Career Reset Guide

Navigating Career Transitions with Authenticity

• Michael Davio Simmonds

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Join us for an engaging exploration of career transitions, hosted by Michael Davio Simmonds. In this episode, we welcome Federico Petrelli, who shares his incredible journey from diplomat to spiritual guide. Federico's experiences illuminate the often-overlooked connections between our personal struggles—especially health challenges like dystonia—and our professional lives. Through insightful conversations, we delve into how discomfort in our careers can serve as a compass pointing us toward our authentic selves.

Federico provides valuable advice on tuning into the signals our bodies send us, urging us to listen rather than ignore these messages. The discussion also highlights how recognising the intertwined relationship of our mental and physical health can empower us to make meaningful career choices. Together, we explore concepts like individuation and surrender, inviting listeners to see life's challenges not as burdens but as powerful stepping stones to growth and transformation.

By embracing our authentic voices and honouring our unique journeys, we can align our professional paths with our true passions. Whether you are feeling lost in your career or seeking clarity, this episode offers insights and encouragement for anyone ready to embrace change. Tune in, connect with your interior self, and discover how to lead a more fulfilling life.

Michael:

I have to say that it's a real pleasure having the opportunity to chat with you. You and I have known each other for about I think it's exactly six months. I reached out to you for support and, despite all the work that we've been doing together, I actually feel as if I don't know that much about you. So I'm looking forward to maybe getting to know you a little bit better and particularly to, I think, learn a little bit more about the transition that you've been through. I was about to call it a career transition, but I think to give it that label underestimates the magnitude of the change that you've been through. Perhaps we can start, federico, with where you are currently. Could you tell us a little bit about what it is that you do? And as I'm asking you that question, I'm actually starting to smile, because it's difficult to put a simple label on what you do. So I'll hand that over to you to get your teeth into and we'll see where we go with this.

Federico:

Thank you, Michael. It's a pleasure for me as well to be here with you and don't tell the other clients, but sometimes I have my favorites. There are individuals with whom there is a special connection and I have been blessed to work with you and experience just how much depth and heart and intelligence you bring to the table bring to the table. So I'm excited for our conversation today. And you're right, it's a bit challenging to properly define what I do. I've thought about the what's Appropriate label for a while and I sometimes struggle.

Federico:

I think the best label I've found so far is Spiritual Guide.

Federico:

The best label I've found so far is spiritual guide.

Federico:

So, essentially, I help others connect with their interiors and with something larger can be accessed through those interiors right, something larger and loving and supportive that allows us to know that we are part of a loving reality.

Federico:

And this then expresses itself in a number of ways. One of them is that I help individuals who deal with neurological conditions such as dystonia and I help them on their journeys of healing dystonia. And I help them on their journeys of healing engaging neuroplasticity so that they can unlearn the disorders that are causing them suffering and learn new functional patterns Another way that this expresses itself is that I accompany individuals on their spiritual journeys, on their journeys of personal growth, regardless of what physical health ailments they're dealing with, and I teach meditation and I help people connect with their hearts. And perhaps another thing that is relevant, given the topic of our conversation today, is that, as of late, I'm working on an additional project that is looking at perhaps some of these questions at a broader, collective level and how we can use artificial intelligence to help us all collectively grow up and move away from extremism and war and so on.

Michael:

We will probably get into some of these details a little bit later. On dystonia, given the transition that you've been through personally, but maybe just a snapshot. Can you explain, for those people that aren't familiar with the condition, a little bit about the challenge with it.

Federico:

Yes, so dystonia is a disorder that affects the nervous system, and it really is a bit of an umbrella term that covers a variety of different symptoms, and sometimes it's something that seems-arises with other conditions, and what it manifests as is lots of tension, often that an individual has a hard time controlling involuntary movements, spasms, twitching and, in general, an inability to, and, in general, an inability to, properly connect with our muscles and control them, use them, inhabit them in a way that makes sense for us, and so there could be pain, sometimes there could be dysfunction. That shows up in a number of ways, and for some people it's visible. For some people it's not visible. For some people it's something that only shows up in certain situations and it's not a major impediment for their lives. For others it's something that is extremely debilitating, and certainly it was the case for me.

Michael:

So I think that's an important point to emphasize here is that the reason that you're in this field in the first place is because you yourself have had this condition. In your particular case, it was quite severe when I started my own journey with dystonia. Looking on the internet, there is no cure for this. Well, there's no cure except for Botox injections to cure the nerve responses in the neck. That's not a very convenient way to spend life. I think there are lots of complications with that, and yet you've been able to go way beyond that, which I think is quite incredible.

