Light, Life Energy & Breatharianism – Rethinking Science with P.A. Straubinger

What if the human body isn’t powered by calories alone?

In this thought-provoking episode, we sit down with Austrian filmmaker P.A. Straubinger, creator of the groundbreaking documentary In the Beginning There Was Light, to explore one of the most controversial and fascinating questions in modern science:

👉 What is life energy?

We dive into breatharianism, fasting, biophotons, mitochondria, the fourth phase of water, and the growing tension between scientific materialism and emerging research on light and consciousness.

Is the body just a biochemical machine — or is there more going on?

P.A. shares insights from over 10 years of research, interviews with scientists and spiritual practitioners, and the personal experiences that shifted his worldview beyond conventional biology. 

We discuss:

• The limits of the caloric theory of metabolism
 • Why up to 23% of human energy may be unexplained
 • Fasting, autophagy, and Nobel Prize-winning science
 • Light as an information carrier in food
 • Gerald Pollack’s research on structured water
 • Why questioning scientific dogma isn’t anti-science
 • The importance of sunlight in modern living

This episode isn’t about proving breatharianism — it’s about opening a conversation around consciousness, light, metabolism, and our relationship to the sun.

If you're interested in bioenergetics, fasting, natural light, mitochondrial health, or the future of science, this conversation will challenge your assumptions in the best possible way.

🎬 Watch P.A.’s documentary: In the Beginning There Was Light

https://www.lightdocumentary.com/

Direct links to watch the movie on demand:

https://vimeo.com/ondemand/lightdocumentary (English subtitles)

https://vimeo.com/ondemand/lightus (English Voice Over)

And with a subscription on GAIA https://www.gaia.com/video/beginning-there-was-light

Sunlight Matters is a podcast exploring the role of the Sun in human health, architecture, cities, and everyday life.

Through conversations with scientists, architects, and technologists, the series examines how natural light shapes our bodies, our buildings, and the way we live indoors.

Hosted by Dave Wallace, Sunlight Matters asks a simple but overlooked question: what happens when we disconnect from the Sun?

Because sunlight isn’t optional. It matters.

Please do not forget to Like and Subscribe. 

Transcript

Introduction

Dave Wallace 0:00

 Welcome to this episode of the podcast, uh PA. Lovely to have you with us. Uh I wonder if you could just start by uh introducing yourself and uh talk a bit about what you do, and um then we can kind of get into uh some of the interesting things that you've done and are doing.

Exploring Life Energy and Consciousness

P.A. Straubinger 1:44

Great. Thanks, Dave. So um originally I'm a filmmaker. I studied at the Film Academy, and in the 1990s, I um got a lot of interest in transpersonal psychology, and so I came into meditation and and yoga. And uh this led me uh to a meditation teacher where I heard from other students that he does not eat. And this was the beginning of an amazing journey for many, many years, uh, where I studied and filmed this strange phenomenon of Bretherianism. It's called in in English Bretherianism. There are uh a lot of different names around the world. In Austria, it's called Liechten, which means light nourishment, and has a lot to do with the sun. And yeah, we will talk about uh that. And yeah, uh the the the movie is called In the Beginning There Was Light. I was doing 10 years of of research for the movie, five years of shooting around the world, and I learned so much during uh making this movie. Um a lot that is not in the movie, but uh that is important for the subtext. And in Austria, in the beginning there was light was huge, it was in in um cinemas here, and it uh uh was bigger than most Hollywood movies. And uh Yeah, it was sold all around the world, but for example, in the English-speaking countries, uh countries it was really just for a small uh tiny part of people who are interested, especially in in this topic. But for me, the the movie is not uh really about people who eat or not eat, that's just like the the hook line or the surface. Uh in reality, it's about what is life energy? So why are we living and how can we maximize life energy? But also uh what for me uh is most important questioning the materialistic worldview. So what is matter? What is consciousness? Is is consciousness and soul really just coming out of matter? Is life energy just coming out of matter? These are the the most important uh things I question in this book, uh in in this film. I I'm also an author, uh speaking about books. I I also wrote three uh bestseller books about intermittent fasting because during this journey I also learned about um uh the phenomenon of autophagy in 2008, long before there was the Nobel Prize. And so I started doing intermittent fasting, and so I I wrote three three books about this as well, and it fits very well into this topic of Bretharianism and and subtle energies nourishing the body.

Dave Wallace 5:14

Amazing. And I mean I've seen the mu movie, and I would encourage anyone who's listening to this to have a watch because it's deeply, deeply fascinating. Um, I think we'll provide a link to um it i in the sort of show notes so people can can access it. But it's a deeply fascinating movie, and I think for for me, the idea that people can survive without eating you know, as the sort of premise, and I know that there's a sort of broader context which we'll kind of come back to, but that as the premise, and then kind of working that through from a almost scientific or not almost, but from a scientific point of view, I I I found super interesting. Because, you know, I guess if someone said to me, like, uh and you know, I've had this discussion with my family that there are people who can survive without eating and some of them without drinking as well. I mean, it just sounds impossible.

