What Makes Us...
A podcast exploring in how we develop as people through our experiences and connections between individuals, with groups, and amongst society. Our guests will choose the topic of discussion and share their journey of becoming who they are.
Join us as we explore What Makes Us...
What Makes Us...
Transform with Preethi
Ever wondered about the difference between change and transformation? While change is external, transformation is a profound internal shift that redefines who you are. Mastering it can unlock the life you truly desire.
Leadership coach Preethi Subramanian, who transitioned from chartered accountant to IT security professional to leadership coach, and moved between India, Switzerland, and Singapore, discovered that transformation isn't an event, but a culmination of consciously navigated transitions.
Preethi's powerful framework helps maintain direction during life's "messy middle" moments. Her internal compass uses purpose-aligned questions: Why make this change? How does it honor your values? Where does it lead in relation to your vision? When is the right timing? This keeps you grounded even when the path is unclear.
A key insight is the growth-versus-security dilemma. Prioritizing growth, expanding capabilities and perspectives, ultimately yields greater rewards than clinging to comfort. This aligns with Maslow's hierarchy: self-actualization happens when you venture beyond your comfort zone.
The ultimate reward is freedom of choice—the power to create a life aligned with your deepest values. This freedom is transformation's greatest gift.
Ready to transform your life? Growth awaits, and your next breakthrough might be just one conscious transition away.
Connect with Preethi: preethi@masterscollectiveservices.com or on LinkedIn
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If you would like to connect to the host (Brian Hooks), please reach out to bchcoaching@gmail.com or check out or website at www.bchcoaching.net
Welcome to what Makes Us. This is a podcast exploring in how we develop as people through our experiences and connections between individuals, with groups and amongst society. We'll be bringing on guests to discuss how they've come to be who they are and along the way, we may end up learning something about ourselves. So please sit back and enjoy. You're listening to what Makes Us.
Speaker 2:Welcome to what Makes Us. I'm really excited for our conversation today. Today we're going to be what makes us transform with Preeti, and Preeti we just met earlier this year actually, so not too far, not too long ago and I'm really excited to have her with me today and just for our listeners. We're kind of on location, so we're out and about and it's really exciting because it's a different space for us to have this conversation. So I'd just like to have Preeti say welcome and introduce yourself to the audience.
Speaker 3:Sure Thanks, brian. Thanks for having me here. I'm equally excited and I love the setup that we are in. It's very calming and you know I'm looking forward to have this conversation with you and see what comes. You know we always allow something to happen when we are making these conversations. Just a little bit about myself. I'm Preeti Subramanian. I'm currently a leadership coach, trainer, speaker and soon-to-be author, so I'm doing a lot of things.
Speaker 2:Congratulations. Soon-to-be author. Not, we did not mention that earlier.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I was not sure I'm in the process of writing something awesome and I'm looking forward to just exploding and let the magic happen as I write just like this conversation yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, I definitely it will definitely come up later because we're, as we're, talking, about transform and doing, and being an author is a huge transformation yes, so that is, that is great.
Speaker 3:Yes, thank you. Um, so this is what I do right now. I have had a few different kind of paths in, you know, in my life in terms of career transitions, in terms of where I lived, so I and I would like to say more about it as we get into the topic of transform, and I'm looking forward to sharing a lot more details about that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, that's great. Well, I feel like we're jumping right in, so let's just go for it, right? So you chose the topic transform. So what made this really important for you in talking about this concept of transform?
Speaker 3:Sure. So my life has been a series of changes and transitions. Just to give you an example, in the career perspective I started as a child accountant in India, just heavily on finance, accounting, tax, you know all the number games. And then I moved immediately. When I looking at a career transition, I moved into it audit. It's a kind of an audit, nothing to do with the numbers, it's more to do with processes and risks and and so on and so forth. So I transitioned into uh, cyber security in a way, and that was most of my career. And my third transition is now as a coach I would say.
Speaker 3:The third career is as a coach and a leadership coach.
Speaker 3:They're very different in terms of technical perspective, domain knowledge, the kind of people you meet. It's very different in that way. So this is one example. The other example is I have moved to live in different countries. Yeah, so, yeah. So from india I moved to switzerland. I lived there for about seven years and then I moved to singapore, lived there for about seven years, and then I moved to Singapore, lived there for about 12 years and now I'm back in India, and now for three years. So if you see the theme, you know when I sat back and reflected, okay, what is really happening In the last few years I've had some time for myself as I transition into this new role that I have right now certainly the theme of transformation emerged as the loudest that.
