For the Love of Creatives
Imagine a space where your creative spark is truly seen... a community where people get you.
That’s what Maddox and Dwight bring each week on For the Love of Creatives... a podcast rooted in the power trio of Creativity, Community, and Becoming.
As your hosts and “connections and community guys,” Maddox and Dwight invite you into soul-stirring conversations with artists, innovators, and everyday creatives who’ve faced challenges, found inspiration, and said yes to the next version of themselves.
Whether through storytelling, real-time coaching, or deep dialogue, this is where heart-centered creatives come to explore what’s possible... not just in their craft, but in who they’re becoming.
Expect:
- Practical insights
- Fresh inspiration
- Real stories from the worlds of art, design, dance, culinary, and beyond
If you’re a creative seeking clarity, connection, and the courage to step into who you most want to become, this podcast is your invitation.
Tune in weekly to explore the magic of community-fueled creativity... and start your own journey of Becoming.
For the Love of Creatives
#042: Douglas Lewis Struts Past the Haters: When Fashion Becomes Armor
From the confines of his grandmother's office—the very space where his creativity was first nurtured—Douglas Lewis takes us on a transformative journey from bullied youth to fashion revolutionary. Douglas's story begins with childhood memories of assembling photo albums alongside his grandmother, absorbing fashion history that would later become his creative foundation.
When thrust from the strict uniformity of private Christian school into public education, Douglas faced merciless bullying for not conforming to early 2000s Black male fashion norms. Rather than shrinking, he made a pivotal choice: "I'm going to tap into this difference." This decision marked the beginning of his fashion awakening, drawing inspiration from thrift stores, New York trips, and global trends that set him apart in his small Southern town.
What emerges throughout our conversation is how fashion served as both armor and expression for Douglas—a "peacocking" that wasn't always welcomed but ultimately became his superpower. Like fashion icons Diana Vreeland and the fictional Cruella, Douglas transformed childhood teasing into creative fuel that propelled him toward internships, New York Fashion Week, and eventually working at Bergdorf Goodman.
The most compelling revelation comes as Douglas acknowledges the disconnect between his polished professional persona and his vibrant authentic self. Appearing adorned with chunky turquoise jewelry and multiple rings, he represents the creative spirit so often hidden behind "serious" professional facades. His journey toward self-acceptance—particularly navigating queerness in the South—offers profound wisdom for anyone struggling to express their true creative identity.
Douglas's recognition that "isolation is self-imposed" serves as both a powerful closing insight and a call to action. By embracing vulnerability and authenticity, we not only liberate ourselves but create magnetic connections with the people who truly appreciate our unique creative vision. Connect with Douglas on social media to follow his continuing journey of creative self-expression and mentorship of emerging fashion talent.
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For the Love of Creatives Community
So here's the big question of the day In your current creative life what is the biggest pain point, that challenge that, if it were solved, would be a game changer for you, real time, right now.
Speaker 2:So the biggest challenge, like the biggest pain point right now is pushing past that like isolation and pushing past that like isolation and pushing past.
Speaker 1:Hey, there it's Maddox and Dwight, the Connections and Community guys. This is an episode of For the Love of Creatives podcast and today we're welcoming our guest, Douglas Lewis. Welcome, Douglas.
Speaker 2:Thank you for this. Happy to be here with you all again.
Speaker 1:So just for a little backstory for our listeners, douglas was actually a guest on my previous podcast, which was the Authentic Gay man podcast, and we hadn't talked in well probably two or two and a half years since we had recorded that episode. And out of the blue, I just got an email a few weeks ago from Douglas and we connected and it was such a great reunion and so we asked him to be on this podcast and here he is. So tell the audience a little bit about who you are and what you're about.
Speaker 2:Okay, so I am a creative storyteller, writer, with a history in editorial fashion, mainly with styling, visual merchandising, all of those creative display things, collecting magazines, and my journey has pivoted from, I guess, wanting to be an editor to becoming more of an educator. And I was deeply rooted in the fashion world and went to New York, came back and it was a huge, huge journey, but we have survived the chiffon trenches of life and we are aimed to use all of the lessons and all of the things that have occurred to enlighten the next generation and beyond. So we're at a good place.
