The Fox Extension: Exploring San Antonio's Guard Development Dilemma

Summary:

The NBA offseason continues to deliver fascinating storylines, with three situations demanding our attention: San Antonio's $229 million investment in De'Aaron Fox, Golden State's standoff with Jonathan Kuminga, and Detroit's patient rebuild strategy.

San Antonio's extension of Fox creates a compelling developmental puzzle as they now have three ball-dominant guards - Fox, second overall pick Dylan Harper, and Rookie of the Year Stephon Castle - all orbiting around generational talent Victor Wembanyama. Fox brings veteran leadership and clutch scoring ability, but his 27.4% three-point shooting with the Spurs raises questions about spacing. Could Harper's playmaking potential eventually shift Fox to an off-ball role, with Castle evolving into a defensive wing specialist? The organization that once had Manu Ginobili accept a sixth-man role must now navigate another complex talent equation.

Meanwhile, Jonathan Kuminga's situation with Golden State has deteriorated as contract negotiations stall. Despite his athletic gifts and scoring potential (20.5 points per 36 minutes), talent evaluators consistently value him between $17-21 million annually - significantly below his apparent expectations. The disconnect between Kuminga's physical tools and his basketball development (particularly regarding defensive awareness, rebounding commitment, and three-point shooting) exemplifies the challenging balance between potential and production in NBA roster building.

In Detroit, patience prevails as the Pistons focus on evaluating their young core rather than making splashy moves. With Cade Cunningham coming off an All-NBA season, Jaden Ivey returning from injury, and Ausar Thompson showing elite defensive disruption, Detroit added complementary veterans like Duncan Robinson, Caris LeVert, and Tobias Harris to stabilize their rotation. Following the blueprint of successful rebuilds in OKC, Orlando, and Houston, the Pistons are giving their talented young players runway to develop before making franchise-altering decisions.

Which approach will prove most successful? Is San Antonio creating their next championship core, or a developmental logjam? Will Golden State's principled stance with Kuminga pay off, or cost them a valuable asset? Can Detroit's patience finally deliver on years of rebuilding? The 2024-25 season promises answers to these compelling questions.

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Transcript

Episode Introduction

Speaker 1 0:13

it's tuesday, you know what time it is. Frontrunner podcast collective is back on the air. I am your humble host, vince, and on today's podcast we will be breaking down the extension for De'Aaron Fox with the Squares. What does this all mean? What does it entail to the development of one, dylan Harper? How does this affect Stephon Castle? And we'll get all into that. The other thing that we need to get to is the war or the standoff between Jonathan Kaminga and the Golden State Warriors. It has gotten ugly and we will definitely discuss that as well. And then towards the end, we need to talk about the detroit pistons and a lot of people are kind of upset about what they have not done during the off season and I might have a different way of looking at it than most people and we'll kind of go through all of that. I'm not going to touch on the george niang uh trade to utah as much today. We might save that for friday's podcast, because I would just want more, not just more, clarification. What I really want is to kind of break down the salary implications and how it works and then helps the celtics in the second apron and what it allows them to do. Then they also got chris boucher from the toronto rafters, who was a free agent. They signed him for 3.3 million I believe that's the veteran veterans minimum. So he is signed and he is now their de facto rim protector. That they did not have because, remember, luke cornett is a san antonio spur, christoph porzingis is an atlanta hawk and al horford is without a home because of the jonathan ka deal. So we have all of that to get to what we're going to get to those type of things on Friday. I think we have a really outstanding podcast for you today, so we're going to get to that momentarily.

Speaker 1 2:35

First and foremost, let's break down the socials. And what have you? On X, it's a at front runner PC paul's paul charles, and then the producer is at rea underscore fudge, fr pc. You get us there, talk to us. Then what happens is is that if your comments are really good, they end up on the pot. So far been lacking, I'm gonna tell you been lacking. So let's get the engagement up so then you and I can have conversations. And what have you? A lot of people hit me up like on um, email, um, and also like they follow us. So and I give my follow back so I get dms, whatever, but put it out on twitter, put it out into the universe, so then people can see it and then we'll bring it up and then hopefully get you more engagement. Maybe you want to, you know, tip your toe into this world or what have you to keep? You know, I have no problem giving love to people who show me love. Not at all. That is that.

Speaker 1 3:54

The other thing that we want to talk about is the just a tremendous outpour of how, how you guys have kind of like rallied around the podcast, how, how you guys have kind of like rallied around the podcast, uh, front runner podcast collective is humbled, humbled by just the attention of the podcast, that it is the outreach that is happening in the sense of, you know, people are listening to it and it is incredible to me, it's incredible to my staff serea uh, maya uh, who has come on and kind of is a second in command when it comes to after serea, as far as getting stuff done. Tremendous, tremendous work goes into this podcast every single week, you know, tuesday and friday for you, for your listening pleasure, and you can get us on spotify, you can get us on apple podcast, you can also get us on, like amazon music and in other places. So, whatever platform you choose to listen to, frontrunner podcast collective. We are grateful and humble. So, with that being said, you know what we need to do. Let's get into this podcast. Let's get into what we came to talk about, and the first thing is up is that we're going to talk about the san antonio spurs extending dearon fox, and the reason for this this is a foregone conclusion.

Speaker 1 5:25

A little bit there were questions, though. After dylan harper was drafted by the san antonio spurs with the second overall pick, would they go ahead and give him the full-blown extension? Now we're going to get into all that. We'll get into. Does De'Aaron Fox, where he lands as a point guard? Does that affect what you think he should get? As far as the money is concerned, because he got a four year $229 million contract that breaks down is that he'll be making 51 the first year, 55, the what is it? Yeah, the it's like 51, 53, 55 and then 63.3. It's like it's a lot of money. I can't wait to get into this because there's so many tentacles to it and we're going to hit it from all sides. We're going to hit it from the deer fox side, you know, is this worth it? We're going to give you a little background on him.

Speaker 1 6:34

We're also going to talk about dylan harper and also the other person that this affects, and that's us stefan castle. So let's get into our guy, darren fox. So, darren fox, he is now there as the point guard when we has a running mate that you can sit there and count on. The one thing that you can say about darren fox is that he is a long-term engine. He was basically what drove the sacramento kings to their recent success that they had a couple years ago when they made the playoffs for the first time in 16 years. He's a lefty lightning, quick downhill league guard now entering his prime on a max extension with the squares. He was drafted fifth overall by the sacramento back in 2017. And then he was traded this deadline, this past deadline, in February 2025.

De'Aaron Fox's $229M Extension

Speaker 1 7:32

As the last remnants of what I consider of the light the beam Kings. Now the Kings look like what Detroit, downtown Detroit, looked like back in in the 2010s and, whatever the case may be, it was terrible. Now it's being revitalized and what have you? But if you are in detroit, if you know, you know what is the san antonio spurs getting in dearon fox. Obviously they are getting a vet, eight-year vet. He's seen a lot. He's been a all nba player. He's been an all-star. He's also won the clutch player of the year award. He has a proven playoff shot.

Speaker 1 8:15

Creator vibe to him now his recent stats as far as that's concerned. We kind of compiled the last three seasons because to us that is the most important is what you are right now and what you've been in lately over the last three years 23.5 points per game, 6.3 assists per game and 4.8 rebounds. Now those are the 2024 2025 splits between sacramento and san antonio spurs. His true shooting percentage was 0.560. His career high is 0.599. Back in 2023 that was the year that the sacramento kings made the actual playoffs His three-point attempt rate is 6.1 per game. His three-point percentage slumped to 31% this last year. People can say a lot about that. We will get into that momentarily.

