S2 Eps 9 Humility, Kindness, Love

We sit down with AJ to unpack what sits underneath identity, roles, and labels, and why unlearning division can make us feel more present and more free. We explore HKL, vibration, meditation, forgiveness, and service as real-world practices for living with humility, kindness, and love. 

www.hkl.org

• AJ’s path through community building in Aotearoa New Zealand and Australia 
• Why identity can be useful while still not being “who we are” 
• The stage and costume metaphor for roles like parent, partner, worker 
• Lotus-like detachment: being in the world without being owned by it 
• Vibration, emotion, and why sound and humming can shift our state 
• Meditation as a repeatable tool for aligning with peace 
• HKL as a movement beyond religion, borders, and group identity 
• Why suffering feels more visible now and why action matters 
• Grief, pain, forgiveness, and the practice of living in the present 
• Sikh as “student” or “seeker”, and service as a way of life 
• Equality, shared food, and community as daily spiritual practice 
• Teaching children silence, service, and humility as a foundation for wellbeing 

Please sign up and experience those practices for a week, for two weeks, and feel the change, feel the peace, feel the transformation. 

If you enjoyed this podcast, please like it, share it, leave a review on Spotify, on Apple Podcasts, or just give me a thumbs up or get in touch with me. 

Transcript

Welcome And What HKL Means

Speaker 0:05

Hello folks, and welcome to the Bolton Inc Effect Podcast. Where I'm your host, Louis Bolton, and today we've got a show that is slightly different, hosted by Bridge, who spoke to a gentleman who we'll call AJ, who is a Sikh and also a member of the HKL movement. Humility, kindness, and love. You can find out all about that organization at hkl.org. It's a fascinating conversation about what it means to be human and how to show up as better versions of ourselves. Bridge hosted this podcast with AJ as a gateway into finding out a little bit more about the movement, a little bit more about AJ, and also how we are moving into a world where the crack is opening and people are being more receptive to more information about what it means to be human. Without further ado, please enjoy this wide-ranging, fascinating conversation between Bridget and AJ.

AJ’s Journey In Aotearoa

Speaker 2 1:16

The Bolton Inc Effect .

Speaker 1 1:18

So I've been in New Zealand um since 2015. Yeah. And um I moved to Papamoa in 2020 too. But we built the temple and the language school in 2019 in Papamoa for this community. And ever, and even before that, I've always been part of the community doing things for you know people, everyone. Um and then in 2024, I I was lucky to be blessed with the opportunity to go and build and help with the laying foundations for the first primary school for the Sikh community in Australia. And and we did that. And then along the years, through the teachings, practices, we've adapted, evolved, learned, and come to this point where it's not about communities, it's not about country, it's not about one group of people, it's about the whole humanity as one. It's one family, one world, under the same sky, on the same earth. And it's been a ladder, it's been steps to come to this point. And where where I am today, I do see and realize that those were those were learning curves, and those were pivots that taught that taught certain aspects of who a person is today. But to come to this point where it is all about you and me, it is all about everyone together, uh, it transcends above communities, groups, color, race, background. It's it's humans, human race, and it's about the whole of humanity as one. You know. And I bel and I pray and I believe that the next step is the whole nature as one. Plants. 100% fire, yes, sky, yes. There's no diff like right now, it's learning to learning to unlearn everything we've learned through the world, so we don't see that division. But and but seeing the whole humanity as one and that we're the the brothers and sisters of the same supreme, divine, you may call it, being power, nature. And then the step further that I think is and would be is looking at the whole of the creation as one, and that's all the animals, all the plants, flora and fauna. Because at the because at the bottom, we're we're one species, and there's millions of other species like us, but we're all same.

Speaker 4 4:22

Yeah.

Speaker 1 4:22

You know, that's the next step. We're all life forms.

Speaker 3 4:25

Yeah. Yeah.

Unlearning Labels And Identity

Speaker 3 4:26

So when you talk about unlearning, I think that that's a key aspect of this because I I know that I'm a white woman who comes from South Africa. I identify myself with being um an animal lover, a wife, a mother. I have these skills as a worker. But I think the further I go on this journey, I realize that those are the things that I've chosen to define me. But below all of that, I'm just this vibration. Exactly. Yeah. I'm I am just um and and sometimes when I go to sleep at night, I try for that to be my last thought. Like, what does it feel like to feel outside of the skin and the bed that I lie in and the room that I'm in? What does it feel like to be part of that um that whole quantum field? Like, like, could I imagine myself just dissolving into it and tapping into something else so that I don't identify with any of the physicalities anymore, the jewelry I wear and the clothes that I try to look nice in? Because none of that really matters in the higher realm of things, but on a day-to-day plane, it all matters very much. Like if I arrived at work in bare feet um with unwashed hair, I I would create an impression.

Speaker 1 5:48

Yes.

Speaker 3 5:49

So so we have, as humans, we play this fine game with life where in order to fit in and to have a job and to be part of um the culture that we're in, there have to be some things that define me. But the game is to make that not be so meaningful, perhaps.

Speaker 1 6:11

Yes. You know, you've used certain words which are so um I would say uh important to understand this. You use the word game, yes, you use the word we play, and you use the word um impression, right?

Life As A Stage Roleplay

Speaker 1 6:32

If we think of this world as a stage, it is a stage where a drama is being played, an act is being played, and then we come in into this stage to play that character. Because we chose to, we chose to from the past lives, or or it was given to us due to what we did, what we accumulated. Yes, you can say that, yeah. But in that act, as Bridget, you've got so many characters you're playing. Yeah. Of character of the wife, character of a mother, character of a you know, podcast person, exactly, um, character of a white woman from Africa, but it's all characters, right? And what do characters have? They have costumes, characters have dialogues, they have a certain way of acting. You won't act the same way with me as you would with your children. No, you wouldn't act the same way with your children as you would with your husband or or at your workplace. So these um traits, these actions, they attribute to the character you're playing, not to who you are. It's almost like an aractor going into that character to play it, right? And yes, you're 100% right. It's about not making these meaningful. It's the analogy is it's being like a lotus, which stays above the water. No matter how dirty the water is, it is in the water, but above it. And if you put water on the lotus, its leaves or the it just drops off, it doesn't let, it doesn't get wet.

