S2 Eps 5 Michael Carter: Building A Better Future

Sitting in traffic and feeling like nothing ever changes is a special kind of slow burn, so we went looking for someone who’s doing the opposite: getting his hands dirty and thinking long-term. Our guest Michael Carter is an architectural designer in Tauranga, a native bush restorer on weekends, and a 2026 candidate for The Opportunities Party. The thread that ties it all together is simple: build systems that make good choices easier, whether that’s in a forest, a city, or Parliament.

We start with something unexpectedly revealing: why festivals like Tomorrowland feel like stepping into a more positive world, and what that says about human behaviour and community. Then Michael takes us down his track into a largely unseen piece of native forest, where he’s trapped hundreds of pests and is aiming for predator-free in ten years. We talk biophilic design, mental health, and why regular time in nature can reset your week far better than another scroll on your phone.

From there we get into the policies and the politics, without the usual theatre. Michael explains Citizens’ Income and Land Value Tax, how they might work together, and why shifting incentives could help with poverty, cost of living pressure, housing affordability, and entrepreneurship in New Zealand. We also dig into Tauranga’s rapid growth: infrastructure, public transport, intensification, mixed-use neighbourhoods, and the mindset change required to get cars off the road. Finally, we explore Citizens’ Assemblies as a practical tool for tackling hard issues with evidence, education, and consensus, plus how becoming a dad sharpens the motivation behind all of it.

If you care about urban design, environmental restoration, pragmatic politics, and a future-focused Tauranga, this conversation will give you plenty to argue with and plenty to take seriously. 

https://www.opportunity.org.nz/candidate-michael-carter

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Disclaimer: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed on this podcast are solely those of the individual author(s) and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of Bolton Inc. 

Transcript

Welcome And Meet Michael Carter

SPEAKER_03 0:02

Hey there, I'm Louis. And I'm Bridget. Welcome to the Bolton Inc.

SPEAKER_01 0:07

Effect Podcast, where we are navigating new horizons. Each week we're pulling back the curtain on what it really takes to build something remarkable: a business, a life, and a legacy.

SPEAKER_03 0:16

So join us as we share honest conversations about relationship, entrepreneurship, video production, and the art of building a life together in a new land.

SPEAKER_01 0:25

Because sometimes the biggest risks lead to the greatest rewards. How can we help?

SPEAKER_03 0:31

Can I ask you that welcome back to another episode of the Bolton Ink Effect Podcast? Today I am very excited to have one of our local heroes here in Matua Torona with me. None other than Michael Carter. Michael, welcome to the show. Thank you very much for joining me. I think we're recording this on a Sunday, which is uh pretty awesome. So there's no rest for the wicked for you and me. Hey. Okay, so who is Michael Carter? Well, folks, Michael Carter is a very interesting human being in that he is an architect by trade. That's what he does for a living. But there's a lot more to him than meets the eye, and we'll get into that in a second. But Michael, again, thank you very much for your time. I've got one

Why Festivals Feel Like Freedom

SPEAKER_03 1:22

question for you to open this discussion. It's like you mentioned earlier when we were making a cup of coffee that you love festivals. I'm so curious about that. Tell me more about what you love about festivals and which one particularly.

SPEAKER_02 1:33

Yeah, so um my favorite festival was when Tomorrowland in 2023. That's um incredible. It was probably the most incredible experience of my life. And um, it's just the atmosphere and you're with your friends, and I think one of the main reasons I like about it is once when you're at a festival, you're kind of like your own little in your own little world, and you're sort of away from the outside world, you're not sure what's going on, and it's just all about positivity, living loving life, and that is why I love festivals.

SPEAKER_03 2:06

And tomorrow, where was Tomorrowland? Where was it held?

SPEAKER_02 2:09

I was in Belgium.

SPEAKER_03 2:10

In Belgium, yes. Okay, and how and just for context, for folks out there that might not have heard about Tomorrowland, what is Tomorrowland and and and what sort of size is it?

SPEAKER_02 2:19

Yeah, so it's the biggest festival in the world, and it's essentially like Disneyland on steroids. And it's just got amazing artists, and I remember the first mo because they always do a lot of um put a huge amount of emphasis on the stages. Right. And I just remember the first moment of walking um, because you walk down on over the hill, and you just see the stage for the first time, and it was just absolutely amazing, this ginormous stage and the atmosphere, and it was just incredible.