Speaker 3:I can. That's the one word to describe the path that I chose to live this life, and I've been very conscious about it. So that's the reason why I'm so passionate. So I'm so passionate that I now identify myself consciously as a change champion, somebody who can embrace. Champion on my own and also inspire change and transformation. Outside of me, I know a lot of people don't get comfortable with the idea of change, right, and. I love to make a change happen in that perspective.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 3:So that's why I've chosen this transformation, because that's comes out of a lived experience and with a lot of reflections I have done how did I go through about change the easy ones and not so easy ones?
Speaker 2:right all together, so that's where it comes from you know, as you're talking in, it's just amazing to jump from India to Switzerland, to Singapore and then back to India. That's completely three different cultures, right, in three different environments and all kinds of stuff. How did you manage to do those shifts? Because I feel like there's a difference between change and then there's also this transition piece. Right, there's a having to transition to different cultures and then changing from those different spaces.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:Can you talk a little bit about that?
Speaker 3:Absolutely. You got that right, because I see change a bit more distinctive than transitions, transitions. So when I first started to reflect on this, my, I would say, definition, how I define change as something that's external, right, something that people can understand and something that you can easily explain, like I'm like oh, I'm going to change the place I live in, I'm going to change my home, I'm going to change, I'm moving houses, for example, I'm moving countries. All of these are very external. It can be easily mentioned and be understood. That's change, or even promotions, for example, or change in a job, any sort of thing that's easily understandable. That's kind of externally oriented Transitions. In the other sense, it's about the internal shift that happens To be able to adapt that change. So these are very subtle, these are very internal and not very easy to explain to people.
Speaker 3:It's something that you start identifying, acknowledging and growing that ability to transition. So I very quickly figured out, because in early 20s is when I moved from India to Switzerland and, brian, I can tell you honestly, I felt like I was in an alien land. Can you imagine the vast difference between India and Switzerland?
Speaker 2:I was just being here in India. I've never been to Switzerland, but my brain is like it's cold there.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's one. That's one obvious change, but even more obvious is how it is different in terms of culture in terms of how it works in everything right. So in India, as you I know you have gone through this big change and I can completely appreciate that. Having lived in different countries and coming back, that's off to you. You know it takes a lot to adapt to a country like India With all its beautiful glory. It is one big, I would say, chaos, but that works right.
Speaker 2:It does, it does. So I mean, I think the tricky part for me was actually the transition, the change from coming to the US to India, the physical stuff and you know. All that was actually really easy, but the transition piece was actually the trickier part. I still find myself in that space of how do I transition? What am I changing? I went from higher education to coaching. It was actually dadhood Me being a father, was was mixed in there, and so it's like, okay, how do I still continue some of those things, but let go of others? So this transition has been, has been, interesting. So young 20s, right, still trying to figure things out, and you find yourself in switzerland. Which the diversity of switzerland I don't know if that's a, you know it's a pretty homogenous community.
Speaker 3:yes, it is a mix of, so the work environment that I was in was very multi-national, so I worked with a lot of Americans as my bosses and as somebody who's working on that engagement, because we had this big ticket client that was always managed from the US.
Speaker 3:It was very big, so I had the possibility of meeting people from not only all across Europe but all over the world. I met people from nationalities I barely had heard the name of the country you know to know firsthand with them. So that's very. The question on transition is very interesting because that's when I felt I didn't know it at that point. To explain, this was the transition. I realized it after one point. I'll tell you the story. So I was being interviewed for this position that.
Speaker 3:I was in and one of the partners I mean, I was in a consulting company, accounting firm, and then he was from the US and he asked me a question you know, after all the technical things are over. So he said and still it sticks with me and said Preeti, you come from India, what's the most annoying thing that you find in Switzerland? I go like everything else, I had an answer and I go blank and I'm like I don't know, I don't find anything annoying. And then he tells me like I can't believe you, you know, coming from India, this is like upside down, from where there is, you know, basically rules are being made on the spot. Where the other place, switzerland, where everything is rule oriented and people are very disciplined, inherently.
Speaker 3:It's not like you need to tell them to do or post fines, you know, to prevent them from doing something. It just comes very natural. Discipline comes very natural. So how can you not be annoyed? Comes very natural. So how can you not be annoyed? I mean, I get annoyed with a lot of things, like people always go jog in one direction of the park, while I'm the only one going on the opposite direction when there are no rules.
Speaker 3:And it left me thinking I was truly not annoyed. And then I reflected back on that question Because it was not like I wanted to say something that makes me feel good, but I was like what do I get annoyed with? Then I figured out the coping mechanism when I moved in was to be like a baby, like not have so. I would be only surprised if I would find anything similar and that actually I with that one thing and unknowingly I just let go of the huge shock I was going to receive on a day-to-day basis because I stopped comparing from where I was from you know, that personally, because I come from a collective community to a completely individualistic community.
