For the Love of Creatives
Unlocking the Power of Community:
Imagine a space where your creative spark is truly seen—a community where people get you. That’s what Maddox and Dwight bring each week on For the Love of Creatives Podcast. As your hosts and “connections and community guys,” they bridge the gap between solo journeys and powerful collaborations, transforming “me” into “we.” This podcast is where heart-centered creatives come to unlock the power of community and thrive.
In each episode, Maddox and Dwight share insightful dialogues and host engaging interviews with fellow artists, innovators, and everyday creatives who’ve faced challenges, found inspiration, and reached new heights. Whether through storytelling, LIVE coaching, or exploring what it means to create, collaborate, and co-elevate, you’ll discover how to fuel your own creative journey and find the support to bring your best ideas to life.
Expect practical insights, fresh inspiration, and real stories from the world of art, design, dance, culinary arts, and beyond. If you’re a creative looking for support, clarity, and a sense of belonging, this podcast is your place to connect, grow, and be celebrated.
Join us each week as we celebrate the magic of community-driven creativity, and don’t miss out on the chance to join our For the Love of Creatives Community! Tune in, subscribe, and start your journey from “me” to “we” today!
For the Love of Creatives
#040: Elisha Oliver is Breaking Free From Generational Patterns: How Art Creates Possibility
Elisha Oliver's path from classroom teacher to Executive Director of Texas Folklife offers a masterclass in following creative curiosity. When standardized testing drained her passion for education after nearly twenty years, Elisha found herself at a crossroads that many creatives face: continue the safe, practical path or risk exploring long-buried interests?
What followed was a "happy accident" – discovering anthropology as the perfect discipline to embrace her love of cultures, communities, and artistic expression. Now leading Texas Folklife, Elisha works to make folk arts accessible across the state while confronting the same questions that haunted her mother and grandmother, both artistic women who "put their creativity in a box" to fulfill family responsibilities.
The conversation explores this intergenerational pattern of suppressing artistic expression for practical concerns – a pattern Elisha found herself unconsciously perpetuating with her own daughter despite wanting her happiness. This revelation during our discussion created a powerful moment of awareness about how we inherit and transmit limiting beliefs about creativity versus practicality.
Most compelling is Elisha's evolution toward authentic living. Rather than contorting herself to fit others' expectations, she's embraced what she calls her "and era" – a life where multiple passions coexist and where relationships take precedence over achievements. Her newfound comfort with authenticity as a "polarizer" that naturally attracts compatible people while creating distance from others represents profound personal growth.
As Elisha puts it, her biggest creative challenge is time – finding space in her schedule to nurture her soul through pottery, photography, writing, and music. When she makes that time, she becomes "a much better person for everyone else." Her story reminds us that creative expression isn't a luxury but essential nourishment that makes us more fully human. What creative curiosity are you neglecting that might transform your life if given the chance to bloom?
Elisha's Profile
Texas Folklife
This is Maddox & Dwight! More than anything, we want to connect and communicate with you. We don't want to think of you as listeners. We want to think of you as community. So, scroll to the bottom of the show notes and click the SUBSCRIBE link. Thank you!
Thank you for listening to the For the Love of Creatives Podcast. If you are enjoying the podcast, please scroll to the bottom of the show notes and Rate & Review us. We would SO appreciate it.
Become a SUBSCRIBER to Get Notified of New Episodes
Want to be a Featured Guest?
For the Love of Creatives Community
I'm not sure where it's going to take him. That's one of the things that, you know, I get asked. They're like well, have you all faced budget cuts? Well, yes, we have, but what does this look like? You know, I don't know. I'm still dreaming that big dream. I'm not only for myself, but you know, for the't know, I'm still dreaming that big dream. I'm not only for myself, but, you know, for the communities that we work in, and I'm trying to make sure that art is accessible for everyone.
Speaker 2:Hello. Yes, you guessed it, it's Maddox and Dwight. We're the Connections in Community, guys, and we're here to bring you another absolutely fabulous episode of. For the Love of Creatives, our guest today is Alicia Oliver. Welcome, alicia.
Speaker 1:Thank you. Thank you, dwight Maddox, and just everyone. Thank you for inviting me. I was really looking forward to being able to sit with you all and just have a conversation, and you know I've always enjoyed just being able to talk to people. I'm a people person, so thank you, thank you. Thank you for having people. I'm a people person, so thank you, thank you. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:A little bit about me I am the executive director at Texas Folklife. I've been with them for about three years. We are a folk arts nonprofit for the state of Texas. I am in the DFW area. I have team members that are scattered throughout the state and you know we are. Our mission is to really celebrate and amplify the voices of folk arts and folk leaders and traditional artists throughout the state and making sure that they have that platform. And so that's a little bit about me. By training, I am a biocultural anthropologist and so I know people are like well, how does that intersection happen, anthropology and art and make that make sense? And so I know we'll probably talk a little bit about that journey as well.