Scientific Perspectives on Caloric Theory

P.A. Straubinger 6:20

It's it's very uh provoking, and I I mean that that was the idea. And we have to say from a scientific standpoint, we we cannot say if like Prahlajani really didn't eat for uh 70 or 80 years or didn't drink. But what we can say from a scientific standpoint, and we we have quite a few um studies about that, is that the dogma of Loric theory that we are just living uh from the oxidation of glucose doesn't hold up to scientific studies. And we we see that for example, if we compare direct and indirect calorimetry. So if the dogma or if the idea would be true that we that life energy is just coming from the oxidation of glucose, uh, then direct and indirect calorimetry should be the same. So if I measure how much oxygen is going in and how much carbon dioxide is going out, then this amount should be more or less the same as the amount of energy produced by the body. If you deduct um all the um uh things going out of the body. And it already showed that though there was a paper in Nature in 1973. It was called How Much Food Does Man Require? And the answer is more or less we don't know because it differs from person to person so much that we cannot answer the question. Because this idea of uh the caloric uh theory was put forth by Antoine Lavoisier, the the father of modern chemistry in 1777. And he said that the combustion processes in machines are more or less the same as the processes in metabolism. And this idea from the 18th century is still in our heads. People think still think this is true, and this fitted so well in the ideas of enlightenment that man is a machine, more or less, because René Descartes said that all organic creation is mechanistic. This this became the dogma. René Descartes still said that the that everything works mechanistic, but only humans are connected via the pineal gland with the spiritual realm. But in the in the 18th and 19th century, uh when technology was rising and they saw, you know, we we can do everything, they just forgot about the spiritual realm. And in the 19th century, uh in it was actually in 1973 when when uh three scientific organizations uh came together and asked this heretic question: how much food does man require? Because caloric theory doesn't work in reality, you know. When you it's like a Gaussian curve. Uh the the the the formulas to to calculate the caloric needs uh fit for most people more or less. Not for everybody. It's it's it's like uh uh uh a scale that would say a man in your age with your head weighs 73 kilos. That fits for most people with my hate, but you know I can weigh 30 kilos more or 30 kilos less. And they saw that this doesn't work, and in 1980 there was a doctor called Paul Webb uh who who built calorimeters for NASA. And he said the better the measurements, the bigger are the amounts of energy we cannot account for. And he saw that in completely normal people, up to 23% of the energy you cannot explain calorically. And it's also said in the studies, when you go to lightdocumentary.com, I have all the links to these studies. And he also said the uh especially when you have a um in a in in fasting, for example, when you have a uh caloric deficit, then this amount of unmeasured energy, they called it, then it's especially big. And in my perception, you know, we are speaking here about completely normal people, not about Bretharians. Up to 23%. So you cannot say this is something like a measurement uh thing. It's it's really like up to a quarter of the whole energy. Uh and in my perception, in these breatharians, this amount of energy you cannot calculate for is just bigger. If it's going up really to 100%, I don't know. But the interesting part is where is this energy coming from we cannot account for? And this is life energy. In in in whatever form, in in China they call it big, big gu qi. Big means without bread, but directly through qi, the life energy. And they say that we all uh take, of course, qi via the food, and we will talk later about how the life energy is coming into the food by the sun, uh, but it's also coming directly into the body in in all people. But the amount of this direct qi is uh differs from person to person and from situation to situation, and also this this energy called qi or prana in in India isn't known in in mainstream science because you cannot measure it. But we also have to say that modern science cannot produce one single living cell out of dead matter, so there is a big black hole and a big knowledge gap. Yeah, there's a huge knowledge gap. And I I once spoke with an Iwitic doctor and he said to me classical medicine and classical science cannot speak about uh life energy because on the basics they they have their knowledge from dissecting corpses. So the huge revolution about modern medicine was breaking the taboo of dissecting corpses. So they fully understood the mechanical plan, how the body works. But he said, if if you study dead matter, of course you do not understand qi and prana and the energetic forces. So for for me, when when I did all this research, this question of life energy became bigger and bigger. And there was this this famous psychologist Wilhelm Reich, who tried to bring the idea of life energy into the scientific discussion. He called it organ, what's more or less qi o pirana. And what happened to him? First the Nazis burned his books because he was a Jew, then he he went to America, and then the Food and Drug Administration burned his books, and he went to jail because he he said that uh uh a judge cannot judge about science stuff, and then he died in in in jail.

Georg Molzer 15:17

But what was the official reason they jailed him?

P.A. Straubinger 15:20

Like do you know what what the official because he he said uh you you know he had these organ accumulators and cloudbusters and that stuff, and he he wasn't willing to uh to uh uh put these things away. He he said I'm true.

Georg Molzer 15:42

And but if they wouldn't work, then they wouldn't have a reason to to call ask him to lock it away, right?

The Role of Biophotons and Light Energy

P.A. Straubinger 15:48

I mean, yeah, and the funny thing is you you know the the the all the research about biophotons came out of the research from Wilhelm Reich. That's Fritz Albert Popp, the pioneer of biophoton research, of course, wasn't very was very careful to not say this is organ energy. But you know, biophotons that's a fact, you know, that's that's this weak light radiation that is in all cells. But the skeptics say, okay, it's an epiphenomenon, you know, it's here, but there isn't no meaning to it. But Fritz Albert Pump says these biophotons, the the light of life, you may call it, is the essence of light, and it's very weak. This is a very weak light, but this very weak light is the carrier of information, the carrier of coherent information coming from the sun, stored in the plants and indirect in the animals. And if we eat the food, then we get the light. He says if you look at the chemical formula of sugar, then you can divide it into carbon dioxide and and water. What stay and then both goes out of the body. What stays is the light and the information in this light. And I also spoke to consciousness scientists, and uh they they said what what is consciousness? Consciousness is this information, if consciousness leaves the body, then it quickly falls apart into that matter, into dust. So the interesting thing the interesting things are not the material substances, but the information that makes out of that living uh uh out of that matter a living uh organisms and uh organism, and it seems that this information or at least the the biophotons are one uh way, one key uh to understand life energy, not not the only one.

Georg Molzer 18:07

But I mean I can imagine that many people also our listeners, for them, this might be just a a big stretch from from their worldview. And as you have mentioned, I think it's really interesting that the the Western science has always like worked on dead matter. I think that's a it's it's a very understandable philosophy difference. If you work on dead matter, of course you don't you don't even deal with life energy at all.

Speaker 2 18:34

Absolutely.

Georg Molzer 18:34

I think the Eastern philosophies they're based on it. It's like this is this is for for them, it's actually the other way, it's like completely the other way around. And I'm always like somehow optimistic that in the end both of them meet, and then you know, like it's like the connections established, and then one side understands the other and the other side side understands the other one, and and then you have like synthesis, as you as you also like to say, right?

P.A. Straubinger 18:58

Absolutely, absolutely. And I think it was Wilhelm Reich who said science is necrophilic, because first you have to kill the things to to watch them. If if you uh look at something in the electron microscope, you first have to kill it and prepare it, and then you look at it. Of course you don't understand the mystery of life. But this would uh as you said, I think this is the most important uh thing that uh that these these world views start uh these worldviews start cu com communicating. Because of of course it was fantastic what what classical science did to us and and to understand the the uh mechanistic plan of of the body that that's fantastic, but it's it's just one one piece, and it has to come together with this wisdom of of the East, and we can learn a lot from them.

Georg Molzer 20:02

Yeah, and I mean it is like the the the human body is like a machine, but not a hundred percent. It's like a hybrid system. You have like the machine aspects which you can really do the and like the the comparisons to to regular, I don't know, um fuel machines or whatever. But then there is more happening, and this is what you like really in a very good way um show us. I I wanna ask you because I think it's it's really about experiencing these things on yours on yourself so that you open up to these things. And I I think you told me that in the past you were very rational and um like completely basically Western science aligned and and then something like some some shift has happened and I also had this myself like for me it was really a the the a higher consciousness state that opened me up to to see beyond like what what mainstream science, how I would call it, tells me. And and I think you also had a like a similar journey, and I think this is just um I think it's good if if you share it a bit, you know, that that other people are like it's it's a it's a process, you know, like this doesn't happen um on its own. It's not about reading books per se that you open up yourself to these things, but it's often about personally experiencing these things.