Speaker 3:no matter what being said and done, india is a very collective community and I have been raised in that form, and the culture is very different, not that any one is better than the other. You know the difference. What?
Speaker 2:it is.
Speaker 3:And I realized, oh my God, that has set me free in a way and that has helped me transition to take things where it is and then see what I can do with it. To go further.
Speaker 2:That's an interesting analogy of as a baby coming in and seeing things, because a baby is a clean slate.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Right. No expectations yeah, but only looking for similarities, not necessarily differences, right. When you said this about the person asking you that question, what makes so annoyed? It to me immediately felt like wow, what makes you so annoyed? Like, if you're asking that question, you're already opening the door. Yeah to being like I don't.
Speaker 2:there's things I don't like about this space yeah which, as an american, I have to say, kind of makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because we're looking for differences, right. Yes, but to be able to say to look for similarities and then to be open to that, I think, is a. It's a really a great way of trying to manage what we you know what I would consider culture shock, right, like that's usually what the first thing that throws people off coming into a new space. Yeah, is the culture shock right? Because you're looking for so many differences, right? And so that's an amazing way to think, to really kind of connect those things together, to say, no, this is about similarities, which is more positive, which brings you know, I was reading something just recently that currently in the world, or at least in america, there's a huge sense of belonging, there's a huge want to be, to, to feel connected, to belong to something, because that's lacking, right, yes, and if you're going into a new culture, you're going in and and you're trying to figure out where that. You know, how can you fit finding similarities versus finding difference?
Speaker 2:yes is it? Is it just coming to me is a great way to also build that sense of belonging into a newer community absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 3:It's more or less like building bridges right to where you are and where you are you want to be, or either way, whatever the new thing you're looking for to do, new change that you want to do. How do you build that bridges? And that bridge is my transition, what I internally think of it as a transition, and the culture shocks are real. It doesn't mean that I was not shocked.
Speaker 1:I mean, that's not the impression it moves.
Speaker 3:You know you have these different stages of change right. There's the shock, denial, anger, negotiation, bargaining, depression, acceptance. So these are usually what people talk about. And what transition, effective transition means is you jump through these very quickly rather than stall.
Speaker 2:You're lingering through it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, lingering, that's the right word, lingering through it. And then the change becomes too big or, you know, you're not geared up to see the change in a way to give you positive results.
Speaker 2:So that's really a great thought process of how to move through transitions and how to move through change. How do you navigate the change? What is it that helps you find the direction? You're talking going through that process of transition? How do you not lose your way?
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's a great question. So for this I'll bring in another part of my transition, which was from Switzerland to Singapore.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 3:When I did the transition, because life was good, I mean, I was getting really good recognition, my husband was doing well in his job and there was no like my kids were, you know doing well and all that stuff. You know doing well and all that stuff, uh it, it was still something you know.
Speaker 1:And again, my, in my philosophy.
Speaker 3:It's always a conscious change. Um, I would invite change. That makes sense, and this is where the question comes. So why change if your life is good? Right, and what makes you change? So the the next part of my transition was from transitioning or changing from Switzerland to Singapore as a move, and life was good there Already. In Switzerland, career was going good, things were fairly good. There was no need per se per se. What makes me change and what doesn't? What makes me find the direction is being aligned?
Speaker 3:with my internal compass so that works. That is what directing me to see whether a change was required, or I should say no to an opportunity, so the compass kind of gives puts me in that direction. And how I determine that internal compass is a series of simple questions. And as long as I'm aligned with all of that, then I know that this change is essential, even though it is not necessary per se, because life is already good. There's no real compulsion to change, yet it is important. Okay, right, so how I define, define my compass is all these why, how, where and when. If I'm answering those questions, okay so why?
Speaker 3:If I ask that question, and if it directly relates to the purpose of that change? Because you have one big life purpose. That's there. That's the big compass, right, right. And then you have these little mini compasses In each stage of life you are a different person and you would like to grow in a certain way. So if that why specifically addresses the purpose of this change and how it would improve or make me grow, then I know, okay, that's the right, you know the reason to be able to make that change. And when I ask, how do I do this? Of course I have all my value system, so I wouldn't want to bargain with my value system. How I make the change will be completely, I would say, aligned with my values at all times. So that would guide me on how I navigate about it, so I do not lose myself in kind of change this change and then where is the next step?
