Why some really take an RA job and other wisdom: A chat with Dr. Pam Schreiber

"Don't tell me what you did. Tell me what you learned."

You can run a huge higher education portfolio and still not be the technical expert on everything. The real edge is being able to learn fast, ask better questions, and make high-stakes decisions before the picture is complete.

We sit down with a retired Executive Director of Housing and Dining from the University of Washington to unpack what actually prepares someone to lead: the grit of doctoral work, the discipline of reflection after a bad call, and the humility to tell your team, “I got that wrong, and here’s what I’ll do differently.” We also get practical about communication when a decision lands unevenly, because in campus housing and residence life, “win-win” is rarer than people admit.

The conversation then widens into career paths and hiring. If you’ve ever felt behind because your resume looks like a zigzag, you’ll hear a different standard: don’t lead with titles, lead with learning. We talk about interviews, professional development (including entry-level and senior housing officer institutes), and why values-based growth planning outlasts any trend in policy or procedure.

Finally, we go inside student housing redevelopment decisions: funding realities, P3 creativity, value engineering, and the long-term maintenance and operating costs that can either protect or punish future students. We close with a clear north star for higher education leadership: walk the talk, stay true to mission, and build experiences that help students learn to live.

If this resonates, subscribe, share the episode with a colleague, and leave a review telling us what leadership lesson you learned the hard way. 

Transcript

Learning as a Super Skill

SPEAKER_00 0:00

As you you retired from being uh an executive director of housing and dining, you had a large portfolio, um probably a hundred million or or over. Um what what do you think was your your biggest kind of your biggest learning uh that prepared you for a role like that?

SPEAKER_01 0:18

I think um what best prepared me for that was um well, I I'll go back to my um doctoral work experience. And it wasn't the in this case, it wasn't so much the content of the program. It was getting through that program and working on a dissertation and going through that typical process. And I remember at one point, at one point, preparing for my defense, and someone saying to me, You are the expert on this topic. No one else knows it as well as you do. And it was a kind of a bizarre topic, to be frank with you. You took it from not knowing anything about it to now being this expert. So if if so, when I walked away from that, what I knew about myself was I had the ability to learn on almost anything I needed to. And in in in leadership roles like the one I had at UW, I didn't need to be an expert on all of that. Trust me, right? You know, you don't have time to become expert. But what I did, what I feel was very significant is I had the ability to learn what I needed to know to number one, ask questions and make decisions. Um, and you know, you do that sometimes with a lack of information, but you know, but you have to know when do I have enough information and how did I get that information through learning, whether that's questions, reading, sitting at meetings, whatever the case may be. And so I think that was the thing that I took into that role that served me um the best.

Decision Making and Power

SPEAKER_00 1:57

And so what was as you think about that, was there ever a decision that you regretted? And what did you learn from that?

SPEAKER_01 2:09

Well, I that's funny because the answer is yes and yes and yes. I there I made a number of decisions that you know I regretted. And um, you know, the the key is after each one of those, you do have to take that time to step back and say, okay, what happened? What did I learn from this, right? What was missing, or what did I do, or what did I not do? Uh-huh. You know, and in some cases you reach the conclusion, it's only after the fact that I now realize that decision wasn't good, right? Yeah. I didn't make it, I didn't make the decision with the idea that, oh, this isn't going to be a good decision. Um, but that's not to say that I couldn't have done other things to to have it turn out differently. And um, I think that as a leader, you have to take that time to be reflective. I think you need to, in some cases, communicate to the right people that that's the conclusion you've arrived at. I made the wrong decision. Here's what I here's what I would do differently, or I will do differently going forward. So that, you know, particularly people that work with you and for you understand that you are a reflective leader and you can you can put yourself through that process that you know you you have and will likely make other mistakes. Um there's consequences to certain mistakes that you can't get out of, but but generally I'm fortunate that the mistakes I did make, I was able to recover and and you know, uh certainly learn from. But you know, being in a decision-making position just doesn't mean you get to call the shot. It's you've got it, you have got to navigate, you know, what that decision creates or doesn't create. And so um thinking some of that through um it is very important, but don't expect that a decision will be a total win-win. I mean, it's rarely, I can't even think of one where it was so clear that oh, this is just going to be of benefit to everybody and and and everything, you know. Um, so that's important to keep that in mind and and to get comfortable with that.

