Phil Gusmano: Leading Better Made, Shaping the Snack Industry

Phil Gusmano is the Vice President of Better Made, one of Detroit’s most iconic and enduring snack brands. With nearly three decades at the company, he has played a key role in driving operations, preserving its rich heritage, and supporting continued growth in a competitive industry.

In addition to his leadership at Better Made, Gusmano was elected Chairman of SNAC International, formerly known as the Snack Food Association. In this role, he works closely with staff and industry leaders to address legislative challenges, develop programs that bring value to members, and help expand the organization’s reach.

A longtime advocate for the snack food industry, Gusmano has been actively involved with SNAC for more than 23 years. His combined experience, industry insight, and commitment to excellence have made him a respected leader both within Better Made and across the broader snack food community.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

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SPEAKER_01 0:53

My pleasure. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_00 0:54

This is big time. I'm really this was really cool. You know, I I love the story of a hundred-year company based in Detroit. Your grandfather was one of the co-founders, and you've been with the company for 29 years. Got it. So love to hear your story and hear about the company's history. I don't want to tell it for you.

SPEAKER_01 1:10

Sure. So we've been in business since the 1930s, so we're actually hitting our night. We just had celebrated 95 years. The 100th is coming up in about four years. Got some uh big plans for that, but that's a few years away. That's amazing. So we've been a city of Detroit staple since our inception. We have been in Detroit since the since day one, and we've been at our current location since the early 1940s, and right here on Gravit, not too far from City Airport. And uh we're a proud Detroit company.

SPEAKER_00 1:42

I think it's amazing when I looked up, you know, the history is that there were 22 chipmakers in Met in Detroit when when Better Made first came out, and the deferentation strategy was we're gonna call ourselves Better Made. And while the other ones fell by the wayside, here you guys are almost a century later. You know, it's a testament to your customer base, the customer service you provide, and the quality of the products that you have.

SPEAKER_01 2:03

Well, we'll appreciate the the sentiment. You know, we we just try to be a good steward of what we've been given, right? And so we we try to give our customers a good product at a fair price, and and you know, we think that we succeed. Uh you know, we have a wide variety of uh of snacks that appeal to a wide variety of people, and we're pretty proud of what we do. And uh, you know, I will say what really helps us out is the great employees that we have. Uh, we have a lot of people that have been dedicated and many, many years of experience going on in the facility.

SPEAKER_00 2:41

What's amazing is, and that's fantastic, and I'm sure you have a lot of long-term employees well, too, you know, because it's reciprocated from a company that's you know based in Detroit, and they're you know, obviously local talent and local individuals who are very dedicated to the service and quality of products you provide. I've always been fascinated by how things are made and created. So, what goes on into what comes to market for a viable chip? Like, you know, like test tasting, um, you know, brand awareness. You know, sometimes they hit, sometimes they miss, just like any other brand that ever exists. But what is your process like?

SPEAKER_01 3:12

So we start with we try first off, we start with as much local uh components as we can, right? Pretty much all of our potatoes come from the state of Michigan. A lot of our seasoning is is made in the state of Michigan, our corrugated, um, and that kind of goes to the local flair that we have, right? And so that you know, it's kind of a little bit off track, but it's part of our local story, right? We're a local company that buys local so that those dollars keep turning in Michigan's economy.

SPEAKER_00 3:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:43

And so when you're buying BetterMade, you're supporting not only BetterMade, but you're supporting the the farmer that grew those potatoes in Michigan. You're form you know, supporting the the seasoning company that's right down the street from us, too. And so there's there's all those options. Sorry.

SPEAKER_00 4:00

You're fine.

SPEAKER_01 4:03

Didn't answer the question. Tell me again.

SPEAKER_00 4:05

Well, like what's the process to bring a product to market? That's what I was, you know.