SPEAKER_03 2:51

I can relate to that story in terms of uh attending Africa Burn, which essentially is a festival in the middle of a desert, where these massive sculptures, art, art, art sculptures get made in the middle of the desert.

SPEAKER_02 3:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:07

And I was part of a film crew that filmed one of them, and we spent a month in the desert. Oh wow. And to what you're saying, you enter into another world, another paradigm where people are full of positivity. Yep, there's no money exchange. No, everything is transactional in terms of bartering. Oh wow. So you will go in the morning, you'll have your coffee, and then in the afternoon they'll come to you for a session of whatever they're at that is. So there's no there's no money exchange.

SPEAKER_02 3:38

Yeah. Wow.

SPEAKER_03 3:39

And it is a kind of alternate reality, yeah. Um, which which can be utopian.

SPEAKER_02 3:45

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 3:46

Um, and unfortunately, we have to return to reality sometimes. But I think what happened for me when I went to Africa Burn and we built this massive temple in the middle of the desert is that you when you leave there, you take that some of that essence and some of that learning into the real world.

Restoring A Hidden Native Forest

SPEAKER_03 4:03

Now, coming back to you, you're a local here in Matua Toronha. Michael, just briefly tell us, tell us what you do in terms of the work you do, and then I'm going to explain to the audience and I'm gonna unpack about what we're actually here to to talk about. So, so briefly, Michael, who are you and what do you do?

SPEAKER_02 4:24

Yeah, so uh by trade, I'm an architectural designer. Um and I also that's my main job, but I also uh restore a small forest in my spare time. Um, it's a bit of a passion project of mine. Okay. And also the opportunity total candidate.

SPEAKER_03 4:42

So that third one you kind of like let just like slip in there. You're you know, with a shirt that you're wearing, for the folks out there that you're not watching the video, Michael is wearing an opportunity uh t-shirt because he is the party candidate for the 2026 parliamentary election, which we will unpack in a short, short while. Tell me more about your passion project, and the reason I'm gonna ask is because it leads me into the question from your architectural design and what you can bring into the party candidacy. What do you mean, a passion project and restoration project? What is that about?

SPEAKER_02 5:15

Yeah, so it's funny, I've always had this idea that I've wanted to restore a piece of forest in New Zealand. And I would and I always just when I was younger, I was thinking oh, if I ever won the lotto, I'd I'd buy just this big piece of native forest and restore it. And luckily, I didn't win the lotto. But my wife, um but my wife's parents um own a property and they've got some native bush on it, and that backs on some other native bush. And I I am restoring that. And so I am trying to turn this piece of forest which no one really knows about because you can't even see it from the road, um, and trapping and removing pest plants, and I'd like to get it predator-free in 10 years.

SPEAKER_03 6:01

Okay, so that's the kind of length of time that you kind of yeah, that's kind of what I've wanted to do. So, and you're doing this by yourself, or is it with a group or is it a few years?

SPEAKER_02 6:09

No, I'm just doing it by myself, just um just yeah, just trapping in there, building it's completely inaccessible, and so I've had to build a path all the way down to the valley. Okay, and it's all it's but it's beautiful forest, like it hasn't been logged, so it's incredible.

SPEAKER_03 6:25

So why not so so you you you're restoring this piece of land, you're an architect by trade, you're into party politics, which we'll get into in a second. Why not just donate to an organization rather than um actually physically do it yourself?

SPEAKER_02 6:42

Um, I love it. Yeah, um, it's so rewarding. And I do donate as well to some elements, but I think this is a piece of forest that if I didn't do anything, nothing would ever get done on it.

SPEAKER_03 6:53

Right. And are you doing this by yourself? Have you got the support of your wife?

SPEAKER_02 6:56

Oh, yeah, she loves it. Yeah, she doesn't help you. Yeah, she doesn't uh well my dog comes down and helps me. But no, she comes down for a walk um with me, and and then, yeah, and also uh my parents are extremely um grateful and they love the idea of it as well.

SPEAKER_03 7:10

So, Michael, I'm surely that is so how often do you do this?

SPEAKER_02 7:14

Uh I go we go for dinner there every Sunday, and so we just I just spend a few hours down the track um every Sunday. And we live there for a little bit.

