Ep. 57 - From Service to Science with Jose Rojas: Part 1

We sat down with Jose Rojas, a Marine Corps veteran, exercise science professor, and longtime friend of the show. The conversation started with his decision to join the Marines, what boot camp and deployments were actually like, and the difference between what people imagine combat to be and what it really feels like. We also talked about stress, leadership in war, how soldiers process violence, and why those experiences can completely change the way you handle everyday problems back home. Jose also shared the path that took him from infantry to becoming a researcher and professor in exercise science. This is part one of our conversation, and it sets the stage for part two where we get deeper into the science behind training, performance, and health.

Contact Daniel and Janie:
Email: info@achievethelifestyle.com
Website: achievethelifestyle.com
Instagram: @achievethelifestyle

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Pharmaphobic is powered by Achieve the Lifestyle, a company dedicated to helping you empower your health, redefine your lifestyle, and all for the health of it. You're listening to Pharmaphobic, where we challenge the state of health in America. I'm Jamie, a physician assistant, and I've seen how healthcare keeps people dependent instead of truly healthy.

SPEAKER_07 0:25

And I'm Ben, a veteran term fitness pro here to uncover the truth and explore simple and sustainable health solutions. From big pharma to big food, we're exposing the conflicts of interest, keeping us sick, and finding better ways to take back our health.

SPEAKER_02 0:40

No fluff, no gimmicks, just real talk, real solutions, and a little bit of fun along the way.

SPEAKER_07 0:50

Hello there, welcome to another episode of Pharmaphobic, brought to you by Achieve the Lifestyle, where we help you become the strongest, healthiest, and most capable version of yourself. As always, I'm here with my lovely co-host, special guest in my life and in the podcast. My lovely wife, Janie Brown.

SPEAKER_02 1:11

I like how I'm a guest in your life.

SPEAKER_07 1:16

How are you doing today, man?

SPEAKER_02 1:17

I'm doing great. How are you?

SPEAKER_07 1:18

I'm good. We also have an actual guest. We have Mr. Jose Rojas in the building. I could say that, Jose Rojas, but I don't know if people would understand me if I said it like that.

SPEAKER_00 1:31

Yeah, you know, people always ask me, I say it's Rojas, and I say that I'm Arabic. Because everybody just speaks to me in Spanish first. I'm like, speak English. You like to troll them like that.

SPEAKER_07 1:41

So Jose's in the building. Jose is a colleague of mine of many years. He is a professor of exercise science. He is also a researcher of exercise science. And this is very important, guys. He's also a media.

SPEAKER_03 1:56

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_07 1:58

Lift. Very heavy. Probably one of the swollest nerds that I know.

SPEAKER_02 2:03

He's like the Hulk.

SPEAKER_07 2:04

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 2:04

Right?

SPEAKER_07 2:05

So it's very, it's very important. The Hulk is. You know, you got you got the science of lifting, but you also got the lift and lift. Oh well. Yeah, before.

SPEAKER_05 2:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 2:14

So, Jose, welcome to the show. Thank you for being here.

SPEAKER_00 2:16

Thank you.

SPEAKER_07 2:16

Thank you. Um I wanted to talk a little bit of life first, because you're also a Marine Corps veteran. And I like, first of all, let me pause right there. You have an Army host in this show, and now I'm on my second Marine. Army, what's up, man?

SPEAKER_05 2:32

Well, we only had what, Mike?

SPEAKER_07 2:33

Mike is the only Army rep that we've had on the show. Uh, Navy and Air Force, we don't need you guys. Sorry, you don't count. But we're proud to talk to some Marines. So I'm always interested in how people went from the military to what they do now. And I, you know, it's I say transcend and include, it's a concept that's out there in developmental psychology, but it's like, hey, I'm not the guy that I was before when I went into the Marine Corps, but that helped me build to what I do now.

SPEAKER_02 3:01

But also, how did you get into the Marine Corps?

SPEAKER_07 3:03

Yeah, that that's that's a story. What were you the first one in your family?

SPEAKER_00 3:06

Yeah. Well, my grandfather was a general in Columbia, but I don't count that. Okay. They're boys counts, right? He was in the Colombian Army? Yeah. Before the guerrillas and everything, so it was pretty chill.

SPEAKER_06 3:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 3:16

Okay. Um my interest in the Marine Corps was actually first it was Army. Uh then I decided Marine Corps. It's a bit childish. Um, I like Call of Duty. You know, an 18-year-old boy. Uh, grew up, I actually lived in a Jewish neighborhood, but I went to school in the hood. So, you know, I thought was like, I just want to go do horbat stuff with my friends overseas. You know, that's that's what the message they gave us at Holland High School. Um, and I just figured, well, I can go shoot stuff and blow stuff up. It looks really cool in the movies. Let me go try it in real life. All right. Of course, as you can imagine, it was a huge, huge, huge uh what's the term? Um it was a rude awakening.

SPEAKER_05 3:57

Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 3:58

It's not, I mean, essentially, yes, infantry, but I was a glorified janitor. Uh the barracks cleaning, all GI parties. Mopping the uh parking lot in the rain. Nice.

SPEAKER_02 4:09

Mopping the parking lot in the rain.

SPEAKER_00 4:11

That sounds that's very marine core.

SPEAKER_02 4:12

That's well, that's that's very marine corps. I get it, like I understand it, but at the same time, that's a great use of resources.

SPEAKER_07 4:19

Oh you know what's the thing? I think the hazing, like, although the military has tried to go away from it a lot, I think the hazing almost adds to the lore, you know, when you get hazed.

SPEAKER_02 4:31

Right, which is why I understand that aspect of it, but it's like I feel like you can do hazing, but also it can be productive. Mopping in the rain is not productive.

SPEAKER_00 4:40

You're right, you're right, you're right. That is true. I mean, I do agree with the hazing, I think it may be the man I am today. It is sort of a certain kind of discipline. Or more so, actually, I'm teaching stress management for my students this uh term. And one of the things that talk about is the stress in the military, right? If you look at nurture versus nature, really, really nurtured me to um handle stress very well in the civilian.

SPEAKER_02 5:01

Increases your capacity.

SPEAKER_00 5:02

You know, my wife was like, Why are you so laid back? I'm like, it could be worse. Yeah, you know, I'm I'm not getting shot at.

SPEAKER_02 5:08

Well, that's the whole thing we've talked about before in this podcast, the whole Masogee challenge. Like, um, you know, Michael Easter wrote the book, The Comfort Crisis. We're all too comfortable. If you do something that stresses you to a max, like little things like traffic and stuff don't seem that big of a deal. So on a little bit different um, I don't know, scale, because it's not like you just like did a hard hike, like you were in the Marines, right? But it stressed you out much more so you can handle a greater capacity of minimal stressors and it doesn't bring you up to that.

SPEAKER_07 5:39

Which you need to work in this and yeah. I think for fitness, health industry, like the hours that we work and the chaos of the day and scheduling clients and doing this. It it you need to have thick skin, right?

SPEAKER_00 5:51

Yeah, the only thing I think doesn't apply to me was the hiking. My wife loves hiking. She asked me, how can you be in a bad mood during a hike?

SPEAKER_07 5:57

I'm like, Well, you're thinking about the ruck market, you're thinking about a ruck, having a rucksack on your back.

SPEAKER_02 6:02

We did a we did a thing, um, the power athlete collective, and the team bonding activity was a was a ruck run. Dan was just angry leading up to it.

SPEAKER_07 6:13

Probably like they put like 40 pounds of chain in a rucksack, in a go ruck rucksack, and we had to like run around this friggin'.

SPEAKER_02 6:19

But you didn't know that that's what it was gonna be before.

SPEAKER_07 6:21

I didn't know that, but they kept saying, Oh, we're gonna ruck, and I'm just like, ugh, like are you're not paying me to put this thing on my back.

SPEAKER_00 6:28

100%. Like when I think halfway through my enlistment, um, Spartan Race and the Tougher Mudder and stuff all became very popular, and they actually made us do it as part of our PT. So, like now my friends asked me, Do you want to do? I'm like, You want me to pay to do what I was miserable and forced to do? Or, like, we know, um my our friend or my friend Phil, whatever, he did the hundred-mile ruck. Nope. I'm like, I I get it, it's a good cause, he raised a lot of money for veterans. I'm like, but if we're doing a hundred mile ruck, we messed up, we're getting punished. This is not like yeah, yeah, like we're not doing this for any reason. There's no positive. Yep, yeah. It's the same thing with burpees.

SPEAKER_02 7:08

Yeah, I was gonna say, anyone who was an athlete and then they go to do burpees, it's like who messed up?

SPEAKER_07 7:12

Yeah, it's like why are we getting punished? You know, and people like paid to do burpees for their fitness. Now, what year did you go in?

SPEAKER_00 7:20

What year did you enlist? 2008, straight out of high school. Um, I remember the day too, because my mom was like in tears.

unknown 7:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:27

Right. I actually went in open contract. I didn't go in infantry, which was pretty lucky that I got into infantry, I guess. Um, because it was a waiting list. Were you 18? Were you 18? I was 18. Well, I started the process when I was 17 and then 18.

SPEAKER_02 7:43

What's open contract?

SPEAKER_00 7:44

Uh meaning they just put you where they need you.

