Neuro-Spicy with Sonia Brantley

Neuro‑Spicy isn’t just a catchy label—it’s a way to honor the courage it takes to move through a world designed for someone else’s brain. In this episode, Brian sits down with longtime friend Sonia Brantley for a candid, generous conversation about dyslexia, ADHD, autism parenting, and the everyday resilience required when systems still reward masking over authenticity.

From a second‑grade diagnosis to finding refuge in clubs, creativity, and performance, Sonia traces how confidence grows when kids are allowed to shine where they’re strong and get real support where they struggle. Together, we dig into self‑advocacy—why it starts at home, how teachers and peers shape it, and what happens when difference is misread as deficiency.

The challenge‑support framework comes alive here: big challenges require equally thoughtful support, or the outcome isn’t growth—it’s trauma. Sonia opens the door to the realities of parenting an autistic teen: sensory overload in grocery aisles, deficit‑heavy annual assessments, and the quiet grief of constantly apologizing for a child’s neurology. Drawing a boundary around that apology becomes a turning point—less shame, more presence, clearer expectations.

We also rethink representation. Sonia is developing a documentary series that centers families with autism—especially families of color—beyond savant tropes and stereotypes. Expect the full picture: joy, fatigue, logistics, safety, and the messy beauty of real care. We explore universal design, why one in eight adults being neurodivergent should reshape schools and workplaces, and how the X‑Men analogy helps kids see their wiring as ability that needs training, not correction.

If you’ve ever felt pressured to be “standard,” this conversation offers language, perspective, and practical steps to build environments where difference isn’t just accepted—it thrives.

If this episode resonates, share it with someone who deserves to feel seen. Subscribe for more voices, leave a review to help others find the show, and tell us: what support helps you bring your whole self forward.

Thank You to all of our supporters that have contributed a couple of bucks to keep this show up and running! All proceeds go back into the show to make it better and increase the reach out to the community.

If you like what you have heard and to support the show, just click on the link for support! Every dollar helps us bring more stories and inspiration to your ears!

Thanks for being amazing!

Transcript

Welcome And Guest Introduction

SPEAKER_02 0:07

Welcome to What Makes Us. This is a podcast exploring and how we develop as people through our experiences and connections between individuals, with groups, and amongst society. We'll be bringing on guests to discuss how they've come to be who they are. And along the way, we may end up learning something about ourselves. So please sit back and enjoy your listening to What Makes Us. Welcome to What Makes Us. My name is Brian Hooks, and today I have such a special person here with me today. Truthfully, she is my sister. She has known me since middle school. And today we're going to talk about what makes us neurospicy. That's right, that's right. So my longtime friend, sister, Sonia Brandley, is with us today. And uh I am the only one that can call her Sony, so please know that that will be in this conversation as this is not a video, but if you were to be able to see her face, you would you would you would tell she's not happy about what I just said. Um so uh without further ado, this is gonna be a fun episode, just FYI. Uh without further ado, I would like to have Sonia. Sony, please talk talk a little bit about yourself. And you know, what got you interested in this topic of Neurospicy?

SPEAKER_04 1:40

Well, thank you, Bertie. That is a fabulous introduction. If we're going on names here, okay, okay, we will go on names.

SPEAKER_02 1:47

We will go on names. Okay, let's just go back.

SPEAKER_04 1:51

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:52

This what this world is not this world is not ready for that.

SPEAKER_04 1:55

Oh, but if it was. Uh, so I'm Sonia, obviously Sony Brantley. We have been friends since we were 12 years old.

SPEAKER_02 2:05

I know, right?

SPEAKER_04 2:05

So we go way, way, way, way, way back.

SPEAKER_02 2:08

Way back. Too many secrets.

SPEAKER_04 2:09

Um man, thank God it was before MySpace, Instagram, and Facebook.

SPEAKER_02 2:14

Uh yes, yes.

SPEAKER_04 2:16

Because whoo, but uh, I am a lot of things. I am a mom, I am a woman, I am a blaxicin, and I grew born in the 80s, raised in the 90s. If we're gonna go on the resume, I am a lot of things there too. Jane of a lot of trades, master of a couple of them. Um, you know, I in my daily life, I do everything from fraud analytics to writing and producing for TV and film to helping others with some of the gifts I was given. And that actually is what got me interested in the topic of what makes us neurospicy, because I am neurospicy. And it's taken a long time for me to understand everything that that means and what goes along with it.

SPEAKER_02 3:06

Yeah. It's a fun, it's a fun topic, right? It's a fun title, but there's so as we were talking about in the prep meeting, there's so much depth to that. Um, and and it's a really interesting. So, where did Neurospicy come from, right? We we talked a little bit about. So, where did Neurospicy come from?

Defining Neurospicy And Its Origins

SPEAKER_04 3:25

That is not my word. I want to say it right now. I did not coin that term. Um, there's an amazing actress, Natasha Rothwell. She was in, she is in, I apologize, she is in White Lotus. Uh, and she is a couple of writer, actress, producer. She actually coined the term neurospicy in an interview I was watching with her. And I just felt it to my soul. I said, Oh, we're gonna make this a word. Yeah, we're gonna make this a word everybody knows because you know, neurotypical and neurodivergent, right? Neurotypical is your quote unquote average everyday person that does not necessarily have neurological difficulties or things that otherwise can impede daily life.

SPEAKER_00 4:14

Right.

SPEAKER_04 4:15

And neurodivergent, different.

SPEAKER_00 4:18

Right, right.

SPEAKER_04 4:19

In a bunch of different ways. And there's a spectrum, and there's things that go along with that. Neurospicy is all of those with some attitude.

SPEAKER_02 4:28

I it's uh the last part is the most important part. It's the attitude, it's the attitude, it's the attitude. Oh, you know what, and that's uh that's what makes it fun, but it also, I think that's also really important because in a neurotypical world, you have you have to have attitude to be able to manage if you're neurodivergent, right? Like you gotta have some grit to be able to get through all the different uh oppression, all the different normal lack of normalization, right? Like the othering that happens, that happens in this world, right? And people's opinions, perspectives, judgments being forced upon you as a neurodivergent. Um, you you gotta get at you gotta have attitude. I mean, like I we talk about it as a as black people, as Latino people, like a black skin, right?

SPEAKER_04 5:30

I am a black Mexican woman right in the United States of America that was born in the 80s and raised in the 90s. That's all attitude, or else I would have been buried long ago.

SPEAKER_01 5:44

Right, that's that's all attitude right there.

SPEAKER_04 5:46

It is my it is my armor, it has to be. It has to be um, and it can be fun and it can be amazing, and it can be a defense mechanism and it can be offensive. And you know, I mean, again, we've known each other forever and a day, so you know I've always been a person that, oh, I'm so sorry, guys. Red band, red band for this. I'll talk a lot of shit. I have always been a person that to an extent could give a whole fuck less what anybody says.

SPEAKER_00 6:14

Right.

SPEAKER_04 6:14

Because I I'm used to people saying things and talking, talking their crap, and at you know, you're much younger, not understanding why they felt the need to do so, but absolutely ready to to come across it. You're gonna decide what kind of day we're gonna have.

SPEAKER_00 6:27

Right.