Speaker 3 8:19

That's a lovely analogy.

Speaker 1 8:21

So it's it's about being in the world, doing all this, but being detached from it. Being true, being grounded and being connected to your true self, which is not all this, which is something else within within this body. Because you never say this is Bridget, you say, This is my hand, my legs, yes, my body. Yes. I wear the clothes on my body. That means this is I am not my body. If I was my body, I would call this Bridget, but this is my hand. So the so the thing that's in there, calling this hand its hand, is is something else. Yes, that's a really yes, that's a really interesting Right? Yes. And then so if I so if we you know if we explore this more and if we ask, who are you? You would say Bridget. But that was just a word given to you by people around you to understand. By your parents. You call you. Yeah. Because they kept calling you Bridget, Bridget, Bridget so many times, you started responding to it and you attached yourself to that word. But that's not you. You were not born with it.

Speaker 3 9:38

Indeed.

Speaker 1 9:39

Right? Being a white woman, if we go scientifically, it doesn't exist. It's it's just chemicals in the body, in the skin, due to something DNA, due to um weather impacts, millions of years of evolution, this and that. It's just just that. From Africa, that's chance. You were born in that country. And you identify because but what defines a country? It's part of Earth. Part of Earth. The name can the name South Africa was also given by a group of people. That's right. It's not natural, it hasn't come through nature.

Speaker 3 10:21

That's right. All of our borders have been created by something, by some power, corruption, what's it? Exactly.

Speaker 1 10:28

Part of one earth. Where does Africa stop being Africa? 100%. Yeah.

Speaker 3 10:34

It connects, everything is connected within its and you think about the winds that blow and and and you get those Sahara winds that go all across the world. Exactly. You get the the the sea that splashes all over, you get the the scores, the water, the sky. It's it's all part of that global unity.

Speaker 1 10:50

Yes. So so we can so it's it's you see, it's so easy to see that you we can break these barriers. Okay, no, I I am not a white woman, it's just the color of my body. I am not from South Africa because that's what I've learned from the world that this is South Africa, this is where I'm from. We're both sitting in New Zealand right now. I come from India, you came from South Africa, we are in New Zealand right now. But if we go deep within and think about it, is it really different? Yeah. No, we're breathing, we're eating, we're walking, same things. You know, nothing has changed. The things have changed are geographical, and that's natural. Yes. That's because of geography. The food we eat, cleaner sky, cleaner water. That's just geography. Right? So now if I ask you, okay, then who you are, you'll say professionally, I am this, this, this, but that's something you've learned along the journey.

Speaker 3 11:50

That's right. Once again, that's a label to identify. Right?

Speaker 1 11:53

You've you and me, we've we've done jobs to feed our stomach. That's all a job is. Even if I'm an operations manager or a CEO or a professor or a teacher, there's certain things that add to it, but at the bottom of it, it is to feed our stomachs, to make a living, to live a life. And then we attach ourselves to it.

Speaker 3 12:17

It is not that. And then it becomes our identity, and then we have to protect it. Exactly.

Speaker 1 12:21

And then the next question: who you are, who are you? Yeah, who are you? And that that is this journey. It's understanding who I am. Who am I?

Speaker 3 12:32

I think that's such a valid, that's such a valid point to launch further into this conversation because I it I don't know if it's an age thing, if it's a maturity thing, if it's a I've if it's an exposure to things, but you start to think that your only job on earth is to know who you are. Know yourself. Yes. Like Socrates said. Yes. Do your job on earth, which is to know who you are. Or and and and what that means is you're not the narrative that was taught to you by your school, your child, your parents, your community. You are this energetic being that can express so much more, share so much more, and be part of so much more. Yes. If we allow all of those things that we identify with to be completely meaningless.

Speaker 1 13:16

Exactly. Yeah. And you know, something you said before about vibrations.

Vibration Emotions And The Divine

Speaker 1 13:21

Um this was some this this is what's being discussed with um in its HKL discussions and that podcast I sent you the other day. Yes. Uh, yesterday, um, it was talked about vibration, that there's vibrations all around us, yeah, there's vibrations inside us. And vibrations vary with emotions, with things, different things have different vibrations.

Speaker 3 13:45

Love has a very high vibration, as does joy and forgiveness, whereas anger is a is a thick and it's a very low vibration, and those vibrations also have color.

Speaker 1 13:54

Exactly.

Speaker 3 13:55

Yeah.

Speaker 1 13:55

So, and there is a vibration out there in the universe, the whole of creation, which the divine is vibrating at. Or you could say the power of the nature or natural vibration, creation, creator, you may call it by any name, it is vibrating at a certain certain vibration. And that same certain vibration is inside us. And what we talked about realizing the self, it's actually finding out that vibration, it's going and connecting and being that vibration. Because the moment you do that, then you are vibrating at the same frequency as the divine outside, and you become one with it.

Speaker 3 14:46

So, without trying to hurry this conversation to another level, because there's so much to unpack here, are there practices that we can take to align with that vibration so that we feel it?

Meditation Mantras And Humming Tools

Speaker 3 14:57

Because some I how do I know I felt it?

Speaker 1 14:59

Yes, yes. So, practices, and this is what this is not all I've learned through these um efforts that somebody put me on the path of, right? It's meditation, it is meditation, and there are different meditation practices. There's breathing exercises, there is focusing on um certain places inside our being, there is saying certain words, right, mantras. Yeah, and and I want to uh uh explain this more because this is where that identity and impressions go by, right? Okay, when we hear a word, we associate it with certain religion or certain group or certain place or people, but that is not what it is. The word, all it is, see when you speak, we the why the throat vibrates. So certain words make the throat vibrate at a certain frequency. So when we speak those words or those, and why and why we say word? Because words make sound. Right. Words make sound, that's why mantras and all that, because the point of that is to make a sound, because sound is what comes from a vibration. So the idea is to is the vibration. So when we create certain sounds, certain words, they align us with that divine creator, with that divine being. So over the years in humanity, different souls have come as messengers of the divine, bringing those words for humanity. Right. Unfortunately, we have interpreted them the wrong way, associated with them with certain groups, certain things, and we've lost the way.