SPEAKER_01 4:08

So we take uh some great raw potatoes, turn them into chips. It's seven minutes from raw potato to uh to in a finished bag. And so we we develop different flavors, and you know, the flavors that we come up with they come from all over different places. We sometimes we have employees that will say, Hey, you should try this. We have some some of our seasoning companies that will come up with different things, and they will say, Uh, you know, here, this is what's hot, this is what's going on, and uh so we we do try those kind of things, and so really we're we're looking at all different options and where we might look for uh to to come up with ideas. So no one, no one is better than the other. If someone comes with a great idea, we'll use it.

SPEAKER_00 4:57

It's funny because you have to you got something in mind? No, I don't in particular because you know I'm you know, I I love my I'm a barbecue guy, so I love barbecue chips. I'm not exceptionally picky, and I love your guys' barbecue chicks too chips too, because they have a really good tangy taste to them, you know, like it's got like that that good aftertaste after you ate them. And I sure I always find it fascinating because you can't trace chase trends, but at the same time you have to be innovative. But at the same time, you also have to be going where the customer taste is going. So it's it's such a strat of a line, you know, you know, of putting a bunch of product to market, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 5:30

Well, I think you definitely have to be uh cognizant of where you came from, right? And what and what got you? Absolutely. And so, like you said, you know, better-made barbecue, better-made hot barbecue, those those are things that have been around longer than I have. And you know, people people love it. And people get really passionate about their chips and their favorite flavors, you know.

SPEAKER_00 5:51

Yeah, they really, they truly do. I know, man. Like I said, I'm a big fan of those barbecue ones, man. They're they're really tasty. Unfortunately, you know, you look at one bag, you're like, listen, man, I'm gonna crush three of them, and I'm gonna wear it. I don't care. It's not, you know, that's just the truth. Because it it it's it's a small bag because you think you can just contain yourself, but then you look at the other ones subsequent with it, you're like, man, I'm just gonna dog them. I don't care, man.

SPEAKER_01 6:11

You know. I'm a big fan of moderation.

SPEAKER_00 6:14

So uh three bags is your moderate, go for it. I I appreciate that. I appreciate it. So you're also the vice president of Snack International, which I found very fascinating, and you're the chairman of that organization, which is for those that aren't listening, you know, the the group that is the trade association for the snack food industry.

SPEAKER_01 6:34

Yeah, so I am actually the chairman of the chairman of the board there. Uh been in that position for about nine months. Uh Snack International is an association that uh helps all snack manufacturers, both domestically and internationally, to navigate uh larger issues that come up. And so uh it's been an honor to be able to serve on as uh a board member and uh to help uh drive direction for uh you know the snacking industry.

SPEAKER_00 7:07

Absolutely. You know, and so you know what's what's you know what's what's great about the snack industry obviously is that you know they do need advocacy because it is a staple of a lot of people's you know households and things of that nature, and it breaks down misconceptions about certain products and processes, you know, that could that could people could say certain things about certain foods, when in reality it's a very heavily massive industry in the United States, it it creates thousands of jobs, it you know, it's the staple of a lot of communities. So when it comes to better made specifically, obviously it's Detroit based, but you guys are in 14 different states. What's the challenge that you guys have out of state with with being a viable competitor in a place like maybe Ohio may not be a good example, but other places?

SPEAKER_01 7:49

Sure. Well, I I think really what it comes down to is the same principles that we have here in our metro Detroit area, we try and apply, you know, wherever we're trying to sell our chips, and it really that's giving the customer a good quality product at a fair price. And so I think you know, if if we can get you to try a bag once, you'll come back because it is good quality. And you're not we're not asking you to pay an arm and a leg for a bag of chip. Yeah, no question.

SPEAKER_00 8:14

So, yeah, that definitely that definitely helps, right? So, you know, at the end of the day, and you know, it's a convenience product for a lot of people, but you know, it's also that you know people buy large items of them when they do like them, especially you know, for events and and you know, get togethers and family and family events as well as things like that. So when it comes to that you're the trade association, and you and does how broad uh and it's like 400 different companies that are that I saw are uh actually part of the snack association. So did you we were you with them before you were the chairman?

