Crossing the Pond: UK vs US Approaches to Student Housing

When it comes to student housing, the differences between UK and US approaches run deeper than terminology. Our latest episode takes you on a transatlantic journey as we welcome James Greenwood from the London School of Economics and Rebecca O'Hare from the University of Leeds for a candid conversation about student accommodation that's so rich we had to split it into two parts.

Both James and Rebecca share their unexpected journeys into student housing careers – a stark contrast to the structured pathway common in North America. With backgrounds in fields like art and events management, they represent how UK professionals often "fall into" student housing rather than following a predetermined academic track. This difference extends to recruitment practices, with UK institutions valuing transferable skills and diverse experiences over specialized credentials.

What truly connects these professionals across continents is how personal experiences shape their work. Both guests recount their own challenging living situations as students, creating a powerful motivation to improve residential environments for current students. "I don't want students to go through the poor experiences I had," James shares, highlighting how past struggles fuel present passion.

The conversation delves into philosophical questions about student identity – are they customers purchasing a service, clients receiving guidance, or stakeholders in their own educational journey? Rebecca offers nuanced perspectives, suggesting students can embody multiple roles simultaneously while emphasizing that education isn't simply a product that guarantees outcomes in exchange for tuition.

We also explore the crucial role of student staff in residential communities, examining how these positions provide valuable peer support while offering student employees transferable skills for future careers. The contrast between university and private sector approaches reveals tensions between authentic community-building and commercial interests.

This episode offers an illuminating glimpse into how cultural contexts, funding models, and institutional values shape fundamentally different approaches to student housing across the Atlantic. Whether you work in higher education or simply want to understand international differences in student experience, you'll find valuable insights in this thoughtful exchange.

Don't miss part two of our conversation, where we'll continue exploring these fascinating contrasts. Subscribe now to ensure you catch the conclusion of this enlightening international dialogue.

Transcript

Speaker 1 0:01

But it varies in the UK because there are some universities who don't have the model in place or have older versions of the model I'd argue we kind of do at Leeds, although it's better than ones I have seen like much better and there are some still advocating for what they really need or to contemporise what they have and trying to figure it out, and sometimes that's only as successful as the boss who is pulling the purse strings although I fell into this, I've become really passionate and it's linking back to my really poor experiences when I say the exact same thing, yeah yeah, I'm so passionate to make sure that I don't.

Speaker 2 0:41

You know, I don't want all the students to go through and experience some of those, those really poor experiences that I, I went through, and so, yeah, it's a natural thing for me that doing the right for doing good, really doing the right thing in student accommodation, is definitely the way forward.

Speaker 3 0:55

Don't touch that dial. You're in the right place In this episode of On Campus Off the Record. We're heading across the pond to chat with two of my brilliant friends and colleagues working in student housing or, as they say in the UK, student accommodation. We dive into the key differences between UK and US career paths and residence life, explore the value of student staff and residential communities and tackle a controversial question. Our students are customers, clients, or something else entirely? Our guests are James Greenwood, head of Residential Life at the London School of Economics, and Rebecca O'Hare, assistant Director for Residence Life and Student Accommodation at the University of Leeds. We had such a great conversation we had to split it into two parts. So grab a cuppa, settle in and enjoy part one of this insightful international exchange as we go On Campus Off the Record. Welcome to the show, rebecca and James. I can't actually remember how the three of us met.

Speaker 1 2:03

I mean Elizabeth and James. I stalked you both on Twitter, formerly known as TwitterNetX, first because I really wanted to find somebody in the private student accommodation sector who's in the same role as me. And the day I found you I was like, oh my God, I'm not the only one. So then I became obsessed with you. And then james was doing a role that I wanted to do in an arts based university in london, even though I live nowhere near london, and I was like I'd love that job. So then I became obsessed with knowing james. So I'm just a professional stalker, is what I am.

Speaker 3 2:36

That's what I'm saying, okay I'm not sure if you really want to admit that now I can't remember.

Speaker 2 2:40

I've got a memory like a sieve, so I find it really hard to remember how. But I'm just nosy and you know, I just like to know what everybody's doing. And so many memories over the years as well, which is great.

Speaker 1 2:52

You're making me feel old now, when I started in student housing.

Speaker 3 2:55

I didn't realise it was a profession. How did you start student housing?

Speaker 2 3:01

I love this question and this question comes up all the time. I know Rebecca's response. It's going to be similar to mine because we've talked about this quite a lot. But, like many people that work in residential life and housing in the UK, I fell into this. It wasn't planned.

