Empowering Survivors: Katrina Terry's Fight Against Child Trafficking

On the newest episode of The Still Waters Podcast, Teri interviews Indianapolis-based nonprofit leader Katrina Terry, founder of Lion 195 Against Trafficking and Resilient Gemstones. Katrina shares her history of childhood kidnapping and sexual abuse, later assault in the military, and how healing through Jesus led her to help others. She describes work with trafficked children, including advocacy, policy efforts, and plans for trauma-informed ranches, citing claims of fewer than 300 U.S. beds for trafficked children and that many end up in foster care. The conversation covers trafficking warning signs, online/gaming risks intensified after COVID, practical parent monitoring, and how to support survivors by believing them, taking action, and providing resources, prayer, and safety checks.

To learn more about the organizations mentioned in the episode, check out the following links:

LION195 Website: www.lion195.org

LION195 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/lion195org

LION195 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lion195org/

All things Resilient Gemstones: https://linktr.ee/resilientgemstones 

00:00 Welcome and Guest Intro

00:47 Katrina Nonprofit Mission

02:44 Her Trauma Journey

05:01 From Healing to Calling

05:59 Strip Club Outreach Insights

06:53 The Bed Shortage Crisis

08:34 Trafficking Myths and Foster Care

11:19 Building Ranches and Advocacy

12:43 Resilient Gemstones Explained

15:31 Forgiveness and Self Forgiveness

17:42 Altar Healing Testimony

20:45 Letting Go of Control

23:02 Spotting Trafficking Signs

24:39 Behavioral Red Flags

25:38 When to Make the Call

27:27 Online Grooming Reality

29:03 Monitoring Without Fear

32:44 Digital Risk

35:01 Supporting Survivors Well

35:39 Why Belief Matters

40:46 Shame and Repeated Trauma

45:15 Hope and Healing Closing

Contact The Still Waters Team 

www.stillwaterslife.com

Email us at:

• Julie@stillwaterslife.com
• Rufus@stillwaterslife.com
• Teri@stillwaterslife.com
• Abrielle@stillwaterslife.com

Let us help you find healing and wellness at The Still Waters.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:21

Welcome back to the Stillwaters podcast. Today is April 9th, 2026. And today I have a very special guest joining us. Her name is Katrina. Terry. Welcome to the podcast, Katrina.

SPEAKER_00 0:37

Hi, Terry. Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_01 0:39

Thank you. I'm so glad that we were able to finally link up to record this podcast. Katrina has got some really fabulous work that she's doing. And she is based out of Indianapolis, which is just north of where I live. But she has some really good work that she's doing. And I just felt like our audience needed to hear all about it. So, Katrina, why don't you just start by telling us a little bit about who you are and what you're doing?

SPEAKER_00 1:07

Okay, wonderful. So uh, well, I'm a mom and uh definitely a believer in the Lord Jesus, and also uh run a few nonprofits. One of them is Lion 195 against trafficking, which is my main heart and passion uh to help children that have been trafficked, uh sex trafficked specifically. Uh, and then also we have resilient gemstones. So that is for all ladies that uh no matter the age, uh, teenagers on up, uh, to be in a safe space for those that have gone through sexual trauma. And then we have conferences for that too, for people to attend uh for healing conferences. So it's some of it. It's very busy that is wonderful.

SPEAKER_01 1:54

So, how long have you been doing all of this? I mean, how many how long have your nonprofits been in around?

SPEAKER_00 2:01

Yeah, so um I started, well, about it's four years in June for Lion 195, and then Resilient Gemstones is about two and a half years. Uh so yes.

SPEAKER_01 2:15

Okay. So I guess we so we met at a conference back in 2022, I think it was, or 23. So you must have just had maybe just started line 195 at that time, I'm thinking.

SPEAKER_00 2:31

Yeah, so it was probably about a year old then.

SPEAKER_01 2:33

About a year old. Okay, okay. Well, I mean, we just briefly talked, but I know that um what I did learn uh and what I've followed you since then, you know, on uh LinkedIn and everything. And I'm seeing that you're doing some wonderful work out there. So what what prompted you to get into this kind of work? Um, would you feel comfortable sharing a little bit about your journey and how you got involved with all of this?

