For the Love of Creatives: Unlocking the Power of Community
Imagine a space where your creative spark is truly seen, a community where people get you. That’s what Maddox and Dwight bring each week on For the Love of Creatives. As your hosts and “connections and community guys,” they dive into conversations that bridge the gap from solo journeys to powerful collaborations, transforming “me” into “we.”
In each episode, explore a variety of engaging formats, from insightful dialogues between Maddox and Dwight to conversations with everyday creatives who’ve overcome challenges to reach new heights. You’ll meet fellow artists, innovators, and heart-centered creators sharing their stories, and together, we’ll discover what it means to create, collaborate, and co-elevate.
Tune in, share, and join us each week as we celebrate the magic of community-driven creativity.
For the Love of Creatives: Unlocking the Power of Community
#014: Berend McKenzie Finds His Voice: Art, Addiction, and the Power of Community
Join us for a powerful conversation with Berend McKenzie, who candidly shares his journey through creativity, resilience, and the vital importance of community. In this episode, we explore how Berend's early challenges, including struggles with ADHD and past traumas, propelled him toward the arts and shaped his identity as a creative.
Berend opens up about mentors who guided him on his path, demonstrating how crucial these connections were in helping him transform adversity into artistic expression. As he reflects on his vulnerabilities, he emphasizes how embracing these aspects has not only enriched his work but inspired authenticity in others.
We dive into the role of community in Berend's life, especially how being actively involved with various groups has provided support and motivation during dark times. As a resilient creative, Berend reminds us that isolation is one of the most significant threats to an artist’s journey, encouraging listeners to seek and engage in supportive environments.
Throughout the episode, we are reminded of the power of vulnerability, mentorship, and connection. Berend's final words challenge us to "just say yes." Reflecting on the opportunities that arise from this simple act, he illustrates how life can transform when we open ourselves up to new experiences. Don’t miss this inspiring episode that invites you to embrace your creative journey!
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For the Love of Creatives Community
room full of other alcoholics to go. Oh, my god, I'm not the worst person in the room because she's far worse than I am, you know. You know I'm not the best person in the room, because you know I'm not the best person in the room because he has nicer shoes than I do. Right, like it keeps you right. Community keeps me right-sized. Community keeps me engaged, right-sized and feeling like I have a place and that's my job. I can't. None of the things that have happened for me since I moved to Toronto the only reason why they've happened is because I took the step to go out to these things to make myself seen and heard, and when I wasn't doing that, I found disillusionment, I found victimhood and I found isolation and loneliness. Victimhood and I found isolation and loneliness.
Speaker 2:Wow, man, you could not have summed it up better or more clearly. I mean, this is the theme of everything we're about at For the Love of Creatives and you just wow. Hello and welcome to For the Love of Creatives podcast. I'm Maddox.
Speaker 3:And I'm Dwight. We're the.
Speaker 2:Connections and Community Guys, and today we are joined by our featured guest, barron McKenzie. Hello, welcome, barron. So glad to see you. Just so the audience knows, I know Barron because he was a guest on my previous podcast a little over two years ago, so it's a reunion. We haven't seen each other since then.
Speaker 1:I know, and it's so good to see you Feels like a whole lifetime.
Speaker 2:We've had a lifetime. Since we've seen each other, lots have changed. Yes, well, I'm going to turn it over to you and let you tell the audience a little bit about yourself.
Speaker 1:Well, all right then, my name is Barry McKenzie. I am an actor, writer, producer living in Toronto, canada, and yeah, I'm a playwright. I write short stories, artists anything artistic I love to sink my hands into. And, yeah, I'm really happy to be here.
Speaker 3:Good to have you. Yeah, glad you've joined us. Could you tell us a little bit about how you got started on the creative path?
Speaker 1:Sure, I've been a creative. I was a creative kid, like you know. I think my first skill was learning how to lie. You know, I wasn't always the best actor when it came to lying. I always got those big, wide eyes and turned kind of pale and my family could always tell when I was lying. But it sure gave me a goal to work towards to see if I could get away with the lie. But I've always been creative. I've always been. I've always been creative. I've always been drawn to anything I I movies, tv shows.
Speaker 1:Uh, my first love was listening and I was just thinking about this the other day, listening to um, the grim, all those really dark fairy tales, like I was. I was so young and I was a toddler and we had these and I just remember the, the mood of them and the way, the vocalization of these stories and the darkness of them and the light of them. And I think even at that point in my life I was sort of synapsing off of those two things, the dark and the light and it just followed. I just followed through. I kind of stumbled into things. I'm a stumbler into life. I don't realize I can do something or I'm attracted to something, unless I stumble into it, and then it becomes a passion, and so, yeah, I've been creating pretty much all my life.
