Chris Burton talks about the loss of his son Zach

Chris Burton talks about the loss of his son Zach. Zach grew up playing sports and was an outstanding football player. He was loved by everyone and was a special young man. In college he and a friend tried oxycodone and became addicted. Some people have genes in their body that just trying a drug like oxycodone and it creates instant addiction. 

Chris and his wife Jennifer along with their family started a foundation to help others that are going through addictions.  Zach43foundation.com helps other people who have found themselves addicted to an opioid and they are raising awareness to overcome the stigma of an addition. 

Zach was lost to an accidental overdose from a pill that had been laced with fentanyl.

Chris talks about the ways they remember Zach and all the special times they had together. Their family’s faith in God gives them an assurance that they will be together with Zach again. They experience God winks that let them know Zach is close.

Transcript

 Hi, I am here with Chris Burton and he's another parent that's lost a child, and I'd like to introduce him and let him give his story and then we'll go into some other questions. Chris, you wanna take it?

Yeah. Thank you Rick. Appreciate the opportunity and as I said, I know you're going through similar and about Richie and. I it's great to do doing what you're doing to get the word out there and how to help and all that. So with Zach have we have three boys. Zach is our middle son and his older brother Nick, and then our younger son Christopher. And our boys as probably your family is really pretty much our life. You know, we, everything we did, as little boys growing you. Surrounded these guys. I did a lot of coaching and they were involved in a lot of sports and all that stuff, so we're very close family a lot of people.

And really we never had any behavioral issues or anything with any of the boys. You know, growing up, my wife is Jennifer and we've been married. 40 years in August. So we've been married a long time,

Congratulations.

thank you. So Zach our boys went to Bishop Ard High School here in Indianapolis. Zach was a very good football player at Bishop Shard they won a couple of state football championships and, we never had any, he never had any issues or anything, through high school. And then, went to Ball State University. For college. And a lot of his some of his teammates from ARD went there and then he was, you know, everything was great.

And his first year had the average all good. then the second year there, of the guys he played high school football with father had back surgery. And when his son was home he grabbed some Oxycontin that was in his medicine cabinet and brought it back to Ball State. So we all sometimes make bad choices in college.

You know, that's not alone. So he brought this back to school. And so the kids, got into it, tried it. And what we come to know about addiction now is that if you have an addictive gene inside you, it's a whole different ballgame. And so Zach tried it. Some of the other kids tried it and unfortunately, Zach had that addictive gene inside him, and so did his friend who brought it to college. Ended up, he was one pill and just really couldn't get around it. I'll never forget the phone call. He called Jenny and I from Ball State in tears saying, Hey, Jeff brought this to school. I tried it. I can't get, I can't get over it. And we knew nothing about any drugs or anything like that, so we were just proud of him for calling us. And so we said, Zach we'll figure it out together. We'll get a plan, find a place where you can go, all that. So that's how that started. And this, he passed away. It'll be this September, eight years ago. So this all, and he was 27 when he passed away. So this all started probably when he was, his sophomore year of of And it was just a process, for him. Tried a lot of different things. Went to a lot of different treatment centers. It's very tough to get around it. And he got through a lot of it. And end up, he had a good friend who lived out in California, out in Santa Cruz, California. Zach. Zach being a really good athlete he wanted to learn how to surf. And so he moved out to ca, he moved out to California, at a shirt, a surf shop, fulfilled that goal of learning to surf, working at a surf shop. And he was doing pretty good out there. was in a program out there, was doing good. I'm making a long story, a little bit shorter 'cause I'm this last a few years. And then he had to have his consoles out. And then for a person going through some addiction problems with the pain for a 27-year-old, getting their tonsils out, it's a difficult, it's pretty difficult to do. So when he, after that happened, he had a relapse and we got him back in, in a treatment center, and then he had been to this treatment center before and had a lot of success there. But this time around it was a little different for him, was having a difficult time with it, telling Jenny and I he ended up, he got through that. And the sad thing about it is he, you know, we were trying to figure out what the best path for him he was having, getting, kind of getting back into a bad place. So were gonna have him just come home. And so we had a, we had a. We talked to him the day before he passed away. He was coming home. The day started.

We, we couldn't get ahold of him. He was, he's actually was at a hotel room just waiting to, you know, get to the airport and come home. Somebody had given him some heroin, had fentanyl in it, and he took that and that's what took his life. And the hardest thing for Jenny and I and our whole family, our boys. He was coming home the next day. So

Yeah.