Speaker 1 9:24

Now he's the playmaker, he's the lead guard. He maintains a high usage rate and rim pressure. His assist rate was at 29%. It was his low. His turnover rate was elite as far as that's concerned. So You're getting somebody who handles the ball ball but also takes care of the ball. Now, what makes De'Aaron Fox pretty special is the defensive playmaking 1.5 steals per game, when with the Spurs, he's going to be very active in the passing lane. Now also with Wingby being there, you can take a couple more risks. Now also with wing b being there, you can take a couple more risks when by yama is a just a force onto himself and his defensive um wing not his defensive like fingerprint or impact is so vast because he can get from the top of the key to the rim in like a step and a half Just with the wingspan alone and be able to block shots at a really impeccable rate. So De'Aaron Fox might actually be even more of a defensive pest now than he was when he was in Sacramento, where he didn't have rim protection whatsoever. So I think personally this is going to help him.

Speaker 1 10:50

Some of the intangibles that we're looking at with De'Aaron Fox is that he's known for his elite end-to-end speed, his motor and his competitive fire. He wants to be great. He works hard in the offseason to be great. Uh, he is a big moment shot maker, always trusted in late games as the number one option, hence the clutch player of the year award that he won a couple years ago. Uh, he's seen as a willing pick and roll partner for the bigs, ideal fit for Victor Wing by Yama. He is respected for his resilience to play through pain and takes ownership of tough stretches years. But I don't think they wanted to have something like that in their portfolio at that time. They were trying to accrue the highest of first-round picks so they can go ahead and build the team around Victor when by Yama. Now that we are transitioning into this phase that we're trying to compete, having somebody like Darren Fox around is going to be just immensely helpful.

Speaker 1 12:08

Now there are some drawbacks to De'Aaron Fox the shooting regression the career worst three-point percentage. Last year he shot post-trade only 27.4% from beyond the arc. When he got to san antonio the positive rep in sacramento and san antonio as the general moniker, you know basically getting everybody, all the troops in line. You know, okay, this is what we're running when we hit the front court, let's go ahead and get this done. He will have the attention of his teammates because they're all still fairly young. The Spurs have prioritized timeline balance when it comes to Victor Wimbarayama, but Fox is a bridge and a vet alongside a young core and also highly productive still it's.

Speaker 1 13:05

It's a different situation when you had Chris Paul there. Right, chris Paul is damn near 40 years old. I think he's 38. And Chris Paul is at the end of his career. He's no longer the CP3 that we knew back in New Orleans and also with the Clippers and with the Phoenix Suns. This is a different Chris Paul. This guy is like 20 minutes a game max. The production as far as points and and what have you is not going to be as robust as it was when he was in his 20s.

Speaker 1 13:42

Dude is in his late 30s and he's a diminutive guard, not a great success profile, especially when you are in being 38 years old. Crazy now, as far as what dearon fox can bring the pick and roll guards does basically snake in the pick and roll Into the mid range Because he is a mid range Assassin. And then, knowing that the specter Of Victor went by Yama, if you are trailing this situation or you're aggressively Hedging against Victor With being him, he being like seven foot five I know they put him at seven foot three or whatever case may be this dude is like there's a good chance that victor might actually be seven foot seven, but that's just gonna be hard to guard. It's gonna be incredibly hard to guard now. A lot of that is due to victor, but also you're talking about a guy in dearon fox who is very respected around the league as somebody who you are looking at and going hey, I know that if I leave this dude, especially in crunch time moments, he's gonna put up this, this shot. He gonna really get down with it and that's what deere fox does. His decision making is pretty good, uh. His shot making ability and his versatility is, uh, robust. Now he can get into his the three-point shooting we'll talk about in a minute. But as far as what he's able to do in the mid-range or get to the, get to the rack, it's pretty incredible. The jets are still there. He has one of the quickest first steps in the game and he's not afraid to go amongst the trees.

Speaker 1 15:39

If you know what I'm talking about now, I will say this where this kind of sticks and where you kind of are, what are we doing is with the developmental path of one stefan castle and also dylan harper, who they just got in the draft. Darren fox is a dude who plays 34 minutes a game, you know. So if you're looking at the point guard position and you got Darren Fox and he's playing 34 minutes a game, sometimes in upwards of 38 minutes a game, depending on how how high leverage the game is. That's not a lot of time for Dylan Harper and or Stephon Castle, because, remember, stephon Castle said he wanted to be a point guard. As we go along through this, we're going to talk this out. I think there's a way around this, so just bear with us.

Speaker 1 16:39

Now, as far as 2025 is concerned, the pick and roll synergy with winway yama is an organization, is an organizational bet. Fox spins the defense with his rim protection, making life easier for winby as a roller or a pop threat fit questions. When it comes to darren fox and the plethora of guards that they have, again, the elephant in the room is you drafted Dylan Harper, who has a pedigree in the sense of his dad playing the league for a very long time. And if you talk to scouts about Dylan Harper, uh, which we'll get into later about how people are scouting him out, I know that the Rutgers year was tough, but other than Ace Bailey and Dylan Harper, there wasn't a lot around them, so there was a lot of heavy lifting that Dylan Harper had to do so and then Stephon Castle is your reigning rookie of the year. So, and then stefan castle is your reigning rookie of the year.

Speaker 1 17:49

All are ball dominant below average shooters. When you talk about the leap that the spurs might be able to take, it all hinges on one of these dudes breaking out as a better shooter. Now the roster is still as a better shooter. Now the roster is still Starting to come along. You still got Harrison Barnes, who is a savvy vet.

Speaker 1 18:13

They pick up Luke Cornett From the Boston Celtics. Last year he was their off the bench big and he'll be providing that same role For the San Antonio Spurs. Also, they brought in Kelly Olenek, I think, for vibes. Personally, kelly Olenek might get anywhere between 8 to 12 minutes a game. Cornette is the primary backup to Wimby and also he would be the person that if for some reason Wimby was going to be out For any amount of time, he would take over that starter role. But these are added vet stability pieces as far as um the spurs are concerned. And you also got guys who are high character guys. Luke cornett they raved about him in boston. I didn't talk to one Boston person that's affiliated with the team who didn't have good words To say about Luke Cornett and the job that he did when he was called upon To do those jobs, or also the work that he put in To better himself and give the Celtics what they needed In their championship run and also in the run before the Jason Tatum injury happened. So, luke Cornett, super backup, big love that pickup for the San Antonio Spurs and also provides the defense. And he's seven foot four, let's get into it.

Developing Three Ball-Dominant Guards

Speaker 1 19:43

Do you have too many cooks? Where's the on-ball development gonna happen? Ask these questions and get these questions answered. Everybody wants playmakers. Until you have three of them, all, you need needing the rock to reach your ceiling or in the talent pool, and it creates a log jam. History says to you you can try to develop three on ball dominant guards, but most teams end up making a choice in gear two, maybe possibly year three, but right now the experiment is on. So Raya has this.

Speaker 1 20:24

Let's look at some of the situations from previous. You had the Sixers with Maxie and then Harden was there, so Harden had to go. The Suns had Booker, bloodso and Knight. Oh, that was back in the day. Booker is the lone, lone survivor there. The Knicks had to move on from quickly, because quickly was like I need the rock, and now he's a Toronto Raptor. Not saying that quickly is ever going to be Jalen Brunson, or whatever case may be. All I'm saying is that when you have two or three guards that need the ball in their hands, there has to be some sort of adjustment that has to be made.

Speaker 1 21:12

One thing that I'm going to bring up is this Now I'm not saying this year, but I am saying for the future Can Dylan Harper make Fox a two guard and castle a full-time wing, and how? What needs to happen for that to go down? We're gonna get into it right now. Harper's on-ball development must be real and not just theoretical. The pick and roll mastery. He must consistently create advantages as a primary ball handler live dribble reads, pocket passes, skip, skip passes and his vision must continue to be all elite, not just running sets but bending the defenses the way SGA or K Cunningham or Tyrese Halliburton does. Now the one thing I will say about our guy Dylan Harper is that in pick and roll he is stout and when he gets downhill and he has the defender on his hip, he has a myriad of ways of getting his shots off. Now that was against. Collegiate competition again has a pedigree his dad playing the league for a very long time. So if anybody is coming into the league with like a little bit of a cheat code, it's going to be Dylan Harper. Now this is where it gets.

