Whiskey & Donuts
Whiskey & Donuts is where sharp analysis - and maybe a shot or two of speculation - meets unfiltered conversation, tackling politics, culture, and the issues that matter with a mix of logic, humor, and straight talk. No echo chambers, no nonsense -just real discussions with a side of wit and a strong pour of common sense.
Whiskey & Donuts
Whose Misogyny Kept A Woman From Being President?
Was America’s first female president just a missed opportunity? We explore how political strategy - not just misogyny - kept the glass ceiling intact. What if Biden had stepped down in 2022 or 2023, making Kamala Harris the incumbent? Could that have reshaped 2024? Or better yet - according to Tré anyway - what if Kamala, too, had gotten out of the way?
We break down the cold electoral math: for a Democrat to win the presidency means securing Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin. Being qualified isn’t enough - candidates must resonate with swing-state voters. While Democrats blame sexism (and Russia!), could their real problem be backing the wrong candidates at the wrong time?
As dozens of countries elect women leaders, the U.S. lags behind. Which party will make history first? The answer may come down to strategy over symbolism.
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let's talk about the presidency. That could have been I don't mean like some fantasy scenario. Uh, this is inspired by one of my good friends, uh, who I got to say first. I want to make sure I can make this very clear lives, their intelligence, their compassion, all the things that make them the sort of human that I myself endeavor to become someday when I grow up. Finally, she is on that list. It's a very short list, but she is on that list and I've known her for a very long time.
Speaker 1:My statement, which brought up the discussion, was that if you guys and I'm talking about Democrats were not misogynists, joe would have resigned in 2023 and the US would have had its first woman president, if not earlier, 2022 or 2023. And if she that's Kamala had declined to run in 2024, the United States could also have elected a woman to be president. She was right there and I said it years ago. They had a candidate and they refused to run her. So I made that statement and I left it for people to offer their response, and the response from my friend was I disagree. Misogyny is why she was never going to be elected, and now we're talking about Kamala never going to be elected the same reason Hillary was never going to be elected, and we've got a fucking long way to go if we're ever going to have a female president. Plenty of other countries have figured out that women can lead just fine, but not the US. That's why we're not all that great, I mean if you don't count gun deaths, incarceration rates, terrible health care system, education, etc.
Speaker 2:And that's the end quote. Get the fuck out, that's what I say.
Speaker 1:No, no, John.
Speaker 2:That's me, that's just me. You don't like it here, you can move.
Speaker 1:We're talking about someone who I know you like her, but I don't know her.
Speaker 2:We're talking about someone who I know you like her, but I don't know her.
Speaker 1:Trust me when I say that she's someone who's. There's people who roll their sleeves up and got their feet on the ground doing the work, and she is in that category. But the sentiment that she expresses is one that's shared by millions of women and men in the US, which is that misogyny is, if not the reason, it is a primary reason that both Kamala and Hillary were not elected. President and John, I have to say I could not disagree more, because neither was a good candidate. Here's the thing. Here's the thing, and I love intelligent people. I love people who bring their receipts. I love people who say, oh, this person's resume is boom, boom, boom, that's terrific, but see, your resume alone doesn't make you electable. You look at that resume and say, oh, all these things makes a person qualified to be a US president. I'm like, well, okay, those qualifications look nice in a vacuum, but this election is not in a vacuum. You got to be electable in order to really be qualified, and so, obviously, I could go on for years, hours. I could go on for hours at any given moment about why Hillary wasn't going to be elected, but you can't say that I'm a misogynist, when the candidate that I gave you was a woman.
Speaker 1:The candidate that I said who would have made the 2024 election competitive was Gretchen, and it was true. It's true today, it was true a year ago, it was true two years ago. And let me get this last point in before I let you go. If Joe Biden resigns, and whether it's in 2022, 2023, whatever Kamala Harris becomes the next US president, you Democrats would have had the ability to say the first female president was a Democrat. It doesn't matter that she wasn't elected at the ballot box, because, after all, I mean, you think about it she kind of was. I mean, you elect a vice president. That's what you're doing. You're electing a vice president. Um, so she would have been doing her job at that point exactly. So there was an opportunity for her to be president, and I stand on saying that.
Speaker 1:I believe that gretchen and and what I said to the Democrats they don't listen to me is the thing I said your best pathway to the White House in 2024 is you hold the map and you make sure you capture Pennsylvania, michigan and Wisconsin, which Joe and Kamala did win back in 2020. You have to hold that part of the map, otherwise you can't win. You're not going to win. There was no other pathway. And they come back to me after and say well, look, if you add up the total number of votes which separated Donald and Kamala in 2024, wasn't that many 2024, wasn't that many? And if you simply add more voters who come out to support your message, that puts you over the top. What they're telling me when they say that John goes to exactly what I've been complaining about these last several weeks, which is that they're thinking that they were right and they're doubling down on it.