Federico:

Yeah, and we can all get beyond this, essentially, if we recognize that we have sovereignty, if we recognize that this is our body, our nervous system, and whatever dysfunctional pattern we are engaging in, we need to recognize that this is simply our nervous system's best attempt to keep us alive and in one piece, given the inputs that it has been exposed to. And so in Western medicine, this is not really a question that is asked. We can get into the why here, but Western medicine offers us Botox to mask the symptoms, just looking at the muscles that are spasming the most and trying to freeze them. And that is not really getting at the root cause of why we are dysregulated in this way in the nervous system in the first place, and why the dysregulation follows these peculiar patterns whereby we may have lots of tension on one side of the neck and not the other, why we may be overusing one side of the jaw and not the other, and so on and so forth.

Federico:

And so if we want to get better, we need to recognize first of all that this is a loop that we are stuck in right, so it's a form of maladaptive neuroplasticity, so we have learned to do something that doesn't serve our health and well-being, and we have learned to do this because of the injuries that we've been exposed to, the trauma that we've suffered, because of the toxicity that we carry within us, and a number of things right.

Federico:

All of these factors together lead the nervous system to organize itself in the way that we witness with dystonia, and if we want to undo this, we just need to recognize that we need to provide the nervous system with new inputs that are more functional. We need to learn to regulate the nervous system in such a way that we know what it's like to walk around in the world, connected to a feeling of safety, and there's a lot more that goes into this, of course, but you get the idea here. We need to move from the maladaptive neuroplasticity to an adaptive form of neuroplasticity where we learn a new way of being ourselves that better serves us.

Michael:

Right, a lot of the listeners don't suffer from dystonia. It's quite a rare condition to have, and yet there's a certain profoundness in what you say and, I think, a relatability when it comes to career transition, because in going through such a change in one's life, changing one's career to something more authentic, that inevitably raises certain concerns and fears. Can you help us to make the connection, perhaps, between what you've learned about dystonia and how some of that could be applied to concerns related to career transition?

Federico:

transition.

Federico:

So dystonia or any challenge that we experience where we notice that our body is speaking to us right, it's trying to communicate something is an opportunity to get to know ourselves at a deeper level, right?

Federico:

So whatever challenge we experience with our health, with our psyche, with our relationships, whenever we notice that there seems to be some that I mentioned earlier is an opportunity for us to say if I have been sticking to some sort of script and some sort of idea of what my life needs to look like idea of what my life needs to look like and if I am going through the motions just to follow this script. This challenge that I'm experiencing is an opportunity for me to look at the autopilot that I'm stuck on. It's an opportunity for me to listen to these signals that I'm receiving and begin to create change and begin to seek alignment, begin to seek a life that supports my health and well-being, a life where my sense of aliveness, my joy, my happiness are a natural byproduct of how I spend my days, rather than living most of my life doing something that makes me miserable and then carving out a little bit of time to try and repair the damage that is done during the central hours of the day. Does that make sense?

Michael:

That makes a lot of sense, and I think it's such an important point that you made a moment ago that there can be a tendency to feel that the discomfort that we're experiencing is something to be got rid of. It is something to be got out of the way and then I can follow my true path of authenticity. But what you're actually saying is no, it's not something that we got out of the way, but it is the way, and it's by working with this discomfort that we actually get to know ourselves on a deeper level.

Federico:

Well, in my own experience, I think, to open up more opportunity for for ourselves. Thank you. Let me just add real quick here that a lot of us are conditioned to believe that we need to somehow appear, come off a certain way. We need to make ourselves acceptable by being in some way other than we actually are. And the challenges that we experience and the ways in which you know what we can't follow the script that is set for us. Those are opportunities for us to tap into our authentic voice, and that is where we bring the most value right. That's where we begin to have something original to say. It's by really listening and working with the challenges that we experience, not by pretending like there is nothing to see and we're just robots on autopilot doing our routine. That is expected from us.

Michael:

I think I saw a statistic something like 60 or 70% of the behaviors that we adopt each day is just based on us being on autopilot. Taking ourselves off that autopilot, I think, then allows us to make a more conscious choice of do I choose to adopt this behavior because it serves the situation, or actually would it be more appropriate to adopt another behavior? So very interesting stuff, but let's go back to you and talking about you. So that's a little bit about what you do, and I'm glad that we touched on this because I think it gives a little bit of a flavor of the depths of your particular work, which makes you very original from my perspective. Maybe we can go to the starting point now. How would you describe your starting points in life in?

