Power of being present

 The power of being present. John Newton the Care Pastor of Northview Church talks about how important it is to be present for a parent in time of grief. John offers some practical steps for dealing with long term grief. It is important to understand that grief from the loss of a child is normal and will last a lifetime. John shared the importance of utilizing resources that can help better understand grief and how to manage it. John provided a list of resources for parents dealing with grief. 

Resources for parents who have lost a child

Focus on the Family – Offers free counseling and a network of Christian counselors for ongoing support.

Ian’s Place – Provides a safe space with support groups, bible studies, and resources for parents grieving loss, including loss to addiction.

Red Bird Ministries – Systematically guides families through the trauma of child loss (miscarriage, still birth, etc.) with faith-based support.

Umbrella Ministries – A network of mothers supporting other mothers through mentoring, care groups, and retreats.

The Compassionate Friends – A large well-regarded organization offering support for families grieving a child’s death.

SHARE (Pregnancy & Infant loss support) – Offers support for loss from miscarriage, stillbirth, or early infant death, with faith-based materials.

M.E.N.D. (Mommies Enduring Neonatal Death) – A Christian non-profit reaching out to families who have suffered the loss of a baby through miscarriage, stillbirth, or early infant death.

GriefShare – A network of thousands of local support groups hosted by churches. They offer a 13-week seminar/support group featuring videos from experts and small group discussions.

Association of Certified Biblical Counselors – Provides a directory to find certified biblical counselors who focus on scripture-based guidance for deep grief.

Book Recommendations
Empty Arms
An Empty Cradle
A Full Heart
I’ll Hold you in Heaven
Choosing to see
Grieving the Child I Never Knew
Safe in the Arms of God
I will Carry You
A Grace Disguised

Transcript

 John Newton and John is the care pastor at our church. And this is the first interview we're doing with someone who, uh, provides support for, uh, families that are going through these experiences. And so John's been willing to kinda share his experience and, uh, talk a little bit about how he got into this profession.

And then we'll go through a few questions. So if you wanna just kind of give us, uh, your background and introduce yourself. Sure. Well, again, my name's John Newton. I'm the care pastor for Northview Church here. I've been, uh, the care pastor for about three and a half years. Rick, uh, I've been a pastor since 1979.

And so, uh, that's, if I get that right, that's about 47 years. Uh, that's when I graduated high school. Is that right? Oh, well, in fact, I'm retiring in March. Oh, okay. So this, this may be my last interview before I retire. You never know. Um, I pastored in, uh, northern Indiana. I pastored in, uh, grand Rapids, Michigan.

I planted a church in, uh, Centerville, Ohio. I worked for six years with our national church agency. Um, I was their, uh, national Church Health and Growth advisor. And then I, I thought I retired back in 2016. Uh, but it didn't quite work out that way and. And I've been serving the church, uh, in different ways.

The Northview Church for the last eight years. Oh, that's great. Yeah. You didn't pick any places that were warm. It seems like you, uh, you didn't plan that out too well. I didn't work that out well, so it, um, my wife's family was from Ohio, the Youngstown area, and so I think being North helped her live. Yeah.

Okay. So, um, just kind of talk about when a family reaches out to you. Um, you know, in particular we're talking about. Uh, parents that have lost a child. Kinda what goes through your mind and, uh, how you can support them. Sure. And kind of just, uh, maybe walk us through what that, from your perspective, uh, what's that, what that's like?

Well, it's interesting. The first funeral that I did, I was 21 years old and it was a stillborn baby, so that. That was kind of getting my feet wet with family and, and their hurt and pain. And uh, it's interesting that last night, uh, I actually was on the phone with a father whose son passed away. Hmm. Uh, the son was 44 years old.