I mean, it, I, it's hard to talk about. It brings back a lot, a lot here, but so, you know, 27 years old he never owed o had an overdose before. This is the first time this ever happened. Didn't know if Fentanyl was in what he was taking and he never did make it home.

So that's kind of a. A short version of a few years, what happened with him. And that's how it kind of started. So when this happened to Zach, it's been, pretty devastating, for our family since that time. And so we decided at that time we would start a foundation in his honor. it's called the Zach 43 Foundation, which was this football number. In high school and we wanted to honor him first and then help others, to avoid, what happened to us. So we've had this Zap 43 foundation since he passed away 2nd, 2017. So we've been doing that. We've had a lot of success, trying to help others. There's a big need out there. I mean, the. The drug crisis, the addiction crisis is in the news all the time, right? So we hear about the fentanyl and everything else. So we're making a dent in that. We have a couple really good partners here in Indianapolis, the Pathway House heart Rock is a house for pregnant moms and young kids that have been affected by this.

We do that that's what we kind of started doing after this happened to Zach, to honor him. So we've been doing that now, like I say, since this happened. And and then just trying to deal with it, on a day-to-day basis. And it's it's been more than difficult for us.

And and you can relate to it, Rick. So, as his father and as the, the head of our family here. I had to kind of keep going, you know, I mean, I, I couldn't crawl on a hole and not do anything. That's the last thing Zach would've wanted. You know, he would want us to, to move ahead. So I always kind of say, it's always raining out for us, but the sun does run through, so you know how our family's dealt with it.

Our oldest son, Nick we have two granddaughters. Lily is six, Nora is and a. Our daughter-in-law, Lauren, they're great family. They live five minutes from us and we watch the grand, we watch our grand girls every day, where Jenny mainly does, I'm still working, so that's been a big light for us having the girls. Then Christopher, our youngest in Colorado, his wife Erin, just found out a couple months ago, they're, they're pregnant for the first time. We're gonna have a grandson, so two girls. We had three boys, and now with the two girls, it's been awesome. Now we're gonna have a grandson. So we just, that's pretty recent for us. 

How have you like this is one of the things I find and I could relate to it myself as a father, you feel like you want to protect your family and I think you said you just kinda go through it and it took me quite a while to understand I really hadn't grieved. Like I needed to, you know, because you're always strong for them and you really tried to, I tried to change the dynamic of not thinking about what you lost, but the time that you had, you know, with your son.

And maybe just describe some of the things that you personally ha have worked through, or if you're still, you know, it never goes away as we know, but maybe things that you're still working on for yourself. That. Might be of interest to others, to especially fathers. In particular, we sometimes have struggle expressing that emotion and getting that out.

I.

I mean, it's all such true stuff, Rick. So first and foremost for me it was my faith. You know, that's enabled me to deal with this and help my family, you know, help them keep everybody together. And then, you know, who's helping me the most is Zach. I I, I tell people that all the time because I'm sure it's the same with Richie with you.

Yep,

So I've had a cold, so I've got, I have a

it's okay.

My throat gets a little dry, but so I, we get signs from him all the time, you know, so, they call him God winks and I'm sure you probably have your signs as well. So,

Yep.

um, you know, when, at his, at his funeral, I can tell you. I wasn't sure how I was gonna do that. You know, get up there and talk. We had a, we had that church. It's a Holy Spirit on the, and geist on the it's a big church. You wouldn't believe the amount of people I think we had, I think there was over a thousand people. I just, it was, you know, he, he touched a lot of people, you know. everybody loves Zach.

Zach, i've told, I told you what happened to him, but as far as his, you know, he is a friend to everybody. Just a great young man would give you the shirt off his back just, you know, had upteam so many friends. And so at his funeral it mean it was, I mean, there was so many people and a lot of it, I don't, I don't really remember some of it.

You know, you pro and you can probably relate, but like that and where we live at we have so many friends and in our, in our area and neighbors and all of our friends, he knew so many people. We had people at our house all the time. Really, that community spirit helped us so much. But his funeral was on a Monday and, I just remember that morning. Think I, I don't know how I'm going to really do this talking 'cause we're so close and I don't wanna get emotional right now, but it was, I just thought I, I've gotta do it, but I'm not sure how. So we were getting ready to, we were leaving for the funeral and we had it, it's trash day on that Monday, and so we had extra trash.