Speaker 3:That's wonderful.
Speaker 2:I'm curious so, as this began to show up in your life. Wonderful, I'm curious, so, as this began to show up in your life, what kind of messages did you get from those around you? You know the, the people, that their words have great influence on us.
Speaker 1:Um, with my family. I I sucked at school Like I was terrible, I had ADHD, dyslexic, and I had a learning disability. So I think my parents, my adoptive parents I was adopted at the age of one grew up in a white family. We grew up all over northern Alberta, which is, uh, very conservative. Not no people of color, black and indigenous, but other than that, um, and so I think my family, my parents, were just glad that I found something that I was half decent at, like I, at one point I could really sing and I didn't know I could sing.
Speaker 1:It was grade four or five and a teacher came up. His name was Mr Gilchrist and we had just moved to this very small town and and life for me at home was not very good. And in my first class we had a choral, a choir class, and he came and stood beside each of us and he spent a lot of time beside me and when the class was over he called me to the side and said oh, my God, I'm in trouble. It's like barely two hours into school, my, you know my, my fifth year and I'm I'm already in trouble. It's like, barely two hours into school, my, you know my, my fifth year and I'm I'm already in trouble. And he said you have a really good voice, would you like to join the choir? And I was like sure, but up until that point, like I like to sing. But I didn't know I could sing and that then turned into being featured in these school assemblies where you know Joseph. I played Joseph in Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat and got Noah and his floating zoo and all these sort of.
Speaker 1:I was always featured in these things and it really at that age, at that time in my life, meant so much because I come from a childhood where abuse is a part of my story and school and choir was a real escape for me and in a world and a time when I didn't feel special, this one teacher really did allow me to discover that I had something to offer the world besides, uh, problems and lying and stealing and acting out and and abuse and and and being beat up by my father. So you know it was. That's where it started. I've had, I'd had, and ever since then I've had mentors all my life.
Speaker 1:None of my work, none of my, none of what I've done in my life would be possible without the um, the beautiful help in hand I've gotten from people who know way more about what I'm trying to achieve than I do. So I've really, since that time, I've kept my eye out for the people that are my champions and I hold on to them like life rafts. I think that that's part of my job is to find the people who I know are my champions and who believe in what I do, aren't jealous of what I do or bring to the table, and only are there to inspire me and to support me.
Speaker 2:And does this show up as collaborations or true mentorships?
Speaker 1:And does this show up as collaborations or true mentorships? This I was so screwed up coming into college I was 19. It was the. I'd lived through the. I came out when I was. I ran away from home when I was 15. I lived on the streets of Edmonton as a queer gender. I thought I was very confused about my gender, found a community of drag queens at this bar in Edmonton, alberta, and became a drag queen and learned how to perform with them. So they were kind of my initial mentors. You know, don't steal, show up, rehearse, you know all those like street smart things that drag queens are really good at teaching you and how to do my makeup, take pride in my work, all that stuff.
Speaker 1:And then the AIDS pandemic hit and suddenly at a very young age I was going to three or four funerals a month and drinking alcoholically and really lost in my life. And I was at about an age of 19,. A friend of mine could see that my alcoholism was getting worse and told me if you don't, you're just going to be a drunken loser all your life. And I was like, yeah, well, fuck you. And so I showed up, hung over to this audition for a musical theater program and how I made it through that audition I have no idea. Like I was literally in between the dance and ballet, which I can't do either, and ballet, which I can't do either. But during those audition times I was sleeping in a on a on a mat underneath a stairwell, just trying to get some energy up for the next phase. But I fluked into this, into this, I stumbled into this program and that's where I met Tim Ryan and a lot of the other professors.
Speaker 1:What I got, especially in the early 80s, you had to fit into a category right Well, in Alberta and Edmonton at that point I was the only Black kid in that program and they didn't know what to do with me because I had a high voice. I wasn't like gangster black, I was more I don't know Bob, the Drag Queen black. You know, I was more Faye than Hood and I literally was told by the main acting professor that there was no space for me in this career at all. And Tim was the one that championed me and said no, absolutely, there is space. And that really gave me courage and gave me the inspiration to work harder and to.
Speaker 1:At that time in my life I liked being underestimated, because that gave me the drive to prove you wrong. Now I've changed that. I've changed that idea of being underestimated. Now I demand when I meet people. Now I don't underestimate you. If you tell me you can do something, I believe you and I expect the same thing back. And I think that that's one of the things that Timothy taught me was you know, you have to have respect for yourself and you have to demand to be seen and heard and you have to work hard. And so he was my first, and then it just went from there to a bunch of mentors and everything else.
Speaker 2:So those are amazing life lessons, are they not what? An amazing gift.