Speaker 2:Right. That's what we? We mean. You were just talking about that, uh, with the stephen a smith thing when he went on the view and broke it down for them by them, by you know, the view, saying it's not a mandate. He broke it down saying it is a mandate, you know, and then trying to get back to this conversation with these same people that are saying misogyny to everybody who didn't vote for a woman. Would they be saying the same thing if a Republican woman won the presidency? I don't think you know what. If Trump's daughter runs to be president and she becomes the first woman president, would they have the same feelings towards her that they have towards Kamala, the greatest elected or non-elected woman to ever run for presidency?
Speaker 1:you know, I I don't think that the support would be the same.
Speaker 2:I think it would be well, they can't right they can't they because they've painted themselves into a corner. They can't support it. What they're saying is they want a woman president, but they only want a woman president that fits what they want. They don't they, so they don't really want a woman president that fits what they want. So they don't really want a woman president. They just didn't want Trump to be president, and that's why Kamala Harris didn't win.
Speaker 1:I mean, what a missed, you know, just a completely missed opportunity If Biden steps down in 23,. When did we start talking about his cognitive decline?
Speaker 2:Before he was elected, there was you laugh, but my whole side was saying that dude can't do it it was definitely in.
Speaker 1:In 22, for sure, is when we began to see just a lot more.
Speaker 2:You know whether it was I think the things that came out of your side. I think that's when your side woke up and finally started seeing it legitimately. I never. I always looked at that guy like he couldn't.
Speaker 1:He could barely walk and chew bubblegum at the same time he, he really should have resigned almost immediately after getting the office right.
Speaker 1:He should have resigned immediately after leaving the office with Obama and never got back into politics when he was campaigning back in 2020, there were things that people could see and when Republicans would say, oh look, this guy doesn't look well, he doesn't look healthy enough to campaign, let alone be president, by 22,. You know, it was pretty certain that he should resign, and by by I don't know he wouldn't. And if you said anything about it, they looked at you and said, oh, you're just being a hater, he's fine, he's fine, he's fine. They kept saying that and as a you know center left independent, I'm looking at it like you guys are playing in our faces and you're looking kind of stupid doing that.
Speaker 2:Right? Do you remember the end of Ronald Reagan's presidency?
Speaker 1:Loosely.
Speaker 2:Loosely so he. So I guess he had like, like started getting dementia and Alzheimer's and stuff like that towards the end of his presidency and he and the Republicans were like, no, he's fine, he's fine. Well, then he leaves office, come to find out he has full blown dementia, and you know, then we fast forward here and then the same things happen with the democrats. It's like history repeating itself. If you go back and look at some of his speeches that he gave as he was leaving the white house as vice president at that time you could tell like, if you listen to him, he was, he was, he was screwing things up. Then you know I think he was better than he is today. Um, and I think over the last four years it definitely got worse.
Speaker 2:And I'm not saying that the white house isn't a difficult job, but you know, when you're that bad, like who, I think the question is who's running the country and what are they doing behind the scenes when nobody's looking Right? And I don't know I mean I don't know what that has to do with a female running for president. Know, I think that if he would have dropped out 21, 22 and kamala would have became president, I think they would have, everybody would have just lost their minds about it. I mean, let's face it, she she dropped out of the race. She was the first one out because she didn't get anybody to vote for her. And then they made her vice president and then four years later everybody was like, oh, she's the woman, like she's our girl without a primary. They just pushed her out there and said she's the best that we got, and and I think they found out quickly that she wasn't. And now I hear that she's gonna run for governor, whatever of California. God help us.
Speaker 1:I have to say that I disagree with their strategy all along. The only thing that they did correct was to finally get him out of the race. Last summer they did do that and actually loved the way they set it up. Uh, he went apparently on a broadcast, uh, and said something like no, I intend to run, but if there's something health related I would drop out. And then magically he gets covid.
Speaker 2:I'm like, oh, how convenient now, obviously we don't make fun of covid.
Speaker 1:It just just happened to be real convenient as a way to get him out of the race.
Speaker 2:Wasn't the whole COVID thing really convenient? Come on, josh, stay on task. I digress.