Everybody had been in our house and so I had to take, take a couple bags of trash down to my neighbors. And when I was walking down to my neighbor's next door, this cardinal came flying right at my head, right at me. I'm not, I'm not, not kidding you right at me. came within, you know, a foot or foot, you know, whatever.

And then just flew away. And I said, okay. I can do it now, Zach. So. So, um.

I can relate to that because Richie, we associated a cardinal with him. We have one on his grave site and see the same thing, like there's just different times that a cardinal will show up that you just go, okay, I. I know you're okay.

Well, I said, right then, I said, now I, I can do this now. You know, I, I, it was a whole different feeling inside me. 'cause I knew he was with me. So I, I did it then I said it when I was talking at the funeral, I said, well. And Father Phil was the priest there and Father Dan, I'm really close with.

And, and I said something to them, I said, you know, God's promise from my faith is I'm gonna see Zach again. You know? And I go, am I, am I right? Father Phil, father Dan. They both like, nod their heads. I said, that's, so that's, that's what's getting me through. Knowing he is really him, you know? 'cause he gives me just signs all the time.

We see number 43 all the time. I mean, you know, I. Whenever I see, you know, if it's 8 43, 9, 4, whatever time it, it happens a lot. So we'll do a screenshot all the time with a 43 in it. So, I'm not alone. And I tell people all the time, I still have three sons, one's in heaven, other two are here. But the, all these signs or godwins, however you wanna call, you know, you can relate. You know, they don't, it doesn't make it easier, but it gives us hope, you know. And so, Rick, that's how, I mean that's, you know, there's just so much of that that helps help me tremendously. And, and, you know, and then the same signs, Nick Christopher, our daughter-in-laws. you know, same thing, you know, so, um, it, it, you know, and it, for me, I got a really busy job.

I know you do too. So that, that helps, you know, being so busy with my work and so with Jenny it's probably, I would say it, it's, it, it's probably been been very hard for her. It's been hard for all of us. But when we started the foundation, I knew I wanted to do it first, or we wanted to do it first to honor him, but I knew it would be good for Jenny, you know, to give her, I mentioned the Heart Rock and I mentioned Pathway House, so she's kind of the spearhead for our foundation, you know, so she's the one doing so much work there and that's, that's been helpful I think, for her, you know, so, but. But people say no, well, time heals. Well, in our case, it, it doesn't get easier, you know, you know, I mean, and that it would be, I'd be lying to say that it does, you know, but, but I just get closer to him every day and I, sometimes I say, Zach, one more day, you know, I'm not the youngest guy, so, you know, I'm not, you know, wishing my life away, but I'll see him again. And so I hope that answers your question. That's how I.

Yeah, I think what you get is, they say it gets easier over time. It doesn't get easier. You just manage it differently. And I know for us, I. Like I, I was in Egypt not too long ago and Richie was really into history. I'm going through at one of these pyramids climbing up, and then I'm thinking, what would he ask?

He would ask all these different questions and it's times like that, I'm sure you do with Zach, that you know, how would I have interacted with him in this, you know, you might go to a sporting event or something like that. And you know, we've tried to honor him. At like birthday parties and family events and things like that.

And I, I'm assuming that you guys probably do the same thing, talk about him at all those kind of events. Not in the past tense, but almost like a present, like, you know, he's still very much part of the family, just not there with you.

Yeah, there, there's, you're exactly right. I mean, he as I mentioned his funeral, he has, he had so many friends, and the good thing, the, and his, his close friends still think of him often, you know, and we on his birthday, which is October 24th, we have a gathering in our house. A bunch of his

Hmm.

will come by. He loved Jenny, makes a really good homemade pop pie, made the special dessert. The Zach, like and the boys, you know, all these, the football players from start boys, his group would come over and eat pop pies and so she makes pop pies. The boys come over and we celebrate Zach, you know, on his birthday every year.

And, and his, his best friend you know, from who was touching for us, this has probably been, probably been four years ago now. He got married he had one extra groomsman. He didn't, there was, you know, he, the gals and he'd save that place for Zach.

That's awesome.

that's another hard thing to talk about because we didn't

Yeah.

You know, we go to this wedding and, kind of tells us why he did that. And so that really meant a lot to me and Jenny and, and Christopher and Nick as well. So, but, so, yep. So

it sounds like you guys had a really big support system. I, we did. You know, we went through a cancer, so it was a long period of time, but just some people that were incredible how they share their time and that gift, something not easy for me to do. Much more time oriented and you know, it's something I've looked back and really learned.

