The Bolton Inc Effect
Join Louis and Bridgette Bolton as they pull back the curtain on what happens when two people dare to build something remarkable - a business, a life, a legacy. Through candid conversations about, relationships, entrepreneurship, video production, and the art of building together, they're redefining what's possible when you combine creativity, strategy, and partnership in a new land.
The Bolton Inc Effect
Eps 07 When Parents Age: Handling Death, Documents, and Dragons
Louis shares his emotional and practical journey of returning to South Africa after seven years to help his aging parents organize their finances and end-of-life planning while navigating the role reversal that comes with being the adult in the room.
• Taking on the practical responsibilities of obtaining bank and general power of attorney
• Discovering that Louis's father had been more financially responsible than expected but was overwhelmed by administration
• Confronting the technology barriers aging parents face when companies move to digital systems
• Creating a comprehensive "purple file" containing all essential information for after death
• Navigating the emotional reality of becoming the parent to your parents
• Finding peace with having two homes - South Africa in heart, New Zealand as home
• Learning to just listen instead of reacting during difficult conversations
If you're facing similar challenges with aging parents, start the conversation sooner rather than later. These discussions aren't easy, but they provide clarity and peace of mind for everyone involved.
www.boltoninc.co.nz
The Bolton Inc Effect.
Speaker 2:Hey there, I'm Louis and I'm Bridget. Welcome to the Bolton Inc Effect podcast, where we are navigating new horizons.
Speaker 1:Each week, we're pulling back the curtain on what it really takes to build something remarkable A business, a life and a legacy.
Speaker 2:So join us as we share honest conversations about relationship, entrepreneurship, video production and the art of building a life together in a new land.
Speaker 1:Because sometimes the biggest risks lead to the greatest rewards. How?
Speaker 2:can we help?
Speaker 1:Can I ask you a question? The Bolton Inc effect. So Louis just returned from South Africa and there was some interesting learnings, and we've decided to shift our schedule out a little bit and go back and explore some of the things that happened for Louis when he was in South Africa, because it very much fits in with the podcast that we had our previous podcast which is about being the sandwich generation. So, without putting you on the spot, I just want to be clear about the fact that we haven't done any prep for this. This is really just well. We haven't done any prep for this. This is really just well. You haven't done any prep. I don't really.
Speaker 1:I haven't given you much of an idea of what we're going to talk about, because I didn't want you to come with prepared answers, because life isn't always, doesn't always, give you the opportunity to prepare. So so, hi Bridge, hi Louis, how are you, my darling? So, like I said, you've just returned from South Africa where you helped your parents through a rather challenging chapter for them, and it turned out to be quite a challenging chapter for you. So I wasn't there. You and Miss 14 went and did this adventure on your own, and it wasn't really only about logistics. There were some emotional elements that needed to be unpacked and addressed while you were there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think, just for context before I answer that question, because I think it's very relevant. I think it's very relevant. What we're going to talk about is that I have wanted to go back for a long time to go and see my parents and sort them out, because they are aging. My dad will be 85 in September this year 2025, and my mom will be 83. The reason I haven't gone back is because I've been on a journey of immigration and visa requirements didn't allow me, in good conscience, to go back to South Africa without jeopardizing what I had created here in New Zealand, building a new home for my family, for you and for Miss 14. So there have been hours and hours and hours of discussion between you and me about where I should go, how I should go, what I should do, all the complications and all the flippant energy that I've poured into what-ifs and future pace not future pacing, but what the scenario might be. I had an idea, but there were lots of boxes that need to be checked and there were lots of discussions that had to be had and the agonizing conversations that you and I had time and time again over coffee of a breakfast, over lunches, during your your time at work at night. It was exhausting and, um, a couple of months ago, after we got permanent residency, I spoke to you and I said, all right, I'm going to do it.
Speaker 2:Um, purely because miss 14 was going on holiday and we booked the tickets, we took her out of school for the last week and, yeah, it was pretty much the time to kind of have the conversations that I needed to do with my parents.
Speaker 2:I had pre-prepped them a couple of weeks before. I had phoned them and said this is what I would like you to do, this is what I would like to achieve. So there was an upfront what's the word? Questioning, or requirements or request from both my parents to get stuff done. So that's just a little bit of context for you know, for the listeners out there and I was quite nervous is the wrong word I was looking forward to going back, but I didn't know what to expect, because I wasn't only gonna go spend time for parents, I was gonna go and spend time with some of my friends that I hadn't seen. You're my friends that we haven't seen for many, many years. So that, all mixed in with a daddy-daughter trip to South Africa, was exciting and extremely nerve-wracking, at the same time um yeah and answer your question yeah and so and so, as you say, this isn't a, this isn't a dear diary.