Speaker 3:If I ask that question and there's always my vision that helps me go in that direction, because when I have a vision, I have always this vision of 20 years and 10, 20, 30 years I've always been somebody who has kind of an idea who I want to be, where I want to be. So that would again answer this question Is this change something that would help me navigate to that? Okay, and a very important question which sometimes gets lost, I would say, or missed is the when so
Speaker 3:is this change required now and what determines it is my immediate priorities of life, because I'll have multiple roles. Like you said, we have multiple roles. I was a fairly new mom when I moved to Switzerland and I was a second time mom when I moved from there to Singapore. So that would be a key question for me. In my multiple roles, in my multiple priorities, does this fit? So this has always been my internal compass to make sure that I don't change for the compulsion right I.
Speaker 3:I don't change for the sake of it yeah there is a reason behind it and that reason completely aligns with who I am and who I want to be and, of course, considering people around me. That's also important. Everybody has to be aligned as a family when we are moving. If it is one person's decision, then you don't have that support system to completely. You know, go through that change no, you're, you're completely right.
Speaker 2:I, as you're, as you're talking, I'm sitting here just reflecting. I was paying attention, but I was also reflecting on the sense of like the different transitions and uh, and that compass, because I was sitting here like, wait, did I have that internal compass when I was making my transition? So I was trying to go back and play through my own own transitions and changes and when they went really well and when they didn't go so well, was that was that there.
Speaker 2:So I think that's. I think that's great to be able to to identify that that is how you're moving through. Did that help you through that transition of going from Switzerland to Singapore Was? Was that something that was known to you at that time or is it as you said? Has it been kind of now this reflective?
Speaker 3:process. It has been reflective. I wouldn't have been able to articulate all this.
Speaker 2:In the midst of the change. Right, Right, that makes sense.
Speaker 3:So now, because as a coach you would also know, right, we?
Speaker 1:are in some deep reflective space.
Speaker 3:Now you have more vocabulary to articulate what you have gone through, what you don't have, what you had all of these. So these are like things that I've reflected and start to share. You know, this is how it is. When I'm able to explain this to people, then it really resonates because you put something tangible that they can understand and they can apply. So what does help to your question? What does help do is to be very clear of the decision I took and we took as a family.
Speaker 3:You know it is like a unit right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you have to be considerate of the impact, absolutely Of what your decision is going to be. If you make a choice, it's hard to go back once the ball is moving.
Speaker 3:Exactly so. That was what it made. So this internal compass ensured that I was not lost in the messy middle. So what I mean by that is, yeah, all of this is great. Preeti, you can say, okay, it sounds like you had a rosy path. You were very set, very clear on directions. You did this change and you were successful. You know, they see the starting point of the decision and they see the end goal. What nobody sees outside of you is the messy middle that you handle, no matter how conscious it is no matter how deliberate.
Speaker 3:you try, there's always the middle that's messy and I have been caught in a lot of difficulty where there's no light that you see because you're just moving.
Speaker 3:You know you're basically uprooting yourself and putting yourself and not knowing whether it will help or not. So that's where I think this compass helps me to stay very grounded on the decision I took. So, even when there are dark phases during this transition, I would still be able to see this tiny little light at the end of the tunnel. I would always know okay, I know this is going to be dark, I'm going to give myself some time, even if it is a few months to a few years, and then let me see what it holds. I'm not going to make any decision when I'm feeling this way, because I'm completely lost in a new place, in a new environment. I have taken away everything that I knew you know it happens both in career and in life away everything that I knew. You know it happens both in career and in life. You know, because in life you basically build up your kind of ecosystem support system and then you completely leave it, then you are starting fresh.
Speaker 3:So every every place I moved it was fresh. I've never visited that place before. I mean even to Bangalore, I should say, because, even though it is India, bangalore is a very different city from those I know Completely different yeah.
Speaker 3:And it is a very different city from how I knew that before, so, in a way, this was also a very new move to me to get to know the people that are present here and the unique culture there is. So so this is how the compass helps me okay, to be very grounded and keep doing what I need to do in order to transition from one to another you know, from one transition to another slowly, right, right, right.
Speaker 2:So the compass is in this messy middle. The compass is helping you keep grounded, yeah, exactly, and helping you give that, as a compass does give you the direction Correct, even through those very dark spaces.
Speaker 3:Correct Keep one step forward, and that's it, even if you take it one week at a time or sometimes even one day at a time, yeah, you just keep moving.
Speaker 2:So how does transformation, how does transforming kind of play into the comp with the compass and going through transitions? Where does the transformation kind of fit?
