Whiskey & Donuts
Whiskey & Donuts is where sharp analysis - and maybe a shot or two of speculation - meets unfiltered conversation, tackling politics, culture, and the issues that matter with a mix of logic, humor, and straight talk. No echo chambers, no nonsense -just real discussions with a side of wit and a strong pour of common sense.
Whiskey & Donuts
Sword Fight At A Sword Fight
A female athlete's silent protest against competing with a transgender fencer ignites passionate debate about the intersection of women's sports, transgender rights, and athletic integrity. Hosts Tré Scott and John Mack examine how this controversial issue challenges liberal principles and traditional sports categories.
• Female fencer Stephanie Turner was disqualified for refusing to compete against a transgender woman
• USA Fencing policy allows athletes to participate in a manner consistent with their gender identity
• The scientific differences between male and female athletes create legitimate competitive concerns
• Both hosts question why more liberals aren't concerned about potential setbacks to women's sports progress
• Turner's protest was silent and dignified, not disruptive or attention-seeking
• The tension between competing progressive values creates uncomfortable positions for liberals
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Hello again, everyone, and welcome to another edition of Whiskey and Donuts. I am your host, trey Scott, here with my always entertaining co-host, john Mack. How's it going, guys? So, john, how's everything going over there with you, man? Everything good.
Speaker 2:Everything's good we're. You know same story we're always working.
Speaker 1:Always working, trying to get things done. Man, these podcast bills ain't going to pay themselves, right. No for sure not.
Speaker 2:Podcasting ain't gonna pay themselves, right? No for sure not. Podcasting ain't easy. It's a lot more work. It's like a, it's like another job is what? What we're kind of finding out right we had no idea.
Speaker 1:We literally had no idea. Uh. So respect, mad respect, to all the podcasters out there. Now that we've uh joined the ranks of official podcasters, we can certainly appreciate the labor.
Speaker 2:Here's something that is kind of cool about podcasting is me and you talk more now than ever we do. We talk on a daily basis, which is cool because we've never talked on a daily basis before Now. We are like every day in Something's being said, which is good for a friendship, I guess, right.
Speaker 1:Kind of cool man. Kind of cool, I have to agree. So, john, I would be remiss if I didn't. I don't know how much you've been following the news lately, but have you heard anything about the fencer, the woman fencer, who protested having to fence versus a trans woman fencer? Are you aware of that story at all?
Speaker 2:I was not aware of that story until this morning when you sent it to me. So yeah, that's the extent of it. I watched the clip so I'm aware that the lady, the young lady, protested having to fence a male in fencing.
Speaker 1:You know I got to say you know I love talking women's sports always have. You know I got to say you know I love talking women's sports always have. So you know you out there in podcast land, if you're imagining swords and honor, you know you might want to. You might not be ready for what went down in College Park, maryland, this past weekend. A female athlete, stephanie Turner, was disqualified for refusing to compete against a trans-identifying biological male.
Speaker 1:But now, before we weigh in, let's be fair and start with their words, not ours. And that's from USA Fencing their official policy on transgender and non-binary athletes. This is a bridge, but straight from the source. Non-binary athletes this is a bridge, but straight from the source is athletes are permitted to participate in USA fencing sanctioned events in a manner consistent with their gender identity or expression, regardless of the gender associated with the sex they were assigned at birth. Participation is guided by appropriate age division rules. That's the foundation. Now let's unpack it. Man, I have to say and I don't want to get too political too quickly, because that's a little unfair, but for me I want to get it on the record that I think this is the wrong hill to continue to die on for liberals Absolutely, oh yeah, for sure, absolutely, for sure.
Speaker 2:I think, I think they need to. I think they need to distance themselves from this because it's, it's so, it's so, it's so, it's. It's crazy, it's crazy how complicated it is. Me and my sister-in-law we're just talking about the transgender thing. Uh, over this weekend I'd gone up to reading to see her and here's the reality of transgender. I think they make up like, I mean, this might be too much, but like one percent of not even the whole community of people, but like one percent of the gay lesbian community. So it's a very small percentage of people because in reality, the gay lesbian community is it is a very small community of people in a whole compared to how many people we have in the United States. So you're, really you're. I mean I'm not saying that these people don't have rights. I think everybody's rights should be protected, but man, it's a tough, it's an uphill battle for them, because there's a lot of people that are just sick and tired of this shit.
Speaker 1:So what's interesting about this case? And for people who don't know what's going on, let's see if we can give you a quick sort of recap on what happened. This was at the Cherry Blossom Open in College Park, go Terps. Stephanie Turner was scheduled to face Redmond Sullivan in the women's division, but when the match was called, turner didn't step forward Right Away to Start the Competition. She instead knelt and then removed her mask. It was a silent protest and she refused to participate. The official came over, she explained her position and was issued a black card.
Speaker 1:Now I want to say that when listening to Ms Turner tell her version, the other competitor came over first and asked her what was up, and Stephanie said well, I'm not going to compete against you because you know you're a man. And the other athlete said well, according to policy, I can compete here, all the things, and they're going to give you a black card. You know that right. And she's like yeah, this official did come over and give her the black card, which meant that she was disqualified from the competition entirely, and she said that I'm not going to compete against a male in a women's event.
Speaker 1:It's unfair and it violates the integrity of the sport. And so then USA Fencing, of course, comes in and says that she was disqualified, not for her views. Usa Fencing, the governing body, said she was disqualified for refusing to fence a properly registered opponent under the current rules.