SPEAKER_03 7:23

Okay, so this is gonna sound slightly weird, but what does that give you in terms of your day-to-day working in an office environment with other people designing commercial you know, for commercial properties and commercial uh buildings and stuff like that to actually get your hands dirty on the land? Does that what does that do for you? Does it give you this? I don't want to put words in your mouth, but does it give you space, does it give you time to think, to decompress? What does it do for you knowing that you are actually working with a fan or with act with the land itself?

SPEAKER_02 7:54

Yeah, so I think one of the key things is that um connecting with nature is just so important for our health. And especially in sort of relating back to architecture as well, um biophilic design is there is a huge amount of um it massively benefits you and it especially in sort of health-wise, that if you're connecting with nature, your health benefits.

SPEAKER_03 8:14

Okay, so speak specip specifically with you, how have you found that it's affected you making you better at work or worse at work? What has it done for you?

SPEAKER_02 8:22

Yeah, so um it basically is kind of like a when I'm in the bush, I can sort of detox a little bit away, and it just gives me time to think and I can refresh. And then so every so I do that on a Sunday, and every Monday I come back and I'm in the office, and I feel so much more positive, and it just it's it's fantastic.

SPEAKER_03 8:45

I would assume that the pace at which you do things, you you can only do as much as you can on the land. Yeah, so things take time. Yep. So you kind of realize the trajectory of like how long this is actually gonna take you in terms of I mean, how big is a piece of land?

SPEAKER_02 8:58

Uh it's about 35 hectare piece of forest.

SPEAKER_03 9:00

So it's a fair, it's a fair size for you to be able to remove the pest to get rid of all the nasties and stuff like that. So it does give you perspective.

SPEAKER_02 9:07

Yep. Yep. It does. And I think as well, it's I'm I'm putting my money where my mouth is. And so I'm all about restoring our environment. And so I'm not just um saying, oh, we have to do something. I'm actively doing it.

SPEAKER_03 9:21

I love that. I really I really love that. So your hands are getting dirty, but you can actually speak of it because you're doing it. Okay.

Why He Joined The Opportunity Party

SPEAKER_03 9:27

Just moving on, just a little bit sideways now with the opportunity party. Can you tell the the folks out there that that that don't know about it who is opportunity party and what is it about?

SPEAKER_02 9:40

Yeah, so opportunity party is I've been a supporter of them for a wee while. And it's a party that is just about getting the job done. Getting the job done, okay. Um and there is so much, I mean, I kind of like use the analogy where um I'm sick of politics, and so that's why I got involved. Because I'm sick of what's happening. And um, and I've not been in any way aspire to be a politician or anything like that.

SPEAKER_03 10:07

But because that was that was my next question. It's like, okay, why are you carrying on that? It's like, I mean, you you don't strike me as the kind of person who wants to be a politician. So, so sick of what's going on. So please, what does that what does that mean for you? Like, yeah, like how does that get you to be a party candidate?

SPEAKER_02 10:27

Yeah, well, so I think so my values really align with the opportunities' values. And I know that I'm doing this because when I I always want to leave the world in a better place when I go. That's probably one of the main reasons um and that I'm doing this, is because the future of this country is it, I'm not that happy with where it's going. And I think that if I don't do this and I can get and the values of opportunity into government is going to make the future of this country so much better for everyone.

SPEAKER_03 11:02

Okay, I don't know much about politics because I'm not particularly interested in it for various reasons because I have a bit of apathy towards it because I have to back myself. But to your point about leaving this world a better place than when you you were brought into it, what is your current read on the government, in your own words, of of where it where it is and how it's let you down?

SPEAKER_02 11:27

Yeah, I just think it's just sort of the lack of um the future focus. And for younger people, exactly like me, um, and there's this real alarming stat that for every one person that's on the superannuation, there's going to be now three taxpayers for that person, and then in the future there's going to be two. And so, where does that leave like the future of this country where we're having to pay so much, the cost of living? And so, how can we actually have a country where that can support young people?

SPEAKER_03 11:59

Okay, so you so so your day job is literally designing buildings for commercial clients, okay? So, often

Citizens’ Income And Land Value Tax

SPEAKER_03 12:05

kinds of buildings that sit on high value land. Do you ever feel that there's a tension between that work and then advocating for like a land value tax that would fundamentally restructure how the land is priced? And the reason I'm asking that question is because one of the policies or one of the guiding principles for the Opportunity Party is to bring in some sort of universal basic income to help with the cost of living. Can we explore that and can you explain what that actually means?