So, uh, the same grief, it doesn't matter, right? It doesn't matter how old or young, uh, if it's our child. Um, I think the grief is just so deep. Um, when I'm talking with family, you want, you want to feel for them, but there's just no way I can know the pain of that. I have four children myself. Um, fortunately I haven't lost any of my kids, but it would be, it would be unsure the hardest thing I would ever go through to do that.

So my heart really goes out to families that have lost a child. And maybe go through, I, I know again, we're, we have a strong faith. Mm-hmm. So that's something that you really can lean on through a time like this. Again, it doesn't bring your child back or anything, but I'm sure you've had parents that you've dealt with that maybe that faith was not the same.

Yes. Or they don't know where their child was at. Like, uh, is there a different kind of comforting or, uh, scenario you go through with that? So, for me, Rick, um. My goal is to minister to the family as a pastor. And I always recognize that there are some families, like you say, that are of strong faith. And when you walk in, uh, they lean into that.

They lean into, they know where their child is, they lean into the hope of heaven. They lean into the fact that this is not the end for them, that, uh, they'll be able to see their child another day. And then for other families I've walked in where they don't have that hope And, um, my goal is to give them comfort.

My goal is to talk about the hope of heaven. You know, I wish I could guarantee everybody I right heaven. Uh, unfortunately, that's, uh, for a, for a child that's old enough to know right and wrong and make those kind of decisions, that's their decision that they have to make. Some, sometimes it's a little easier conversation.

If it's a young child that I, that we would say in the church, they're not beyond the age of accountability. Uh, then I don't, I don't believe there's a question, right? I think they're going to be in heaven. The stillborn baby, um, the baby that's born, that dies after, you know they're born because of some complications.

A child that. If just had an accident, uh, at eight years old or, you know, young like that, um, I think God holds him in his hands. I think it's easy to comfort. Um, when they get a little bit older and they've, uh, made their own choices and gone their own way, that becomes a little more difficult. Yeah. Now, when you minister the family, I know primarily we're talking about parents that have lost children.

But I know how much my son, when he passed away, his siblings were affected by it. Yeah. And sometimes that kind of can get, I don't know, lost in maybe the, the care conversations. 'cause you know, again, it's, it's a little bit different with a parent, but mm-hmm. Um, have you run into experiences where you found, like the children they didn't quite know all know how to talk to each other about, you know, what they were going through?

Yeah. Y for sure. And I, I, I don't think there's necessarily a right way or a wrong way. Um, for us as pastors and even for us as caring people, we in our room, we want to feel the pain that they're going through. We want to honor the loss. Um, I think it's important not to give Pat petty answers, but just to let them grieve and ask their questions and try to comfort where we can.

I think a danger is when we. Try to give those answers and they're just not great answers. Yeah. They just don't bring comfort. You know, I've heard, oh, I, I've heard people say, oh, God just needed another angel in heaven, which just tugs at my heart when they say that. That makes it seem like God made this decision and called this person home, which makes God, you know, this, God that stands above and I'm, and he's making decisions I may take out this person or not this person.

It's just very uncomfortable and painful. But, uh, so I lean into God's care, God's love for them, God's peace, the presence of God in our lives. For some families where kids may struggle, um, I think it's, it's really important to have conversation with them, to sit if there's an opportunity and let them talk.

Uh, there are grief counselors available that, uh. Uh, you can find those. There are opportunities for grief help, uh, with, uh, things like grief share and things that we have at the church, right? Those are more I would lean into for older adults who've lost family members or have lost children that they deal with that in that way.

But I think for children, it's really important just to get 'em to talk and see what they're feeling. I, I know for me, we had nine years. To know that this was an end of life cancer. Like that, it was eventually, that was where you, you got to, but even the first three to four years after my son passed, having all those resources, you still didn't quite connect to it like it was, um, you know, you internalized things, you dive into work.

You, you don't have those conversations with kids. You don't even sometimes look at your own. Um, feelings that you need to, to deal with. Mm-hmm. After, uh, like, you know, one, one of the things we found were so many people that were there for us going through that and, you know, but when you get a month out or so, that really starts to kind of diminish and not with any negative intent or no, it's just that it's kind of life goes on.