Speaker 3:in. That's a great question. So how I see is transformation is the result of multiple transitions. So transformation to me is a new state of being and it is a result of these smaller transitions that you have consciously chosen to do so, because now I see for every transitions.
Speaker 3:I made you know a bunch of transitions when I gave you an example of moving and all that I was a transformed person at the end of it, at one level, and then I moved again and I was transformed to another level of being. It has, you know, all these transitions taught me to be resilient, patient and just be comfortable with the unknown, which is very important. And it has given me a muscle to make more, you know, to venture out more, yeah, even to places that I wouldn't want to do, you know, outside of my comfort zone. So it has made it easy for me to leave my comfort zone. And then I realized, when I left, whatever I did that became my comfort zone. And then I will realize, when I left, whatever I did that became my comfort zone after a few years, right, yeah so now I have to break again or break through.
Speaker 3:It's not breaking down. It's breaking through to be able to find a new me that I like and I want to become. So that's where transformation to me in my mind, fits. It's more related to you and your being, whether all these changes and transition or more of the doing work you know and the aligned doing work, Does that help?
Speaker 2:No, it totally helps. It totally helps. And it just made me think about this sense of how do you? I guess some people want to control the transformation. They want to transform into something, so they have something in mind and they want to do that. But from our conversation it kind of felt like the result of that transformation was all these series of different of how you manage through the transitions and the changes. It didn't necessarily seem like that was a oh, we're going to do it this way because I want this result. Rather, it's almost like the universe is creating what needs to be created for you to transform into, versus you controlling it yourself. But that's just how I'm hearing. I don't know if that's accurate or not For me.
Speaker 3:Both are okay. So if you have something in mind to be able to transform yourself first, if you even have that vision and you plan through a series of transition to achieve that, if it works for you, that's fantastic. I think that's another way of doing it. So for me, I did have a little bit of a vision of how it is. I didn't have exactly the plan, because when you have a very defined plan, it seldom works. I know that for a fact now. So I thought of have a vision like I want to be. This person, coming from where I was a completely conservative, completely introverted, completely shy, now I was a very different personality and to what I am becoming now is what there is, what I desire to become yeah right and Transformation is the path that I chose to do, or I think it's an inevitable path.
Speaker 3:Anyone who I, when I read these Memoirs or autobiographies where people have transformed themselves from one to another in really good ways. Transformation is inevitable. If you look at their stories, it is all about how they Moved in between. They invited changes or the changes happened to them. Either way, how did they transition? Yeah so if that works for you, having a very definite transformation and going through the path, even though the path is exactly not straight, right, it can be, right it's all directions
Speaker 3:right as long as you go there, that's a great path still to navigate For me. This is what happened with one idea put in there. It's like one mini purpose. I would say mini meaning for that phase and as long as I achieved that, that was me. And then I would put another meaning for okay, now I'm here, where do I want to go next? It's almost like a traveler who's having like some sort of a destination finally, but they are planning a few stops in between to say, okay, this is interesting, I want to explore this, this is interesting, I want to explore this.
Speaker 3:So allowing that flexibility as you move through the path, so that your journey becomes beautiful and enjoyable. Not like you know, I used to be that person also, right, I used to be very much focused in okay, I have this and I am just going to put my head down, work my way through and then come in the other side. The ultimate result is I did not enjoy that journey. So now I'm becoming more conscious of how do I make the journey enjoyable and more easy, actually not making it so difficult for me when I find most of my tasks. If it is not related to this one piece that I'm working for then that is an empty busyness. So I was caught in this empty busyness. And how do I get into this aligned work? You know aligned things to be done to be able to get there. That comes easily. You know that I'm able to navigate through easily as we age right, so we also kind of want a little bit more life in our lives yeah, that's.
Speaker 3:I hope that answers the question.
Speaker 2:So that's my take on conscious transformation or anyway, even accidental transformation right, right, right, no, that that makes a lot of sense because, as you know, as coaches, right, the first thing that came to my mind was, as you're talking through this, they're like what are your goals? Right? And as we're talking about transitions and we're talking about transformation, you still need to have a goal, you need to have a purpose, as you stated.
Speaker 2:So it doesn't necessarily mean it's this aimless you know things are happening to you versus you're working within what you have available to still achieve your goal and, as you said, you had a vision.