Speaker 1:We're going to go and explore how, how difficult or how easy this was. The thing that stood out for me is how many, how many comments we got on the last on, on that last podcast, how many people it it touched, and I think we we touched so briefly on it being one up and one down. Yeah, and there are so many other aspects, some that we're not even qualified to talk about, like the financial side of it, the legalities and all that sort of thing. But all of us are navigating our age, are navigating a journey with our parents. Some of our parents are divorced, some of our parents have met somebody else, and there are other complications with that. Some parents have died, a partner has died, or one or both of the parents have died, and that in itself is very traumatic.
Speaker 1:Whether you're a Kiwi or whether you're a South African or an Indian or an American, you've still, you know, separated by vast hours, geographic distance, absolutely. And so the reason that I wanted to come back and visit that is because there is quite a bit to unpack, and so, in my mind, I thought I wanted to tackle this in four ways, and the first thing is the reality check. So when we go, you know if you're local and you go home to your parents, whether it's for Father's Day or Mother's Day, or you know if they live in a different region, or if you fly to South Africa or to another country to go and visit them, and it's been some time. There's a reality check, and so that, for me, is when you landed some time, there's a reality check, and so that, for me, is when you landed, what hit you the hardest was it. Was it something that hit you emotionally or was it something that hit you practically?
Speaker 2:the fatigue, other than the fatigue, because, yeah, anybody who needs to travel oh lord, yeah, any time longer than 10 hours in a metal tube is long 100. The first thing that hit me was the realization that this shit was going to get real, that I was actually in the country of my birth and, apart from navigating, you know, landing at Oro Tambo and all the people, and realizing we had to get mobile SIM cards that we could stay in contact and organize getting to the car rental place to get the car, I suddenly realized I was like I was in it now. Now it was time to operate and I had my daughter there, which added a wonderful dimension, because I think she softened it in a way, because it wasn't just all about me. I had to look after her, but she didn't leave looking after, if that makes any sense. So the overwhelming sense of shit's about to get real was the overwhelming feeling I had.
Speaker 1:And what did you notice had changed? Okay, so let's define it. What did you notice had changed with your parents in the six or seven years since you've seen them?
Speaker 2:okay, so my parents live about 20 minutes from the airport and I haven't been back for seven years. The first thing that hit me, based on all the conversations that I had had with other people who had gone subsequently back to South Africa, and the infrastructure and the traffic and and blah, blah blah was the age of the place it had.
Speaker 1:It looked older, it looked more tatty, it looked a bit more run down okay, um, in terms of the emotional things, um, where did you, where did you land with that? Because you were with your parents for a week, so what had shifted there?
Speaker 2:you know, bridge, you know I hear you talking to me now and I'm trying to put this into the words as best I can, and words actually fail me. I've done so much internal work on myself prior to going to South Africa. Why did you need to do that? To protect myself From what? From being too emotional, too dramatic?
Speaker 1:Do you have a tendency towards?
Speaker 2:drama I do. I do have it's who I am. Okay, and anyone who knows me will tell you that the drama and you're laughing. You laugh about it.
Speaker 1:Yes, I guess, but it's who I am, yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm comfortable with that, okay. So I think I did a lot of prep work for myself, knowing that it had to be quite transactional.
Speaker 1:So there were many roles that have shifted.
Speaker 2:I mean you really had to take the lead. I never saw it as money roles changing. I saw it a change of I needed to step up and be the parent when I recognized that my parents are aging. And that was, in essence, also very difficult, because I remember arriving at you know where I stay, where I grew up, the house that I grew up in, and my dad walking down the driveway and nothing had changed except he was older, more bent. Bevan is older, a little bit more stooped, a little bit thinner, a little bit more stooped, but it's like time stood still and I can't explain it any other way. We're seven years of going through everything that you and I and Miss 14 have gone through and yet here my dad was walking down the driveway, a little bit more potholed, the grass a little bit longer, the trees a bit bigger, the pigeons still eating the birdseed off the floor. You know it was surreal.
Speaker 1:So nothing physically, visually, had changed Other than the age. But over that week that you were with them, quite a lot had to be sorted for you, so there were a lot of dragons that you had to slay.
Speaker 2:I had to hit the ground running.
Speaker 2:I didn't want to spend my entire holiday with them, so I had planned to stay with them for a week and a bit to sort out as much as I possibly could, with the main aim of finding out what the financial situation of my parents was, and I had to get to the bottom of a few details about what they wanted to do upon their death.
Speaker 2:So I needed to get the financial situation in order and in South Africa that required me to go and get power of attorney bank power of attorney or financial power of attorney plus general power of attorney plus also find out exactly what investments, what the money situation was with both my parents and I'm not going to go into that on this podcast, but needless to say, it was eye-opening and quite confronting. The part that was really kind of interesting was that I had to do this twice because my mom and dad are divorced but live together and they don't want to share what each other have got or share the information. So I had to have two separate meetings for lack of a word or consultations with my parents. These are the people that gave birth to me, so it was fucking hard and not fun, but it had to be done.
