Pickleball Passion: Ali and Ike Adventures Share Their Journey from Beginners to National Champions

In this episode, we're joined by Ali and Ike from Ali and Ike Adventures, certified pickleball coaches and competitors who have made a significant impact on the Cincinnati pickleball scene. From their chance meeting at Middletown Pickleball Association to Ike's national bronze medal, they share insights that will benefit players of all levels.

Episode Highlights:

• [00:01:30] How Ali and Ike each discovered pickleball around 2020, initially with skepticism that quickly turned to enthusiasm
• [00:06:45] The story of how they met through the Women's Pickleball League and instantly connected as partners
• [00:10:20] Their journey to becoming PPR-certified coaches and founding Ali and Ike Adventures
• [00:14:40] Advice for beginners: Using the Pickle Play app, finding friendly courts, and considering lessons
• [00:17:15] Tips for advanced players: Focus on drilling over games and understand your personal pickleball goals
• [00:20:30] Ike's path to winning a national bronze medal in singles competition
• [00:26:15] How pickleball creates community and competitive opportunities for all ages, including Ike's 83-year-old mother
• [00:30:10] Cincinnati's growing pickleball scene: The Pickle Lodge, Middletown's 27 courts, and the National Pickleball League
• [00:34:25] The mental game of pickleball: Developing quick decision-making through consistent drilling

Connect with Ali and Ike:

• Website: aliandikeadventures.com
• Instagram/Facebook: @aliandikeadventures
• Email: aliandikeadventures@gmail.com

Resources Mentioned:

• Pickle Play App: Essential tool for finding pickleball courts anywhere
• Pickle Lodge: Cincinnati facility where Ali and Ike coach
• PPR Certification: Professional Pickleball Registry coaching certification
• National Pickleball League (NPL): Senior-focused competitive league

Cincinnati Area Pickleball Locations:

• Middletown Pickleball Association (MPA): 27 courts with camera system
• JFK Park in Kettering (Dayton area): Organized court monitor system
• Five Seasons in Dayton: Indoor tennis facility with pickleball courts

Stay connected for upcoming clinics in Wisconsin and international pickleball adventures in Sicily!

Transcript

Welcome to the show. Thank you. Today I've got Ali and Ike from Ali and Ike Adventures.

So, so glad to have you guys on the show with me today. Thanks Faye. Yeah, welcome.

All of a sudden we got really quiet. We're recording, you guys are quiet. We're so quiet.

No, no, it's great, it's great. Hey, so take me back, when did you guys, when did you guys get bitten by the pickleball bug? When did you guys start pickleball? Tell me a little bit about your journey. Do, yeah, go, go for it.

I started in 2020 right before COVID and it was with a group of teachers who were playing in the gym and they explained it to me as like a, like a hybrid of ping pong and tennis. And I was like, oh, I love both of those things. And then I think from the first goal, I was, I was pretty hooked.

Yeah. And then COVID came, school shut down and I was like, oh my God, where do I go? What do I do? And so found the local courts and then just started going out there playing and meeting a ton of people. That's awesome.

Do you have a background in tennis or a background in? I played tennis in high school, but it was like, yeah, but it was like, if you came out for the team, you were on the team. So it wasn't like. Superstar.

Yeah. I got you. No, I'm just kidding.

Yeah, go ahead. And you played college basketball. Nice.

So very athletic, right? Try. Yeah. Yeah.

That's awesome. That's awesome. Yeah.

So I played in high school. I played tennis in high school and I played in other sports also, like multiple different sports. My parents knew that I needed to be active out of the gate.

So it's very active, like something every season. And then during so tennis. And then Kevin, my husband and I played tennis.

Even we took rec lessons together when we lived in Minnesota, etc. And then during COVID, our 28 year old son was 25 at the time. He anyway, we we played a lot of tennis and I was playing with a 25 year old guy singles and we would laugh when we saw we saw pickleball people.

We'd be like pickleball. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So we'd go to Sawyer Point and we just like walk past those people.

And then we play. A friend of mine invited me to play pickleball. And then Kevin and I, my husband, I played with him and his wife.