Speaker 2:You at least knew to some context, what you wanted to do, where you wanted to be, who you wanted to become, and then being able to navigate that through your compass, it makes to me it was building upon it right. It makes so much more sense. You have your compass because you also have your goals, you have a sense of purpose and where you want to go, yeah, and so that transformation isn't left to the universe necessarily. It's still a transformation that you want to go through because you've thought through where you want to go. So I think that's super powerful, particularly in transforming, because I feel now in this space space, more and more people are letting things happen to them, right, and that sense of lack of purpose, lack of control and lack of clarity is really, you know, I think that's what's driving people's sense of wanting to belong. Yeah, right, because in belonging you also get a communal sense of purpose versus just trying to regulate. I find that more and more kind of the atmosphere that's happening in the US right now.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Trying to find spaces to belong and connect in a greater way.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 2:Yeah absolutely.
Speaker 3:And you know, when you're talking about purpose, something came to my mind purpose and goals. Right, there are some clients. When I start working with them, it's like, oh, I don't know what my purpose is. That's a very commonly is like I really don't know. Or sometimes they say I have no goals, I don't want goals. So when I start working with them, actually purpose is there already. When they sit there, when they talk about it, the purpose is very clear.
Speaker 3:It's just that they haven't articulated that and actually acknowledged that as their purpose In the very first conversation. They exactly know what they're passionate about, how they see themselves, what they want to do. Everything is very clear. It's just that I would just tell them, like, why don't you just put this down and just come up with something? Then that would be the main purpose in your life, and it doesn't have to be. Usually the purpose in life is not about your. The goals would be aligned, ultimately, right, the goal is the next step. It doesn't have to be. Some people are not uh, you know, not comfortable with the idea of goal because they feel like their freedom is compromised yeah you know there are people like that, I know.
Speaker 2:I know a few of them myself I was actually, truly I was like that in the beginning. I very much was not a goal-oriented person.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and when you flip the other side and say, okay, how do you want to lead your life, they would say I want to have a happy life.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Well, that can be a goal. You know, is all of your activity aligned to you? Being happy, but not as happiness to be chasing happiness, but being happiness I? I mean, there is a whole book around it about chasing happiness and being happiness.
Speaker 3:I don't want to get into that but when you look at that concept, a goal can be a being goal, not a doing goal, because we always relate to goals as, oh, I want to be. I would say, know, in this position at a particular time, I want to be able to do this project. I want to be able to. There are also being goals. I want to be happy, I want to be joyful, I want to be able to connect with people, I want to have great relationships. All of these could be translated into something you can focus on. I would say an intention. Yeah, that would help ease them.
Speaker 3:You say okay what is your intention in life? How do you want to live your life on a daily basis? Then that would answer a few other questions. Then there you go. So it doesn't have to be this. I would say, traditional way in how we start working. You know this kind of corporate thing of okay, what is your mission, vision, goals. Some people are very structured and gravitate towards that and some people are not, and yet you could have something that can guide them to move forward.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's great, that's really good. So, as you've gone through these different transitions, so, as you've gone through these different transitions, what do you feel like has been the result of the transition and, as you said, what you've transformed yourself into at this point?
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's a great question.
Speaker 2:So what's the point right?
Speaker 3:Let's just simplify the question what's the?
Speaker 1:point of all of this Exactly.
Speaker 3:I love that that's more direct. So thankfully I've been able to do a lot of things. You know right, and it has fallen in a place where things work for me.
Speaker 3:That's also there, with a lot of support and everything. The end result is what I, the umbrella is freedom of choice. So that is a very big reward for me in being able to do this. So freedom of choice is I'm.
Speaker 3:I now have a lot of freedom in a lot of ways because of all these transitions I have made and all these difficult times I have moved through with a very particular focus of, you know, getting through and and growing growth. For me it's always growth over security. So that has driven me to take risky, very risky, often disadvantageous moves in life. And then I had to start from scratch and prove myself or to others all over again to be able to get where I desire to get. So with that, when I say freedom, it's about now I'm free to work or not to work.
Speaker 3:I'm financially independent. I've had goals to make me very orient towards what I want to build. Now I can choose to work at my own, on my own time, at my own will, whatever I want to do. So I have the freedom of choice to use the time with whatever I want to do, like spend time with family, take care of my parents or travel, have fun or learn a new course, and so there's no, literally there's no restriction of a financial or time-wise, and that, for me, is a very big probably that was part of my vision to be able to be autonomous, to be able to do it without worrying about, you know, the regular life stuff I would say, and in between you know, my children are growing up and in that stage, so I would say that has given me this freedom of even choosing an adventure that has no certain outcome.
Speaker 3:So now I can do a completely different thing and I would be okay to navigate because I am free to choose that option. Also, if I choose to, I can do all these nice fun things. I can also put myself somewhere and I said, okay, this is very interesting.