SPEAKER_01 8:43

Yeah, so BetterMade itself is a member of the Snack International, and so uh members make up both the board and the board of directors, and so uh, you know, as part of part of uh any association usually has a board made up of members, and so yeah, I've been in actively involved uh in our association for gosh, almost as long as I've been here at Better.

SPEAKER_00 9:09

That's amazing. So when you started 29 years ago, what was your first level like position with the company?

SPEAKER_01 9:15

And you know, started in the warehouse pulling orders.

SPEAKER_00 9:18

Nice, nice, like nice, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:21

It was it's uh, you know, they had me had me picking orders and uh that's beautiful. Done pretty much every job there is to do here from picking orders to uh frying chips, working uh accounts payable and sales, you name it.

SPEAKER_00 9:37

Absolutely, absolutely. So, how does how does that process involve when you need to get to the front of the shelf for your, you know, I'm not asking you to obviously give any proprietary details, but you know, to stay competitive, you know, the chip market is a very, very large competitive market, you know, some with you know national brands, you know, that that are the free to lays of the world. You know, so when you ask for to be you know at the front of the customer experience, you know, at a grocery store with all the options that people have in front of them, what's that process like?

SPEAKER_01 10:06

So, you know, we uh really work hard to be available to all of our customers wherever they may be looking for us. And so, you know, we work with you know the national retailers and you know, and then the mid-size and then even the small mom and pops. And so you can find Bettermade in a huge variety of stores, you know, from a local mom and pop in in you know rural America in rural Michigan, uh, you know, all the way through to you know some of the big supermarket chains. And so we do try and be available. Uh so when you go into the store and you're looking for your favorite snack, they're there.

SPEAKER_00 10:45

Absolutely. And you know what's funny is that for people who are listening who've always asked, like, why is there so much air in a bag? Well, there's a scientific reason behind it. Like, you know, like you know, it took a while as a kid to be like, why is there air in a bag? Because in your mind, you're like, this should be totally pulled to the top. But it actually would it's actually keeping the chips from getting stale, right?

SPEAKER_01 11:03

It's actually preserving So there's there's a there's actually a couple of reasons that go but go into why is there so much air in the bag, right? And so I can give you the the I'll give you the short version because if I you we don't have enough time in the day to go through it. But one one is the the air in a bag, which we actually nitrogen flush ours, so that takes oxygen out, and it helps to to ensure that you get a quality product. Um, but that that bag has that build to help protect the chips, right? So if it was too flat or too small, the chips would be all broken. And yeah, people like to joke they're all broken anyhow, but I can't when they leave this facility, they're in good shape. I can't control what you how you put them in your cart and how you take them home, right? So that that's one thing. The other thing is if you take a look at a potato, potatoes don't come all in the same size, right? You may have one the size of a golf ball, you may have one the size of a tennis ball, and you may have one the size of a greatness. So when you're putting that into a bag of chips, you have to be able to aware that certain size potatoes fit into a bag to make up that weight. And so you have to actually size a bag of chips for the worst case scenario, really big chips, right? And so it think about it. If I get you know one ounce of really big chips versus one ounce of chips that are that big, it the it looks different in that bag.

SPEAKER_00 12:33

Yes, it does. Yes, it does. Yeah, so you know, it's uh it's and you know, it's the science behind it in the packaging, even when you said like nitrogen, right? Like the average person isn't really thinking uh, you know, of the breadth and depth of what it takes to actually package fresh food. You know, I've watched like the history of you know, uh the history of food on the uh uh you know, food in America on the History Channel or the Food Network or something like that. And like the levels that they have gone past to where it was, you know, hey, if you didn't make it in in the three hours before you it was served to somebody, preserving food for people who aren't listening is really uh a most recent concept to where it used to be because it used to be poisonous, it used to have a lot of bad things that happen to people. And as science came in and preserving food came in, it's able to last on a shelf for for time to still be fresh for people to consume it. There's a lot of safety involved. Sure.