And I was like jamming. I was like slamming it. But I was like, oh, my gosh, this is so fun.

Yeah. And then lo and behold, we would do we traveled a lot. Kevin, I traveled and we use the pickle play app.

We found pickleball courts at different places. Every time I went to a pickleball court, I wrote down notes like, oh, my gosh, that person just taught me something. Oh, my gosh, that person.

So it just grew and grew and grew. And then, I mean, here we are today. Here we are.

Atlantic Adventures doing things. So how long have you been playing then? Four years. Just four years.

Yes. Is that right? Yes. 2022.

2022. What? Three years. Four years.

Somewhere in there. Yeah. Yeah.

Very cool. Very cool. Yeah.

Maybe it was 22. Yeah. So how long have you guys known each other? And what did you guys? I think it was two years.

Two years. I think two years we met in Middletown. It seems like a lifetime.

I feel like it's been so much longer. In a good way. Yeah, for sure.

In a good way, we met at Middletown Pickleball. Yeah. MPA! And we, with the Women's Pickleball League.

Yeah. Nice. Yeah.

And I saw Ike and I was like, oh, this seems like a cool cat. And the weather, the weather was starting getting cooler. It was at night.

And then, so we had to take something to keep us warm, like a little shot of something. And all the girls would gather around and have a small talk. We had.

Have some small talk. And drinks. Yeah.

And then, next thing you know, I think I invited Ike to come and play because the weather was getting colder. I invited you to come play in Dayton. Yes.

At the tennis club there. Five seasons. And then we started, like, we just, we had a gel right away.

Yeah. And it was interesting because, like, I felt that. But then, like, people we were playing against were like, how long you guys been playing with each other? We're like, it's like the second time we've really played with each other.

But it was just so fun and competitive. And yeah, I loved it. So I wanted to have her sign the contract.

You can only be my partner. You can only play with me. Yeah.

That's cool. Yeah. So how did you guys get the Adventures thing started? Ali and Ike Adventures.

Oh, there's a cat. Yeah, we have a cat in here. Oh my gosh, that's awesome.

There's actually some background noise. We're recording in my barn. I've got contractors out there working on our pond.

It's beautiful. If you're looking for a wedding, you guys got to come out here. Oh, there's barns, bananas.

It's beautiful. The beams, the lights, the view, the pond. Thank you.

It's a good vibe. It's a good vibe. We started to decide on Ali and Ike Adventures.

We started playing. Like Ali said, we really gelled out of the gate. And then I would like to shout out to Roxanne and Craig from MPA, who we met.

And they also play at Pickle Lodge. Really awesome people. And Craig said one time, he goes, you know what? When you meet those people that you just really gel with, you got to hold on.

Take that and run with it. And so we out of the gate were like, let's play. We played a lot of games together.

And we just got to know each other's game more and more and more. So that was fun. And then we did Women's League.

And we always cheered each other on, no matter what courts we were on. It's like the game shoots and ladders, up and down on the ladder league. And so we always were encouraging to each other.

And then we both, Ali's a teacher and is an amazing teacher. And I've been in Ali's school. She's beloved in her school.

It's just, it's so awesome. Your students, your staff, et cetera. We decided, hey, we really both wanted to learn more.

And we both wanted to get certified. We're like, boy, it'd be really cool to teach. And we both wanted that.

So we found, we reached out to some MPA friends, CeCe and Michelle. Yay. A little shout out.

Yeah, Carol Gould and Michelle Gould. And helped us, like get us on the path to start getting certified. And then from that certification, we got another certification.

But that all was like the impetus for us. We both wanted to learn. We both wanted to teach.

And we just kept rolling forward. And they're like, you know, why don't we do more of this? And then shout out to Allison Cormiens, who's with the Pickle Lodge, who's like, I will help you. Let me help you support.

You'd like, this is how websites work. This is how businesses work. And she's been so helpful to us and really, really kind.

Yep. And the adventure part came in. Oh, yeah.

We sat and we thought about it. Yeah, because like through this journey, we've just been open to a lot of opportunities. Yeah.

And like we've done commentating. For the National Pickleball League. Come on.