SPEAKER_02 12:36

So this is an income, basically is a regular payment to everyone. Everyone. Everyone gets it.

SPEAKER_03 12:42

In New Zealand. Everyone gets it. No matter whether across the board.

SPEAKER_02 12:45

No, and so it replaces a lot of what we have now of super and replaces the um benefit, and so everyone gets it, and it removes a whole level of administration out of it. And so um what it does is overall it will lift people massively out of um what we have now, poverty. And um, and there's more and more studies coming out about it, and that what it does is it actually gives people a sense of security, and so that people are more likely to go in and take, uh like start their own businesses up. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 13:19

So that that so how okay, so just for my sake, so land value tax, so is that where the money will come from? Yes. So just for my sake, what does that actually mean? Is that a that's a tax on the land that gets pulled that will allow for this. What do we call it? Do you mean a citizen's income?

SPEAKER_02 13:41

Yeah, so the citizens' income and L VT have to work together. And so the L VT has a flat rate on um land, so there's a different rate for rural and there's a different rate for urban. And so, for example, if you a single, if you're a family with a house, you're about the kind of the same with the citizens' income and land value tax. If you don't own a house, you're better off. And if you own multiple houses, that you're going to be paying more tax. And so the whole idea of it is that currently we're just investing in the housing market and it's actually not benefiting the country. And so it's moving away from having that as um look at and looking at actually building businesses, innovation, and actually growing the country rather than just relying on houses.

SPEAKER_03 14:26

What what does a typical Saturday morning or dinner with your in-laws look like out there? And then what made you decide to do it on your own land rather than like I asked earlier, just to donate to an organization?

SPEAKER_02 14:39

Yeah, so um every Sunday we we um so we've just finished doing a bit of a reno at a house. And so freed up a bit more time now, which is good. And so on a Sunday morning we'll get up, we'll take the dog for a walk, we'll go um do something nice together with me and my wife, and and then we'll um head up to the farm and I'll go down my track for about two hours and by yourself. Yeah, just by myself with the dog. Um, and I absolutely love it. I like I tell people that it's kind of like um, it's like fishing. So you set the trap and you set the and then it's that same analogy. Oh, you you know, you've caught something, and oh, and you can kind of see that you're you're you're actually making a difference.

SPEAKER_03 15:24

Um how long have you been doing it now?

SPEAKER_02 15:26

Uh oh one year, eight months. Okay, have you noticed any changes? Any slightly slowly. Slowly. Slowly changed. I mean, I've caught over 600 pests in this tunnel. It's it's and it's been a real eye-opener about the state of our for our stock forests that have not had any pest control in it. Because and and so, and there's just massive amount of docker Docker's massively underfunded, and there's but there is such amazing work going on that people are doing, but it's just we just have to keep doing it. We we just have to, as a country, as part of our identity, our environment is our identity.

SPEAKER_03 16:04

How much of your what's the word I'm looking for? You know, you mentioned I've asked you two very different questions now about you know LBT and and the citizens' income and your your the natural land. How much of this is I want to use the word client education in terms of actually educating the public out there, first of all, to get them less apathetic and motivate them to actually get something done. How much of that is in your control or can you advocate for?

SPEAKER_02 16:36

Um, I think as New Zealanders at Kiwis, um we need to fall in love with nature again. And it's also about educating people the benefits of that and looking at especially biodiversity. And I saw this absolutely alarming stat the other day that if we don't do anything, it's gonna cost the future generations $270 billion. Now, all of this, it's not gonna be the people who are in power at the moment. It's gonna be my generation and my kids' generation that are gonna do this, and it's gonna cost more and more and more and more.

SPEAKER_03 17:12

And so if we don't do anything, the burden's just gonna be passed on to future generations and it just feels like you've got such a massive, we have got such a massive task ahead of us because it's it's it's a paradigm shift. Yeah. It's a massive rethinking, not a reinventing of the wheel, but just the wheel needs to go in the other direction, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_02 17:32

It's about valuing nature and looking at um how we can use that as a way to still still we can still have development in this country, but use it as a tool to have good development and to really look after what we have. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 17:49

All

Tauranga Growth And Infrastructure Choices

SPEAKER_03 17:50

right, all right. So Tohonga is one of New Zealand's fastest growing cities, and it's been governed by commissioners rather than elected representatives for years.