Speaker 1 22:46

Exciting for me Is his tempo control. The game will slow down for him. Now, obviously, when you're a rookie and you're playing in the NBA and you're going up against these sick ass guards Every single night, your head might start spinning. But on the offensive end end for him quickly to have a low turnover rate command versus pressure. There were a lot of times where people were coming at him with two or three guys on a blitz and he would quickly decipher where he wanted to go with the ball and have the confidence enough to get off the ball to then relocate and then get the ball back.

Speaker 1 23:34

Paint touch frequency we talk about this all the time. We talk about purposeful paint touches and how important they are and how important they are. And that's the one thing with Dylan Harper being six foot down in shoes. He's six foot six. He's about six foot four realistically, but pretty, uh, decent wingspan when it comes to that, like this thing's 6'10 wingspan. So if he gets to the paint at will, like he did in his college film.

Speaker 1 24:06

This dude is going to be box office. Defenses will have to respect him as a lead guard scoring punch, his pull-up threat from mid-range plus real realm finishing is enough to keep defenses honest and draw two defenders. This is stuff that I'm talking about already. This is the stuff that he already has in his back. He has the little teardrop. He has a little pull-up game from like 12 to 17 feet. He has to step back. Now the three-point shooting must get better. I'm not going to lie to you. Now the three-point shooting must get better. I'm not going to lie to you. But there's a lot to like when it comes to Dylan Harper and his command of the basketball and his command of the offense. This is why I am big on this theory of making Darren Fox a two-guard and making Stephon Castle a wing, and we'll get to all that momentarily. Now teammates must trust him to run the show. I darren fox ie stefan castle.

Speaker 1 25:10

The ego situation is going to have to be kept in check. That's where the new coach comes in to play. Now. The one thing about san antonio in their system, and also just the organizationally wise. This is a no-nonsense group. They like to keep a lot of things close to the vest and I am sure with people like david robinson, tim duncan, mono genoble, uh, tony parker and alike, you are sitting on a situation where there are so many Avenues for you to go down To say, hey, what's the spur way, how do I get my coach to recognize, or the front office to recognize me as, like you know, a vital piece Of this organization? A lot of people are going to say to these guards Sacrifice, give more of yourself to the team. Tony Parker did it, tim Duncan did it. Mano Ginobili came off the bench. Any other situation, mano Ginobili would have been an absolute starter. He had the talent for it, he had the scoring prowess for it, he had the playmaking for it. He was a problem all through his time as a San Antonio Spur, but he came off the bench because that's what the team needed. Where do we go from here? But he came off the bench because that's what the team needed. Where do we go from here?

Speaker 1 26:49

Nba's dirty secret is development. It's a zero-sum game. You can have three on ball guys on paper, but on the floor it's all about touches, decisions and confidence. Give the ball to Fox for 32 minutes. You squeeze Harper and Castle. Give the ball to Harper for 32 minutes. You squeeze harper and castle. Give the ball to harper and you may win less, but he's able to grow more.

Speaker 1 27:12

Teams love to say iron sharpens iron, but in reality is someone always getting less shiny? This is Stephon. Castle comes into play. The shooting development Is a must. It is not just Spot ups, self created threes. If Parker Can become even More of a threat off the dribble Right now, 32-35% on decent volume that unlocks primary upside and keeps him on the floor and space for wing beat. Because remember, at the end of the day, we can talk De'Aaron Fox, we can talk Dylan Harper, we can talk about Stephon Castle, all we want.

Speaker 1 28:07

But the straw that stirs the drink in San Antonio is Victor Wimbayama, how he goes. So go the San Antonio Spurs. How you fit around, victor Wimbayama is how you are able to stay in San Antonio. Do not get this twisted. Yes, we're talking about development, we're talking about minutes and how it's all going to break down. How Wimby wants this to work Is how this is going to go.

Speaker 1 28:36

And I'm not saying that he's a diva, I'm not saying that he's Asking for agency With inside the franchise, that he's picking his guys and all that. No, what I am saying is that he's a tremendous competitor. He seems to have that bug to not just want to be great, but I will do all the things to be great. This dude was training with, like Shaolin Monk Over his break, like to unlock his mind and to become more disciplined. How many players you know doing that? I know that LeBron spends a million dollars on his body, but what was my man down Getting it down with some shaolin monks, living with the monks for a period of time? Nah, he wasn't doing that.

Speaker 1 29:36

We talked about the situation. Here's the thing. If dylan harper wants to supplant fox, I don't know how hard it's going to be, and I don't mean any disrespect to dearon fox. One of dearon's shortcomings is his shooting and his long range shooting, which we were. We talked about earlier in the podcast. We talked about that he shot 27% from three once he got to San Antonio. Now, that could, because when we got, had the blood clot issue that is cleared up and everything like that. But at the end of the day, if Harper shows that he can hit the outside shot at a decent rate, knowing that he's 19 years of age. So this, the chances of this getting better are very positive.

Speaker 1 30:32

And what about stefan castle? If these guys show that they can shoot the wall and provide the space that wimby has? You know you? You start to ask the question about fox. You know not that was he worth the trade? But are we keeping him? Can he handle the two slot? Because there is value in deer and fox being the off ball guard. First of all, he's quick as a hiccup. Second of all, if he's not bringing up the ball all the time, how better can the defense get from De'Aaron Fox? And he is your point of attack defender? So there's upside to moving De'Aaron Fox off the ball, and that's what I wanted to get to. And also, we're going to talk about Stephon Castle a little bit and how this helps him as well. If shooting does lag, because all three of these guys have a question mark with their shooting, it limits how much gravity all of them create late clock.

Speaker 1 31:35

Dylan harper has a bag, has a very robust bag, his bag is very deep, okay, so there's a lot of stuff that he can get to in pick and roll action. Remember he's a little bit bigger of a guy, he's got broad shoulders, he has some, some weight where he will be able to get a defender on his hip and then at that point you are at his mercy. Now, unless you're a super long wingspan type of dude, I'm trying to think of somebody who would cause him some issues, not lou doart, oh, let's say um, let's say jaguar, jaguar, smith jr was on him. Right, here's somebody 6'10, 6'11, also with a decent wingspan. Now, yeah, he might have him on his hip, but that's 7'3, 7'4 wingspan, is telling you. I would love for you to try to get that shot off. So those are going to be the things where we see the creativity of Harper around the rim, and there's a lot of it. I know people say you can't say that about him, so I won't. I'll just say this Check out some Rod Strickland tape. Okay, go on YouTube, check out some Rod Strickland tape and then tell me what you think.

Speaker 1 33:03

I know I was was gonna say somebody else who also plays in the state of texas, who also is a phenomenally um, imaginative point guard. I did not want to put that kind of pressure on dylan harper, so I won't. I will not do it defensively. Kenny guard once.

Speaker 1 33:23

If harper can credibly defend opposing point guards, you can keep fox off the toughest assignment. I think it's the other way around. I think what what it is is we can take some of the pressure off of harper, allow him to grow as a playmaker and then say, hey, darren fox, this dude is a awesome playmaker, probably better than you as a playmaker. And then say, hey, darren Fox, this dude is a awesome playmaker, probably better than you as a playmaker. It would be honest. So why don't we let him handle the point guard duties? You kind of slide to the number two role, but you're going to be the point of attack defender when it comes to the toughest guard assignment. I think that's the way to go. Switchability the more position positions harper can guard, the easier it is to slide fox and castle up in the lineup.