SPEAKER_02 7:46

Oh, so you're just like, hey, I'm available.

SPEAKER_00 7:48

Oh Yankees. So, you know, you could have been any MOS. I could have been MO MOS. Um, and you know, my mom just immediately thought, oh, you're going to war on, but in reality, I mean, in the military, what, like 1% are actually war fighters? Not saying you won't deploy, but combat MOSs are very, very scarce. And it's even harder now.

SPEAKER_07 8:05

Yeah, because you need like five or ten support guys for every one combat guy, something like that.

SPEAKER_02 8:10

So you said you were lucky to get into infantry. Um, what would be something that you'd be like, oh, that's horrible?

unknown 8:18

Cook.

SPEAKER_00 8:19

Cook? Oh, really? Yeah, male clerk. Anything adamant, honestly. Because again, my reason for joining the military, well, I had no interest in school. My senior year, I skipped maybe 72 days of school.

SPEAKER_02 8:30

Interesting.

SPEAKER_00 8:31

You know, I had and now you're a college professor. Yep, yeah. Okay. You know, I I got accepted to UF, and I'm like, nah, screw this. I'm going to the military. I'm gonna go do cool stuff. You know, so yeah, if you were to look at my 17, 18-year-old self and say, you're gonna be a doctor one day, I'm like, Yeah. That's crazy. That's not me. So that's um I ended up joining. I knew I wanted to do something combat. Um, I didn't understand the contract, so I just did open contract, which also I think was good for my mother because I got to explain to her, hey, I'm not picking combat. This is just this is my contract. You know, she cried and everything. Um, she was really proud and happy after. You know, I didn't die. So she she she can brag about it, but that I do remember the most because yeah, that that night um the recruiter came, picked me up to go to MEPS like at four in the morning, and she was just bawling in tears. And then um, I don't know how they do it in the army. Well, OCS may be a little bit different as well, too. But um, when you get to Paris Island, you do the yellow footsteps. Everybody sees that iconic picture of people just walking in the footsteps. You walk into processing, they make you, and it's still early, it's probably like five in the morning. They make you call home and say, This is recruitable, how blah blah blah blah. I made it, I'm safe, and you hang up. No, no other words are exchanged. I can I can just imagine what my mother was thinking, just hearing me, because I'm yelling and talking fast, because they're in your ear. Just I can just imagine what like she thought. Yeah, they make you do that in the army. Yeah, so it's like, man.

SPEAKER_07 9:57

The thing is, I feel like your your basic training is like, you know, if the army takes it to like an eight or nine, uh nowadays I guess they leave it at like a five, maybe, but you guys are like 12. Like all those drill instructors are in.

SPEAKER_00 10:10

Well, back in my day, I think things changed too. There's uh stress cards now.

SPEAKER_01 10:13

So what?

SPEAKER_00 10:14

Stress cards. In the Marine Corps? Yeah. And cards like you're too stressed, you pull it out.

SPEAKER_02 10:20

Can I have one for work?

SPEAKER_00 10:22

Sorry. No, because back in my day, I remember they take us to the pit, like, oh, we're going to the beach, but there's no water. So you're just there in a sand, in a sandbox, a kid's play toy. You're in a sandbox, you know, they kick sand in your face, they spray you with a hose and they give you push-ups. I remember standing in formation when they just got a fresh haircut. If you've been to South Carolina, there's a lot of sand fleas. They're just all over the back of my head. I'm just like twitching. And I go and I scratch, and next thing I see is a moon beam, which is the flashlight that we use, just coming straight right to the face.

SPEAKER_01 10:54

Yeah, because you touched my face. Broke form or whatever.

SPEAKER_00 10:57

Yeah, yeah. I think a lot of that has changed. Um my cousin went in later on. Even the equipment changed. Uh, our IlB packs, well, our big uh packs, um, were just a strap in the backpack. Now it has some kind of like a suspension system that bounces up and down to take off pressure from your lower back. Stop it. Which is great, right? That is a good idea.

SPEAKER_07 11:17

But I'm just like, but so Yeah, you don't feel that strap digging into your traps and that rucksack shafing your back anymore.

SPEAKER_02 11:25

I think I can't remember who we were talking about with it, but like, yes, people can sit here and be like, oh my God, you got hit in the face with a um with a flashlight. That's terrible, that's abuse, da-da-da-da. But if you were to go to war and you'd never been hit in the face with something and somebody comes up and hits you, how are you gonna react? You know, it's like you need to get that that shock out first, which I don't think a lot of people understand. That's what the whole hazing thing is.

SPEAKER_07 11:52

There's a, you know, the the push to make the military more PC and more friendly to uh more people is not a good idea, right?

SPEAKER_00 11:59

Because it's not a social experiment, no, it's it's war fighting. Exactly. People's feelings are gonna get hurt. Yep. Yeah, you know, that's that's the point. I I think if we start changing those things, we really start to lose that warrior ethos and our effectiveness essentially. Yeah. And I mean, look at now, I think uh tier one units are having the hardest time recruiting anybody because nobody's in hacking or they're considered mentally ill.

SPEAKER_07 12:22

Well, I think a lot of people, and this is just tier one units for the the non-initiated, it's like special operations, like that's the high-level people that don't exist type stuff.

SPEAKER_02 12:33

But this is like an ignorant civilian thought. Do you think a lot of people are thinking that war is going to be more drones, technological, things like that, so we don't need physical.

SPEAKER_00 12:48

I think to support people, maybe. I mean, listen, with everything going on now, people that oh war is terrible, we're just this and that, nobody wants this. Go to a ground unit, ask these these grunts who wants to go.

SPEAKER_05 13:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:01

And see the kind of response you'll get. I agree. You know, I mean, it it's mostly people who do not fight wars that are saying, Oh, you're killing our troops, this and that, which I mean, yeah, it's war, but they're I I don't think war is a good thing, obviously.

SPEAKER_05 13:14

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 13:14

But for those speaking out for the grunts saying they don't want this, we didn't sign up for they clearly did.

SPEAKER_05 13:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:20

You know, mo most of them.

SPEAKER_05 13:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 13:21

Yeah. I think people like that join the military like that, especially in MOSs like that, like infantry and tankers and combat aviation, artillery, that sort of thing, the majority of them are people that think of war like a like playing in a football game. They don't want to be the guy that's keeps the warm-up suit on and just stands on the sideline. They want to go play, right?

SPEAKER_05 13:44

I see.

SPEAKER_07 13:44

And and a lot of it is, you know, it's youth and and and some of it is ignorance for sure. Like you're 18, 19, you know, the lieutenant might be 25 years old, the the company commander might be 28 years old, you know, and you're just young and like we're we're macho men. So, which, you know, it's I think it's a lovely thing, right? We need that. So they want to go do the thing, you know. That's why you join. It's like, oh, but I'm all this training, I want to do the thing, right? Yeah. Um, and if you're gonna do the thing, it can't be you can't be playing patty cake. You know, it's it's gonna be rough, right? So 08 was a good year. That's when I say a good year, I mean that's the surge, right? Like you if you joined in uh anywhere from 2003 on, you knew you were going to combat. Maybe it stopped around 2011, 2012.

SPEAKER_00 14:35

No, nope, Afghanistan. Camp Marshall rated it was, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 14:39

Yeah, 2012. I deployed Afghanistan in 2012, so it was surging in Afghanistan, but you knew you were going. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:45

Yeah, me and I joined 2008, got out boot camp, which is 10 weeks for us, roughly three months. Then we get I chose you can either go home for a 10-day leave or you can go straight to um uh SOI School of Infantry in um Camp Geiger in North Carolina. I I went home and then I did my school of infantry, and then I got sent to the fleet Camp Hamilton, thank God. My second option was Hawaii, but I'm glad I didn't go. Um, and then yeah, before I could legally buy a beer in this country, I already fought two wars.

SPEAKER_06 15:14

Really?

SPEAKER_00 15:15

So you two deployments before you were 21. I actually had turned 21 overseas.

unknown 15:20

Nice. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:21

How long were your deployments?

SPEAKER_00 15:22

Seven months.

SPEAKER_02 15:23

Seven months? That's different than the Army.

SPEAKER_07 15:25

Oh, yeah. That's long for them. Because uh those years like 08, we were doing 15 month deployments. Okay, yeah, and they were doing seven, which is extended. It's usually six.

SPEAKER_02 15:36

And then um Why is Marines so much shorter than Army?

SPEAKER_07 15:40

Uh the justification is that they don't have the infrastructure to sustain combat for that long. They're more like quick in and out, like expeditionary. Okay. And we are the whole, the ground. We have that robust logistical infrastructure to hold ground. Okay. They're like HQ for us.

SPEAKER_06 15:56

Gotcha. Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_07 15:57

We're also tougher than Marines.

SPEAKER_00 16:00

I mean, listen, Delta Force is the top special operations unit in the world. And it's not in the Marine Corps, then maybe it's in the Army, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 16:12

Yeah, that is true.

SPEAKER_00 16:13

Um, certain SEAL teams do that as well, too. Um, you actually can apply for SEAL school when you're in the Marine Corps. Um, but obviously if you fell out, you could put back in the Marine Corps.

SPEAKER_05 16:22

Okay.