Speaker 1:Well, and even as you step into teaching and moving a little bit away from fashion, you are quite the fashionista. I covet some of your jewelry. Thank you, thank you, thank you. So let's start off. Let's go back to the very beginning, at that wee age that you first had an inkling of, that you were drawn to things creative, and how that showed up, how that first glimmer of creativity, what was it?
Speaker 2:Oh, it's so crazy because I'm in my grandmother's office and it is crazy that you even asked that at this time, because this is the place where so much of my creativity was born, in this exact room, right now, and how old were you at that point?
Speaker 2:Oh, my God, I think I was. It's been going on for years, I mean since I was about five. For years, I mean since I was about five, six, seven I had always been around this fabulous woman and just working as her assistant whether that was running errands, going to the Ralph Lauren outlet but our main thing was archiving and putting together these photo albums and looking through all of her, all of the fashion history of my family and looking at all of the just. That was our flow, assembling photo albums and then just doing stationary and doing all the kinds of arts and crafts projects in her office, because she um, is a, is an educator, and so this is the foundation, really, of photo albums did she have to influence it in that, that in you, or did you just naturally see her doing it and want to be part of it?
Speaker 2:She. Well, I was always very close with her and then, I think, just as a result of proximity, I was just always around her and doing those things. So I think it was a mix of both.
Speaker 1:What a really beautiful beginning. You know, and grandma's still with you, isn't she?
Speaker 2:She is, she is, she's in the next town, she's in Rocky Mount, 45 minutes away, but she's hanging in there. She's a strong, strong lady yeah, that's beautiful.
Speaker 3:So, uh, dwight, you take over for a minute. You got a good question for douglas. Yeah, I, I couldn't help but kind of feel that there was something more about that journey, just as you were describing what it was like to work in the fashion world and I could almost detect a little bit of a little bit of history. So it was like to work in the fashion world and I could almost detect a little bit of a little bit of history. So it's like there were some feelings that were simmering below the surface. Would you mind sharing a little bit with us about what's going on there?
Speaker 2:As far as the journey in fashion. Empowering minds want to know okay, so I basically I started with my grandmother, um, and it just kind of matriculated into school, um, and basically it's very interesting because I went to a private Christian academy, so that was the very beginning. So we had to wear very, very strict uniforms. So we had white shirt, white hat to be a white collared shirt, blue, black, khaki trousers. We rarely had dress out days, so on occasion we could dress out on a Friday.
Speaker 2:And basically I remember at that time really my first introduction to fashion was not happy because I was like I'm so restricted and I hate this uniform and there was so much restriction. But I think throughout as I matriculated through grade school and when I transitioned from private school to public school, there was a transition there which was kind of rooted in some trauma, because I remember I never was able to. You know, I was fresh from private school so I could not wear any of the like things that were popular at the time in the early 2000s for Black men. You know, because in the early 2000s and Black men there was this chain hang low, you know that, that sagging pants, culture, all of that, and and the long t-shirts and the Air Force ones. For some reason my generation you had to have fresh pair of Air Force ones and I did not have. I couldn't afford it, I couldn't afford it, I couldn't afford it.
Speaker 2:And so I remember being bullied, partially for being queer, partially for not fitting in, and I remember I couldn't really. I was kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place because my parents, my grandmother, was like no, you are not sagging your pants, and I was like you will be. You cannot do that. And then, you know, not really able to fit in with the people in school. So I was bullied like viciously in school and I remember, throughout that process, you know, I was like I'm going to show you, I'm going to tap into this difference. I'm going to tap into not fitting in Because I remember at one point I was not you know, obviously was upset about being bullied and then I just began to like it and I began to start to express myself in different ways, via the thrift store, going to New York trips, to New York trips, looking online at other people around the world and seeing what they were wearing, wearing skinny jeans, and all of that was very different and it was not necessarily accepted in my hometown. And so I remember at that point I could use fashion and I started to really fall in love with clothing as a form of self-expression, so that I could stand out and, you know, really tap into the fact that I didn't look like everybody else.