Speaker 1:And I think, think your dad's and I think we've alluded to this before is is of that generation where the financial side gets looked after by, by the man, and it's that very stoic kind of that, that generation of south african man who who sits in control of it and who really manages it for everybody. And here you were insisting that a lot of that control be handed over to you, because your dad has let some of the details slip. So it was only practically on your last day, if I recall, that you overheard by chance a phone call and you discovered that in fact your parents' financial situation wasn't as dire as we'd initially thought, because there was a whole another side to it that he'd forgotten.
Speaker 2:One of the biggest realisations that I had in opening up this conversation, and the fear I had was that exactly what you're saying about my dad being that stoic kind of non-communicative person that he was growing up was that it was the exact opposite, that he was now overwhelmed by any piece of information, so the information coming out of him was quite forthcoming. So you were suddenly the adult in the room. I was suddenly the adult in the room. The difference was that he didn't feel it necessary or didn't even think he actually didn't even think to say to me that he was meeting with his financial advisor while I was there and.
Speaker 2:But there was the whole point of you going to correct because he didn't want to upset the investment advisor because they had a change of schedule. So I had to be the parent and phone them back and say I'm here now, please can we make it tomorrow, or whatever the case was, which was absolutely fine. My dad was incapable of doing that, so that was a massive lesson for me to go. I'm going to have to lead this all the way, and we did. We met and we discussed and we sorted out and, to the best of my ability, I've achieved 90% of what I wanted to achieve.
Speaker 1:So those practicalities were you had to go to the bank with your dad and get a bank power of attorney. So you had to get your dad to agree to that, because that's never really been on the cards before.
Speaker 2:He was like putty in my hands. Okay, there was no resistance, other than he had to remember where he'd actually put some in my hands. Okay, there was no resistance, resistance, other than he had to remember where he'd actually put some stuff.
Speaker 2:So that's right, yeah we and this is a so it's something I would love to tell other parents out there who have got older parents. It's like find a space or find a file or a locker or a suitcase or a shelf that all the important documents are kept in, because what I realized was that the massive amount of change and the confrontation of talking about your demise cannot be easy. It wasn't easy for me, let alone being on the receiving end as a parent. They come from a generation where that was not spoken about. You don't. You didn't talk about things like your death. You life was a lot slower and a lot simpler. Let's just call it what it was. There wasn't the amount of information and the amount of stuff that that happens today.
Speaker 2:One of the biggest problems that I have at the moment is that older generations I'm talking boomers and later that never kept up with technology are frightened of it and I didn't realize. Some of them are frightened of it. Yeah, they are frightened of it, and I mean some of them, but the folks that are are petrified of it because there's no education and people get left behind. They get letters in the post saying we are moving to email, we are moving to a digital. It doesn't even register for them because they don't know what that means. They don't even have internet at home. And I'm not saying this is for everyone and it's not about laying fault or blame, but think about that for a second Bridge, where you've lived your whole life because you've got a paper copy which you can open and you can file and you can see, and it's tangible and there's a telephone number that you can phone on a landline and speak to someone.
Speaker 2:Now, all of a sudden, you're getting an automated letter saying we're moving to email and you haven't even been educated on that. You understand it. But maybe the technology that you've got is outdated because your computer needs to be updated.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and if you don't have somebody close by that does that.
Speaker 2:And then you've got to take that computer into a shop, drive into a shop. The person behind the counter doesn't necessarily have your best interest, interested heart and charges your fortune for something that you only that you could have done, quite simply. So I'm saying these hurdles need to be understood and need to be listened to, and then you have to find a different way of doing things. So what I had to do was connect my dad's email to me. So once every couple of weeks I will go through his email If anything important comes. I can then phone him on the landline, because he doesn't have data on his phone, because his data disappears. He has no way it disappears too.
Speaker 2:Again, I didn't have enough time to kind of go through it. So all these little hurdles, all these little things which you and I take for granted, miss 14 takes for granted, sometimes needs to be navigated and understood a little bit better. And I do have an issue with the whole system at large. The elderly people are being left behind. Nobody, I'm not saying all of them, but it's really really tough for me as well, as a son.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that is a challenge for them, because they have to grasp a world that and it's not their fault no, no that we've been.
Speaker 2:We've just moved on. You know our generation. We said in a previous podcast, we've had a foot in pre-internet yeah exactly. So we, we managed to keep up as best we can, and some of us are better than others, but we understand, we get on with it. So the change is quite easy. But when you, when you, when you just step in their shoes lightly, it must be absolutely yeah, frightening, quite frightening for them, yeah, so so just to recap the the practical steps there.