SPEAKER_07 16:22

Um now that they uh during those times, then we shortened down to nine, and then I guess you guys went back to six.

SPEAKER_00 16:31

Yeah, and we always had like, I don't know if you guys had a damn, but we had like Avon or advanced crew. So like a third of the unit will deploy first and the bulk of it will redeploy. Okay. And then it's a quick turnaround with another unit coming to replace us.

SPEAKER_05 16:43

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 16:43

Um yeah, I mean, it's changed a lot, you know, since World War II, because I think when they used to send full deployments for the Marine Corps, like take uh what's it called? Uh Jesus. Uh when we were attacking the Japanese, I think the Marine Corps lost the entire third Marine Corps regiment. Uh Pele Lu. Pele Lu. Because of the Corps Reefs. The entire regiment was pretty much decimated just trying to get into the island. Trying to get out.

SPEAKER_05 17:07

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:07

So I think they, you know, they're probably trying to spread things out a little bit better. Where'd you go first? What was your first deployment? Iraq, which was Camp Cupcake. By the time I was in Iraq, I mean, we had Burger King subways, Baltimore Corps. Oh yeah, no, we had oh yeah. It was nice. We had a Were you in Al-Assad or were you? Yes, I was in Al-Assad. And they had a nice little like Lego basketball court plate basketball every day.

SPEAKER_02 17:28

So were the Burger Kings staffed by civilians contracted with the military or by military?

SPEAKER_07 17:35

Yeah, civilians. They're usually Filipino or African.

SPEAKER_02 17:38

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_07 17:39

Um, and they staff them with civilians. Um, you said uh you were in Al-Assad the whole time? Yep. You didn't go out to the BP's like Rawa, Al Qaim. In Iraq, all of that. You kind of just sat on the water, I think, almost the entire time. So I was I deployed to Al-Assad 07 and we came back 09. Very familiar with Al-Assad. But then I went out to Rawa, and then I had people like in Hit and Al Qaim, like all around that western, all the way to the border with uh Jordan. Is that Jordan or is that Syria? I think Al-Qaim is in the border with Syria. Yeah. But it um, how was that deployment?

SPEAKER_00 18:13

Ambar was kind of quiet in a way. Um, it's my first deployment, so it was really scary at first. I never shot at someone, never been shot at for real. Um but I think you know my friends made it a lot easier, and the fact that it was so relaxed at the time made it a lot easier too. Um I'm grateful for the experience, specifically uh Iraq, just because it wasn't like uh like when we went to Afghanistan, it was nothing. We had to establish everything, and it was barely any running water. So here I came to pretty much like what you would consider a college campus. I mean, what I would uh compare it to. Um but it was really good because it was my first time ever to the Middle East. It was my first time ever on a combat deployment. I've done detachments, but mostly training before. And I got to meet a lot of cool people. I got to work with uh with the uh Royal Marines, got to work with the Canadians, so that thing was.

SPEAKER_02 19:06

Royal Marines, is that Britain? British.

SPEAKER_00 19:08

Okay, yeah, like British Dan. Yeah, British Dan was a Royal Marines. It's hard to tell, but he was a Royal Dan.

SPEAKER_02 19:13

He was a Royal Marines. I did not know that.

SPEAKER_08 19:16

Yeah, interesting. Tough dudes too. They're pretty cool.

SPEAKER_02 19:19

He's he's so quiet.

SPEAKER_08 19:20

Yeah, they're pretty cool.

SPEAKER_02 19:21

Yeah, he doesn't let people like he sounds Australian because he lived in Australia or where New Zealand, Australia for forever, but he's not, and he just kind of keeps himself vague. It's like you don't know.

SPEAKER_00 19:31

The uh when we were in Iraq, though, the really cool thing was the attached uh airwing unit, which HMLA 469, which is a rotary unit. So Hueys and Cobras, and they gave us joyrides on the uh on the on the Huey's.

SPEAKER_06 19:44

Oh, cool.

SPEAKER_00 19:45

It was really, really cool, but I'm really bad with motion sickness. Oh, yeah. And they're trying they're trying to they're trying to mess you guys up. The pilots, yeah. They do mess, they'll turn off the blades and then turn it back on, you know, do like a little death fall. Um, I was looking at sheeps running in circles, I ended up getting sick and I threw up, you know. So it was it was bad. And then we got a joy ride in a cobra. So obviously the CEO was on the joyrides, he was the pilot, and you were the gunner seat. The cool thing about the gunner seat is the helmets are specifically laser grafted to the pilot's head. So wherever you look, the main gun aims.

SPEAKER_01 20:18

Oh, that's cool.

SPEAKER_00 20:19

So that's so cool.

SPEAKER_05 20:21

Yeah. No, that's really cool.

SPEAKER_07 20:22

We didn't get to shoot it, but it is cool to I had uh I was in Rawa, and this is funny because the Marine Corps, when you guys go, you rough it. So you being in Al Assad is probably like, oh my God, this is so cool, right? Because you had everything, but you went out west to like Rawa, it was all like SWAT huts and tents and a big old dust bowl. Like we'd get sandstorms, and I could see you, you're sitting there and you're like, Oh, I'm inside, I'm good. And then you shine a light and you could just see all the dust coming into the SWAT HUD. It's terrible. It's probably why I can't sleep anymore. But anyway, um, we had they had like a like a firing range right outside the cop, and the cobras would swing by in the middle of the night and just test fire their guns on that stuff. Oh, okay.

unknown 21:07

So cover. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 21:08

I think that might be more why you can't sleep than the dust, but anyway, some nights I slept through that, but pretty at night to see. You know, you see them shoot their guns, you see all these tracers, and then you see the the hellfire missiles shoot, you see the explosion, you count like five seconds, then you hear it. Then you're it's pretty good.

SPEAKER_02 21:24

But I don't think you understand like the fact that you could sleep through uh an aircraft firing guns, that that itself is a problem.

SPEAKER_07 21:32

Um bad, I mean it's convenient. It's an adaptation. Yeah, it's an adaptation.

SPEAKER_02 21:36

It's an adaptation, correct?

SPEAKER_07 21:38

But it's an adaptation.

SPEAKER_02 21:40

Good for that, not for civilian life.

SPEAKER_07 21:42

Yeah, my platoon sergeant was like he was older. He's like, he's one of those guys that got out and then there was war and he came back. He's like, Oh, I want to go to war. So he came back and he's like, Sir, you didn't hear that stuff last night? They I couldn't sleep. And I'm like, What are you talking about?

SPEAKER_00 21:54

You're going off. No, yeah. I mean, all you need is a good rock, you can sleep. I think the only noise. That ever woke me up was Pine Mortars.

SPEAKER_02 22:02

Yeah. So most people need like white noise and rain to sleep, and you guys need like all is good in the world.

SPEAKER_07 22:11

So in that deployment, anything like crazy happen, or was it just a pretty chill, like a good soft injury?

SPEAKER_00 22:17

We did a couple of fist teams, which is you gather different Marines from different units. You get like your non-combat Marines and they get your little joyride, which is think thinking back as an adult, you know, with a fully developed brain, it's kind of dumb. Your joyride is potentially getting shot at or blown up. Um, you know, so people got blown up a lot. Not a lot of people got shot during that time. Uh fortunately, none of us. You know, we didn't we didn't see any of that stuff. Um, we had a few firefights, but nothing crazy, right? We weren't kicking downdoors, we weren't doing anything.

SPEAKER_07 22:45

You know, like more like presence patrolling at that time, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:48

I mean, again, it was super, super chill at the time. Yeah. It did get a little bit worse after we left.

SPEAKER_07 22:52

And then it, whatever, it goes up and down. Yeah, they had this pattern, like like triangular pattern back then where they would kick off in Baghdad and then they do a clearing up, kick them out of there, they come north and west to Anbar, and then you kick them out of there, then they go up north to Mosul and just kept playing like that for 20 years.

SPEAKER_02 23:11

Nice.

SPEAKER_00 23:11

Yeah, I think Mosul was pretty bad during that time, but we never went, huh? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:17

How do they prepare you? And if this is if you don't really want to talk about it, it's fine. But obviously, we talked about the hazing and stuff like that. But how do they prepare you? And either of you can answer this, for um shooting at somebody, possibly unaliving somebody, people shooting at you. How do they pre-cause obviously you can't like shoot at your people you're training with, right?

SPEAKER_00 23:39

Yeah. So we have simulation rounds, but again, it's not the same thing. It's it's literally paying.

SPEAKER_02 23:43

I mean, do they give you any sort of like um I guess like do they talk to you about like how to mentally think about it or wrap your head around it, or it's kind of no, you're gonna figure it out when you go through it?

SPEAKER_00 23:55

I think they do, but it's very poorly done.

SPEAKER_02 23:57

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 23:58

You know, you have again another maybe 25, 20 year old sergeant, staff sergeant giving you a motivating speech, you know, gonna go out there, gonna go fight war. Um, you guys are ready, they'll say something silly like ra. Yeah, that's it. Like but I think I think when you're young, and I I don't think anything will prepare you for it. Right. The first time like I had to go out and shoot at someone, it was pretty scary because I'm thinking, oh, I'm I'm gonna get in trouble. This is a sin, this is a crime.

SPEAKER_05 24:27

Right.