Speaker 3 16:58

Yes, and that then that alienates other groups. Exactly. So are we talking, for example, um, like the word om? Yes, has a has a vibration. Has a vibration. And wahi guru has a vibration. Yes. Yes, okay.

Speaker 1 17:09

So, Wahi Guru, these four words, the way that these four sounds, the way they've been put together, when you say, and this is a practice you can do, if you close your eyes and you straighten your back, there is something in our body called the street of the present. The street. This you could call it street street, street of the present. What it is, is it's a line that connects our navel, our heart, not not the organ heart, but there is a place behind the heart, in front of the lungs, there is an empty space. It's called hirda, but for the lack of better words, let's call it our heart area. So it connects our heart area with our from our navel to our heart area to the middle of our throat, and then the middle of our between the eyebrows up to the head, where we've got the pituitary gland, which is often called the gateway to stars. And when we sit straight, this is where that energy, that being, that divine can be felt. When we put our consciousness to any of these points and we breathe in and we focus there and we feel those vibrations. So when we say vaha, vahe guru, if you say the word va from the navel, the word he from the heart, the word guru from the throat, and the word roo from from our head, we can feel that and it's a practice, it takes effort, it takes daily practice, but it's it's something like Guru. When we say the word ru, you'll feel that there's a vibration that just that takes you beyond the skin, what you just said earlier. So if if you if you practice this alone in the hours in the hours when everybody's asleep and the nature is calm, say the early hours, or or whenever you can sit alone and you say these words, and it's not just these words, because what I don't want is us to dissociate associate this with something with a certain group or certain people. If it's easier to for us in the beginning to start with other words like om or any other word, you know, even just saying God, it's about creating that vibration. Or not even saying a word, just humming. Humming. Yes. But it's about vibrating the inside so it aligns with that that divine vibration, which is outside.

Speaker 3 20:23

And the interesting thing is humming is yes, so it comes back to vibration, but that's been scientifically proven. Yes. This this so everything we talk about is not just belief or trying to shove something down somebody's throat to make them a different way. It's actually all medically scientifically proven that when you vibrate, when you hum, your vibration changes. And you could do that at any time when you're angry. You just you can't stay angry. And so can you imagine if all of us had a practice in our car? If somebody cuts us off, instead of swearing and feeling the anger, it's that is so beautiful.

Speaker 1 21:02

That is what the that is what it's the last week's HKL practice was.

Introducing HKL Humility Kindness Love

Speaker 3 21:07

But now maybe this is a good time to introduce HKL. Yes. Because we haven't really talked about that. And I know that um it's not important to talk about HKL as a movement because it it then creates some alignment and some personality, and and it's not about that. It's literally a movement that is stepping the world into a different space and place of being of humility, kindness, and love. Yes. HKL.

Speaker 1 21:34

That that's all it is. That's all it is. And um what it is is um enabling our brothers and sisters of human race, giving them the tools to transform. Transform themselves from who we've become in this race that we've all um been part of involuntarily. It's stepping away from that race and connecting with our true self through these virtues which are within all of us being humble, being kind, being loving. All animals are kind. We're all naturally kind. A plant is kind, hence it gives us fruit. It is humble, hence the tree that has the most fruits will naturally you know bow down.

Speaker 3 22:34

That's a lovely thought, actually.

Speaker 1 22:36

Yes, because it's so heavy with fruit. It bows down. So the more you the more you have to give, the more you hum, the more humble you become, the more and and you're kinder naturally, because you're giving others. And what that does is that increases love. Like a tree is a perfect example. A tree full of mangoes, it's vast, it's huge, but it's so down to earth because it's full of fruit to give out of kindness. It's not asking for look at nature. Nothing in nature gives anything for return. We get fruits from the trees for free. Yeah, but we as a race have gone the wrong path and made businesses out of it. We have created it. We grow trees, pick fruit, and we sell it for money. But who grew that fruit? Yeah, it's not a human. Can I can you and I or anybody physically sow a seed and make a tree grow? Make it make fruit for us, make it sweet, sour, big, small. We cannot. It's all being done by nature, by natural forces. That's right. But we've done, but we have in our sleep, we think that we own it. Yeah, you mean metaphorically our sleep because we've all metaphorically asleep. Being asleep with virtues of greed. Yes, virtues of control, corruption. Yeah. Right. But it is like the point was that in in the nature, everything is kind, everything is loving.

Speaker 4 24:25

Yeah.

Speaker 1 24:26

You know, like there's so many instances where we see videos of animals reacting to emotion. Yeah. When a person is sad, or horse will come in, you know, comfort you, a dog will come and comfort you.

Speaker 3 24:37

And that's why we have these as healing modalities that you can spend time with horses, because it helps children. You can spend time, I know my my my dog, she spreads more love than you could ever imagine in the whole world.

Why Humanity Feels At Breaking Point

Speaker 3 24:50

She walks into a room and the whole vibration changes. I wanted to ask you, why is it important now that we why is it important now that humanity steps up? What's happening?

Speaker 1 25:03

It's I I my I think it's always been important for millions of years, thousands of years. Hence, for thousands and thousands of years, different souls have come to take humanity on a certain path. But don't you feel it's speeding up? It is speeding up, and hence it's important way more than that.

Speaker 3 25:23

It's almost become vital that we that we get this right now. It is lots of people are interpreting, they're connecting with angels, they're connecting with higher realms, and they keep saying, this is the time, we have to do something now.

Speaker 1 25:35

Yes, because if if we look at what's going on around the world, war, children suffering, families suffering. Just take, for example, New Zealand. A few days ago I was reading a report. 40% of New Zealand children are in depression. Children. 40% anxiety, stress.

Speaker 3 26:00

But that's that that's actually not unique to New Zealand. If you think about stuff, it is not it's all around the world. It's around the world. It is all around the world. And these are the people that we're handing our world to. Exactly. What have we done to them to hurt them so much?

Speaker 1 26:11

Yeah. It is the it is what you're saying where we're all walking towards this path of destruction.

Speaker 4 26:18

Yeah.

Speaker 1 26:19

You know, we're hurting the earth through deforestation, through polluting the water, polluting the sky, and all for all for achieving something which is temporary. Totally temporary.