Speaker 1:So there's a bank power of attorney that is required specifically in south africa I'm not sure what the status of of other countries, or even yeah, and I don't press, then you need to be an expert in any manner of field, but as I understand it, yes, so there's a bank power of attorney, then there's a general power of attorney.
Speaker 1:Both of those fall away on the demise or… Upon death. It falls away, yeah, on the demise of that person, or if they… Mentally incapacitated. That's the word I was looking for, thank you. The executor of the will needs to be sorted out, so you need a will, and your dad had to update his will because some of the stuff was left to a dead sibling.
Speaker 2:Correct. So both my parents had to update their will, which they did at your pushing, a fairly quick process. It was a telephone call that I made. They could do it and they needed to sign and it was all sorted.
Speaker 1:So, as I understand it in South Africa, basically what happens is they have a will and the will then appoints an executive, which is the bank, because of the financial situation, and then they are um executives of that will, or or the, the benefactors of benefactors, which will be myself and my brother, or my mom or dad in either case, whatever the case is, yeah, so the executor is the bank, and so you went and you, you met the bank, in addition to which you met, and so what I wanted to say earlier on is that, standing on the outside observing, it felt like there were so many different hurdles in terms of some of the financial decisions that your dad had made which, back in the day, was popular. So there was unit trusts, and then there was getting shares there, and then there's this annuity there and there was this thing there. So you had this massive basket of things, correct, but as you say, if you're falling out of touch with your own universe, stuff just in that basket just gets completely forgotten, correct?
Speaker 2:Even I was fortunate enough to sit with the one financial advisor who bless her. I have never met somebody so empathetic with an 85-year-old. For you and me, it would have been quite easy to go through that you know pages and pages of documents and spreadsheets in terms of what the unit trusts and the diversification and what you're going to get and when you're going to get it. And she literally went line item by line item by line item that my dad made sure that he understood exactly what was happening.
Speaker 2:It was standing from the outside. It was wonderful to witness where he understood exactly what was happening. The challenge is…. Still lacked the capacity to make a couple of decisions though.
Speaker 1:Indeed, and I think that's exactly what I was just about to say. The challenge is, even with all of that information, it still leaves him incapacitated.
Speaker 2:He still has no idea. It's just so much information.
Speaker 1:And there are so many different pockets of financial pay points that it's just very difficult to get a full context for what they have. And then you discover that there were some shares there, but in order to convert those shares to cash, there's this whole process that you have to go through. And so, yes, I get that. For the three of you, for your mom, your dad and yourself, things must have been exhausting. By the end of it. They were probably happy to see you go. Well, yeah, and I know that you were very relieved to to, to get some comedic relief, you know, by going by going to some friends.
Speaker 2:Um, what did this trip teach you about responsibility, now that you are the adult in the room, as we've said, you know, the one thing that I realized, having sat down with my dad and talking to him, was that he was actually very responsible. He actually did more than what I've done in terms of his, in terms of his financial future. He actually put money away. He had investments and he diligently paid into those investments, more so than what I've done. The problem is, inflation has kicked his ass to the curb. He didn't keep up with the cost of living from when he was working in his 50s to where he is now in his 80s and that's where having a relationship with a financial advisor potentially mitigates some of that vital so that you actually hedge yourself against inflation and you change and you diversify and you find other ways to beat beat that inflation.
Speaker 2:So he has a very short runway, which is his biggest fear.
Speaker 1:His worry, my dad's worry at 85 is about running out of money yeah, of course, and it's not only a worry for them, it's a worry for you and your brother and and my wife well, absolutely know, and yes there is a bit of a runway there, but it's a very frugal runway.
Speaker 2:But he did the work Bridge. I can't fault him. No, sure it's not like he just sat back and said there's nothing.
Speaker 1:So back to the question. What does this trip teach you about responsibility?
Speaker 2:I'm still processing that because I think it's about taking massive action with your own life and responsibility for it, because you don't think about the future.
Speaker 1:Okay. So are you feeling a bit overwhelmed? Because ever since you've been back, there's a sense that I can't quite get my finger on. I know you're happy to be back, very, and this is your home and this is your home, but there's definitely something going on that we haven't quite been able to identify or tap into or resolve. It's like this little pressure point. I know this sounds revolting, but it's like a pimple and yeah, it needs to be lanced or squeezed. I don't know how to do it because I'm not quite sure what's sitting there, but just listening to you now, I'm feeling that there might be a bit of overwhelm, because what you've said is you've said two things your dad was very responsible and your dad has done more than you've done. So is that a worry for you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is. It is a bit of a concern.
Speaker 1:And is that what's causing you?