SPEAKER_00 24:28

After like the second or third time, like I mean, still a lot of anxiety, still a lot of you know, fear being so young, but I didn't think I was doing something wrong at the time. At first I'm like, yeah, this is this is like my mom would not approve of this. You know, it's funny. That's where you're coming from a Hispanic family, like yeah, you know how much that means. Damn, mom's not gonna like this.

SPEAKER_02 24:53

What didn't Mike? Mike said something that one of his higher ups told him, remember? Oh shoot, I can't remember, but he told him something. This, but this wasn't preparing, this was after they were already there.

SPEAKER_07 25:03

Oh, that not many people are gonna do this. Yeah, like your yeah, the experience that you have and and to actually do it for real, because there's people that joined the military and put 20-year careers in, you know, they come in and retire and they never go to combat.

SPEAKER_00 25:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 25:17

And then, you know, you got the opportunity to do the job for real, for real. And you know, a lot of people might have oh, you're killing and all this stuff, but it's like, listen, the guys that joined and go do the fighting, they don't have a say in this, right? You're obeying orders. This is coming down from the commander-in-chief. That's what the nation wants to do at that time. You just go do it. Um, and you find your little joy's not the word, but you know, you you make the best of it, right? Of this of a of a terrible situation.

SPEAKER_00 25:51

Yeah, I think one of the um methods that I use a lot, and it's a little bit morbid, but you you can't think of them as people. You have to disassociate that. I think that's because my wife asked me, like, does it ever bother you? Like, you think about all the stuff in the past, you know, like these people, I'm like, listen, everybody's a son, everybody could be a father or a brother. I can think about that after. And if I do it during, I won't think clearly. I'll probably be the one getting shot. Yep. You know, um I because I I think under any other circumstances, some of those people, because a lot of my friends, I do a lot of work in Southeast Asia. Most of them are Muslim. I think under different circumstances, some of those people that were against us, we'd probably be pretty good friends, you know. But circumstance calls for for that.

SPEAKER_07 26:34

I've heard I've heard people say that before because they're young too, right? The guys on the other side are 20-some year old, maybe 30-year-old guys.

SPEAKER_00 26:42

Some are 15.

SPEAKER_07 26:43

Some are 15, you know, and they're young too. And that and there's like that male call to just do macho stuff, right? So it's you're putting two young guys in the ring against each other. And part of it is like, oh, this guy, best way I've heard it say, I heard on another podcast, another guy that's got a prepped on a deployment, he said, he's like, Listen, if you came to us, if there were no war and you came to us and said, hey, there's these guys on the other side of the world, they say they're better than you, bro. You want to go fight it out with them? And we'd have been like, hell yeah, you know, let's go. So it's that's what it comes down to, right? It's a bunch of young people fighting each other for almost like shits and giggles at that point, you know.

SPEAKER_02 27:26

Some sometimes I think about just because I, you know, listen to some similar podcasts that you do, they talk about war, some of the books that I read, and just how war has evolved. So it used to be now whether this is 100% accurate or not, but just what I've read, where the leaders would fight each other, and then whoever won would win.

SPEAKER_07 27:44

That was like very that was an option in like Middle Ages and that sort of thing. Yeah, you put your best guy against the water.

SPEAKER_02 27:53

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 27:53

That would that'd be great.

SPEAKER_02 27:54

Yeah, right. So that and then now it's like people fighting, but now it's like introducing drones and technology to fight for us, but then it comes to the part where at least it's, you know, with firearms, it's man versus man. E both sides are gonna make errors. The room for error gets less with technology. And now how do we feel that a robot is killing a bunch of people without discrimination?

SPEAKER_00 28:20

That's the issue. I think uh we've made very conscious choices not to shoot at someone.

SPEAKER_02 28:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:27

When we probably should have.

SPEAKER_02 28:28

Right.

SPEAKER_00 28:28

A robot won't do that.

SPEAKER_02 28:29

Exactly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:31

That person is maybe still alive. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 28:33

Yeah. And so some people are like, well, it's better if robots do it because then our people aren't getting hurt, but then it's like, yeah, you know, to me, it's it's it's complicated.

SPEAKER_07 28:42

Well, it it I think it decreases the price. Like if you're sending guys to fight, you have to support them, people get hurt. Yeah, right. And you know, you you take it more seriously because you're like, oh, so and so 18-year-old died, yeah, got blown up. This guy's missing a leg. You see the toll, right? Versus if you're just sending drones in, the price is less. So it makes it easier to do.

SPEAKER_05 29:07

Yeah, you know what I mean? That's true.

SPEAKER_07 29:08

Because one guy can fix 10 drones, right? Um yeah, it it it reduces the price. Therefore, I think it would make warfare more a quicker option.

SPEAKER_02 29:18

Right, but then it also reduces the sacrifice.

SPEAKER_07 29:20

Yes, yes. But you know, throughout the ages, people will think about it before going to war because the toll, the price you're gonna lose. No, I agree with you. I'm just thinking Yeah, no, that's that's what I'm saying. So we're commoditizing war now, you know, because we're turning it. I mean, it's it already is it already is. Yeah, I mean, as you know, we meant probably a couple companies made billions off the Iraq and Afghanistan, but you know, KBR, Alibird, like, but it you're cheaping it, you're making it even cheaper to go kill people, right? Whereas before it's like, yeah, I have to train these guys, I have to invest, I have to feed them, I have to clothe them, and then I have to make sure that they're ready to go do this job. And then when a couple of them get hurt, it's like, ah, do I want to keep this going? It makes you think about it more. You know, unless you're, I don't know, dick chain or something. You're like, yeah, just keep it going.

SPEAKER_02 30:06

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SPEAKER_00 31:52

Yeah, it's I mean it's definitely food for thought, right? Like the logical, sane person in me says, no, it's the good thing. We, you know, reduce the amount of loss we we suffer in is the drawhead in me is like, no, I want to do the shooting. Like, let's go. Yeah. But you know, it's logic versus emotion.

SPEAKER_02 32:08

Yeah. I and interesting, I read a fiction book about um AI, the use of AI, the use of technology, things like that. And then it comes, but then if it messes up, who's responsible? So say like a drone kills like a school bus full of kids. Who's responsible? Is it the drone? That's it, is it the operator of the drone? Is it the creator of the drone? Interesting. Is it the, you know, so then that opens up a whole thing. And then at what point do we give then AI the ability to make decisions like that, therefore giving them a conscience in a sense? Right?

SPEAKER_07 32:44

And so that's a rabbit hole, right? Yeah. You know. Anyway, sorry, went off on a little bit of a No, that that is that that's a that's actually a pretty thought-provoking concept, right? I don't know what what to make of that. I I worry, because you know, like I said, if it's cheaper to go to war, meaning, you know, the human toll is less, then it makes it an easier option.

SPEAKER_02 33:08

So it probably more mainstream example is like if uh if an AI car, not the Wagos or whatever the Waymos. Waymo's that um nobody's a driver in there, but the ones that are automated, but there's a person in the driver's seat, if you get into an accident, whose fault is it?

SPEAKER_00 33:26

You know. So it's just Yeah, I'm just thinking using those cars to make vehicle-borne IEDs. Fantastic. Yeah, that'd be great. Yeah, you know what?

SPEAKER_07 33:36

I don't we'll probably see that. Yeah, you know, like they go out first to test, like a self-driving Tesla and then just boom.

SPEAKER_02 33:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 33:43

Oh man. Oh, that we probably just gave somebody an ISIS an idea. So what was second deployment? You went to Afghanistan? Afghanistan, yeah, Camp Ashton. Hellman prominence.

SPEAKER_02 33:53

And that one you had to create a living environment. Like it wasn't challenged.

SPEAKER_00 33:59

Yeah, at first it was like a FOB, it was just a tiny little thing or like an outpost, and then it was Camp Ashton and started to develop. Um, all the airway units came in, and we also, again, had the uh Royal Marines there with us. Uh, we had some army and a couple of SEAL teams with us as well, too. Um, that was a pretty cool deployment because that was really what I expected it would be, right? I mean, we would get attacked multiple times. Um, one one night, can't I think there was a comic book or a short movie about this. Camp Ashing got attacked. Uh, we got mortared by a bunch of uh ISIS or town, whatever you want to call them at the time. And then the I remember very clearly because I was in my silkies, I was in flip-flops, and then just still a flag jacket ran out.

SPEAKER_02 34:41

I can't imagine he was so. They caught you.

SPEAKER_00 34:44

I remember the night next, I don't know, short on the next day. My nipples were all shaved. Um, but no, it was actually pretty bad. Um, when the rotary wing units were starting to turn on, uh the CEO was getting in. They mortared it, killed the CEO, destroyed the aircraft, and killed the crew chief as well, too. They hit an aircraft before it took off. Yep, and they killed it. And and they killed your CO, which is like damn. Holy crap. You know, it's not something you commonly see. Yeah. Right? Like a higher commissioned officer being killed like that. So for me, that was a shock. So first time I ever experienced loss on our side. I I never fortunately we've never really experienced at least me when I was in, I never experienced any loss of my friends or anything like that. Just just that one. I lost a lot of friends, but mostly training accidents, and then when they deployed without me. You know, but um for me, uh, I was what 20? That was that was pretty shocking.