Speaker 2:Then I became obsessed and I had this like Cruella de Vil moment, do tell it's Cruella de Vil, because you know the movie Cruella. You know Cruella to me, because you know the movie Cruella, you know Cruella, the backstory. She you know she was teased and bullied and then she began to become this like fashion person of like I'm going to show you. And the same thing is true for um, one of my favorite fashion icons, diana Vreeland, who was the editor-in-chief of Vogue and fashion editor of Harper's Bazaar. She was teased and then she wrote in her journal and she said that she's going to become the greatest, she's going to become this larger than life figure in fashion and she's going to have the best clothes. And then she became Diana Vreeland and she's one of the most legendary people in the fashion industry.
Speaker 2:And I remember I was inspired by her, but I guess through a process of collecting magazines, papering my walls with editorial spreads from V-Man Magazine, v Magazine, gq, british GQ all of these different magazines making this world of creativity come alive. That was how I got it began. And then I just had internships with other fabulous people, started going to New York Fashion Week around 2016, interned a lot, lot, and then started to just keep going back and forth to New York Fashion Week and doing research. And then, obviously, I went to New York and lived and worked at Bergdorf Goodman and met some incredible people there, so it's been a journey for sure.
Speaker 3:So what I'm hearing you share is that when you went through that really stark, you know very much, everyone had to be the same, they had to wear uniforms, that world of private school then kind of having the shock of making that transition to public school where you were mercilessly bullied and you had to hold on to a set of standards that you could not conform to with your peers in public school and it clashed with everything that was expected of you at home and from from that was forged something that would become your superpower.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm languaging it probably a little bit differently. I saw something very similar in that you, in all of the bullying, the fashion was actually a safety defense mechanism that turned into a great love and passion. Who knew that? Who saw that coming Right?
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, it is. Yes, fashion is. Fashion is instant language. It's a way to express yourself. Passion is instant language. It's a way to express yourself, and that's why I don't understand why it's so controversial at times, because it truly is an external display of what is on the inside. So if you like to wear red polo shirts, that means you're just a fiery, passionate person, you know, and there's nothing wrong with that.
Speaker 1:So nothing at all. You know, douglas, as a person who was also bullied a lot in school, and I wish I had a story like yours. I didn't have anything that you know. Counterbalanced that when you stepped off into you know what. I'm going to use this as my power rather than my weakness. I'm going to, instead of trying to fit in, I'm going to stand out. I'm going to do fashion. I'm going to do my own thing. How did all those bullies respond to that? Did it push them away or did the bullying get worse?
Speaker 2:Probably got worse at a point. I remember it was just like peacocking. I'm sorry for this, but there's like a peacocking moment that happened and it was not. It was not always met with positivity, and that was internally and externally. It was not always, if we're being honest, you know it was not always met with positivity.
Speaker 1:I lived in a small town through. Well, I didn't leave that small town until I was 29 years old and we're talking, you know, early 70s. There was a student, very tall and slender, probably a little taller than me, a little more slender than me Actually. I look back now and he was just a gorgeous black man. He was gay, gay. Gay had a huge afro and he played it to the hilt. He didn't care what anybody thought. He wore the strongest vanilla cologne I have ever smelled in my life. The fragrance entered the room before he did. It was so strong. But he really did his own thing. He didn't care what anybody thought and for the most part they would make nasty comments and things, but they didn't bother him too much. He just really kind of pulled off an attitude that in some regard said don't fuck with me. I wish that he'd been more of an inspiration. I was afraid to go all out like that. I stayed very quiet, subdued and tried to become invisible.
Speaker 1:But I love your story in that, in spite of the fact that you were really exploring your own creativity and your own expression of that creativity through fashion, and they bullied you, continued to bully you and the whole peacocking thing and your own expression of that creativity through fashion. And they bullied you, continued to bully you and the whole peacocking thing. You didn't give it up. You hung tight, didn't you? I did, I did, wow, you know, just want to.
Speaker 1:You know it's not always about bullying, but, as creatives, we're confronted every day with the need to be courageous, the need to put ourselves out there, the need to put our creations out there, whether it's fashion or art, dance, writing, it doesn't matter what it is. It's really really hard to put it out there, because there's all kinds of forms of bullying. Criticism is a form of bullying People making fun of you on social media, and so I find this particular part and I know there's a lot more, but I feel this particular part of your story is very inspiring to me, and I hope it is to our listeners, because it is a metaphor for all the ways that we, as creatives, need to stand in who we are, stand in what our creation is, believe in our creation, put our creation out there, but more than that, put ourselves out there, because putting your creation out there isn't enough. What's your take on that? What's your take on that? Because we see a lot of people on social media that plaster their art all over everything, but they're nowhere to be seen.