SPEAKER_01 13:24

So I would say we don't necessarily put preservatives into our into our food. Oh no. And so if you look at a bag of chips, a bag of original chips is potatoes, oil, and salt, right? And so you look at really the one of the biggest factors you have in food spoiling is moisture, right? And so the way we cook our food, the way we cook our chips, it's a very low moisture finished product. And so naturally you're able to uh extend the life of that product just by cooking. Wonderful.

SPEAKER_00 13:59

Do you uh do you and do you all ever expand outside of just chips you know, in your in the in the offerings that you have as far as uh sure?

SPEAKER_01 14:08

We we're a full full-fledged snack company, you know. We have potato chips, we have popcorn, potato sticks, some delicious tortilla chips, uh pretzels, pork rinds. I mean, you name it. If there, if there's a snack, you know, we're gonna try and put it out there and make our customers happy.

SPEAKER_00 14:26

That's you know, that's fantastic. You know, I've I've been so consumed with just eating your guys' chips, so I'll have to make sure that I I look at the other product offerings as well, too, to see what you guys have. You know, I've seen your chips all the time, right? And I've probably eaten other snacks and didn't even think that that was yours when the time that I was consuming it. But I've you know I've been so fascinated with trying to touch base on the show with Detroit-based companies, and you guys have been around for so long. And what what I also thought was was very fascinating is is the ability of the actual chipmaking process, right? Like, you know, how do you guys source like a viable vendor of who's actually supplying you guys potatoes? Because you say that they're Michigan-based, but you obviously have to have some quality systems in place, you know, of who can of the quality control. Sure.

SPEAKER_01 15:09

So a lot of what we do is really relationship-based, right? We're a family-owned company and we deal with a lot with family, family farms. And so a lot of the a lot of the suppliers that we have, we've been doing business with for 60, you know, 70 years, three, four generations. So there's an understanding of what kind of quality that we need. And so that that being provided to us is really not even a question of you know how, but it's just an expectation, right? They know what we need and and they're willing to accommodate us to make sure that our customers get a good quality product. You'd be amazed at how many growers actually take pride in selling uh you know Michigan potatoes to a Michigan-based processing facility. You know, they get excited when we send them bags of chips and say, hey, your potatoes are in this bag. That that you you could you could see people like they go, wow, I I this was in my field, and now this is in my mouth. You know, and so it it it's it's a really great uh you know, circle to bring uh you know 360 degrees and say, look, you made you grew this and you're eating the fruits of your labor. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 16:22

Do you find that, you know, and and that's a wonderful story too. Do you find that there are certain peak times where people are purchasing chips more? I have to imagine, you know, once like particularly Memorial Weekend's coming up, you know, like you guys are planning ahead three and four months of when seasons are hitting, you know, summer's gonna be gangbusters for potato chips, right?

SPEAKER_01 16:41

Sure. So here's a fun fact about a real uh, you know, I'm gonna I'm gonna give you like insight into one of the busiest holidays, and you'll never guess it. Like you could guess it.

SPEAKER_00 16:51

Really? Like Valentine's Day? No. It's not a holiday, right? So uh let me let me try this again. Is it Thanksgiving?

SPEAKER_01 16:58

No. So it is, believe it or not, Mother's Day. Are you serious? Yeah, Mother's Day. All right, think about it, right? Mother's Day rolls around, it's starting to get a little bit warm. And and you're gonna go cook for your mom. But because it's getting warm, you're gonna have a barbecue. And what goes good with a barbecue, right? You gotta have your chips.

SPEAKER_00 17:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:19

So the the the Mother's Day phenomenon is a real thing, right? You know, people people, the the the husbands, the fathers, and you know, the kids, hey, let's barbecue for mom. Let's have some chips.

SPEAKER_00 17:33

Yeah, and then they have company over, and then if they have siblings or kids, etc., it just becomes a lucky thing. Oh, yeah. I didn't even, you know, that was never on my mind, actually, because the first thing I would have thought was like, you know, I was thinking 4th of July, and then you know, label day.