Attitude As Armor In A Neurotypical World

SPEAKER_04 6:28

Had no problem with that, right? So again, like to have to to grow up in the time that we did, and you know, just dealing with being kids and all of the things that were happening and all the things that happened now and all that fun stuff. The attitude to me, I feel like um is kind of what got me through. Cause like I said, you know, I'm I'm I have a certain attitude of I don't give a shit. But adversely to that, there's plenty of times that I really did and really do.

SPEAKER_03 6:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 6:59

And I had to put that attitude on. And a lot of that, you know, started. I've been neurospicy my whole life and started with getting diagnosed with dyslexia and ADHD when I was in second grade. Okay. And remember telling the doctor, not the doctor, the teacher telling my grandmother, oh, well, we want to hold her back because she's having a hard time with, you know, her numbers and reading and my grandmother being like, like hell, no, we're not. And getting me tutoring and and all of that stuff to, you know, help me through. And even though I knew then, or how I knew then that I had dyslexia and I had a harder time with this, and I really did, like it was terrible. I had a really hard time with it. Adversely to that, my family didn't necessarily make me feel like there was an issue or that was a problem. And the business that the majority of my family is in, the ADHD has always been helpful.

SPEAKER_03 7:58

Right.

SPEAKER_04 7:58

It's always been extremely, we're we're multitaskers to the core. So it's always been extremely helpful. So I grew up with my neurodivergence being well, one part of it, you know, yeah, having some issues, but the other part of it being a strength and feeling special with it and because of it. Because I knew I had the ability to do this, this, this, this, this, this, and this, and think about twice that all at the same time and still get stuff done and still, you know, everything about my schoolwork. So still be able to do all of that, all of that stuff. So to me, I didn't see ADHD as ADHD. I didn't see it as bad. It wasn't until I got into adulthood and started recognizing some of the other symptoms and some of the other things and going, oh, there was all of that too. Interesting.

SPEAKER_02 8:51

Nice. I I think that is well, you know, when I met you six in middle school, right?

SPEAKER_03 8:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:59

Um I of course I didn't know these things, right? Right. Right. And I think that's the thing about it, right? The two that you brought up are that invisible areas, right? Those are things that just you can automatically see that someone's on the spectrum, right? There are some that you can notice quickly, but most you can't. And that spicy attitude, there's a story behind it. But as a kid, you know, you know, you all you see is attitude. All you see is this little spunky person in front of you that's giving you lip, and you're like, you are smaller than me. Why? Why are you first of all?

SPEAKER_04 9:38

Um, I was about to go.

SPEAKER_02 9:40

We were about the same height. Okay, okay. We were about the same height, but let's just let's just move on.

SPEAKER_04 9:45

So I wasn't getting you the attitude to be clear. No, you were the brat that used to run down the hallway and smack my braids so it hit my face. That's the one that got the attitude.

SPEAKER_02 9:56

Yeah, yeah. He yeah, yeah, he got attitude. Um, I was I was, you know, I was always a nice guy. Um, but it's so interesting though, right? Because it I don't think it was until probably high school that I actually then started to realize, and we had conversations around, you know, your struggles with the education structure and and where you were at and and everything going on. So that, you know, but again, right? Those things are that you telling me that, right? It wasn't necessarily me figuring that out on my own.

SPEAKER_03 10:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:33

And and I shouldn't. I it that's someone else's business, right? Like, I'm why should why should I jump into someone's business be like, hey, can you read? That's really rude.

SPEAKER_04 10:46

Immediately getting it.

SPEAKER_02 10:47

Right, right, wait. That's how that's how fights, you know, fights have happened for yeah, yeah, fights have happened for less. Let's be let's less less. So asking someone that if they can if they can read is is probably at that time channel to you get shot. Listen, I carry it.

SPEAKER_04 11:06

You're gonna even get oh, you were trying to start this whole problem.

SPEAKER_02 11:10

Right, right, right, right, right. Even the gangsters would be like, Yeah, I can read like you a lot.

Early Diagnoses And School Struggles

SPEAKER_04 11:15

So and you know, and that's so the reading thing, like when I got diagnosed when I was in in junior high, not junior high, I'm sorry, when I was in second grade, and then I didn't get rediagnosed in junior high, but it started to look different because you know, you're then going to like several classes and you know, and all that kind of stuff. And the reading wasn't the problem because once I got the tutoring I needed, I was in fourth grade and I was reading at a 12th grade level.

SPEAKER_03 11:41

Right, right.

SPEAKER_04 11:42

You know, you couldn't stop me from having a book in my hand, in my backpack, in the car, under the mattress. And to this day, you know, if I don't have a book, I panic. It was the numbers. And I would tell people all the time, so yeah, the numbers are getting up and crib walking in front of me.

SPEAKER_03 11:55

Like that's what it looks like.

SPEAKER_04 11:57

So math was always my my kryptonite.

SPEAKER_00 11:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 12:00

And I would tell teachers, like I wouldn't necessarily tell my classmates and stuff, you know, I'm not running around with the sign dyslexic, but I would tell teachers so that they they knew ahead of time, hey, this may take me a second. And I mean, I had some teachers that were like super awesome with it, some that to this day shouldn't have a license, because I don't know why they were allowed to teach children. But I would say something when I felt like I needed to say something, right?

SPEAKER_00 12:30

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 12:31

And for me to tell one of my friends or somebody that was close to me in our, you know, in our peer group kind of deal, that to me was still like embarrassing. Because even then, even though you know, and that dyslexia was obviously very much a thing. My father is dyslexic, my children are dyslexic and at dyscalcula, my ex-husband is dyslexic, and he was never diagnosed until we were adults. You know, like all of that, right? So I still had like some shame about that at that time. So for me to even tell you, dude, I am in algebra and I'm we're in the 11th grade. Well, you were a senior by then, and I was in the 11th grade, and you're like, okay, you hate math. And I'm like, I'm about to have a nervous breakdown because I just don't just hate it. It's traumatizing me now.

SPEAKER_00 13:20

Right, right, right, right.

SPEAKER_04 13:21

You know, like for me to even tell you was I was like at what's end.

SPEAKER_00 13:26

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 13:27

And it had to come out. And of course, we look at things now very differently than we looked at them then. I don't didn't realize till I was an adult how much masking I was doing or felt the need to do because I didn't look at it necessarily as masking. I looked at it as just trying to survive.

SPEAKER_02 13:48

Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_04 13:49

In '97, just trying to survive.

SPEAKER_02 13:53

I mean, there was there was a lot of things that we were trying to survive from. And truthfully, school was probably one of the few safe spaces, if you want to call it that.

SPEAKER_04 14:07

If you want to call it that. If you want to call it, but for me, it wasn't. For me, it wasn't a safe space because my friends are all brilliant. And you can talk out if you want to. I don't care. My brother is brilliant, his wife is brilliant. They have procreated a little brilliant teeny child, which is perfectly fine. And I fully intend to raise her in my image. My point is, I had I had brilliant people all around me that it's not like I don't know I'm intelligent. Right. It's not like I don't know that I can read somebody down and back up and make sure that they don't figure it out for a week. Absolutely. But then when it comes to those couple, two, three little things, right? It was terrifying for everybody that I deal with to be brilliant to not think that I am too, or to look at, you know, you know, one of my pet peeves is somebody that's condescending.

SPEAKER_00 14:59

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 15:00

And that talks to me like I'm stupid. I am fucking dyslexic. I felt stupid since I was seven years old.

SPEAKER_00 15:07

Right, right.