Yes. That's pretty cool. It's the pros versus joes.

It was so fun. Everybody was so kind. And but we just think like Pickleball is so new.

And there's so many opportunities for growth in certain directions. So we wanted to leave it open. And like we want to do pickleball travel and stuff like that.

So we wanted to be an adventure and have fun. So that's that's where the name came from. That's awesome.

Very cool. Very cool. The coaching part.

How like what was that process like to like how long and like arduous or whatever. The first the first time we did was I F P A something something. But the second one, which we thought was really, really helpful to us was PPR certification.

And that was when we were with Pickle Lodge. They helped us decide that that's what Pickle Lodge uses as PPR. PPR.

PPR. Yep. So all coaches who coach at the Pickle Lodge are PPR certified.

So that was a matter of hours of videos doing some coursework. And then we did a in week a weekend in person. And then we did a test.

So two actually. Two tests. You're right.

Yeah. We had a test where we give a lesson. And then we had like the written test.

Right. Computer. Yeah.

Right. Right. And then we were around other people who wanted to do the same thing so we could really like learn from others also.

And then I came from I coached swim team for youth back in the day through the YMCA. Okay. And then I also coached with the Great Miami Rowing Club.

I think. Anyway, I was a rowing coach for junior high schoolers also. So that that coaching piece was just in my heart.

Right. Yeah. Yeah.

That's cool. That's cool. Advice to beginners.

What would you what would you say for maybe people just starting out? Would it be drills or do lessons? What what's your advice to beginners? First, I want to say download the Pickle Play app. It's going to tell you the nearest courts in any location that you're at. So if you go on vacation, you can find the pickleball courts nearest you and also come check us out.

We have clinics. We have lessons. But just go get to the courts and you're going to love it.

You're going to be hooked. Ike, what would you say? Yeah, I would totally agree. If you have a desire to learn about the sport, it's really a couple different ways you can go about it.

One is find the court. Like Ali said, Pickle Play app is great because you can find it. Then if you don't know anybody and you're there, you look for those people who are like, they look like they're friendly.

And I know that sounds really silly, but in the world of pickleball, it's part of our culture because we've all been new to this sport. Somebody has helped us. So we have this desire and there's a culture of like, let's help those behind us to come up.

So you're going to find not every single person on the court is going to be there. But there are a lot of people who are like, oh, let me just teach you how to play. And a lot of people will give you one game or two games or whatnot to get you started or go with a group of your friends and be like, let's figure this out and look at a couple of YouTube videos and figure it out.

Or you go to a lesson and that you can go on different websites to find lessons. You can look at places like the Pickle Lodge and you can be like, OK, I want to join a lesson. I could do a group lesson.

I could do a single lesson. We do lessons. To that point, it's good to have just that starting point because pickleball is such an early success sport.

And then you're continually trying to get better and better, better. But everyone can walk away after an hour and go, I know how to do this. Right.

Which is really, really cool. Yeah. When I started playing, I was kind of shocked how open everybody was.

The community is like so wide open and accepting and bringing people in and saying, hey, come and play. Yeah, no, it's it's it's something else. I mean, yeah, I think as you know, because I played a lot of tennis, it's not really like that, right? It's like it's kind of closed off, you know, and I don't I don't know of any other sports that are like open, like, hey, come on in, you know.

So, yeah, I've gone I've gone by our parks and I'm just, you know, I'm driving by with my paddle and I'm like, you know, hey, can I hit? And they're like, yeah, come on in. So, right. And that's not it's very, very unique, very unique.

Yeah. When Kevin and I were visiting Jacksonville, Florida, three years ago, four years ago, somewhere in there, the dates are all a mishmash with the COVID. But we were at a park and this is Verna Griffith.

And we tell the story of Jacksonville, Florida. They named the pickleball park after her. She's like 80 some years old.

The very first night I just I found it on the pickle play up. I texted somebody and said, is there open player? How does this work? And she said, I'll be there. I'll come on over.

And so she had some people and she's like, let's just teach you. This is what you want to do. And she was just out of the very goodness of her heart.

Right, right. This is what I do. I love helping people.