Speaker 2:I don't know, I don't know Bridge Sitting here and, as you've rightly said, it's been over a week and I'm feeling a little bit numb. Okay, so I am giving myself the gift of time.
Speaker 1:Okay, okay. So let's stick with the analytical stuff, because that's easier to digest. Was there a moment where you surprised yourself in terms of how you responded or how you didn't?
Speaker 2:Being the dramatic character that you are, I'm going to and the listeners out there, just bear with me for a second. I'm going to give thanks to you in this regard and I'm not trying to blow smoke up your ass here. Well, I quite like that, but well, okay, that's a different conversation, not one for this podcast, but I truly did not speak back.
Speaker 2:When I had the opportunity to, I sat and I just listened. I was just there and I took a leaf out of your book when you listened to Miss 14 and didn't have to answer, didn't have to guide or advise or anything like that, and that was probably the biggest thing that I can take away from what you asked me is just to be there, because there were some incredibly difficult conversations to have about death, how they wanted to be cremated or buried.
Speaker 1:Correct what song they wanted played. What do you want?
Speaker 2:to happen. How do you see it? And you don't think about that.
Speaker 1:And I guess your dad's quite practical and he's like well, I'm dead, Just burn me and move on.
Speaker 2:But your mom went on a different journey. When we entered the conversation he's like yeah, just you know I'm dead, cremate me and that's it. But there was a pause and then he said it would be really nice if you and grant were there. I mean, that's like for my dad to say that he'd actually given it some, some thought, some thoughts. So it was massive for me. I had to hold back. Yeah, of course you've got to understand for him to for him to be able to say that no, I hear you because I know him and recognize that he was going to be dead and then say it would be really nice if you and your brother were there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I hear you. So back to the question, in terms of how you surprised yourself, it was the it was. If I hear you, it was your ability to just hear them and listen to them and not react, correct, yeah, so? Not react and also just keep on task, okay um, was there any time when you thought yourself, ah, I didn't know I'd have to do this shit yeah when I landed in South Africa.
Speaker 2:You know, I think you know, just listening to you ask that question I remember when I was a teenager maybe. I remember being at my uncle's house my dad's brother and them having a conversation with my then grandmom. I didn't know what the details were, but I knew it was a quite a serious conversation and I remember it being about what do you want to do? In the end, oh yeah, and sitting with my folks. Subsequently last month, I was reminded of that memory. Oh okay, going, it's my turn now. What does that look like and how does that unfold? So yeah, and it was a special time. I learned more about my mom and dad in the week and a half that I was with them than I have in my entire 50 years, because we spoke about… Also the roles were reversed, there was a vulnerability and you spoke about death, which is not something that you have a Sunday conversation with.
Speaker 2:The emotions were high and low. I mean, I was shouted at, I was screamed at, I was told to walk out of the room. Oh dear, and I get it Now, I get it At the time. It was volatile because you know it's confronting.
Speaker 1:Well, you haven't alluded to any of that confrontation so it sounded like it was all very calm and all very placid and and everybody behaved. It was all calm, but I take it that it's yes, and and when and when things are this emotive, then it's impossible. That was the responsibility of being an adult, yeah yeah, yeah, um, did you feel like a good son?
Speaker 2:I wish I could have done more.
Speaker 1:I feel like I could have done more when you were there or just in general in your life.
Speaker 2:Yeah, when I was there. Okay, when I was there, I wish I could do more in my life. I wish I could. I wish I was financially independent or stable enough that I could send money home every month. I wish I could more. So I think there's a little bit of I don't want to use the word, but you know what guilt, yeah, okay, and that's unfair. That's unfair on you, it's unfair on me a little bit of I don't want to use the word, but you know what Guilt, yeah, and that's unfair. That's unfair on you, it's unfair on me, because it is what it is. This is the situation that has presented itself. Yeah, but they're my folks.
Speaker 1:Yeah, of course they're blood yeah. Yeah, of course. What does it even mean now in midlife, to be a good son actually?
Speaker 2:I think the question you're asking me is I don't know who said it, I wish I did know. But you become an adult when both your parents die and up until that point you're always a child. You're a daughter or a son, and that hasn't happened to me, and I know that that journey is imminent. So what does it mean to be a good son, to live the best that I possibly can and be the best that I can be for you and for Miss 14. And for myself, myself first, because if I can look after myself and take care of myself and be the best version of myself, the rest will follow.
Speaker 1:I think we've covered this a little bit, but this really falls under the section of navigating the sandwich generation. So how has this experience shifted your perspective on aging, care of aging and financials? So I know we've already said that, as far as the financial thing is concerned, you're feeling a little bit of overwhelm at the moment, feeling like you haven't done enough for yourself, and that is leading to you being a little bit like a rabbit in the headlights. Correct, you're not moving forward or back, correct, yeah?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a cuck place to be. I don't want to be here. I don't want to be in this situation, but I have to honor the feeling that's going through because I know that the pimple will be popped.