SPEAKER_04 15:08

Take your life in your hands if you want to. Like that's that, you know, it but and it started then and never really stopped. You know, so for for me being neural spicy on one side of things, I was able to compartmentalize it, right? I was able to say, well, yeah, I'm dyslexic and numbers are terrible, and my math is shit, and I'll be lucky to graduate. But at the same time, I was in every club, right, except for one. I was a black basketball track, cheerleading, dance, gospel choir, chorus, band, Latin American Student Association, young black scholars, African American Student Council, mock trial team and debate. I'm missing one. Drama.

SPEAKER_02 15:54

And that's drama. That's drama all by itself, which you just said. Listing out all that was drama.

SPEAKER_04 16:01

I was in everything. You were you were in the world.

SPEAKER_00 16:05

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 16:06

And somehow thriving. Oh, and and basketball, I was a stats manager for the the for the varsity basketball team, boys' basketball. So I literally was doing everything somehow successfully. My schedule was insane, it was but my schoolwork was shit.

SPEAKER_00 16:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 16:21

Because I was using my other superpower to orchestrate all of these things and be fantastic at it. And this was definitely suffering because I was trying to avoid it, because I was shitty at it.

SPEAKER_00 16:32

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 16:34

You know, add in my parents back and forthing, all that mess, my brother as he is, and all that mess. So adding all of that in at the same time, it's like, oh, I'm gonna focus where I know I'm good and can build my own confidence. And not that my parents ever told me I was stupid, not that no, you know, my dad's just like my, you know, my mom, like you know, my parents. That was a whole nother thing. But I I learned then to try and make my own confidence out of something that I was already great at.

SPEAKER_03 17:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 17:06

Because the rest of it was terrible and made me feel even worse.

SPEAKER_00 17:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 17:13

It is as an adult that I realize all of that now. And it's wild to me.

Masking, Confidence, And Finding Safe Wins

SPEAKER_02 17:19

Yeah. I, you know, there's two, there's like several things that came up in what you just talked about. One I think we should touch on is advocacy and more importantly, self-advocacy. Because I think what you just what you highlighted that your that your family did early on, and not treating you differently, right? And not treating you that, oh, this is a problem. Rather, this is who you are and let's make it work, right? I think that's that's a huge, huge stage about self-advocacy. Because what you did in high school was you intentionally, whether good or bad, you went to the space that you did really well with. And kudos to the teachers, right? That was that Blair, kudos to them to allow you to be to shine in the space that they saw you shine in versus trying to push you back into a box, right? Um and then the the second thing was that masking, right? So uh those are two areas that we definitely should talk about. But I think self-advocacy is super important because you know it's tough for someone it just in general, right? Like if we're gonna do the separation between neurodivergent and neurotypical, it is difficult for everyone to be able to everyone, everyone to be able to advocate for yourself, right? It is super difficult to do that.

SPEAKER_04 18:44

So you know, the advocacy and and like I said, I my children are are neurodivergent as well, all three of them. And with my my daughter, her highness Miss Kaylee, don't forget to sound, being being the most super of the neurodivergent.

SPEAKER_03 19:03

Right.

SPEAKER_04 19:04

But for for all of them, and I would, you know, talk with other parents, and it's it's you know, kind of when she got diagnosed, I started coming across all kinds of people that were at the beginning of their journey that I was able to kind of help point in the right directions, right? And a lot of kids that had learning disabilities, like myself, like my children, like their father, right? And I and I mind you, with in this conversation, I asked their dad, can I talk about it?

SPEAKER_03 19:31

And he's like, How about it?

SPEAKER_04 19:34

Because we grew up very differently. I grew up in Southern California with a family that I had. He grew up in Southern Louisiana, okay, both of us having a similar cultural background.

SPEAKER_00 19:45

Right, right.

SPEAKER_04 19:46

I was diagnosed early, he was diagnosed at age 22. The difference between the two of us is that I was instilled, well, at least attempted to be instilled with. Confidence consistently, he was not. Yeah. So our school journeys were similar, but very, very different. And I completely feel like it was because of that. Because when you the in my personal experience, when you have a learning disability, and half of the reason that why when people talk to me like I'm stupid, I'm ready to take somebody's head off, is that I already feel that way. I'm already struggling to understand or to put something together a certain way while everybody's looking at me, while everybody's waiting for me, while everybody's blah, blah, blah, right? And that is hell on confidence.

SPEAKER_00 20:38

Yeah, yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_04 20:39

If you can take a kid with a learning disability, and I'm not a fan of the word, but I'm saying it for a reason. I'm saying it for the stigma of it. Right. If you can take a kid that has a learning disability and make sure that their self-esteem and their confidence is so fantastic with other areas that you're able to work with that one and let them know that, okay, this one kind of sucks, but we're working on it because you really are fantastic and you really are good at all of these things. And this may be a little hiccup, but you can you can work on it, you can work through it, you can so on and so forth, then that goes a really long way in them then being able to advocate for themselves and them having the strength to do so, not the confidence to do so, the strength.

SPEAKER_00 21:30

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 21:31

To even be able to admit or talk about it. Because that's two different things.

SPEAKER_02 22:24

That is right, that is that is a great distinction because you're right. If if a if you are being raised in a space that is welcoming, that is appreciative of who you are without any questions, judgments of what that no strings, no strings attached, then you are gonna find yourself able to find that space to build on, right? To find that fire. You know, as we talk about neurospicy, it's also talking about that fire to be able to step in and say, This is not right. I don't want to be treated this way, right?

SPEAKER_04 23:06

And I'm not going to be.

SPEAKER_02 23:07

And I'm not going to be treated this way.

SPEAKER_04 23:09

And it takes a village, right? Because, you know, it's it's not just you doing it for yourself. You there, you're right. There does have to be that environment. There does have to be those teachers and friends and people around you. You know, my my kids are blessed with some amazing people that love them. They are blessed with some of the best examples of black men that I could have picked for them. They have an amazing godfather. If you guys haven't figured it out yet, it's it's me.

SPEAKER_01 23:40

Thank you. Thank you.

SPEAKER_04 23:42

They are placed with an amazing godfather, they're placed with an amazing uncle. Yeah. Um, that who is a Kappa Alpha Psi to the core.

SPEAKER_00 23:50

He's a noob.

SPEAKER_04 23:50

And and he's a noob. And both of you, since they were in the womb and came out, have always spoken to them as the elevated men that they are, have always imparted on them how important their education was and tried to pump them up and meet them where they were. And you have always educationally, you always made sure, okay, school's about to start. What do they need? What are we? What are we buying Legos? Are we working on this or this? Where are we at with it? And you know, you guys would have your time and you guys, you would always do something. And you know, they would come, oh mom, you know, we Uncle Bernie did this, and he told us this, and then we, but they were always so excited and just feeling good about who they were as mixed black men. They would go with my cousin the noob, and he would stand them.

SPEAKER_00 24:42

I love my cousin the noob. He's the noob, right?

SPEAKER_04 24:46

He's I didn't know. He's gonna be like, yep, yeah, yeah. Um and his brother, God rest his soul, and they would stand them in front of his cap alpha side mirror when they were barely able to talk. He'd be holding one of them, standing the other one in front of them, and he would have them repeat, I am amazing, I am intelligent, I am handsome, I am smart, I am kind. And he would go through all of the words and have them repeat it. You know, Colin da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. He wasn't actually saying words, but he he was adamant about making sure they knew they were all of those things as black men and as men to begin with. And as they started getting older, you know, Krishna would go to school, have issues with kids because he was also dyslexic and was having issues. And he would tell the the little boys that would bully him, I know you don't like me because I'm handsome. I know, I know.