Speaker 1:So if he drops out two years earlier, if he resigns two years earlier, I think they have a better shot with her as the incumbent. However, I still don't think that she wins, largely because of all the other things that we talked about. But if she drops out which is number one among that is that she's a California Democrat. But if she drops out and you bring in a viable woman candidate, you have a chance. You Democrats have a very real chance to get across the finish line. John, all I do, all I do is electoral college math. I don't talk about down ballot, I don't talk about what's going on in your state or your state, because you 45 states are all set, these five states right here pennsylvania, wisconsin, michigan, uh, and, to a lesser extent, arizona, nevada. You guys are going to decide it and I know that people like what about north arizona?
Speaker 2:just only came into play in the 2020 election really, exactly, exactly so.
Speaker 1:Really, it was all about those three states. If we're being completely honest Yep, if we're being completely honest and that's one of the things that I struggle when I'm having conversations and debates with the left and with Democrats, with dyed-in-the-wool Democrats, conversations and debates with the left and with Democrats, with dyed-in-the-wool Democrats is this denial that they're in that they have to say, well, no, you're a hater, you're a misogynist, you're a racist, you're an elitist, you're all these things not? Oh well, everything that you said was accurate, because it kind of turned out that way. There's no admission of we were wrong. What they're saying is that we need to do better at being wrong, and I'm like that. To me is just this whole. When you and I talk about masculinity, for example, neither of us. We love families. We want people to be who they want to be, all the things but we want men to be allowed to be men and not have to be made to feel badly about being masculine.
Speaker 2:Right, here's the way they say that they are wrong. They're not like hey wrong, let's change that. They're just like I, wasn't, 100% right.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:And I think that's part of the problem. I mean so and I think that's part of the problem, and we've been. We've been beating this drum, because you said you've been on this kick now for you know a few weeks about, about what's going to help the Democratic Party. I hope the Democratic Party stays right where it's at, because I don't know if we ever need to elect another Democrat, at least not till we get some of this shit fixed and they've proven to not fix stuff. It fixed and they've proven to not fix stuff.
Speaker 2:You know you can say whatever you want about the last four years and how the economy is better than it's ever been, and I just showed you evidence this morning that if you follow like we were talking about the other day if you follow the money and who was printing the money and how the money got pushed into this economy, that's the only reason why this economy didn't tank over the last four years and and it had a lot to do with covid and it had a lot to do with the democratic party you know, just dumping money into all of this outlandish shit and you just can't keep doing that. You can't just keep spending money. You know what I mean me and you as american citizens. We can't just spend. At some point you have to earn money, you have to make money and you have to save money, especially if you have a spending problem like the American government has.
Speaker 1:So I want to get back to her real quick. I want to say that I don't disagree that misogyny does play a role, but it's not just misogyny, it's inefficiency and misogyny. Women can win in the US, yeah, but they gotta be undeniable.
Speaker 2:There's governors and all kinds of shit.
Speaker 1:Women can win, but Hillary wasn't it. The one thing, the one factor that they would not listen on when they made this coronation, basically, of her as the nominee, was that she was so hated and none of their polls, none of their polls tested for that, and I think that was something that was certainly a miscalculation of epic proportions back then. Same thing with Kamala. With Kamala, there is baggage there, and the fact that you're a California Democrat means that anything that we say negatively or associate negatively with California gets attached to you. That's just reality. Now we can say that, well, reality isn't fair. Okay, well, fair or not, reality is what it is.
Speaker 1:You know you as a Democrat talking to the audience, not yourself, john Mack. They claim that they want diversity but then refuse to strategically back competent candidates. We've seen that. And then when they lose, they blame the voter, not what they did wrong. They're like oh, you didn't vote for her or you didn't support her hard enough. Therefore, it's your fault. I'm like you picked a bad horse and I told you that you had a bad horse, even though you had a good horse right over there. She was right there.
Speaker 2:Did either one of these women earn their position?
Speaker 1:In the case of Hillary, they're going to tell you that she did and I'm going to say well, I'm going to say that there are people who are going to say, when her history is written, they're going to tell you that hillary rodham made bill clinton. They're gonna, they're gonna, they're gonna die on that hill. Now I'm not going to sit here and deny that she was an intelligent woman. I won't do that. But my issue with Hillary was always there was a certain ruthlessness that I right or wrong attached to her that I could not get away from. Now they can say, nah, you're just fed. You were fed and you consumed a steady diet of what is a quote unquote right wing smear campaign for 30 years and I'm like.
Speaker 1:well, that's not really true, because the one thing that I blame her for is something that no one else stands on, and I stand on it alone, and I'm happy to do so, and that's the one reason that I never, ever, would have supported her candidacy, whether it's for Senate or for President. That's me, you guys have your own well, I believe that she was responsible or involved in the death of JFK Jr and I've never never, ever been able to forget that.