Speaker 2:Wow, you just I am guilty of that. Actually, that is spot on and I've been doing some deep internal pattern recognition on that. And why was it so hard for me to express myself and put myself out there? Because I think that is what fashion is wearing the clothes, looking towards more authenticity, and they want to see, they want to connect with a human being more than anything, and I think you have to be very strong to do that.
Speaker 1:I'm going to step out a little bit. I'm going to take a little bit of a risk here. I'm going to step out a little bit. I'm going to take a little bit of a risk here. You and I are connected on LinkedIn. You sent me a connection link and I connected and I went in and really looked in detail at your LinkedIn profile. Okay, and here's what I observed, and I'm sharing this with you because I really think, once again, this is a metaphor. There's something in this for everybody out there.
Speaker 1:I've had an opportunity to have multiple very, very personal and deep conversations with you and you have been open and shown up extremely authentically in my presence. I know who's in there and I've got a pretty good idea what he's about. What I noticed on LinkedIn was you're a very warm, friendly person. You have bright eyes and a great smile and although the photo you posted is a striking photo, there's no smile. Photo you posted is a striking photo. It there's no smile. I don't it there's. It's like okay, while this is a great photo, it is not the essence of who douglas is to me.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, I, I remember we, we did the review together there. I would change out the photo because it's also presenting you with a closed posture. Yeah, I think your.
Speaker 1:Your hands are crossed, if I'm like, or arms are crossed, if I'm not mistaken. The other thing I noticed was in all of the about and all the information, you listed everything you've ever done. Some of it's quite impressive. Yeah, a lot of it's quite impressive, but you didn't tell anybody who you are, and that's the most important part so, for anyone listening, this is something that we talked about.
Speaker 3:well, we mentioned in episode 35 with Kevin Whitehurst, where Maddox it was you that made the point that or you summed up what he said, as people aren't buying the art, they're buying you. The art just happens to come with it.
Speaker 1:Yes, and that translates out to whatever creativity you do. It doesn't matter whether you're an architect or a dancer. Now, dancers, of course, the nature of what they do, they have to be out there in front, and that just in this moment. I'm going aha, what an aha moment, because the rest of the creatives community needs to take some inspiration and a page out of the book of dancers way to put your art out there without putting yourself out there. When you are a dancer on that stage, performing in front of everyone, it couldn't be much more out there than that.
Speaker 2:That's so crazy that you said that, because right before this podcast, I didn't mean to interrupt you.
Speaker 1:I'm sorry, but I was listening to Josephine Baker and Josephine Baker is the epitome of putting yourself out there, I mean, but I just wanted to go ahead and let you put that in there, no, I think it's great and I think this is an amazing conversation and it just segued in naturally, Like I didn't have anything like this, planned to say any of this, but it's just unfolded organically and it's such a beautiful conversation to have. How does it land for you what I just shared with you about you and the way you're presenting yourself?
Speaker 2:It's a breakthrough. It's a breakthrough to to hear that and I receive that. I receive that because I think it coincides with a lot of different, a lot of the internal shadow work that I've been doing this past year and a half that I've been here, because I'm realizing that there has been a kind of history of of of shrinking myself so that I can be seen as this serious fashion person. I'm really not.
Speaker 1:The photo was very polished and professional and it lacked the essence of who Douglas is. Douglas is outrageous For those of you that aren't watching a video and listening auditorily. He's got this huge. He's got a fun T-shirt on just a T-shirt that says Lewis family. I can't read below that to see what it says. The rest of it 2000.
Speaker 2:We like to call carolina.
Speaker 1:Home got this really big, chunky turquoise necklace. That's almost a choker not quite as a choker, but it's just covered in turquoise chunky, got bracelets all up and down. Both arms rings on some what? Some of the fingers have as many as three rings on them, right, yes, yes, you have this outrageous way of expressing yourself and it fits you, yeah.
Speaker 3:It fits you, Douglas. I just want to give a shout out. The necklace is a welcome pattern. Interrupt, Like you're not going to run into yourself on the street.