Speaker 3 26:33

Because I don't I take none of it with me when I go. Nothing. My jewelry. Absolutely nothing. My job, my identity, nothing matter.

Speaker 1 26:39

No amount of money, no amount of wealth, no amount of resources will stop me from dying all by myself. Can can give one person another breath. Nothing.

Speaker 3 26:51

Nothing. And there's nothing guaranteed beyond this kingdom. There is nothing. This is what we know right now. Yes. And I know we have theories about reincarnation, I know we have theories about lots of people coming. But there's actually categorically in your life and my life, we take nothing with us. But nothing. So leave the kindness, the love, leave that, leave that behind. Leave that legacy. Leave that legacy as well. Leave that legacy.

Speaker 1 27:12

Leave the world more humble, more kind, more loving. And another reason it's so important in the tod in today's world is we're seeing more and more and more of our fellow human beings in pain. In pain. I agree with you. You know, in pain. In I I like I would say without you know commenting on statistics, but 99.99% of the world is suffering. In some manner of form. In some manner of form. Yes. You know, and it it is so important because we need to take this suffering away. The world was intended by whoever created it to be happy, to be peaceful, to be a place full of love, joy, bliss for all for all to live together. That's right. You know, spread. And why shouldn't we? Exactly. When I when I say happy and uh bliss and all, it doesn't mean there's no suffering, it doesn't mean there is no uh external factors. There is, but the point is to be awakened or as to be aware enough to not be affected by those, but to remain stable.

Grief Forgiveness And Living Present

Speaker 1 28:28

In um there is something I learned um a few years ago in in a scripture. What it said is that when we take human form, we bring two cloths with us, two pairs of cloths, which is happiness and sadness, or grief and love. When we say, you know, we we we talk about nature, and nature is perfect. A flower comes with a thorn, the day comes with a night. Happiness will come with sadness, loss will come with gain. Love or um you know will come with grief. And it is natural, but the thing is is not to be um affected by it, not to not let like for example, if somebody in our life passes away, sometimes that pain is too much to bear and our life stops. It is not letting life stop due to that, and realizing the beauty around us. It is it is taking that grief and growing with it because that is what causes you to grow. In my own personal life, I um without getting too much into it, I've had a very rough childhood. I I grew up with a lot of pain, a lot of um uncertainty, a lot of um things I didn't understand as a child. But today, when I look back, I am so blessed to have lived through all those because that is what created who the person is today. That is what enabled me to want to give so much love to others. So, and and if we look at history, the greatest men have gone through suffering. The greatest men, and by men, what I mean is souls, men and women, the greatest personalities, the the people who change the world have gone through all these ups and downs. They are vital. But the idea is to anchor yourself with these virtues so you stable it, you say stable in those storms.

Speaker 3 30:33

And I think the the other really important thing there is that we don't create a big narrative around our pain and carry that as our identity.

Speaker 1 30:41

Yes.

Speaker 3 30:41

So that you and and then you begin to see that back to your point when you started, we're all playing a role. Yes. So uh i i indeed all of us have trauma trauma that comes through childhood, whatever those reasons are, whether that's been brought to you through your parents, through your through w what whatever those spaces are. And you could very easily carry that massive backpack of pain and trauma with you your whole life long and judge the rest of the world through those eyes. Yes. And I And and forgiveness isn't easy.

Speaker 1 31:15

It is not.

Speaker 3 31:16

No, but but the person that you hold the grudge against doesn't carry that burden like you do if you're carrying that load of hate.

Speaker 4 31:26

Yeah.

Speaker 3 31:27

Um, and and and and and I guess that's that's been a lifelong lesson for me is to learn to forgive. Because when you sit in, when when you sit in forgiveness, you feel a certain kind of humility. Yes. And then you show love and kindness to yourself.

Speaker 1 31:42

My own experience with this was um that you know how we spoke about the street of the present. What that means is being in the present. Because you're because we are living life in the present. This moment. This moment, like you know, when we met a few minutes ago, where is that moment? It's gone. But it right now it is here. So all our pain is in the past. Yeah, there is no pain in this moment right now. Right now, I feel a lot of joy. Yeah, there is no pain. The pain was in the past, and the past is gone. It's gone, it should be behind us. And all the anxiety, all the fear is in the future, which has not come yet. There is no fear sitting with you here in this moment. There is no fear. There is no, and if I live in present, I become fearless. If I live in present, there is no pain, I am pain. I all I have is the is the bliss and the happiness which we spoke earlier. So it's not it's not something, uh, it's not talking about uh, you know, like a perfect world, it's about being in present and experiencing in an imperfect world. In in that imperfect world, but being in that present. So pain comes, it's so what you said about forgiving, what the biggest transformation for me was that it has gone. Why am I still living in the past? And when through meditation I learned to live in the present, I didn't have to forgive anyone, it automatically went away. That's it, the pain went away. The forgive because they were whoever caused me pain, they were learning to live life too. That's it. It was, you know, they had their own journey. They did not cause me pain. It was my perception of life that caused me pain. For example, we we're sitting, right? If if if I see you walking on the street and I don't know you, you don't know me. Or say we know each other, but I say some mean words to you. My mean words to you in actuality won't do anything to you. It's my it's I've said them, I've put that out in the universe through my tongue. They've caused a vibration in me. But if you detach yourself from those, if you don't get affected by them, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. So what but what happens is when we hear somebody saying something to us and we react to it, that's what causes all our problems.

Speaker 3 34:12

That's easy when we're adults, but if you think about, and and and this is another tangent, and we don't have to go there now. I think that if you look at a child who comes from a family of abuse, you know, when that happens really young, there's there's there's there's a very difficult journey for that child as she grows older at two or three or four and and experiences all those sorts of things. And and I think that what we probably should make clear is we're not trying to explain that away. No, we're not so so so we're we're we're we're not trying to make any sense of that, and and this conversation is not even going to cover those because neither of us are psychologists. Um and so that's it's all we can talk about is our experience. Is our experience right here, right now.