Speaker 1 34:19

And this is where I get to this other situation. Here's where front offices earn their money. This is where coaching becomes absolutely paramount. If you are overcrowded in the backcourt, you risk quickly effect Held down, then explodes after the move, but then comes down to earth because he plays for Toronto. Let's just be honest. Comes down to earth because he plays for Toronto, let's just be honest, or a stale rookie syndrome where talent never hits because there's no runway for them, a la D'Angelo Russell when he was a Laker. And I'm not talking about the last iteration, I'm talking about the first iteration, when you had too many cooks in the kitchen. You know Alonzo there, you got D'Angelo there, you had a bunch of dudes. Then LeBron showed up and you knew he was going to be on ball. How was, how was D'Angelo supposed to thrive? Then he goes to the Brooklyn Nets and he shows up and shows out. Some of his best years were with the Brooklyn Nets.

Speaker 1 35:24

Let's be honest, if Harper is manning the lead guard, the upside to everybody else Grows exponentially. Castle, to me, could be the defensive glue Off ball. But if he wants, if he wants more, that might be a problem. Fox is a floor raiser. I don't know Again how he would handle being the secondary ball handler Since he's been the primary ball handler Since he was at the University of Kentucky. Go Big Blue, you know what I'm saying. Go Wildcats, I know Pope. Mark Pope got that situation Under control now At the University of Kentucky. And we are talking about some of the alumni, like our guy De'Aaron Fox.

Speaker 1 36:19

Harker's usage rate. If we're looking for like signs that it's working. If Harker's usage rate jumps to like 24 to 27 percent, that's starter's territory. If he's getting fourth quarter reps, if he's getting fourth quarter reps first 35 games, don't even think about this. Okay, this is after 35. If he's running key possessions in late game situations, that means the coach is definitely trusting. Trusting him. Now fox shot profile shifts him. Now fox shot profile shifts more spot ups, more off ball movement. And here's the other thing the gravity that win by yama and dylan harper could create. And then you throw it to the weak side and deere fox is over there, who's one of the quickest dudes in the league. This could work and it could work like gangbusters for the san antonio spurs.

Speaker 1 37:19

If everybody can adhere to the roles castle, no doubt his role will narrow, because now he is going to be asked to guard a wing, he will be asked to do less on ball. Now it might free him up because he has a ton of athleticism, a ton of it, and I think him as a wing, and his size being 6'6 damn near 6'7, with the long arms, I think he would be able to handle today's column wings. But I'm talking about threes and what have you. And in certain instances he might be able to guard up to a four, be able to switch, because I'm not in the building, I don't know that part of it. I can't wait to see training camp and then also see the early games in preseason and see what goes on Dylan Harper is able to handle will go a long way to let us know how we can go ahead and rejigger this roster if it doesn't work.

Speaker 1 38:28

If it doesn't work, remember, look at the Thunder, look at the decision they made prior to last season. Josh Giddey was on that team. Josh Giddey is an on-ball initiator. Who was the on-ball initiator for the OKC Thunder this year? It was none other than Shea Gildress Alexander, right, and then Jalen Williams did a little bit of his thing and what have you? But the primary initiator was Shea Gilchrist Alexander.

Speaker 1 39:02

By getting rid of Josh Giddey to Chicago, did you upgrade your defense? Yes, because Alex Caruso's awesome at defense. Did you upgrade your maturity level 100 because you didn't have giddy pouting on the sideline wondering, well, this offense isn't fitting me and whatever the case may be. But what it also did? It made the hard choice and it was very stark and it showed to be so positive right off the bat. Shea gilgis, ais Alexander, as your primary offensive initiator, was good for business and business boomed in OKC. Right, they won a championship off of this. But what I'm trying to say to you is only one can become a star, only one, and Shea Gilgisander had to be that guy.

Speaker 1 39:59

If san antonio can stagger, find defined roles and one guy accepts in castle, let's go of his on-ball dreams and becomes a that dog on the wing this team is going to be. It's going to be dangerous. I'm trying to tell you for fox and castle, their games have to adapt. Castle must hit open threes and be that defensive monster on the wings. Uh, think of a bigger bruce brown or og and the novi light or OG Ananobe Light With guard skills. And for Fox, he must embrace the off ball scoring Relocation of threes Cuts, which he'll be tremendous at Attacking second side Think Derek White or Drew Holiday Evolution. If Fox resists this, there will be friction. If either fully commits To to these roles, the trio can work, especially with new coach.

Speaker 1 41:04

Another note from serea too much talent is a problem only if you're afraid to make the call. You're right for harker to supplant Fox as the Spurs primary lead guard. He has to prove he can bend NBA defenses as a lead handler, hit enough shots to keep the defenses honest and command the floor by midseason. If that happens, fox, guess what? You're the number two guy, off-ball scorer, slasher and castle Must fully commit to being that defensive first wing connector, and I think these are all attributes that are in their bag.

Speaker 1 41:46

It's just how will they see it, how will they accept it and will they? Will they do it with a, with a mindset that we're all doing this for the betterment of victor, win by yama who can lead us to the promised land? Because here's a. Here's the thing that a lot of people aren't talking about loki victor might be like luka donchik, and what I mean by that is that by year three, luka was significantly affecting playoff situations and if Victor Wynwayama is going to be that, they might be making deep playoff runs, like this year and we're talking about in a stacked west, a stack west, but tell me who anybody has. If victor is that dude this year, if victor is that dude this year, all bets are off. They will will go from Quirky little team With this Evolutionary alien and Victor went by Yama, to undeniable and just a problem in the playoffs.

Speaker 1 43:08

I am, I'm excited, but I want you guys, I want Pura Vida fan base, I want the San Antonio fan base To let me know what do you think about Fox moving to the two Castle being the wing. Will they be able to accept these roles, understanding what Stephon Castle came into the league talking about and what De'Aaron Fox has been for basically his whole career in the NBA and also in college? So hit us up on Twitter At FrontrunnerPC, or also at Rhea underscore, funch, frpc. I can't wait. Your take, the best takes, the more evolved takes, will end up on Friday's podcast. So hit us up, let us know. Put hashtag too many cooks in the kitchen, or actually let's shorten that hashtag three guards or hashtag san antonio guards. Any way you put that we will know, and then we will be locked in and reading those comments and let and, like I said, the best one ends up on the podcast.

Kaminga vs. Warriors Standoff

Speaker 1 44:25

Now we need to get to the precarious route of our guy jonathan kamiga. We've been talking about this way too long, but basically it's becoming, uh, a very big problem with the golden state warriors and we've talked about how jonathan comingo believes that he's worth a certain amount of money and he believes that his development has been stymied by steve kerr and also the golden state warriors and their their chasing of titles and putting the best team around steph curry. Now, no duh, what are we talking about? Right now, steph curry is the greatest shooter that we've ever seen. You know saying like, if that dude is still viable as a number one option, I'm sorry, john the kaminga, with your true shooting percentage of 53.5 percent last year. You know I'm saying like your three point percentage terrible, inconsistent, off-ball adaptability. Yeah, this is you. This is who we talking about. You got Steve Kerr just fatigued and the organizational misalignment amplifies the risk Paying this dude a ton of money.

Speaker 1 45:50

He's an inflexible piece on the roster and is problematic. Joe Lakerakers affinity indicates potential difficulties in negotiations as well. That's the other thing we need to throw into this mystery suit that Golden State and Jonathan Kaminga are brewing up. It's created internal tension between long-term upside perception with the owner and short-term pragmatic roster construction, and that's the coaching staff and the front office. So we're going to break down a little bit what Jonathan Kaminga is. We're going to talk about what he provides, what he doesn't provide, and we'll let you guys make the decision. So let's go here first. Obviously, jonathan Kaminga is six foot eight. He has a seven foot wingspan. The dude is still young. He's 22 years of age. At 302 days he's drafted seventh overall in the 2021 draft. I can't believe that was that was the draft that he was in Production snapshot par 36 average in four seasons 20.5 points a game, 6 rebounds, 2.9 assists and one steal and almost close to a block a game.