Those people meant so much to you. You, you saw 'em at the time, but even in retrospect like. How much they supported you and to us that was really important going through it. And you might talk about, I know you mentioned a lot of the people that were around, but like, just some of the support system you had you know, going through it and, and even since then, I.

Yeah. You know, I, that's a good question. And you know, they always say Indianapolis is like a big small town, you know, you know, so we've got such a small town feeling, feeling, so we actually live out in the geist area and, um, we just, like I said, when this happened to Zach, um, you know, it was all like on a, on a Saturday and. I mean, for the whole week we had people at our house bringing us food and this, so it, it helps so much, you know, besides our immediate family, but just so many friends, the people I work with, our company here, you know, so, you know, and what we like is, and sometimes people will say like they, they'll bring up Zach and then some, somebody might say to me like, well. It doesn't hurt. I hope it doesn't bother you. If I bring, if I bring him up, I say absolutely. It's the

Yeah.

You know, we love, we love, you know, for you to bring up Zach and, and so we have so many people that ask about our foundation. How are we doing? Um, you know, and I, in my business, I have a good set of clients and, and they're kind of the same way, you know, so we continue to get good support and I, I hope that's the same for you, right?

With your, with

Oh yeah.

and, uh, it does help, right? I mean, 'cause you're,

Yep.

an island by ourselves. Other people have gone through. Like what, what we're going through, you know, the addiction thing is that, has just been, and I think our help with our foundation has helped us because we are helping others. Matter of fact, Jenny is out today. Part of a, there's a, a recovery home here in Indianapolis called Pathway House. Jim Mur say you might have heard a pathway donated half a million dollars to him a few years ago. So. They're, they're really a great facility because what happens with addiction is that like, you know, you can. people through the initial 30, 60 days, whatever. But what do you do afterwards? So

Yep.

so hard for people that have that struggle with addiction and what the Pathway House does, it gives, uh, and gal different levels of living, you know, so they get to like level one where they're really monitoring and all meetings.

And then once they get to level four or five, that's what SA donated the money for, for more housing. So they, they live on their own, they're working they're still accountable. So we, we have, part of our foundation is it's, and Jenny thought of this, it's called Welcome Home. so when, when a, when a young man or young girl gets to a certain level with Pathway House, they have, they get an apartment, you know, so they have to work. They don't have to pay very much for it. But it's not furnished very well. And they're, they don't have like towels and different things that, you know, they would need. So what we do, we call it welcome home. So we'll go in and you know, give 'em the towel, the kitchen supplies, all these kind of things. And matter of fact, there was a young a young mom, I just found this out today, ironically, that at the Heart Rock is a, is a place for the, for the women. It's in broad ripple. And, uh, some things going on with her and she's gonna be moving into a, a facility at Pathway House and Jenny's out right now getting stuff for them.

So that, that's helpful to us helping others, you know,

Oh.

this addiction thing is it, it's. Like I mentioned when I started this, you know, if you have an addictive gene inside you, it's a whole different ball game, you know? Um, like I said, some of Zach's friends could dabble in things and they didn't get addicted, but Zach and his friend ended up doing that, so he didn't know he had an addictive gene.

You know, it just happened. And it, it, once it gets a whole, it's just like a disease. It's, it's no different, you know, so, um, medically it's, it's truly a disease and, uh, it's overcomeable but it's difficult and it takes a lot of work and a lot of support for, for a young person to, or any person really, for that matter, to get through it.

Well, I know we talked, uh, before I, my son had been addicted to Oxy because of the cancer, and he knew he was addicted to it. And for him he would get prescriptions, so he knew he was getting it from, but you know, we talked, uh, before about. Zach would had no idea Fentanyl was in that. And that's one of the things that even compounds this more.

And we talked about April Babcock, who, you know, she has a, a thing called lost voices of Fentanyl that they have, kids have no idea what they're taking, you know, staying up for an exam. They might think they're taking an Adderall and it's laced with fentanyl. And uh, you know, so on top of the addiction, that's another component that's, uh, you know, really.

Very difficult to deal with that you're, you're trying to stop the addiction and at the same time, not even sure what kind of drugs they're that, that they don't know what they're taking. So I know I really appreciate the work you guys are doing because you know that even if somebody's addicted, they shouldn't lose their life for it.

Uh, especially with the, those illegal drugs like that.