Speaker 3:I want to try it for a year and see what I what it comes out of me, and I have been able to do that also. So that is, for me, the big reward for all these things, because without that muscle I was able to build consistently. I wouldn't be here in this, in this uh, I would say privileged right of being able to choose. I know it's not a choice for a lot of people, right, right, and I would say it was not a choice for me. I started from a choice where everything was that's the only way to do it. From an absolutely no choice to an abundant choice has been my journey and I'm thankful I'm here and I'm thankful for all these decisions I made. So again, people think, oh, you're always this way. No, I have moved from places where I was like, oh, I have no choice, I'm going to do this. So I have put my head down, worked really hard and all that stuff, and it's so liberating to be at this place.
Speaker 3:Do you think it's worth it.
Speaker 2:I think, it's worth it, because, you know, one of the reasons why I moved to India was also to find this since.
Speaker 2:Well, to find myself Wonderful Because from the work I was doing was really good work, but it was super intense and it was very draining energy.
Speaker 2:I was extending more energy out than I was getting energy back in, got it right, and so one of the reasons why we were making wanting to make this shift and you know, selfishly for myself I was was like I needed to change, I needed something. I don't know if I find myself in the financial independence space just yet, but I do find myself in that space of freedom of choice and I think sometimes I make that freedom of choice not necessarily cognizant of how much of an impact it does to my family, and I need to be as you were saying. You say I was like, yeah, I need to get more, more conversation with my family about what I want to do and how that impacts them. But it does give me a better sense of that and how to navigate, and opportunities have come from that freedom, from that ability honestly to say yes versus no as often as possible. I think something you brought up that I think was interesting is the growth versus uh, you know, versus security right or safety you know I as you said it.
Speaker 2:it kind of resonated with me like how do you make this decision between growth versus safety? Um, and you, you brought that up, can you talk a little bit?
Speaker 3:more about that. For me, it's more security. Safety is more like very physical. Everyone deserves to be feeling safe, right, so I don't think I would. So security is another concept in our heads. Right, so you feel secure in certain environments. Right, safety is a must and it should be guaranteed.
Speaker 2:It's a given, it's a foundation.
Speaker 3:Otherwise it's very difficult to even go on a journey. So security is often where people find stuck, because they are in a very secure space, especially because it's known, firstly familiar, it's predictable and it's just monotonous. You know, it's just a no-brainer.
Speaker 3:You know, you just get to work, do your stuff, come back, do what you need to do at home and repeat. So the very concept of growth is against that security. You know, in nature and wherever you do and I am very driven by self-growth, I would love to grow myself, you know, at all levels.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:You know, whether it's mentally, emotionally, spiritually. You know it's been like a journey that has come to a place where how can I fill the cup where it is still has space to be filled? Or sometimes, how do I just let go of the cup, how do I just empty the cup and start fresh, because that will give you fresh perspective, give you a very new taste of the drink, rather than keep filling the cup with all sorts of things, this, empty and then start again. Yeah, and it has honestly been very uh fulfilling to me especially uh, and that's why growth has been a big part of my life and my direction, uh, sometimes even a value. You know, I don't grow. I'm like, okay, something is going on. So I would identify when growth becomes a certain extent and I'm unable to grow in that environment. That's when I shift to a bigger space in a very different sense.
Speaker 3:So the point of moving to India was how can I grow spiritually and being more connected with my family, how can I just be more connected to nature, to life's calling? You know that I'm able to say yes. So it can be very different dimensions because you are. You know this Maslow's hierarchy, you know.
Speaker 2:I love Maslow's hierarchy. You know this Maslow's hierarchy I love.
Speaker 3:Maslow's hierarchy. Once you do that, at least for me, I don't want to keep circulating in the lower triangles because it's already full. What else do you want For me? Okay, how can we go next? How would I be able to explore this new area that I don't know about and I would like to know more about? So that's why I always put growth over security.
Speaker 2:No, that makes sense. I think Maslow's hierarchy of needs is a great representation of security versus growth. Right, because, as you said, the bottom two rungs is all about security, which is, you know, having a house over your head, having money coming in right Like your financials. Those two bottom are your foundation, your security. Everything above that is all about that. Growth. Yes, yes, because you're moving from the physical space into actually the intellectual, emotional space of growth versus security Correct.
Speaker 2:Even though security is throughout right, you want to be secure mentally, emotionally physically. And that's what Maslow hierarchy means. As a student affairs professional, I love.
Speaker 1:Maslow hierarchy.