Speaker 2:Well, and it was a fellow anthropologist that introduced you to us. Former featured guest Jane Baldwin was having you at the Leadership Arts Institute reception. Yes, I have to say that slowly because it doesn't roll off my tongue easy yet, but yes, that was delightful. We absolutely love Jane. She's a really neat person.
Speaker 1:Yeah, she is. I'm so happy that she made that introduction. She and I were members of the same cohort. For you know, again, I'm always thinking of is it BCA, is it LAI, but it's the Leadership Arts. You know, that institute that we participated in and I'm always surprised when I, you know, meet a fellow anthropologist and Jane is an archaeologist but we're under that same umbrella, and when we were having the conversation and she's like you know, I'm an archaeologist but we're under that same umbrella, and when we were having the conversation and she's like you know, I'm an archaeologist, I'm like no way, because for me it's usually rare and we just hit it off. So to see her in her role as an archaeologist, and then, you know, in this creative space, I'm like, oh, I'm not the only one that's out here, and so that was really pleasing. But when she introduced us, I was just like I felt that chemistry there, that connection, and I was like this is going to be great, you know, to be able to just be in fellowship with two like-minded folks.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we definitely felt it as well as soon as she introduced us, and that's the way so many of our people come to us is we either get introduced or we're people people also so we're out and about all the time meeting mostly creatives. We do a lot of stuff that has to do with art and other forms of creativity. So well, let's jump in and find out a little bit more of your story, since you kind of started there. Why don't you tell us how anthropology fit into that whole creative scene for you?
Speaker 1:You know, anthropology, I say, was a happy accident for me. I had been a veteran educator in the public school system for almost 20 years and I just felt myself like being very dissatisfied with teaching kids to pass a standardized test. You know it's like is that? You know it's different from when I was in school and I'm not going to sit here and age myself, but I probably did just now, but it was. I was like they're not, it's not true learning, because it's all about getting them to pass this state mandated exam. And love teaching, love being in the classroom. But you know, there was at a time where I was about to be an empty nester as well and I was like what am I going to do with? What am I going to do? You know, I love being in the classroom. I love my kiddos, not really happy with the state mandated test, my daughter's about to graduate, so what am I going to do with my time? And I started taking just random classes, everything from a return to art history, which I've always loved, and stumbled upon anthropology, stumbled upon anthropology, and I had a professor and I was like well, you know, I think I want to travel and I want to go to all these museums. I want to do this and that. And he was like, well, you want to do a lot, you know. He's like, well, have you looked at anthropology? And I was like, no, because at the time, you know, I knew archaeology and I knew how that fit into the scope of things. But I was like, well, what would I do with anthropology? And so I took sort of taking classes at UNT and fell in love with it and I'm like, oh, this is everything that I have ever been interested in. It has to do with different cultures and communities and just their whole life ways and the art and the food and the music. And I was like this is great. And continued on with those classes and got a second bachelor's degree in anthropology.
Speaker 1:And then my daughter was getting ready to graduate and it was like, well, now what? And I would still. That thought is what am I going to do? Am I going to travel? Am I going to see if I'm going to do any kind of museum work? What does this look like? Am I going to go to graduate school?
Speaker 1:And I had family in Oklahoma. I tell people I am a Texas girl with Oklahoma roots, deep Oklahoma roots and I was like, well, maybe I'll go to graduate school and applied. And it was very different from my experience at UNT, polar opposites. So I went in and at UNT everybody was like, oh, we're one big family, it's you know, and it was great. My experience was great and got to OU and it was a very different experience and I didn't feel I didn't have that kind of we're all family, we're all creative folks. It was it's theory, theory, theory.
Speaker 1:But I knew that I had loved, I just had fallen in love with anthropology and started looking at different ways. I wanted to, you know, bring that into something new. Still wasn't sure what I was going to do. The thought in the back of my mind is well, I will be able to, you know, teach in a university setting and sit around and read books all day, and that was not the case. But that's what I have. It's like this is going to be great. I'm just going to read, read, read. I'll teach what I want, we'll talk about my favorite artwork, I'll be able to infuse it.