SPEAKER_02 35:35

That was a lot, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:36

I didn't I did not expect that. You know, and then that's when I realized, okay, this isn't really a game anymore. Iraq was fun, you know, and still not a game, but it wasn't like this. You know, so it was a huge shock for me. You know, um, I was very scared, especially after seeing a CEO get killed. Because in our head, being so young, like, oh, this is our CEO's like up here. This is the leader, like nobody's gonna touch him. This is the guy we follow. He's our rock. What's wrong when that Iraq is gone? Yeah, right. Like the absence. I mean, it's it wasn't our unit, but still someone that we were attached to.

SPEAKER_02 36:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:09

That was our, you know, that would drop us off and I wouldn't have to be able to do that.

SPEAKER_02 36:12

Yeah, that whole thought though, if if he goes down, what does that what can happen to him? You know, yeah, I understand.

SPEAKER_00 36:17

Like the absolute leadership. I mean, they have an exo, obviously, you know, for that purpose, but still it's I notice a difference in culture with officers.

SPEAKER_07 36:25

It makes sense to me, right? Because the Marine Corps have a more of an old school situation with the officers. Like you guys are very separated by the ranks, like, oh, staff NCO and above. Ooh, officer and above. And the officers are very centralized, like they hold a lot of power in the unit. Whereas in the army, you know, the lieutenants and the company commanders are more like, oh, whatever. That's just another guy, right? Like, yeah, you're making command decisions, but it's it's very decentralized in nature, and they don't really, you don't really put too much effort into separating the ranks like like the Marine Corps does.

SPEAKER_00 36:59

You know, and speaking of like those higher commissioned or higher enlisted, maybe you can speak to this too. And it's always, at least the guys in command are the guys who either have no combat experience or are just not out there, period. You know, so when you call for like a you know, close air support, right? Or a danger fire mission and they deny it, you're like, Yeah, they don't know what you're feeling. You're not here. Yeah, yeah. Or they'll be like, well, we need a quiet entry, right? Which we don't kick down doors. We need a quiet entry. I'm like, I'm pretty sure this building is full of explosives or full of whatever. I'm like, You want us to just knock?

SPEAKER_07 37:36

Yeah. Yeah. It does that does create, I think, you know, and it happens in the army a lot, but that like people that are disconnected from the actual boots on ground make terrible decisions for the people that are boots on ground. You know, this applies to corporate world as well. Like these higher-ups are disconnected from the day-to-day tasks, right? But when you like centralize power so much on on in that office officer structure, or even the senior NCO ranks, but even the senior NCOs in the Marine Corps, I kind of noticed that they were hesitant to make decisions without the CO. Whereas, you know, like E8, I'm like, hey, Master Son, you know, what do you what do you want to do with this or that? And it's like, oh, let me talk to the CO. And I'm just like, uh to me, it was shocking because me, my platoon sergeant, I'm like, do whatever you want to do. Like, and then I'll be like, yeah, that fits within the structure, it doesn't, and I'll back you up on it. You know, in the army, the NCOs kind of run things and then they tell you what they're doing. And the in the Marine Corps, it's the opposite. It's like it all comes down from the top, it creates a different culture, you know.

SPEAKER_00 38:39

Yeah, and good stuff again, because there's such a huge disconnect. You know, somebody's sitting behind a desk looking at numbers on a screen or looking at a blue force tracker, essentially playing like a video game, just with your ponds here. They're playing chess. Yeah, no, they're not the chess pieces, so there's nothing in stake for that. So yeah, it's it's it's scary. Scary because you know, when again you call for support and they're like, nah. Yeah, that's crazy.

SPEAKER_07 39:04

That's crazy. What year was Afghanistan? Was that 2010? 2010, yeah. 2010. Yeah, that's a high year there too. That's really when it ramped up. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:14

I think the army had it really bad, especially in Corangal Valley, right?

SPEAKER_07 39:18

Yeah, that's the year uh a lot of medal of medals of honor came from Coringal Valley. Uh funny thing, when I was there in 2012, we had that. That's RC East, right? So it's Kunar, it's Nangar, and it was Nuristan. That's where Coringal Valley is. It was part of our AO, but we weren't allowed to set foot in it. There were no American forces in Nuristan province. Like you couldn't even, nobody put their foot feet on it. It was completely off limits. That was insurgent central. Like it's hot. And it was because of that butt whooping from 2010. Yeah. That they pulled everybody out of there.

SPEAKER_00 39:55

Yeah, and one thing I I mean, I can only conceptualize because I didn't join earlier to fight an actual military, but fighting what we'd call terrorists, right? You don't know who's who. Yeah. There was a lot of like um uh the Iraqi security forces turning on the Americans.

SPEAKER_05 40:12

You know, whether like that that was crazy.

SPEAKER_00 40:15

Like you would think, okay, we're helping you out, but at the end of the day, you're like, can I can I really trust this person?

SPEAKER_02 40:20

Yeah, you deployed right after that, was it?

SPEAKER_07 40:22

Yeah, so the green on blue, those are the green on blues, like Afghans turning on Americans, those started like 2011-ish. 20, even 2010, it really started to ramp up. And then I got there 2012, where it was like at the height of it. So yeah, and then I went to on a freaking mid-team to work with Afghans every day. And that was in the back of my mind the entire time, like working with these guys every day. I'm like, I don't know what can happen here. Yeah, you know, and we did some stuff too. Like my boss in that deployment, he was not all there. This dude was, he had he was a colonel, like a full bird colonel, really high-ranking dude. But he was whacked out on I don't, I mean, he this dude was insane. So we did stuff that I was like, yeah, I don't think we should be doing this. But whatever, I'm here to tell the story now. But yeah, that was always scary. Were you guys embedded with Afghans too? Shortly. Shortly. Like Afghan army? Yeah, that was the high risk one. It was af Afghan police was like what you'd suspect the most, and then Afghan army, like I don't know, these guys.

SPEAKER_00 41:26

Yeah, because I mean it was the wild west. Again, there was nothing out there. Rest of the Iraq, I mean, it was they were establishing a community. I guess it was a little more, I guess, uh, or a little wet less worrisome, um, but you know, it's still present. Definitely very different ideals.

SPEAKER_07 41:45

Yeah, I think the fighting was very different too, because I tell people this I'm like the Iraqis were more like a hit and run, and the Afghans are where they wanted to fight. Yeah. Like they sustained firefights, and you're like, How are you still here? And they keep going and going and going.

SPEAKER_00 42:02

Yeah, because they would attack Camp Ashen multiple times, and I mean they would never succeed other than the mortar strikes, which they didn't technically succeed, they just took out a CO. But I mean, they're just sending waves and waves, and like they're getting mowed down, you know, by the towers.

SPEAKER_02 42:16

I'm like, How do you stop a mortar attack? Is there ways to counter it?

SPEAKER_07 42:22

Uh yeah, there's there's stop at mid-fire off, or yeah, there's there's technology, like you have these blips. I don't know. Did you guys have this that can tell you where it's coming from? Like you put it up in the air and it'll cash. Like if something fires off in a certain radius, it'll like point to it. It'll basically train a camera on it, like a long-range infrared camera on the poo, they call it, the point of origin. And it'll, yeah, a poo, it'll, it'll train the camera on it. So at least you can send somebody out there to see what happens. Now they have these things that are pretty interesting. I was watching, I guess they have them in Kuwait and stuff, that it's like looks like a Star Wars turret where it's something fires off, it brrr, it intercepts it.

SPEAKER_00 43:03

I've seen those.

SPEAKER_07 43:04

Yeah, it's a I think it's a dram, it's what it's called. It's amazing. But it is like shoots down the motor. It shoots down the thing midair. I mean, and it's like a big old machine gun. It looks like a Star Wars turret. It's they shoot like an insane amount of rounds per second. It's it's it's crazy. And it intercepts the round in the air.

SPEAKER_02 43:18

And it's like laser guided. Yeah, it's it's it's like remote control.

SPEAKER_07 43:23

Yeah, it's it's yeah, uh it's an automatic, right? Like, did you guys have crow systems? Yes. So before you used to have a gunner in the turret, then later on, by this time, you went to a crow, which is the gunner is inside, and this thing, like the machine gun scanning, picking up movement by itself. And then it fires if it hits something by itself.

SPEAKER_01 43:43

Like, oh, it was a goat.

SPEAKER_07 43:44

Yeah, like it's exactly. Yeah, that sort of thing. Yeah, that's the that's the downside, but at least you don't have anybody behind the turret, right? Getting blowed up for nothing. Um interesting. But yeah, these guys in Afghanistan, they would, it was crazy that they would just keep going and going. It's like, bro, this is fuel. But they're going.

unknown 44:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 44:02

Going and going. I think um opium. Maybe. Could be. Yeah. Yeah. I think my first, well, my first day in country in Afghanistan was in a Jalalabad. I got there at night from well, we were in Bagram first for a couple of days, like doing the improcessing stuff. And then I flew to where my job was in that uh we were in Logman. And then that same night I literally landed and they're like, hey, you got to go to Nangahart to do this like aerial resupply thing with these Afghan pilots. Oh my God, bro, I don't even have a room. Still get no.

SPEAKER_02 44:35

So you had to get into a plane or a helicopter, something flown by Afghans to take you somewhere?