Speaker 1:Amazing, amazing, especially at that time, because you know there were no angels in America. There was all that stuff. But even then those plays did not have people like me in them, unless somebody like Tim thought outside like I hate the fact that he would have to think outside of the box to put me into a show, but that's that's what I got all the time. And then, at the age of 21, I was diagnosed HIV positive and that's when sort of I just thought I was going to die. And so I lived my life for many years addicted and very sick and almost died, until I got sober in 20. Oh, it's been 22 years, 20. It'll be 23 years this year that I got sober Congratulations.
Speaker 2:That is an enormous accomplishment.
Speaker 1:Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2:Bravo.
Speaker 1:Thank you. I appreciate it. But once that happened, because of those years of darkness where I wasn't taking part in life and not taking part in art and not seeking mentorship, I'd lost contact with everybody that supported me because I was just too awful to be around. I really, once I got sober, I thought, if I could do good stuff when I was high and drunk, what could I do sober? So once again, I started looking for those mentors and those people that believed in me, and those came in the form of agents who saw something in me, casting agents who saw something in me and cast me in my first couple of films and I really did dive into the acting film and TV acting.
Speaker 1:I worked with Halle Berry and Catwoman. I worked with Angelina Jolie in my very first film was with Angel Angelina Jolie right after she, uh, won the Oscar. Um, both terrible movies, but I was in them. So, hey, I got paid, um, and it really was a process of me looking for those people that believed in my talent, believed in what I brought to the table and who I could also enhance their lives. Right Like, it's not just about me taking, it's really about me also bringing value and value to what you do, bringing value and value to what you do, and that was a lesson that I had to learn that it's not just about taking, taking, taking, it's about giving back, and I think that's what you guys do with your, with your podcast, which is really exciting.
Speaker 3:Well, thank you, we're honored for that recognition. I am curious about how you mentioned that you have been inspired by your mentors. Yeah, you've had those people who've encouraged you. Have you had the opportunity to be a mentor for others, and what's that been like?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I have. I mean, I just learned, I just treated other people the way I was treated and it's been super rewarding. It's been as an alcoholic I don't know if anybody has alcoholics in their lives, but we tend to be very selfish and I'm an actor, so it's about me all the time, even and and sometimes my way of getting to connect with you is by delving into my own story in order, and that can sometimes seem self-serving and sort of making it about me when it's not. So being a mentor has really allowed me to give of myself without expectation of getting anything back and no ownership. I've had mentors that came in as mentors and left as dangerous, because what I found is that they wanted to own my work. They wanted to own what I do. They wanted to take credit for the things that I'd done and I would never say that I, none of my work and none of the plays or anything that I've done was ever done on my own steam alone. But for them to take credit for my work, that was a bridge too far. So for me as a mentor, I won't really get into mentorship with somebody if I feel that there's any sort of competition with them, If I feel a little bit of like, oh, jealousy, like, oh, I wish I had what they had, and that doesn't happen often. So I've really been able to work with some really exciting new filmmakers and writers and you're just there to listen, like there, to support, there, to be encouraging, giving notes to writers.
Speaker 1:A lot of people don't know how to do that. A lot of people are dream killers, especially in the film industry, which I've learned we were talking earlier. One of my favorite sayings is say yes before I say no. And what I've learned through even just giving notes to mentees, that my job is not to tell you no, this can't be done, or no, that's not a good idea, or no. Why would you even think that? My job, I feel, is to say yes to everything that you're doing, but also giving my own honesty about where I think you could maybe push the story into a new direction or do this with it or take it. Maybe this character might be able to do this. So it's about it's about nuance. Mentorship for me is about nuance. How I speak to the mentee really can be the difference between failure and and success for them, and I don't want to be in the failure category ever.
Speaker 2:Beautiful. I love that. Maren, you have been blessed to have, throughout your life, guardian angels have shown up, these people that have believed in you and mentored you, and even though there was a few in there that tried to take advantage of you, you've still been really, really blessed with all that has shown up.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:What did you? What do you believe that you did or that you were that attracted those people to you? Because you know we live, I'm a firm believer in the law of attraction. Nothing's coincidental. You showed up in life in a manner that drew those people to you. Can you identify what that was?
Speaker 1:you. Can you identify what that was? Well, I think it has to do with uh, for me it had to do with the skill set that I brought, like when I met that, that, that that teacher in grade five, about the singing. I had the tool. I was raw and didn't know how to use it. His job was to teach me. But once I think I brought, I bring passion. I bring, I bring a sort of still, even at the age of 56. I bring like a childlike naivete to things. I bring a curiosity. I ask a stupid amount of questions. I take risks with my work as a writer.