SPEAKER_01 17:45

Sure, great, it's a great holiday. We sell a ton, we sell a ton on 4th of July. We sell a ton in a lot of the holidays, but the Mother's Day phenomenon is real.

SPEAKER_00 17:54

That's awesome. That's sensational.

SPEAKER_01 17:56

You gotta love your mind.

SPEAKER_00 17:57

Oh, for sure. You know, the you know, the other thing about it is that it's funny because it it'll creep up on you. You like you'll see the notification on your phone, and you're like, oh my gosh, this thing's like you know, 10 days out. Like, I gotta suddenly start scrambling here, right? Because it's it's log jammed, and I say this respectfully because I love my mother, between Easter and and Memorial, and then you'll find out like the second week, because that's when movies really start coming out, too, right? That's the start of the summer blockbuster season, so to speak, too. Yeah, so it I guess that makes a lot of sense, right? It's like people's mind and school is getting over, etc. So um what can what can people for this show, because you guys are so successful, and I certainly want to be respectful of your time. What can people know about Phil Kuzmano, your history, your background, and better made brands?

SPEAKER_01 18:42

Well, uh, my background is first and foremost, I love Jesus. He is my savior. So I I give all the glory to him. Um I I try and treat people the way that I would like to be treated, and so I try to be as fair as possible. Um my word is my bond, and I am more than willing to you know work with people to come to common goals. And so uh I definitely think it's important to treat people right, and you give them the time of day, and you be respectful, and you just look it that that's just a universal thing, right? Part of the reason why I'm happy to talk to you is I had the time, yeah. And you know, give give people the time of day, be respectful. If you teach somebody anything, right, is if they can go on and be respectful and teach other people the same, right? You know, that we're we're better, we're better off.

SPEAKER_00 19:33

It's not exactly a foreign concept, it's not really difficult, right? Like, you know, it's right, you know, to be a halfway.

SPEAKER_01 19:38

Well, you some people don't subscribe to that point of view.

SPEAKER_00 19:42

But yeah, there's no question.

SPEAKER_01 19:44

That's that's I I I really what it comes down to is I I want you to feel when we get done with this conversation that I have a respect for you and that I appreciate who you are and what you certainly and so you you you just treat people that way, and uh it works.

SPEAKER_00 20:02

It certainly it certainly goes both ways because you know I sent the email and then I got an email back from a member of your team. And you know, you do like a double take, you know, and you guys are, like I said, an exceptionally large company, local, and you certainly didn't have to reply back to my inquiry. And you know, um I'm certainly not here to you know uh waste anybody's time, so I'm glad that there were some valuable insights into your company and what you do in your history, and you're willing to share it with the show.

SPEAKER_01 20:25

Yeah, it's my pleasure. Um, I appreciate you know what you do, do it well, and uh you know, if I can help you out, someday you'll be able to help somebody else out.

SPEAKER_00 20:35

So that that's all that's what the world is all about. So I want to take time out for Phil Guzmano, Better Made Brands, and you know, he's they're local based. If you've seen you've seen their brands, trust me, ladies and gentlemen. You've driven you've had it in your car, you fed it to your kids, it's had your barbecues, all sorts of variety of snacks, but especially the chips. So this is Rashad Woods, and it really means a lot to me that a local Michigan Detroit-based company is willing to take time out on my show, and I'm honored that you did so.

SPEAKER_01 20:59

Rashad, it's been a pleasure, and make sure you remember your mom on Mother's Day.

SPEAKER_00 21:02

She's listened, she listens to every episode, so now I definitely can't forget. So thank you.

SPEAKER_01 21:07

There you go. Bag of chips for mine.

SPEAKER_00 21:08

I promise you that, sir. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you. That was thank you very much for your time. It'll be yeah, I'll send you the link. I'll send it to your team. It's on every major it'll I'm on all the major podcasts and platforms as well. Yes. That is so that is amazing, and I really appreciate it. I'll I'll make sure I actually do that before when I get off, actually. Thank you, sir. Appreciate you.