The Clash of Worldviews: East vs. West

P.A. Straubinger 21:20

Absolutely. I I think this this is the key point. First has to happen. Some experience like uh getting healed or um a kind of expanded state of consciousness. And afterwards, then you you can read books and see that that this this small box where you lived in isn't everything, isn't the whole the whole universe. And this is what what what happened to me because uh I always have been very interested in biolog biology and physics and and uh classical psychology and when when I came out of school I I thought I I have under I had understood the world more or less and uh it was later on that I I had experiences that that showed me this is not everything and and then then I I I read books like T G Jung with transpersonal psychology and and Rupert Sheldrake where you see that the materialistic world view isn't the truth like this is this is sold to us that uh the the this this this dogma that mind and soul are an epiphenomon of material processes is like scientific truth and everything else is delusion but it shows up no you know it's the the materialistic worldview is a belief system it's okay to believe in that you know I I believed in that myself so I have no problem with that but we have to be careful to say this is truth this is scientific truth and all I saw on in in my journey is that uh science was took hostage by this positivistic materialistic worldview because there is so much scientific evidence for uh for example supernatural phenomena for uh phenomena that show that our mind is expanding beyond our physical body so there's a lot of physical evidence but it's left out because it doesn't fit into this dogma and it's in in mainstream science and this is what because I interviewed so many scientists who were doing studies in fringe parts of sciences on on the edges and they had huge problems. You know if if a scientist says you know we we we should study supernatural phenomena then they have a big problem like Brian Josephson he he was a Nobel Prize laureate I think with 23 years and he he he says that if if science doesn't study phenomena of the mind also like supernatural phenomena then science cannot expand. And for this reason I I think that there was a series of stamps in Britain with with all the British Nobel Prize laureates. And then there was a committee who said Brian Josephson cannot be on this series of stamps because he's a pseudoscientist.

Dave Wallace 24:54

Also he's a Nobel Prize laureate in in in physics and there are many many many examples and um well is it I I mean it's is it I mean I think it's there is the establishment I mean it's basically all these things they upset the s established norms and I I mean returning to the film because I I mean how long ago was the film made? It was it's been around for quite some time.

P.A. Straubinger 25:25

Absolutely it was it it was in 2010 when it was released in Austria.

Dave Wallace 25:30

And uh I mean I I can tell because of the lovely rover car you were driving. But I I think what was really fascinating for me was a lot of the things you were talking about you know I can imagine in 2010 would have been bordering on the heretical into sort of normal traditional science. Now traditional science is having to go well actually there might be some stuff in so you you know you talk about things like biophotons and you you know this energy and you know I've just had a conversation with someone who in in a lab is showing that light impacts metabolism you know so the mechanism I mean we didn't go into how that happens but it it's it's sort of coming now and you know what I'm kind of interested in is your your views around kind of the the lag that seems to be in it.

The Evolution of Scientific Understanding

P.A. Straubinger 26:34

But but are you are you kind of optimistic now when you kind of look back on the film because I think the film is almost more relevant now than it was absolutely it's time has come I mean this is what we see yeah across the board I I I saw saw uh how science changed personally you know you you mentioned a few things but they are still like fringe you know uh that mitochondria can use light directly to produce uh energy there are studies already but the the the most impressive thing i i witnessed was uh when I was interviewing all these doctors and and uh uh physiologists and dietists they all said to me in the in the 2000s they said to me fasting is either uh dangerous or it has no use this was in the 2000s and there was just one one professor who said to me you know we we have now some studies that show that 12 to 14 hours of fasting could be quite good that was when when I uh started doing intermittent fasting and in 2016 uh then uh the Nobel Prize was given for the studies around autophagy and Osumi who who who started the research you know autophagy is is this phenomenon uh uh that uh is like the the the the cleaning of the cell when you when you are doing fasting and he started this research in the 1990s and it was around for 20 years but uh the the the studies from the molecular biologists didn't come to the uh to the medical scientists and it it was for me very interesting to see how how this changed in 10 years because nowadays everybody knows fasting is good and is an anti-aging uh thing and you know it it was just about 10 years and it was the Nobel Prize that created this because suddenly when something uh gets the Nobel Prize then everybody knows it. But you have a lot of studies that before they they are published or they get uh before they they get a big prize then they they are in in their little branches and nobody talks about it. Like you said the studies around light and mitochondria or the the the studies from Gerald Pollock about the force phase of water or body of water that is charged by light uh energy and and by by the radiation from the earth. There's so much knowledge there are so many studies and that there's a big difference between uh knowledge a lot of scientists have in in their little branches and the collective consciousness what is known everywhere and things that contradict the materialistic worldview just don't get published or just get published in in their little magazines.

Georg Molzer 30:07

Not anymore I think it's really changing it's really about like it feels like throughout the whole world there is like a an increasing openness to these things and of course there will always be hardliners who lock themselves off off of this but I mean that's the decision it's it's it's cool. I think you know the the the problem you could say is that these studies are funded and that costs money often tax money and I think it also makes sense that tax money is not wasted on complete utter hardcore nonsense but I mean this is also what's happening in in classical mainstream science there is money used for completely bonkers stuff. So that there should just be you know like as soon as the the awareness increases and people are more open they will also demand these things to happen and then it's just a matter of time and then we see it already so I I'm I'm I'm just very optimistic. I really think it's um it's it's the time for all these things now.

P.A. Straubinger 31:01

I'm also optimistic but there's also this saying you you only can see what you can explain. So if if something doesn't fit in a world view then you if if you cannot explain it for yourself that this could be then they they they don't give research money for that. And I I think that's currently still the big problem that we we have this materialistic dogma in in science which makes it very difficult to to do to to use governmental money for for these studies. Like the ETX piles of of academia Yeah uh but this this is money from uh from people who who from donations and not governmental money because you don't get governmental money for research on supernatural phenomena or things like that. It just needs to be like a a big breakthrough like like this this organization for example I don't know discovering a warp drive or whatever and then the return of investment is so massive that people realize hey it's actually worth it to do some some more yeah and i i I mean the research is done by by um by the military and by agencies uh they they they use this stuff this stuff like in the in the in the uh Stargate project uh and you know for for me it's so so strange that some some phenomena are so obvious and it's so obvious that science cannot explain them and uh still they they reject research on on this stuff I mean like life energy itself science has no clue what life energy is and s still these ideas who could explain this are rejected.