Speaker 1 34:54

Yes, and I like for example, I said before, I grew up with a lot of pain, but I know that the only thing that helped me, and and that is why I say I'm doing all this, is to give those tools to people that help me. And those tools were meditation, those tools were being in the present, was was being um realizing the beauty around me, you know, the blessings I have. It's it's if if there's ten things going wrong, there's ten things going right.

Speaker 3 35:20

Potentially, exactly. 100% because the the those are the scales of life.

Speaker 1 35:25

Yes, so it's and I this is a very personal opinion, right? If I could, and I want to, I would want to take everybody's pain, if I could, so that that but pain is important. Pain is important, you can't because you're starting somebody else's journey. But what we can do is give them something to work with that pain. That's right. Give them a tool, give them a way, give them a path that they can walk on where they can make sense out of what's happening, yeah, and be grounded, and be peaceful, and be stable. Because if I look at this world as a storm and a person as a boat, then you need an anchor to stable your make yourself stable in that storm. And that anchor is, as you said, realizing my own self, my being. It's realizing these virtues, connect to this, to the real, to the real self that we all have within us. And and that can be only done through meditation, through self-reflection, through sitting alone, through doing something for others. It's so many different ways.

Speaker 3 36:36

That's right, that's right.

Sikh As A Way Of Life

Speaker 3 36:37

And so if we bring it back to HKL, tell me a little bit more about this. So HKL is now it's a movement, it's not a religion, it goes beyond color, creed, choice, um, gender, it goes beyond borders, it is a movement that was started.

Speaker 1 36:52

Over to you. So it was started um in 2024, in the name of HKL, you could say. Yes. You know, the movement's been there in different forms, different ways. But HKL in 2024, and it was um it had to do with a lot of young people, uh, by young I mean, you know, bodily young, yes, but souls around the world that aligned with this idea of wanting to give wanting to give something back to the to the to the human race or helping our fellow brothers and sisters. It was it started with um identifying what's where we're going wrong around the world and and trying to correct it, correct it through practices, to daily practices of kindness, of humility, of love. Of it started in India in 2024, and India just because that's where everyone was together, but it's grown to 83 countries, 85, sorry, 85 countries currently, uh, with about 23,000 souls around the world, which have committed to this um movement, and by commitment, what I mean is they've made a promise to themselves that we'll work on ourselves to change, to transform, to connect with being humble, being kind, being loving, and spreading this in our families, in our homes, in our communities, in turn, the whole world. And um what this movement is currently doing, it's you can you can go check out the website. And you know, we have to use these words and these things because that's the way the world works right now. Um and I've learned this that when we look at you know, when we look at all the books, the books look all the same, but only when you pick up a book and read is you see how different it is from others. So similarly, this might look like an organization, that might look like just another um movement or or thing, but it is it is not. This has never happened before on the scale it is happening right now. So unless until and unless we read about it, we experience it, we feel it, we won't know it. So I would encourage you know all of us to to go visit, check, and experience. Because something you said before about vibrations, that these are scientifically proven. And when you say something is scientifically proven, practice is this, that, what that means is go practice it, go do it, and you'll see the results. You know, if somebody wants to go test water, everybody can see it is made up of H2O. So hence, if you do the practice, you'll feel the peace and you'll know it is true. It is true the way it is being said.

Speaker 3 39:45

Yeah. Can I add something there? I think that I'm not unique in finding that formal religion feels that it sometimes lets us down. So I I wasn't brought up in a very religious home. We never had any religious practices. So it comes to a point where you where I've started to try to find that path of my of myself. And there's nowhere that I've really felt comfortable. I've been invited to various churches, and something doesn't ring true for me. I've I've done a lot of work over the recent years, especially with the help of AI, trying to understand the Bible, being being talked through Exodus and Genesis and studying how, you know, is the Bible grounded in truth? Is it a fable? Do did those miracles actually happen? Is there a scientific explanation? But what all of this does is it's very cerebral, it's very up here.

Speaker 1 40:35

It is not here.

Speaker 3 40:38

And so what I found particularly um moving for me with HKL is that none of that matters. It doesn't. It's about it's about sitting quietly and finding a moment of peace and being part of a community where there's a weekly practice that is given out, and I can choose to do those practices. And they really, it's not about, it's it's not doing anything difficult other than, for example, sitting with myself for five minutes a day. Exactly. Doing doing a small, whether you call it meditation or silence or reflection, you know, you don't want to align words to this because the words once again create perceptions of things. So it's those moments of sitting quietly, what's happening with me right now, reflecting, where where did I show kindness? Where did I where where could I have shown more love? And then also feeling that love returned. Yes, it is, it is. And that feeds and that becomes a self-perpetuating prophecy within oneself. Yes.

Speaker 1 41:43

And uh I do a lot of community work, and by community work I mean But is that a s is that a Sikh thing, or is that a you personal thing? It started as a Sikh thing, right? I I I grew up in a Sikh household. Yes. My parents were Sikh, but I would like to clear one thing, which has um and I because I don't know who the audience is. When you go, you know how you said that you look through AI, you look through internet. Yes. When you go internet, you type Sikhism, it says, oh, it's one of the religions. But it is not. It is not a religion. And I know that by being a being someone who practices that path, who has practiced that path all his life. Yes. 31 years since I was born into it. Sikhism is not a religion. Not a religion, not a religion. Okay. It is it is all it is, is a way of life. And I know uh words like this are used elsewhere as well to you know hook people to do this, but it is true, and you only know this by practicing. There are certain things we've learned to do as Sikhs, like for example, going to the Sikh temple, you could say. But it didn't start as a temple in Sikhism. It is not what it is is a place for everyone to get together. It is a place for everyone to get together, cook together, eat together, that's lovely, and feed others. Yeah, um, the there the in sikh in in you could say sikhism. When I say ism, it relates to religion. So I don't like using the word sikm. It is not sikhism, it's just being a sikh. The word sik means student, seeker, learner. If you are learning, you are a sikh. Somebody asked me this question four four years ago, and uh it was, can I be a sik and something else at the same time? And the answer, like by something else, might be a Christian or a Muslim. Yes, you are. If you are a Christian and you are learning, you're naturally a Sikh. You don't have to be look certain way to be sick. Now, if now the question is, okay, then why do I look the way I look? Right? That comes from that impression you said in the beginning, right? Why? Is that impression important? Yes. Because if I want to help others around me, I need them to not go away from me. If I came here without clothes, with open hair, you wouldn't want to sit and talk to me. But why wouldn't I? Because of what you've learned through the world. Think of this. When we are out in the street, right? And we see a homeless person or or we see somebody on the streets who's um conventionally I would like I would I would not like to use the word dirty, but say they're not they're they're they're not hygienic. You don't want to go sit with them and eat. And that's true. You wouldn't, right? No, I wouldn't. And that's the truth. Well, it's we we need to realize our shortcomings too. Yes. Hence that impression is important. So what it now, when I say so, what happens in Sikhism, there's certain things we practice. Yes. What is it is I keep my hair, I don't cut my hair on my body or my head. Yeah. And there's a reason. The reason for it is, and it's not related to the religion. All it is is that you are trying to be the way you were created. I was created like this by nature, so I am like that. If I don't, you know, trim my beard to look a certain way because it is not natural. So Sikhism is living the natural way. Sikhism is living the natural way. Now somebody would ask, okay, if natural, then why do you cut your uh nails?