Federico:

life. Yeah, so I come from an interesting background. I was born and raised in Italy. My dad is Italian from a Catholic family and my mother is Syrian and Lebanese from a Jewish family, and I grew up kind of in between those two worlds. My parents were not together, as of you know, just a few years after I was born, and so I got to experience a bit of a schizophrenic upbringing there and I encountered a lot of prejudice for my Jewish identity. Also in my dad's family I encountered a lot of prejudice pretty much from everywhere for being gay.

Federico:

And all of this is relevant because I then alchemized some of this pain and some of this necessity really to advocate for myself into my first career, so to speak, which was in diplomacy, and I studied in Israel for undergrad and then in the United States Georgetown University for my master's, and I studied international affairs in both of those schools and I ended up working for a while at the Mission of Israel to the United Nations.

Federico:

So the Foreign Ministry of Israel has an office in New York City that serves as the embassy to the United Nations and I worked there for a little bit and there were a few other career projects, a few other jobs and internships and interesting things that I did in that world and I guess the expectation was that I would continue on that path, perhaps apply for the cadets course of the Foreign Ministry of Israel and become a career diplomat and for all kinds of reasons that we can get into if you want. I understood at some point that that wasn't for me, can get into if you want. I understood at some point that that wasn't for me. But really the big turning point was the dystonia and I'm sure we can get more in-depth into that as well.

Michael:

Hmm, that's fascinating. I'm just wondering what was the connection between you, your strengths, what?

Federico:

was the connection between you, your strengths, interests and pursuing that initially.

Federico:

Yeah, it was really, in retrospect, more about me alchemizing that trauma and trying to learn how to show up as who I am fully and so working with my Jewish identity and my connection to Israel and all of it and really learning to be able to explain that experience in ways that made sense for others, engage in dialogue with others in a way that was based on a genuine authenticity right, an ability to show up fully as who I am and contribute whatever good things there were to contribute out of my tradition and you know, particularly when it came to my work at the United Nations, when it came to Israel, so you know agricultural technologies and all kinds of beautiful things there that felt very healing right being able to represent my people in a way, and that felt very healing in contrast to all the anti-Semitism that I experienced growing up and looking back I am actually not a great diplomat.

Federico:

I don't have the talent that is necessary to forge lots of relationships and remember lots of people's names and remember the connections that people have with each other and so on it became clear to me that I didn't want to work in an environment that was so political, so to speak political, so to speak. I understood that what I was really called to do was to look inwards and learn truths about myself, about human nature, and connect with the love that is always here, right, and that this could take me really far. I, at the time, didn't have the language or the knowledge to be able to explain any of this, but as the years went by, this is the voice that became stronger and stronger within me.

Michael:

It almost sounds as if it was an important step for you, that it's something that you had to do in order to start discovering yourself and what was truly authentic to you.

Federico:

They are our path going forward forever, but because those activities, those career steps and so on serve a certain purpose and, yeah, as you say, this was a stepping stone that allowed me to to find myself more, more authentically that was the I presume the the starting point of your career.

Michael:

You eventually discovered that that wasn't the long-term outlook for yourself. How did you recognize that a change was needed?

Federico:

do the things that it needed to do right. And so dystonia is really funny because it can take all kinds of shapes and forms and manifestations. And what was happening for me was that I was sitting at the desk and trying to lift my arm up so that my hands would be on the keyboard and my eyes looking at the screen, and I would get these spasms where my eyes would contort and twist and my whole face my jaw would be in so much pain from the spasms that I had and my right arm was just screaming in pain as well. And I'm getting echoes of that pain and those spasms as I say this right now. And at a certain point it was just untenable.

Federico:

And obviously at the time I didn't know anything about dystonia, I didn't know about maladaptive neuroplasticity, but the tension and the rage that I had because of all kinds of issues that I was having at they were getting mapped onto the anatomical challenges that I had since I was little, in my occlusion with my jaw and my head and neck in general. And so you know, just for this to make sense for whoever's listening, when I was little these dentists opened up my bite on the left side of my mouth. And so, over the years, my brain forgot how to use the left side of my jaw to chew, to speak, to do all kinds of things and little by little, it started shedding the connections that weren't needed around the left side of the jaw, the neck. It started shedding the connections that weren't needed around the left side of the jaw, the neck, and so on and so forth, and it started overusing the right side. Well, this phenomenon was becoming really really strong and unbearably powerful and omnipresent.

Federico:

Really, when I was at work at the Mission of Israel to the UN and it was clear that something had to change, and again I didn't have the understanding that I needed to really create the change that I now know was necessary. But that caused me to move on to the next chapter of my career, which was something else altogether. And for a while I had this beautiful company called Kitchen Therapy that created whole food, plant-based meals that helped individuals with heart disease and type 2 diabetes reverse those conditions. And so, from you know my suit and tie at the UN, I went to these shared kitchens in Brooklyn and Astoria and in New York City and I had a small team of people with whom we created these meals that we froze and we shipped all over the United States and we ended up on TV and it was a whole thing and I really needed for my body to do something completely different.