SPEAKER_00 4:20

Thank you. I think that that's helpful. I think the idea that the decision, there's even though it might be a clear decision, understanding that it might it might feel like a whole win, but for someone it's not gonna be a win, that's really that's really good advice.

SPEAKER_01 4:33

It's important to say to staff, I'm sorry, it's important to say to staff, like I made a decision and it's gonna impact you. Yeah right. And so I want to talk through with you what we can do, you know. So to, I mean, part of that is engaging people and helping them understand to an extent all the variables you had to deal with, but then how how can you bring them into finding the way to mitigate any impact? So that's important too. It's not, you know, just you.

SPEAKER_00 5:03

Yeah, no, that's I think that's helpful as well. And I think a bit challenging to navigate when the why doesn't feel like it's enough. Yes, yes, and and um, but you still have to just keep keep on keeping

Growing Into a Housing Career

SPEAKER_00 5:16

on. What did you think you were gonna do uh when you graduated college?

SPEAKER_01 5:20

Yeah, for sure. Well, I was um a social work major. Okay, and so I believe that that's what I was going to do. And I was actually quite interested in being in a medical setting. Oh, um, you know, there's a lot, lots of places where social workers are of great value and and environments or settings where they work. Um, but I was really drawn toward the medical um area. And um, I didn't necessarily want to be a clinician, you know, it's not like it was the an alternative to med school or something, but I just found it really intriguing and I liked the idea of being around um kind of all these really super smart people who were helping folks to get oftentimes from a what is essentially a pretty crisis situation from a health point of view into a non-crisis situation. So that was my goal. Um, and I took the RA job. Um, you know, I've I've admitted this for a lot of years, so I'll tell you, I needed money. You know, I needed a job and I wasn't a work study student, but I needed more. And so when I learned that the RA's got room and a dining plan, I was all in. And I actually made that great interview mistake, you know, why do you want to be an RA? Because I need the money. Um, was hired anyway, and the rest is history. But um, so I I wanted to do that. And then when I graduated with my degree, um, the the country was in a recession. And so social services were, you know, nobody was hiring, right? And so I um roundabout learned about the Oshgosh placement exchange and how you know I could go and and potentially use my RA role um to get a hall director job. And that's what I did. So it worked out, and you know, I still had my eye on returning to social work. Um I landed a job at Bowling Green, and and because they paid for grad school and my financial situation, I thought, well, this is pretty sweet. So that's what I pursued. And I I really haven't looked back, but I also have never abandoned my social work training, right? It and and I don't think anybody would be surprised to know that the parallels are incredible. The the the value, the utility of what I learned there just flowed right into the work that we do on campuses.

SPEAKER_00 7:37

One of the things I think has been really valuable about these conversations is normalizing that there isn't a normal path. And everyone, everyone enters for similar reasons, but the way that they got into it is their own individual way. Do you think we're we're getting more open to those zigzag careers? Or do you think that the kind of traditional path, and I say that in air quotes, is still favored over a non-traditional path?

Hire For Learning Not Titles

SPEAKER_01 8:08

Yeah, I think it's hard to say. I think, you know, we always when we hire people, we want to know that they um are prepared or can be prepared for the position we're going to put them in, right? Right, right. Um, I've adopted this approach to talking to candidates. And the advice I would give them is don't tell me what you did, tell me what you learned. Right. Because if you can give me evidence that you have learned that what the position I'm putting you in, because you're gonna have to learn in it, right? Because it's a step up for you. So, you know, you're not doing it now, it's gonna be new. And if you can demonstrate to me that you can learn what you need to learn to do the job, I don't really care what you've done before. Um, I mean, I care, but at the but but but not in the in, you know, in like it has to be some lockstep career process because we all have we all know some people who have gone through all the right steps.

SPEAKER_00 9:01

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 9:02

And you know, they kind of they just don't they they don't flourish in a role because I think they focus more on what to do or how they have done things versus what was the meaning of what they did. Yeah, why did they do it? Do they understand the why? Do they understand because the how to is is kind of irrelevant if you understand the why, right? So I hope that anyone interviewing today, as well as candidates, that people start focusing on what did you learn and how how will you adapt and learn and be successful in this new position?

SPEAKER_00 9:40

There are so many things that I've experienced in in residence life and housing that I never would have imagined. So like we we can't predict what will happen, but if we can gather the skills that help us adapt and learn the questions to ask, I think that is just as important.