Dave Wallace 33:20

I mean it's really because I think we believe or we're taught I don't know somehow we have this idea that science and doctors they know what they're talking about. So um but you you you know my experience is is that over time you realise they they're kind of clutching at straws. I mean I went to a doctor he was using Google to sort of like try and work out what was going on with me and I was like this this is this is a first for me really and um I and it was kind of interesting it's sort of one of those penny drop moments where you're like oh okay maybe the establishment isn't quite as clued up as as we can as we think it is I mean and I mean going back to your film definitely not going back to your film what's kind what what's really nice about it is you make it quite accessible to people by effectively walking through a bunch of case studies of people going into labs and having tests done on them and you know I I guess you could have done another version of the film which is like you go into rural India and you meet the people and you know we all have to take your word for it. And I I think it's it's sort of like I really like that process of kind of demystifying the you know and having serious scientists talking about what they were looking at. And I guess we shouldn't forget that if you want to kind of talk about these things you you do have to have a almost establishment way in as well don't you?

Case Studies and Personal Experiences

P.A. Straubinger 35:00

Absolutely and for me it was very important to have all these doctors and first I thought you know all these specialists who talk about physiology they they they will laugh me out if I come in with such an idea and I was quite surprised that they were interested in in this stuff. And the the thing is that really the specialists who know about metabolism know that there are uh huge parts that are not explained it's only the mathematicians and astrologers uh astrologers uh not not astrologers as astronomists astronomers yeah astronomers uh I mean there must be a few astrologers and are astronomers as well by the way Neptune's in Aries at the moment just as uh an aside and you you know all all these uh scientists who are in the skeptics communities the the these famous skeptics communities who who are often not into uh physiology or uh biology and then they say ah that's this is against science and this is all stupid but they they didn't do the research how huge the the knowledge gap is in in the human body and w what we we we don't know and this this was interesting for me and and also to see uh when they they saw these studies uh how interested they they they were and how the mechan of of course they they they couldn't explain it or um say how it works but they they at least uh could see that it could be possible.

Georg Molzer 36:54

But that's good no I I've I mean didn't didn't trigger that interest on their side to be to open up a bit and look at the evidence that you collected?

Skepticism and the Scientific Establishment

P.A. Straubinger 37:05

The guys I I interviewed uh did you know were completely normal professors in at the Vienna University but just the the specialists that there were the I also got the prize for the biggest nonsense of the year in the German speaking skeptics community because you know this is like uh the church of positivists and they they they get really angry if you question their belief system and the the there are guys like comedians and and um mathematicians and and all that stuff and and they they say we are science but you know that they have no clue about physiology they they they don't know all these studies about calorimetry and and that stuff they they they they just are completely bought into this idea that we are just living on on galleries and nothing else. Did you encounter situation where you talk to a scientist and they said something on camera and then they asked you to cut it out of the movie like maybe some I don't know admitting something or like was this ever a topic or uh no I had one doctor who you he's only about four seconds uh in in the movie who was very careful you know he he didn't want to uh lean out his reputation touched by appearing in your movie yeah yeah exact exactly okay and and uh afterwards late but this was laid around because uh with the movie I in in Austria I I I got quite infamous uh as I I I got this prize for the biggest nonsense and then all that that stuff and when I wrote the book about uh intermittent fasting I did an interview with uh with the doctor and when when he found out that I did a a movie about Bretharianism then he said no I I I don't want my name in in in the book that that's that's completely uh that's completely okay you know it's it's uh I know it's really dangerous if you lean out of the window uh uh that far and for for for journalists and filmmakers it's not that dangerous but if you are into academia then it gets really dangerous and there are a few doctors I I interviewed and uh a few uh scientists uh not all are in the uh in the film as I said I I did 200 hours of of uh footage but there are a few who who lost their uh their uh jobs uh not because of of of my movie but because they they did research uh that um uh wasn't uh uh good for science like there there was a uh a professor for homeopathy in uh Vienna there was only just one professor for uh homeopathic method medicine in in Austria and you know I I don't know if uh homeopathy uh works better than the placebo effect I always say the placebo effect is uh the proof for faith healing you know you you do just some ritual and it works but and and and I'm no specialist in in homeopathic medicine but I I know that uh this professor only got the people uh where all the doctors said you know g give it to him because they they will die anyway he had he had huge uh successes and if if you uh look into uh homeopathic medicine then normally at least in the German speaking countries I don't know how it's in the English speaking countries but in in the big magazine it says you know it's all bullshit you know proven a hundred times homeopathic medicine is bullshit but if you're actually looking at the meta studies uh um uh concerning homeopathic medicine then it looks completely uh different there is a uh a meta study with I think 156 studies around homeopathic medicine questioning is it working better than placebo and more than 40% of the studies show that hopathic medicine works better than placebo only 7% of the studies show that it doesn't work better than uh placebo and uh more than around 50% are uh not sure about that question but based on on this data it's it's not scientific to say it's uh proven wrong a hundred times no you know we we are not sure I I mean again it's it's it's absolutely fascinating I mean I I love what you just said about placebo by the way I mean you know I we have a saying in English about mind over matter like you know when you want to do something and excel they go it's mind over matter and you know that the more I think about that I'm like well that's just telling you that you know your mind can do incredible things.

Dave Wallace 42:39

So you know going back to the film like you know there's some extraordinary characters that you come across. I mean there's the the uh Indian gentleman who they have in a lab for 10 days and he you know doesn't eat he doesn't urinate or defecate you know there's and you know you go well what on earth is going on there I mean and my son asked me to ask you as well he said well I'm doing biology look at the human body the human body is basically one alimentary canal with a brain attached to it and I was like well that you're right you're right but I said there must be other things going on but going back to this that that that Indian gentleman had spent years meditating you know and it was he was able to control his physiology and you know actually when you think about like what you just said about placebo that doesn't seem so extraordinary that people could do that. I mean I don't know how they're doing it but it doesn't seem out of the realms that that could happen.

P.A. Straubinger 43:49

I I I also don't know it. I I mean uh as we taught uh um talked there that there are a a few hints like uh uh our body water That our body water is a very special liquid that is able to extract energy from the surroundings. But these are all just tiny puzzle pieces. I think nobody currently knows what's going on there. And at the current state, we would have to say this is a miracle. But in my perception, what I learned during my study is that and my research is that matter isn't what I learned in school. Matter isn't these these balls flying around, it's uh frozen light, like David Bohm says. And if I have this this understanding that matter is just vibrating energy, and this solidness of matter is an illusion of my senses, then suddenly it gets more conceivable that all these miracles could happen.