Difficult Student Living Experiences

Speaker 2 3:17

My background is events management and marketing, so that's what my degree in my master's is is very fit, and so I always thought I always wanted to work in stadiums and running big events and, you know, doing concerts and things like that, which I could still do, hopefully one day. Um, but I then did a stint in hotels and fell into the hospitality sector and, naturally, student accommodation came along and before I knew it I was. I was doing all sorts of weird and wonderful things in in the student accommodation world and and a lot of people say the same thing I think, rebecca you we've had this conversation you know people just fall into it. It's not academic like it is outside of the UK and and we definitely don't have academic courses within the UK that would support somebody wanting to go into this formally it just doesn't exist, which is a shame. It would be nice to see that in the uk yeah, we definitely need more of that.

Speaker 1 4:07

I mean, like james, I fell into it I my background is that my degree is a ba in fine art. I did the qualification that qualifies you to teach at secondary school level or high school level. So you know an art teacher by trade but never really went into it. Did a bit, but not much, because it's very difficult to get an art teacher job in Ireland. Um, at a later stage I went back and did a master's in art and design.

Speaker 1 4:31

But my first job at a university was working like in a further education kind of establishment and I really liked working with students and they were all students who worked full-time but came either in the evening or weekends to do like part-time degrees in HR, business management or marketing, to kind of part-time degrees in HR or business management or marketing, to kind of further their career, get something better down the line. I really admired that and I loved interacting with the lecturers. I got on really well with them. But I kept seeing a job coming up in the University of Limerick that was village manager village manager and you lived in. I thought, oh, that's a cool job, but never applied and then saw it come up again.

Speaker 1 5:01

I was three years into that role and saw it come up and I applied and I remember it was my first ever really really professional interview, like a proper panel, and I can distinctly remember even though it's like 17 years ago being asked at the end and it's a question I still use now when I'm recruiting people which is do you feel you've had the opportunity to give all the information that you need in order to, you know, tell us about everything we need to know about you?

Speaker 1 5:27

And I was like, yes, actually I do, cause the interview had gone quite well and I felt that way and I love that question because it's a great catch all question at the end and the fun part is, when I got offered the role, my husband is a graduate of that university. He said at the time don't take that job. And he's like they're animals. That's what he said they're animals. And I said, listen, I was a student and I loved being a student, I loved working with students, so I would love this job living in and, you know, supporting students and he was like, okay, and it was actually a bit of a baptism of fire for me. It really was, because my living student accommodation experience was not that I didn't live in halls. We didn't have halls.

Speaker 1 6:11

I just lived in a flat with like three random girls my first year and we didn't get along, but that's a different story on a different podcast someday and, um, yeah, I mean it was a bit of a transition baptism of fire the first year, but then I discovered Red's life and here we are 17 years later, which is a bit crazy actually and linking into what you're saying there, rebecca, about that that experience when you're younger I mean my living experience when I was in student accommodation wasn't great.

Speaker 2 6:31

I didn't. I had some great experiences, but a lot of it wasn't great, and a lot of that was to do with the company that was running, you know, the property I stayed with and the university involvement, and so actually, although I fell into this, I've become really passionate and it's linking back to my really poor experiences when I say the exact same thing, yeah yeah, I'm so passionate to make sure that I don't.

Speaker 2 6:51

You know, I don't want other students to go through and experience some of those, those really poor experiences that I, I went through, and so, yeah, it's a natural thing for me that doing the right for doing good, really doing the right thing, and student accommodation is definitely the way forward like I got into my like dream university and the course I always wanted to study and I nearly were dropped out twice because I didn't get out my flatmates and we didn't have the support systems or structures in place.

Speaker 1 7:15

We didn't even have clubs and societies, which might like sounds a bit crazy kind of sounds like it blows your mind, but we didn't have clubs and societies so I had no one to go to. I felt very lonely. I thought when I went to art school I would meet my people and I didn't. Now I did make friends eventually and we ended up living together in second and third year and my experience changed. But it is, you know, when you think that you're going to do your dream course, your dream university and all that, and then it doesn't happen for you in the way that you hoped, your expectations. That meant I always think, like James, that ties back to that experience.

Speaker 3 7:48

I too fell in it. Right, my degree. I have two degrees in God, as I like to say. Uh. So I have a religion and theology degree and then um, and then a PhD. That is, my research was on higher ed and housing, but was not in that. I always felt like the outlier because I didn't have the traditional path. I was not an RA or a resident assistant.