SPEAKER_02 25:45

I remember that.

SPEAKER_01 25:46

That's okay.

SPEAKER_02 25:46

It was like I was like, that's the greatest response ever in the history of the world. Like, that takes balls, kid. That takes balls, right? Like massive coholess.

SPEAKER_04 26:00

Yeah, literal, he was 100% serious.

SPEAKER_02 26:02

He was he was like, he didn't play no games, he didn't put he didn't play no games with that.

SPEAKER_04 26:07

Like, no, Monopoly, don't play me. He was not playing a game, he was dead serious, but it was because there was no other way for him to be, right?

Self-Advocacy And The Power Of Support

SPEAKER_02 26:14

Right, right, right. And he had to navigate yeah, and he had to navigate that and just the ingenuity of of being in that moment and and and having the ball to be like, you know what, let's just put this out on the table. I know this is what the case is, and then truthfully, those bullies having no response. Like they're kids were so stuck, they were stuck. I don't think we can mess with this kid anymore. Right. And it backed off. Most of them, he had a couple that were angry about it and and and and act it out because they were but the ones that were angry were also deflexic. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 26:55

And they also had learning disabilities, they were stuck. So their behavior was that of children that were also frustrated, also having a hard time, and maybe didn't have that amazing background and foundation of parents that understand what you're going through, of families that understand and love you anyway. The support and want you to the support. So the self-advocacy is is the most important, but that self-advocacy doesn't happen unless you have the support. And I I hate to say it, but it's so true that in both sides of my culture, the support is shitty.

SPEAKER_02 27:34

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 27:34

It's it's I was blessed in my family.

SPEAKER_02 27:37

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 27:39

It it you know a lot of families sweep it. They sweep it.

SPEAKER_02 27:42

Yeah, yeah. Because they because honestly, there's other things happening to them that they feel like I can't do more until the it gets swept. I, you know, as you were talking about support. So uh this other episode I did with uh on what makes us us. The I the concept, and this is uh student development theory, challenge and support. Challenge and support.

SPEAKER_00 28:11

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 28:12

A person can only be able to handle the challenge that is in front of them if they have the equal amount of support that that challenge equates with them, right? If you have a big challenge in front of you, but the support behind you is so minuscule, right? It's gonna potentially it's gonna be a negative outcome, right? You're you're not gonna be able to get through that challenge without severe scarring, right? Like you could probably overcome it, but there's gonna be some severe scarring to that.

SPEAKER_04 28:44

That trauma is real.

SPEAKER_02 28:46

Yeah, the trauma of that challenge, whether you made it through or not, is gonna stick with you. But when you have the adequate amount of support, not saying it's a huge support, but you have the adequate amount of support, that scarring, that trauma is significantly reduced. And it becomes a manageable thing, a thing that can actually disappear as time goes on and as you navigate your world because then you can come back to that challenge and see it in a positive, not as a negative. Um, and and as we're talking about this, that just popped into my head of like, as a kid, you are significantly challenged as a neurodivergent of trying to navigate a world that doesn't understand you and doesn't want to understand you.

SPEAKER_04 29:34

And is not made for you and is is requiring you to assimilate right to what the norm.

SPEAKER_02 29:41

To the norm, right? You are supposed to be at this level, you're regardless of how you came into the space.

SPEAKER_03 29:48

Right.

SPEAKER_02 29:49

So that challenge is so high. Is there, you know, there isn't a way to have that support, but can we have the support that, you know, can we have that space without the significant trauma? Because what we're talking about here with how your son responded to those other bullies because they were also traumatized, they're also traumatized, right? All the people that are around us, right? As we have navigated, have we masked ourselves to be able to fit into a society that is not made for us?

SPEAKER_04 30:24

150%.

SPEAKER_02 30:27

Right.

SPEAKER_04 30:28

150%. And I can say that with absolutely no shame. I wish somebody would say something because I'm gonna point out exactly what mask they're using today. Right. I can say that easily because the the the and I want to say it looks different now than it did. So I feel like now, thank God, I feel like now there's so much more awareness. There are so many more people that understand that are understanding it about themselves, so they're able to identify and group together and support in things. I I feel like there's a huge difference from when we were kids to, you know, to now. But what we're told we're supposed to be, even though it looks a little different now, it's still what we're told we're supposed to be. Whether we can agree with it or not. And there's still that that pressure of okay, but this is what you're supposed to do. When they got rid of the SATs as required and made it optional, mind you, I was pissed. Because I'm like, are you kidding me? I had to go through for that shit.

SPEAKER_02 31:34

I was you and me both. I was I was a low score on the SAT.

SPEAKER_04 31:39

And that in and of itself will break your entire soul. Yeah, you work so, so hard, and you're like, why do those numbers look like that? Wait, what? I've never agreed with standardized testing. Never, never, never, never, never, never, never ever agree with standardized testing because I am not standard.

SPEAKER_00 31:56

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 31:57

My favorite line in all of Hamilton, I am inevitable, I am an original. It's in the song, Wait for It.

SPEAKER_02 32:05

Yeah, thank you. Shout out to Leslie Ottoman and the congratulations on the first first Hamilton quote, shout out. What makes us podcast?

SPEAKER_01 32:17

Yeah, Sonia Bramley. First of the first shout out.

SPEAKER_04 32:20

And but it is it is so true. And even though that song is about him kind of kicking back and biding his time and letting things unfold in a safe way for him, as he, you know, and Hamilton being the one that just is balls to the wall, he knows what he wants, he goes after it, he's reckless. You have to find both of them in you to be okay, right?

SPEAKER_02 32:40

Oh, that's great.

SPEAKER_04 32:40

That yeah, sentence. I am inimitable, I am an original because I am. There is no one else like me. Right, right. And there shouldn't be. So if there's no one else like me and there shouldn't be, because I am supposed to be me and I'm supposed to be okay with that, why are you telling me I'm not?

SPEAKER_00 32:59

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 33:00

The hell with that. So I always try to make my kids understand. You know, my favorite analogy for them is their X-Men. Right. And if and we're we're a family of nerds, probably. I'm a problem, I wear it all day long.

SPEAKER_02 33:16

Let's drop the, let's drop the nerdiness. Let's let's make it make it mic drop, mic drop, mic drop right now. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 33:22

I have always raised my kids. They are they are X-Men, they have abilities and special things about them that are different from other people, and they're supposed to be good with that and help it. And not everybody's gonna understand, but that's okay because they don't need to. This is who they are, and it's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 33:39

I think that's probably the best description that anyone has made of X-Men.

Challenge And Support: Reducing Trauma

SPEAKER_04 33:46

But that's also neurospicy, yeah. That is exactly that's what neurospicy is. I'm different, I have abilities that other people don't. I have some stuff that uh it's a little bit harder for me to do, but I'm fantastic at this, and not everybody's gonna understand it, and not everybody's gonna rock with it, and that's okay because I'm not for everybody, right?

SPEAKER_00 34:04

Right.

SPEAKER_04 34:05

You know, um, I I got another quote I could do, but I'm like lemon pepper. Goes great, you'll notice if it's missing, but it's not for everything and everybody.