Michael:

There's quite a lot to unpack, I think, in what you've just shared. Essentially, what I take from what you've said, or partly, is that, um, I mean, life essentially forced you to to make a change. The other point I'm curious about is sounded from what you were saying that the sort of emotional reaction that you had inside you and you mentioned, I think, specifically anger was causing physical symptoms or various symptoms in your body. Is that right?

Federico:

Yes. So it's really important, I think, to recognize resentment and anger. They show up in the body. We tend to suppress them, we tend to want to continue on autopilot. And you're absolutely right the body is where the real truth of our experience shows up. So for me, it was that resentment and anger.

Michael:

Now, a lot of the listeners probably won't have dystonia, but they might have different symptoms, physical symptoms for example. How common do you think that mapping is between the emotions and symptoms in the body?

Federico:

the stomach or tightening in the throat. We all experience signals that our nervous system uses in order to communicate with us. And if we tune into the tension in our shoulders, in our necks and so on, we have a much better chance at understanding the truth of what we are living through than if we try to get into the stories that we make up in our heads, trying to intellectualize and analyze and make sense of things, because inevitably those stories are trying to rationalize what is happening, are trying to suppress the signals that we're receiving if they don't fit with the narrative that feels comfortable for us.

Michael:

It's almost like the mind believes that we need to be protected. It almost takes us away from experiencing what's actually going on. Yeah, and I can certainly relate to that. I think in my own life, having spent a lifetime in my mind, and I recognize now, much later in my life, that that was a wonderful escape strategy from actually feeling what was actually going on inside me that had been suppressed for many, many years and possibly then leads into the condition of dystonia for myself as well, fascinating but not desirable, if I can put it that way.

Michael:

So, moving on to the kitchen, what's the connection between that and diplomat?

Federico:

Nothing at all.

Federico:

I was recognizing that my passion was in pursuing healing, and that was kind of my first chapter, I guess the first step in my journey with healing.

Federico:

I had recognized that what I ate made a massive difference in how I was feeling, and it had the ability to create change in a condition that doctors were not able to explain to me and were certainly not able to improve for me, and so I was beginning to recognize that, okay, there is something here that the world of medicine isn't recognizing, and the way our medical system is set up does not empower us to do what we can to get better, and so one easy thing is that we can eat differently.

Federico:

So one easy thing is that we can eat differently. And so you know, there was this opportunity to look at this low-hanging fruit of the fact that the number one killer in the West is heart disease and we have incredibly high rates of diabetes and prediabetes, and there's something really easy that we can do about it and that's changed the way we eat. And so I felt closer to my purpose when I was providing these meals for others and knowing the impact that these meals had on their lives, and I don't know if this is still out there on the internet. But our meals ended up being the star of this TV show called the Big Fat Truth, and there were all these stories of transformation, and that, to me, was so much more nourishing for my soul than negotiating UN General Assembly resolutions that collected dust on shelves for decades. That was their destiny.

Michael:

Now I'm making a bit of an assumption here. You know that was their destiny. Now I'm making a bit of an assumption here.

Federico:

I'm imagining that you could have made more money going the dip, the map route, yeah, and so you know, I have to say I had the luxury of knowing that I had a bit of a financial cushion and so I could try something new there, and I knew that I was starting something that I didn't really have a lot of experience in actually no experience in at all and it was okay for me to take that risk and that is a big piece there. But certainly I could have tried to, you know, die inside a little bit or a lot and try to pursue a career at the UN or in diplomacy or what have you. It would have been a lot easier from a lot of points of view. I am just the kind of person that cannot compromise on these things, cannot possibly contemplate a life of misery, and you know I didn't share this other episode, but perhaps it's relevant now.

Federico:

I had a previous episode and that is really the moment when my symptoms exploded for the first time. I was living in Israel and I was working at this think tank, and it was just 12, 14 hour days sitting at a desk, 12, 14 hour days sitting at a desk looking at a computer, you know, working as an analyst, and I was so miserable doing that that one day my alarm clock rang and I physically couldn't turn around to grab my phone and turn the alarm clock off. That was due to dystonia and so on, but it was happening specifically because I was miserable in my circumstances, and so it was clear to me that, yes, in theory there's an option of me making more money or following an easier path, but my body, my soul, just won't allow it.