Speaker 1 47:19

One steal and almost close to a block again. His career true shooting percentage is 58.3. His effective field goal percentage is 55 percent. His box plus minus is a negative 1.0. His win share per 48 is 0.102 and his value over replacement players is 1.4. His scoring last year was kind of stymied by the injury and also then just the dnps that he got because jimmy butler showed up.

Speaker 1 47:52

Here's what he is. He's a plus athlete. He's a play finisher. Think like ben matherin will like without the jump shot. He has the opportunity with two two-way ability. This is what a league pro scout said to me from the southwest division said jonathan kaminga is still 22 years of age. He's shown real growth as a scorer and athletically he matches up with anyone. What his on-ball defense, feel and buy-in are still lagging at this time. The tape shows his best minutes are in havoc units or not as a system fit. If he ever locks in defensively he's a starting forward on a playoff team. But if he never accepts that role to do the little things, there is no changing with steph and jimmy running show.

Speaker 1 48:55

I agree wholeheartedly Real athleticism, driving, scoring, effective transition player and a secondary realm presence. It's the defensive consistency, it's the swing, it's the switchable wing defender potential that people salivate over. But the thing about it is he gets lost on defense so many times, so many times the instincts are mixed when it comes even to the offensive side of the ball. Uh, he has questionable shot selection. He shot 30.5% from three. Last year 30.5. His defensive box plus minus last year was a career low. It wasa negative 0.2. So really he's kind of a net neutral defender, which is crazy for the amount of physical tools that he has.

Speaker 1 49:51

You know saying like it's hard to believe that somebody this athletic, at six foot eight, 210 pounds, can be this mediocre at defense. And a lot of it you can talk about. And I think this is where steve kerr just unsatisfied with jonathan kamiga. That I'm trying to. I'm trying to parse these words out very carefully right now, but his coach's decision to not play last year was just a direct effect on Kamiga's attitude. He shows potential volatility.

Speaker 1 50:37

Inconsistent roles with Golden State suggests that it's a complicated relationship with the coaching staff. We just talked about that. Now, if you want to talk about what other people are saying, it's all the same stuff. It's all the same stuff that we always heard with Jonathan Kaminga a lead athlete but doesn't show instincts to leverage into a high level defensive player. Consistently, he's most effective when the role is simple Let him tag downhill, finish plays and let him run in transition. Oh, here's the other thing that we kind of really need to talk about when it comes to Jonathan Kaminga. Jonathan Kaminga wants to have more opportunities, but Jonathan Kaminga doesn't want to rebound the basketball. This is something that Steve Kerr has asked him to do more of.

Speaker 1 51:25

Right, here's the thing that I would say to Jonathan Kaminga if you want to average more points, so you can go ahead and get paid more money, because we're gonna get into what an evaluator told me what he's actually worth and where they strongly think he will end up being. We'll get to that momentarily, but if jonathan kaminga would grab the ball off the glass and then take it down court, you're so physically gifted that you'll probably be one of the first people at the court and maybe still have the defense on their heels, and then you can attack the paint for somebody who is like, oh, the ball comes off the rim, he's already heading down, he's already heading down court. Like to get in position. No, go get the ball off the rim, go get the ball off the glass and then take it down yourself. I bet you, steph, would be so enamored with this kid if he did that. But right now people cool off you because you're not doing the little things that are going to help you be successful and they also help the team be successful. And yeah, that can sound like utopian idealism, it could. It can sound like pie in the sky idealism, but at the end of the day, this dude is talking about how he wants to get paid and how he wants to have more opportunities. Well, go down there and get your, get your athletic ass, go ahead and rebound and then be a one-man fast break.

Speaker 1 52:58

Theoretically strong due to athleticism. Realistic average due to iq deficits. That was from a atlantic scout division scout awareness below average defensively. Last, consistent positional discipline. Same scout iq average to below average concerning in complex offenses or defensive schemes. Southeastern division scout.

Speaker 1 53:28

Again, he is a he's a maddening player. He's a maddening player. He's a maddening player Because he's so gifted. But we can't trust you. We can't trust you.

Speaker 1 53:45

I asked one. I asked one Person in the front office who asked to be Renamed nameless. I said hey, what would you If you had him on your team? How much would you want to pay this dude? And this is what he said. He said okay, we're holding the cards on cominga and right now we got two suitors, both in the west, and we're at a crossroads with this dude. Let's lock him in for about 21. Anywhere between 19 to 21 million. Keep him as an asset, flexible For February 1st, and I want no stone unturned. What's his real value? We don't know, but let's try to get the best player we can possibly get for him. He's like I'm flipping him. I'm flipping him. Now the warriors have shut down all trade talks, hoping that comingo will blink to accept the 21.75 million dollar slot that they've offered for him to keep them right below the second acorn. By the way, the true motive is to keep cap flexibility and maintain an asset for later on potentially larger move.

Speaker 1 55:01

During the trade deadline I talked to an analytics director in the northwest region of the NBA. He says value is clearer by the year. His 15 PER and I hate that stat, but they used it and his negative one box plus minus player. His on off splits are noisy. Offense gets a bit better, defense rarely does. Playoff simulations. Says that he's more of a 17 million annual average value player at 21 to 22 million you're paying for youth and athletic upside, but he hasn't justified a 25 million dollar uh territory and teams paying banking on the leap. Well, we just haven't seen it yet. So we had some person said that he was worth 17 million dollars a year. That's just a little bit above mid-level. Mid-level player exception. Here's a cap strategist if we sign this dude to 21.75 million dollars, we stay um, we can stay under the apron. He was going off the rules of what gold state is dealing with, right, he was like we stay underneath the second acre, but he's got a no trade clause with that deal, so we need to get that taken off the books. Okay, we need to increase our flexibility.

Speaker 1 56:38

Say what you want about Malik Monk. He's a plus, he's a play. He can be a plus two teams or whatever the case may be, but it's not clearly what Golden State needs at this time. They need a replacement for Jonathan Kaminga. So basically, they need a Jonathan Kaminga with a better attitude. That's crazy. The person they need is Jonathan Kaminga. They already have it, but we got Jonathan Kaminga going. Nah, bruh, I'm cool off all the things you want me to do. I don't want to do none of those.

Speaker 1 57:12

A VP of player personnel said that the Kings are intriguing. Kamiga could fit their timeline and have a culture where he might get more leash, meaning like he'll be able to play more, but the pick needs to be unprotected. The lottery protections make this a dice roll at best, and losing Monk, who's a rotational scorer but not a plus defender, are their defensive rebounding or rim protection gaps. So again, we talked about all his athleticism, because this is the thing. Keegan Murray wants to move back to the the three. He wants to be a small forward. Jonathan kaminga, if he played defense, guess what? You would be able to slot keegan murray where he wanted to be slotted. You have a uber athletic dude who will be able to provide some rim protection. Now, demone is a bonus, is a whole different other story and we don't have time for that right now. But here's a way for this dude to get his coin and also get on the court and be productive. But we don't have any tape indicating that any of these things is going to happen. We just have his word.

Speaker 1 58:38

You remember when Glenn Taylor of the Minnesota Timberwolves said I had a long talk with Andrew Wiggins and he told me he was going to try real hard. That's where we are with Jonathan Kaminka. Hey man, can you try real hard? Well, if I'm in Golden State, no, I can't, I can't try real hard. Not if I'm in Golden State, no, I can't, I can't try real hard. Not going to be able to do it, not going to be able to do it. So if I'm Golden State and I'm looking at these trade packages or whatever case may be, I'm going like, no, I'm cool, I'm cool off this. Now the problem is Is, if he signs Just a one year, then he becomes a free agent unrestricted next year. And guess what? Because he signed a one year contract, he has a no trade clause so he can walk at the end of the year. This is why it's a game of chicken walk at the end of the year. This is why it's a game of chicken.