Speaker 1:No, you're not, but that's what people need to see. That's how you're. You know, I get that. We have this thing that we have to show up professionally when we're looking to get jobs and and maybe there's a way to kind of weave a little bit of that in there, because that polish, that black outfit with the little bit of gold, trim the glasses, the whole bit. That is a part of who you are, but it's not the whole of who you are and it's not even the biggest part of who you are. I'm thinking now I'm limited in my exposure to you, but I'm going to put a guess out there and say the more outrageous part of you is the bigger percentage of you. And yes, we all have those moments when we need to step into something, that look in certain arenas where we need to look a little more polished and a little more professional, and that's okay. We wear different hats in different scenarios.
Speaker 1:But even as long as we realize that they're a role we're playing, for that and they're not like who we really are, then it's OK to to play those different roles.
Speaker 3:Even when you're wearing the hat, you still want to come through.
Speaker 1:That's going to be the difference between someone being drawn to what it is that you have to offer and, you know, just thinking that you're just more of the same. Yeah, yeah, you know, it doesn't matter where I am or what I'm wearing. I let my quirky personality shine through. I'm always making some wise-ass, crackpot comment that is making people turn their heads or laugh. I kind of like pushing the envelope a little bit, getting people to lighten up. Or I'll say something that's really deep and profound, or I'll share something really like pretty personal and people are like you know, but it breaks the ice. And then everybody I give permission, the rest of the people sitting around me now they've got permission to show the warts on their ass too.
Speaker 2:Right, right, right, because we all have them we all have them, yes.
Speaker 3:And you shouldn't be afraid to let your freak flag fly. I remember an occasion.
Speaker 1:Boy, that's a tang-tangler.
Speaker 3:Where Maddox and I went for a night on the town. We were just doing something a little bit different. So we went to a place far north of Dallas. We went to go have an evening out on the Denton Square where it's a college town, so they're used to people kind of showing their flair a little bit. But we went to a little sleepy restaurant and you were wearing wide-legged, flared pants. I had big, wide-legged pants on.
Speaker 1:I think I had a hat. I mean I had like gone for the creative, the very, let's say, I would not have bumped into myself on the street.
Speaker 1:And from the moment we stepped out of the car people on the street were stopping me to go and love your outfit oh my God, those pants are amazing. Or when we walked into the restaurant, the waitstaff, they were not busy at all. We were there early, there was hardly anybody in there and the waitstaff is all just standing around and we walk up and everybody's like, wow, cool outfits guys. And that's kind of the way we roll. We just express ourselves. I don't wear what I think other people are going to like. I wear what I want to wear and what I like, and I don't give a shit what anybody else thinks.
Speaker 1:I love that you know it's brilliant to get to a point in life where you just don't have any more fucks to give.
Speaker 2:Right, exactly.
Speaker 1:Now there's still a few areas where I may have a little bit of fucks to give.
Speaker 1:But you know, in everyday life I'm always amazed and this is maybe a little bit off topic but it's relevant I'm always amazed at how many people, when out in public, they care about what total strangers think.
Speaker 1:I am completely the opposite, like I care about what my loved ones think, but people I don't know couldn't give a rat's ass never going to see them again probably. You know, dwight and I walk on a walking trail here every morning and sometimes it's convenient where we get to walk together, mostly on weekends, because our day schedules are a bit different. We go separately on weekdays. He's early, then I'm a little bit later, but sometimes I get there before he's off the trail and we will pass each other on the trail different. We go separately on weekdays. He's early, then I'm a little bit later, but sometimes I get there before he's off the trail and we will pass each other on the trail and he stops and gives me this big wet kiss right on the middle of the trail and then we embrace in a hug and you know we really don't care what others think. You know we really don't care what others think.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thank you for sharing that. I love that, thank you. But it's, you know, sometimes it's just necessary to in order for you to fully like heal something or any like shame is. Sometimes it's just necessary, and I'm not blaming anyone, but I'm saying it's necessary to kind of get down to the root of it so that you can fully heal. And that's why that's where I've kind of been, you know, cause being in the South has not just not been the the most accepting of places for um queer creativity, you know out loud, and I think I've inherited so much of that like kind of internalized, like shame and um, that's probably another, and then in the south you add to it and it's just another layer.