Speaker 3 45:29

Yeah, you can keep asking the question.

Speaker 1 45:31

We cut our nails above, not here, because nails here are alive. But the protein which is dead grows out, so you take off the dead protein. A Sikh combs their hair. Somebody would ask, hair are dead, they're not. Dead hair break from roots. So when you comb, you take away the dead hair. But the hair which are alive, which are still connected to the root, stay on your head. So there's a reason for all these things, right? And then a Sikh takes a bath every day. And it is just to keep yourself clean. So when you're out there in the world spreading love, kindness and humility, nobody goes away from you because you're you're unhygienic. Because you're smelly. Exactly. Sikhs, you'll see that Sikhs wear a turban. Why do we wear a turban? Because where this demographically, where this religion, uh, where this um where all these religions came being, the Muslim religion, the Hindu practices, this and that, like from that, from that part of the world, you could say, there were two practices that attach to the to the turban. One is for thousands of years, there was this practice where when you go somebody meet, when you go meet someone higher than you, spiritually, higher than you, you cover your head. Yes. So a Sikh, the reason for wearing turban is me being humble and thinking that everyone around me is higher than me. Everyone above is above me. And by above I mean not class, not um, you know.

Speaker 3 47:10

So that's your natural humility.

Speaker 1 47:12

Yes, natural human. So that's so that's you being the the mango tree. Yes, that I I respect you by covering my hair. That's my covering my hair. The other reason is because my hair are long, I wash them to keep them clean, to keep them, um, to keep them in one place and I cover. And then this became a part of this identity, which is which which is not identity, but 500 years ago in India, when they were um it was the rule was of the Mughals. Um these were you know, these were predominantly rulers from the Islam faith, came from Iran and other countries, but they were they they politically were ruling over India. And at that time, only kings were allowed to wear turbans. People, everyday people weren't. They weren't even allowed to wear footwear, they weren't allowed to carry swords or only kings in them at that time basically. So when Sikhism um again, sorry to use the word ism, it's not, but when this when this way of life started, it started as a rebellion that all humans are one. Yes, that we will everyone will wear a turban, not just kings. Everyone will carry a sword, hence you see Sikhs still wearing that kirpan. It has over the years, it's it's but when it started, the idea was that no, you can't divide humanity in class and that. Everyone has the same um, and you'll see that. You know, and you'll see Sikhs they do horse riding. Yes, that was because at that time only kings and um higher class people could ride horses, others had to walk. So Sikh is so what's people who came to the Sikh faith, they were like, you know what, you're a peasant, you're a farmer, but you will do things that a king does. Wear a turban, take a sword, take a horse. So it was to bring that equal. And because the world was so cruel at the time, those measures were important. But if we bring it to today's world, obviously nobody is fighting wars with swords. You know, though nobody is um, there's no but there are still some subtle practices where that class comes in, that that hierarchy comes in, and being a Sikh is all about breaking those barriers that are because India is a very class system. It is, it is due to the thousands of years of you know, um different systems that came through. So when you go to a Sikh um place, I I wouldn't use the word temple, but a place, right? In in our language, we call it Gurdwara. The word guru means teacher, teacher, yeah, dwara means gate. Okay, so the temple is the gate to the teacher, gate to the teacher because you're a student, you're a Sikh. You're going to the and the teacher is the divine. So you as a human being are a student going to the teacher, the divine, to learn. That is all Sikhism is. And that place is called Gurudwara, that gate to the teacher.

Speaker 3 50:11

And what you do in there is so it's easier to call it a temple rather than guru gate.

Speaker 1 50:16

Uh for others' language, for the language. For my language. Yes, for language, you know.

Community Service Equality And Belonging

Speaker 1 50:20

But it is Gurudwara. And what it is is you'll go there and you'll see that everyone sits together, everyone cooks together, eats together.

Speaker 3 50:28

I experienced that when I was invited to that HKL workshop. A big pot of food was brought in, and everybody we all set together.

Speaker 1 50:34

And you'll see a lot of cultures around the world did they do that. Another thing was we one one distinct thing in in this faith you see is the equality of men and women. And it started 550 years ago when it was not like that. Like even to this date, there are certain faiths where women are not allowed to go to the same temple as the middle. And uh they're not allowed to sit at the same place. And Guru Nanak Devji, who is the founder of the Sikh faith, he said a line which is in that language. What it is is Sokyo Manda Akhie, jit jammay rajan. What it means is how can you call her unclean and unpure? Because that is the terms they were used. To a like he he said, like he said it to the world. How can you call a woman unclean due to menstrual cycles? You know, like because these practices happen or or unworthy of meeting God, whereas it is the woman who gives birth to kings and gods and people who you look at as gods, because kings at that time were looked at as gods, and Gurnanak Devji was like, it's a woman who gave birth to the to the king who you look at as a god, so how can you not? So in Sikhism, you'll in Sikh faith you'll say when we go sit in the temple and where we all meditate, where we all reflect, the hall is divided into two parts. On one side, men sit, on one side women, but they're sitting at the same level together in front of the teacher. There is no difference at all. So this faith was all about equality, all about bringing everyone on the same plate, on the same page, you know. Okay, and um and in because you know we wanted to talk more about this. I there's a practice in Sikhism, we call it it, it's called Amrit Shakana, which is in English terms you can call baptism. But what it is is it is an initiation ceremony where someone becomes comes into the faith. And in that, a pot of water with some sweets is created reading the teachings of the gurus, but then that pot, a sip of that water is given to everyone through the same pot. So that takes away the idea of you, because you know, like you don't if you if I drink if you wouldn't want to drink water from someone's glass due to various reasons, but it's even taking that away that you're all one, you need to drink from the same pot, yeah, because you're all one, yeah, and you know, you come as one. So that is where um so I think uh without getting lost into this, when you asked me where does service come from, so that that is another thing that is taught in in the faith is doing service to others, donating your time, your money, your teachings, everything to others, distributing. So for me, service started from there, but the more I do, it is it is all about this is what I'm supposed to do, this is what my purpose is. It's there is and why I wanted to say that was that because these are practices that I've experienced, I would encourage if you do something selflessly for someone else, you'll feel the peace right away.