Speaker 1:But that was not the case. But she was involved in research and working with other communities and still being able to teach and still infuse those things that I like. So people were like oh, you should teach anthropology, and I'm like I did, but my favorite courses to teach were humanities. I mean, I love teaching the humanities because I could talk about, you know, kara Walker or Kara Vaggio or any of my favorite artists, and then I would always have them do a portfolio of some sort that included art pieces. And so you know, I was like well, this is great, I'm still doing some anthropology, but I'm doing it in my way.
Speaker 3:That's beautiful, that you could carve your path that way, and it sounds like you rolled with the punches, because what I was hearing was how you just had life happening and you were ready to pivot. You were ready to meet the challenges head on and you squeezed some lemonade out of some lemons.
Speaker 1:Yes, absolutely. I was ready to pivot and you know, I think about my mom, always says she's like, well, you get bored easily. And I'm like no, I don't, I just have a lot of interest. And she's like, no, I think you get bored easily. She said you were this way as a child and you know, I think about that now, as someone who is very senior in age, I'm thinking do I get bored easily or do I just have so many interests and I think that there's so much to do. You know there. And she was like no, you are bored. And I was telling her that I bought a bass guitar.
Speaker 1:Don't know the first thing about playing the bass guitar, but I have always wanted to play string instruments. My parents had another idea for me growing up. They wanted me to be a flautist. So they bought me a flute and had me practice and practice and practice and I was like I want to play the guitar. I was like I want to play the guitar. And so, you know, as someone who was exploring all of my interests, I started to find I have a cello that I've named and an acoustic guitar and most recently, that bass guitar.
Speaker 1:And I was telling my mom.
Speaker 1:She says I told you you get bored. And I'm like, no, I just have so many interests. But I tell her, I'm like I can look at you and she is very arts driven. I think she would have been an artist if she did not have to be a homemaker, because she is very artistic Her mother, my grandmother, very artistic and I think she would have been an artist. And I'm like we have this kind of same thread that runs through the women Her mother, my grandmother, very artistic and I think she would have been an artist. And I'm like we have this kind of same thread that runs, you know, through the women in our family. Because we've had to be, you know, providers for children, we kind of let that art piece go.
Speaker 1:But for me it's just like well, I'm going to figure out a way to bring it into everything I do. And you know, thinking about that, in those initial classes that I was taking, those art history classes where you know we were given projects to do and I would do a collage, and you know I would be able to go out because I do photography and just shoot things that were interesting to me. It was, it just all made sense and I was able to take that and to put it into that anthropology as well. So I told my mom I'm like well that that piece is there. You all have had interest, but it's that you all, you know, put that in a box and kind of just left it because you, you know, needed to take care of the family. But for me, I've always been, I'm going to push the box, I'm going to push the envelope, you know. I'm just going to see what I can do to make sure that I can make everything fit together.
Speaker 2:I don't sense an energy of boredom at all. I think I'm really resonating with you because I have a great, a lot of interests. I mean, there's just so many things that I would love to experience and explore and there's just not enough energy or hours or you know enough of me to go around. So I do what I can do, but I've been that way most of my life and I've experienced boredom.
Speaker 1:it's a completely different energy now, and you know, when you say that I was just like because I do, I would ask myself am I just bored? Um, and I would. I kind of have a running joke with my friends. I'm like, well, if I'm bored, then I know I'm going to get into trouble. And they're like well, what are you talking about? I'm just like, well, let's not have me get just been so much that I've been interested in that either.
Speaker 1:You know, I wasn't allowed to pursue something, you know, like art history. I love art history, I mean love it. But I would hear how are you going to sustain yourself? You know, how are you going to take care of your children? And that's one of the reasons why I got into education is because you know I had two kids, that I needed to have a schedule that aligned with their school schedule, you know.
Speaker 1:And so maybe for me, now that we're having this conversation, because I hadn't thought about it that way, maybe there was a time when I was like, maybe my mom and my grandmother, I did put that in a box, maybe my mom and my grandmother where I did put that in a box and then, as my daughter was getting ready to graduate, I was able to open the lid of that box and I hadn't thought about that until just now that maybe there was that time for me, like them, where I just put all of those interests and things I wanted to pursue in a box and then, when I knew that I could do so, then I just jumped both feet in and just started exploring all those things that appealed to me. And I still do that, you know.