And so maybe, um. Uh, just speak to things that you've seen that parents that have dealt with it well. Like what has happened over that progression of time. Again, not diminishing their feelings, but it's kind of how you address it. Like, again, for me, at first it was, yeah, I just want to ignore it. Not not ignore it, but do things to not Yeah.

Uh. Uh, address it. And again, you didn't really know that's what you were doing until you kinda look back Yeah. With the distance of time. But maybe share some parents you've seen that have really handled it as well as could be expected, like with their family and their kids and things like that. If you have any.

I think I would say everybody handles grief different. Um, if you're, if you're looking for some pattern that is true for everybody, I don't think you're gonna find that. Uh, there are some people, um, and who are people of faith who lean into it and trust God and address it and talk about it, and they find comfort and peace.

And there are some people who have faith who aren't able to do that, who believed in God and believe in heaven and believe in hope, and, but there's just something in them that struggles with even being able to talk about it or face it. Maybe they feel God's let them down. Maybe they feel God turned their back on 'em.

I don't know. So there's some Christian people even within the church that handle it very different. Uh, some, some will lean into it and as I said, find peace and some will struggle for years. Yeah. Um, I can give an example of that. So, and this is, this actually comes from my father's ministry and, and my, my youth.

But, uh. Okay. My father was a pastor. Uh, he pastored a, he was an associate pastor in St. Louis, and he took a youth group to, uh, lake of the Ozarks. Okay. We had a campground on Lake of the Ozarks. Took a youth group there. They spent the week there. One of the boys in the group drown while they were swimming in the lake, and he had to go back and tell the family that their, I think a 16-year-old boy drowned.

Terrible thing to have to do. Yeah. And, and. And it wa my father talked about how hard that was, but the thing that was the most difficult was this family. They happened to be a Christian family, uh, but they turned their back on God. They blamed the church, they blamed him, and they, uh, resented everything that happened.

They never came to a place of peace. Yeah, I don't resent them for that. That's the pain of losing a child. Right. And we all are gonna react different. Um, when I was 16, um, my father's pastoring in Illinois and we did a ski trip to a lake. And on that ski trip, a 15-year-old friend of ours drown. Hmm. So again, my father, as the pastor, had to go to a family and tell them their child.

Drown twice in just a short time, terrible thing. And, uh, this family was not a Christian family. They didn't attend the church. The girl just happened to attend our youth group. This family embraced God and instead of turning away, turned their hearts toward God and they found a great deal of peace. And they became Christians through this and actually became leaders in the church.

So it's, it's just an example of how different people handle Yeah. Grief. There's no right way, there's no wrong way. It just hurts. It's painful. Um, I, I'm involved in grief share in the church and we see people coming in. Uh, some have lost family members within just, um, a few weeks and they want to talk about it and face it.

Yeah. And then we have some that lost family members 20 years ago, and they're just now saying they want to talk about it and face it. Yeah. So I think to the main thing is be sensitive to the people. Listen, get a feel for where they're at. Don't try to be the answer person. Uh, just be with people and, and try to get a feel for what their needs are at the time.

And sometimes it won't be till years later that they really want to face it and sometimes they want to face it right now and just kind of know that, well, I've gotten emails from people that have listened to the podcasts that are like realizing that they're not alone because I think that's one of the things that happens with that grief.

You internalize it even though, you know other people have lost kids and things like that. Yeah. But. You know, it's very hard to share that and, uh, you know, it's, it's a tough subject to talk about. Yeah. Well, we think we're the only ones that have been through this. Yeah. I mean, for some reason there's that lie that can come into families that have had that kind of experience that no one else has gone through this, or, you know.