I mean, she teaches lessons also. She's PPR certified also. There are so many people out there who want to help people.

Yeah, it's pretty neat. I was going to say, and now Ike is a national singles champion. Yeah, at my age group, at my level.

And thank you. And thank you. Congrats.

Tell us about that. There's a golden ticket tournaments that are put on. There's it's UTR, APP, and the USTA have what's called the golden ticket tournaments where you the Blastic Classic over the last two years, at least.

That's why I know because of two years I've done it. And Cincinnati was a golden ticket event. So Ali and I competed in it.

I competed in singles. And last year, two years ago, I was in singles. I did not come away with a win, but because there weren't that many people in singles, we got into nationals.

So that's like the ticket international. So then you go and it was very fun. And Ali came and friends came.

And it was so fun. And we watched our buddies who were now pros also. And it was so fun.

So fun. So then last year, I went back again for another golden ticket. We played our best for our doubles.

Then for singles, I wasn't. I won, won, won. And then I lost.

And I lost. And then there was rain. And I had to slow down.

And we all had to like stop and go to our cars. And then I went down by the river in Cincinnati. And there was some guy, like literally, it was like a guy by the river.

But he was this pickleball guy. And I'm like, oh, Selkirk. We're Selkirk advocates.

He had a Selkirk shirt on. So we were able to talk Selkirk, which is awesome. Yay, Selkirk.

And then this guy was amazing. He's like, I'm gonna give you a couple tips. So I'm like, what do you think about singles? He's like, oh, I coach singles.

I'm like, you do? Come on. So I'm like, what do you think? So he gave me some tips. Totally worked.

I won the rest of my games. Turn it around. I turned it around.

I won the gold. And then so then I got the ticket into nationals. And then nationals was in Mesa, Arizona.

And there's a long story short there. My family came to visit. And I got a medal at nationals.

That's very cool. Yeah, it was really fun. Congratulations.

Thank you. That's awesome. That's my best friend.

It was bronze. I was trying to be honest. But it was still a medal.

I don't think. Hey, a medal's a medal. Exactly.

A nationally pepped. That's amazing. I know it.

We keep. But we click. I'm sorry.

Sorry. It's a funny little story. At nationals, they had to combine our two age groups together.

So it's supposed to be 50 to 55 and then 56 to 59. But they smashed everyone together. So technically, out of that big group, I came in fourth.

So I didn't think I won. And so I said to my cousins who were visiting. I'm like, let's go.

We'll go cheer. I go clap for the folks who won. So we walk over.

And they go, you actually won. Yeah, we were waiting for you. And I'm like, what? And so I won bronze.

And they said, we're going to do the medal ceremony all over again for you. So they had the fiery things going. And I literally yelled, this is the best day of my life.

Oh, my gosh. You totally missed the medal ceremony because you thought you'd get fourth. Yeah, exactly.

Hilarious. That's a cool story. It was fun.

That's so fun. And even that, it's such a welcoming. Yeah.

Everyone's a winner. It was just fun. That's so cool.

Very cool. Hey, so your advice, that was advice to beginners. What's your advice to more advanced players, I guess? I mean, kind of the same thing.

Get a lesson. Go out. Play, play, play.

Definitely depends on what they want out of it. So if you want to continue to get better, I think you should be doing drills more so than the rec play. And just have that focus.

Play less games. Agreed. Yep, yep.

And so when we teach beginners, a lot of times we start with asking the question, what do you want to get out of this? Knowing that that can change also. But some people want to come to Pickleball to meet new people and have fun. And that is awesome.

And then some people are like, I want to be in tournaments. I want to get better. I want a medal.

And some people are like, I just personally want to be on a journey and get better and better and better. And so a lot of times, understanding your own desire for it. And that can change.

Your goals. Right, right. That that is so important to know.

Like, OK, if you want to get better and you do like to Ali's point, take lessons, do drills. And like a lot of times, and this is a Verna thing, too. Verna had said, you're going to you're going to take a lesson and you're going to we always tell people this when they're taking lessons from us.

You're going to learn it. And then you're a lot's going to happen in your brain. And you're going to walk away from the lesson, go play and then continue with your drills until your next lesson.