Speaker 3:It's almost inescapable. That's, that's what was modeled, what was imprinted, and I know that it's the struggle that a lot of the creatives that we talk to deal with, where they have people that love them, that try to steer them toward what they perceive as safe, and for someone who is truly creative, safe is potentially the worst thing that you can do for anything that really lights you up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I completely agree, dwight, and I'm thinking about that now and I'm just like whoa did I just have a light bulb moment where I'm just recognizing that, because you know that being in the classroom, being an educator, that was very safe. You know, that was consistent. I know that I'm going to get paid in the summer, I know that I'm going to be off when the kids are off and then making that pivot and really not knowing, okay, what is this going to lead? Where is this going to lead? You know there's this level of uncertainty that was there and still, I mean, even though I'm in this position at Texas Folklife, I still try to carve out time. Oh, I'm going to do this because I have more freedom now to do these things, but you know, there still is that there, just a little bit like that.
Speaker 1:I think if I wanted to go into art full time, could I sustain myself and what would that look like now? And would I be like a struggling artist? Or you know, and I've been told you're very idealistic and sometimes you're romanticized things and I don't think I do. I'm just thinking of casting this big vision, you know, and I'm like, well, I don't know, that would be something I have to think about. But my daughter, she was like well, why don't you stop doing everything Because you love what you do when it comes to art? And she said and just be an artist full time. And I tell him, like Danielle, you know it's not going to pay the bills right now, but it's one of those things that I do come back to. You know, whether it's writing or writing poetry, or you know, working on a collage, or just being able to go out and shoot on a regular basis. You know, and I'm shooting things that people probably say is that art, but it's art to me.
Speaker 3:Yeah, good for you.
Speaker 2:I love that. You know, one of the things that you're sharing, or what I'm hearing and I love this is we talk to a lot of people who they try to force things. You know, you said when it came time for your daughter to go off to school, you were like, wow, I'm going to be an empty nester. I wonder what this is going to look like. I wonder what I'm going to do.
Speaker 2:And instead of jumping in and just trying to force something to happen, I'm hearing that you just were in a state of being and you let the varying, different things present themselves to you and you picked the one that was the shiniest, the one that drew you in the most. And what a beautiful way to move through life. I'm like sitting here going oh, I'm having a Harry Met Sally moment where I want what she's having, because I'm not always that way, I'm not always just somebody that just says let's just see where this takes me, and I wish I were more like that. And I'm hearing that from you. And so I'm celebrating in this moment because I just love what you're sharing.
Speaker 1:Well, I appreciate that, even with my position at Texas Folk Life, I'm not sure where it's going to take, and that's one of the things that I get asked. They're like well, have you all faced budget cuts? Well, yes, we have. Well, what does this look like? You know, I don't know. I am still dreaming that big dream, not only for myself but for the communities that we work in, and I'm trying to make sure that art is accessible for everyone, because I know the impact that it not only that it's had on me personally. You know, I see the impact, and then you'll hear me reference my mom and grandmother a lot, but because they were true artists and I just know, I mean, I know that for my mom, that's what she would have done if she could have, you know, and she didn't have that opportunity. And so I'm thinking, you know, making it accessible for those folks who have always desired to do something creative. That's what drives me at Texas Faux Fiber, when I'm working in these rural communities, if it's an art desert, or if it's with a youth group who they've never heard of modeling clay, it's that when you see their face light up, when we're working with aging communities, and you see that something has sparked a memory with them, whether it's a musical selection or hearing a piece of poetry. For me, that, just that, just it drives me. Because I do think, I think back to my mom, who you know now she's she's up in age, but she'll tell me all the time she's like well, I got my new set of colors and she's making these designs and it's something that motivates her. And she was in my care for a while. She's with my sister now. And you know I asked her I'm like well, if you could just go back right now and take classes or continuing education, would you do that? And I could see her face light up and she was thinking about it. She's like oh, I think I'm too old or I'll be the oldest person in class and I don't want to do this. She's like I'm fine just doing this. But I know in that second she was considering it because she didn't have that opportunity. And you know I was like well, maybe we'll start slow.
Speaker 1:And we went to the library and this is rural Oklahoma. We went to the library and I have a picture and I can send it to you later that we were there and I was like well, let's just look at some art books. You know, because she had never been to a museum. You know, all her life was dedicated to my stepfather, who was a very controlling person, and you know so, and she had never had a library card. And here she is in her 70s and we're signing her up for a library card and that day was like she was probably 12 years old again, because she was just like look at all of these books about art. And she loves to cook. And she says look at all of these books, these cookbooks. And it was just so profound to me and to know that there are other folks out there who have those same kind of experiences, that's what drives me, is to know that if I can share that with other folks, just the joy that it would bring them in that moment.
Speaker 2:I listen to what you say, but I also have a tendency to listen for what you don't say, and I hear things that you don't say. I know that sounds weird. And I hear things that you don't say. I know that sounds weird, but I'm hearing you right now. What I'm hearing that you're not saying is that Grandma didn't have the opportunity to really be an artist and Mom didn't have the opportunity. And you have the opportunity.