Speaker 1 8:11

I would have been the best RA ever. You would have I feel like different times.

UK vs US Career Pathways

Speaker 3 8:16

I would have lived my best life. It's so interesting because in the US right there's a. You're an RA, then you go to graduate school to be to get a master's in student affairs, then you get a graduate assistantship and you're a hall director. So there's this like pathway. But for me I found your pathway, yeah.

Speaker 2 8:33

Having those conversations. I think it blows the mind of individuals in the US where they're like not got any academic background in this area and I'm like like, yeah, and I've fallen into it as well and it was never planned, you know. I mean.

Speaker 1 8:47

I'd like to say I kind of have an academic background because I did do an MA in student affairs, but that course no longer exists now in the UK, you know. So James is right, there are no other really programs and when that course came up they had a wait list of people and they still had a wait list from the university council. It was crazy, bring it back, or somebody else needs to set one up and there's kind of other ones in student engagement, but there's nothing like what people are doing in the US or North America generally and you've all got PhDs coming out of your ears.

Speaker 2 9:16

No, it's interesting.

Speaker 3 9:17

And you can't. And you know, working on the university side, I often have this conversation with people of, like, it's very hard to get a director or above job head of job without a terminal degree. And but because barrier like to recruitment, well, it depends on who's hiring you Right? Because, like so, gay Perez, who you both know right, it was the former president of a KUHOI and she is the I don't know what her actual title is, but, um, she's the head of housing and residence life at the university of virginia, which is a very well-known university in the us doesn't have a terminal degree, right? So it really just depends. And I think what I appreciate about the global perspective of of student accommodation is to fight those narratives of what is what is the right path. It's the complete opposite.

Speaker 2 10:06

Yeah, in the uk it's completely opposite. You know, when I'm doing shortlisting I do a lot of recruitment. I've got roles advertised now and lots of other roles coming up soon I want to say james, did you?

Speaker 1 10:16

yeah, that's one if you're interested in working at lse.

Speaker 3 10:20

Check it out.

Speaker 2 10:21

Yeah, there's lots more on the way, go join James' team.

Speaker 2 10:23

He's awesome. Yeah, yeah, yeah, watch his face. But yeah, more importantly, when I do that recruitment and I do the shortlisting, I don't tend to look at academic background. I will always look at the experience over the academic background. I'll always look at have they done roles and it doesn't have to be specifically working in. It's very unlikely they would have worked in student housing within the uk um. But you know, if they've got hospitality background, if they worked in events, have they done um, maybe a counseling background, maybe they've worked for our national health service and and done some great work there.

Speaker 2 10:54

So I'd be looking for those skills because I believe in cross skills and I believe in that. You know I want a very diverse team that have got all different skill sets and aren't all the same individual, because you know that would want a very diverse team that have got all different skill sets and aren't all the same individual, because you know that would be a very boring team number one, but also we'd be we wouldn't be very productive. So you know, I do believe in looking at the experience. Academic, you know, is important and I will still look for that and I will. I will look for some form of formal qualification, but it doesn't have to be super relevant and, and you know, my background isn't that um, you know, rebecca's got an art background. I've got an art background at my lower degree level, so there's so many rtp for student accommodation as well you know that uk us approach there in terms of recruitment is fascinating, but also the models are so different.

Speaker 2 11:41

Yes, and so I can see why. When we look at the US with a live and learning model, I can see why recruitment is set up that way that you're looking for people that have lived, that been through that, you know, have got formal qualifications, and I do get it. But, as you say, elizabeth, I think there's huge benefits in looking at and it is a word we don don't always use the customer words people that have worked in customer experience, hospitality experience, used to providing really high levels of service and going above and beyond. That's what we want.

Speaker 3 12:12

We want people that will go above and beyond to deliver the best service they can for our students or customers to be honest, you know I've we've had a lot of conversations lately about whether or not our graduate programs, which are supposed to be the recruiting, are preparing the people in the right way, because it is about being able to take care of people and it's about giving that service while also being able to be with them in those uncomfortable situations.

The Value of Student Staff Roles

Speaker 2 12:38

I think there's a huge benefit too with the student-based roles that we've got in our residences. I think that number one it's great for peer-to-peer support. So when we employ students to support the students, that's brilliant and should always be there, because you know students, students love speaking to somebody on their way, same wave level in the same age great. But it also provides some fantastic opportunities for those students for the future. So, yes, they will get their academic background.