SPEAKER_00 2:58

Yes, absolutely. So because I personally have um, you know, when I was seven, I was kidnapped uh just two houses down from the house I lived in by a serial pedophile that hadn't been caught yet. And, you know, as I was held hostage, went through a lot of sexual trauma and fear actually that I was even gonna make it out of the house alive. So um after the Lord made a way for me to do so, um, and then he was caught right away and got almost lifed in prison. About a year and a half later, my mom passed away, and then I was adopted by the wrong people, and they were family. So uh went through another eight years immediately it started of sexual trauma in the home. And it, you know, my aunt that was supposed to now be my mom, when I told her what her husband was doing, you know, she didn't believe me. So that's why it went on so long. So when even down the road, you know, I I joined the military, uh, graduated after 9-11 and was overseas, and another service member came into my room at night, and the rape was so bad that I developed a heart condition immediately, and it really broke me. So this was the point where I emotionally, mentally, physically, I had had like enough. My body was done, you know. So I was truly a shell for about six months, and I mean, I didn't smile, I was not myself. It just it really broke me. So um, not only did it start a heart condition that was life-threatening for 10 years until God changed it, where I still have superventricular tachycardia, but it's not at the level of me calling an ambulance every month and so forth, praise God. Um so, you know, I because I went through the journey of it for me, it was 30 years of trauma from that point. And, you know, it's um it ruled my life, you know, fear of something else happening again that was always behind me. Um I mean, I was one that was always looking over my shoulder. Um, my my blinds were always closed, you know. I just it was um, it was not fun. Uh so until uh until God healed me at an altar and gave me me back. And since then, um my heart and passion is to help people heal. And especially when there's not help out there at this level, uh, you know, especially if someone has been trafficked or traumatized in this way, there is help, but there's not enough of it. There should be more. There should be more people um saying, you know, getting out of the error of that's not something we talk about. You know, that was 30 years ago. It was we don't talk about that in this house, you know. You know, we need to be out of that. That should not be the thing. It should be like, let's talk about it. How can we support you heal instead of suffering in silence, right? So I say I'm walking in my purpose on purpose because now that I'm healed, that it doesn't control my life anymore. And so I um, you know, God God started line 195, but before that I was in the strip club ministry. Um, and half the girls in the strip clubs are trafficked, and people don't realize that. And so um going in.

SPEAKER_01 6:37

Can I interrupt you there? I have heard a little bit about that, but could you could you expand on that a little bit more?

SPEAKER_00 6:43

Sure. So um, yeah, you know, going in in groups, and there's typically it's it's church groups or those that have felt led, you know, and um going in and praying with the ladies, you know, like the strip clubs allow us to come in. Um, we would pray with them, but then, you know, they're typically also like addicted to um whatever it may be, and and even to make it through what they're doing, you know. Uh, and so, you know, was in that for quite some time. And then when God revealed, I had heard that there was less than 300 beds in the whole United States for children that have been trafficked to come and heal and recover from what they've been through. And that shook me. I was like, oh my goodness, yeah, you know, and all the beds are full. So there's really not beds, you know.

SPEAKER_01 7:34

Less than 300? Yeah. Wow. The whole US. I can't even begin to imagine that.

SPEAKER_00 7:42

Yes. And and that's what's so sad because from like, you know, rescues, you know, you even hear on the news and there's there was a thousand kids rescued, you know, but like where do they go? Right? Because if there's not those beds, they're not going to a place that are actually equipping them to heal from what they've been doing.

SPEAKER_02 8:02

Right.

SPEAKER_00 8:03

So that, you know, I had mentioned it twice. The first time I had like a check in my spirit when I said, I'm praying for God to send someone for these children. And then the second time, you know, I said it, I was like, Oh, I need to pray. So um, God let me know, pray, don't pray for me to send someone else, pray for me to use you. And I was like, All right, Lord. And so that's why Lion Y5 was birthed, and then ever since then, he's put many, many connections in in our path uh for the children. So that's wonderful.

SPEAKER_01 8:35

So, okay, so let's back up a little bit because now I'm got all sorts of questions around through my head. Okay, so there's it when you learn that there's less than 300 beds for children that have been trafficked that are that get or escape that. Yes. And there's where do they go? Like if there's no beds for them.