Speaker 2:And you're correct, you're right, you're right, and I think about that you could see your mom's face light up when you ask her about that, if she could go back and redo it and her face lit up. Whole roadmap right there. You know, like in that moment what came to me was she's not saying it, but she's demonstrating in some way. Jump on it. Don't do what I did, you know, jump on it. Don't do what I did, you know, jump on it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's what I tell my kids, because if you don't?
Speaker 2:you'll always wonder.
Speaker 1:Yes, I wonder that, for both my grandmother and my mother, I think about that I was like if things would have been different because she was a young mom, she had me when she was 17, and this is, you know, at a time when that just was not popular and they were at a Catholic school and it was really not popular for her to have gotten pregnant and, you know, to have me, and I think all the time, you know what if circumstances would have been different for her, where she wouldn't have had to go into the workforce and provide, and then what if she didn't marry, you know, my stepfather, who was very, you know, controlling and she, you know, wouldn't have had to be the homemaker.
Speaker 1:What if her circumstances would have been different? And I think about that probably every day because, you know, I call and I check on her and she's with my sister now and I think what would her life have looked like? You know, and for me, her happiness is something that I'm always thinking about. But, maddox, you said something and you said, you know, thinking about that roadmap and like her kind of this implicitly or silently saying, just jump on it, don't do it. But that's the same thing I tell my daughter.
Speaker 1:This is another conversation that is really hitting home for me now that we're having this, because I found myself saying the same thing to my daughter that many people have said to me how are you going to take care of your family?
Speaker 1:And I'm sure that's the same thing that my mom heard. And talking to my daughter, who's very much a creative and plays all the instruments and she paints and she writes and she dances. But in my mind I'm always thinking is that going to be enough to sustain her? You know to like take care of her financially and what is that? You know, how is that going to shape? But then I'm also telling her I want you to be happy and what you do, and I celebrate all that she does, you know, when it comes to this artistic, creative side of who she is. But in the and there's that little piece of me that says I want you to be, you know, I want to make sure that all is well with you and that you are, you know, able to take care of yourself financially. But now that we're talking, and I'm seeing it, it's like there's like this continuum, this kind of this thread that has happened across generations, you know, and I don't think I really have thought about it until now now?
Speaker 2:Well, and something else that I see and this comes up in several of our conversations with our featured guests we, as human beings, have a tendency to go through life as if it's an either or, and it doesn't have to be an either, or. It can be an and and, when we're willing to look at the and it opens up possibilities for us that would have never been available to us in a world of either or. But even school teaches us either or. It's either the right answer or it's the wrong answer, and we go through life because of the testing you were talking about. It's all, there's one right answer, and it trains us to think that there's one right answer in everything and in life. That's just not true.
Speaker 1:There are multiple right answers in life, but we don't look at it that way because we've had a system that's indoctrinated us into one right answer.
Speaker 2:So true, we've had a couple of different people on the podcast that one said you know, I told myself when I started coming up through the ranks that I wasn't going to only have one passion, I was going to have two passions. He claimed that for himself. He has a corporate job where he's a tech person with Microsoft and he loves his job. On the other hand, he's an actor and now he's starting to produce and he loves that and he's finagled to get Microsoft to be flexible with his schedule so he can do all of the acting and the producing. And he said and I don't intend to give either one of them up, I love both of them so much that I'm going to do both of them. And I thought, wow, there's the. And.
Speaker 1:There's the and how have you either, dwight or Maddox, how have y'all navigated that either? Or Because once you're in that framework and I'm speaking for myself I think it's difficult to say hey, hey, hey, let's press pause and let's look at things differently, structure your time differently so you can do those things that bring you the most joy.
Speaker 3:Well, I'll say that I spent a lifetime inside the matrix and, in a lot of ways, I grew up in a household where we did all the things to try to play it safe, and I had to deal with knowing that I didn't quite fit the template. I was growing up as knowing that I was gay in a broken home where gay was not okay, but that prepared me for an enlistment during the height of the don't ask, don't tell era. So I was very well practiced and I had to conform with what was accepted or acceptable for where I was, and that groomed me for entering into corporate life where I had to wear a different hat at different times and I was never free to be exactly who I was. Every bit of messaging had to be through a specific lens because there was a lot of hedging. We could be truthful but we couldn't tell the absolute truth because that might bump up against things that maybe couldn't be revealed for regulatory reasons or for proprietary reasons, and so I am well-versed in what it is to cloak myself for others' comfort or because that's just simply the way it's done.
