For the Love of Creatives

#046: What If The Work Isn’t What You Do, But Who You Become With Maddox & Dwight

• Maddox & Dwight • Episode 46

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What if the most powerful upgrade to your creative life isn’t a new tool, but a new identity? We’re expanding our platform with a third pillar—becoming—and opening up a candid, behind-the-scenes conversation on choosing who you grow into and why that choice changes everything.

We unpack the myth of arrival and the trap of quick fixes, then move into the deeper work that actually sustains craft and community. From self love as a daily practice to sharpening the saw for true creative flow, we explore how identity-based change helps you make better art, hold your boundaries, and find fulfillment that outlasts a milestone. You’ll hear vulnerable stories about grief, shyness, and the slow, audacious steps it takes to speak on camera with presence or walk into a room of strangers without shrinking.

We dig into inner child work, the quiet power of intention words like Believe, Courage, and Audacity, and the freedom of reframing “what should I do?” into “who do I need to become?” Along the way, we examine reinvention and personas, drawing lessons from public figures who reclaimed their voice and ownership, and we highlight the practical habits that let creativity move through you rather than stall at the surface.

If you’re ready to make work that feels aligned—and to be the person who can carry it—press play. Then tell us: what trait are you choosing to cultivate next? Subscribe, share this with a creative friend, and leave a review to help more people find the show.

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SPEAKER_00:

What got you here won't get you there. And to unpack that, you know, who you are currently got you to where you are currently. And to get to where you want to be in the future, you can't get there being who you've been. You have to figure out who you who you need to be to get to that next stage of evolution and growth. Hello, hello. It's Maddox and Dwight, and you're listening to for the Love of Creatives podcast. So today is an unusual episode that we're recording, and we're actually pretty excited about it. Today, as you can tell, we don't have a guest. It's just going to be the two of us. So we have been doing some research. We have um been gaining some feedback from some of our fans and listeners, you guys. And we have made the decision to add um a component, a new component to the podcast and to our platform. So as you've probably heard over episodes, if you've listened or you've read some of the things that we do on social media, we always say that for the love of creatives podcast is about the intersection of creativity and community. And today we're going to give, we realized that it was a stool with only two legs. So today we're going to give the stool a third leg. And that third leg is becoming. So we're we're looking at creativity, community, and becoming. And Dwight and I are going to bat that back and forth a little bit today. You're getting to see kind of behind the scenes real time because we haven't fleshed this all out. We've had a few thoughts about it and really realize this is the direction we want to go, but you're going to get to see it happen real time. So let's jump in. And uh Dwight, why don't why don't you share your some of your vision first and what's going, what's rolling around in that beautiful brain of yours?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, we've had an opportunity to have a lot of people weigh in about this. And we've even had some guests that have shared some important insights. I mean, I I remember in our conversation with Mark Russell Jones, he talked a lot about how it is that we come into the world fully formed. And uh he was quoting uh Herman Hess uh on that theory. And to me, that resonated a great deal with what I'd read in Robert Green's mastery about how there are so many forces that make it so that we lose touch with what it is that that's really who we are and who we're meant to be. Um similar thing with uh Patrick Williams, you know, his whole concept of uh having a situation where we have uh creative collapse or creative colonization. It's the the same concept. And I I can see that there's a lot of truth and beauty in that. And I think that we can all relate to what it is to have our true essence uh beaten out of us or shamed or uh you know, we're we're made to conform to expectations. And I think a lot of becoming is recovering from the trauma of being told that how you're not right, how you don't fit what it is that's expected.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes. And and while I think becoming is not necessarily like a brand new topic, I mean, Michelle Obama wrote a book entitled Becoming Here just a few short years ago. I think that it's new enough that there's a still a freshness about it and there's a lot to explore. And I think that there's a lot of people that, you know, maybe even going right now, okay, becoming what what exactly are you talking about? And so we're gonna kind of unpack that, but we also want to say that we are we are there. Dwight and I are both in a a place of becoming right now. This is um this is a topic and a way of being and a part of our growth process that we've been aware of for a while, but it was kind of unconscious. We were we were we were working on becoming, but we may not have necessarily had the language for it that we have now. Um, I know one of the things that is coming up for me is that I'm realizing that we are always in a state of becoming. As human beings, we are always in a state of becoming. But there's two ways that shows up. One is unconsciously, and the other one is consciously.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, I'd say there's more than two. Um, there's uh an ancient bit of wisdom that's told uh basically as we never step into the same river twice. And if you unpack that, it's talking about more than just something that would come up on a hiking trip. We are forever going to be different. We will never be the exact same person that we are, no matter how you look at it.