Choosing how your develop your career

SPEAKER_00 9:57

Do you think that should change how we do things like how we do our professional, like our foundational professional institutes like Rely, um, so the Regional Entry Level Institute or NHTI, which is, you know, for aspiring senior housing officers who want to kind of grow.

SPEAKER_01 10:19

Well, it's interesting you mentioned that because um we've been fortunate to have NHTI come to the University of Washington, um, just recently finished the second of three years. And, you know, we put a strong emphasis in in having it come to the UW, we put a strong emphasis, not to say, you know, that others hadn't, but we made sure to put an emphasis on the professional development planning and the ability to for for participants to step back and say, what are my values? What are my likes? What am I good at? What do I need to become better at? And then how do I make decisions throughout my entire career when different things are thrown at me, expected and unexpected, right? And I think that always needs to be a component of all of our institutes, you know, because the information presented could be a could be relevant for a week and then it's not relevant anymore. And so while the information is important and clearly good faculty members will present concepts and theories and philosophies that will transcend, you know, changes, um, at the same time, people need skills in navigating their career, you know, they really do. And we have to we have to help them develop those skills, you know, back to the and I and I I completely believe that one of those huge skills is lifelong learning. Like how do I learn as I go through this process about myself, about the field, about what I'm a the role that I have.

SPEAKER_00 11:48

So yeah, okay.

Parents, enough said

SPEAKER_00 11:50

Has there been anything as you've seen kind of uh in your career that you're like, I never thought this would happen and it's happened?

SPEAKER_01 11:58

Wow. Um it's hard to kind of transport myself back, you know, 35 years ago. I'm sure, I'm sure there are things that if I could go back to that self and say, hey, guess what happened? That that self would say, no way. Um, but you know, things evolve uh and and emerge over time. And so as you're in the mix of your work, you you you often don't see it so much as um a uh a significant change as an evolutionary uh kind of thing happening, right? Yeah. And if you're if you're if you're you know committed to your job, you're going to explore that evolution, you're going to try to understand it, and you're going to try to adapt to it as best as you can. I I think I'm not I can't really answer your question because I just can't think of anything, but but I will say this that it took me a while to adjust to the parental engagement.

SPEAKER_00 12:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 12:56

You know, in I mean, back in the day, I mean, and we were actually coached and trained on this, like you don't talk to parents, you know, and so when that started to become more prevalent, I found myself being pretty resistant. And then I finally figured out, and I'm sure others had to do with this realization that as an as a collegiate administrator, I want the same thing for the student that the parent wants. I want them to be successful, right, in all the ways. I want them to be socially successful, academically, et cetera. And so if I think about being a partner to the parent, right? And and we all know that now because we talk about that now in with very different in very different terms. But when I started, even as a hall director, you know, it was kind of this edict, like you don't talk to parents, you know, we're here for the students. And and um, so all of that evolved and and I had to evolve with it too. And I think it's for the best, for sure. Um, but I do remember, you know, for a point, for a time kind of digging my heels in because I was, you know, hearing this voice in my head about how we work with parents and so really adapted and changed my approach with parents. And and you know, once I figured that out, things things went much better.

Proud Moments And Lasting Legacy

SPEAKER_00 14:16

What are you most proud of?

SPEAKER_01 14:19

Oh my goodness. Um when I arrived at the UW, the board had just approved in concept a very extensive redevelopment plan for housing and and dining. Yeah, and it was other team members that got it that far. And so um when I joined, we were just um preparing to kick off the first phase of that. But in my time there, um, we spent, you know, I spent 12 of the 16 years in this redevelopment plan. Um, the end result, I mean, just so many people contributed. I I cannot take that credit, but but to be involved in it and to and to be able to influence it clearly is is one of the things that I most enjoyed and was most and am most proud of, um, for sure. Um uh because it's rare that you have that opportunity to influence design, you know, and the you know, of buildings and and and many of us get to do that once or twice, but we were in a mode where every year we had new buildings coming up, you know. So it was a very massive, very massive redevelopment. And I'm very proud of the final result.

SPEAKER_00 15:34

And was that was was that where you started? Was that some P3 as well, or was it all campus?