Yeah. And I think that's the heaviness of grief. Right. And, and why wouldn't we feel that way if we've lost a son or a daughter, uh, one of our children? So I, I think it would be normal to have some feelings that we can't explain and, uh, even resentments and anger. Yeah. But in time, I think we figure some of that out if there's opportunity.

Well, and I think again, maybe age of child may play into some, you know, as parents you have hopes and dreams for your kids. Yeah. And the life that they'll live in. Sometimes as they get older, they do that and sometimes they don't. But, you know, at certain ages, they're still. Growing and Yeah. You know, it's like, oh, it's not fair.

They didn't get a chance Yeah. At life. But, um, I think some of those feel, I, I understand what you're saying. I think some of those feelings are always gonna be there. Yeah. Whether our child was 16 or whether there's 60. Uh, there's some of that, there's something missed out. There's, I I just remember, I mean, flashback to, uh, my father-in-law when he passed away, he was, he had cancer.

He was 60 years old. We went to his funeral and here's his mother, uh, leaning over his casket and she's crying and she's saying, my little Sammy. Yeah. Well that's still her little boy. Yes. That's still her little boy. Doesn't matter how old. So I think a son is a son, a daughter's a daughter. Our child just it, they're a part of our heart.

And when they're gone, a part of our heart's gone. Right? Yeah. Doesn't matter how old. Did your dad talk about like so that, like that, and I don't know if you've had to do the same thing, but having to go to a parent and tell them that their child's passed away, that that would be pretty, would be really bad.

Very challenging. Yeah. I didn't know if, uh, yeah, he ever talked about that. Yeah, he talked about that. My dad was kind of quiet about some of those things and I, I think some of it had to do with his past where he was used to burying things. There were things in his past. In his family relationships with his father that were unhealthy.

And I think my father got used to burying some of his pain. Yeah. Uh, which is kind of a normal thing that we all do. Right. To some degree. Um, and so, yeah, I don't think he talked about that a lot. Uh, he didn't with me. Um, I've had some of the same experiences where, um, I've, I mean, I, I've. Been a chaplain at hospital.

There've been times I've been there when a child's died and I've had to go in and tell the parents. Um, there've been times when a parent has died, and I've had to tell the children of that. Um, even here at Northview, we had a, a horrible tragedy a few years ago where, uh, one of our high school kids, he was a swimmer for Carmel, and he was just driving to the school to early in the morning to, to, uh.

He practiced swimming in the pool and he had a wreck on his way and was killed and had a twin, I believe, if I remember right, a twin brother. And it was, I, I, I went just a few hours after it happened and met with the family. And it's just always a difficult thing. How, how is that easy for anybody, for them, or for somebody coming in to be sitting and planning a funeral for a, a young man that had his whole life.

Ahead of me. Do you see? And now like that experience, what is somewhat different from ours? We had mm-hmm. A number of years to plan for it. Right. But it doesn't make it any easier, like, 'cause you know that this child that you continue to bond with and love Yeah. And is eventually that's going to happen.

But you know, a parent that it just suddenly their child's taken away. Yeah. We had a long goodbye. Right. And to not even be able to say goodbye just in a split second, I would think would, uh, it's a different kind of grief. The long term effect is the same, but that, that short term might be a little different.

You're right. I, and I think with the long term, you probably thought through things. What do we wanna say? What conversations do we need to have? Maybe talk to them about their faith. You know, have all those con conversations you have. For a family like that, that loses, uh, a child to tragedy, to a quick tragedy, they're gonna look back at probably the onset things.

Yeah. Um, what didn't we talk about? What didn't we say? What didn't we do? Well, you look at that even when you have one that you've had all that time, there's still things you look and say, I wish I'd have done done a little different X or Y. Yeah. And I, I think that's fair to say, and it's fair to talk to people about the fact that.

That we will all have those kinds of thoughts and not to beat ourselves up over things that we didn't know. You can't know what you don't know. Right. You can't do what you don't know. And so, uh, many of us just did our best with our kids. Yeah. And even though now I have four kids and they're all healthy, and if you were to ask me, John, looking back, are are there some things you would've changed?