SPEAKER_01 34:13

Yeah. Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_04 34:14

And I'm good with that. It's the getting good with that. That doesn't mean that you have to master math and calculus and all these things. That doesn't mean that you have to read Tolstoy if you couldn't read five whole sentences two weeks before. Absolutely not. That doesn't mean that you have to master your neurodiversion, it means that you need to be good with it so you can move through it and be good with yourself.

SPEAKER_02 34:40

That's powerful. That's powerful. Good with it to be good for for yourself, right? Because it at the end of the day, yeah, there you go. Mic drop, mic drop, there you go. Right. I at the end of the day, right? There is you need to be you. You have to be you. You have to be okay with yourself, right? Because when when you're by yourself, if that self-talk is nothing but harm, that's gonna you're not gonna give yourself any options, you're not gonna give yourself any hope. Right. And you're truthfully at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_04 35:13

You're effectively removing it piece by piece, right?

SPEAKER_02 35:16

Because you've taken on the messages of all those people, all those systems, those groups. You've taken on all that and you've and you've made it your own when it's not, it's not yours, it's someone else's.

SPEAKER_04 35:32

So my daughter, for you know, the the lovely listeners, because Bertie already knows. My daughter is uh is on the autism spectrum. Yeah, she's what they used to consider low low spectrum, high functioning, though it's gotten changed ridiculously now. I'm not even getting started on that bullshit. Uh, she is partially verbal and has echolelia, which means that she is essentially a mimic, right? She she scripts different shows and different TV shows and things that she likes. Partially verbal now because she can say, I want nuggets, I want to watch TV, mind your business, get out of my room. All of these have developed fantastically.

SPEAKER_01 36:07

I wonder where they came from.

SPEAKER_04 36:09

Not a clue. And I just I do not appreciate the inference. Thank you very much. So she is she's fantastic. She is black Mexican and Creole. She has uh a cafe latte tone with long, thick, curly hair, beautifully long eyelashes, she's absolutely milk chocolate eyes. She's absolutely beautiful by a stitch. She's absolutely beautiful. And when I was growing up in the 90s, her aesthetic was the popularized aesthetic. For just so y'all know, I am age with freckles, long curly hair down to my back.

SPEAKER_02 36:52

Let's let's just actually make it clear. She would be exoticized and probably currently exoticized as it is now, as you were exoticized when we were younger, because you were light skinned. Right, right, right. Because of how unique you were, right? You're exoticized. I was putting that in a very good tone, it was a very nice tone. Okay. You know, you know, your uniqueness. I'm trying to, I'm trying to give you props here. You're not even and you're not even taking it. Let's be clear here. If this was on video, people would truly see. Like, I'm I'm over here being nice.

SPEAKER_04 37:30

You you guys would see the difficulty in how this is going. I know this is coming out like vinegar. He wants to call me an oompa loomba so bad. I you brought it up, you brought it up. This is the podcast. You're better than that.

SPEAKER_02 37:44

This is a podcast forever.

SPEAKER_04 37:47

I know that's fine. As long as you don't say it, we're fine.

SPEAKER_01 37:51

Okay, I won't say it. It's already been.

SPEAKER_04 37:55

I understand your point. And and yes, right, it exoticized. And so when we were growing up, that was, you know, I hate to say it too. That's like the video girl and all that other stuff. Right. And but going along with that is like the golden child mentality, right? Like this is the preferred, this is the preferred aesthetic. But to go with the preferred aesthetic has to be the behavior that goes with it. And oh, this is the perfect such and such, right? The perfect student, the perfect, you know, attitude, the perfect, all that bullshit. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 38:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 38:30

And you know, because you were also a golden child. The golden child responded, and it's a mantle, right? I say that both, I say that both sarcastically and 100% honestly. Um because it's also it's a title that gets put on you.

SPEAKER_02 38:46

Yeah, okay. And it's not necessarily a title that it just put on you in your home, because that was not how I was in my. It's a title outside the house. It's the influence that you get outside of the house and the groups that don't it still comes home though.

SPEAKER_04 39:00

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:02

And that's and that's and that's when your ass is got that's when your ass got torn up because you were bringing some shit home. That shouldn't have been brought home, right? Like it was too big. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Don't bring that shit in here. That's just psych.

SPEAKER_04 39:15

Yeah, it was too big, you know. So, but then all of that kind of goes together, right? So I realized later that the masking I was doing was across the board.

SPEAKER_03 39:26

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 39:27

Because, okay, this is what I'm supposed to be as a girl in 1997.

SPEAKER_00 39:31

Right.

SPEAKER_04 39:31

Yeah, right. How many times did y'all see them have to beat me to get makeup? My friends would sit on me to put makeup on me first to go out. Y'all want me to wear that skirt on purpose? I can't dance in that little shit. Like, you know, I was, I was not.

SPEAKER_00 39:44

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 39:45

Absolutely not what's supposed to go with that aesthetic, right? Way more of a tomboy, you know, would rather do a cartwheel than curtsy, even though my grandmother was adamant about me being raised a lady. And then, you know, school-wise, doing everything but my work because my work was killing it and driving me nuts.

SPEAKER_03 40:03

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 40:03

Right. So all of that and having to fit into that, and still again choosing the neurodivergency that I chose because that one was the safe one, because this one was horribly traumatizing and whatnot. And I see my my daughter, who is 16 now, okay, um, biologically, uh intellectually, she's more 910-ish, but absolutely what that teenage attitude gives him.

SPEAKER_03 40:30

I think her highness, don't forget the snap.

X‑Men Analogy And Embracing Difference

SPEAKER_04 40:33

Okay. When I think about how we were raised and how that was placed on us as a responsibility societally, right? Right. And not just not just like overall society, I mean within our culture, within our age group, with You know, with all that all that malarkey. I love, love, and I'm slightly envious of how much of a shit she does not give. Not one single because she does not have the awareness that she's supposed to be this and look like this and do this and what she doesn't have the concept of race and nationality. She doesn't have the concept. Now, now, if her hair is a mess, would she say do my hair? 100%.

SPEAKER_00 41:25

Right.

SPEAKER_04 41:25

She's gotten that far. But is she trying to wear the latest pair of Jordans? Is she tripping about the latest iPhone? Is she 16 out here wearing lashes and Ulta? Absolutely not. Yeah. Boy, please. Are you kidding me? If I would have asked my mom for that, then she'd have told me Maybelline was expensive enough for me to sit the hell down. She's not out here in Ulta spending$500 or something. Several seats for you. Several. Okay. She doesn't care. She doesn't have the awareness to care. So yeah, it's a little bit different. But that's so freeing.

SPEAKER_02 41:57

Yeah, it is. It is.

SPEAKER_04 41:58

That's so incredibly freeing. She is so good in her normal. I've had to have a friend tell me, baby, why do you think she's not happy? Because my version of happy or what she should be is happy, is not what she is, because it's based on a neurotypical ideology.

SPEAKER_00 42:21

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 42:23

She's good. She's got her fidgets, her hello kitty, her graham crackers, and her Mickey Mouse Clubhouse or DuckTales. Or when she feels like it, she's jamming to Justin and Bruno Mars and is happy as a clam in who she is and what she is. Does she get frustrated? Absolutely. Will she take somebody's head off that pisses her off? Also, absolutely. I'm good with that. But does she have any issue with what the world is telling her she needs to be and how she's supposed to be and how happy she is or not is because of her neurodivergence? Not one bit. I'm so jealous.

SPEAKER_02 43:09

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 43:09

Well, I and I love that for her.