Speaker 1:I knew right away that I had a very distinctive voice. I'm teachable, distinctive voice, I'm teachable. I'm accountable. I show up for deadlines. I push through when it's really, really difficult. Those are all things that I just got from life. I think I had to do that in my life. I had to push myself to show up even when I didn't want to. So I think a lot of these mentors that I have gotten, we see in each other what we see in ourselves, or vice versa. Um, I see what I see in you, I see in me, and I think they just saw that I had that, that drive to to move forward can we go a little deeper?
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm, I think you're right onto something there. You know, we've all known people that showed up with the talent and the skill and accountability and the drive and all those things that you mentioned and still didn't get any breaks Right? I think that you're teetering right on the edge of it. I think that you're teetering right on the edge of it. Maybe it was. You know, you said people show up and reflect back to what was it that you must have been, the way you were showing up, that you were reflecting to them. You know, it's something inside here. It's not what you were doing, it's. I just have to believe it was something inside that drew all of those people to you.
Speaker 1:I mean, it's a really good question and it's funny that that, like I have been working with two amazing mentors I've discovered through some writing programs since I moved to Toronto, specifically last year.
Speaker 1:I found a really amazing film mentor and on the other hand, I found an amazing TV writing mentor and the other day I was like one of them. His name is Anthony Q Farrell. He wrote on the Office, he's an award-winning showrunner, he's the TV guy and he is just one of the most amazingly supportive, beautiful, encouraging humans that you could ever have in your life and, for whatever reason, he has chosen to really take me under his wing. Same with Mitch LeBlanc he is one of Canada's up and coming film writers Smart, dedicated, funny, all those things and he too is somebody that I met this last year and has taken me under his wing. And just the other day I was thinking like how did I get so blessed? What did I do to deserve and to attract these people into my life? And to not answer your question. I don't know. I really don't know what that is.
Speaker 2:I think I know, as you continue to talk, it is becoming kind of it's coming into focus Everything that you're saying. It's coming into focus Everything that you're saying and then, built in with my own intuition, which is really strong, I get that it's because you hold a certain belief system. What is that belief system? You hold a certain belief system that makes this all possible Not just possible, but probable.
Speaker 1:You've attracted these people to you, but you've done it with a belief system.
Speaker 3:Oh my God, these are questions that I get asked and then I need to like spend a year contemplating, oh and I think that's valid for me. I think that's valid.
Speaker 1:That's definitely something that taps far beneath the surface yeah, and I I think it's a really great question. I think my belief system, uh, the core of it is you know what? I really do not know what I sit down. I think, for me, it's about I've never enjoyed life. I think, for me, it's about I've never enjoyed life. I've never been somebody that woke up in the morning and went oh my goodness, I can't wait to see what tomorrow brings or today brings. I've never been that person and I think what has pushed me forward is almost that determination to find the joy of life before my life is over, to find that morning where I wake up and go. I can't wait to see what today brings. Morning where I wake up and go. I can't wait to see what today brings.
Speaker 1:Last year, in 2022, was probably the hardest year I ever had, because I'd moved across the country. I'd lost my partner of 28 years in 2019. And that's when Maddox and I first met. I had just moved to Edmonton, I was broken. The grief was so heavy and deep that I just needed a shift and change, moved across the country when I started writing film and television and wanting to take this risk while I could, with my age, with the money that I had. But and it landed here in Toronto thinking that everything would just be laid at my feet and I, I spent like a year of no's. Every door I tried to open was a no, every single thing that I attempted and tried to push through was a no. And this time last year, at Christmas time, on Christmas day, I wrote out a suicide note and, and you know, I, I sought help, I got help and I think, like I want to learn how to, I really would love to learn how to love life and I think that's what keeps me going, and I think that's what keeps me going, and oftentimes I need people to see what I bring to the table before I see it in myself. And sort of as soon as I got help with the suicide stuff, the ideation and the planning last year, all of a sudden this last year just blew up for me Like all these opportunities, all these mentorship opportunities, these money-making doors and gates open, these connections with people in the industry that I could only have dreamed of. So, to be completely honest, with that very sort of deep question, I don't know what my driving force is. All I know is that art has saved my life on every level, at every time, in every way imaginable, art has been the thing that has saved me from myself. It's saved me from others. It's saved me from the world, specifically now with what's happening in the United States and in Canada as well the rise of the right and the transphobia, and the hatred and the fear.
Speaker 1:The day after the election and I was I spent three weeks just. I had so much hope and I hadn't allowed myself to have hope about an election for many, many years. And the dread and the anxiety and the sadness and the fear that overtook me at the night of the election when I saw where it was going, the complete devastation and the disbelief that people could be this stupid. I woke up that next morning and the only thing I knew to do was to sit down at my computer, open up my script that I've been working on that's about AIDS and hockey and addiction and dive headfirst into that. And by, I think, I opened that document at eight o'clock in the morning. By seven o'clock at night, I ate dinner Like it, literally. And I knew then that the only thing that's going to save me right now save my mental health, save my spirit, which is just starting to sort of heal from the suicide. Stuff is my art, is my art. That's the driving force.