SPEAKER_07 44:41

No, they we were training. Part of my job was to like help Afghans plan resupply missions by air. So there was an Afghan air wing. They had these Russian, old Russian helicopters, and they would fly resupply missions to Nuristan and places like that to reinforce their battle positions. So I was, you know, as a logistics advisor, I was working helping them plan that stuff. And I not even first, I got there at night and they're like, yeah, you got to go over here because they're gonna do a mission tomorrow. So I went to Jalalabad, which is a pretty famous place in Afghanistan, got there at like 2 a.m. I set an alarm for 5 a.m. because I was gonna work out. I was fat back then. I got hurt and I was like, got chunky. And I was like, I need to go start working out. I need to run. And I woke up at 5 a.m., the alarm went off, and I was like, I was debate kicking it around like you know, in one of those transient tents. I'm like, am I gonna do this? I was like, uh, being a little soft, being a little weenie. And immediately, bro, VBD, boom, and this thing goes off. And then the towers start going off. I mean, huge attack. Like it lasted hours. I was like, Well going to Afghanistan. And I thought, and I stayed in bed at first because I'm like, oh, this is gonna be over in two seconds. Like Iraq. You get a Vid, you might get a couple mortars, it's done. They run away. No, it went on for like four hours. Like CNN was reporting on it, and we were still in it. This guy, these they put helicopters up, they're dropping on them. The guys are still going.

SPEAKER_08 46:08

I was like, oh, this is gonna be a different deployment. It's gonna be very different. Kind of reminds me of Rambo when he was in Afghanistan.

SPEAKER_00 46:14

Actually, I think that movie essentially foretold the future because it's exactly the same events.

SPEAKER_07 46:18

Yeah, no, pretty much. And then the guys were tough in the movie, too.

unknown 46:22

So funny.

SPEAKER_07 46:23

Did you have a moment like that where you're like, oh, this ain't Iraq anymore? Was it that when that CO got killed? Yeah, that was the moment. I was like, this is not a game. What how long, how long into it were you at that point?

SPEAKER_00 46:33

Uh third month.

SPEAKER_07 46:35

Third month? Third month. Okay. Took a little bit, but you want to say third month, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:39

Because I remember the first time getting there was mostly just setting up, establishing, and then running a few trainings. That's it.

SPEAKER_07 46:45

What did you after that deployment? What what happened in that deployment? Did you did you get hurt in that deployment?

SPEAKER_00 46:52

Yes, yes. Uh I got hit by an IED. Got hit. So um one of three, but that was the one I actually got like injured, injured. Like some shrapnel to the chest, pepper to my face, um, lost my equilibrium for a little bit. Uh, for an extra.

SPEAKER_07 47:04

Were you on were you on foot or were you yes, yeah, I was on foot.

SPEAKER_00 47:07

The other times we were on a on a MRAP. Oh, yeah. If I had to guess, minimum six concussions.

SPEAKER_05 47:13

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 47:13

Not just for the military, but yeah. I mean, the um yeah, getting him with an ID and an MRAP, that that really messes it up. It's not uh enough of an injury really to get like a purple heart, but the other explosion was um that would mess up my back. I had false attica for like two years. Only because I didn't know I gotta release the muscle. You know, um, the concussions, the equilibrium, neck was compressed. And again, it was just really scary. Um, I have really bad tinnitus now. And uh, I'm actually going to see the audiologist the VA soon because I think I'm losing hearing in this year. Oh, you probably are. Like very, very little, but it's enough. Like my wife talks, I have to like lean in now.

SPEAKER_05 47:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:54

Listen. Or she has to talk on this. You're not 40 yet, are you?

SPEAKER_01 47:58

No.

SPEAKER_00 47:58

Four more years. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 47:59

Four more years. Okay, and then it's coming. Yeah, don't worry about it, bro. It's coming. When you turn 40, it's gonna be like, oh, it's gone. Yeah. Hearing aid, get it.

SPEAKER_00 48:06

So yeah. Um, that was it. Um did you step on that, that IED, or was it somebody else? Um, it I don't think anybody stepped on it. And we were like on another, like, it wasn't a fist team, but it was just like similar to it, like a blue patrol. It was maybe 10 meters.

SPEAKER_02 48:22

You were on foot, or you were okay.

SPEAKER_00 48:23

You were on foot, yeah.

unknown 48:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:25

So probably somebody set it off from they saw you guys coming there.

SPEAKER_00 48:28

That's what I would assume. I mean, I just remember the explosion hearing contact ride, and I mean I couldn't breathe.

SPEAKER_01 48:34

Oh, you know.

SPEAKER_00 48:34

Um like because the wing got knocked out of you from the impact of the uh flag jacket stopped a lot of it just here, these two that came in, that's it. But um other than that, uh yeah, it was really scary. I mean, I did not know what to expect. I thought, okay, this is it.

SPEAKER_02 48:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:49

I'm dead. I saw blood.

SPEAKER_02 48:51

I'm like, did they have to do surgery or it was wasn't it was pretty superficial? They could just superficial.

SPEAKER_00 48:57

They pulled it out. I mean, I had like a burn scar.

SPEAKER_02 49:00

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_00 49:00

Very little. Actually, with peptides, I think it's starting to go away. Or I could be wrong. Maybe I'm just getting bigger about it. Um but yeah, so that was that was the only time I I got seriously hurt. I mean, everybody gets hurt, but like, you know, um, I think to uh to receive an award, I don't even want to call it an award because it's not an achievement.

SPEAKER_02 49:19

To the purple heart that you received, right? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:22

So essentially you either have to be injured by the enemy, right? Something serious, whether it's either explosion, gunfire, or something like that, or injured in service of the country, which I guess it's just kind of the same thing.

SPEAKER_05 49:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:34

Because like I had a friend and we were getting mortared one day. When so when mortars hit, you drop to the ground. The sh shrapnel spreads up high.

SPEAKER_05 49:41

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 49:41

He didn't. Took a couple of shrapnel to his leg for being an idiot, and he got a report. You know, he was running scared. I'm like, and then his leg looked like Swiss cheese, but like it wasn't terrible.

SPEAKER_05 49:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:53

You know, but I'm like, you should have just dropped down to the floor, man. Like you didn't. Yeah, yeah. You know, but here's your award. Oh, wait, I mean, you still got no, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:01

I mean, you're still there. Yeah. And then who's to say, like, yeah, I laugh about it, but there's a lot of times high stress, you don't remember the logical thing because that's not the part of your brain that's activated, you know.

SPEAKER_00 50:12

Like Mike Tyson says, everybody has a plan if you get punched in the mouth.

unknown 50:16

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_00 50:17

Um combat for a 20-year-old.

SPEAKER_05 50:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:20

Yeah. Yeah. So it was an interesting experience to say the least. That's why I'm so laid back. I'm like, well, things could be worse.

SPEAKER_01 50:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:27

You know, work sucks, okay.

SPEAKER_01 50:30

Nobody's shooting worse.

SPEAKER_00 50:31

School sucks. Could be worse. I got an argument, okay. Could be worse. It's just worked.

SPEAKER_05 50:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:36

You know, so how'd that go over with your mom when she found out you got injured? Um, because after I got to come home and I had like a couple of like burn scars, you know, a lot of them went away. This this one obviously didn't. Um, I sugar coated it though.

SPEAKER_05 50:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:56

You know. What did you tell her? I just said, oh, like, you know, there's like an explosion far off, and I got like peppered a little bit, not that big of a deal. You know, but I mean, it was bad.

SPEAKER_05 51:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:05

You know, nobody died from that, thankfully. Um, whoever was in the front, I don't know who it was because he wasn't with us, but he lost his arm. So again, it could have definitely been worse. All I had was a few scars and bad equilibrium. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 51:17

Yeah.

unknown 51:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:18

And you downplayed it from all. She knows to this day still, she thinks it's a good one.

SPEAKER_01 51:23

She listens to this.

SPEAKER_00 51:24

For a long time, she thought I was an aircraft mechanic. You know? Wow. So, like, you we have family readiness officers in our units, which is like somebody's like like a like a like an officer's wife, right? And they handle all the family relations, family day, something like that. But also, when something happens, they're the ones who coordinate as well too with the families. Um, so I'm like, hey, like if you ever speak to my mom, just you know, don't let her know anything that we do, just say that I'm I'm doing good.

SPEAKER_01 51:54

Like, let's not use full truths.

SPEAKER_00 51:56

Yeah, you know, let's let's let's protect her. She's very, very religious, you know. So uh you should probably be there praying every single night. So um, yeah, but everything turned out well, you know, thankfully, because she didn't have to really know everything.

SPEAKER_05 52:10

Yeah, good.

SPEAKER_00 52:11

Um, so yeah, that's that's that's pretty much it. I mean mostly to protect her because I I know she was she's not against me being in the military. I guess she was very proud, you know, when she saw me graduate. But um, you know, no mother wants to see their son in that kind of danger.

SPEAKER_02 52:26

And why put her through I can understand why put her through that stress when you can tell her all about it when you're home safe.

SPEAKER_00 52:31

Yeah, yeah. No, agree. What did you what'd you do after that? When did you get out? I got out in 2012. Um so after that, I came back, Camp Pendleton, I did a few beer billets, um, I was a swim instructor and I was a rifle coach. I actually, so prior to getting out, I was going to extend. And this is kind of a silly story. So I actually went for Marslock AS, passed it, did everything qualified for for MarSOC, ready to sign everything over, and I decided to EAS for a girl instead. Oh huge mistake.