Speaker 2 13:06

But to leave LSE, for example, or another university, to say that I worked in residences, I dealt with these really difficult situations, that's so powerful. When they're going for a job interview, the job probably hasn't got any relevance, especially at LSE. If they're going into law or politics, definitely working in residential life probably doesn't have a direct relation, but there's some transferable skills. And to be able to say I worked under pressure, I had to really work on my own and, you know, work out of hours and make quick decisions, that's really powerful and I really believe in student roles too and what that does for the future of those students is just it's great.

Speaker 1 13:47

Yeah, they get phenomenal experience. I mean, there's so many things that's happened in the last couple of years where we've had student interns and then obviously you've got the resident assistant roles, like James will have, and I can remember going up to interns afterwards and saying, okay, this event is over. And when you have time, you need to reflect and write and everything happens in the role that you played, because this is an incredible interview example that you can use someday, because where would you get the range of things that happen? And it'll blow the mind of people recruiting you for whatever your dream job is, further than the line to say you dealt with what at 2 am in the morning.

Speaker 3 14:17

I mean yeah, incredible, like absolutely incredible stuff and I think that that student role piece is is so interesting because when I worked in the on the private side right, part of my job was to implement student roles in private housing and you see that it's called, you know, ambassador programs or things like that.

Speaker 3 14:36

But they're from my experience and there's they're still on the marketing side of things, right. They're kind of whether that's kind of event marketing or content marketing and my role was to really build it into the operational kind of pulse and it was based on kind of a North American, kind of traditional RA role, but obviously that's not going to fully translate across in different countries. But what was so amazing to me is how it worked, because no matter where students come from, no matter if it's private or university based, there are still groups of students who want to stay connected with other students who and these are we still did duty, we still did duty shifts, right, we had to change the way we compensated and things based on the country. But these students they didn't just want to like, they wanted to help other students and they had no idea what this role was. They'd never even heard of anything like this and they still. It, still. It blows my mind.

Speaker 2 15:46

It's quite refreshing to hear that and, you know, I think it's great because what we hear in the UK quite a lot and I'm quite passionate about this is that, especially in the PBSA sector, they do take on a lot of these ambassador roles and, as you say, Elizabeth, they're very much marketeers and to get other students to sign up and rebook the following year. There's no real substance behind the role, and what I want to see and it's great to hear that you've implemented that, elizabeth is that real substance about what are those students going to do to improve that community or improve the well-being or improve the academic outcomes of those students within that building not, you know, potentially selling the brand or the lifestyle of living there, because because, yeah, that's not what it's about. And so it's quite refreshing to hear that, elizabeth, it's really great, yeah.

Speaker 1 16:34

I mean, that's why I left the private sector, because I just felt that it was a bit superficial in terms of, like, working in residence life. It's red light, but it was never real res life right, and I was always a bit conscious that people on the outside working universities would have thought that of me or of my job that it's. It's not a real res life job, you know, know, and I knew that I haven't understood what it can be and what it should be, and so I was always trying to find a way back into universities. I remember really wanting to run my own res life team, and that's what I do now, as well as our comm team.

University vs Private Sector Models

Speaker 3 17:08

But yeah, I still don't believe that anybody in the private sector does it well at all or cares about it in the way that it should be cared about and it anybody in the private sector does it well at all or cares about it in the way that it should be cared about, and it was interesting. I think I mentioned this at the class conference, right, but it was very interesting because I had to have the kind of c-suite level um, uh, approval, right and the support. And there was a point, though, where I was asked by the coO why do we have these right? They seem to just be costing us money. What is the business value proposition for RAs, an RA type of role, and I would call my compadres in the US and I'd say, like, actually, why do these exist? And after some analysis and research, I was actually able to create a business case for these roles, and so we continued. While at a university, these types of roles are just assumed and have innate support.

Speaker 1 18:03

But it varies in the UK because there are some universities who don't have the model in place or have older versions of the model I'd argue we kind of do at Leeds, although it's better than ones I have seen much better, and there are some still advocating for what they really need or to contemporize what they have and trying to figure it out, and sometimes that's only as successful as the boss who is pulling the purse strings or has control of that or who understands what it is and why it's important and what great looks like.