Speaker 3:Hold on, hold on. Let me draw you to an icon of the South, a black icon of the South, dare I say a black queer icon of the South.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:You need to erect an altar to Little Richard. Oh yes, Come on now.
Speaker 1:Wow, you know, Douglas, I love, I want to go down the rabbit hole. I want to. I'd love to take a few minutes and dive deep on on this journey to heal, Because there are so. I mean. The creatives community is filled with every color of skin, every race, and this South thing is not just for blacks, it's for anybody that's not white, Right right right, you know.
Speaker 1:And then there's a huge percentage of the creatives community that is gay, male and female, and so I think that this is a worthwhile conversation. I'd love to hear more about this healing journey and how you're navigating it and what stage you're in. Are you closer to the beginning of the healing process? Are you closer to the end of the healing process? Let's just go into that. I'd love to know more.
Speaker 2:Okay, well, I think first, like healing is obviously is a never ending battle, but I think too I'm about 50% there, 50 to 75% there of getting towards a place of full self-acceptance and I think that half the battle was coming back home. It's easy for me to go to New York and be footloose and fancy free and wear skirts and wear, you know, dresses everywhere and pearls, but you know it's difficult when you're home and you're kind of surrounded by those who may or may not, you know, accept you know you, or turn up their faces, or so it's been a deeply grounding process for me to do that. But throughout the process of coming back to North Carolina and really looking back at my photos of an inner child and it's crazy because inner child, that is the beginning, I think that is the ultimate, inner child healing is the ultimate, that inner child creative healing.
Speaker 2:And I think for so long I had this gothic period and it's interesting how we're correlating healing internally to clothes. But I had this gothic period of all black and trying to be serious and that you, you know, closed off persona. And then I looked at some of my pictures when I was five years old and I was looking at my pictures and I was wearing orange. You know, I was wearing orange t-shirts and I was having a good time and just being creative. And and that's where I'm I'm returning to is this just inner, inner child creativity of like just do it you don't have. It doesn't have to be supply and demand, it doesn't have to be everything, doesn't have to be the better business Bureau, you know.
Speaker 3:You know, and as I and as I hear you relate, that I'm I'm reconciling what it was that Maddox just shared about how he doesn't care what the people on the outside think. It's the people close to him, and I'm hearing how you're having to confront the people that are close to you, the people that do have an outsized impact on how you feel, right, right, and it sounds like that's kind of the last barrier for you, like there's a lot of hurt there.
Speaker 1:Well, and it also it is worth saying that. You know, in New York City it's so acceptable to be just dressed any way you want to dress and weird that it's not a safety issue there. But when you go back into the South South in North Carolina, wearing skirts could be a death sentence, you know. So you know we have to balance. What do we? You know, it's not like you have to try to suddenly fit in and look like everybody else, but you may have to tone it down just for the sake of your own physical safety, health and well-being, and I hate that we have to do that.
Speaker 1:And all the more reason to get the hell out of Dodge and move to someplace where you can fully be yourself. I left that small town at age 29 where I was in the closet. I had been acknowledged to myself that I was gay, to my family, to my friends when I was about 24. And I didn't leave my hometown until I was 29. And the first thing I did when I arrived in Austin, texas, was I just told the whole fucking world I am one big old, huge fag.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:You know I am not living in the closet anymore. If you got a problem with who I am, there is the door. Do not let it hit you on the ass on the way out.
Speaker 2:Right, right, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I stopped apologizing and stopped caring. I just you know, acceptance for who we are is an inside job. I would have never guessed this until I experienced it firsthand. And this isn't just I'm going to say right here this isn't just about gay. It's about anything that we need to be accepted for, whether it's the color of our skin or some different language that we speak or it's a disability, it doesn't matter what it is. When we accept ourselves in here, the rest of the world's accept us out here for the most part. I've gone through this multiple times. When I finally got completely comfortable with being gay gay I stopped experiencing any homophobic activity whatsoever.