Speaker 1:You don't want to be in this situation, no I don't.
Speaker 2:I don't want to feel useless, I don't want to feel like I can't contribute and look after my own self, you know, in the years to come. But I've got to be gracious with myself that I went through, or I've got to be self-aware enough to know what I went through and to give myself a little bit of space and time and not just chuck myself back into the grindstone because I fear that it'll be the opposite end of the spectrum. So that limbo is a necessary part of me be able to move forward. Yeah, unfortunately, you are helping me. Just hold the space for that. Yeah, you will get to a point at the time where you'll kick me a boss, I know that, but up until then, I'm not waiting for that. I hope not. No, I'm not waiting for that, but I'm I definitely am still acclimatizing back into my own body and back into New Zealand.
Speaker 1:I think that we expect quite a lot of our bones and blood and spirit and mind Too much so.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because you don't go into a territory and slay all these dragons and then come back and carry on leading a life that you lived before. You're ultimately changed by all of those experiences and and the you know, some of the dragons that you slayed were fire breathers, and so there's a little bit of healing that needs to take place, and I and I don't need that. I don't intend that to sound um dramatic or whatever, but I do think that there's a time of adaptation and I think what's happening is you're kind of preparing yourself.
Speaker 2:I'm not the same person I was when I left, definitely not. No, I think that realization is what I'm trying to get to grips with. Yeah, yeah, I, I hear you. There's a whole, there's a whole recalibration of who I am. There's a whole reassessment of what the hell am I actually doing, and it's that weight of what do I want to do?
Speaker 1:But it's that weight of being a son and a father. Correct, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I might be running away a little bit. I have to admit that to myself. It's like I just I want to run away. Yeah, yeah, I hear you.
Speaker 1:You inevitably get to the point where that run away yeah, yeah, I hear you.
Speaker 2:You you inevitably get to the point where that you you've turned around and come back, yeah I'm like, ah, okay, I'm over this now I have to say that I have to, I have to acknowledge that, yeah, because I think, look, you're a deep feeling guy. I am, you know, and I'm so sick and tired of, of, of you see time and time again, all this information that comes to you, that you've got to flip and just face up and be a man and, you know, get on with it. Um, so I've I've tried to practice all the stuff that I'm learning and and understanding I'm trying to actually incorporate into my own, okay, but you have to sometimes just still the noise and think about that's what I'm doing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, just just think about, because tony robbins comes, comes to mind lot. There is so much information but so little knowledge and the only space and place that you get knowledge is when you listen to yourself. That's your job on planet Earth is know yourself. True, because if you know yourself, then you know what to do and you know how to go and you know where to go and you know how to behave and you know what your purpose is and how that changes. Just know yourself. Purposes and how that changes. Just know yourself. And so just sitting quietly with, with, with what you're going through is probably the most powerful thing that you could be doing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so, to be clear, I I I don't expect any more or any less from from you right now. Okay, good, good, um, what's the piece of advice that you would give somebody who hasn't yet had to deal with this, but will?
Speaker 2:Arm yourself with the knowledge that that conversation is coming.
Speaker 1:And actually that there are tools out there, because you refer often to the purple file, but you were saying, for example, in South Africa, on the AvBob site, which is the funeral, policy?
Speaker 2:We haven't even touched on the funeral policy. Actually, there are a number of resources available, and one of the resources what is the resource? Just explain it. So what I did was because the conversation about death and dying and and how you would like that to play out is a difficult one to have and there's stuff that you might miss out. So the purple file that I came across was literally a checklist for checking out.
Speaker 1:So that's do you have a Facebook account? Do you have a bank account? Do you have insurances?
Speaker 2:There's sections to it. So there's an obvious section about your personal details. There's an obvious section about all your accounts. There's a section about all your passwords and it's simple things like when you die, how do I open your phone?
Speaker 1:That's so true. What's?
Speaker 2:your pin code for your phone.
Speaker 1:What's your pin code for your?
Speaker 2:computer. What's your pin code for your computer?
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly what's your.
Speaker 2:ATM pin code. Who do I contact? Yeah, what's their name, what's their telephone number? Yeah, you know it might seem very obvious talking about it now, but in the moment, suddenly you need to contact someone and you don't have that contact and you pick up the phone and you can't get into the phone. Yeah, exactly so it's about having those conversations. So that checklist is literally just an information portal into what happens post-death and I've been through it a number of times now with my folks. My dear dad I love him to bits filled it out in pencil first because that's how he operates, and I went through it with him until he filled it up in pen and I love him for that. That's fine, and there was some stuff that we had to redo and et cetera, et cetera. It was beautiful.