Speaker 1 18:34

I know lots and lots of people who've reported into directors or more senior individuals who just don't get it and just see it as an expense and will strip it back or give you the bare minimum, which isn't enough, and then it's set up to fail anyway in the first instance of course, and they're not going to invest more into it. And now that in the UK we have lots of universities and redundancy measures over 90 at the moment I have colleagues working in those universities and it's those areas are getting targeted or professional services generally and roles getting made redundant or funds being stretched back for another couple of years. So so really varies in terms of understanding what it is really varies in terms of understanding what it is.

Speaker 3 19:14

And knowing, I think, having having the knowing the case of what's going to to. For the CEO it was one thing, it was about community, it was about it was about engagement, building the brand, and for the other one, it was about return on investment. And how do I show that this is actually? We're getting a lot bang for our buck.

Speaker 2 19:33

I find it that that that bit bit, though quite lucky in terms of working in a university, because generally, we're taking on those roles as student roles, as student supporting roles, because it links into the wider ethos of our institutions, our strategy, and there's lots of streams, hopefully, if you're doing it right and you're thinking about the wider impact on the student community and the widens, and it isn't about return on investment.

Speaker 2 19:56

Yes, we need to break even and, yes, we need to stay within our budgets and our frameworks, of course, but I quite I feel quite lucky in the university that we can do that and do it. Do it in a really authentic way, rather than a, you know, a salesy way or a marketing way or looking cool on social media way. Um, although I, we do look quite cool on social media, I must say, um, but it's not about, it's not about selling the lifestyle, it's not about selling rooms. It's about authentic, using students to show a really authentic view of what we do and it's about that. We care, we're doing the right things and we'll be there to support you when you need it and you might never need that, and that's fine, but we are here to support.

Speaker 3 20:34

Yeah, and I think that level of support really goes to a deeper question of who are our students? Are they customers, meaning that we provide them a service, we were selling them a product, we're making things as smooth as possible, removing all barriers. Or are they more of a client, where we advise them, we show them the way, we offer them expert advice, we give them resources, but they are kind of the makers of their own journey?

Speaker 1 21:03

oh, I've never heard described as clients before. Yeah, I'm always having this argument like student as partner, student stakeholders is a customer experience, student experience I mean, I could go off, go off on one of that alone, like Like, so, yeah, clients, isn't it?

Customers, Clients, or Stakeholders?

Speaker 2 21:16

We would use some of that language, for sure at LSE. It depends on the level of study, because we would definitely use the word client when it's an executive course and a high-level course. We wouldn't use the word student. In fact, I think the word student is probably banned in those departments. They would never use that because these are CEOs of some of the leading companies. You know they won't want to be called a student.

Speaker 3 21:36

Yeah, rebecca. What are your thoughts?

Speaker 1 21:39

I am always debating whether it's customer, students or whatever. I think it can be both. It's kind of what I settled on. Personally it sounds like a complete cop-out and I work in the facilities director at the University of Leeds and that is like the commercial arm of the university and so that word customer is used quite a bit and I've been reflecting on it quite a bit because I think actually the whole phrase student experience I've probably attached to my identity quite a bit and so when someone says customer, I'm like oh, that kind of irks me a little bit. I feel a bit like you know, I shudder almost a little bit, but I get it. I understand that I'm kind of pushing myself out of my comfort zone thinking about it in that space. So for me, you know it's both. But I don't like it in terms of customers product because you buy a product, say you spend you know a thousand pounds on something or like a five-star holiday and you expect to get that.

Speaker 1 22:30

Yeah, sometimes there's this kind of like language or conversation about students paying £9,000 a year for a degree in the UK, which to our North American friends will sound very cheap because we know how expensive tuition is in North America, but the expectation is sometimes that in exchange for that tuition fee, you will get a first class honours degree. That's not how it works. The product isn't the same in that sense. That's why it's a bit uneasy with me. It's not like hey, pay 27 000 pounds for your three-year degree and we will give you a first class honors degree or the top of the class award, whatever it is. There's onus on the student. They are a stakeholder as well, and it's so much more than just getting a degree. It is the entire experience, your confidence, the friendships that make the opportunity to do work experience and a whole plethora of other stuff. And for me, then, that's why it's a bit more about stakeholdership and student experience and customers as well.

Speaker 3 23:28

And that's a wrap on part one of our conversation with James and Rebecca. We've only just scratched the surface, so be sure to catch part two, where we dive even deeper into the UK-US exchange. In the meantime, don't forget to follow and subscribe so you don't miss it, and if you enjoyed this episode, make sure to share it with a friend. Thanks for listening. I'm your host, elizabeth Cox, and this has been On Campus Off the Record.