But you're you're going to probably have some dips because you're like trying to learn skills and incorporate them and muscle memory. And then you're going to get it and you're going to get better and you're going to plateau again. And then you want to that could take between a week to a month to a quarter, whatever.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Kevin talked about that a little bit.

He's like, you know, you build up, you get to so high and then all of a sudden you kind of plateau off. So, yeah. Same with his advice.

It was to take a lesson and that'll kind of kick it into gear a little bit. That's a good way to put it in there. So, yeah.

Yeah. Very cool. Very cool.

You guys both teach at the Pickle Lodge, right? We do. Or both coach there? Yes, we do. Like a lot? Like every day, every other day? In the summer, we're there more often.

Alley-o's. Yeah, yeah. Because you're not teaching.

But since I live in Dayton and I teach in Huber Heights, it's like an hour for me to get to the Pickle Lodge. So it's hard during the week. But on the weekends, yeah.

Interesting. I just thought of this. My wife's cousin lives up there and she's also a teacher.

At Rushmore? I don't know. I don't know. I think it's Huber Heights.

Amy Armantrout. Oh, okay. Little side note there.

Okay. Hi, Amy. Shout out to Amy.

Yeah. Go get them, Amy. What can you tell my listeners? What's good? Well, come to the Pickle Lodge.

If you guys haven't come out, we have open play. We have tournaments. We have lessons.

And a lot of for beginners, a lot for intermediate and higher levels. So whatever your level is, there's something for you there. And with the weather turning nice, there's so many courts outside now that you can play.

So Pickle Play app is going to help you find those courts. It's free. So I always recommend that you go to the Pickle Play app.

And shout out to Middletown. Middletown. There's so many courts.

27 courts. That's awesome. You're always going to get a game there.

They have the camera up. So yeah, you know if there's people there. Right.

And so many great people. And so many great people that go to different places, go to different places. So we end up seeing each other at different courts.

And different events and stuff like that. Yeah, that's cool. How was the scene up in Dayton? Do you play a lot in Dayton? Or is it mostly down here? Oh, I feel like it's mostly down here now.

But we have JFK Park in Kettering, which is great. They have a whole system. They have court monitors.

So if you're new, you're going to feel welcome. They're going to let you know how we do it. Where's the challenge court? What's the paddle system? So they have a really great system there.

Oh, and that's a good point for beginners too. Every court may have their own little nuance of how to get into games. Some courts, people put their paddles on the ground next to the net.

Some courts, there's a paddle holding station or something. Right, right. Some people are just playing on their own.

And most people don't. But you just kind of find the way it works there. You can ask somebody, how does it work here? And people are usually really helpful.

Yeah, very cool. Yeah. How can people get a hold of you guys? Well, we have a couple of different ways.

You can go to our website at allyandikeadventures.com or you can find us on Instagram or Facebook at allyandikeadventures. Yes. And if you want to email, it's allyandikeadventures at gmail.com. And then we're also putting out a clinic, some clinics in Wisconsin this summer.

That's going to happen. We're traveling and doing that. And then we're going to add some more into that.

And we're going to add more. Sicily. Sicily is coming to Italy.

Yeah, Sicily is coming up soon. One thing I want to say is since we teach a lot of beginners and we're mostly just teaching adults right now, one thing we notice is that growth mindset as you get older. People aren't as comfortable being in uncomfortable positions where they don't know what to do or they think they should be perfect right out of the gate.

So we really celebrate small victories or, hey, you did learn this. And it's okay not to know how to do this. Don't be afraid to come out and try something new because it is so fun.

And it's just a big community that is going to be so much more than just pickleball. Yeah, I think you're so right. We've had people come to our lessons who want to do it all right away.

And it's been really amazing to see growth and understanding of, oh, this takes time and I'm learning new things still. And I'm having fun and I'm meeting new people. Those things happen out of the gate.

And that growth mindset of just taking it one step at a time and really being okay with learning. And we've had people, I think three people have told me in the last week, and this is common and I think we all hear it. People literally said, pickleball has changed my life.