SPEAKER_00 8:54

Yeah, so 93%, and this is a misconception with trafficking. 93% of children that are trafficked in the United States are trafficked by somebody they know, and most of them are American citizens. So a lot of people think, oh, it must be because of the borders. Yes, those kids do get trafficked, absolutely, but it's trafficking in some of the best neighborhoods in the United States. It's trafficking by, you know, the person down the street, the coach, the the, you know, whoever. It's people you wouldn't think are actually trafficking, right? And so the the beds, since they're not available, then they go, the children go into the foster care system where National Foster Institute, quote, 70% of children in foster care are either trafficked or sexually abused. 70%. So that's not really a good option. They get taken out of a trafficking situation. Let's say this five-year-old was just trafficked seven, 10 times a day. And let's just call it what it is. It's child rape. It's not, you know, all these other acronyms we want to say. And then now they go into a foster family and they're thinking they're okay, but then that family turns around and starts abusing them or trafficking them because, you know, they have five other kids that they're doing the same thing to. And so that's why Lion 195 exists is to once we have the funding for the ranches, which would be the other option for children to come to, and we're very, very just strong advocates of the fact that that the children that come to us when we have the setup to not be traumatized again, you know, for it being a you know, an outlet where the kids can get the trauma-informed care healing that and all the things they need from what they've been through. Because also, too, the foster families aren't equipped to handle a child that's been through that level of trauma. And that's why kids, even if they weren't trafficked and they had a lot of trauma, 19 to 21 times they move in foster care. It's because the the families there, they have a great heart, they want to take them in, but they're just not equipped to help them.

SPEAKER_01 11:07

Yeah, they don't know what to do. Yeah. Yeah, I've I've been shouting that from the rooftops for a while about uh the whole concept of trauma-informed care with not just children, but even adults who've been you know traumatized, and people just don't understand that it's that it can that re-traumatization can happen. And so um the fact that you guys are trying to combat that, especially for children, is just uh wonderful, wonderful, wonderful. I just can't I'm in all. So um so did do you have ranches now, you said, or you're working towards that?

SPEAKER_00 11:47

So we have one of the works right now, actually, and then we've identified some other ones. And so um it's the aspect of the funding opening up, which it it we do a lot of other things from advocacy to policy change to um a lot of advocacy advocacy because there's also a lack of that to help support when even law enforcement has now recovered, uh, even adults that were trafficked, and you know, there's just a lack of advocates to go in those situations as well. So we help um how we can in that regard and partner up with other people, and it's really um when you know, the advocates on our team have also gone through sexual trauma before. So when we can relate, it makes a huge difference, right? Um, and and and as you know, like a lot of people don't just wake up and say, Oh, this sounds so fun. I want to jump into this, you know, but it's because either it's impacted them personally or someone they know, right? Exactly. They're passionate about it for a reason.

SPEAKER_01 12:54

Right, right, yeah. Yeah, because it's just not, yeah, you just don't wake up and go, I think I want to do this. Yeah, that sounds like fun. There's always a purpose behind it. Okay, so um tell me so this is really good information for our audience to have about what's happening with children, but tell me about your other organization, um, Resilient Gemstones, because I believe that's the one you said has to that you do work with adults. Could you tell me about that one?

SPEAKER_00 13:22

Yes, absolutely. So the Lord started about two and a half years ago. Um, and at first it was to help churches uh have groups that, you know, when you think statistically, there's a a good amount percentage of in any crowd, no matter where you're at, that there's been victims, men, women, children, um, of sexual abuse. And it's just such a taboo where just like trafficking, no one wants to talk about it because then it's making it real. But especially if they haven't experienced maybe sexual trauma and someone comes forth, it may feel comfortable because they don't know what to say. But with resilient gemstones, it's and we now took it online for online community as well. Um, so we have a Facebook page and um we have a conference every month planned this year. Uh we were in Wichita, Kansas last year, or last year, I'm sorry, in February, um, and then um, or in March, and then this coming weekend we'll be in Tacoma, Washington. And what the conference is, is that it's a non-judgment come be around others that have are experiencing this and or have experienced it and now are healed to talk about their journey to help equip to help people because it is very um uncomfortable when even in your own home, when if someone has a flashback or or they're going through something or they're reacting because they're not healed from the trauma, in a way that their own self wouldn't, their true self wouldn't react that way, then um, you know, it's hard to explain that to say a spouse or someone else in the family that experienced it. So this is an outlet and a way to come together where no one should be on their healing journey alone. So it's everyone else that's part of our team has been through trauma and God has brought them out. So I've had 80 years old tell me, I want to know how Jesus healed you because I'm still not healed. You know, I've had other people walk up to me after I'm speaking saying, I've got cameras, 10 cameras outside my house. I'm so scared that someone's gonna come back in my house, you know. So it's taking them from that fear to forgiveness and through faith that God can take it from them and heal them. And but it's not um, it's just coming along with support and and actual applicable things that they can apply to help them in their life.