Speaker 1:But if you think about a life lived, there are lot of things. I mean, do you give money to a charity? Is there a charity that you should? It's one of the questions what happens to your pets? What do you want? What do you want?
Speaker 2:to happen to your pets who looks after your pets?
Speaker 2:yeah, your um, your local church, your local um charity, as, as you rightly said. Do you want all your friends at your funeral? Are there people that you don't want? Are there letters that you want to give? Are there people that you don't want? Is there a childhood grudge? Is there something that you need to say to someone before you die, when you are incapable of walking or whatever the case is? Do you need someone at your age? Do you want a doula? Do you want a priest? What religion are you? Is there something that we haven't spoken about that you want to speak about? So all these different conversations suddenly start popping up, but you can have them in a time and place that is conducive to a resolution to those questions, because it's all there and the person is compus mentis and I guess this purple file or whatever the folder is and, as you say, the resources everywhere, is a guardrail it's a guardrail, and so you're both correct operating within this guardrail and answering these questions.
Speaker 1:So so, before it gets too heavy and deep and you can, take a break, yeah, and you can step away and have a cup of tea, yeah.
Speaker 2:Go for a walk around the block, yeah, but you revisit it and you get it done because you love your parents and you want the best for them and you want to be the best version of yourself because that's how they raised you. So, so, as difficult as it is, and it if I, if I look back now, yes, it was difficult in the moment, but I'm so proud of myself for having completed it with them.
Speaker 1:But that's an interesting point that you raise. Um, you said you want to be the best version of yourself because that's how your parents raised you. So I wonder if we ever think about that, if we think about what we look like through our parents eyes, and are we being the best versions of ourselves? That's a great question.
Speaker 2:It's a question, perhaps for a For another podcast, because rightly so. I mean some people don't talk to their parents. I mean, you know, we're being very specific about the relationship that we've got, you know, with our parents.
Speaker 1:So yeah, are we the best versions of ourselves? Are we the best versions Like will? So, yeah, are we the best versions of ourselves? Are we the best versions like will Miss 14 ponder that question at some point in her life?
Speaker 2:sure Miss 14 went through a lot going, you know being there. I'm glad she was there.
Speaker 1:She turned into a little African which I love, like a, like a awesome, like a dorph.
Speaker 2:That's so cute, beautiful oh yeah, she was incredible filthy feet, I think. Sometimes I held her back a little bit just because I'm a parent.
Speaker 1:No because you're overprotective yeah she's my only one. Yeah, exactly, exactly, okay. So to sum up the piece of advice, let's just sum that up and put a circle around that.
Speaker 2:Is have the conversation sooner rather than later. Okay, that would be my advice.
Speaker 1:And that conversation includes handling whatever this purple folder is, in whatever manner or form you can find it, understanding what the financial circumstances are of the parent, just like you said in your previous podcast that you have a beginning of life doula or a midwife and you prep before you have a child.
Speaker 2:There's a lot of prep that goes before having a child. You need you prep before you have a child.
Speaker 1:There's a lot of prep that goes before having a child.
Speaker 2:You need to prep before your death. You need to understand that you've lived a life. Whether that's a good life, a bad life, a rich life, a poor life, whatever, it doesn't matter. But you have to prep for your death.
Speaker 1:I wonder why we don't. I wonder why we don't. I wonder what that says about us as a civilization. We're so hooked on feeling good and making ourselves feel better all the time that we can't handle the pain really.
Speaker 2:My take on it is that it's a cultural thing, because in some cultures it's spoken about and it's dealt with. You go through the seasons of life, you know the spring, summer, autumn, winter. I think in a lot of cultures it's not spoken about because we have no culture, so it's just assumed that it will take care and we kind of bumble along as we do. I don't want to be that anymore. I'm choosing a different path, hence putting things in place. Yes, I'm 50. And it's never too late to actually have these conversations, to do something about it.
Speaker 1:That's the beauty of it if this little trip had a title, like a chapter in your book, in your story, what would it be called? Two homes, two homes, okay, yes, because that was a big thing for you. You've. You've allowed your heart to accept the notion that you have both a home in Africa and a home here in New Zealand, which is actually quite a deep thought when you think about. Do you have a home, a home that you can always go to?
Speaker 2:So when we immigrated and we've mentioned this in the podcast before there was always only plan A. I said to you, there was plan A. I said to you, there was plan A, we were coming over. There was no plan B or C.
Speaker 2:When that happened, I put all the African-ness, the thoughts, the feelings, the sights and sounds into a vault, closed that vault and locked the vault. I didn't take the key out of the vault, I just locked it because I knew that there was a journey that I had to go on the vault. I just locked it because I knew that there was a journey that I had to go on. Now, having come back and having spent a month in South Africa and spent time with my folks and with some very dear friends and going to the Midlands and going to a music festival with Miss 14, that key unlocked the vault and the door opened and some of those memories and those feelings and those Africa vibes came out and I made peace with the fact that I have a home that I've built and love in New Zealand with you and Miss 14, but even more so that it was okay to acknowledge my, my country of birth, south.