Georg Molzer 45:14

100%.

P.A. Straubinger 45:15

And this is just, you know, I also don't know how it works, but I I came across so many for us miraculous things. Uh and it's not just one, you know, if if it would be just this uh Indian gentleman, then you could say, okay, it's a conspiracy of of Indian uh doctors and the military. But you know, you you find these all over the world. If especially or or with this uh idea of Bertharianism, this is just uh isn't just an idea created by some esoterics. You you find it in all cultures throughout old time. They were tested always by kings and and emperors who didn't believe it, and then they locked in this people. And you you you again and again uh got proof that there is something uh true about it, and you find these this with all supernatural phenomena. And this this was for me kind uh kind of the the bottom line that uh to to say I I I know I know nothing, and just to to to look at the world and and and and not look at the world with my explanation of the world, but to just take what what is there and then try to find an explanation. I think But for many things we just don't have an explanation, it these are mysteries.

Exploring Higher Consciousness and Personal Experiences

Georg Molzer 47:01

Like re referring to what I said in the beginning is like personal experiences, and if you ever reached like in a meditation or in a shamanic ceremony, if you ever reach like a like this higher consciousness level, or maybe you you have an out-of-body experience. Like I have a good friend who had a near-death experience, he was dead five minutes, like his heart stopped beating for five minutes, and he saw himself like in this operation room, floating, seeing his body motionless, lying on the bed. I mean, these are experiences nobody can take them from you. And and suddenly you you wonder, okay, how are all these things possible? Like, how is all the education I received in my childhood, in my teenage years, it doesn't answer these questions at all. And suddenly you really open up to many, many things, and then how I see it, I go through life, and if I encounter some explanations um for phenomena that I experienced myself, that's answers some questions, like answer more questions than raising new ones, and it just feels I don't know, relaxing to to get this new piece of information which just completes the the puzzle I have in my mind about the whole experience as a human being. I mean, I I always often start with the question I mean, who am I even? Like what what is this whole thing about here? Like, like what am I doing here? I mean, I'm talking with you guys now about a very interesting topic, but what's what's what's happening? Like, why is this all happening? And and I think these are very foundational questions where where mainstream science has no answer at all, and and all the answers they give are just disrespectful to life, I would say. It's it's not appreciating life energy because, as you say, like they're working on dead bodies, they don't even have any grasp of it, but it's it's just not um fulfilling. And and I think it's it's about being being just very open and curious, and um yeah, being also ready to just accept completely new perspectives. It's it's just it just feels much more awesome. I remember when I was a child, I was so into physics and science, and I was just reading all these books, and it gave me so much joy, and I love it. And I I think there is no mutual exclusivity on these things because it's like all the layers, but now I feel like okay, I've reached this level now, I understand some basic things, but I want to go deeper, I want to learn more, and and this is where mainstream science is just blocking itself, yeah. Absolutely.

Dave Wallace 49:33

Absolutely. I mean it it it's kind of interesting. I mean one of the other things which I'm picking up like in the in the kind of mainstream science is I'm starting to hear a lot more people go, shit, this stuff is amazing. Like suit you know, the the connection between light and life and you know, where it mitochondri you know what what a what a mitochondria does is I mean, I'm still trying to get my head around it, but they have these little engines which use electrons to twist. And they're as they twist, they turn glucose effectively into energy or ATT like and the more I'm scientists are starting to look at that and go, it is fund so I'm starting to hear scientists say actually I'm opening my mind to other things. So I've heard about a few scientists who say they pray, and you know, a few are reading the Bible, you know. So there there is a sort of I guess enlightenment maybe kind of happening around the edges. Um but to your point, like it it almost feels like the enlightenment is we all need to say we know nothing and start from a kind of a point of of sort of like everything's on the table, and you know, until it's taken off the table, we can't you can't kind of sort of go for it, whatever, whatever. So I mean I I don't know, do you get that sense at all that there might be people who are like from the traditionalist that is sort of opening their minds a bit more to this?

P.A. Straubinger 51:16

Absolutely, and in in my perception, the the more people know and the more people experience, the the more they they open up. And there is this saying from Diana Heisenberg, I I think, uh, who says if you take the first sip of the glass of science, you become an atheist. If you drink it to the bottom, you start to believe in God. And I mean, God is just a big word, but uh I think it's it's it's coming back to this respect for for life, for these miracles. Every single cell in our body is a miracle, and we consist out of billions of these miracles, and we become a new miracle. We we we could not survive one millisec second if we sh uh would have to to uh uh choose uh how this should work. So it's all a big miracle, and and if you understand that, then I think then you you look at it the right way, and then you can try to understand things better. There there is a um a famous water researcher in Austria, um uh Victor Schauberger. Actually, Gerald Pollack just uh proved his work about water electricity, and he always said uh that you have to meditate about nature, and he said he he sends out his mind to water and then it's coming back with the ideas and the explanations. And he he said first you it doesn't translate well in in English in German this the natural, it means uh to uh first to understand nature and then copy nature. And he he he made a lot of of uh great uh in inventions. I mean, like Nikola Tesla, he he uh understood how uh the the uh his his uh uh how electricity works when he saw two snakes fighting together. And the the there are a lot of stories uh of people who who got the most genius ideas when when contemplating about nature because just by recombining the things that are already there, you you don't find uh really genius stuff. So yeah, I I think this this is really important, and this is also my background about meditation, you know. Uh if if you contemplate and and if if if you you go down your subconsciousness uh to this uh layer of transcendence, then come new new ideas, and uh from there also uh this inner light comes, this coherent information that is also coming from the sun.

Georg Molzer 54:31

Which is like most of the time just drowning in the signal-to-noise ratio. This is why meditation is so awesome because you you silence your mind and your thoughts and and your senses, and suddenly you have access to to an information layer that is just not visible because it's just drowning in the in the signal-noise ratio. And I I think I mean just the thought that I had like while we were talking is like when when when you as a human being you are being formed in the in the womb of your mother, and like the the cells start dividing, like when when the the sperm hits the the egg, and I think I'm sure you've seen like this this this light burst around the course that's a chemical reaction, but but it seems like light is just a just a super foundational aspect of of life. And and when you think about the the Indian philosophies about Brahman, you know, like the the the the finest matter possible, which is like the end, and then on the other side you have spirit, or please correct me if I'm talking nonsense here, but it's like this it's it's like the photons are like the very essential measurable building blocks, and everything around it just is attracted. It's like us being consciousness, and we are attracting matter and cells to allow our separated consciousness bits to act in this world through a human body, through everything that is building upon it. But it's like it's building from the inside out, it's not from the outside in, as the Western people would say.