Speaker 2:You know, barron, I just have to say this is so unbelievably rich because I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that there are going to be so many people when they listen to this that can identify so completely, people who are either in it right now or have gone through it or are on their way into it. You know, you had a whole year where nothing, no breakthroughs, a whole year after you moved where you just couldn't win for losing, and then all of a sudden something shifted and the next year has just been like, wow, right, am I understanding correctly?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Something shifted inside of you. Yeah, that's the only way that can happen. Something shifted inside of you and I kind of keep kind of tipping back to it because this is so powerful If you can identify what shifted in you, others will hear this and be able to identify what needs to shift in them, even your mentees that you work with.
Speaker 1:This is so rich no-transcript or sorry, there's somebody at my door. Sorry that's okay. Sorry, god sorry, I haven't had anybody show up at my door. That means a gentleman caller, nothing. He's been trying to get in my door for the last 15 minutes. Anyways, sorry, there was something about that moment and that time that I um. I think what happened when I finally came out of the fog is that I realized that there was more to live for, and I don't know if that's answering your question, dude, I really don't. I don't know.
Speaker 2:You're doing great. Just keep going. You're doing great.
Speaker 1:So this is the thing for me. This is the thing for me. I don't spend a lot of time analyzing why and I notice that about myself even in these questions. When I apply for these applicants would apply in writing for writing rooms or to get into these mentorships or to do these things Um, I the. The questions always come up like what is your, your process, your process? I don't know. I wake up, you know I have a tea, I doom scroll, I play Candy Crush, and then at 10 o'clock I sit down at my computer and I write for six hours and then I make dinner and then I go to bed, and so I don't spend a lot of time of asking why, because why for me has never been important. For me, it's always been the fact that it is.
Speaker 3:That's beautiful, and it strikes me that sometimes you're asked why in those applications? Because they want to know, they're trying to figure it out too.
Speaker 1:They're trying to figure it out too they're trying to figure it out, hell yes and so I like, I appreciate the the question, but I mean the fact that I was thinking about why am I like? I don't ask a question like why are these people attracted to me? To figure it out. For me it's, it's, it's, it's a gratitude piece, it's that humility piece that when you speak about being humble, you're not humble, you're talking about it but you're not really humble. But that's when the true humility of me comes out, is when I'm sitting there in my walks in the neighborhood or whatever, and I'm going why, why are these people so interested in my life? Or why do these people want to give so freely of themselves to me and my work? So it is a great question. I just don't know that I have the answer, and maybe, if we meet up in the next six months, I'll be able to, you know, give you a little more than what I have, because it ain't coming.
Speaker 3:Well, that's OK.
Speaker 3:Shared a great deal that a lot of people will be able to relate to. When it comes to looking at the incredible successes that you have, in some cases, stumbled into the bright lights, the large and small you know, just having that assurance that you you had a talent when you were a child that someone had, they appreciated it enough to turn you onto it and to help you to grow and nurture that talent. And then you contrast that with all of the things that you have had to endure, that others have as well. But we don't take a chance to look at the totality of all of the things that we carry the abuse from the time that you were a small child, having to grieve the loss of someone that you had loved for so long and had been such a part of your life, and having to figure out how to find your way on the street, and you know, as you shared, what it was to leave home at 15, I was thinking about some similarities in my own story and the pandemic we all went through that.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And I say that there's a lens that we can look at some of these things, some of these great losses, through, where, if we're lucky, we get a chance to earn those scars, because it means that we've lived long enough to have experienced what it is to love and to have that loss.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I mean as you're speaking. As you're speaking, I, as a child, I was given up by my white mother, who was estranged from just it was an underage white mother in the middle of Alberta in 1968. I was given up by her, so I was abandoned by her. Father wasn't in the picture. Then I was adopted into this white family who my parents, as well-intentioned as they thought they were, were used their white supremacy within the family to keep the three brown kids that they adopted or fostered as the target and the problem and if it wasn't for you and then use their you use their white privilege to sort of put a mask of a veil of perfection around us so nobody would ever ask any questions At that time in my life. Um, when I was, I remember one day I was sitting in the backseat of the car and I don't know how old. I was very young and I had just been beaten up by my dad and I at that stage, when I was young, like I was four or five, five or six something I said to my mom, who was in the passenger seat. I said Ivor, my best friend at the time, his parents don't hit him. And it wasn't the response that mattered, what my mom said.