SPEAKER_01 15:51

That's wonderful. So so I do work with some individuals that have been um sexually abused um in childhood and and adults, but um, that forgiveness piece is so important. And I don't know that you know, when usually, at least my experience has been when I start working with people and they're they're ready to try to start working through it, they don't even recognize that that forgiveness piece is going to be part of it. And um that and sometimes I have people that give up. So have you had that experience as well? Like they'll get to a certain point and then they'll just they can't do the forgiveness, they can't come to that point and they just stop. It's like you take 10 steps forward and then you go backwards. So, do you guys have you experienced that with some of your uh people that you've been working with?

SPEAKER_00 16:44

Yeah, and I think that's where people are very much so stuck at that is very, very common because that is us holding on to that. That means if we haven't forgiven, then we're replaying that scenario because it's still upsetting us, it's still literally traumatizing us or tormenting us, you know. Or we can still have nightmares from it, you know, whatever it may be, because it's unresolved, right? And so, um, yes, absolutely. And so um I have uh two prayers that really, really help that I got from someone else. It's a self, well, first it's a forgiveness prayer, and it's only a couple sentences long. But when people are like, I don't even know what to say or how to, this helps them walk through that. And then there's a self-forgiveness prayer after that because releasing the shame, the guilt, the resentment, and be like, I am no longer by my own will holding on to this anymore. And then understanding that this is freeing them, this is not saying that anything that happened to them was okay, you know. So um, so I have those, I share those a lot on my videos and and podcast YouTube and stuff, but it is it is key, you know, and and that's how and and God can heal immediately as well. And that's what he did for me at the altar. And so, you know, it's I I literally, if you don't mind, would that be okay if I shared that experience with you? Yeah, yeah, please. Okay, so I'm at the altar and God had just brought literally did a miraculous and saved me and my daughters from a domestic violence situation, and it was extreme. Uh, and uh, and so he made it happen where we were able to escape this house. And then I ran right to a church, you know, and God got me there. It was actually by myself, and I'm like, God, I don't want any of this anymore because I was operating from so much unforgiveness and bitterness and hurt and you know, the just every part where I was in a situation where I've been able to trust, trust, trust, and all that got broken and abused and taken advantage of. And so um I'm like, Lord, I just don't want this anymore. And I had thought I had forgiven everyone, and I knew there was something blocking me. And the Lord let me know that I hadn't forgiven my uncle, which was my aunt's husband. And I'm like, oh my goodness, Lord, help me. I don't know. I don't know Santa what to do. I thought I did it, you know. And so as I'm crying and tears are coming down my face, I touched the tear and I touched the altar, and I said, God, this is the last time I'm ever gonna cry about what happened to me and the kidnapping. And I took another tear, and this is the last time I'm ever gonna cry about my aunt's husband coming in my room at night, you know. And every single tear I laid down that with every trauma, and then I said, God, by faith, when I walk out of this church, I believe you all have made me completely whole. And God did exactly that that day. Like He gave me me back like better than before. Like I really, I never knew that. I mean, I used to have German Shepherd attack dogs because I was so fearful of my home. I didn't have a dog for five years, and then I got a dog because I wanted it, not because I needed it, because I was healed, you know. And so operating in the fact that yes, it was a 30-year journey for me, but and I loved the Lord and I loved Jesus, but I hadn't surrendered. I hadn't really given it to him to say, okay, I don't want this anymore. So we have to get to that point too where we're fed up with feeling the way, you know, sometimes um people can get locked into the fact of what have happened to them. Well, this is just who I am now, this is just how it is, you know. You know, you don't know what happened to me. Uh, and so I'm gonna react this way. Well, that's not what that's not what God wants for us. God wants us to be healed and made whole.

SPEAKER_01 20:50

Yeah, that's really the victim mentality rather than the survivor mentality. And you can get wrapped up in a lot of anger and a lot of um angst of over that if you don't get to that point where you can release it. So that's wonderful.

SPEAKER_00 21:06

Well, even the survivor mentality can can go wrong too, from the standpoint of like I went real strong that way. Like, okay, I don't need anyone, I've got this, I'm fine, you know, built up a wall, and then it took me longer to get there because I'm like, I'm not gonna allow anything else to happen to me, right? But I had control, so it wasn't even but like six weeks ago that the Lord let me know, like you're still operating in the ways before you came to me, your reactions, and it's a control thing, right? And because typically when things have happened to us that were out of our control, we want to take control and we may go too hard, you know.

SPEAKER_02 21:49

Right.