Speaker 2:I'm not saying you're wrong, I just wanted to hear you say it.
Speaker 1:I think the world looks entirely different if he's still alive. He was.
Speaker 1:Yep, I think the world, I think the Democratic Party isn't where it is, if he's still alive it's crazy because like back then when I first became a jfk jr fan and we won't go this right now but I was a republican and uh, I started listening to him and kind of reading some of the stuff that he was saying and just sort of like observing his moves, you know, in public, and I was like this is a democrat that I like this guy's's pretty cool.
Speaker 2:And then he was gone.
Speaker 1:So you know there is a certain. Getting back to the misogyny point, American misogyny is a little bit different, in that there's sexism, there's individualism, and then there's Puritanism, and then there's like Puritanism like our Puritan, you know sort of roots factor into it a bit. Women are supposed to do these things, not these other things, so there is a lot of that there, but back in 2020, amy Klobuchar was running for president, and I thought that she gave them a chance on the basis of being a Midwesterner. I thought that that was something that made her a viable candidate when she ran. She didn't poll well nationally, but I thought that she would have done extremely well there in the Midwest, coming out of Minnesota. The thing about her, though, was that she's very short. She's almost I don't want to call her a little person, but she's very, very short. I'm serious.
Speaker 2:Her baby's so white.
Speaker 1:That's funny, but super nice. I liked listening to her stories. You know she's only 5'2. I'm sorry she's like my wife actually she's.
Speaker 1:They say she's actually taller than Harris, but either way she's very, very short. But she's a good storyteller and I thought that her story would resonate well with Americans. What do we say is that the Democrats that have pinned their hopes to this sort of sunbelt pathway, to 270, I think it's laughable almost in that that's your base. Those blue-collar Dems in the Union States, pennsylvania, michigan, wisconsin, minnesota, those are your people, man, those are the ones who've been there with you.
Speaker 2:I don't know if there are such thing as blue collar democrats anymore it's almost like they try to chase them away, huh well, and I think that's, I think that's why the what we were just talking about political lines, right, I think a lot of that's changing. Okay, and I think that might be part of the problem, and you can call it misogyny if you want. But if you run off any masculine Democrat because they're out there, you're, you, you're fairly masculine, you're Democrat. You know what I mean. Like, if you start running people like you off, then, then what you know, you know, where you get to go.
Speaker 2:You're going to start. You're going to the other side. You're going to start voting for common sense. So you can call it misogyny, you can call it race, you can call it whatever you want, but the reality is is the Democrats did this to themselves.
Speaker 2:You nailed it right there and maybe the woman that you're talking about, maybe she's 100% right. Maybe there never will be a Democratic woman of color as president. Maybe there won't be, but that's not to say that there won't be a republican woman of color as president, and then they won't be able to say the shit that they're saying right now about it. They'll have to find a different drum to beat, because they will have everything that they wanted. It just won't have a D next to its name.
Speaker 1:John. That's a strong point. Hey, let's uh, let's call it what it is, man. The Democrats had every opportunity to make history here. They could have had a strong, winning female candidate, but they fumbled it badly. You know, between Biden's decline. It was so obvious. I mean, when he began acting and showing these things, these signs, back in 21, 22, that was the time for him to step down. Let Kamala be president, you get the check the box off. You always have that note in the history books.
Speaker 1:Hey, democrats had the first female president, but instead they didn't make the smart move then. And then, obviously, once it became time for campaign 2024, they let Biden run again. They didn't just drag him into a room and say you need to sit this one out, put Gretchen in, okay, but instead they want to blame the voters for their own cowardice and incompetence. And let's be real. Let's be real. America doesn't have a problem with women in power. It's a problem with the kind of women that Democrats keep putting forward. Women can win, but it's not going to be through blind identity politics. If it was pure misogyny, gretchen would not be as popular as she is in Michigan. The real problem is that the party refuses to back competent women when it matters most. So all I got to say. That's what I'm going to leave us for right now. Thank you, john, for your wonderful perspective.
Speaker 2:Hold on. I have one more thing to say.
Speaker 1:Oh, go ahead, buddy.
Speaker 2:Hey, so we talked a little bit about this off air. And what if the Democrats ran a trans woman? Democrats ran a trans woman, john Right. Oh gosh, I'm just saying, would they have the same feelings about that? Because they're really just electing a man, but they would call it a woman. So that's something that the Democrats also need to think about, because would that also be misogyny? Just food for thought for your friend, everyone.
Speaker 1:We thank you as always, for tuning in to Whiskey and Donuts, john. Thanks again. My friend, take care and you guys have a great day now you.