Speaker 2:Right. So that's what I was just going to say. So they gave her the block card and I guess that's a pretty big deal, especially if you're trying to build I don't know what kind of career you're going to build in fencing. It's not like there's professional sword fighters out there on the on the battlefields, but whatever. Um, you know, in a sport, if you're going to progress to the highest point of that sport, I I guess that's a, it's a big deal, right. Like that's like getting, uh, if you were like in in football and you got, say, in trouble for targeting quarterbacks or whatever you know, like they had the bounties on quarterbacks for a while and then you got fined for that, and then you keep doing it, they like suspend you for games. You know what I mean. So that's kind of at the level where she's at, they kind of disqualified her over, basically saying, uh, I don't want to fence a boy. That's what it boils down to.
Speaker 1:What's interesting about fencing is that it's one of those sports where there are a lot of I mean, I guess in a lot of sports there's, you know, co-ed competition, training et cetera, and so you do see that in fencing. But once you get into the competitive levels it's typically going to be sex segregated and that's what we have here. And, as a liberal, where I struggle is in listening. I'm not sure how much of that one clip you were able to hear, but to hear one of the hosts passionately state this is intended to set back decades of progress for women in sports, right?
Speaker 2:And I. Why isn't that?
Speaker 1:appreciated by the left. I don't understand that right.
Speaker 2:Well, we've been saying that for a minute, you know. We've been saying like women have fought hard to to have the rights that they have and be where they're at, and to have a man come in and take that from her, pretending to be a woman. Women should be outraged by that, in my opinion. Now, if women aren't, whatever women can do whatever they want. I'm not telling them, but if I were a woman, I would be like that's some bullshit that men are coming into women's sports. Listen. Why aren't these men?
Speaker 2:Even if you want to pretend to be a woman, why aren't you just going and fencing men? Is it because you're not good enough is? Is that the problem? Because if that's the problem, then you shouldn't be fencing men? Is it because you're not good enough is? Is that the problem because if that's the problem, then you shouldn't be fencing at all. Go, pick up another thing. Go, you know. Do whatever it is that you're capable of doing. But why are you trying to ruin things for women makes no sense to me, especially if you are are a a liberal person at heart. You should, according to all of your guys's bylaws, be supporting women's rights.
Speaker 1:I have to say, man, um, you know, at the competitive level, fencing is divided for a reason, and it's because strength and reach and reaction time are things that matter. In the case of Ms Turner, she didn't throw a tantrum, she didn't yell at anyone or try to make a scene, she didn't try to call attention to anything. She simply took a knee and removed her helmet there, her mask. But she has been on the circuit a little bit, there's been some interviews and she says that she's not going to pretend, basically that identity and biology are interchangeable in women's sport. And that's the part where, as a liberal with a scientific background, uh, I really struggle for people not to appreciate that difference on the left. I mean, you can, if you want to be a liberal, and say, well, the only reason conservatives are saying that is because they're bigots. I'm like, wait, we handed them the science. Okay, like it said, this is male, this is female.
Speaker 2:Shouldn't you be able to feel and believe whatever you want to believe? That's what they're saying.
Speaker 1:Well, john, there's a thing, there's a movement.
Speaker 2:Now they're saying I believe I'm a woman. So if you believe you're a woman, it doesn't mean I have to believe it. You can't force me to believe what you believe.
Speaker 1:Just like I can't force you to believe what I believe Absolutely, I believe in God I can't force you to believe in God. You know, right now there's actually a movement, and I don't want to get too far away because I go down them rabbit holes, boy, there's a movement now, where there are a set of liberals who don't want anyone assigned a sex at birth, they're saying that's the crime.
Speaker 1:The original crime is in the hospital, like whoa. So we'll hit that one later, but I have to say that I thought that her protest was appropriate. Someone I picked up said that well, she misgendered the other athlete. I'm like, okay, whoa, let's just get rid of that term altogether. Let's get rid of that term. Okay, let's get rid of that term. Uh, but USA fencing says that she broke their rules, and maybe she did, but maybe, as we've talked about before, the rule is the problem. You don't have to agree with her, but if we're at a place you know where, silence and protest get you disqualified while the conversation is off limits, that's really not inclusion at all, man, that's erasure. That's erasure.
Speaker 2:I mean, we both kind of stand on the same side of this, but I guess, if you kind of look at it in a different light, didn't they just Colin Kaepernick her right? It's kind of what the right did to Colin Kaepernick when he quietly protested, isn't it? So I guess it's kind of fair. Even though I think she's right, I believe in what she's standing on, and if she feels like, hey, I'm not going to do this and she's willing to take the penalty for it, she takes the penalty, she moves on.
Speaker 1:Right on. You know what I mean, yeah.
Speaker 2:It's her choice to make. It's not our choice to make for her. If that's something she's, if that's something she's willing to say no, I'm not going to do that Then she doesn't have to and people can be offended by it.
Speaker 1:We'll leave it there for now, but but trust me, this is probably not the last time we're going to be talking about women's sports on this show. We had just the women's NCAA championships the other night. Congratulations to Yukon and Paige Beckers. We can cover that later, but just want to throw that shout out to Paige and her team. Uconn Huskies were brilliant, all tournament, Strong Fudd, all of them. That was just a great, great performance there on Sunday. Thank you.