Speaker 3:And some life experiences have made it to where I had to deal with loss.
Speaker 3:I had to deal with being a caregiver during the pandemic and I was scarred in ways that I'm sure a lot of people had things that they went through.
Speaker 3:But I had to ask what was really important and I could appreciate that there were so many things that I had been told that I needed to pay attention to that I didn't.
Speaker 3:There were so many things that I was supposed to be led to believe were of the utmost importance that I knew were inconsequential, because I grew to appreciate that the real things that matter are our connections and our relationships and we need to take time to invest hard on those, really make it to where we elevate those things, because chasing whatever momentary rewards that might be weighed in front of us will leave us empty. That might be weighed in front of us will leave us empty and we will always regret not being present, not making the time to spend time with those who love us and to make those memories. And it makes it a lot easier for me to figure out what it is. I want to be moved by what it is that motivates me and it's really hard because I'm not as easily tricked. Someone can lay out a dollar figure and they're puzzled because they're not saying anything that speaks my language.
Speaker 2:Ooh, I got to say preach, brother, preach.
Speaker 1:No, I mean, that is so profound. And you know, when you said, you know having to fit into, I'm just going to say, a box or a frame to make others comfortable, I know that I've done that. I know that I do that in some of my relationships. Still, you know, my husband now we've been married and divorced to one another approximately four times to one another, but's it's, um, you know it has been me fitting myself into a box to make other people comfortable, um, and I know that I've done that in in my relationship. And you know, now we're at a point where we're we say we're so old now that it, you know, we're just going to be who we're going to be and just be the best versions of ourselves, not necessarily for one another, but for those adult kids that we have and the grandchildren. And we've come to this place where we can be who we're going to be, completely opposite, completely different people. But we're not trying to force that. And I can look back and I was like, well, that's why I didn't work this time, or that's why I didn't work that time. It's me feeling like I'm shrinking myself to fit into this spot, that I don't belong, and it creates this frustration and him feeling like he's shrinking himself to be in this spot that he didn't ask to be in and it creates this frustration. And so, you know, we never got it right up until now and just completely okay with being who we are.
Speaker 1:I feel so privileged, blessed, to be in a position where, at Texas Swept by 4, I don't have to shrink to do that and I can truly be my authentic self, no matter what that looks like, you know, or how that comes across in Texas or Oklahoma. It's just who I am and I'm comfortable with that. That's one thing I can say. The only thing that my mother and my grandmother ever said is that everybody's not going to view you the same and just to be aware of that. You know come from a mixed, multi-ethnic household and they were like people are not going to know how to take you, and just be aware of that. But they never tried to change um, who I was or you know, just as this kind of wild kid that you know would just be running barefoot down the street or whatever I want. They never changed, they never wanted to change that. They didn't want me to be aware of the perception of others and how that could impact me.
Speaker 2:They gave you quite a gift. That's a big gift. You asked a minute ago about how we had navigated the either or or the, and I don't think I've only had language for that in the last few years, but I can look back and see that much of my adult life was an and instead of either or. I was a hairdresser, makeup artist for 40 years and I always had projects on the side. I studied photography and shot professionally. At one point, I planned weddings professionally. I got specialized training in hypnosis and did hypnosis for a period of time, and I've studied and done coaching on and off for the last almost 20 years. It's never really been an either, or it's been an and for me, and I don't know exactly how I did that. To be real honest, it wasn't a conscious, intentional decision, it was just kind of the way it unfolded. And now I can look back and see, with those clear eyes and a language to be able to describe it, that I was choosing the, and I can clearly see it.
Speaker 1:You know, I see that from my very first conversation that is, the thing that resonated with me is that you all were doing your and and I left that initial meeting. It's the first time meeting you all and I thought I want to make sure that I can. I didn't have the language for it until you're saying the and now I want to make, I want to be able to do that. I want to just, you know, be able to do that, and I know that I'm doing that to some degree, but I want to do that fully. And, Dwight, it's something that you were that you mentioned about the relationships. And after that, after that evening, like I have friends that I know that they're always going to be my friends, no matter what I mean through thick and thin, and we may go years without speaking and I will say, oh, I'm so busy, I'm so busy. But I left that night and I reached out to two of my closest friends that have been with me through you name it and I'm just like, hey, I'm just reaching out to see how you're doing, Because I wanted to rekindle those relationships and I started thinking about all of the beautiful relationships that I could have had along the years, but I put them aside for, whether it was, you know, that relationship didn't fit this time period or what have you.