SPEAKER_02 43:12

Yeah. And you know what? A lot of that is also because Mama Bear over here is also keeping that environment and making sure that she's in the space that is completely hers. And is it Mama has to right? You are you are shielding that and you're giving her the opportunity to grow to who she needs to be.

unknown 43:34

Right?

SPEAKER_02 43:34

I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_04 43:35

It's hard as hell.

SPEAKER_02 43:36

You're doing amazing. You're doing amazing. Your son, you know, your sons are absolutely geniuses and have been able to be and to be geniuses on their own, right?

SPEAKER_04 43:48

There wasn't like it wasn't like from their godfather, take this with at least a little bit of salt in the office.

SPEAKER_02 43:55

They are absolutely amazing. You know, every every single time that they've had a struggle, they've been able to figure it out, right? It and we were just there to listen, to offer maybe a very small amount of advice. Uh, and I feel to some degree like I haven't been there enough to see, but oh my God, they have figured it out of who they are, what they want to do, and then they go after it. And if they have a problem, if it doesn't work out exactly how it's supposed to, they're still able to push through it. That is what I almost believe half of college kids are missing. That's what I've always thought. Like, when you talk about the streets and the books, right? This was the kind of this is the thing that I had for many years in my life.

SPEAKER_04 44:41

Uh-huh. The streets and the books, right?

SPEAKER_02 44:44

I was never truly about the streets. I always, I think I always walked this fine line in between, right? Like, especially in high school. I I kind of that was maybe as close as I got to be in streets. That was I was close.

SPEAKER_04 44:59

Maybe that was not close.

SPEAKER_02 45:01

I, you know, for my for me, it was close. For me, it was close.

SPEAKER_03 45:05

For me, it was close.

SPEAKER_02 45:06

That was that was as far as my risk taking was gonna take me. Um, but you know, when I got into school and I saw these kids that were coming from, you know, Scotchdale, Arizona, they're coming from predominantly white communities, um, wealthy communities. These weren't these weren't broke folks, right? They would have a struggle and they would crumble.

SPEAKER_04 45:32

They would Oh my God, I remember you calling me when you came home. I was just we sat with uh we sat with something we weren't supposed to have at all.

SPEAKER_02 45:43

Okay, okay, okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 45:44

And we sat with it for we were talking for like two hours.

SPEAKER_02 45:47

It was crazy because I was just like trying to break down like what the hell was happening? Like, who are you know, how is it that we're survived? We've seen three times worse. And you know, we had our struggles, but it was kind of put within at least the context of what the struggle was, right? It wasn't like right, thank you. It was put into a perspective that was like on the scale of our lives, this is really not that much, right? Like it was one of those conversations. If we're really struggling, this is really not that much. It's just not that bad. This is like a moment. This is a moment, this isn't our whole life because we've seen when the moment has taken a whole life.

SPEAKER_04 46:35

We've experienced oh my god, say that again and drop the mic.

SPEAKER_02 46:39

Right? Like when the moment we've seen those, we've we've been close to experiencing those things, yeah. Right? We've been at that door, and luckily we didn't have to open it or someone didn't open it for us, right?

SPEAKER_04 46:53

100.

SPEAKER_02 46:54

So then that gave us perspective about that shit, is not really that shit.

SPEAKER_04 47:02

But what we also what we also didn't do at the time, which was not fair, right? Which was not fair at all. And I can say this as an adult, even though I still 100% agree with you, by the way. What we didn't think about at the time is that the struggles and the things that we went through and that we did, which were everyday life and which were much more regular America everyday life, right? The pressures and the things that we had were very different than the pressure put on some of those kids.

SPEAKER_01 47:30

Right. It was so right, right. We would call it.

SPEAKER_04 47:35

They felt huge to them because of how they were raised and how they grew up and the pressure put on them and all that stuff. So while we're looking at it like, um dude, smoke a button, calm down. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You're true. I don't even smoke, and I'm like, but here are you. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 47:51

We're not we're not gonna give you alcohol, don't drink, but just smoke a little bit. Just smoke a little bit.

SPEAKER_04 47:58

Yeah, yeah. You'll be all right, you know, to them, it was huge, and we we really weren't totally fair.

SPEAKER_02 48:05

No, no, no, totally completely. We there was so much judgment, so much judgment. So much judgment, so much judgment.

SPEAKER_04 48:11

No, no, no, no. We listen and we don't judge. No, we're not gonna do that.

SPEAKER_02 48:14

No, no, we judge, we judge hard. Yeah, hard. American idol judge, like yeah, yeah. But you're right, you're right. As we've gotten older, and we can see that everyone lives their life uh in the environment that they are able that they come into, right? It's not like they had a choice that this is who they were born to and and who they were around. And and those things are gonna be tough for them, just as it's tough for us. It was tough for us in how we were raised, right? But we still judge them hard because that because that shit was just little.

Parenting An Autistic Teen: Daily Realities

SPEAKER_04 48:51

But anyway, meeting you at school and being and being at your door of your dorm of your apartment or whatever it was. And this was probably like your I don't know, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:01

Probably wait, was it when I was barbecuing? It was maybe junior, senior, junior, yeah, junior.

SPEAKER_04 49:05

Yeah, it was barbecue. And remember, you telling me, like, so this is what you're not gonna wear. I'm like, whoop the what, sir? Right, and you were never like that. You you were one of the only ones that did not give me crap. So I'm sitting there like, um, okay, clearly I'm talking to the private.

SPEAKER_02 49:19

Clearly, you're talking to the kid that is starting to assimilate into a culture that was not into all of this mess.

SPEAKER_04 49:25

I'm like, I'm gonna wear what I'm gonna wear, and you're gonna be getting the fuck over it. But I remember like coming and like hearing all these people talk, and I'm just kind of sitting back, kicking it, you know. And you I think like one of your really good friends was there that that was another male. And you know, I've known him for some years, so it's like I'm gonna talk to the one I've known for some years because the the ovaries over here are irritating my soul. And and just talking to some of the, you know, some of the other Anglo-Saxons that were in there and hearing, oh, and yeah, and this, and you know, I just I have this going on. I think I'm just gonna like pop a pop a perk and then what pop a pop a what? Yep, yeah, pop a perk. You can't pop a perk, a perk is a happy addition. You mean pop a perk? My closed insult.

SPEAKER_00 50:13

Right, right.

SPEAKER_04 50:14

And he's like, no, pop a perk, because that way it'll mellow me out and this and this, and then I really won't care if my mom is mad that I got a B minus because she's gonna pay for it anyway, and she's with her next husband. What?

SPEAKER_02 50:26

Yep, yep.

SPEAKER_04 50:28

Are you kidding? And having the same guy offer me, you know, said enhancement. I'm like, oh, I'm going home. Okay. And I went over and told you, um, Bradley over there talking about blah blah blah blah. And you're like, yeah, he'll be all right in like 20 minutes. But uh he has this problem weekly. Don't even worry about it. Talking about his mom again. Oh, okay. Something about somebody being in Mallorca or some other shit like that. Doesn't he know people are getting shot?

SPEAKER_02 50:59

You know, no, no, no, no. It was people are dying. It was crazy, right? It and that was a couple hours away from us. That you know, California, a couple hours away. A couple uh California, which is what it Los Angeles is, you know, that area.

SPEAKER_04 51:18

One of the reasons why I I felt like I needed to leave LA was because there is just I was devastated, devastated on you.