Speaker 1:But even at that age, I think all my life I have been striving. I know what I bring to the table and value. I know, as a black person, I am no different than anybody else. I do not think differently, I do not smell differently, I do not act differently. As a gay person, the same thing, I love the same, I bleed the same, I yearn for the same things, um, and I always knew that I was just as human and everybody else.
Speaker 1:And I think my creation, creative process has been about putting that somehow, um, putting that humanity, that somehow, putting that humanity, my humanity, out on the page, because if it's written down, if it's seen on film, somehow that proves in a way that I am real.
Speaker 1:And I think the lesson that I learned this year, this year, is like I don't have to prove anything to anybody anymore. I've lived through so much and I've survived so much and I've thrived through so much and I've taken advantage and been given these opportunities that are, yes, luck. But what is luck? It's when, uh, when, or what is you know? It's like when, preparation, and you know when you're prepared for something and opportunity me, like that's what luck is. I've been prepared and I've been given the opportunity and I worked really hard and I think for me the whole idea of creation has been about figuring out my own humanity, and getting up in the morning has been about me proving to the world in some way or shape or fashion that I exist and I deserve to exist and I'm just the same. Maybe that's a little bit closer to what my driving force is.
Speaker 2:Barron, you just answered the question Well there.
Speaker 1:Thank you, my God, it took me just answered the question.
Speaker 2:It's like, and I'm going to paraphrase just quite frankly, you, just you, are real, that's it. You show up in every situation as just real and you believe in yourself. You believe that you're equal to everybody else.
Speaker 1:Yes, I have, and I, I, I do and and I am. I for a kid that was always told I was a liar. I was the most honest kid in this in the house and that and I, I have spent my life being a lightning rod. I have been, and I was so exhausted from it for so long. I'm tired of people either love me or they hate me, but what you will always get from me is authenticity, because when I got sober being an addict and being a liar and scamming and stealing I knew the one thing the only way that I was going to stay sober was if I was as honest as I could possibly be within every moment.
Speaker 1:And the one thing that sobriety has given me and that I'm so grateful for is I can walk into any room right now, any room, and own my space. As a child, I could never. As a child, I would, but then it would be dimmed by somebody else, and so that is one of my superpowers I can sit down with you and be myself and be angry at whoever is knocking on my door and won't leave me alone To being joyful, to being sad. Don't ask me how I am if you, you want. Don't ask me what, how I am, if you don't want to know.
Speaker 2:You, you are describing a extreme sense of self-acceptance. Yeah, and when I know for a fact that when we can truly accept and embrace ourselves for everything that we are the good, the bad and the ugly then it opens up a whole universe of acceptance from those around us.
Speaker 1:I've experienced that in my own life.
Speaker 2:I want to call out and acknowledge you. You have been through an immense amount of really, really hard shit and in spite of all that, you are not just still standing, you're thriving. You, you, god. The amount of resilience that you are demonstrating, just just pure resilience. Yeah, I'm stubborn as fuck. You just keep getting up, doesn't matter what knocks you? Down. You just keep getting up and I have to believe. You can correct me if I'm wrong.
Speaker 1:I'm speculating here that this is the power of creativity oh, my god, it's like I have a story to tell. I mean, there's so many. I remember being in, in, in acting school and the, the, the, the teachers would the, the instructors or professors would say you know, go out and live a life, go get dumped, go get a venereal disease, go. You know, go out and live a life, go get dumped, go get a venereal disease, go. You know, lose somebody. You know, go, do, live life. Because that life is going, that your life, that those experiences are going to feed your characters, they're going to feed your work, they're going to give you something of depth to tap into.
Speaker 1:And by the time, I was hearing that I'd already just survived the freaking AIDS pandemic, right Like we'd gone to war. We were at war with governments and systems and homophobic, bigoted people and homophobic bigoted people. So I was like, oh, like that is. I think that that is also the thing is that attracts people to me is is like when I was doing my show nigger fag, you know, I had students that would come up to. I still, I still get texts. I get Instagram messages. I got an Instagram message not too long ago from this person who said to me because my nigger fag is about um, my experiences growing up uh, black, gay, um bullied um and struggling as a kid and it was a kid's show that I performed for five years, took it to Scotland. It changed my life In Edmonton during the pandemic I was thinking, god, I wonder if it really did touch anybody's heart, right, you never know when you put something out there and, sure enough, almost like you know an answer from above, I get an Instagram message that said you don't know me, but my name is and I was in grade nine when you came to my school and I was coming out of the closet and and I hated myself and I was terrified.
Speaker 1:And then I saw you perform and then I saw how Nelly you were and I thought, well, if you can be this Nelly, then I could be this Nelly. And right after your play I came out of the closet and I started a gay straight alliance in my school and now I'm a DJ and I thank you for what you've done. And really, for me, it's about vulnerability. Vulnerability attracts not victimhood, but vulnerable vulnerability, being completely honest, where I'm at in every moment of every day is is my currency and it's also it's a blessing there's the answer to the question as well Bingo.