The Illusion of Materialism

P.A. Straubinger 56:09

Yeah, and I I uh for for me, it was so funny that a lot of ideas of Eastern philosophy are now uh more or less proven by by modern science. And as you said, Brahman, for example, when when we speak about uh the the Big Bang and what was before the Big Bang, and yeah, it's like Brahman breathing. Uh it was uh what what's telling us Eastern philosophy and this idea that that uh matter is just vibrating energy and frozen light, uh as as modern uh physicists say, and that this solidity is just an illusion of our senses, this is more or less the idea of Maya in Indian philosophy, that the the physical creation is a big illusion. It's it's the matrix. And when I when I um uh got this prize for the biggest nonsense uh of the year from the Skeptic Society, I I went there and um said thank you for this prize because they they invited me and thank you for doing all the promotion uh for my film because you know they they really tried hard that uh it's it's it's not seen anywhere and it got bigger and bigger and bigger.

Georg Molzer 57:31

So uh because it's so dangerous, right?

P.A. Straubinger 57:33

That's the Yeah, because it's such a dangerous film. And you know, it's not dangerous at all because of course I I say um a lot of times in the movie, please don't try this yourself. You know, of course it's dangerous if you just that's out of the question, but that's not the point of the film. I said the point of the film is is questioning the materialistic worldview, and then and I said, uh of course that's understandable that you shout now because this is a uh a circle of materialists, but I'm not the only one who who questions the materialistic worldview. All the big physicists did, and then I I I I ended with this quote from Max Planck, the founder of modern uh physics, where he says, you know, as a man who devoted his whole life researching matter, he can say the one thing matter as such doesn't exist. Behind matter, there is an conscious mind, and this conscious mind is the matrix of all matter. And they all were uh it was really funny. But you know that that's that's the the the whole point of of the thing, because if if you understand this, then suddenly everything opens up and everything is possible.

Georg Molzer 58:57

What happened? I mean, I think so in in the like 1900s or like in in this range, we had many scientists who were very open. You know, like they they made major breakthrough discoveries, and it was like pretty much common sense to be open-minded in these regards. And and today, I mean I think it's again changing as we talked before, but let's say in the last 20 years, it feels like anything that goes out of the ordinary is is attacked and rejected. Why why did science change so much?

The Church of Science and Its Dogmas

P.A. Straubinger 59:28

I I think it it was uh that was uh what church was before that you know you had this idea of God is now changed with the idea of matter is is everything. And in instead of the priests, we have now the scientist. Uh and you I think Brian Josephson said uh you now also have the popes in science and and the holy books, the peer-reviewed journals. And if if you say something different and have a different idea, then you are excluded out of the church of science. But this is completely unscientific, because it's most important to to question uh scientific ideas and to to question everything. You just have to bring uh a proof. And of course they all say, yeah, but the proof isn't good enough, but uh uh that's the problem. They they say if uh the the the proof uh uh that it is put forth doesn't prove the materialistic worldview, then it cannot be, and then they just don't believe it. And then this has uh to be a bad scientist, and then these doctors who studied the Indian gentleman, they uh make a big conspiracy or anything like that. They have the most crazy ideas because they just don't want to look at the actual proof that is there.

Dave Wallace 1:01:01

So, I mean, well I reflecting on some of this though, I mean it it is interesting that like your points around nature and I I mean up until maybe a hundred years ago, the majority of people were much better connected with nature. You know, and i I guess you go back a uh even further, you know, that connection was was not just a sort of living physical one, it was a religious one as well. So uh and it's sort of only in the last hundred years, which is I guess this rise of a materialistic quite patriarchal as well, you know, which is is kind of interesting.

P.A. Straubinger 1:01:43

Yeah, absolutely.

Dave Wallace 1:01:46

And it it it sort of feels yeah, there's a lot of protection in there because ultimately now there's a lot of money going, you know. Um you I I mean, Georg and I we we spend a lot of time thinking about the sun, but you know, we have yet to run into the sunscreen industry, but we will run into the sunscreen industry.

Georg Molzer 1:02:11

Or will we?

Dave Wallace 1:02:12

Yeah. We're we're hoping to at some point, because you know, there's an industry with making billions out of basically very wonky science, uh actually.

Georg Molzer 1:02:24

And fraud. I mean, partially like literal fraud.

Dave Wallace 1:02:28

We maybe don't want to say that. Um it may be fraud, maybe fraud, we don't know, but you know. But it look, and it's kind of I I think again, whilst like your film worked for me because I came away from it and I like my mind's already pretty open. Um, but the message was really clear that you know you shouldn't take anything off the table. Like even even like I give you an example, is there are a couple of the experiments where that you you show that people lost a bit of weight when they were being sort of watched in the labs. You know, and at one level you could say, well, that's evidence that they'd stopped eating, or but but then they were also under lab con these are people who rely on nature and air and sunlight to get their nutrition, and they weren't getting that. So you know, it was like, okay, well, that would probably be the answer to all of these things. So, you know, I guess my point is, is it it it sort of really helped me to open my mind. And I think as a film, like every univers every student of biology or philosophy should probably watch it because I think it it's just a very nice alternative view on something that most people can kind of understand, you know.

The Role of Nature in Human Experience

P.A. Straubinger 1:03:53

Yeah, and it it's it's what I wanted is a starting point for a discussion. Um because of course, this isn't uh giving and any answers, actually. It it's it's just thought-provoking, and then you have to go deeper and discuss it because there's so much subtext in it. And then as you just just said, it it was uh four years after I published the film when when Gerald Pollack came up with this uh uh with his research about the forced phase of water, and he said he thinks he he has an explanation for how this could work. And then for me, suddenly there was a missing link, what what I didn't understand, because one of the Kung Fu masters in my my film said you shouldn't do big u superharianism uh in in the cities because the the qi fields there are disturbed and uh you don't have a lot of um negatively charged ions because you need these negative uh negatively charged ions and good qi fields. And uh I didn't understand that. Why why speaks a Kung Fu uh doctor to me about um electricity more or less? And with the work of Gerald Pollack, I suddenly understood it because our body water is negatively charged, and we need this uh negative charge to be kind of nourished. And in indoors you have positive charge normally, uh especially if the air is coming from the from the air condition. There you go. I mean, yeah. Yeah, it it it's it's like proving uh like proving that sailing works in an indoor pool where you do not have wind. So you you have to to uh create different different study protocol to understand these things.