SPEAKER_02 51:29

I it was just like 20 minutes away from me is a completely different experience. In any direction. In any direction. How is that possible? How is it possible that 20 minutes away, five, 10, 20 minutes away is a completely different experience. Um, as I've gotten older and uh and I've experienced the world, you know, we don't talk about redlining enough. We don't talk about we don't talk about in cultural enclaves and and how they how that skews your perception of officials.

SPEAKER_04 52:06

Because it's not as apparent here, it's not as apparent here. With all of that, it's all Cali versus somewhere like New York, where it is very defined in terms of the neighborhoods, right?

SPEAKER_02 52:17

Right, right. And now now New York is economically, you can see the the definition. But we're kind of we're we're moving away from our topic of New York. New York or we're going into something else.

SPEAKER_03 52:27

It was gonna happen.

SPEAKER_02 52:28

I do want to bring this up now, though. Uh talk, can you talk to me a little bit about the projects that you have going on? Because we've we've discussed this, and I think they're amazing projects because it is a part of that advocacy and awareness that you have been championing for years. Now, and I just want to make sure we put it down on uh USB, not on Wax, but on USB, because you know, this is a podcast.

SPEAKER_04 52:54

We're not burning it on the CD.

SPEAKER_02 52:56

We're not burning it on CD, we're putting it on the USB. Uh Katie, talk to me about what are some of the projects that you have in the pipeline right now as a director, writer, producer, your mini hats. Uh, but this is what I think is really important. Yeah, I think this is important.

SPEAKER_04 53:16

So there, well, there's a couple, yes. Um I don't even know where to start because I was hoping you didn't ask me about that part of it. All right, so I'm still thinking of it. Okay, so well, there's a couple things. One, um, I am a gifted individual, and I don't say that to toot my own horn, but too.

SPEAKER_00 53:35

You are you are gifted.

SPEAKER_04 53:37

Uh, and I wrote a book, and it is not just a book, it is a journal, it's a guided journal experience for people that are kind of you know tiptoeing into that and need to let some shit go. Yeah. And I wrote it being someone that had a hard time talking to other people about letting shit go and things that really bothered me, um, just for myself, doesn't have to be attached to other people, doesn't have literally just things for myself. So I created a journal that's full of my foul mouth and my bossy attitude. Uh, that literally, if you get to the end of it and you look back and you didn't write enough, it tells you you didn't do shit, start again. And you know, so but that kind of goes hand in hand because we're working on a second book, actually, that is going into what I am doing, which is writing and producing for TV and film. Um I started out wanting to create a doc series about life as an autism family, right? And it wasn't just it wasn't just as an autism, like an autistic person. I've I've seen in media so much, so, so, so much. And and to begin with, let me say I am glad that I've seen because when they say representation matters, I don't care who doesn't think so. You're wrong. Sit down. Either that or you've seen yourself represented so many times that you're jaded to it.

SPEAKER_00 55:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 55:03

So let me tell you, representation is paramount. But the representation that I had seen of people on the spectrum were of the savants, right? It is of someone on the spectrum that, you know, may have some severe social behaviors, um, and the lack of understanding of social behaviors or you know, things of that nature, hard with the eye contact, blah, blah, blah. But they're a brilliant neurosurgeon or they're a brilliantly gifted musician, or what. And that that absolutely is part of the community. It's a beautiful part. It's a minority. It's a small part of the community, right? And I got sick of seeing it because I was really wanting to see my daughter up there. And I think it really stemmed from not wanting to feel like I was the only one going through something, even though I know good and damn well I'm not. My brother-in-law has an autistic son, you know, our oldest nephew. I'm sorry, our middle nephew, and he's fantastic and awesome. So we have, we actually have three or four in the family, as a matter of fact. So I knew I wasn't alone, but just wanting to see more things across the board and see things, not so stereotypical, because it pissed me off. So, and what I really want to do is create a doc series, not about the not just about the autism and the person that deals with, but about the family and what we deal with, right? So in our family, we've always said we're a family with autism. We don't just say our daughter has autism, right? Which I mean, we do if we're happening to say specifically. We've always said, oh no, we're our our family has autism. Okay. And it's true if you have one person that is neurodivergent in your family to a degree that it definitely impacts everyday life. Right. It doesn't just impact theirs. Your whole life is built around it.

SPEAKER_01 56:53

Right.

Representation In Media And A New Doc Series

SPEAKER_04 56:53

It is what it is. Okay. I wanted to see that, and I wanted other people to see that and see it coming from someone that is a family of color that was not afraid to talk about it because unfortunately, a lot of families of color are. I experiencing it in my own one part of my own family now, and it's ridiculous, right? A lot of families of color are. And I wanted other people to not feel alone and feel seen. My daughter is part of the majority. She is nonverbal. She has severe behaviors when she's pissed off or frustrated. She has stimming issues and sensory issues and all kind of all kinds of different things that go along with, you know, being ASD, um, autism spectrum disorder, just so you know. She she a lot of those a lot of those different behaviors. Um, and I I see so many other kids, just since being a mom of someone on the spectrum, I can spot it in seconds. You know, you know how we were raised. If you were cutting up in the grocery store, man, whoo, I think I went to the store with your dad one time and said something to your brother sideways, and your dad was like, I was like, just kidding, just kidding, just kidding.

SPEAKER_02 58:13

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 58:14

But you know, we were but now I want people to empathize and understand that if you see a kid cutting up in the store, it might not just be because they're a badass kid.

SPEAKER_01 58:27

Right.

SPEAKER_04 58:27

Now it might be 100%, but it might not be because they're a badass kid. It might be because they're frustrated, they're overly stimulated, they're having a hard time understanding the difference between sprite and coke and why they can't have both of them. They they may be having a hard time because the light is too bright and the sounds are too loud and they hurt. And the clothes on their back literally are hurting because their nerves are fried because they're overstimulated. They just want to get the hell out of there. But mom still has to grocery shop.

SPEAKER_00 58:57

Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_04 58:59

Brother still has to go to practice.

unknown 59:01

Right.

SPEAKER_04 59:02

Dad still has to cook dinner because mom is trying to get through bathing someone and combing hair out of a child that should air quotations, be able to do it themselves, but they can't process it, they don't understand. All of these things are still happening in real life every single day. So I wanted the general public to be able to see this and hopefully develop some empathy and some understanding of the fact that not everybody is just like you. Please don't judge and look when you're at Walmart.