SPEAKER_02 17:59

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 18:00

So as someone who designs buildings and wants and and wants to represent in Parliament, what does Tohunga get wrong about its own growth?

SPEAKER_02 18:12

Interesting. Um so infrastructure is a massive issue here, connectivity to the city. And I so I'm from Christchurch and I love the Christchurch example where there was the earthquake and it completely flattened the city. So I was there for all of that. You were? Yeah, I was my last year of school, it was the year of the earthquake.

SPEAKER_03 18:33

Oh my lord. Okay, so it's still traumatic though.

SPEAKER_02 18:36

Yeah, yeah, but what it was, and it was a completely broken city and it was completely changed, and started from scratch. And so, um, and now you look at Kreischirch, and it's just incredible. The stadium opened up last weekend, and you've got this revitalized city centre. And so I think that's something that Todonga can have. It can happen to Todonga at the moment. We're having these buildings which are the libraries opening up, and that's gonna be a catalyst for all other things, and actually bringing sorting out connectivity, um, bringing people into the city and to have it grow and to have it grow. Like I think it'll be fantastic. So we're on the right path with trajectory. Yeah, sometimes you've got to spend a bit of money to make the investment, and that's exactly what's happening now, is that you've you've got these anchor projects essentially, right? Which are gonna be the library and they will open up and that'll spur on more, and then the city will be revitalized.

SPEAKER_03 19:31

All right, yeah. Moving on, the other question that we're going to ask is the opportunity party has never made it into parliament, despite nearly a decade of trying. So, what's your honest read on why and what makes what you think makes a difference for 2026? How is that generally different rather than just being optimistic?

SPEAKER_02 19:50

So I think for a start, we've got CU-LAI is doing a fantastic job as a leader.

SPEAKER_03 19:54

Cule being.

SPEAKER_02 19:54

Cou-le is the leader. Kule is the current leader of Opportunity Right. She's doing a fantastic job. And there's, I think there's a real momentum around where people, again, sick of the left and right and just want to get the job done with pragmatic, evidence-based policies. And that, and that's exactly why I'm here. Um, because I want to see that for this country, and that's fire. I think a lot of people are now looking at opportunity going, yes, we agree with that as well. We want that.

SPEAKER_03 20:25

I love that because it for the first time, what you've what you've just said to me, it feels like you're not interested in politics, but at the same time, you know that you can affect change. And there's been a um a vehicle now through the opportunity party, and it could be named anything, but it's it's like where you can actually do something. Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_02 20:42

So yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_03 20:43

I love that. Okay,

Lessons From An Architecture Career

SPEAKER_03 20:44

cool. So you've worked at multiple large architectural firms. You're an associate principal at the moment at Wingates. You've worked at Jazmax, you've worked at Architectus, Black Box. Each of those companies or those organizations have a distinct culture. Yeah. Okay. So what did you learn at a place that you had to consciously leave behind when you had to move on?

SPEAKER_02 21:09

Does that make sense? Yes. So Architect is um a very good architecture company. They do some amazing work. Um and the the culture there is about creating good architecture. And I learned it was, it was my first three years, it was hard. It was, it was, oh, it was this, but I learned so much from it, and that's something that I can like good work ethic, all about the design process, and how you can create good architecture. And that's what I've sort of taken and moved to my new company where I've sort of learnt all of those kind of good processes.

unknown 21:48

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 21:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 21:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:50

All right. So culture is obviously an important part of the makeup of any organization that you work with, and you obviously love what you do now. So, what what have you learned?

SPEAKER_02 22:00

about yourself Michael of the last number of years since you've got your degree what do you reckon is the big been the biggest lesson that you've learned through your architectural career yeah I think I've learned a few um please share we've got time I'd love to know yeah yeah yeah yeah so I think making sure that um when you put your when I put my mind to something and I work hard um it I can get the results um so the amount of and it's I mean architecture always there's so much learning in there there's different components and there's there's you've got concept design and all the way to um to on-site work and so to um learn each stage and to also take your time and so what's your biggest takeaway from from your career in in your architectural career at the moment yeah so uh I'd always wanted to do a building in my home city Christchurch and last year I completed one um right on Heaton Street and it's I just was down in Christchurch on Thursday showing the jury around for an NZA award so it's been shortlisted for that. Congratulations um and so that's uh one of the key things I'd always wanted to do and was do a building in my home city and so I've done that and so and it I'm I'm pretty happy with it and it's had a lot of positive results from it positive feedback and so yeah that's quite rewarding.