Speaker 1 59:45

Cominga's people know kamika's agents know that golden state needs to trade him and get assets back. But also golden state knows that hey man, if we give you million, we're not going to be able to trade you. That's number one. Number two these packages that we're getting aren't helping us. Because here's the thing If you are the Golden State Warriors, you get Malik Monk Cool, that's great. Oh, there's Steph Curry, there's Buddy Heald and also there's Brandon Hill and also there's Brandon Pazinski. What do we need with another dude who is a microwave scorer? That's Buddy Hill's job. Right, and Buddy Hill at least bought in. He's not a great defender, but he bought in. Malik Monk is like 6'1 at best. With Buddy Hill, at least you get 3 or 4 more inches on that.

Speaker 1 1:00:43

I can understand that the front office is sitting there and saying we kind of don't want to do this deal. Do you believe in Jonathan Kamiga? Asset value is a valuable is valuable because he's 22 years of age and he's tools rich and he's not locked into a big deal. Yet teams believe in the next leap. There are teams out there who do, but there are warning signs. We just talked about them. We talked about the defensive IQ, the fit issues to read and react to the offense, his unwillingness to accept role alongside stars Cuz.

Detroit Pistons' Offseason Strategy

Speaker 1 1:01:24

Here's the thing wherever you go, jonathan, coming up, you ain't gonna be the number one option. What did you think you'll be the number one option in Phoenix? It's Devin Booker there, oh, by the way, they got Jalen green as well. Oh, oh. You're going to Sacramento. Okay, you might be better off, but do you think Zach Levine is going to pass you the ball? You think DeMar DeRozan, if he's still there, is going to pass you the ball? Demontis Sabonis is the offensive hub and, yeah, he might throw you some passes.

Speaker 1 1:01:59

In whatever case may be, to get the assist and do make the right play, if you're willing to cut and do the things that you would be doing guess where in golden state would you not shown? So I am at my wits end with this, and one talent evaluator said it best I like kaminga as a swing on upside at a reasonable price no more than 21 million and he says that's pushing it. I would really like him at a more of 18 million dollar annual average value. But I would not want to be the franchise that gives him the final contract, ie a 25 million dollar plus, with no trade clause. You risk tying up your cap with a player who may never anchor a playoff defense or become a reliable secondary scorer. Harsh words, but they needed to be said.

Speaker 1 1:03:06

Now we're gonna move on to a happier subject, and that subject is the detroit pistons. And we took I read an article or actually it wasn't articles a little blurb in an article. They were talking about the offseason and how it worked and they gave grades and whatever case may be. And listen, the athletic does yelmins work, they do incredible work. But I looked at the grade that the detroit pistons got and I was just like I don't understand this and I didn't understand what this meant. But let's get into it. Detroit came into the summer with cash questions and one mandate Stop the churn, start building trade. You, langdon, call for patience. The moves what moves? Steady, not flashy. They got a couple moves in there. We're gonna talk about them now. The grade that the athletic gave them over the summer was a B minus, not a home run, not a disaster. But if you squint you can see the plan right. You can see the plan note from serea. Uh, this is a reference from hunter patterson's piece in the athletic respectable pivot.

Speaker 1 1:04:32

After beasley's legal troubles, remember, malik beasley is being investigated by the feds, the federal bureau of investigations. For what? Gambling, yeah, and they got that dude dead to rights. So front office stayed focused, didn't panic, and they made the necessary moves they had to make. You know when you run to a situation that you did not, that you did not account for, like a dude who is a nba player gambling on the sport that he plays, lordy, lord, I don't. I don't know why I have to. I have to have these conversations. I I don't know why I have to have them. Let's start here. Let's start with what they did, okay. So Chas Lanier was a summer league sniper, real shot to crack the rotation. It was three balls for real.

Speaker 1 1:05:36

Duncan Robinson comes over from the Miami Heat Veteran shooter Insurance for after Beasley's flame out. And then they got Karis Levert. Brings playmaking to the second unit, replaces Schroeder's ball handling and also you gain five more inches. Karis Levert is 6'6". Our guy Dennis Schroeder is 6'1". Scrappyppy as hell, talk a lot of trash, which I love, but there are limits to what Schroeder can do now to Wyeth Harris returns steady vet space and pace fit. They really needed him. Pauled also is there. He joins the front court of jalen duran and isaiah stewart in that front court mix. I love that our guy thj is gone. Tim hardaway jr has left the building so you replace one Wolverine with another Wolverine. Karras LaVert comes in, tim Hardaway Jr goes out, malik Beasley we don't know if he gonna be handcuffed soon and Dennis Schroeder he gone, he out.

Speaker 1 1:06:59

Now I want to talk about the front court, the bench, mixing in the vets with the youth. I want to get into this a little bit, so give me a little room. So let's shift to the Pistons front court for one second, okay, and then we're gonna get to their bench as well. This is where Detroit quietly building an infrastructure to keep their rebuild on track, no matter what havoc hits the starting five. Jalen doran's their starter.

Speaker 1 1:07:30

Okay, this is your. This is your classic old school center in a 21 year old's body that was built by the greek gods themselves. Okay, this dude is ridiculous. Have you ever seen him? I don't even know. They say he has four percent body fat. I almost find that hard to believe. I think it's like two, it's like almost zero.

Speaker 1 1:07:53

He's already putting up double, doubles, crashing glass, catching loves, providing real presence in the paint. His motor is non-stop. He's learning the nuances, defending without fouling, short, roll, short, short roll, passing and even flashing some mid-range touch. There's all-star upside with our guy jalen doran. If the pieces fit now with paul reed and beef stew, you know what you're getting.

Speaker 1 1:08:24

Paul reed, look, big ball. Paul is our guy. Okay, he's not one of our like complete guys, but what he does do is no nonsense. He got that dog mentality off the bench, his energy, his defense and a little you know, a little spiciness here and there. But if you really want to talk about spiciness, look no further than Isaiah Stewart, because if you want the ruckus brought to you, if you want to put some more bass in your voice, then you're going to see B-Stew on the other side. He's going gonna want to mix it up with you. You touch one of his guards. You best believe that by the end of the night you will have had some sort of physical confrontation with one isaiah stewart.

Speaker 1 1:09:19

Now he's kind of giving up the threes a little bit, uh, but he is still a monster. Now here's the best part. He's only six foot eight but he can bang in the post. He still steps out occasionally for the three, but his calling card is his physicality. He sets the tone. When duran sits down and gets in foul trouble, our guy b stew comes in and says it's gonna be a long day for you, fellas. It's gonna be a long day for you because I'm gonna bang damn near gang bang, but I'm gonna bang. And then you have twice har Harris. Tobias Harris has been in the league a long ass time. He's still steady as ever. Not flashy he never was.

Speaker 1 1:10:09

One of the reasons why Philadelphia just kept pulling their hair out Little playmaking and, crucially, a common influence for the young core. He can play the four Stress. The defense, can't really carry the offense, but he can provide spacing If Kade or Ivy Is not on target that night. And let's not forget, tobias knows what it's like to play in detroit because he was there before. You know. I'm saying he knows detroit basketball.

Detroit's Frontcourt Construction

Speaker 1 1:10:51

Now, duncan duncan robertson was brought in basically as the replacement to malik beasley. Malik beasley was a volume three point shooter and a movement shooter off the wall. Duncan robertson is basically that same situation now because the spacing would have plummeted without beasley, with his little situation that he got going on. In comes duncan robertson. You get that movement shooter. He draws attention the moment he crosses half court. He can change the geometry of the offense and Cade needs that. The Pistons will need his floor spacing to help Cade and Ivy get downhill and open up the driving lanes for our guy Asur Thompson and Ron Holland.