Michael:

Yeah, and again I make the bridge to, I think, a lot of the people that I'm working with at the moment. Most people won't have dystonia, but I think there's a message here that you're giving, which is pay attention, pay attention to what's going on inside you. Don't ignore some of those signals that might be communicating that whatever career path that you've chosen may not be forever. And I think I can definitely connect with that myself, because I was very much in my mind, I very much had, let's say, an image of the way that things should be for myself in my career, what was acceptable for me, what was desirable financially as well.

Michael:

It's clear in retrospect, now looking back, that having forced myself to stay in one or two jobs that just weren't authentic to who I was, that physical symptoms started to manifest. So I think it's a great message that you're giving to the listeners here is pay attention to the ramifications of taking a path which is based only or let's say I don't want to trivialize it, but let's say which is not based on what feels authentic, which might be, for example, for financial implications.

Federico:

Yeah, or for status. You know, just real quick, after I left my job at the UN, one of the first things that I noticed is that I was getting a very difficult different reaction to the usual New York City question of oh hey, what do you do, right? So when I said I am a political advisor at the mission of Israel to the United Nations, I got all these business cards and people were excited and they were smiling and so on. And then when I started saying I started a company that provides whole food, plant-based meals to help people reverse chronic health conditions like all right, well, that's cute and that is something that you have to take into account, right? Are you able to step into a bit of a void there and start building a sense of self-worth and self-esteem that is independent of the title that you had and maybe were attached to, right? If you're considering doing something new, that is a big thing to take into account.

Michael:

And hence making a career transition is very much, at least for me, a path of growth and development.

Michael:

It's not just about the practicalities of what job do I do. It's very much an inner journey. How did you realize what that authentic next step needed to be? Because a lot of people tend to go into a thinking process about what have I been doing and therefore, what could I do relative about what have I been doing and therefore, what could I do relative to what have I been doing Now, it didn't sound to me as if that was your process. I'm just wondering if you can go into a little bit of detail on how you made that decision.

Federico:

Yeah. So perhaps I'll tell you how I did it and how I think about it now, knowing what I know today. What I did back then was really to just jump, just do the thing right. I had an opportunity. It made some kind of sense at the time and I knew that I couldn't fully figure out the next steps or get trained well enough to be qualified to do what I wanted to do or what have you. I understood that I just needed to jump and learn as I was doing things. It ended up working for me in that I learned a lot, I made plenty of mistakes and then I turned you know the whole project around and that company then allowed me to be much better at what I'm doing now. So you know, I looked at it as a learning opportunity from the start.

Federico:

Nowadays, knowing what I know, here's how I think about. You know these kinds of questions how do you figure out your next steps? There is a superficial, I would say, way of looking at it, which is okay what have I done before? What is on my CV and how can I do this elsewhere? How can I look at the kind of the keywords of my past and try to do something that just feels marginally better, and so on, all of this that just feels marginally better, and so on. All of this, yes, has a place in our thinking, I would say, but my invitation is to go deeper, and the first thing there is to look at those signals from our bodies and from our emotions really and just ask ourselves and from our emotions really, and just ask ourselves what feels exciting, what feels fun, what feels easeful. The other question that I would ask myself is what is my ultimate concern? What is the most important thing for me? If I can identify this ultimate concern, the thing that is most important to me, that is a supreme value right, what is it like to walk back from that ultimate concern and find the steps and the actions that I can take in my daily life, in my work, that serve this ultimate concern and this supreme value right, and chances are that the thing that is fun to do is also the thing that serves this ultimate concern and supreme value, and so on.

Federico:

The question then becomes a question of individuation right and a question of trying to understand how can I become the most authentic, the fullest, most empowered version of myself, and that doesn't happen by forcing ourselves into a mold or by looking at what we have done in the past alone. It's not accomplished by trying to understand what people expect of us. That process of individuation happens by being really honest with ourselves. Being really honest with ourselves, looking at where we suffer, looking at where we thrive, trying to really get to know ourselves from a place of surrender, right with no agenda, and understanding our strengths and weaknesses and, again, our purpose.

Federico:

And so it's very much, as you say, a journey, I think, of personal growth. It is something that will take us to our shadow, right, the parts of us that we don't want to look at ourselves. It's something that takes us to our bodies so that we get out of our heads and the stories that we tell ourselves about ourselves. And so let me pause here, perhaps, and hear your thoughts on what I say here. Given what you do, how does that land for you?

Michael:

I also see how I would do it differently now, and I think a lot of it is about perspective and exactly, I think, the perspective that you've just brought to us, which is the perspective of what's truly authentic to us, and recognizing that, as soon as we start to ask ourselves that question, it's almost inevitable that the mind comes up with these concerns. And it's to recognize that the mind comes up with these concerns and it's to recognize that this is the role that that part of the mind feels it needs to play. Let it play its games, but we have a choice of whether we listen to it.