Speaker 3 54:02

100%. If you an act of kindness, one given out makes a hundred comeback.

Speaker 1 54:07

And it's makes you feel the hundred come back. It started with what you said when you forgive someone, you feel peace. So what I'm saying is these practices are not a they don't give you a promise after life, they don't give you a kingdom that you're gonna walk into after this life. It is all here right now. Yes. You give love, you receive love right away. You give, you serve, you feel peace right away. You it is all about experiencing that. And to me, being in the Sikh faith, being in the Sikh faith, but it all what Sikhism is, is all about realizing that I am nobody, I am nobody, it is all one, it is all one.

Speaker 3 54:48

It's and that feeds so beautifully into this HKL movement, yes, and that is why I align with it and I'm giving all to it.

Speaker 1 54:55

Yeah, you know.

Speaker 3 54:56

Um and so there are moments in the Sikh faith, uh sorry, in in HKL movement around the world where people get together and they feel that moment of healing, and and because there's this meditation together, yes, um, and uh and and everybody comes together as one in the same place.

Speaker 1 55:13

It is. Guru Nanak Devji, whom I mentioned, he also went to um Rome. He traveled around the world when he was there. Yes, he met the Pope at the time, and this diary of that Pope was discovered in 2012. Oh, that's interesting. Yeah, and the Pope wrote that I met a sage from India today and it changed my life. And what it was was he went in, because at that time, sadly, our brothers and sisters who whose skin color is black, they were treated as slaves. And others too, not just blacks, I'm sorry to use that word, but uh so you know, like they there was a practice of slavery at the time. So Guru Nanak Devji challenged that. He was like, No human has the right to make another human a slave. You cannot do that because we're all we are all the temple of the divine, house of the divine. You know, when I when I practice my faith and I bow my head to the divine, but the divine I'm bowing my head to, Bridget, that divine is in you. That is what my faith teaches me. It doesn't matter if you believe in that or not, it doesn't matter if you call that divine by other name, but to me as a Sikh, it is the same divine. So naturally I align with your faith as well. Yes, so it's because that is why we say it's not religion, it is all about I can go sit with a Christian in um in a church and just meditate. It wouldn't make a difference to me because I know what I'm praying to. It is the same thing a Christian brother is praying to. I can go to a mosque and sit with a Muslim and and do Namaz, because to me it's the same thing. It is a beautiful. There's another line I read, I remember from the scripture. Gurnalak Devji met this Muslim man in Baghdad and uh he said, Oh, you do namaz five times a day. That's beautiful, that is amazing. But you know what your namaz uh is abval sifat, abval means first. The first namaz you do is the praise to the Lord. Duji saburi, the second namaz you offer to the Lord is being uh being uh content, having sabr. Tjay haleimi. The third is being humble, halaimi means humble, humility, that's your third namaz during the day. So if you during the day you play, praise the Lord for everything He has given you. If you've been content content, if you've been in humility, the Chote khari doing service, the fourth Namaz is serving others. Panjay, it's like having all these, and and and the fifth is having your emotions in check. Those are your five Namashs and you become a beautiful Muslim. But you see, it's it's it is it is very simple. Truth is simple. Truth is simple, and it can be laid out on the table for anyone to grab it. It is and and I think that is what I've learned through all my practices, all my experiences.

Speaker 3 58:11

And I think that that's a that's a really lovely place to land because it doesn't matter whether you're a Christian, what kind of Christian you are, whether you're a Muslim, it doesn't matter where or who where you sit. We're all part of the same thing. And those those divisive walls of religion were only ever instilled in man to create separation, to create anxiety and to and to control power and to control people. Yes. And if you take all of that away, we're all really exactly the same. Exactly the same. Whatever you call your God, however you view it, whatever name you give it, it it's actually really one.

Speaker 1 58:50

And I think we don't even have to give a name.

Speaker 3 58:54

We don't have to give a name, it's just a nice. We don't give a name and just feeling. This godlike divine counsel, whether there's a hundred or whether there's, you know, there is there is no man that sits in an afterlife that judges with a book, that forgives when you pray. There's the n none of that actually makes any sense. It is. It's all about what you do on a daily basis, minute by minute, that counts.

Speaker 1 59:16

Second by second, minute by minute. We live, we live our lives every second. We don't live hundred years together. The seconds accumulated become a hundred years. That's right. But it's living in every second. In every second. And if you think about it, a second is not enough to think about all these things. A second is only enough to experience.

Speaker 3 59:39

And it's back to what I said earlier on. It's the thinking of it that that that sometimes creates so much contention, trying to understand it all. Yes. And and and sometimes the simplest way is just to feel it. It is. And the easiest way to feel that is is with that silent practice. And so if we teach our child, if if if we take a few things away, we teach our children that those moments of silence matter.

Teaching Kids Humility At School

Speaker 3 1:00:03

Um, a cell phone and social media won't bring that to you. The circle with your friends won't bring that to you. It's those moments where you sit quietly for you and for me and for our children.

Speaker 1 1:00:12

Yes. Um and and we my I have two children, uh seven-year-old daughter and an eleven-year-old son.