Speaker 1 1:11:43

Carousel Vert is your bench microwave dude. Okay, he can handle the ball, which is great or be like that second side initiator. That's where he really flourished in Cleveland. He can run, pick and roll, he can create some of his own offense and sometimes If you squint and you look, tilt your head to the side, you might be the best goer on the floor. Now, your cage is on the floor. There ain't no chance of this. Okay, now there's some cold nights with our guy karis all right. There's some other nights where he'll play off wall, he'll make the extra pass, he'll do some cardio situations, he'll be a connector, but the shot will leave and then you kind of go like, oh, I don't know what's going on now. The wild card in this whole situation is chas on there. Don't sleep on. Chas on there all right. Every year there's a summer league guy who crashes the rotation. Lanier's shooting and his quick release give him a real shot at bench minutes, especially if the Pistons need more spacing.

Speaker 1 1:12:54

A note from Soraya Detroit has the capability of going 11 deep. They're never going 11 deep. They got optionality. They got different type of guards. You can go through them and, depending on the matchup the matchup that night we can go ahead and pick out which guard. We can just spin the wheel and make the deal and get whoever in there to provide what you need that night. Now I do agree with that. Let's get into. Let's get into what asar and ivy have kind of gone through. Some leads don't just show up, they kick the door down.

Speaker 1 1:13:40

In the pistons case files, two names keep coming back Arsura Thompson and Jay Nivey, both projected core pieces, both thrown off the track by medical setbacks last year. I will tell you this Arsura Thompson in his second year, high motor already a fan favorite he had a blood clot that made him miss 18 games. We were scared for him a little bit and then our guy just came back with a vengeance. The question isn't just if he. My whole thing with him is this. He's gotta shoot the ball, he's gotta shoot it. Top 10 in steals per 36 minutes among nba wings.

Speaker 1 1:14:38

After his return block rate serves to 25 defensive box plus minus a plus 2.4 in the last month of the season and up from uh a plus one pre-injury opponent shot only 42 percent at the rim when he was the closest defender elite for a wing, whether it's a vet or second year do. That's absolutely awesome. And in the final 15 games he led the team in deflections, contested shots and what coaches call disruption plays. He wasn't just filling a role, he was setting the tone. He's a defensive hack, uh havoc weapon. His instincts you can't teach and it's like he spent his times off studying the league best disruptors and came back and then taught a ted talk you know I saying.

Speaker 1 1:15:41

But here's the full file on the offense. It's still in progress. He shot 32% from three-point land. His pull-up mid-range was only 23%. That is putrid. Yet post-injury he found more ways to score running in transition. Ways to score running in transition, attacking all cuts and taking taking smarter risks. Sorea asked this. He's finished the year with a league average true shooting percentage. But he forced coaches to play him because every game he flipped two or three possessions all on his own. Not many second year players get that least, especially after the health scare.

Speaker 1 1:16:28

Let's not skip the context on asura's absence. Uh, they went 3 and 15 without him. Uh, bleeding into bleeding points on the wing. When he returned, that defensive rating improved, and by nearly 6 points per 100 possessions. If you want evidence of his value, start with just the team impact. Now we're going to need to talk about our guy Jaden Ivey a little bit.

Speaker 1 1:16:57

This is the high wire act. This is a guy who was supposed to be Cade in crime all season long. Uh, january 1st happened and it was. It was scary. It was a game against orlando magic. He's driving a drive that went. That went wrong. He fractured his left fibula. He had surgery within 24 hours. Obviously was season ending and uh, you know we were like that's tough, tough situation.

Speaker 1 1:17:32

February and march no weight bearing whatsoever. Then gradual rehab. April clear for light court work. Late may, full speed workouts, ramping up with trainers and he is now eligible for all basketball activities to be cleared. He's ready for camp, so that's good news that he's ready to go.

Speaker 1 1:17:55

Let's examine pre-injury evidence of what he was looking like. He was averaging 8.2 drives a game finishing at a 59 percent clip. His free throw rate was among the league's best for his position and he was 92nd percentile. That's awesome 36 percent from three, up from 33 percent as a rookie. And the confidence in the catch and shoot threat for show that was working. On court impact, he was point. He was plus 4.8 points per 100 possessions. Detroit looked faster, looser and more dangerous with him running the break.

Speaker 1 1:18:39

This is a note from Soraya. What the tape shows isn't just stats, it's pressure. Ivy collapses defenses, forces, rotations, gets Biggs into foul trouble. His pace changes the math for Detroit's offense, but there's always a catch, always a catch. Pick and roll turnover rate 17%. He's gotten tightened up on those reads. Defense awareness is still developing. Uh, he gets caught watching sometimes instead of reacting.

Ausar Thompson & Jaden Ivey's Return

Speaker 1 1:19:13

How quickly does the burst and the decision making return after the leg injury? Because you know what they say right, it's really the year after the year right of the injury where you become normal again. How much is going to trust the leg? Is the muscle memory still there? How long before the confidence matches the balance? Those are the kind of questions that we have to ask. So what does this mean for the Pistons, two developing studs, both with real scars, both with immense talent to rewrite Detroit's fate. If a sewer keeps escalating on defense and finds a rhythm offensively, he can be a two-way nightmare. And if Ivy speeds and drives are back To what pre injury form look like, suddenly Cade has a real partner again. Let's ask some.

Speaker 1 1:20:18

See evidence for our listeners in the last 15 games. Seen evidenced for our listeners in the last 15 games. Asura was healthy right. Detroit's fast break points jumped nearly 30 opposing teams turnover spike when asura was on the court. Defensive pressure everywhere. In simulated lineups theistons most used young core lineup held opponents to just 108 points per 100 possessions Top 10 defense in the league by league standards.

Speaker 1 1:20:53

Now we need to get to KA Cunningham. In every city there's a main suspect and for the Pistons it's KA Cunningham, one of the all eyes are on him type of player. This is the franchise that can't win without him. Letting you know right now this dude is real box office. Let's get to it. 26.1 points a game, 9.1 assists and 6.1 rebounds. He shot overall 47 percent from the field, 35.6 percent from three, 51.5 percent on twos and 84.6 percent from the free throw line. Usage rate was 33.2 his per, which I do not like this stat, but it does. It does show us some value. 26 or 20.6, that's clearly all-star territory. His shooting, his true shooting percentage, was a point. He was 56.5, total rebound percentage 9.6. His assist percentages was 43% and he had an offensive box plus minus of positive 3.8. That's crazy and his was 3.7. So for all the skeptics, he finished 7th in MVP voting and made an All-Star team and took 13 All-NBA honors.

Speaker 1 1:22:33

It was the full array of Cade Cunningham. Cade's passing, next level. Again, it was a career high in assists. We just told you the number is 9.1. Now the turnovers were up per game. It was 4.4, 16 percent rate off, pick and roll.

Speaker 1 1:22:54

What his growth was. His growth was real. His decision making still on trial. But let's give him some slack because of the ivy injury, because of the just the in fluctuation of the of all the players in the in and out of the rock of starting lineup. Say that again. Let's give him a break for just the fluctuations in the starting lineup.

Speaker 1 1:23:27

Ivy goes down with an injury. You got to replace him. You didn't have asar at his full regalia until later in the season. This is a dude that had a lot of had a lot of weight on his back and he still produced at a high level. In every good trial you need reliable witnesses, and for k that starts with jay nivey and asura thompson. Two players with that went through battle, through injury and whatever. Um, obviously jayden ivy missed like 52 games with the broken fibula. His last full season though, 22.7 points a game. He was killing it. Suneraya's note Detroit was nearly plus 5 per 100 possessions with Ivey on the court. His pace, his pressure and his improvement as a shooter make him Cade's best partner when healthy. You gotta see it, and I hope we will this year.

Speaker 1 1:24:31

And here's the other thing that we want to talk about with this too, is that remember Ivy was this dude that kind of got stuck with the Monty Williams situation and that was terrible. It just stymied his development. He was getting pulled out of in and out of the lineup. It was just nuts. It was, you know. I know he was trying to show him like, hey, you can't play this way, whatever, I get that, but you gotta do this in a more constructive way.