Speaker 1:And I didn't have the language for it, I didn't know what I was doing, but I just knew that, hey, I want to interact with different folks. I want to. You know, if a relationship, if something is presented to me where I can be my authentic self and that individual or those individuals are their authentic self, then I want that, I want to have those conversations, I want to do dinners, and I have not done that before. And I called my friend and she was like are you okay? I'm like, yeah, I'm fine. She was like, because this is not what you normally do. I may hear from you during the holidays, but she's like this is just out of the blue. And I said I want to. We've been friends but I want to deepen that connection. You know, I want to be present.
Speaker 2:And now I feel like I'm in my and era where I'm like yes, I'm going to do this, and I'm going to do this and I'm going to go to lunch with this person and we're going to have breakfast, and we're just, you know, and I feel like I'm in my and era.
Speaker 1:It's a different animal, isn't?
Speaker 2:it? Mm-hmm, I want to. May I have permission to let you in on a little secret? Yes, you said a minute ago that you wanted to make room for those places where you could fully be authentic, and the secret is you don't look for them, you don't find them. The secret is that you create them.
Speaker 2:And the way you do that is you just show up everywhere you go authentic. And I mean this really has become my superpower, because I realized that when I show up everywhere, I go fully authentic. It is a polarizer and it is in a polarizer in the most beautiful way. You know, you think about a polarizer as being good or bad or in or out Polarizer. Is that extreme? And yes it is. But there's something magical about authenticity. Polarizers of all different other kinds may not be this way, but with authenticity, when you show up truly authentic, it will draw a very specific type of person to you and they will be authentic and they will be your people and they will be your people. And then it's going to be on the other end of that continuum, that polarization is going to be the people that your authenticity makes them very uncomfortable because they're not authentic, and it will send them away. It will literally push them away, which is a beautiful thing because they're not your people. If they were, they wouldn't be going away.
Speaker 1:That's that. That's very profound. And I think for me, you know, I've always had like, when people would go away, I was like, well, what did I do? You know, maybe I was too much of this or I was too over the top here, or what did you know, what did I do? And I always, you know, would say well, I know that I think I have a problem with loss, but it's what you said. And I have started to walk in this, like if they're not with me, if they don't embrace who I am, then they're not for me. That's like you said they're not my people.
Speaker 2:They're not my people and I don't even give it a second thought. I let them go. But what I have done is I've gotten to where, when somebody walks away, I'm like Because in that moment they made more space for the person that is my people, that wants to come and sit right next to me. You know, we only have so much time and space in our lives and if we're spending it with people that aren't really our people and we're shoving ourselves like a square peg into a round hole to try to make it all work, there's no room for our true people to be there, because we're with misfit people. That's true. It's like once you see it, you can't unsee it. You know, once you see the beauty of how it really works, you know, when somebody doesn't call back or they don't respond, I go not my people next, thank you, because in that moment now I'm going to, I make it a point to focus on the people who are my people, who do want to come and sit right next to me.
Speaker 3:And.
Speaker 2:I don't give any energy or oxygen to those that drift away or don't show up, or nothing wrong with them, they're just not my people.
Speaker 1:And I like that. You know, I like that because I think it's taken me a while to get to that, because, like I said, I'm just like well, did I say something? Did I do something? You know, was I dressed a certain way? But no, and it's. I'm just like they were in my spheres for a season. I'm sure that they've taught me some type of lesson along the way, but they're not my people, they're not who. You know. If I needed to pick up the phone and just say, hey, can we just have a chat or can we just go to lunch? And there's no agenda, there's no you know purpose, it's just I want to share time with you, I want to be with you, you know, and it's taken me a while to embrace that, to say it's okay for me to want just no agenda, no topic, just hey, I just want to spend time with you, that's it.
Speaker 2:You know, I haven't gotten to the end of my life yet, so I don't know exactly what it's going to be like, but I've thought about it a lot, and when I'm on that deathbed, where I'm minutes away from my final breath, I don't think I'm going to be thinking about my achievements. I'm going to be thinking about my achievements. I think that I'm going to be 100% focused on the people who love me and who I have loved. The older I get, the more and I say this all the time people are our greatest resource. Aside from food, water and oxygen, people are our greatest resource, but we do not treat them like they're our greatest resource, If anything, you may have the energy to contain one question, and that is did it matter?
Speaker 3:Did you live your best life? Did you laugh? Did you love?
Speaker 1:Did you contribute, and that's. You know, I think about that as I watched. You know, friends go through a variety of things lost friends to, you know, to AIDS and in the pandemic and just a host of things. And using that word polarization I thought, when it is my time to transition to wherever that may be, you know, I want to look back and think. You know, I love that person. That person loved me. We had a blast, maybe we didn't disagree or maybe we didn't agree on this, but we loved one another and we were our you know our true selves, in whatever way that looked like.