Yeah. That, that's what was so hard with losing Zach is that, I mean, I mean, I mean, everything was hard with it, but, but the fact that he never had an overdose like so you hear these stories, people overdose like 10 times or 15,

Right.

happened to him. And then one time he gets, you know, something with, you know, fentanyl in it and it takes his life so. We think is that, that's just not fair, you know? I mean, and he was

Yeah.

the next day, so I just remember, I still remember the night before, it was a, it was a Friday night talking to him. He was so excited to come home. we'd been through some places out in California, I mentioned, you know, getting his tonsils out and kind of put him, you know, set him back and we said, look, Zach, let's just come home. We'll get it figured out. He, and he wanted to, and he goes, I

Yeah.

idea. then, so we're sitting there waiting for him the next day, and this happens to him. So. I mean, just like a double whammy to us because we were just, we were just waiting for him to come home. And then the next, and then, you know, he's not, he's not answering his phone.

We started getting scared and, you know, one thing led to the other. So it was a nightmare of, of a night for us. And, uh, but anyway. He is, uh, you know, we, we say, you know, we know he is in a better place, you know, now, you know, um, it's, it's hard to think like that sometimes, but, no, it's true. And you know, like I said, he's with me every day.

Yeah.

I can tell you, assure you that. So

How can people help your foundation? I know you have a website if you wanna. Talk about that of ways that they could, you know, help other people not to experience this if possible.

Yeah, I mean, you know, our website, it's Zac 43 Foundation. You know, you can Google Zap 43 Foundation. You would, you would find it. So, and that's, that's great. Or, you know, our, our, our contact information is in there. Somebody could always reach out to me, you know, our emails and all that, or is right in there.

So appreciate you saying that, but. So, yeah, that's, it's, it's, it's been, you know, that's, that's been a help. But like I said, our, our biggest help is still, is Zach being with us every day and, and our family is still super, super close. Our youngest son lives in Fort Collins, Colorado, so, you know, that's, you know, he's not right. Our other, our oldest one is five minutes away, so

Yeah.

you have a big family, so I'm sure that's, you know, you guys are, that, that

Those grandkids are great.

The grandkids. The grandkids are, are really good. So yeah, we yeah, so I just, there's so many, I mean, I could talk forever about the signs and I think I'll share one other, one other sign if you don't, if you have, if you have, if you don't

Yeah, no, go ahead.

know, I told you about the Cardinal and. And so, um, at his funeral, there's uh, Zach liked the Lumineers, you know, the, the band Lumineers. And they have, they have a song called This Must Be The Place. And so, um, Zach loved that song, and so it has some meaning to that song. This must be the place, so you'd have to listen to it. you would get it listening to it.

But, we, we played that at his funeral, you know, that song. And so, so this must be the place is another thing. Like we see a lot and, you know, the, you know, the 43 and the different signs and the cardinals and hawks and all these special, you know, beings that, that really help us. But so, um, this been two years ago, I think, I love, I love college football. So, you know, I mentioned Zach being a really good football player, two time, you know, state champion. Our old other Nick was the state champion football player too. And then Christopher, all the boys, good athletes. And so I love college football and I always wanted to go to the Army Navy game. So, um, it's been on my bucket list. And so my dad was in World War ii. He was at the Battle of the Bulge, you know, so he would write in it. He passed away when I was eight, so I never really heard about it, but he got to go to Purdue and the GI Bill and anyway, so military and, and all that honor has meant a lot to our family, so going to that game was pretty special.

So, so Jenny surprised me for Christmas and got me and I. Nick and Christopher tickets to go to that game. And so I couldn't believe it, you know, and so we had really good seats too. So, so the three of us drive out there it, I, it was very special. And then, so Nick had found that Philly, it was in Philadelphia and he had found a condo place to stay at.

There was a lot of choices. It was a really cool place. so we got the place, you know, Friday night games on Saturday. We get out, we go up, there's an elevator that goes up to our room, you know, and so we, we get up, we get in the elevator, elevator doors open up, right where our, where our floor is.

There's a, there's a, uh, on the wall, there's a picture, it said, this must be the place. So another emotional moment for me because, uh, the three of us just, just embraced and, um, so. So he was there with us that day too. So that, that was, was really, really a special, you know, you know, just what's the, the chances, you know, these, you know, they, they're god winks, but they don't happen by circumstance.