SPEAKER_00 21:50

And so when the Lord revealed that and showed it, and I was like, oh my goodness, I I don't want that. I want you to be in control, I don't want to have to have this, you know. And so it was another prayer, another time with the Lord on my knees in my living room, and he took that from me. And um, and ever since then, I tell you, Terry, I have had the peace of the Lord more than I had the peace before. And because I'm not operating from that anymore. And people get when they get released, I said this at the last conference about. Control. And there were many ladies that were there that were much, much, much older than me. And they said, you know, I didn't know why God literally had me drive four states away to come to this conference. And they're like, it's the control. Like all this stuff is happening to me, but I needed to let go of the control. And so that is huge because you uh just the peace of God. It's just, I'm like, freedom.

SPEAKER_01 22:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:48

Should I have known this 30 years ago, you know?

SPEAKER_01 22:50

Yeah. So yeah. Well, I just think it's wonderful. I mean, 30 years, even 30 years ago, people weren't talking about this kind of thing the way we are now. And so many people have been walking around in like, like you said, the shame and the silence and and just don't know what to do with it. And some people stuff it, right? And they forget it. And they and that doesn't help them either because we can we can try to forget things, but our body doesn't forget. And it comes out. It comes out in all sorts of ways. So well, um, I'd like to go back to the topic of trafficking, especially with the children. Um, I I work with a lot of teens and um young people. I've got an education background too, and that's just my thing, I guess. Um, but when we talk about kids that have been trafficked, I remember I was in a school one time and I was working with some kids, and I had some strong suspicion that one of the girls that was in the class was being trafficked because of the way she was responding to the things that I was teaching them about. And so when I took took this to the teacher, the because I was just a guest speaker, obviously. Um, she just dismissed it pretty much. And I was just like, I don't know, it might be worth looking into, you know. So so when we talk about trafficking, what what are some specific warning signs that anybody, anybody in our audience that's listening to this might need to be in tune with?

SPEAKER_00 24:26

Yeah. So um different situations. So like if you were at um a store or the mall or something like that, and um, of course, there's a supposed to be a universal sign, but not everyone knows it. So how could the kids even know it if it's not really out there? But the whole, you know, and that this as in help or being, you know, trafficked, etc., but not if people don't know it's not effective.

SPEAKER_01 24:55

Um so but especially for a kid who might not even know it exists.

SPEAKER_00 24:59

Exactly, exactly. And and kids that are being in trafficked also, um if they're not being extorted online, then yes, they have gaming devices, they have social media, and that's how traffickers are are actually getting to their bedrooms in that way. But if they're not and they're trafficked by someone they know, they aren't gonna have a device to call someone. That all those things are gonna be restricted from them. So, you know, with paying attention to if you feel something is going on um and you're looking at them or the behavior, if you know, someone else is talking for them, if they don't have personal items on them. Um, and you know, most kids these days all have a phone, right? And they're busy with it, but you know, poor eye contact, um, you know, definitely are the coach in their conversations or that that person like is quick that's with them, the adult to cut off any type of communication or conversation. You know, it's what the thing is, is like we do a what's called Lion 195, join the local battle to educate communities that come in and we do a bunch of training, but it is to empower people to make that phone call. Because yes, what if that wasn't the case? But what if it is, you know, and that child is literally suffering, suffering and being abused for who knows how long, for for however long. So if you make that call, do that, and if it's nothing, then it won't, it'll just die the vine, right? So it won't do anything. But we want to empower those to like look out for, you know, I mean, and there's other things too, but like if uh if it's you're taking your kids to school and you notice the other children and someone stands out and you're seeing that kid, you know, constantly. And if you suspect that something is happening with abuse or trafficking, you'll pay attention to holiday breaks. Um, you know, if if they are, then they will definitely be abused way more on that holiday break. So you'll see how that kid shows up when they come back. You know, that that's really uh you know, a good um telltale identifier sign, but you don't want to wait till the next holiday to figure out. I'm just saying as you're as you're going as a parent, you're taking kids and dropping them off and so forth, but um it's it's you know, or frequently being moved, you know. Oh, you guys moved again, or you know, and so yeah, there's a lot of them out there, and we do a training every month too, uh, free webinar training for parents and guardians and uh to know what to look for, how to keep their kids safe as well. We do that online too.

SPEAKER_01 27:48

So, as you mentioned gaming. So um, I I deal with a lot of parents, you know, that are, you know, gaming is here, right? It's not going away. It's the thing. Kids and adults who now have a generation of adults who are have been gaming. My generation doesn't do that so much. Um, but um how do you feel like well, I mean, I think I know the answer to this, but do you feel like that the whole trafficking issue has changed? Because you mentioned that that's how they're getting to them now. So, what what do you say to parents to get them to wake up to that?