Federico:

Yeah, so it sounds like you're saying you're referring to the ways in which the mind might protect us from our hearts desires or what feels truly authentic, and I think it's crucial to recognize the importance of the defense mechanisms that we may have that lead us to continue to take into account what people will think and all the ways in which we need to be cautious.

Federico:

But I guess what I'm really pointing to is recognizing that this is an invitation, this is an opportunity for us to honor that authenticity, to honor a voice within us that is powerful, that wants to develop right. The autopilot serves us well until it doesn't right, and I assume that those who are listening to this conversation might be listening because they sense that maybe something is off, maybe there is a yearning for more alignment, and so my invitation is to trust that yearning and to surrender to where it wants to lead us, and trusting that that process of individuation, of becoming who we really are meant to be and showing up in the world powerfully and authentically is something that can bring so much joy, not just to ourselves, but to the world around us as well. I'm a big believer that the world needs us to be the most authentic and empowered version of ourselves, because we have unique gifts that nobody else can provide, and, in my experience, that ends up being rewarding as well.

Michael:

Absolutely. I mean I look at my own transition and how much happier I am in my own life. It's not to say that what I was doing was the wrong decision. It was the path that I had to go through to find my authenticity and I think what's coming up for me is maybe, to take a very practical, typical example that comes up Certainly. It came up for me in a big way because of my early life conditioning and that is yeah. But it's okay, michael, telling me to connect to what's authentic. But I've got a family and I've got two kids to support and know. Thanks a lot. But you know this is for retirement, or maybe I'll retire a few years ahead of time if I manage to save enough money. Any advice or comments you would make about that scenario?

Federico:

So the concerns are absolutely valid. Of course, I had the possibility at the time being single and being in the place I was at the time in my life that I was in to just jump into something new and change, and that's not the case for everybody. I would say we have more opportunities now than ever, given the technology that we have access to, to begin flirting with something new and to begin seeing how that can be something that is financially rewarding as well, and so I think we have an opportunity, now more than ever, to say, all right, how do I, for example, build a certain kind of thought leadership and prove my expertise on a given topic by creating content that ends up on YouTube, on social media and so on? How could I begin offering something new by connecting with the people that I interact with on social media? Right, and things can begin to build up really quickly, and you know we haven't talked too much about that second step in my transition from kitchen therapy to doing what I do now with, you know, being a spiritual guide and and coaching people with with dystonia, but the way that happened is that my health got to a point where, you know, I was just mostly spending my time in bed in pain, and I had to completely surrender my desire to do anything at all.

Federico:

So kitchen therapy, as well, had to be closed because there was nothing really that I could do, and I understood that I had to completely surrender there, completely let go. And by surrendering I ended up learning about the cranial nerves and about the nervous system, about spirituality, about self-compassion and mindfulness. I ended up getting trained as a mindfulness meditation teacher, but from that I felt called to start writing blog posts about my journey and about what I was learning. And then one person on social media just wrote to me asking me if I would coach them, and I said yes. And then, you know, it all snowballed from there. It wasn't something that I had planned, it wasn't something that I decided to do full-time right off the bat, but technology, social media and just these opportunities that we have to create content they allowed me to turn this into what is now the main thing that I do and my main source of income.

Michael:

Yeah, and I think the way that I connect to what you've just described is the importance of allowing ourselves to explore, allowing ourselves to follow those sort of inner impulses of what might, what might be fun, what gives us positive energy, and to allow ourselves to take action just out of the curiosity of, hey, this might be interesting, it may have no relationship to an actual career but by allowing ourselves to explore.

Michael:

My understanding and my experience that I'm going through for myself is that there's a kind of a natural unfolding process that takes place in front of us as we go through that exploration process, and yet it's easy to say that and again the mind kicks in with you haven't got time to do that, or you're never going to make enough money doing the things that you love to do, etc. Etc. I'd like to come back to a term that you mentioned a few minutes ago and that is used the term surrender. Can you explain a little bit about what you meant by that, because I can imagine that from some people's perspective that could be interpreted as giving up. I don't think you mean that.