SPEAKER_02 53:08

EAS.

SPEAKER_00 53:09

But then again, if I didn't, I wouldn't have met my wife. Yeah, I wouldn't have my pets, you know, I wouldn't probably have gone to school.

SPEAKER_01 53:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:17

Everything for a reason.

SPEAKER_07 53:18

And you probably could have gone on a deployment and not come back. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 53:23

Marshoc stuff is heavy, man. Those dudes are badass.

SPEAKER_02 53:26

Yeah, true.

SPEAKER_07 53:26

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:28

It's interesting. Like, you know, God moves in interesting ways. It's like, let me let me put this girl. I know he's gonna leave for this girl. She's not gonna work out, but don't worry about that. But she's gonna, he's gonna leave for this.

unknown 53:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 53:40

And how so when you got out, what'd you what'd you end up doing? Did you bounce around regular jobs and then end up in fitness?

SPEAKER_00 53:47

Or no, so actually, it's funny because my wife jokes, she says that the reason I didn't die is because God knew I was supposed to meet her.

SPEAKER_03 53:56

Yeah. I love her.

SPEAKER_00 53:57

So that's the reason I I lived, or that's the reason I didn't go to the Mars Acc, which is the Raiders now.

unknown 54:01

I'm like, huh. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 54:03

Yeah. I mean, I have no complaints there, but my life is wonderful with her. Yeah. Um, but after I got out, I still didn't know what I went to do. I knew I had the GI Bill. I went to community college and did an A in general education, didn't take it seriously. I failed algebra twice. Nice. You know, college algebra. Or no, I'll take it in remedial algebra, actually. Math is not my strong suit, but we have calculators.

SPEAKER_01 54:25

Right.

SPEAKER_02 54:26

It needs it. Remember when they uh in like high school, they would be like, you're like, don't rely on your calculator. You're never gonna have one 24-7. And now it's like, hmm. I can literally speak to my phone five plus five.

unknown 54:37

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:38

I have all the conversions right there.

SPEAKER_02 54:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:41

You know. Um, so I graduated with the AA from Broward College, and then that's around the time I met Jillian. I was um my first job was uh security guard at Gulfstream Racetracking Casino.

SPEAKER_05 54:54

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 54:54

Um, and then I started getting like contracting jobs for training. I got like this, you know, crappy online training certificate from Nesta. I started training at the beach club in Hollandel Beach. It's a bunch of rich people personal training? Yep.

SPEAKER_02 55:08

Not like rifle training or anything. No, no, no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_00 55:10

I have no interest in it.

SPEAKER_02 55:11

Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 55:12

It's uh I did it for a little bit in the civilian world, but um, so I did that, and then I ended up working at a gym called Five Fit Boxing MMA. This is where I met my wife. She was actually my client and very unprofessional. But um, yeah, so we that that's how we met. And then she started pushing me to try NSU, which is where she worked at, Nova Southeastern University. And then I'm like, okay, well, I wanted to be a veterinarian, but then I felt bad for putting animals down. I went the pre-med route initially. I did all the think about this for a second.

SPEAKER_07 55:44

You said you felt bad for putting animals down. Yeah. But you go to war and put humans down.

SPEAKER_00 55:50

I mean, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 55:52

It makes perfect sense to me.

SPEAKER_00 55:54

That's attacking dogs.

SPEAKER_02 55:56

That's crazy. So when I led a smoking cessation group for a while, I got to the point where I was like, Do you know that secondhand smoke can harm your pets? And people are like, What? Like, who cares about your your your other people who live with you, human beings, but oh god forbid pets, you know?

SPEAKER_00 56:10

No, that computes, makes sense. Yeah, yeah. So I mean, yeah, I mean, pets, you know, like I I love my pets, I love animals. Yeah, my wife loves animals. Actually, my dog just beat cancer yesterday. So that's that's great. That's awesome, you know. But even then, I'm like, oh God, just take his cancer and give it to me or give it to someone else. You know, I'll give it to my neighbor. I don't like him. So, but um, yeah, yeah. Um, and then went the pre-rem pre-med route, did all the prereqs for that. Um, then I uh went the pre-PT route for physical therapy, just because uh I figured, well, med school is gonna take so long. And then, and this is all while I was in the extra and sports science program, which by the way, you know, statistically is the best feeder program for MDs, DOs, physical therapy, and OTs.

SPEAKER_05 56:57

Right? Makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 56:58

Um the best doctors are sports science graduates, right? Yeah, um so my plan was actually to graduate, go to OCS, go back to the Marine Corps. Um, then I met Dr. Antonio, he's the founder of the ISSN, he's my mentor, my friend, my professor for many years.

SPEAKER_01 57:18

Was he on the the group chat?

SPEAKER_02 57:19

Was that him? The the presentation we did?

SPEAKER_00 57:22

No, no, no.

SPEAKER_02 57:24

Who was that? Okay, never mind.

unknown 57:25

Uh I don't remember.

SPEAKER_02 57:27

The guy who was leading it with you.

SPEAKER_00 57:30

At the that online the osteoporosis. The osteoporosis. Oh no, no, that's Dr. Diaz.

SPEAKER_01 57:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 57:36

He's actually the first transmission coach for American Top Team before it was the HQ.

SPEAKER_05 57:42

Oh, well.

SPEAKER_00 57:42

Yeah, it's in a really small world because then I I became the coach for American Top Team.

SPEAKER_02 57:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 57:47

Um, so where was I?

SPEAKER_02 57:49

Sorry, your mentor.

SPEAKER_00 57:50

Oh, yes, yes, yes. Um, and then I graduated, and then my other uh professor mentor, Dr. Peacock, he's actually the physiologist for Killcliffe. Okay. Um so he put me in in contact with Phil to start an internship at America Top Team. Me, being a huge fan of the UFC and all these fighters, I'm like, oh my God, this is amazing.

SPEAKER_05 58:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:09

Um, so I still wanted to go to OCS, you know. Um, but then I started to work with Phil and everything and all these fighters that I've only seen on TV. One day, Phil, I I I come in, it's like a Thursday or Saturday. I come in, I'm setting off and waiting for Phil, like, hey man, are you coming in? Like, no, no, I'm I'm in, I'm I'm flying to like London or something. I'm like, and he's like, Yeah, I'm gonna need you to hold it down for two weeks. Yeah, I this is I've been maybe three weeks into the internship.

SPEAKER_02 58:38

Heads up, heads up would have been nice.

SPEAKER_00 58:40

Yeah, to the to the sharks right there. Yeah, just like the military, I got thrown into the fire and I had to essentially down to overcome. And then I started to realize, wow, I'm actually pretty good at this. People give me good responses and feedback. I'm like, let me give this a shot. Then NSU opened up their master's program, the first one, right? And I was the first class to graduate from that program, which was sports science. I'm like, okay, this is great. I think I'm I'm gonna keep doing this. Maybe I'll go the research. At that time, I was I already started doing research. My first research was on HMB and how it would help fighters um for weight cuts or just overall body composition.

SPEAKER_07 59:15

I think pause for a second. Like American top team is a big deal, right? Because I mean, that's to this day, if you know MMA, that's still one of the top teams in in the sport, right? They produce a plethora of champions from there. You're looking at, you know, Arlovsky came from there, freaking Joanna Joe and Jake Czech, um Amanda Dusty. Masvidal. Like all Amanda Nunes. Amanda Nunes, like all these big name fighters came. Poirier, like these huge names in MMA and former champions came from that team. So that's crazy to start working with me. Michael Chandler, like, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 59:53

And I was just a fanboy. Like, so during those two weeks that he was gone, I had to train Joanna at the time, multiple time world champion, like the most dominant 115 fighter in the world, probably. I'm just like, you know, I kept it together, but when I got home, I just fanboyed out to my wife.

SPEAKER_08 1:00:09

I'm like, oh my god, he's I had to train Johanna, you're on J Czech. Like she shook my hand.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:14

Yeah. So yeah, it was a really good experience. Uh, you know, um, unintentionally, I think what Phil did really uh helped me a lot. Okay. It made me realize you know what I wanted to do and then I'm actually good at this. Yeah. Then after the master's program, um, Dr. Antonio and some of my other classmates pushed me to pursue a PhD. So the first one I looked at was University of Miami with uh Dr. Brian Mann. He's the godfather of velocity-based training.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:40

Yeah, I've heard of the name.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:42

We've met him at Summer Strong. Yeah, very hard to miss. He has a birthmark in his face. Um but at the time, I guess the program was suffering. Um, I was trying to get in with a grant. They essentially removed all grants from the program, and um, and he ended up leaving somewhere else. And I think about a year was like six, it was like ridiculous, like sixty-seven thousand or something, yeah. Like I I could for what a piece of paper? Yeah, University of Miami screen. So I ended up going to uh Rocky Mountain University of Health Professions, which is a medical school, but they offer a lot of allied health programs. So my PhD is in um health sciences with a concentration in human and sports performance. Um and the biggest uh focuses of my research have always been ergogenic age or supplements, anabolic anerogenic substances, uh strength and conditioning, and then a little bit of neuroscience specifically for neurosports.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:39

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:40

Um and that's where I'm at now. I'm currently in the dissertation phase. I finished the didactic portion of it. And that's just kind of a waiting game.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:47

Nice.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:48

Um, it's not being fun though. I'll say that.