Speaker 3 1:00:20

But they're on social media.

Speaker 1 1:00:22

No, they're not. Okay. No. And um I we teach them through the temple, through the by lack of words, temple, the school, of serving. They go out in the temple, wash dishes for others. Perfect. They go and, you know, just set everybody's shoes. Uh, they serve food to others, they sit, meditate, and it's it's seeing them grow into those beautiful people through these acts and being on the path of humanity, yeah, is what is uh all it is about. And it's through this movement and my involvement. And so, you know, when I mentioned about Australia, I was lucky to go there and start a primary school, which is starting next year. And the idea of that primary school is so that we can have children for eight hours a day where we can teach them these things. When we can imagine a child that goes to a school eight hours a day, 15, 16 years for their life, and all they learn about is humility, kindness, and love. All they learn about is being humble, being kind, being loving. All they learn about is that all the humanity is my brother, everyone is my brother and sister, and they start to unlearn the division. And imagine 18 schools around the world with 18,000 kids in there, and then suddenly, 15 years from now, you've got about 18,000 families in the world that believe in this, that has lived through this, and the world suddenly becomes a beautiful place.

Speaker 3 1:01:50

Yeah. And to your point about school, I really believe that school is the sows the seeds for the children. You know, we we give teachers so much of our children's time and and and to not use any of that time just to be present, just to be humble and kind and learn to love everybody.

Speaker 1 1:02:13

That's why back in the days, kids used to learn in churches, in temples, in gurdwaras, because their teachings were grounded in those teachings of the divine.

Speaker 3 1:02:25

But it doesn't, you know, from the industrial revolution, all of that was. Yes. And I mean long long before, but the industrial revolution, I guess, really solidified that. School is to prepare people to go into the industry.

Speaker 1 1:02:36

Yes, and and I think that's that also answers the question you asked in the beginning. Why is this important? It is now because we need to make sure that our coming generations are aligned with nature, are aligned with the Mother Earth, are aligned with the human race. So we save ourselves. We save ourselves from the impending doom we're all walking towards.

Speaker 3 1:03:00

Yeah. Okay.

Sign Up And Join The Movement

Speaker 3 1:03:01

AJ, this has been such a wonderful and enlightening talk. And and I really feel the um the ease at which we've been able to converse. Um for anybody that's taken the time to listen to us today, where where do we leave them? What's what would your closing messages be?

Speaker 1 1:03:22

I um again, thank you so much for having me today. It was it was amazing. And and this is this is what we all aspire to do, is to teach each other and get inspired from each other. And I think um the closing message, I I don't think it's a closing message, it's an opening message. That's a good reframe, yes. Because we're opening the door, we're not closing the door, we're opening the door to being a beautiful person, to being this beautiful um and amazing, um amazing drop in the big ocean that we all are. And it starts with realizing that we need this, that we need to be humble, we need to be kind, we need to be loving. And there are many ways of it, but this this one, the movement we talk about, if we go to the website and we sign up, and by sign up, there's no money, there's nothing nobody asking for. What sign up is is you'll get an email in which you get practices weekly, which you can practice daily. And I think I would start with not end it, but I would start the conversation with please, please sign up and experience those practices for a week, for two weeks, and feel the change, feel the peace, feel the transformation. And if that helps, spread that in your family, in your friend circle, people around you. And if there's any questions, if there's any concerns, you can they can always um go to the website, ask there. But there's a huge community that that we can get together. There's and a seeker would find the way. A seeker would find the way if someone is a real seeker, and if someone is wanting to transform, they will find the way on its own through the website, through you, through me, through anyone.

Speaker 3 1:05:17

But yes, because that's important. Nobody can force anybody into a journey. But if we're looking for a place to start, I think this is a very beautiful place to start.

Speaker 1 1:05:26

It is a beautiful

Toronto Conference And Final Invitation

Speaker 1 1:05:27

place to start.

Speaker 3 1:05:27

Um, and tell tell me a little bit very briefly about the conference that's that's happening in August in Toronto.

Speaker 1 1:05:32

Thank you for reminding me. I didn't want to forget that. So uh HKL has been doing um conferences around the world. We've done six so far, beautiful conferences where thousands of souls have gathered, where we've listened to uh speakers, where we've had questions and answers, guided meditations, food, music. Um, the one I I've been to four of them, and I've been part of planning three of them, and the one in Australia was amazing. We had aboriginal singers, aboriginal speakers come through to speak about their experiences. And the next one is in Toronto, 8th of August. The in all the details are on the HKL website. And people are invited. Everyone is invited, it's free. You just have to book your ticket, which is online. You can book, you can go there, be part of this amazing, an amazing uh event, and and see what it is all about, and then it gives you it enables you to be a part of this community, a global community, which is thousands of souls wanting to transform. And when when you're sitting in that one room, one hall, with like, for example, the conference in Surrey Abbotsworth, 8,000 people. Wow. Imagine 8,000 people sitting and meditating with the same intention with the same intention, the power, the immense, the immense ability that there is in that room. It's something to experience. And um, I would invite you and Louis to please join over there, and anyone else who can please go there, experience the conference. And all this is on the website too. How you can join with HKL. You can join it through being part of a conference, through being part of the HKL practices, through joining social media, or you know, yeah, because we're all on social media. Why not be it for something that is good, for something good that is helping? And and there are so many ways. There are so many ways. So let's open that door. Okay, let's open that door and um for for us, for others to walk into, where it is the same world, but the eyes that see the world change. It is the same sounds, but the ears that hear those sounds change. It is the same tongue, but the words that come out change, they become more humble, more kind, more loving. It's all about humility, kindness, and love. And I think I would I would conclude this with HKL is all about transformation. Transformation is all about action, and action is about doing something, signing up, going there, or doing something. Not thinking. Thinking is dreaming, and we can't achieve anything in dreams.

Like Share Review And Goodbye

Speaker 1:08:25

If you enjoyed this podcast, please like it, share it, leave a review on Spotify, on Apple Podcasts, or just give me a thumbs up or get in touch with me. I really want to continue this podcast and grow it for not only your sake but for my sake and become a better interviewer and find out more about the world that we live in. Until next time, take care.