SPEAKER_00:

Always changing, always evolving, sometimes consciously and sometimes unconsciously. You know, I can look back and realize a lot of the unconscious, you know, and when you're when you're becoming something unconsciously, it may not be something you want to become. Yeah. And that's where the you know, bringing it into conscious awareness is such a big thing. Um, for me, it's very, very powerful. Once I became aware, you know, and and and I know that this may be so, but what I'm about to say may raise some eyebrows. You may say, I don't, well, I don't believe that. And that's okay if you don't believe that. I believe it with all my heart. And and that is we we as human beings also get to choose who it is that we want to become. You know, there's this, you know, come back to home, discover who you've always been, and and there's value in that, and I get that, but there's something missing there for me. I don't know that I want to just find and discover the person I've always been, because I'm not as exactly sure what that is. But when you say, who do you want to become? Now I'm not, you know, there's a difference between who do you want to become and what do you want to become? Right. You know, who do you what do you want to be? What do you want to be when you grow up? A fireman, an astronaut, all those things. That's not what we're talking about here. Um, I think that who you want to become comes first before you can really decide what do you want to become. They play, they they interplay together, but it's hard to know what you want to become when you don't know who you want to become.

SPEAKER_01:

Right. And I think that there are a lot of things that serve people looking for the quick fix. They want to productize it and make it so that, oh, I've got an itch that I want to scratch, and someone wants to sell me on something that's just going to get me from A to B. Well, for some people, that might be all that they're prepared to embrace, but there's always a lot more. There's something more unsettling that's causing that discomfort than that thing that you're immediately aware of. And until you're willing to confront the those things that are the source of the traumas, the things that are causing the real discomfort, there's always going to be uh an emptiness that you're trying to fill.

SPEAKER_00:

I I I think you're I think you're spot on. I think we linger sometimes in the surface. And what where we really find our answers is is in the deeper place. You know, uh we talk about this in manifesting. And, you know, when you say, gee, I want to have this high-powered job or I want to make a million dollars. That's never the end game. So what would it, what would it mean to you if you had that high-powered job? What would be possible? Right. And and we don't ask, ask those hard questions.

SPEAKER_01:

Um, and and I think that's the the trap that we're we're pushed into for anything that makes it so that people say, well, I will be happy if, or I'll be happy when. And it should not, your happiness should not be something that's based on an external variable.

SPEAKER_00:

Exactly. And and this is it, you just laid the perfect energy for the segue, which is, you know, we think when I get there, I'll be happy. And it doesn't matter whether you're talking about getting that million dollars or that high-powered job or that new car, or whether you're becoming something that you truly wanted to become, we don't ever really arrive. There's no, there's no destination. You get that. I mean, how many times have you said, Oh, I want a new car? And you got that new car, and for about a week or two, you were really excited, and everything was like, Oh my God, I've arrived. And then next thing you know, you're focused on something else you want. It's like, that's why I say there's it's not a destination, it's a pit stop. Yes, if you made this declaration about who you wanted to be, you know, I I I was meditating this morning, and um one of the it's a guided meditation, and one of the pieces of guided meditation is to think about somebody that you truly love, and and then you know, see that love as a color and let your heart fill with that colored energy of that person you love. And then you expand it out to your your bedroom, your home, your neighborhood, your city, your country, and the globe. And it's this beautiful meditation, it's about expanding love. But and I've listened to this meditation on and off for a number of years, but in the last few weeks, there have been many times when he said, think about somebody you truly love. And the face that came into my mind was my own. And I realized how I for some well, for a number of years now, I set a goal that my the thing I wanted to become, the person that I wanted to become, was somebody that truly loved himself. So it's not about things, this becoming thing is I don't want to, it's not about becoming the CEO. It it's about something so much more deeper and more profound than that. I wanted to become the person who truly loves himself. And now when he says, think of somebody you truly love, and my face pops into my own mind. I get this, okay. I'm I'm laying in this in bed meditating, and I my eyes are closed, and all of a sudden I get this huge, shitty, eating grin on my face because it's so amazing to think about my own face coming into my mind. And that's something that I've been becoming. Now, will I ever fully arrive there? Perhaps not. Maybe I'll hit a pit stop. You know, right now the pit stop is woo-hoo! My face is coming into my mind when I when I meditate and hear that. But becoming is it's not a circle, it's a spiral.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