Speaker 2:I'm a huge Maslow hierarchy. We use it all the time with students Because you know they're going to come to college, right, they are getting the housing, they stay on campus. So their housing, their education, their education, the things, the lights on all that is basically provided. So all that bottom part of the needs is there that gives them access to be able to hit the higher levels of of emotional, intellectual growth.
Speaker 3:absolutely, absolutely so, yeah, I completely get it and I think in mas's it's a combination of safety and security. Right, because there are certain things that are fundamental that you don't you know in a student's life. You want to make sure they are, they don't feel threatened in any way in these meeting, these and if they?
Speaker 2:and if they are, how do they respond to it?
Speaker 3:And I think that's a great point.
Speaker 2:And that's also that internal compass that we were talking about, that transforming college is a very transformational space, absolutely to it, and that's also that internal compass that we were talking about, that transforming College is a very transformational space. It's built that way and so it's interesting, as we're talking about transforming, I'm bringing up college, but we're talking about transforming outside of that environment, right Into the real world, because college is an artificial environment. It's created for that, but in the real world, you have to create that for yourself, correct? And that's where I think a lot of people struggle, right, especially coming out of college, because everything is already set up for you. So the fresh, fresh grads coming out, trying to go into the world to to figure what they're doing, and all of a sudden they have to now be like wait, this was set up for me, how do I do this? Right and through that messiness?
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know you are coming out with something, hopefully a really good you.
Speaker 3:Yeah absolutely.
Speaker 2:Where do you want to head with that?
Speaker 3:I love that point about college. How I see it is, it's still you create a safe space to be able for the students to explore their emotional, mental well-being or, you know, growth, and it's still a sandbox, yeah, like it's all set up for them, and I think it's important because that's the first stage where they are open to the world yeah and they need that somebody being there, like you know, just like a mother is there in the sandbox and the child just feel or mother or caregiver, I should say father, or anybody that they feel okay to play, to explore, to dig in, to find something and all that stuff.
Speaker 3:And then after college is when they really hit the live button. You know, after college is when they really hit the live button. You know it's like from in the it terminologies from sandbox to test environment to production.
Speaker 3:So that's when you hit the production environment where there's so much of craziness going around. And then how do they? Thankfully for what they have learned in the test sandbox and test environments, they are able to make the choices that are that works for them in their real life, because it's so dynamic yeah it's not protected, the environment is not protected.
Speaker 3:So then they figure out themselves and almost everyone goes through the cycle and somehow they figure out, they find their ground, even if they lose it a little bit here and there they come back to it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, uh, which is what I think, and and that's why I think transformation although we resist that word, it's just what everyone goes through yeah basically, whether you like it or not, yeah, no, no and I I think that's why, one of the reasons why I also love this topic today right, change, transition. Change, transition equaling coming to transformation.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Right. So I think it's really a timely conversation. I think it really is, because we are all in this process of transformation and it's just. It's different, but it's also the same for everyone as well.
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:This is great, as we're kind of slowing coming to the end here. Is there anything that you would want to share with our listeners as we, as we close out this topic of transformation?
Speaker 3:yeah, I think I would just let this, let them think over these couple of things. Right, if you think your life is not as good as you imagine to be or you want to be, then just know that all the goodness that you desire or imagined or want to be is right there for you to explore. And if you think your life is good right now, also remember that greatness is also hidden there for you to explore. So it's up to you to choose and co-create your own life, even though life happens to you Because we often say this right Life happened to me, everything got you know, my dreams were shattered and stuff like that Even in that, when life happens to you quote unquote there is still an opportunity or a window to co-create and recreate your life to what you want to be and what you want to experience. So that's all I would like for them to think about and just reflect where do they want to be and where are they right now and how can they move forward, move towards where they would like to be?
Speaker 2:yeah, great, that's amazing. Thank you so much oh, thank you.
Speaker 3:I love the questions. It brought so many things you know from you know a lot of reflections for me as well as I talked, and thank you so much. I love the topic. Like I told you before we started recording, is this what makes us it's such a broad and yet directed topic where everyone can come and share, and I have listened to a few of them and I love it. I love it for the diversity of topics they bring and also, uh, there's always something new for you to learn.
Speaker 2:So, thank you, it has been such a pleasure, brian thank you and, on this note, we like to thank Farmhouse Kitchen and Brewery because we just popped in here and decided to do a podcast.
Speaker 3:Yes, Thank you. Farmhouse Cafe.
Speaker 2:So all right, Thank you so much.
Speaker 3:Thank you.
Speaker 1:Thank you for listening to what Makes Us. Make sure to rate or review this podcast on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, or send it to a friend who you think will enjoy this podcast. Thank you for sharing your time and see you soon.