SPEAKER_00 28:24

Yeah. So COVID shifted it. That's what happened. So because of COVID, traffickers had to figure out how, you know, I mean, this extortion has been going on for a long time, but it it ramped up. I mean, I've heard quotes from 265% to, you know, you name it, but also too, it's so crazy that, you know, we quote how many kids are trafficked and all these things, but traffickers aren't filling out surveys. It's way more than we could think, you know, like today. I trafficked, you know, they're saying 10 children, you know, so it is really way more than that. And and the fact that a lot of people live within a bubble, within a bubble, and like I'm in a safe neighborhood. My kid goes to a, you know, a 10 out of 10 school, but actually there are traffickers that have recruited teenagers because they're holding, you know, photos or whatever over their head from extortion online, and to recruit other kids, you know, to be able to be part of that mess. And so it is really important to not only um be aware of who they're talking to on social media and gaming. So, like, you know, maybe they're gaming and you go and sit down and you're like, hey, what game are you playing? And pay attention to the chats that pop up. And um, and especially if you're doing random times that you sit down, it's not like Tuesday at five, I'm gonna do gaming with you, and then they know, hey, my mom's gonna be sitting beside me, don't chat me. But if you do it randomly, then you'll pay attention to that, also to talking to them without putting um these negative things in their head, because we got to be careful. We know our whole thing, let's let's protect the innocence of the children, so we don't want to put these, you know, horrible things. But you know, stranger danger is obviously something you know we talk with everyone about, but it's like, hey, by the way, if someone on gaming decides to say, hey, I want to chat with you on WhatsApp and come off of the gaming device, or you know, or wants to email them too is another way because if kids get grounded from gaming, traffickers will make a point to still get their email at some point so they can stay in communication with them if that happens. So, you know, it's it's really important to monitor. Um, and and teenagers are also deleting the apps and just reinstalling them when they know mom's gonna check it at night, you know, or whatever, and reinstalling it. So there's a lot of things that it's more so give them real examples that this is happening versus mom and dad are just being paranoid because that's what they think, you know. So, you know, there's people in Chicago like, can you please come talk to our even our Girl Scouts club? Because they're just thinking, oh, I can walk down the street and not worry about anything and all these, you know. But um there are reports online, like we have quite a few of them that we give parents that say, like, look what happened. This person was gaming and this trafficker played the long game. They were friends for over a year and convinced them that they would be happier if they lived with them and they would have to do chores, they try to build that wedge between them. So literally they came and picked up the boy, and as soon as he got to the house in another state, he was immediately handcuffed with another boy that had been there that had been raped four times a day. And then now he was part of that. And so when you give them real examples, and so they realize, oh, okay, this is truly going on, it does help that battle of them maybe paying more attention to it. So I would give real news clips, real articles. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:08

So I think the thing that you don't want to do is you don't want to scare them, right? But you want to prepare them. Absolutely. And so you have to be realistic, you know. And are they gonna be scared a little bit? A little bit of healthy fear might not be bad. But they need to know this is just the world we live in now, unfortunately. And I don't see it going away anytime soon.

SPEAKER_00 32:31

And also, too, if some and empower them that if someone is telling them that they're if they tell anyone that they're going to kill their grandparents or their parents or anything like that, say no, that's not the case. And we know who we can call to protect us if that's going on, you know, law enforcement or or whoever it may be, but to empower them that they don't have to fear that and keep going on the track of whoever's messaging them because that happens a lot. The fear is how they control at whatever level they're in the process. Wow. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:05

Oh, so let me ask you this. Do you do you ever work with any homeschool groups?

SPEAKER_00 33:12

I have not yet.

SPEAKER_01 33:14

Okay. That's um, it would be interesting to see if they would be interested in something like that. So I actually wrote a program for homeschoolers that's for sexual risk avoidance, which is what I do. It's interesting the response that you get from from homeschooling families. Some of them are very open to what I'm trying to give them, and others are like, no, I don't need that. I think the phrase you used was a bubble, living in a bubble within a bubble. And that's that's my experience. So I I would suspect that that might be some of the same things that might happen with this topic. So with them. But I so I was just curious because um you mentioned, did you say do you do go into schools every once in a while?