Federico:

Well, I used to actually start my coaching sessions with people that were in really bad shape and were really grasping at recovery and so on, and I would tell them two things. One don't believe anything, I say. Number two give up, and it would drive them crazy, right, but it would really set the stage for how I wanted my clients to approach this journey of recovery. So, don't believe anything. I say is an invitation to believe your direct experience, right. So don't make a choice, don't make a change, don't start you know the new blog or the new YouTube channel or what have you, because somebody's telling you to Begin learning to really hear those signals that happen within that your soul, your heart are sending. Learn to trust that they are real, right. Soul your heart are sending. Learn to trust that they are real, right. You're not making them up, you don't have to dismiss them, they're not dangerous, right. Try to just befriend them and listen to them with an open heart and an open mind. And number two, what I mean by give up is really surrender, right, which is, stop fighting yourself, right. Stop trying to control your emotions and your thoughts and your authenticity right. Stop trying to fit into a narrow mold of what you think you should be, and that doesn't mean that you need to, you know, make drastic choices right away, and so on. But what would it be like to just stop the war against yourself, right? What would it be like to just acknowledge that there is something within that wants change? And what would it be like to just listen? What would it be like to just listen? And if we surrender to this right, if we surrender to the authenticity within us, then we can begin to take action in ways that actually don't take away from our time and from our energy, and so on. We can begin to take action in ways that nourish us, right?

Federico:

So it's fun to write that blog post, it's fun to offer a free consultation to somebody, it's fun to fill in the blank whatever it is that you're trying to do, and that doesn't happen from a place of discipline. In my experience, it's not about forcing ourselves to be the best at this new career that we're starting right away, and so on. It's about recognizing that this wants to happen. It wants to happen within us. And, if you allow me to get a little bit spiritual here and a little bit woo-woo, and it might not be for everybody, but there is something larger that might be at play and that is trying to work through you, right? So the process of individuation, you becoming the most authentic and most empowered version of yourself, might very well be in the service of something that is bigger than yourself. And so what would it be like to surrender to that, slowly, in ways that feel feasible and safe, but to surrender to it?

Michael:

Yeah, very inspiring. Going back to your comment about these inner signs, any advice that you can offer about how we tune into ourselves, how do we connect to ourselves? Because particularly, I think, in the corporate world, we tend to spend so much time in the mind analyzing, solving problems and some of us like myself, at least in earlier years have lost a little bit the connection to that inner self to realize what those impulses are.

Federico:

Yes, and that has to do with the water we're swimming in, right the cultural landscape that we're immersed in. We live in a culture that is all about what is observable outside, we live in a materialistic culture that doesn't believe it until it sees it right. And we live in a culture that has completely disregarded our interior dimensions. And the only way in which those interior dimensions are looked at is if they can in some way be measured externally in one way or another. And this is rooted in the scientific paradigm that has served us so well, but it veers into a scientistic, so to speak, paradigm, where there is only what is outside. And so what I hear in your question, michael, is an invitation to recognize that there is something inside that is real, an invitation to recognize that there is something inside that is real, that deserves to be celebrated and cherished and welcomed and that has a lot to contribute. And so the spiritual traditions offer us a number of ways to connect to this interior dimension and, ultimately, to this loving reality that we are a part of, or God, if you will, if the word works for you.

Federico:

In the Buddhist tradition, this is framed in a way that is almost like an Ayurvedic medical prescription, right. So there is suffering, right. There is some way in which things feel misaligned. There is a way to understand why the suffering is there and there is a cure to this suffering. The path that is offered to understand those inner dimensions and ultimately create a life of more alignment, of liberation or what have you, is to, number one, pay attention to the body, as we were saying. Right.

Federico:

So the best way to begin to befriend our interior world, our inner landscape, is to practice mindfulness of the body.

Federico:

So that means just sitting with no agenda and just noticing the places where there's more tension, where there's more aliveness. It's about, number two, practicing awareness of feeling tones, right, noticing that we go through life constantly grasping at the things that we like and pushing away the things we don't like. What is it like to stop that constant push and pull, to just come into stillness so that we can look at things the way they are? And I'll just say the third of four foundations here of mindfulness is looking at our mental formations from that place of stillness and in the way they show up in the body, going for a ride with every mental loop that comes on, but because we're able to work with what is present from the heart and from a place of stillness and clear seeing, and so this is a long answer to your question. But, to summarize, understanding what is real for us starts with the body and with looking objectively and compassionately at our experience. Answer your question.

Michael:

Absolutely, and I feel that we could spend another hour talking about this. We could. It's a fascinating topic and, I think, an extremely pertinent one in the case of career transition, because of the personal growth that's needed to make that transition typically, and yet I feel that we need to start drawing this to a close. So I have to say that this podcast didn't quite go in the direction that I was originally anticipating, but I wanted to make it organic as possible and I am so glad that we ended up touching on the topics that we have done. I think I'd love to invite you back, federico, at some point in the future, perhaps to continue the journey with you. Love that Before, perhaps, wrapping things up, what haven't I asked you which you would have loved to have been asked, because I don't think we got through all of your journey. Wrapping things up, what haven't I asked you which you would have loved to have been asked?

