because we're also talking about, you call it abduction when you remove the child from their habitual residence.

00:26:53 Alexa Lewis

If in a Hague Convention case, it's determined that the child shouldn't be returned.

00:26:56 Patty Shewmaker

Abduction, remember, abduction is not just international.

00:26:58 Alexa Lewis

Sure, no, I know, but I'm talking, but that is a scenario in which we're talking about, quote, abduction, where

00:27:04 Alexa Lewis

Yes, there can be cases where the child is not returned.

00:27:08 Patty Shewmaker

Yeah.

00:27:08 Alexa Lewis

Right.

00:27:08 Alexa Lewis

So that would sort of fit the criteria.

00:27:10 Patty Shewmaker

And I've had those cases where we've had a parent abduct the child to hear and the court didn't return it, return the child.

00:27:18 Alexa Lewis

So it sort of fits that criteria-ish.

00:27:20 Patty Shewmaker

Is it justified?

00:27:21 Patty Shewmaker

I mean, it's

00:27:26 Patty Shewmaker

You got to be very, very careful, and you better make sure that it's justified.

00:27:30 Patty Shewmaker

that kind of goes back to the Faye Yeager situation, where some of those cases that she helped mothers and children, some of them were actually legitimate abuse cases.

00:27:41 Patty Shewmaker

But you have to be very, very careful when you start taking the law into your own hands, because that can backfire very quickly.

00:27:49 Patty Shewmaker

That's a good question, though.

00:27:51 Steve Shewmaker

That's a great question.

00:27:52 Patty Shewmaker

Yeah.

00:27:53 Steve Shewmaker

I think that is an awesome question.

00:27:54 Steve Shewmaker

And this so concludes this riveting, rivet, riveting episode of Lawyers Without Billboards.

00:28:02 Steve Shewmaker

Rivet.

00:28:03 Steve Shewmaker

Peace out.

00:28:17 Narrator

That's it for this episode of Lawyers Without Billboards.

00:28:21 Narrator

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00:28:30 Narrator

For more resources or to get in touch with us, visit shoemakerandlewis.com.

00:28:35 Narrator

Thanks for listening and we'll see you next time.