SPEAKER_00 33:57

So I I have been asked to come into schools, but also we do online that online webinar with online. Um, because I could see where the mentality would be that they are controlling the atmosphere for their kids as much as possible. They're homeschooling them, yeah, they are limiting that outside environment. But if the kids have a social media device of any kind or gaming, they are not limiting. You know, one of the things we say is just like you would back in the day, say, like, hey, you got to come home and the lights come on the streets, or and so we say it's it's 10 o'clock. So who are your kids talking to?

SPEAKER_01 34:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:37

So it's you wouldn't let them at 10 o'clock go on the street and talk to whatever stranger, but we really are doing that on social media and gaming. So the things that they're saying, and even AI, even AI bots are telling kids to kill themselves and all these things. You can't even let a kid play with Chat GPT just to see what it will do because it talks, it's it's crazy. Yeah, and so um, that's not even safe, you know.

SPEAKER_01 35:06

Yeah, well, I I was just curious about that because I don't want to be an alarmist, but I want to be a realist, you know, that there's there are things going on in this world that are that are not good for our young people, and this conversation today just proves it, you know. So um how so if you were talking to somebody who was like didn't know anything about trafficking, but then they run into someone, they meet someone, and somehow they know that they are a survivor of trafficking, what would you tell them that would be a good way that they could support that person?

SPEAKER_00 35:46

Well, one of the ways is no matter if they're survivor trafficking or anything that has been said by anyone to them, it should be I believe you. We don't say I believe you enough. And that is huge. I mean, I'll take an example that there was a child that was extorted online. Um, that person, that man was feared, said he would take out the her guardians if she said anything. Continued, finally, she got so scared, so she told them. Well, then um she went. This is where our judicial system went wrong, but they said, Oh, well, it's part of your fault, even though they had all the records of the phone, they saw that he was threatening her, and so she went to a program where she was counseling and going through the program. Um, and then she had also been raped prior. And they said that she failed after five months because she was still crying and counseling, and not one person had told her thus far, they believed her. So then they told the judge, well, she failed the program, they sent her to Juby, and then again, so she's being punished for the crime committed against her. Yes, yes, not okay, and so then after that, so then we someone called us, we were able to intervene, and our law team got her out. But when we told her, because I also trained the law team as well, and say, like, look, whatever she is saying, we believe her, we are gonna help her, and then the what plays out will play out, but we're here to hear her story and go forward, right? And what what resources and help does she need? And so she literally had been three years in this process now before she was out, and she said, You guys are the first person to say you believe me in three years of all what we call support that she was supposed to be in front of to not support, you know. And so, as an advocate, as a person, I see this so much that we may pull someone out of the fire for a brief moment and they're in front of someone that can help them, or front of someone that they could even just confide in to be the support like you're asking. How can we support? And then we drop the ball, and they only had a temporary relief. And now just because they may look normal and may act normal, they've got a good mask on, if you will, but they're suffering inside and they're just waiting for somebody to notice. So when we have a glimpse of that, of what's going on in someone's world like that, we want to be like, you know, I I would love to support you how I can. If if you need someone to talk to, if if you need someone to pray with, do you need resources? Are you safe now? Because a lot of times someone might say something and you think it's in the past, but it's really going on like right now, right now. And so, you know, um, if you're able to get that person alone where you know whomever else is not with them, say, hey, I just want to make sure you can trust me. We could do this quietly, but are you safe? I can make calls for you, you know. So it's empowering them that you will take those steps for them because you may be the only person that they tell, right? Yeah, because one, they just went out of their way with the fear of something really bad happening to them or their family to actually say something. And if that person doesn't do anything, then you know they would have to build up all that trust again for a glimpse of hope to be helped, you know. And just like with me, I told my aunts who I thought would believe me, she didn't believe me. I didn't tell anyone else because I thought, well, if she doesn't believe me, who would right? So it's just very, very important that we take action on what we hear, right? And don't think that someone else is gonna do it. Right.

SPEAKER_01 39:50

Yeah, and I and that whole idea of believing the person is so incredibly important. I'm so glad that you said that. Because when I work with clients, I have that same, you know, thought that I have to believe them. I have to tell because why would they come to me otherwise? Right. So um I've had people ask me, well, how do you know that your clients aren't lying to you? And so my my response to that is always, well, anybody's capable of lying. And if they're lying, that will come out. But we know statistic wise that the most people who get to that point to where they're actually trying to trust in somebody to get the help they need are not lying about it. And so that belief in somebody is powerful, very, very powerful. So I'm so glad that you you mentioned that because that's I I don't know why people do that. I don't know why in our minds we just go straight to the negative and just assume that people are lying about these things. When when they when a person puts themselves in a very vulnerable state to the point that they're going, This has happened to me, and I and I, you know, you're just screaming out for help.