You know, you it's like a spiral staircase. You come back around where you're in the same position, but you're one floor higher.

SPEAKER_01:

Your perspective is different.

SPEAKER_00:

So, you know, if and I'll I'll demonstrate this. If you've ever thought, wow, wow, I'm so glad I finally learned that lesson. That was a really hard lesson to learn. I don't have to do that anymore. And then a few months down the road, here you were in that lesson again, and you're going, What the fuck happened? I thought I had this lesson completely down. I thought I learned it. Well, the truth is you learned it on the first floor level. Now you've gone around that spiral staircase and you're on the second floor now, and you're getting that lesson on a higher level. And this is something that instead of being like, I can't go through this again, we should be grateful. We should go, oh my God, I'm getting to learn this on a deeper level now. And this is gonna help me in every aspect of my beingness and my life.

SPEAKER_01:

And you know, there's something about that contentment that gives you a greater appreciation and the ability to focus. Whereas if you're just trying to go after that next carrot, you go after that that next thing that's supposed to be what you're after, there there's something empty inside. You're you're not able to fully embrace those those lessons that you should have gotten before. You know, there is and I think that we see these lessons um delivered in ways that I that are um palatable for for where we are to hear it. Uh I know that in uh a lot of covey's work, there's um or there's the the story of Abraham Lincoln, you know, when asked if he had four hours to complete a task, how exactly would he go about it, you know, to cut down the tree? And he would spend the majority of that time sharpening the saw. And if you unpack what what's being said there, you know, that's when you're sharpening the saw, just the act itself is meditative in that it's it's repetitive. It's seems to have nothing to do with the the intended outcome of having a tree cut down. But it's because you you take the the time to spend the effort that you're able to, in the end, have the most impact with the effort. You know, the same the same is true in um the in Sun Tzu's um the the whole concept of um the art of war. The majority of what what's being talked about in that is a way of relating, a way of being, so that to be the baddest warrior on the battlefield, you are setting yourself you're you're setting yourself up so that you will never have to pull your sword. That's ultimately your goal. You want to ascend to a state where even though you will have had the hard skills, you're not going to put yourself in harm's way. You're not going to unnecessarily put yourself at risk because you're putting in place all of the things to make it so that uh if there's something that's uh increasing your risk, you have a contingency plan. Uh and the whole thing, the whole concept of becoming is ascending to a state mentally, spiritually, where instead of being drawn to the next shiny thing that's pulling you in a direction, you can have that moment of pause, that moment of quiet, where you can evaluate if it's something that really serves you, if it's really something that allows you to better serve others. And that's that's not a conversation that that everyone is ready to have.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, you call that out. I agree completely. You know, back to your story with Abraham Lincoln, because in that moment, and I'd heard that story before, I hadn't thought of it in a long time, but what came up for me, and it relates to what I'm doing right now as a painter, I'm painting. And I find that when I am painting, sharpening the saw, um, it is incredibly meditative. The whole world goes away and all that exists are is the brush, the paint, and the canvas, or whatever other tool or medium I'm using. It's just, it's right there. But I've noticed that in that space, you know, when you're when Abraham Lincoln was sharpening the saw, that doesn't take a lot of brain power. You know, you you get the the stroke in motion and you just work back and forth, and there's this stillness like meditation, where then whatever higher power you believe in, because that's where all creation comes from, you know, and it it, you know, I always like to say, I call myself a creative, we're all creatives, but truthfully, what we are is we're the conduit. It is creativity coming from the universe through us. It's not coming from us. Otherwise, it would get stale really, really fast. I mean, that's why there's always these new ideas, because those new ideas are coming from someplace greater than us. And in that stillness, when