SPEAKER_03 23:26

I love that Mrs.

SPEAKER_02 23:27

give me the where people can actually have a look at that and find it on the yeah so it's it's 122 Heaton Street okay yeah and it was a it was a really had a lot of constraints in the building uh so it was in a it had a beautiful old character home on the site and that was taken away and then it was also it's also in a heritage zone and plus you had it's on terrible land um it was seismic issues because of the um and so but the end result we have a really good process with the council and the end result is and especially with the neighbours as well making sure that the neighbors are all happy and it's everyone it's had a really good positive feedback from it.

SPEAKER_03 24:11

So you couldn't have done this five years ago so all so this is this this kudos and speaks to your um you know the lessons that you've learned in the previous companies and and and you've got the result now. Yeah

Public Transport Mindset And Making It Free

SPEAKER_03 24:24

okay yeah cool all right so architecture's core job is imagining places that don't exist yet and you just mentioned you know the one in Christchurch do you bring that same disposition to politics so if so what does Touronga look like in the next 10, 20 30 years if we go if we get it right.

SPEAKER_02 24:46

So I'd love to see a city that's revitalized with and that we're not caught up in this idea that we have to jump in a car and go somewhere stuck down Hewlett's road in traffic that there's we can just go anywhere we want we're not stuck in traffic there's fantastic public transport into the city um that we've got we can there's awesome bars and restaurants um do you think that's possible? Absolutely with a tri you know and and you can jump on a train and take the train to Auckland you could take the train from um Papamoas what's your timeline on that do you reckon? Well look I think that it needs to happen soon. Yeah I think it needs to happen soon and we need to take the and I think the prime example is this fuel crisis that we've got. Use it as an opportunity let's use it as an opportunity to kind of so that we don't just have to jump in a car. We can jump on a train we can jump on a bus and go somewhere we don't have to be stuck in traffic what has what what what fundamentally has to change to make that happen though? I think as a mindset it's a mindset is the biggest thing is a mindset. And and having this mindset that actually we can be we don't have to be stuck in traffic driving to work. We can look at alternatives and that is the and that is what I think nationally that needs to happen as well is that the first instinct should not be let's jump in a car and drive somewhere it's how do you get I mean how do you affect that change though Michael because I mean I hear you I'm I'm I hear what you're saying but for so long kiwis are kind of like back then themselves and like oh I want to be able to go where I want to go and how when I want to when I want to go and to your point about the fuel crisis like it should fundamentally open up a switch but I suppose it has to come from multiple levels of saying there is another way but we have to drive it and you need to come on board with us.

SPEAKER_03 26:45

Yeah you know so that you do have a bus network or a a or a rail network that first of all is um that works is on time and that you trust yeah and that trust has to be worked on and instilled because without that nothing's gonna ever ever change. No so so yeah I hope it does work but what do you reckon is the the the single most effective way to do that?

SPEAKER_02 27:09

So let's make it free. Wow that's a that's a two okay that's that's at the moment removing all the barriers and to get it's like so I I bike to work um I was driving and then I bought a bike and I bike to work. And it's like the same mindset of going to the gym for the first time. The first time is really it's hard and it's oh it could be it's a great analogy. Yeah and so you know I could be driving my car right now or I could be at home um but then I I take my bike for the first time and I do it and then I do it again. And then slowly you become that oh actually I I prefer biking to work because I'm I'm not stuck in traffic anymore. It's nice outside and so you need to have that initial push and that initial kind of um to make it a habit and to form to to form a um a different mindset.

SPEAKER_03 28:04

Yeah how do you talk how do you and this is something I've asked myself I mean I'm slight slightly older than you but how do you get that message across to and this is not an ages thing but an older generation to actually get that mindset change and you mentioned earlier you know to affect change to make it free which I I love that because people go okay cool you know and then eventually things will cost and you can bring in that bring in that cost to to to fund it. But how would you explain that to your father in law or to your father saying hey come on give it a go it's tricky.