Boy, I need pickleball so much. Boy, pickleball just really made my day today. Boy, I really needed to play today.

I think, sorry, I feel like since COVID, right? Like COVID happened, right? Everybody's on lockdown and stuff like that. And it's like, people need that interaction, right? And I think pickleball is so good for that. I think there's going to be science that's going to come out even more.

I think there are already some really good science articles about pickleball and the camaraderie, the interconnectedness. So it's anti-isolation, the athleticness, the non-sedentary life. Those pieces are so important.

The competitiveness. Yes, yes. I forget who I was talking to.

And maybe it was your husband, but talking about, or maybe it was Mitch talking about like, as an adult being competitive again, right? Because we all did it like in high school, right? Playing sports and stuff like that. But since then, it's like, how many competitive things have we done since then? Right, right. And you get to do it again.

We get to play. Yeah, yeah. And it's fun.

Yeah, it's a workout. We get to play. Mitch has some good words about the pickle lodge or the pickleball courts, aka the pickle lodge being the third place.

Like being that place where people can gather and go and your friends are there and you're meeting new people. And I love his analogy of the third place. It's a really great, even there's a written article he's written about it, which is really, really wonderful.

I'll have to look that up. That's awesome. Sometimes we, I think we've seen this and this is, oh, I'm back up.

Okay. One thing that I think we love talking with people about is like what they want out of pickleball because not everybody does want the same thing. And I think being okay with it, understanding that even when you're playing, because we always are playing with different people in pickleball, which is such a unique thing to this sport also.

And being able to understand maybe what your new partner may be wanting out of it and having that communication about that, not to be sitting down and be like, what are your life's goals and your hopes and dreams? But just to say, hey, I'm working on this in the game. What are you working on? Or this is what I want into the game. What do you want? I think it's a really good way to start with somebody who may not know very well.

And I know that Kevin always says, you're meeting somebody for 15 minutes. You're going to have a conversation. This is a 15 minute relationship or it can be longer.

Who knows? So make that what you can out of that. I think, especially for women that didn't get, like older women who didn't get a chance to participate in athletics, like this is like they're athletes now. This is your chance.

Yeah, they're athletes now. And I think there's a pride in that. And I know for my mom, she didn't play sports.

Oh, talk about your mom. Yeah. My mom, she's 83 and she plays pickleball.

So she goes to the senior center in Beaver Creek and she can play with her grandkids. She can play with me. So it's great for those bonding moments.

And it's keeping her active. She loves it. And we are so happy that she has pickleball.

That's cool. Yeah. I introduced my dad to pickleball, I think it was last fall or after our wedding season ended, right? I invited him down to the Y and he came in and played.

I think for the first time. And now he's all into it. He's all in? Yeah.

He's playing at a rec center up in Troy. So that's where he lives. Schroeder? No, it's... Plex, pickleplex.

No, it's Lincoln. It's Lincoln Rec Center, I think. Something like that.

Awesome. But yeah, he plays up there. And I've gone and played with him a couple of times and went up there.

I think it was just last week and recorded a podcast up there. With your dad? Well, not with my dad. There's a coach.

Not you, dad. There's been a guy that's been coming in there. Do you guys know James Lawson? I think so.

I think I know his name. Yeah, so he's from up there. He actually teaches at Wright State.

And anyways, he coaches up there and goes in there every other Wednesday and gives them some lessons and tips and stuff like that. So your dad takes lessons? Well, yeah. I mean, whoever comes in there on a Wednesday.

It's a great sport. It's such a great sport. Yeah.

Oh, and we also want to shout out the NPL. Because their main goal was to keep... Like you said, the competitive nature for seniors. So it's like the league is like 50 and up.

And these are like great athletes. Great athletes. They're so nice, so helpful.

And they come to the Pickle Lodge. So far, they've come like twice in a year for their season. And they travel.

And Columbus has a team. And we met some really good people through the NPL. Right.

And one of the owners is from Cincinnati. One of the owners from Indianapolis. I don't know where the third owner is from.

But Rick Witskin, when he did the Joes versus Pros. I mean, he's like one of the owners. And he was so fun.