Dave Wallace 1:05:50

Definitely. I mean, I I love the fact you mentioned Gerald Pollock, because I I arrived at him in a slightly different way. I was swimming down a river in Finland, it was A natural river, pristine. And to your I mean you've I've forgotten who the Austrian gentleman is, but I did have a weird sensation that the river was talking to me. Wow.

P.A. Straubinger 1:06:13

And you know, it was Shelbiaga, Viktor Schalbiaga.

Dave Wallace 1:06:18

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'd definitely look him up. But I I I've been swimming it while swimming a long time, but what what I really understood is I hadn't understood water itself, and that was I I don't know, it was sort of a weird kind of spiritual moment, and um got out and you know, then ended up trying to find a bit more on water and what was going on with water, and ended up listening to a podcast with Gerald Polakin, which I think was for me, I've I found it a very moving experience actually, because of the way he talked about it, is I'd I sort of experienced and it it's sort of like uh you ran a seminar and um uh Georg sent me a picture uh of one of your slides with Jet and said, We need to talk to this bloke, and I'm like, I'm I'd love to. I'm trying to trying to kind of get him lined up because I I think he for us is a bit of a missing link.

Georg Molzer 1:07:15

And it's also like fascinating his story about like being a renowned scientist and then opening up to new stuff and suddenly he had problems in his work. It's it's like this the same pattern, even though like this man is much more intelligent than many of his critics ever could be, you know, like even on a on a complete mainstream level. This is so I think it's it's fascinating to me that people who climb up very high in the academic uh in academia and they are renowned and respected, and then they open up to to further topics and suddenly they are they are cancelled. This is for me it's really fascinating by people who have never even been in the mainstream academia academia um ladder as high up there. This is just um yeah. Fascinating. I think it's fascinating. Yeah.

P.A. Straubinger 1:08:05

Yeah, it it's like in the church. It's like what Brian Josephson said. Then you are a heretic and then you get excluded out of the church of science.

Georg Molzer 1:08:15

I never was in church, so I I mean I was in churches, but then I yeah, I wasn't raised like in in like Catholic or any way, so maybe I'm I'm just not used to these. I think it's good actually.

Dave Wallace 1:08:29

So I mean if do i I one thing that would be interesting is to go back and talk to some of the scientists now and that you had in your film and just say, well, what do you think now? Like, here's some of the other research which is out. I mean, if you were going to do a follow-up, that might be quite an interesting one. I mean, have you got any thoughts on what some of these people might say?

P.A. Straubinger 1:08:52

I mean, the the the guys I interviewed probably are still more open now. Uh where I don't think anything has changed is with these skeptic guys because they they they aren't, you know, uh uh a s a scientists uh can be uh uh uh conveyed when when uh when there is different proof, but the the these guys aren't scientists for me. They they are believers. And uh they they just use science to uh get authority but uh it's uh the uh the the philosophy of positivism was was created by a guy called Auguste Comte, and he actually wanted to create the church, and this is what we have now. And then we when we are going back to the foundations to Francis Bacon, he he had this this uh utopian idea of a world that is ruled by a cast of scientific priests, and this is now what what we got more or less. The the and and and what a lot of people want that the the science is ruled by uh the world is ruled by experts and and uh scientists. It's of course understandable and good in a way, but the the problem starts when it isn't allowed to question certain belief systems. Then it's the again the the same problem that we had with the Catholic Church in the last few hundred years. And we were so happy that we got rid of that, and now we have a a new beliefs belief system.

Dave Wallace 1:10:50

I I was reading an article about RFK trying to push back against the establishment. So he's the he's the head of you know the medical establishment in the US. And you know, he's having a real job just getting people to understand that he wants them to be more open. Like he's he's not saying I've got all the answers, he's saying, you know, so I don't know. I mean I I I hate to talk about politics and he may or may not be right about various things, but it's it's interesting how the establishment, you know, how established the esta establishment is.

P.A. Straubinger 1:11:29

Yeah, uh ideas are harder than rock, I think Max Planck said, you know, uh you cannot change an existing or an existing paradigm only changes when a new generation of people is born. You know, it's it's very hard to to convince uh people as uh when they don't have an experience that changes their mind, that if they get healed or anything like that, just by rational arguments, it's hardly impossible. And then that that's what what I also realized with my film when you try to give arguments and um uh good good proof, you know, you you cannot convince somebody if he says this is nonsense. I I tried, for example, to to enhance the Wikipedia article about my my movie with uh uh scientific journals, and then they just say, you know, if if you want to put in a piece of Gujarati medical journal, then they say Gujarati medical journal is just isn't just a good uh thing. We we don't put this in. But the private blog of the skeptics president is good evidence.

Georg Molzer 1:12:53

So then you just stop arguing because it reminds me of um like this Elon Musk quote where where he's asked about longevity and you know like removing death from from the human journey, basically, and and he's he's very much against it. And he argues that if if you if people would live forever, there would never be like this natural you know like reset. So if you're very stubborn and you live forever, you're gonna stay stubborn like this forever, and there's no room for new ideas. So death is like a built-in reset button to give chance to to new thoughts, and I uh yeah, resonates with me.

Dave Wallace 1:13:35

Control ultolema. So I one thing I'm interested in is why how you found us, by the way.

P.A. Straubinger 1:13:42

Yeah, this was really uh a great thing because I I was looking for a property on an Austrian uh real estate platform, and I I I saw how it worked.

Georg Molzer 1:13:57

I think we can say it's Wilhaben, right? I mean we are very proud that we are integrated there.

The Importance of Mindfulness in Nutrition

P.A. Straubinger 1:14:02

Wilhaby. Yeah. And I said, wow, this this is great. And uh then I I was interested because naturally I'm I I admire the sun and I I want as much sun as possible. And I was looking for another property in in the mountains, and then I wanted to see how is the sun on the 21st of December, and that's when I had to to buy the premium version. I really thought that's that's a uh a good idea because it's it's hard to convince somebody to to to pay for the premium version with an app. But you know, this you you see on on this one day how great it works, but I you know, especially when you are uh into real estate, you you need the whole year, and then you have to buy the premium version. So yeah, and it really looks nice, and and I was very surprised that it's coming uh from an Austrian founder because uh you know I I thought this is an app from Silicon Valley because it would look so perfect and and great.

Georg Molzer 1:15:11

And we will tell it's our product team.

Dave Wallace 1:15:14

Yeah, yeah. It's well they can let they'll we're forced to listen to the podcast and say, Yeah, until the end.