SPEAKER_02 28:38

It is tricky it is tricky because it's it's um it's very black and white yeah um I think it's almost got to say well look it's it's almost kind of like well you're sitting in traffic and you're moaning about traffic and then stop moaning about it. Stop moaning about it do something about it do something about it. You've got to be that blunt eh you you do because we can't just I mean you can just keep building more and more and more roads but you look at what happened overseas in sort of the 70s and 80s in America and you just had these those huge highways which just built all through the downtown of these cities and it didn't really help anything. They it just allowed more and more cars on the roads cities suffered from it and now it's like well the answer is super black and white is get cars off the roads.

SPEAKER_03 29:29

Michael

Intensification And Building Better Neighbourhoods

SPEAKER_03 29:30

what's something that you believed about good urban design five years ago that you've since revised and what changed your mind? So you've been an architect for a while now and you've got into your groove and the way that you do things but looking back is there anything that you would have revised or would revise going forward I think intensification is a real What is intensification?

SPEAKER_02 29:56

Intensification is that we are intensifying um so increasing the density of housing in cities to prevent urban sprawl okay all right um so that's changed the way you design it's probably something that is more of an issue now where um we can't especially in cities like Auckland and Totterung as well if we keep just sprawling and having that quarter acre dream with the big backyard um so is that dream gone it's completely gone.

SPEAKER_03 30:30

Is that dream like done?

SPEAKER_02 30:32

Yep we as a country we cannot afford to keep sprawling. Okay so make so so so try convince me why I should get into like like you say you you see these plots of land now where there used to be one house and it had the yard and now you're getting six units per un yeah but the the longevity of that I mean it it's it's a tricky one isn't it it is it's it's a classic oh I don't want to I don't want to have that I want to have my nice section but the reality is if if we keep sprawling and traffic is only going to get worse because we still love our cars and we have to keep building it's essentially we we have to keep doing it because what that does it enables as the denser populations within the city can therefore help with the public transport because then we've got people within the cities that can then more um connect two different areas in the city and so it's a whole chicken and egg thing. But the more people the more then we can spend on less on roads more on public transport to get the innocent and I mean I think the one thing that we're lacking in New Zealand is what they in Europe they do so well is that they have smaller neighborhoods. So in New Zealand we've got our supermarkets which are big supermarkets and you're forced to drive um you've got a pub which is kind of uh in the city but these little mini neighborhoods in Europe which which are self-sufficient. Yeah and so like I think in Martour we do have we've got the Martour which is sort of a little bit like that we've got the tiny tiny scale yeah in a suburban pub but it would be fantastic to see actually with this bringing in the urban um intensification which could then trigger smaller drive economic growth. Yeah and and have we could have a a like mixed use I think is so important. So you could you could have smaller supermarkets and then you could have um people can then walk to it and then it's so interesting because it's a study in human nature and I can't remember where I read this or I heard about it but people eventually that that that live in a you know suburban area only they they have two or three places that they go to because they trust them and that's what that that's their route.

SPEAKER_03 32:44

So they'll go to their favorite coffee shop they'll go to their favorite restaurant they'll go to the supermarket and then don't necessarily need to travel outside of that area to go somewhere else they will if they have to yeah but that's kind of where they're that they're at but we need to make that happen and it becomes a numbers game I think in New Zealand correct me if I'm wrong it's a numbers game we just we've had you know there's only five and a half million of us there's probably more now most of that is in Auckland Wellington. Tonong is quite small but the opportunity is there is a micro climate or microcosm of what is possible through intensification through urban design and through making public transport and infrastructure work. Yeah yeah yeah but we've got to get every everybody on board and it'll take time but it will eventually get there.

Citizens’ Assemblies For Tough Decisions

SPEAKER_03 33:32

Okay all right let's go back to citizens' assemblies tell me about citizens assemblies and what that actually is for the opportunity party and what does it mean?

SPEAKER_02 33:41

Yeah so the Citizens Assembly is basically um you're getting a group of citizens educating them and it's about 120 people and sort of pick them and they're basically a mini representation of New Zealand. So you have so you have people that everyone can kind of um apply to do this and then a few more are selected from that and then so it's across the board. It is it's a complete you want to have a it's about 120 people and it represents the whole of New Zealand.