Speaker 1:Africa. That's where your best mates are. They're my best mates, your tribe, but the soil, the air, just the vibe.
Speaker 2:Africa is a vibe. Yeah, 100% Africa is a vibe for me and the acknowledgement that I can actually give myself permission to go. Hey, it's okay to have two homes. Yeah, and even admit that to you. Yeah, that I've got two homes. Africa is in my heart, but New Zealand is my home, yeah, very much.
Speaker 2:I'll give you a perfect example of what happened when we were visiting some of our friends. As it always does, it lands up on sport, and very dear friends that we stayed with in the Midlands have got three kids, and their eldest son said to me right, south Africa, play New Zealand. What happens? And I took a moment and I said rugby wins.
Speaker 1:Oh my God. And nothing else happened. You're such a sage. Oh my God, rugby wins.
Speaker 2:Well, I can't make a decision.
Speaker 1:I love that I can't make a decision. You know what I mean. I think if there's more Kiwis in the room, I'd be go New Zealand. If there's more South Africans in the room, I'd be go South Africa, okay cool. I mean, it depends on the moment, it depends who the biggest oak in the room is.
Speaker 2:We could be steering a big project. Yeah, exactly, my point being that, and I just said, rugby wins. Rugby wins, because it's very difficult sometimes to watch those two teams play. Yeah and they go, you know yeah.
Speaker 1:So that's when I realized it's okay to have two, perfect Okay, I think. On that note, I'm quite keen to wrap this up Just in terms of summary prepare yourself for your parents' death, because that's coming and it's an inevitable thing, and don't, and don't be afraid of what needs to be done to prepare for that. You know what? Be afraid, feel those feelings and do it anyway, you know get scared, just flippin.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't know how else to say it, but it's going to have to happen at some stage and, and I would advise ourselves even to have these conversations with Miss 14, even now, yeah, I suppose, so that it doesn't become this taboo subject. Yeah, that it's like I am going to die. I'm not trying to make it morbid, it's just a reality. We're all walking each other home, as Ram Dassau rightly says. It's a fact. Home, as Ram Dassau rightly says, it just it's, it's a fact. And the conversation that we need to have as well about your death or my death, you know and and contemplate that and what that looks like. I'm not saying every day and be morbid about it, but it's a fact, yeah you know, exactly.
Speaker 2:Um, it's it's to is to normalize it. No, it's to normalize these conversations where you can have a conversation with someone, that it doesn't become this big thing at the end of your life, which it shouldn't be. It should be. It should be a celebration of your life, if anything, because the only people that actually are upset are the people that get left behind. Yeah, exactly yeah, those are the ones who are going to emote about you having passed. So, yeah, that would be my summation of this, and I'm not an expert. I'm going through this, I'm treading the path and I'll update as and when we need it. And thank you for the questions and to the folks out there, if there are anything, if there's anything specific that you want to know, get in contact if there's a subject that you want to talk about or well, that's well.
Speaker 1:That's why we visited this one again, because we've had such amazing feedback, and thank you for that, and and people that have popped up out of the blue yeah and, just you know, just just shared some of the experiences with us no, no, it's been amazing.
Speaker 2:I must just share this with you. We were at, uh, splashy fen 2025, which is a music festival in underberg was now being voted.
Speaker 1:You said it's one of the best festivals, family festivals, in the world, yeah, the world in south africa.
Speaker 2:oh right, that's be corrected on that. But I was. I was walking just through um the market and into the music tent and somebody popped up and said, hey, you're that guy from Bolton Inc Effect podcast. And I was like I'm in Africa, I didn't know, but he found me and listened to it and recognized me. Fantastic, the power of affecting one is worth doing these podcasts. It's worth doing this. So onwards and upwards, and thank you very much for your looking after the fort. I missed you. I missed you a lot. I missed you too.
Speaker 1:I missed me, I did. There was that one day. There was that one day.
Speaker 2:Thanks Pooch, thanks Louis. That's a wrap for today on the Bolton Inc Effect podcast. The world doesn't need more noise. It needs bold voices, real stories and people willing to show up. So if something here sparked an idea, made you rethink the rules or reminded you that you're not alone on this journey, don't keep it to yourself. Share it, talk about it. Better yet, take action, because at the end of of the day, it's not about waiting for permission. It's about showing up, doing the work and making something that matters. Thanks for being here now. Go build, create and keep pushing forward. We'll see you next time. Can I ask you the bolton?