Speaker 2:That's what has attracted all those mentors. That's what has attracted everything. Vulnerability is a polarizer.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:People either scream and run in the opposite direction. When we get really, really real, they scream and run because it terrifies them, yeah, or they want to come and sit right next to us and there's not a lot of in between. It's a very polarized vulnerability. It really is kind of extreme, yeah, and it's very powerful. I believe, personally, that it sends all of the people away that I wouldn't want to be with anyway, yeah, and it attracts the people that I most would want to be close to. It's magical.
Speaker 1:It is, it is and it you know it can. It can sometimes make me feel like douching with acid afterwards, you know, after I open my spirit up and kind of blah it out in my art, in my work. I mean, right now I'm writing my feature film is called the Last Night of Hockey in Canada and it's about it's autobiographical and it's about one night during the in the 90s when the Rangers were playing the Vancouver Canucks and I was summoned to the bedside of a friend and it's really all about my behavior during that really difficult time. And when I first wrote the short story that was published during COVID on it I was running to the bathroom dry, heaving, because I'd talked about this story before but I'd never gone into the story and written it. From that perspective and the amount of shame and remorse and guilt I felt about my behavior at that time was just so deep and heavy.
Speaker 1:And I think that is when you are an artist and it doesn't matter how you do, what art you do, what your discipline is, when you put what art you do, what your discipline is, when you put people respond to that vulnerability within the work. And I'm I'm learning that right now, like people are reading this, this piece, and going, oh my God, this is like crazy, but there, there's and it. What it does is it also encourages other people to be as brave with their things. It's pretty magical.
Speaker 2:Erin, did that allow you to let go of all that shame?
Speaker 1:It has, it has. I mean, I don't know if it's just because I've been looking at the script for so long now. I think when I first picked it up at the beginning of the year, I was feeling that shame again and that heaviness of oh God, oh my God. I don't know if I have the armor to go back into this, because I wrote it in during COVID and then didn't go back for a couple of years. But yeah, it is what it is. It's my story and it is what's made me who I am. It's a part of it, right?
Speaker 2:I think the vomiting that you described, running to the bathroom, was symbolic of letting go.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it was coming out of you, Literally. I think it's a a touch point back to what you said before about how art has saved you. This project has helped you to fully metabolize.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like there's another story. There's something else that I'll talk to you about, cause we're close friends now. Yeah, and like there's another story, there's something else that I'll talk to you about, because we're close friends now. What this process with this piece has done for me and opening me up has allowed other things to drop. And we were talking earlier about the thing of inspiration, the thought of the download of something else that drops into your head. And I think, because I was so open this summer, because I was so vulnerable on the page with my work, with, you know, my mentor reading it, but nobody else, but I knew that I was like my heart was.
Speaker 1:I was really going there with, with, with the work that I've been writing. I was walking I go for a walk in high park, which is a couple blocks away, every cause I'm, you know I got a spare tire around my waist and I got to walk and I was listening to, I know, a murder podcast, because that's just so relaxing. And a download came in and the download was and it was a voice that was louder than the sound in my ears, just booming, all-encompassing, but not a screaming voice, it was just a sensible voice that said just face it, you were raped. And I stopped on the path and I looked down at my feet and I stopped on the path and I looked down at my feet and I just went yeah, you were. And this happened right after I got sober and I blame myself for it and how this ties into the work. It's, I think I was because I was.
Speaker 1:I kind of split my innards open to get this, this AIDS hockey story out, and was living in that. It allowed other things to start to, realizations and thoughts and things that I still need to look at and still need to work on. Art is amazing that way. If I allow, if I don't fight or if I, the resistance is always going to be there when I work. But if I fight through the resistance and I just do the work, but if I fight through the resistance and I just do the work, the world opens up. And I think that that's, you know, after the suicide, I mean after the suicide and then this. It's just, it's not weird, it's not a coincidence to me that that thought of the rape came, came sort of dropping in at this time when I could actually face it.
Speaker 2:And my art my sorry.
Speaker 1:My art is the thing that opened it up.
Speaker 2:Timing is everything, and I mean it came about at a time when you were ready and able to actually look at it. We've kind of gone into a little bit of overtime. I want to cover one more topic and we'll have to kind of make it a little bit brief. How has community played a role in all your creative life?