SPEAKER_03 34:12

The experts write down to the layman person whatever the case is talking about a specific subject discussing debating and coming up with a consensus.

SPEAKER_02 34:21

Yep. And so you can also so those people I think the key one is that these people are educated on the issue. So they have experts that come in and talk to them. People can submit how their um so it's not just yes you've got the people in the room but anyone in the whole of New Zealand is welcome to submit what their um opinions are or they have evidence and so you're listening to a whole range of people and that can then be used as a way to um tackle the big issues that sometimes politicians don't want to touch.

SPEAKER_03 34:53

Which are often discussed behind closed doors.

SPEAKER_02 34:55

Yeah and and it's and um with a referendum you it's quite a simple question and um you you're you're just kind of you don't really understand you're not that educated on it. It's just a yes or no. But with a Citizens Assembly all of these people are educated and then can then and especially with the opportunities policies is that um the what is discussed can then go and be debated in Parliament.

SPEAKER_03 35:21

Yep line by line and then but it's based on a consensus across the board. It's not just someone one person's opinion.

SPEAKER_02 35:28

And there was one example in Ireland um that did it and so they debated I can't remember exactly what the issue was. I think it was abortion. Yeah it could have been and 66% of the the citizens assembly voted to change the the laws around that and then it went to based on that discussion based on that discussion then it went to parliament and then there was a referendum on it and then it was around the 66% mark in the country agreed to change the laws. So it was actually a true representation of of the how the country was feeling yeah amazing and so that that to me if you can get if you can get it across the board I it it yeah it really kind of helps so I think it's a fantastic policy.

SPEAKER_03 36:16

It goes back for me just listening to you it's also it's also about education of the client of like this there's got to be another way yeah we've been doing this for so long this is where change has to happen. Yeah okay so most people run for parliament have have have spent their their life being political for lack of a better word you've spent your career being spatial yeah so you know you think in buildings you think in landscapes flows of people has that made you better or worse at reading political situations?

SPEAKER_02 36:45

I think it's made me more gives it's given me a more holistic overview and so um I always like to refer it um when I was studying architecture it's all about looking at the pro solving a problem and looking at it in a holistic way. And so looking at the social elements the environmental elements and the economic impacts and creating a built intervention that sorts all those and um works with all of those different elements. And so that's how I like to look at things is that you're not just looking at one element if you make something yes it can benefit the economy but it's also got to look at the environmental and social. And so that's that's why I think that um I often think that you know a country should be a tripod that you can't have the economic more important than the environmental or the social the environmental can't be more important than the other two and so it's all got to be balanced and that's what um my sort of thinking and my study um has taught me so succinctly put I love that thank you very much for

Fatherhood And Leaving Things Better

SPEAKER_02 37:56

that now you've got a little one on the way yes I do how does that how does that affect you and and and and what are you looking forward to about becoming a dad? Yeah I'm really excited about being a dad um so having a little boy um congratulations and um I just can't wait to we're talking about this the other day um when we go to the farm we get some gum boots for him and he can we can go down the track we can go see all the farm animals um I'm really we're really excited to to to have a little little boy and and I think that's sort of in a way justifying why I'm doing this because it means now that that the future that I want to see my son to have is is a future with opportunity policies and opportunity in government that benefits that is not a detriment to the future of him leaving but it's actually looking at a positive future.

SPEAKER_03 38:57

Michael I absolutely love that and thank you for opening up and giving me your giving me your time and I really look forward to hearing you and seeing you in the public eye and I hope this podcast allows people to get under the surface and just find out a little bit more about who

Closing Thoughts And Share The Show

SPEAKER_03 39:15

you are. So thank you very much for your time Michael awesome thank you very much it's been it's been great and folks out there thank you very much for your time please pass us on share it if there's anything that you want to ask Michael let us know in the comments and I'll get the questions to him and thanks for listening and just remember to be kind to yourself and a little bit kind to those who love you. Cheers that's a wrap for today on the Bolton Inc Effect Podcast the world doesn't need more noise it needs bold voices real stories and people willing to show up. So if something here sparked an idea made you rethink the rules or reminded you that you're not alone on this journey don't keep it to yourself. Share it. Talk about it better yet take action because at the end of the day it's not about waiting for permission it's about showing up doing the work and making something that matters. Thanks for being here now go build, create and keep pushing forward. We'll see you next time