Speaker 1:And you know, I know that these people have impacted me and I've impacted them, and that's what I think about and have started to think about that more so. As you know, the schedule is always going to be there, the work is always going to be there. As you know, the schedule is always going to be there, the work is always going to be there. But am I really carving out those moments to be with people that I enjoy, to be with people that they just, you know, are a breath of fresh air to be around? And I've started thinking about that more because I'm, like you know, a large part of my life was caregiving, and then it transitioned into something else and doing things that I just wanted to do, and then I was like I think I got a little bit comfortable in just doing whatever I wanted to do, but still being very busy and not carving out time to really be with people, and knowing that I love being with people.
Speaker 1:I mean I'm always like who can I call to go on a road trip? You know what can we do? Or who can you know, who can we go and see while we're on this road trip? And I'm starting to think about that more especially as I get older is that I want to be around people. I want to be in community with others. I want to break bread. I want to have people come and sit at my table and just share in these moments that are not quantifiable by you know how much money you're going to make or what car you drive. It's just us and we're talking and we're laughing or we're crying or whatever that may be.
Speaker 2:As I have stepped more into my authenticity and my vulnerability. Those people have shown up in masses Like there's more amazing people around me than I could ever spend quality time with. That's the hard part, and I want to spend time with all. We meet so many amazing people I mean just amazing people that I yes, I want to go and sit right next to them, and we managed to do some of it, but there's just not an. I wish I could clone myself.
Speaker 2:I know so many amazing people and speaking of, it is time for us to draw this session to a close. It is so. We have one. You probably heard it two episodes ago we save one big, the big question to the end. And today's big question for you is in your current creative life, what is the biggest pain point? And by that I mean that challenge, if it were solved, would be a game changer in your creative journey.
Speaker 1:Time. That would be a game changer for me, because that is one of the things that I think, oh, you know, in my creative life, in my creative journey, and I was just saying this this morning I was talking to a friend and I'm like you know what? I am blocking all Fridays and that is going to be my writing day. I'm like I'm going to carve out some time. I'm not going to make an excuse and that will be the day that, you know, I dig into my clay.
Speaker 1:I got into pottery last year and I did not realize it was a messy endeavor and everybody made a joke and they were like, oh, my goodness, how are you going to work through this, because you like everything so neat and orderly, digging my hand in that clay and it's messy and I lose track of all time and person and place. And it's me in the clay and I'm thinking, and so I've told myself I'm going to block off some time. I don't have to work a 16-hour day. I do many times, but I don't have to do that. Do many times, but I don't have to do that. I'm going to give myself time and that's going to be a gift to me is giving myself time.
Speaker 2:It is a gift that gives back more than most people realize. I've started painting I'd started before, a few years ago and then I've gone for many years without painting and I started painting again in the last couple of three months and it's just as exactly as you say. You know, it's just me and the paint and everything else. The rest of the world just goes away. And it's such, this amazing gift. It nurtures my soul in a way that I haven't experienced before. It didn't nurture my soul like this the first time I tried painting. I haven't experienced before. It didn't nurture my soul like this the first time I tried painting. But now making that time, you know, once again, we've got our podcast and this business, this startup that we're working to really get up and running, and I'm making time to paint because my soul is screaming. Please, please, please, please.
Speaker 1:I want to create and I found that being creative or being really doing those things where you know I am digging into whatever art form it is that I'm a much better person for everyone else that I interact with. I agree completely. I am a much better person and it's because I have that creative outlet outlet, whether it's collage or whether it's picking up the camera or clay.
Speaker 2:when I come out of them they're like oh, you're a different person it's like the weight of the world has just it's gone away well, and Alicia, you're not the first person to say time. I think that that's maybe we're going to find this partially universal. This has been wonderful. We do have to wrap because we've got another appointment in less than two minutes, but this has been such an enjoyable conversation. I have so enjoyed getting to know you better and you know when you're thinking about all those people you want to hang out with. We hope you reach out to us. I will. We would love to hang out with you. I will. We're here in the same city. We need to make that happen.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, we will. I will do that and thank you for inviting me. I have been looking forward to it. I put it on all my I'm old school, I still write things on the calendar, but I put it on all my calendars. I was like, oh, that's going to be again that gift of time to myself where I can just be with the two of you, and I was like I've been looking forward to it.
Speaker 2:Well, this is the tip of the iceberg. We'll have more conversations.
Speaker 1:We will Thank you all.
Speaker 2:Thank you.