Cade Cunningham's Star Potential

Speaker 1 1:25:06

And then, once they pivoted to JB Bickerstaff, we saw, you know, a real improved Jaden Ivey. And then Tragedy struck when he had the broken fibula Stats aren't enough. They really aren't. But With Ron Holland who Played his ass off last year Even though he couldn't shoot, they got a solid lineup. And here's the reason why I don't Adhere to the B minus situation. On their offseason they had a need that they didn't know they were going to need. Okay, when you lose Malik Beasley, the way you lost him, and you quickly pivot and get Duncan Robinson to fill that void, that's a good situation.

Speaker 1 1:25:59

When it comes to the other guys, when it comes to oh well, they didn't get this, they didn't do this any, they didn't do this or whatever, that's because we still don't know what jayden ivy is. We still don't know what he can be. Okay. The other thing is, what is asar thompson? Because he showed out and he looked a lot like his brother, maybe less playmaking, less playmaking, but on the defensive end, sick and if the shooting becomes real, detroit gonna be really hard to beat, really hard. So to me, k just needs to kind of allow his do his thing, be the floor general that he is. K's lead was undeniable last year. He got MVP votes, he made an all-NBA team, so he's certified. But if Ivy can get back to what Ivy was pre-injury and a sore Thompson continues his ascent.

Speaker 1 1:27:14

The moves that you did not make might become even more dangerous at this point, because now you have real clarity of what your team is now. I'm not saying that ivy's definitely a number two or even a number three at this point, I'm not saying those things but I think he deserves the opportunity to show you what he can be. So then you know exactly what you need when next year comes around. And if you're on the jury and you're looking at Cade as a franchise savior, does the evidence convince you that Detroit's time and their franchise player is right in front of your eyes, or is that case still open? You guys are going gonna have to be the judge on that one.

Speaker 1 1:28:05

I will say this about them, about the detroit christians, so you can talk about the b-minus grade. You know, I think that's for inpatient, inpatient people. I think right now, like we said before, you're looking to ingest your medicine, sort of off season, with Ivy coming back. The Pistons need to know what these guys are. I just said that, but we need to hammer that home. Here's the hard truth. Patient is smart, but it's also a test of the city's faith. A gettable Eastern Conference is tempting to take shortcuts. Here's the thing it is seriously enticing to dream about long playoff runs in a weekend east. But maybe cage jump another level. Ivy gets healthy, because I think we'll see a better Ivy in the second half of the season than we will see in the first half of the season.

Speaker 1 1:29:09

Asur, if he can stay on the court due to his shot making, and all of a sudden you're in the mix. Now all the things you were looking for you already have on the team and they're super young and they're controllable contracts. Right now, and I'm going to tell you right now Detroit Cannot fall for the banana and tailpipe. Not again, not again. Don't make Quick decisions and Quick gratification, quick gratification deals.

Speaker 1 1:29:48

Go through the growing pains with asura thompson, go through the growing pains with jay naivi. See what you have, assess what you have and then, and only then, do you make a decision. I think you go through this year, you see what you got and then next year it's like okay, we know what this dude is, we know what this guy is, let's go, we can. Okay, we need to work around the margins or we definitely need a secondary scorer, or whatever the case may be, and then you will know distinctly what it is that you need. Follow the OKC playbook, follow the Orlando Magic playbook, follow the Houston Rockets playbook. Those three teams did that. Houston waited on Jalen Green forever, or it seemed like forever, it wasn't, it was like four years. This dude is still what, 23 years of age, you know. Jay Nivey is still young. We don't know what's going on. Or Stuart Thompson is still a baby With the athleticism. And then you still got Ron Holland. That's another mystery package that you haven't opened yet. Got Ron Holland that's another mystery package that you haven't opened yet.

Speaker 1 1:31:05

Detroit is your edge of your seat mystery right now. The twists they're young. They're young guys. The enticement this team can make noise or hit the turbulence and remind us that the path to relevance is never linear. The 2025-2026 season that's when the curtain should start to lift. By then, detroit should have the answers, or at least much a clearer perception about which of these kids can really unlock the playoff doors for Detroit basketball.

Speaker 1 1:31:48

And remember this we're not that far removed from the Troy Weaver list of experiments, such as James Wiseman, marvin Bagley Jr. That took minutes away from Jalen Duren, and don't forget Killian Hayes Getting real minutes Ahead of Jay Nivey and Marcus Sasser, couldn't even get on the court. He was collecting dust on the bench. Piston fans Send a courtesy cheer up card To the Pelican fans Because they're going to need it, because you know who's running their team Troy Weaver. It's like the Scream movie series Never ends. It's always somebody cutting up somebody. So again, I think right now For fans.

Speaker 1 1:32:37

To be honest, I think, being patient Might I know you went through some real bad seasons. You probably need, need, you know, a palate cleanser. But look at this year. It's just like orlando last year. Well, no, maybe not orlando last year. I'm trying to think who's the team? Look at them, look at yourself as houston last year. Now I know houston was the second overall seed and all that. You might not reach those heights, but you have some really talented young pieces that need to grow, that need development, and I think that this is the type of season where you can see that development. And if the leash is given, which JB Bickerstaff has shown, that he is willing to allow the young kids to flourish, I think you might be better off allowing these type of things to happen than to go out and oh, I got to get a big name.

Speaker 1 1:33:34

Right now this is most of wait and see season in a decade for the Detroit Pistons. That's frustrating but also intriguing. It means every game counts for something. Every young player it's an audition, every vet is a stabilizer and every loss or win is a clue to the long-term mystery that is the det Pistons. I'll be watching, you'll be watching, and if the Pistons crack the code, you'll want to say you saw it coming and we gave you all of that.

Speaker 1 1:34:12

Okay, all NBA point guard is he. Is he going to continue to stay at that level? Jay Nivey is he the backcourt? Is he the backcourt partner that kade desires? Or will we find out that they need to do an upgrade, they need to do a software upgrade, and what kind of things pop out of that? Can asar thompson be his brother and ron holland become an athletic wing defender? Det Detroit has been chasing since Tayshaun Prince Love, tayshaun Prince that's my guy Shots out to TP down in Memphis and are you buying Doran's future all-star capability? Is he a modern day qualms the ground? I know a lot of people are Like shouting at their Phone right now, like you called my guy Kwame Brown. No, I didn't I said is he an all star or does he turn out to be Kwame Brown? So listen, pay attention, let us know. Hit us up on Twitter On X, at FrontrunnerPC, or at Rhea underscore Funch, frpc. Let us know what you think.

Speaker 1 1:35:31

If your thoughts are good, they will end up on the podcast. I cannot, I cannot demonstrate this enough. I cannot reiterate this enough. Give us good thoughts On these particular items that we talked about today and I promise you, if they're good, they end up on the pod. This is front runner podcast collective. I'm vince your detroit basketball. It's a mystery, but it's one Worth watching and I can't wait to watch it. Kate is going to be phenomenal this year, by the way. Kate is going to be absolutely phenomenal. Cannot wait to see it.

Episode Closing Thoughts

Speaker 1 1:36:14

As we close, here's your reminder. The best part of you is you Surround yourself with people who are supportive, mindful and who lift you up higher, and if you already have that kind of crew around you, celebrate them, appreciate them, because we are not promised tomorrow. Folks, thank you for being part of the growing front runner podcast collective family. Remember to be a friend and tell a friend about the podcast. You know, I'm saying because we do not have any advertising budget whatsoever. Word of mouth is how we get down around here. So for frpc, we appreciate you and we will see you on friday. Feel good, friday will commence and you will be a part of it. Hallelujah, you guys. Have a good one and we'll see you all later on in the week. Deuces.