SPEAKER_01 15:41

Yeah, it was it was all campus up until um, so our most recent project is being funded as a result of a P3. Um, I mean, um the project's being funded with cash, but the cash came from a P3 arrangement, a very creative arrangement. Um, and again, credit to so many other people at the UW that that were part of that um that creative solution, but also executing on the plan. But but the majority of the plan that I was talking about all funded through debt through the university. Um and quite interestingly, you know, we started in in 09 and um construction was cheap.

SPEAKER_00 16:24

Yes, oh my god. Money was cheap. Wow, wow, and money neither money nor construction is exactly, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 16:32

So I think we ended up from a timing point of view when at first it may have looked like it didn't make sense to do it, it may financially it was fantastic. And we got through almost all of the plan prior to, to your point, the construction cost going up and and the cost of money going up too. So um, yeah, we we rode the wave.

SPEAKER_00 16:55

Yeah, I mean as as uh folks have said, the the era of of cheap money and and cheap goods is is over. And I think anyone who's building right now, particularly in the US, if you even if you started a project a couple of years ago, now as you're as you go into kind of DD and and uh value engineering, you see that the costs have probably risen in a way that you didn't think for reasons that may be market driven, they might be geopolitical, um, you know, the program hasn't changed. No, just the world I think has has changed. How did you how did you and your team kind of make those decisions?

SPEAKER_01 17:33

Yeah, with the things you you said, right? I mean, you think about what what is the intent of this building or this space? Like and what what do we want students to experience and what kind of behavior do we want to encourage? And so when you're faced with value engineering, you you keep asking yourself, how might eliminating this thing, you know, have this overall long-term impact? So I think that that was a guiding principle for us is thinking about the student experience and and being really open to the fact that some of the things that we thought early on were really going to matter to students didn't. And so you you change, you don't just keep doing the same thing. Um, and then the so that's really important. Um, and then the other thing you have to think about is what is the long-term liability of that facility? So if you cut certain things, um, and sometimes you don't have a choice because you have a certain amount of money to build the building, that is it. Yeah, but if you end up creating operating expenses, you know, and put that on the backs of the future students, right? Then you've got to really think about is it is is there a creative way to find either additional money or to offset something else that isn't going to have the long-term operating impact, right? Because I mean, we all know this. If you build a cheap building, you're gonna pay for it in the long run.

unknown 18:57

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 18:58

Either because it's yeah, it's energy inefficient or things break down more quickly. And so the ongoing maintenance and operation of that building is gonna cost you. And so you really have to understand how those things work in concert. Because when you build a building, you are leaving something for the people that come after you, right? And you don't want to leave them a dud, right?

SPEAKER_00 19:20

Right, right. Exactly. And I think that goes back to a little bit about um, you know, building for long term versus building for short term, not just in the materials and the systems, but in the design and thinking about going back to the basics of who are we as humans, how do we develop, and what is the role of a residential experience and on campus experience?

SPEAKER_01 19:47

Yes, exactly. Exactly. That's so important. And you know, none of us, although we wish it, we don't have a crystal ball. And so you have to think, you know, you have to, yeah, you have to think about those things and and be quite open, you know, to considering alternatives. And I I think you made the point earlier, like go back to what are your core values and your core purpose? If what we're trying to do is give students an experience within community, well, there's a lot of ways of doing that, and the ways we've been doing that have have likely worked well, but is will there be a need for us to adjust how we go about that? But you to your point, the fact that we want students to have an experience in community and you know we're gonna grow them up in that process, that has not changed, and I don't believe it will ever change.

SPEAKER_00 20:40

What do you think your legacy has been?

SPEAKER_01 20:43

Let me just say that. I hope my legacy is that um I was a model for folks to walk the talk, right? To to practice in a way that was congruent with what we say we do, yeah, right. Serving students um and doing it in a way that that held up their um that that our job was to help them have that experience so they could become a functioning, you know, effective, successful adult. Um, I can't take credit for this, but for for many years at UW, our residential life tagline has been learn to live. And I love it, it's brilliant, um, you know, because it's learn to live as a roommate, learn to live as a scholar, learn to live as a community contributor, learn to live as a world citizen, right? And so keeping that, I hope that people would remember my work to say, yeah, she always stayed true to what our core purpose was. And maybe, you know, maybe she made some decisions I didn't agree with or did some things that, you know, that that that were mistakes, but never left, you know, never abandoned the core mission. Um college changed my life, and so I knew of the transformational power that it has, and I believe in it, you know, from my head to