Georg Molzer 1:15:22

Yeah, and I mean then then then I saw your name popping up in our sales ticker. So we we always see like when somebody buys it, and then uh I was reading PA Straubinger at Oifat, I think it was really the OAF address, and and I was like, hey, this that's the guy who did this documentary, and I haven't seen it um up to we got to know each other. And and I was like, but man, this was also like the the propaganda minister of of the ÖVP, and I I really mixed you up with Peter L. Eppinger. I thought it's the same person. I didn't think about it much, you know. And I was like, how interesting, how like how you know, like diverse a person can be. And then I I googled your name because I just wanted to get a quick um idea, and then I realized, hey, that's that's a different, that's the two different persons. And then I before that, actually, I was like, okay, don't be so judgmental, whatever, be open. It's cool that this guy is buying a product. And I wanted to talk with you, so I wrote you an email and I said, Hey, I mean, we are on the on a similar mission and let's talk. And and then we met, and yeah, I'm just very happy I met you. It's it's so cool what you're doing, and um I think very inspir inspirational how you how you handle criticism and how how centered you are, um courageous as well, and and just very progressive. I think I mean 15 years ago, that's pretty wild to to produce such a such a piece. And and I'm just very optimistic and happy to see how how the world is changing. I mean, we see it ourselves, like with the business. Three years ago or two years ago, it was extremely hard to to convince um bigger customers to use Shadow Map to improve the user experience for their audiences, and now this is really opening up. So I think our time is has come.

P.A. Straubinger 1:17:10

Absolutely, because I think light, especially uh when when it's uh about uh apartments and houses and properties, I mean light is the most essential thing and then to know how how the light is falling and where the shadows are. So yeah, I I think it's uh a wonderful invention.

Georg Molzer 1:17:31

Yeah, it's actually today for the first time since I think November, I had direct sunlight into my apartment again, which is on the first floor. So my my my living room table uh took a picture. It's like a very emotional moment for me to have it back in.

Speaker 2 1:17:47

You didn't use Shadow App when you bought the Yeah, it wasn't invented back then, but I got yeah.

Dave Wallace 1:17:53

No, I I think I mean what we're seeing is the world is waking up to this. Like, you know, I think it's it's it is fantastic. I think um, you know, we believe we can do our bit, you know, we can get more people outside and in the sunshine and living lives where the sunlight is more to their preferences, then you know, we can we can really help change things. And you know, again, the conversation I had this morning was that the converse of that is people don't connect, they live inside under LED lights. LED lights are suppressing our metabolism, not just you know, keeping an even keel on them, they're suppressing our metabolism. So you you know, if we don't kind of get the message out there, then the danger is is uh, you know, we we have a generation of people, us and our children and our grandchildren all getting sicker. So um you know anyway. Well, listen, thank you so much. I I really encourage people to watch the film because not only are you an incredible human being, you're a a bloody good filmmaker as well. So uh thank you. You know, I I I really enjoyed the film. I think it needs re-releasing because I think it's almost its time is now.

Speaker 2 1:19:14

So um Yeah, I think this film doesn't get old. It's the next 3,000 years it works.

Dave Wallace 1:19:20

Georg's offered to do a um prana prana prana session. Uh come on, Gail, 21 days, it's all you gotta do.

Georg Molzer 1:19:29

So actually, uh I mean I'm I'm really be careful. I mean, I think like doing this, trying this once in your life. I mean, why not trying it? You know, like preparing properly and trying to do it.

P.A. Straubinger 1:19:45

You know, that there is this uh video diary in the movie, and uh I I wanted to try it myself. Um but you know, first you have to do a lot of fasting, and I have a lot of fasting experience, but be before that I I did prolonged times of fasting, and then suddenly I realized no way, you know, I'm I I I love food and I enjoy food so much. It it's a completely crazy idea to to put this away from from my my life. And you know, this is this is uh like the most Bretharians said, you know, if I would feel hunger or the lust for food, I would eat immediately. These guys cannot eat, and that that's a big difference.

Georg Molzer 1:20:36

Like they throw it up, right? This is what you say.

P.A. Straubinger 1:20:38

Yeah, they they they they they throw it up. And most important, they don't lose weight. You know, if if you lose weight and if you lose energy, then this is not protheranism, then you are dying. I think that's a huge difference.

Dave Wallace 1:20:52

I mean that there's a chap with his wife, and he sort of sat there while she's eating. But I was like, you know, he looks like I don't know, you're a your stereotypical kind of Austrian or German or Brit, you know, of a certain age, looks very healthy, looks very happy. And I was like, I cannot imagine a world in which I'd be able to sit there and watch someone.

P.A. Straubinger 1:21:16

Yeah, me me either. You know, I I know how good food tastes when when you do a week of fasting, and then how difficult it is when your wife sits uh across you eating.

Dave Wallace 1:21:30

And you know, that that I I I sort of had had to think about it, and I was like, well, look, our physiology is obviously designed for food at some level, but maybe being much more mindful of that food intake, you know, as you say, maybe doing more fasting, maybe you know, I'm trying to eat much more locally as well. So being much more, you know, what I what if people ask me, I'd say I'm a qualitarian now. So you know, I try and buy quality, which you know it costs more money, but it it's sort of like just kind of engaging with it as a mental process, not just sort of sitting there going, I eat, therefore I am, which seems to be the kind of modern day world way of doing things. And I sort of feel like you, you know, it it it there's a sort of continuum, isn't there? From and you want to be on the right side of that continuum, um, but you know, everybody can take the lessons I think from Bretharianism and apply it to their lives, you know, and I think a lot of it is about that being much more mindful about stuff.

Speaker 4 1:22:41

Absolutely.

Georg Molzer 1:22:42

And I think what was also um like looking back to what Pier said in the in the midst of the podcast about food being the information carrier, there's a lot of research, I mean, of not published in Nature yet, but how seasonal food is healthy to your body, like when when you eat the veggies which are available in winter versus those which are available in summer, this also has effects on seemingly effects on your health. I'm not there yet. Like I I drink my freshly pressed orange juice in the winter because I really like it, but um I'm hearing that it's really not good actually. It it it cools you down and all these things. So I think that's again like another artifact of of how the information of sunlight is really directly.

P.A. Straubinger 1:23:27

Yeah, and in in the oranges you at least have a lot of sunlight, you know, that uh the you you also even see it uh uh as I learned from biophoton research in in in eggs, you know, uh eggs that are from from hands that are uh living outside, they they have more light in them. So I th uh fresh food with a lot of light is is better.

Dave Wallace 1:23:56

Definitely. Definitely, definitely. Anyway, well thank you so much. Really appreciate it for having me.

Speaker 4 1:24:02

Thank you, Pierre.