SPEAKER_07 1:01:50

Yeah, it's a lot of so how you went from skipping 72 days, yeah, senior year high school, failing college math, to the Marine Corps, oh three. So 0311, doing infantry stuff, which people will be like, ooh, caveman, me, me, me bad, you know, and then now you're all that academic stuff.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:11

Yeah, and I think it's a good balance. I think people should strive for that. Um, I know like you know, in like the art of war, you hear stuff like that, but I'm a firm believer that if we draw too far too far of a divide from our um warriors and our scholars, then we'll have our fighting done by idiots or thinking done by cowards. Who said that? Who that's an idiom from Is it from the Art of War?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:31

No, somebody said.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:32

Is it a Greece? I feel like I've heard it on all the younger, but I think it is a paraphrasing from the Art of War.

SPEAKER_07 1:02:38

Yeah. Okay. Because I mean, this is essentially for years, like, you know, throughout the history of man, it wasn't there wasn't a separation between the intellectuals and fighters, right? It was the same thing. You had to have it's a different area of people, like a physical development, a mental development, and everybody invested in everything. So the guys that fought wars were also guys that sought wisdom.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:01

And that's why people who who have um military experience are, especially combat military experience, are so much more favorable when they run for like president or high office.

SPEAKER_07 1:03:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:14

And I I think there's And that's how it used to be, right?

SPEAKER_07 1:03:18

Well, yeah, and and if you were gonna be king, you have to come up, you know, you have to be a knight first, right? And that sort of thing. This is back to the to the Middle Ages and that sort of thing, or shoguns in Japan, you know, you came up or the king or the leader was the person who won the war. Or if you were born to it, like you were gonna be, oh, I'm a prince, but they you spent a lot of time developing as a warrior before you could take the seat. Um, it it doesn't, it's funny because yes, the ASVAB requirements for infantry are usually very low, right? So, but you get a lot of, especially in the Marine Corps. That's something that I noticed working with Marines that and after 9-11, a lot of guys with higher education went into the Marine Corps. And so you it wasn't uncommon to meet an E5 with a master's degree. You know what I mean? It wasn't uncommon to meet an E6 that worked on Wall Street before he joined the Marine Corps because he wanted to fight after 9-11 and then you know go back to Wall Street afterwards. Jake is a great example, right? He was in 0311 and then he went to work in Wall Street stuff right after, got a math degree and became a freaking trader, right? And now he's a farmer. But it it's something also supposedly the Marine Corps has the highest concentration of uh higher education per capita, right? So the the you didn't know that? I did not know that.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:43

We always say they eat crayons, right?

SPEAKER_07 1:04:44

Yeah, yeah, yeah. They they talk about you guys eating crayons and stuff, but supposedly you'd think it'd be the Air Force, right? That they have the most advanced degrees, but supposedly it's the Marine Corps that has the most advanced degrees.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:55

I mean, uh, you know, not just that joke, like we're we're dumb, we're eat crayons, but you know, I mean, not just the Marine Corps, any ground unit, infantry, like tactics is not an easy or layman's like no, you know, task. It's like try to play chess. Yep. Okay, and see how good you are against someone who can play chess.

SPEAKER_07 1:05:13

Try to play chess with bullets flying over your head, two radios going off, like it's it's it's chaos. It's chaos, but but it's also it, you know, you're reading the ground and you're anticipating things like it, it's all hard. And you're running a machine gun. That's not easy. You know, you put the dumbass on the machine gun, but that's why people and it makes me so frustrated.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:33

Says my my father's the same way, um Woody, because he didn't graduate college or anything like that. But you put any sort of machine, he can build anything. Like, just because you don't have a piece of paper from a university doesn't mean you're not intelligent.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:49

And there's just, and we've talked about this before, especially with military stuff. Everything that you said that you have to be able to do, how do you put that on a resume to show that, hey, I can do all This stuff, but it it doesn't equate to civilian life that's programmed to say, but you don't have a master's from this college, you know.

SPEAKER_07 1:06:07

Yeah, so it's funny because I mean to somebody listening, they might be like, Oh, from infantry to like a doctor, that's that that's weird. But to me, it's like, no, it it computes, yeah, you know, especially with all the physical stuff, like you know, you kind of have to be a little bit of a meathead to be in the Marine Corps and then go and transition into training at that point.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:29

Yeah, yeah, because we had something called the Sempre Fit Program, which is part of the single marine program, but essentially it's promoting because PT protocols, training protocols for most branches really suck.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:42

And they're just to get you the door.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:44

No sense. Yeah. You know, um the Marine Corps has the MACE, the Marine Corps Academy of or the Martial Arts Center of Excellence. They actually do strength and engineering very well. Some tier one units do very well, but everything else is just doesn't make sense. Like you're doing like crossfare works on this stuff, like so that's one thing that got me interested at first, and which would kind of cross over into my studies later on, is trying to help develop a program within the separate fit program just for my unit. It wasn't like a you know, marine corps wide thing just for my unit. How can we do things better? You know, and one of them was like maybe don't focus so much on you know long distance runs.

SPEAKER_07 1:07:21

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:22

True.

SPEAKER_07 1:07:22

Yeah, I I got it's and that's baked into the culture. And now with all the APFTs and stuff, and and the Marine Corps PFTs that are more strength-based, you know, like carry these ammo cans, resistance, sprint over here, you know, that sort of thing, drag this dummy over here. Deadlifts are in the in the army one now. I'm just like, I wonder how they're doing this. Like, how did that shift the culture in any way, or guys still trying to go on 10 mile runs at the drop of a hat, which it's like, ooh, you know, is that the best way to create a war fighter, you know?

SPEAKER_00 1:07:57

Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of stuff changed, especially for the army. Um, I think your guys' A APFT was desstandardized just recently. And now they're working uh so a lot a lot of the guys from the TSAC from the NSA stuff, they work for like those government organizations, and they're trying to essentially restructure the entire uh PFT you guys have in the army. Um they probably should do it for the Marine Corps too. I think their first uh project was the CFT, and I think it works very well, the combat fitness test, which is the you know, quarter mile sprint, the drag, the grenade throw, the maneuvering or like those T test kind of things. Um I think it still has a lot of work to do.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:34

Sounds like like a strong manner hybrid games. Yeah. It does, it sounds like that.

SPEAKER_07 1:08:38

I the Marine Corps fitness culture is way like out of all the branches, I think the fitness culture in the Marine Corps is way higher, the standards way higher. Um obviously the requirements are way higher than the other.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:51

Well, it's because they wear the little the rain the little panties.

SPEAKER_07 1:08:54

They do wear the silkies and then they tuck their shirt in skin tight so you can't be fat. You know, so it is it it's but I don't know, it's just the fitness culture is way bigger. Like more people like to work out for fun, not just for work in the Marine Corps than in the other branches of service. So it doesn't, you know, it just ingrained.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:14

So I think we should start talking about um your current uh like studies, research, and things like that. So I think we should yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:09:22

So we'll first of all, I had this here. We're supposed to give you the start of the show. This is a pharmaphobic shirt. We're starting a tradition for all the alumni of the show. We give them a pharmaphobic shirt. We usually do it off air, but I figured we should do it on air because I we never talk about these shirts. They have this thing in the back. This is the thing because and Jose, if you wear this, you you will you'll only get two reactions. You'll get somebody be like, What are you trying to say? Or you'll get somebody be like, Yeah. That's it. There's no in between, right? Either you piss them off or they're like, Yeah. But the whole thing is we put what we see as the solution to the health problem in the back, right? It's like little, you know, rest, recovery, weight training. It's like a compass, like a connection, social connection, like this is the way, right? The dealing with the health mess that we're in. Hey, that's for you. Thank you for coming on the show. Um, we're gonna wrap this one up and we'll come to a part two where we're gonna talk, we're gonna get nerdy with it. Talk some science. So, hey, thank you for being here. Thank you for having me. Thank you for the stories.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:28

Yes, thank you. Thank you for your service.

SPEAKER_07 1:10:30

Yeah. And that's gonna be it. Janie, where can they find us?

SPEAKER_02 1:10:34

Um, our website, achieve the lifestyle.com. You can email us at info at achievethelifestyle.com or um hit us up in the DMs. Where it do go down on Instagram at Achieve the Lifestyle.

SPEAKER_07 1:10:47

And guys, till the next one, stay pharma free. Thanks for listening to the pharmaphobic podcast. If you found this conversation interesting, which I know you did, make sure to follow us on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcast. And also make sure to check us out on Instagram at Achieve the Lifestyle. And if you're interested in pursuing a stronger, healthier, more capable version of yourself, check out our website at achievethlifestyle.com.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:14

The pharmaphobic podcast is for informational and entertainment purposes only. The views expressed are those of the hosts and guests and do not constitute medical, legal, or professional advice. Always consult a qualified healthcare provider before making any medical or wellness decisions. While we discuss pharmaceutical, holistic, and alternative health topics, our content is not a substitute for professional medical guidance.