You know? I

Yeah.

what's the chances of us, you know, finding that room, that picture, you know? It just, it meant a lot, you know? So I just wanted to share that, that as well. So

and those emotional things like that are, they're not negative. They feel. At least, at least what I run into, that kind, those kind of situations. They're emotional, but they're positive. They, they just make you feel so much closer to your child. I don't know if you experienced the same thing,

Yep, absolutely. And if, and the three of us being there the first thing we did was call, call Jenny. Call, call his mom. And, you know, say you would not believe what we just witnessed. And so, these things happened and, and nobody's surprised, you

right.

but it just reaffirmed that, you know, Zach being with us and. And everything. So, but so yeah, we, like I said, records as with you, I mean, it's always raining a little bit in our lives you know, but sun breaks through you know, we, we, we gotta be there for each other, like you said, the grandkids, I mean,

Yep.

for us. You know, so it's what Zach would want.

I know that's what Richie

Yep.

with you, you know, so,

I, I have to ask, who are you a fan of in football?

So, um, I, I played football at Butler, but that was not, you know, but I'm, I'm more of a Purdue fan 'cause I grew up

Okay.

dad going there and then and actually I, uh, I've got a good friend in Oxford, Mississippi, so I go down to a lot of Ole Miss games. So kind of an Ole Miss fan, you know,

Yeah.

boys have, have been there as well. I don't, you know. So what about you? Where, where, where are you?

Notre Dame and Richie, I got to take him and all my kids. I'd spend a day with them going up to games and stuff like that. Uh,

wow.

yeah, especially, you know, looking back at pictures, doing the touchdown Jesus, uh, things. And so my uncle, uh, played at Butler and, uh, one of my, one of the guys that I played with in, uh, high school played there as well, so,

Okay. it's funny you mentioned Notre Dame because I mentioned my Ole Miss friend. Well, his bucket list was to go to Notre Dame game, 

Yeah.

Dame too. Right? So, so Jim I'll, okay, Jim, we got him up to, I got tickets and I. And so this is another great story 'cause me and our youngest, Christopher, I can't, he didn't go, but Nick and Zach, uh, myself, we took Jim to Notre Dame game.

And uh, and I just remember walking in the church, you know, the, you know how special it

Oh yes.

I mean,

Yep.

I, I still, I got chills walking in there and we got to spend that. It was, you know, with Zach and it was a special, and our friend, he, never forget it, you know, he he just, he's Mr. Ole Miss.

He's, he is been written up in magazines down in the Hox Scout Lake Museum at his house, but his tie, his trip to to the Notre Dame game. And then I took him over to Butler to Hinkle Field House because he likes the movie Hoosiers.

I am.

uh, so I took him in there and, and, uh, but, but yeah, Notre Dame's a special, a special, special place.

So. No doubt about it.

Well, I really appreciate you taking the time, uh, to share and you know, again, just thank you for your time. I.

Well, I appreciate it. I, I just want to, one, one last thing I'll say is that I almost every day I listen, I work out still a lot, even though I'm an older guy, still try to ride my bike. And Zach and I, um, we did the, the ride across Indiana, it's called the Rain Ride. It's 160 miles from, Richmond, Indiana.

Uh, I mean up from Pire Haute to Richmond. Okay. And so we, we did that back in oh four together. So I've done that ride a couple, couple times, uh, for a fundraiser for our foundation. So, um, so we, we were into biking. Zach was into that, but so I, when I work out or whatever, I. There's a Mumford and Sun, sun song, I'm telling you.

'cause you know, you might like, it's called Guiding Light and, uh, um, I listen to it pretty much every day, and the main words to it is you know, I had it all on the line. Could not just sit with folded hands and, and go blind, you know? Um, and then it goes on to say, 'cause even when things when there's no star in sight, will always be my guiding light. So I, those are those words that are in that song. And, and I, I listen to him almost every day when I'm, when I'm working out. I kind of in my workout with listening to that. So, no, he's, he always is my guiding light. So I'm sharing that with you because. You know, I know you kind of feel the same way,

Oh yeah. Appreciate that. Well, thank you again. We're sorry for your loss and that we have to have a conversation and meet like this, but, uh.

You know, you'll certainly be in our thoughts and prayers.

Well, same with you Rick. Uh, you know, and let's maybe stay in touch and, you know, I'd like to, maybe we could meet for, you know, lunch or something sometime. I, I would enjoy doing that. So

No, that sounds great.

all.

Okay. Thank you. Okay.