Speaker 1:At one point I'd worn contact lenses for many, many years. I came into the world blind and I started wearing glasses at age five and they were thick Coke bottle bottoms and I wore contact lenses from the time I graduated from high school until I was in my mid-upper 30s maybe. And then one day my eyes said sorry, we're done, we're not, you do not put those plastic things in us anymore, you know. And I had to go back to glasses and it was a dark day because I didn't feel attractive in glasses. I had been teased all my life. It had all this trauma like balled up in it.
Speaker 1:And there was this moment when I I hate glasses, I hate glasses, I hate glasses, I don't like the way I look in glasses, I don't, I don't feel attractive, all this bullshit. And I had to look in the mirror and tell myself, dude, you do not have an option, you're legally blind, you have to wear glasses and you need to get over it, right, right. And I said, maddox, you need to learn to love yourself with glasses. I did the same thing with. You need to love yourself as a gay man. And so I just started telling myself that I'd look in the mirror and tell myself how much I loved myself in glasses. Those glasses look amazing on you. It was a very short period of time where complete strangers on the street would stop me and say cool glasses, those look amazing on you.
Speaker 2:Right, right, I still, you can ask Dwight decades later.
Speaker 1:I mean, I was 35-ish then. Now I'm damn near 70. And people every day stop me on the street and say great glasses, those look amazing on you. And it was an attitude shift that I had when we can love ourselves because we're a paraplegic in spite of the fact that we're a paraplegic, if we can love ourselves because we have dark skin the whole rest of the world's going to follow suit. I've experienced it over and over again in my own life and it's been consistent, Right, right.
Speaker 3:I want to encourage you to extend that even further.
Speaker 2:I want to encourage you to extend that even further.
Speaker 3:Like what you were saying before, or you implied that you were dealing with that final frontier of acceptance and that's those loved ones around you hard. The first step is the hardest on this. But if, if you embody truly loving and accepting yourself and embracing all that makes you who you are, you're going to experience that that judgment, that's a reflex, that's that's because of their upbringing, that's because that's what they know. But you are going to shine like a beacon for them and you're going to educate them and you're going to show them that all the world is not as they have been taught that it is.
Speaker 1:He's speaking the truth there. You know, I came out at a time that was much different than this. I came out in 1981 in a small Texas town. Now was it a jolt. Did my family have to adjust? It was a period of time of kind of like adjustment, but every single family member, from grandparents to parents, to nieces, to nephews, to brothers, sisters, every person in my family fully accepted me.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I have to believe that's because you know I was doing my work to accept myself.
Speaker 3:I would like to offer you a challenge to move that scale of where you are and that self-acceptance beyond that halfway point. And it's a pretty simple challenge on LinkedIn. And how do you think he would feel about displaying that warm and open person that we know that you are? And allowing others to see it.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they haven't had a chance to actually see who you are and, you know, will there be some people that will be repelled. Oh, hell, yes, right, right, right. Those aren't your people, right? You know? We talked about this before. Vulnerability and authenticity are polarizers. They send the naysayers, they send the people that you wouldn't want to have in your life anyway. They send those people away and it draws the people in that are the right people for you, the people that want to come sit right beside you because they appreciate who you are, just as you are Right.
Speaker 3:Right yeah.
Speaker 1:You've heard the term like a moth to flame.
Speaker 2:Like Janet Jackson, like a moth to flame. Yes, yes, yeah, I hear you though. I hear you, I hear you. But I'm going to break through now because I'm realizing, you know, it's not my responsibility to monitor how I'm seeing, you know, it's my responsibility to just be exactly as I am, you know, and for and for a long time, that was difficult for me to fully lean into that. But I think through, like I said, deep shadow work. I'm coming up on a breakthrough because and I have started, you know I have I literally was transformed. I, like y'all, shot a thousand volts of electric joy inside of me from that last interview because I broke down. It was some stuff that needed to be released. I was crying, you know and y'all, y'all have been.
Speaker 2:you snatched me, Y'all have been snatching me bald. You see, I don't have no hair. You see my edges.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for those that can't see, he has a shaved head. So we done, snatched him bald.
Speaker 2:You snatched me bald. You snatched me bald, but you know it was necessary and I started, you know, posted on TikTok. But yeah, I'm in a good place. I'm in a good place.
Speaker 1:So thank you, I want to and thank you for that and place. So so I want to, I and thank you for that, I and I, and, and I just want to say I am so proud of you.