Federico:

Because I don't think we got through all of your journey. Well, you know what? I'll just add one thing that I think is important, that I discovered relatively recently and I'm realizing that it is a part of so many people's journeys, so many people's journeys and that is that I am autistic. And it is relevant because it means that, among other things, I have a harder time suppressing sensory stimulus. That is not relevant, that it is a little bit more complicated for me to live, you know, to function in groups of people, to live, you know to function in groups of people, and so I realized that, without knowing that I am autistic, I built a life for myself in which I'm able to relate to people deeply, one-on-one, and when there are group interactions, it's very mindful and it really works. For me.

Federico:

It would have been maybe a lot easier to understand the way forward had I had a diagnosis early on, and so if you suspect that you are wired just a little bit differently, that you have a little extra pep in your step in some things and other things feel a little bit mysterious, that is one big tip that I would have is find an online test and see if it helps you understand how you can thrive right, how you can be the most authentic and empowered version of yourself and create.

Federico:

You know the career and the life that really works for you there, and you know there's so much more that I could say perhaps one big one. In corporate settings and when it comes to thinking about our careers, If you find that you've been told that you're really blunt with your feedback or that you know you need to calibrate how you speak to others and so on, that is something that happens very often with autism and Asperger's, a specific type of autism, and so you know, these are all things that are invitations to understand ourselves better, not because we're trying to apply a label to ourselves that is limiting. Quite the opposite. It's an invitation to understand how we are, what our strengths and weaknesses are, where we're developing and where we actually excel more than others, because that is a great foundation to then make decisions on how we want our daily life to look like and our career to look like. Does that make sense?

Michael:

Absolutely, and I think, maybe a point to emphasize here, that is the label that you mentioned. So if people have been given a label, by a doctor, for example, or somebody else in the medical profession, yes, respect it, and it doesn't have to define you.

Federico:

Yeah, and you know, the common thread perhaps in a lot of what we're saying is that neuroplasticity right, the brain continues to grow and continues to reshape, it continues to make new connections, and so anything that you're given, you know, as a label, as a diagnosis, as you know, any limitation that you perceive is a starting point. It's the beginning of the story, not the end.

Michael:

Yeah, and I think that message is absolutely well, very resonant for me personally, as you, I think, have caught on to recently in our sessions together, because, despite the fact that my own dystonia now trying to think of the right word to use, but for want of a better phrasing forces me to withdraw a little bit from some of the normal daily activities that I was used to doing, like, for example, doing a podcast without the video, a lot is still possible, for example, starting a podcast. Yeah, with this condition, so it doesn't have to define me, and I do truly believe the learning that I've gone through with you recently that it is my path forward and by following this path and getting to the bottom of the dystonia, that new opportunities will eventually open up and to be open, what the outcome outcome actually is yeah, and I would take it a step further, and I know we're we're out of time, but this is really important.

Federico:

Um, allow me to to kind of trap you a little bit here, Michael, and I would love for your listeners to see if they would be okay with uh, you know, seeing you just the way you are right with, with the dystonia, with with the neck. Um, I have a strong sense that the answer will be a resounding yes. And the second thing that I will say is that you can take what you said a step further. It's not just that there is still an opportunity to have a podcast. The dystonia is helping you become a wiser, more compassionate, more aware, more empowered version of yourself. A lot of the growth that you're going through right now would not have happened without these challenges. So the Hebrew word for devil is satan. Satan means obstacle. It's just a stepping stone, right? So not only is it still possible to have a podcast, your journey of growth is so much more powerful because of this obstacle, and it's just really a perceived obstacle. It's that stepping stone that helps you grow even more. Yeah, how does that land?

Michael:

Well, that lands very well. I'm very grateful for your feedback and, yeah, I think my wish is that the listeners of this see your comments not only directed to me, but to connect to the relevance for their own lives as well. Yeah, to me, but to connect to the relevance for their own lives as well. Federico, where can people find out more about you and your work?

Federico:

So I have a main website federicopetrellicom. I know hard to spell. It's hopefully going to be in the description wherever this beautiful podcast ends up, and if you are dealing with nervous system conditions, then hopefordistoniacom why not? You can find me on Instagram as well, at healwithfede.

Michael:

Any final last messages.

Federico:

Yeah, perhaps connecting to that last bit of our conversation, life is here for you, not against you, right? So, whatever circumstances you're dealing with, what are you going to do with the life that's here?

Michael:

I love that. Really appreciate you making yourself available for us today. Look forward to maybe having another chat with you at some point in the future.

Federico:

Thank you, Michael. I appreciate your good heart and intelligence and the depth that you bring here.

Michael:

Thank you so much. It's been a pleasure and thank you Bye.