SPEAKER_00 41:05

So anyway, yeah, it's a very shameful, you know, there's all these different feelings that someone can feel about themselves to have been through it, that you know, what could I have done differently? Or um, man, I you know, I'm not pure, or um, you know, it's shame is such a big deal, resentment, unforgiving, all these things. And so when and they feel that they're not worthy to even get forgiveness, you know, um, we hear this so much. It's like a it's like on repeat. And most of those that are adults that have been victimized, even as adults, were victimized as a kid. It's like that pattern continues. It's like the evil senses of vulnerability, or the people know that they can take advantage, or it's just crazy how it is repetitive. It really is multiple times. And so that's also what I think people that haven't, that 30% of adults that haven't experienced trauma, it's hard for them to wrap around because it's usually not just one time. When someone tells a story, it's two, three, four, five times they're like, they've got to be lying. How did all that happen to them? But that's really most of those that have had that. That's really the case, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_02 42:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:17

So they get to a point where finally, you know, it's enough's enough, and they want to they want to be healed, they want to be set free.

SPEAKER_01 42:24

Yeah. So I was I was thinking about your personal situation where you said you got involved with a domestic violence situation where um you had to flee, it sounds like. So um I've heard individuals in a similar situation will they'll say, Well, they made that choice. They made that choice to be with that person. Well, that's very true. You made that choice to be with that person. But the reality is when you grow up in that, when you're involved in that dysfunction, sometimes victims or survivors, you know, they don't see anything different, you know, and they they kind of lean towards dysfunction to dysfunction. They from they lead from one situation to another one. And then when, you know, praise God that you were able to get away from that situation. But you know, so that wasn't necessarily their fault, that was just part of their story, and everybody's story is their story.

SPEAKER_00 43:21

So well, and and in my situation, it actually turned bad in one week, and it was one week of us locked in a house, so it wasn't bad before that. So for me, if people thought like mine's not even that typical situation, like, oh, well, he'll change or anything like that. That wasn't the case, yeah. It was literally out of nowhere, and then now we're locked in a house and not thinking we're gonna survive getting out, right? You know, so and in that time, and there was a lot of trauma, a lot of trauma with that, you know, and so but um it it is, you know, and a lot of people get trafficked because they are running from domestic violence or they're in domestic violence shelters or they're homeless, or um one out of I think six kids that are runaways are trafficked, you're on the streets, and and and so it's it's just this revolving door of that, too. But yeah, it's also too there's so many situations. I just think of so many people's stories with domestic violence that I've run across in trafficking and they're literally running with their kids, you know. Like I was running with my daughters for over a month from hotel room to hotel room, trying to make sure one, are we gonna have enough money for the hotel room for the next night? Because we just fleed our whole house and everything. And is he is he gonna find us? And so there's so much fear and continued fear from that. So when someone is like tells you, like even if they're at a domestic violence shelter, you have no idea the level of trauma and fear that they've been through to even be at that shelter. It's not a, oh, they're just there and you know, oh, they must, you know, they must be homeless or in the shelter now, and it's no big deal. No, this is a soul that has been through so much and they're there, and they need resources and they need help and they need people to stand up for them. And others also stay in that situation because they have nowhere else to go and they don't want to be homeless. So they do put up with it longer, right? Yeah, wow.

SPEAKER_01 45:29

Well, this is I could talk to you all day, I think. But we do have to go to a close. So um, so let me ask you one one final question as we get as we come to the end here. So if I don't know who all listens to this podcast, but if we do have any survivors out there listening, what is the one thing that you would like to leave with them? What's one you know, one hopeful thought that you would like to leave with them as we conclude?

SPEAKER_00 45:58

That everyone, men, women, children, can have healing through Jesus. And it can be an immediate, miraculous healing. It doesn't have to be a 30-year journey that um that there is healing through Jesus and there is peace again, and he can fill every void that's in our hearts, and he did that for me, and he's no respecter persons you can do for everybody.

SPEAKER_01 46:23

That's wonderful. I don't know how anybody does this without Jesus, honestly.

SPEAKER_02 46:28

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 46:29

Yes. Well, thank you so much for being with us today. I am just thrilled. We may have to have another conversation sometime. Because there's just so much we could talk about. So anyway, all right. So if anyone out there has questions after hearing this and they want to know more about Katrina's work, feel free to contact us and we'll put her links to her nonprofit organizations in our show notes. And until next time, may you find healing and wellness at the Stillwaters.