He just made it fun. And you're like... And Beth Bellamy. Yep, yep.

I don't know any of these names. So kind. Real live human beings who just are so gracious.

She has her own paddles. You know what I mean? So yeah. Pro XR.

Come on. Let's go, Beth. Yay.

And she lived in Dayton, Oakwood. And played professionally in tennis. And just a great athlete.

And she helped started the NPL. And it's just a great league. So fun to watch.

So yeah. That's awesome. Congrats to them.

And much growth. And all the best as the next year starts. All the best.

That's awesome. Any final thoughts or stories? Now's your time. We'll be back tomorrow.

Just kidding. That's right. This has become a daily thing.

Right. Can you just interview us always? That's right. Please never stop.

I think one of the unique things about Pickleball is this model of meeting new people and getting on the court with someone, whether you know them or not, the four people you're on the court with, you might be the opponent of someone that you know that you're going to then be the partner with. Because of the way Pickleball, we usually switch up. And not always, but that's a very common thing to do.

And I think that non-spoken social structure of the game is really important. We are, I think there's a lot of banter and a lot of jovialness. And there's more of a closeness than tennis because tennis, you're so far away.

You're not having that. So just bringing that together, you're bringing people together. And therefore, there's jovialness.

Therefore, there's camaraderie. Therefore, there's competition. Yeah.

And there's a lot more partnerships too, right? Because a lot of tennis, it's like the singles is more popular than the doubles. Even though, gosh, I loved watching the Bryan Brothers play doubles tennis, right? Because it's so fast, right? Anyways, it was fun to watch those highlights or whatever. But it was never the main thing.

The main thing was always the singles. But in Pickleball, it's reversed, right? Because it's two people, the teamwork and stuff like that. Right, right.

Interesting. I did have a question about the mental game. You got to make decisions so quick.

Yes. And I'm like, and when I'm on the court, I don't know if it's just reflex doing that or if that's something that can be like- That muscle memory. Yeah.

Maybe it's just muscle memory where you got to train it, train it, train it, train it. But it's like, is it going to land in the kitchen? Do you let it land? Do you hit it out of the air? Is it going to be out? You got to make these split second decisions. What's your advice to, I guess, instructor train towards that? Yeah.

I don't necessarily do it. But I would say just move your feet, be ready to go. Sometimes I feel like I get planted and I'm not always ready.

But as a coach, I understand what I'm supposed to do. But as far as gameplay, just being able to move your feet, get to the ball. And that's my advice.

Yes. I totally agree. Yes.

And drill. And to your point, the muscle memory. The muscle memory comes because you're drilling.

So some people say drill as much as you're playing. Play with people who are better than you. Play with people who are in your mindset, may have less skill than you.

Play with people who are the same level of you. That's so important. And then the drilling aspect is just so vital to get that muscle memory.

Because then you're like, oh, I've done this before. And try this. For those out there who do drill a lot that thought of like, oh, I just worked on that and drill and I just did it.

Like sometimes when I've drilled something new, it's almost like the next game or the next couple games. You're like, oh, I'm actually using that skill in that moment. You're like, oh, it really worked.

So drilling to me just is so vital. And then I think you were asking another question. Maybe you weren't, but I'm thinking of this piece of like, what happens when that's over? Like, how do you regroup from something when maybe it didn't work out the way you wanted to or you did? And maybe we're going in a different direction here.

But I really want to say that this game, because it is so fast and then it's over. So pickleball is like, it's intense, slow down. So they call it like fire and ice.

Fire and ice. Go, you stop. You go, you stop.

So in those moments of high intensity, we're in it. And then we're stopping. And sometimes we hear people on the courts who are, maybe they're berating themselves or they're like, oh my God, whatever.

My goodness, oh my goodness, I made that happen or whatnot. Not to like, not like the, well, I love, we love Ted, I mean, I love Ted Laszlo's show, but the idea of like that, that goldfish, like be a goldfish, like let it go and look to the new one. And then is it Fretter had that really great, these quotes about like, like, what did I learn from that? Or like, like think of all the, all the shots you didn't get, but then, or no, don't think about them, but just like that happened, but go forward.