SPEAKER_00 59:34

Yeah. Yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_04 59:36

And and develop some understanding of what the family is going through and dealing with and all of those things in the situation. And for the other families to, you know, to be able to see it and go, oh my God, my daughter does the same thing. That's what she does. Well, cool. I do this. Maybe we can talk, maybe we can help each other, maybe we can identify. Maybe a father or a mother will release that guilt that they're carrying that it's their fault.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:01

Yeah. That they did it. That's huge. That's huge.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:04

It's, you know, my ex-husband and I realized years later, and I mean we realized this a couple of years ago, that we never processed properly, that our daughter was on the spectrum, right? We already have a nephew, like I said, that's on the spectrum. So by the time our daughter was born three years later and started exhibiting signs, we knew. We were like, oh yeah, this is what it is. My former sister-in-law, uh, who I learned to be a beast from from her because she was no joke with the advocacy at all. Um, she said, Yep, here, go to this doctor, do this, you know, blah, blah, blah. And we at the time were very, okay, she's on the spectrum. We need to get therapy going, we need to get diagnosed. With this, we need to apply for this. We need to get this, you know. We were very about which you know that's me anyway. I speak out later, I get to the business now, right? And so we we got right into the business. We had our quick little cry, and that's enough. I think my brother-in-law actually cried longer than we did about our kid getting diagnosed. He was heartbroken, right? First, first niece diagnosed, and he's like, Oh my god, it's the end of the world. We're like, dude, calm down, right? But because of how my my nephew progressed, um, and his verbal skills are different than my daughter. He can completely understand if you say, Hey, how was your day? He goes, It's good. He just he doesn't articulate it as well. So it's it's a little hard to understand, right? So we were thinking, well, from how he was when he was little to how he got older, okay, she's gonna probably progress like that. No, we were dumb as shit, right? So we just we just handled, didn't think about when she got to um menstrual age. And when she got, you know, to these different things. And it wasn't until we had a conversation doing one of her her assessments every year that we have to do that we call it the we call it the fuck you test, because it is a it's an assessment of a whole bunch of stuff our kid can't do. Yeah. That helped to create her programs and her therapies and things like that.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:15

It's a huge confidence crush.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:17

It is depressing as shit. So, and I my my boyfriend now, his um his brother is a behavioral therapist, and he asked me, he goes, you know, how often do you guys apologize for her being on the spectrum? And I was like, I mean, every day. He said, No, like legitimately. Oh, I'm so sorry she's on the spectrum. I was like, shit. Literally every day. Every day, all day, every day. And he didn't say one word past that. That's all he said. And I called my ex-husband because we had to do the the FU test. And I asked him, I said, dude, do you realize how often we apologize for her being on the spectrum? Like when we're at Walmart, we're at the grocery store, you know, somebody's trying to talk to her and she's not responding back and all that kind of stuff. And or she's tripping out, and we're like, I'm so sorry she's on the spectrum, trying to hurry up and get out, and you know, even amongst our family, trying to do damage control if she's losing it and breaking stuff and he's dealing with her, I'm trying to deal with, you know, all in total. And he goes, No, but we're gonna stop right now. And just that is something that other families need to see and understand that it is not just them that has to have that conversation and realization to themselves and process.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:43

That's that's a lot, that's a lot.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:45

Because then we got to the point of my daughter is probably not gonna drive, not gonna get married and give us grandbabies, not going to lead that type of life, and that's totally fine and okay. But if that's the case, we may have to medically make sure she can't have babies because she has no safety awareness and let that whole thing sink in.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:13

That's right, yeah, that's uh that's I don't even know where to go.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:18

So to therapy. So yeah, I I created the doc series to literally put all of that out there so that other people could see it and know that they were not by themselves and this shit is hard. And it's okay to say it's hard and I'm tired, and I don't fucking feel like doing this today. And it has nothing to do with how much you love your child, how much you are dealing with your own neurodivergence and trying to deal with someone else's. None of that. You could just say I'm fucking tired and I'm so glad somebody else is tired too.

Stigma In Families Of Color And Empathy

SPEAKER_02 1:05:00

Yeah, yeah. So from that, I that's apologize. No, no, don't yeah, hey, you were supposed to apologize. Um that's but that's real life. I and thank you for sharing that because I hope that people here are able to listen all the way to the end of our podcast. This amazing, amazing truth, right? Like, yeah, and the fact that the guilt that you're sitting with and having to feel like you have to apologize to the world for who your daughter is. That's tough.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:41

You're not gonna make me cry.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:43

Um, I'm not gonna make you cry. So I am looking forward to how this project progresses because I, like you said, it needs to be done. You know, there's there's so much awareness that's continues that needs to happen. We need to stop putting people in boxes, we need to stop putting putting things on top of others, you know, forcing conformity when it doesn't fit.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:10

You know that one in six adults, no, I'm sorry, eight one in eight adults now, 2025 are neurodivergent to one degree or another, right? Right. A lot of it to one degree in it, one in eight adults. Think about how much of the actual world that is.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:34

Yeah, it's it's actually it should be if we're gonna say that, it should be reversed. It should be neurotypical, is actually the neurodivergent, and neurodivergent is the neurotypical, right? And the church said yeah, right? Like, because then you know, it's it's universal design, right? Universal design is that everybody is a part of the conversation, not just the able bodies, right? Everyone is a part of this conversation, not just the muggles, right? Not just the loved is it, not just the muggles, right? It's so you know, when you brought up the X-Men, I'm gonna go back to this X-Men thing. When you brought up the X-Men conversation, the first thing that propped in my mind was, you know, oh, mutants, right? Like that was the whole phrase to other, right? Was was mutants. Oh, you're talking about the mutant.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:23

Originally concepted on race, continued.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:26

Right, right, right. But then it you can attach it, you can attach that concept to every single thing, right? You're different from what is out there, and you are special regardless of that.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:41

Period.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:42

Period. So as we come to a close, what do you want to share with folks?

SPEAKER_04 1:07:49

It's probably gonna be another quote.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:52

I'm okay with that.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:54

I have two of them, actually.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:56

Okay, go for it.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:57

Um, so one is from Record Ralph, and it's a meeting that the villains are all having. And it he it it's basically him saying, I'm a bad guy, and that's okay. You know, just because you look at me this way doesn't actually make me that I'm good with who I am. Okay. The other is from my favorite movie ever in life. I'm setting him up here because you better not say one word. It's from my favorite movie ever in life, Willie Wonk and the Chocolate Factory. And the quote is we are the music makers, we are the dreamers of the dreams. We decide who we are. I made the music because I dreamt it up. However, crazy it is, however you look at it, I did it, I enjoy it, it's for me. I am what I am supposed to be. And it doesn't matter how long it takes you to get there, understanding that it's gonna be a bitch on that road, and it's and it's going to be hard, and there's so much more you're fighting than you even realize you're still you. And that's what you're supposed to be. There's there's never you're not supposed to be anybody else. There's already everybody that's everybody else. You're just supposed to be you, and that's probably the best thing that you can be. So if being you is neurospicy because you know you got some shit going on and you're gonna work with it. Yeah, congratulations.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:39

Beautiful, beautiful. That's uh that's just amazing, and and thank you for sharing such such a an amazing story in depth. Love you, love you, love you, love you. And that's right.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:52

Love you, love you.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:53

That's podcast world. All right, with that note, thank you, Sonia, for gracing us with your amazing, amazing presence um and potty mouth.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:04

Uh I just thank you for that. Thank you, Brian. This was amazing.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:11

Thank you for listening to What Makes Us. Well, it is a new year. Congratulations, happy new year. You've made it to 2026, and obviously, it has been a doozy of 2025. So for many of us, it's been a struggle. And I hope that this podcast has been at least some brightness in the middle of all of that confusion. And hopefully you found inspiration in what we've been doing. Uh listening to all the amazing stories from our guests. Uh, I have to tell you, 2025, this first year has just been absolutely amazing. And so, with that, I'm really excited to see what 2026 has to offer, and that we will really push it to make sure that we find some new voices, different voices, to be able to really share stories, right? And be inspiring and really push the envelope to 2026. So, thank you for all of your efforts. Thank you for your all of your support. Love. We're almost at a thousand downloads, and I'm super excited for it. I think in the next couple episodes, we will be there. So, with that, thank you so much. I appreciate all the love, and I'm looking forward to next year.