Speaker 1:I'm so proud of you. Thank you so much. You know I'm probably old enough to be your grandmother or grandfather and I'm just, uh, yeah, proud. I want to shift gears a little bit and hear a little bit about your take on community and creativity and how community plays a role and and how maybe it was in new york and how maybe it's different in north carolina okay, so this is.
Speaker 2:I'm actually excited to talk about this because it's something that has set me free, like with community.
Speaker 2:I would say it's. It's the tonic to connection and it's a. It's something that keeps you, you alive, I would say, because, in the midst of all of that shame and all of the people who are saying like, oh, you should do something else, what have you achieved in fashion? Or all of that projection throughout the past year and a half of like you should do something else, and all of that that I was receiving, that was a tonic for me. I was like you know what, the more y'all try to tear me down, I'm going to lift as many other people up, tonic of my, of what I'm doing now, which is is trying to use my experiences in the fashion industry and helping the next generation to um, to be to get their foot in the door.
Speaker 2:And I know that was a. I know that's a lot and it's kind of a run on, but there there's a guy. There's been a guy that I've been helping and he goes to my university, he loves jewelry as well and that those moments that I've been connecting with him, helping him, you know, get ready to go to New York Fashion Week, because New York Fashion Week is coming up. He's never been to New York Fashion Week. So those moments that I was, you know, with him and seeing the next generation of black jewelry lovers, that was extremely therapeutic to me being around. You know the next generation of black jewelry lovers. That was extremely therapeutic to me being around. You know the next generation and yeah, so.
Speaker 1:Yes, you know, douglas, I believe you have a lot to offer. You know you, and you're going to be able to impact not just black people or gay people. You're going to be any kind of marginalized community, whether it's disabled or autistic, or you know, you have been on the side where you know you didn't feel like you could be who you are, and now you are really discovering the power and the beauty of being who you are, and that translates out to just about anything and everything.
Speaker 2:Right, it's a journey. It's a journey, but you really can't do anything on your own. You really can't and this is something that I'm learning. Even the conversation that I'm having with you and Dwight is so impactful. To be able to have a relationship with you all, it means a lot to be connected and that's something that I've struggled with for a long time being this, like even with my friends. My friends are like, let us live. Like what's wrong with you, like you're like Elektra from Pose.
Speaker 2:Do you remember Pose, the show? Pose? Yes, yeah, I had that character of Elektra, of I'm so serious and I can't allow anybody. Everything is about business and everything is just about and I remember that scene in that show Blanca, her daughter, she was like it's the people who make your life, who enrich your life, and I think about that also. You know, even with clothing, even with fashion, like part of the beauty of clothes is, or dressing up, is dressing up with your friends in the mirror. You know putting on the eyeliner and sharing a mascara. You know these little things like that to get ready to go to the party, like it's not even really about the party, it's about getting ready in the process of the party, of getting ready for the party, so I love that.
Speaker 1:Yes, that's great. I truly love that. Wow. Well, Douglas, this has been an amazing hour.
Speaker 2:Thank you, yes, it has.
Speaker 1:It took some interesting turns and so organically and I love the places that we went and the places we visited.
Speaker 3:Well, we would be remiss if we didn't close by asking a big question.
Speaker 1:The big question. Yes, that big question. Thank you, dwight, he's keeping me on track. Okay, we kind of keep an eye on each other. So here's the big question of the day In your current creative life, what is the biggest pain point, creative life, what is the biggest pain point? That challenge that, if it were?
Speaker 2:solved would be a game changer for you. Ooh, real time right now. So the biggest challenge, like the biggest pain point right now is pushing past that like isolation, and pushing past yeah, pushing past the self-imposed isolation and Ooh, ooh, I got a call out that you just owned that.
Speaker 1:Okay, Listeners, did you see how he just owned that self-imposed isolation? Isolation is most always self-imposed, you know. If, if you're in a Turkish prison, you know, maybe it's not self-imposed, but otherwise, most of the time it's self-imposed. What a beautiful calling it out and I want to acknowledge you for taking responsibility, accountability and owning that.
Speaker 2:Absolutely wow, this has been quite an experience and we're so glad that you could join us today.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, I'm happy what a treat for our listeners.