Even, even now? I would've said. Yeah. So everybody has those feelings, right? Um. It's just with the loss, I think you, you look deeper at some, there's a finality to it. Yeah. It's over. Yeah. Yeah. So if you were just, uh, giving people that are caregivers advice, like, or family members. 'cause I, I've had some people say to me things like, you know, there are, there are people with best intention over time.

Hey, just get over it. You gotta move on to what, right. Like, those are very tough Yeah. Things for people to hear and, and not really helpful. Yeah. Like, so. Looking at like a year, two years or beyond, like people that are in relationships with someone that's lost a child. And are there anything that you could suggest that they do or ways to help, um, a grieving parent over time, even though the grief may not be as apparent?

Yeah, for sure. For sure. To, to be a part of some kind of a grief therapy or that would be of, of help to anybody if they attended something like that. If you're a friend of someone who's going through that, um, I would say risk talking to them about their child, you know, even though it's been a few years risk saying, well, like my conversation last night, it happened to be with my brother-in-law whose son passed away.

Hmm. So my conversation last night with Rick was to say, or Rich was to say, um, uh, tell me about your son when he was a little boy. Tell me some stories. Yeah. Well, I think that's a comfort. Um, if somebody goes, well, I don't want to talk about it, then you've gotta honor that, right? And you, you'll say, well, you know, if there's a time that, that, uh, you might be more open to that.

I'd love to hear about your son. And so for, for Rich last night, uh, his son was older, but for me to ask him, um, tell me about him as a little boy. What do you remember? And he just started rattling off some stories. And you can imagine Yeah, just, you just start remembering things you didn't think about.

And some of them were silly things. Um, you know, like his son coming home in the middle of the night sneaking outta the house. Yeah. At 13 and their childhood teenage stuff. And, and back then you'd get all mad about it, but telling it now, he was laughing. Yeah. Even though his son had passed away, he was laughing about some of the stories.

'cause they were really big then. And now they just don't. So big so. I think, I think being with people too is really important. Um, if you know someone's going through a difficult time, don't feel like you have to say the right thing. Uh, don't, don't feel like you have to have that one comment that takes away their pain because you can't find it.

Right. It's nowhere. And so we've learned to, uh, just be with people, uh, sit with them, get a feel for what they're going through. If it's been a lot of years and they've still not dealt with it, maybe risk still asking them questions. Yeah. I know it's been 10 years since this has happened. How are you doing?

What are you feeling about it? Do you still think about it? Are there still, uh, are are there things that haunt you? Are there unsaid things? And just try to get people to talk about some of what they're feeling. A lot of healing, I believe comes through just sharing. Yeah, and talking. It lets things come out and.

So be a good listener. There's some people that are just phenomenal at being caregivers. I know when we were going through it, like when Rich was on hospice, yeah, there are people that would bring meals at certain times. They didn't force anything on you, but they, Hey, we're gonna, every such and such night, were bringing you a meal afterwards.

They've just taken us out, you know? Hey. Just come out for an evening. Not really discuss it, but just be there. Yeah. With you. Yeah. It's something I'm really trying to learn and lean into, because for me, I was much more, uh, type A, you know, driven. It doesn't come natural. Yeah. But well, you look back and you think these people really, they took time, effort to really just again what you're saying, be there with you.

Yeah. That made a big difference. It's, I had a, I had a professor when I was in college, uh, preparing for ministry. Hmm. And I would've only been, oh, 17 years old when I left home to go to college. So I was pretty young. Um, I had seen through my father what ministry was like, so I, I probably knew a lot just by experiencing it than a lot of people did.

But one of our professors, I remember this, his name was, uh, Harold Boyer. Old, old, wise pastor. Yeah. Teaching us young, young kids. Yeah. You know, and we were talking about funerals and he said, uh, he said they will, uh, they will not remember what you say unless you say something wrong and they'll remember it.