Speaker 1:creative life, oh all everything, inspiration, um, courage, um. The gay community, the drag queens. I wouldn't have survived without them, without their guidance and their, their parentage and their. You know the, the, the, the writing community here in Toronto, like I've I moved here to be a part of this. Things like, none of it would be happening for me, like the AIDS community, right, like, made me feel not alone anymore. The recovery community is the same thing. I'm not alone when I'm a part of community. When I put my art into community, the community holds me back, right, it's, it's a. It's a. It's a copacetic supportive relationship. So I, community is everything I can't make. I can't make art in a vacuum. I can't do it alone, I have to people.
Speaker 2:I love how you're wording all that and the fact that you've so clearly demonstrated that sometimes, when we think about community, it's just a single community, but it's not. It's a variety of communities, and sometimes a community can just be you and one other person, yeah, or you and three other people, and then sometimes it can be something with hundreds or thousands of people.
Speaker 1:Yeah, isolation is a killer. As an alcoholic, isolation for me is a killer. I learned it last year. It's a killer, and there's nothing like walking into a room full of other alcoholics to go. Oh my God, I'm not the worst person in the room, because she's far worse than I am, you know. I'm not the best person in the room because he has nicer shoes than I do. Right, like it keeps you right. Community keeps me right-sized. Community keeps me engaged, right-sized and feeling like I have a place and that's my job. I can't. None of the things that have happened for me since I moved to Toronto the only reason why they've happened is because I took the step to go out to these things to make myself seen and heard, and when I wasn't doing that, I found disillusionment, I found victimhood and I found isolation and loneliness.
Speaker 2:Man, you could not have summed it up better or more clearly. I mean, this is the theme of everything we're about at the the Love of Creatives and you just wow is all I got to say Summed it up in the most eloquent way. Okay, it's time. Thank you, that was amazing. It's time to move into rapid fire questions.
Speaker 1:Oh no, I hate these Okay.
Speaker 2:You'll do great and sometimes they're kind of random, but since I know you, these, okay, you'll. You'll do great. And you know, sometimes they're kind of random, but since I know you, these are specific. I hold these just for you. Question number one if you could have a redo on one part of your life, what would it be?
Speaker 1:My connection to my birth family Got it.
Speaker 2:Number two if given the choice to live your creative life in solitude or in a creative community, which would you choose and why? And I think you may have already just really, really gone over that unless you have something else to say? It's pretty much covered. Yeah, community Number three. On over that one. Unless you have something else to say, it's pretty much covered.
Speaker 1:Yeah, number three, when you're extremely old and about to take your last breath what will have been the most important part of your life my, my art, my work. If you want to get to know me, you watch a movie I've made or see something I've acted in and read a short story. You know, you know who I am.
Speaker 2:I haven't seen them recently, but there was a period of time when your posts on Facebook popped right up onto my feed. They haven't right, Lisa. Posts on Facebook popped right up onto my feed. They haven't right, Liza. You're not posting or the algorithm has changed, but you would be standing in the doorway with some fabulous outfit on, always in great shoes. So the dude at the meeting could not have had better shoes than you, because I'm a shoe-like-ah, so I know the shoes yeah. You got it going on. I got to say that.
Speaker 1:Thank you, you have the fashion thing going on. It must be the algorithm, because I am still whenever I go out. I don't know. It's just, they say that you're supposed to do something on Instagram, so I'm like, okay, I'll just throw something together and go to a party.
Speaker 2:I'm curious how many followers do you have on instagram?
Speaker 1:oh, not very many, like 1700, I think.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's, that's a few, I mean, it's not like millions, but that's yeah, you know I'd give anything if we had 1700 on ours, but ours is pretty new I have a girlfriend on drag race.
Speaker 1:I have a girlfriend in drag race that went from, I think, before she. It came out in canada, canada's drag race. She was at like 19, now she's at like almost 30 000 people oh my goodness, we just got you. We just got to shave you both up. We got to put on an eyelash, a little red lip, slap on some heels and get you on drag race, and that'll you know. I think we could probably both pull that off if we really tried, we got to get into drag.
Speaker 2:Baron, this has been absolutely amazing. I, I mean, I knew some of your story, but wow, and and and I just want to honor your vulnerability because you got it down. It's a superpower for you, isn't it? Thank you, yeah, it's a superpower for me as well, and there was a part there in a few minutes ago where I really I thought I was going to ball right in the middle of your story. It touched me so deeply.
Speaker 1:Thank you, thanks for listening. I appreciate both of you. It's nice to meet you.
Speaker 2:I can't wait to make this public publish it, because I just think it's like wow, wow, wow.
Speaker 3:Before we wrap is there anything, baron, that you would like to leave our listeners with?
Speaker 2:Words of wisdom.
Speaker 1:Just say yes, say yes, yes, say yes to it and allow the ideas to come in and allow the downloads to happen, and as best as you can, because you always have the option of saying no after you say yes. So just say yes beautiful.
Speaker 2:I agree, wholeheartedly love it.