But he said, but they'll always remember that you were there. Yeah. Just that you were there. So, and I think that's important for us is think of, think of it more in presence and not in presentation. I'm like, I don't have to say the right thing. I don't have to solve their problem. Uh, just be there with them.

Yeah, yeah. If it's sitting with them. And I heard a story of an old, old man that had lost a friend and uh, he was grieving really deeply and he had another friend that came and he said, can I just sit with you? And they sat for a whole afternoon and didn't say any words. Yeah. They just sat together. Well, that's of comfort.

So I think just. Um, being wise enough to know when to talk and when not to talk. When to just be present and, and when to maybe not be present. Yeah. But just wise. Well, I'll tell you, my wife and I talked about you, you did my mother's funeral, uh, in November, and you never met her before. But the way you presented it, it was very comforting.

Like there was a number of people that, you know, uh. Said the same thing like they thought you may have known her really well. Now, again, I can't remember a thing you said, but it was, uh, you know, to your point, it was, it was very comforting, um, the way it was presented that, um, you know, it just made Well, I, I, that's a goal of mine if I'm gonna do a funeral service.

Um, I don't want to just get up and read scripture and, and preach a sermon and Right. It's not about me. It really is about this person and you've got a whole group of people who've lost someone they've loved. Yeah. And so I think it's more important to spend time talking about that person, by the way, you did really well get Honor Your Mom.

I remember some of that too. But again, we did remember all the Notre Dame stuff. Right, right. Um, a lot of it is it, it is. It, it is just being soft and caring for people and, and not trying to solve something for somebody that you can't solve. You can't, you can't take away someone's grief, but you can walk it through, walk through it with them.

Well, I really appreciate you taking the time and, uh, sharing your thoughts on it. And, um, again, we're trying to connect with parents that sometimes feel isolated and, you know, this is a way that they can listen to someone. Maybe share about things other people have gone through and, uh, without having to go out and actually interact with people.

Yeah. Like it, it maybe kind of can get the ball. Yeah. Rolling. So I really appreciate you taking the time. Well, you're welcome to welcome. Thanks for asking. I would really challenge families that if they are going through something to risk, just risk, risk talking and risk hurts. Sometimes we just keep burying it.

Yeah. Um, and, but there's so much help available. All you have to do is go online, and you probably shared some of this, there, there's, there's a list of books that you could find that would be helpful. There's a list of grief help, like grief share, focus on the family as wonderful opportunities. Right. Um, and so I, I would just challenge people.

Don't sit in your grief, at least admit it, and then start maybe trying to. Yeah. Talk about it. It, it doesn't diminish your child No. To, to deal with your grief. I mean, that's one thing I think that we had to recognize was that because he passed away, you can still have all these great family events. You can enjoy life mm-hmm.

And bring his memory along mm-hmm. With you. But it doesn't mean that, uh, you have to feel guilty because hey, things might be going well, or you're having these good experiences, you know? Right. Kind of to your point of the person talking about their son when they were a child, you share memories about them.

Right. And you know, you keep them alive that way in your heart, but they would, most of them would never want you to suffer for that. No. Or feel guilty like that. You can still, you know, love all the good things that are going on in life. Right. And the hard thing to remember is this is part of life. Yeah.

From the beginning of time. Families have had to say goodbye to family. Yeah. And from the beginning of time there were tragedies, if I remember the story, Kane killed Abel like from the beginning of time. Right. And so grief has always been a part of it, but from the beginning of time, God's presence and God's peace has also always been there for us.

Yep. And so to lean into it, to recognize how bad it hurts, but to also recognize that, um, I don't. I don't have to carry the weight of that all my life. I can still say it hurt. Um, and still move on and keep going. Well good. Thank you. Really appreciate that. You coming in, sharing.