you're sharpening that saw, is when it's like the most fertile soil for those little seeds to sprout and the ideas and the creativity to come. Um, I let's bring it home for a minute and let's really focus on, you know, this being, the becoming part of it for creatives, because that's what we are here. We're creatives. And we all want to be the best creative we can be. That that's a given. You know, nobody wakes up in the morning and says, today I think I'll be a shitty creative. We just don't do that. So we all have this unspoken, perhaps universal goal that we want to be the best creative we can be. And I believe that's where becoming comes in. When we can step into this question of this space of exploration and the unknown and curiosity, and say, well, who is it that I want to become? And what would be possible for me if I became that person? There's a lot of questions around this, you know. What has become possible for me as I have leaned farther into self-love. Well, we don't have enough time for me to tell you all that, but it's been a lot. A lot. Um, you know, and another take on becoming in um early 2020, I went to Mind Valley Live, which is a personal growth organization. If you haven't heard from it, just um search mindvalley.com and you'll find it. It's the largest provider of online education on the globe. And I went to one of their live events in uh LA. And they had asked each participant, there was a over a thousand people there, they'd ask each participant to decide, uh uh, like they wanted us to give them a word. What is a word, something that you're wanting to lean into, something that has meaning for you? We also call it intention words, and this is kind of a thing that we're all maybe a little familiar with this. So I chose the word believe, because at that moment in my life, I knew that there might be all kinds of amazing things possible for me if I could step into a greater belief in myself. Well, when I got to the conference in LA at the registration table, they had a little gift for me. And it was, it was a little bracelet like the one I have on here. It's a little washer with a little cord, and engraved in the washer was the word believe. And I wore that bracelet for probably three years. It meant so much to me. It was my daily reminder. I couldn't, I couldn't look in the mirror, I couldn't look down without seeing that little engraved word believe. And there was a point where I really felt like, wow, is there more? Yes, there is more. But I had gotten to a place where I was believing in myself sufficiently enough that I was ready to move on to the next thing. So I got one of the little kits so I could make the little jewelry. And the my next one was a bracelet that said courage, because now I had the belief that I could do it, but now I knew I had to take action. So I had to have some courage to take action. And it doesn't matter what the do it, what the it is, it it, but I knew it needed courage. And I wore my courage bracelet for probably, I don't know, year or two. Then I made a little necklace, and you can see I have one on now. It's a little, little, same little thing. And the first necklace said, what did it say? Now I've forgotten. Maybe this was the first next. I'm getting a little confused. I've had so many things. This necklace says audacity. I wanted to be audacious in my life. I wanted to live my life boldly. Now, maybe if you've known me for a while, you may think, oh, whatever, Maddox, you've always been bold. Okay, I'm outspoken, yes. But bold, this was a kind of bold that's different. It wasn't just bold to be in a social setting and be outspoken and tell a funny joke or do something weird. It was more about a bold of putting myself out there. It was more about being in front of people and and being authentic, which is kind of risky.

SPEAKER_01:

I have an experience of what it was like to see you in a context where all that I knew of you was always being the gracious host. And I remember an experience that we had where we went to an event that was not ours, and you were surprisingly uh subdued. You were not the same, you were not the same Maddox that I had known. And I got to see a little bit of why it was that you wanted to lean into uh embracing audacity because you you you didn't have the role anymore, and it's like you you didn't really have a place. So you it's like you took pains to be incredibly small and quiet.

SPEAKER_00:

You know, I have in social settings with strangers, I have been incredibly shy my whole life of those those situations, a room full of strangers. I'm intimidated. It's just it's overwhelming, it's intimidating. I for years I have gone because I knew I needed socialization, but I would stand in a corner or against a wall and not talk to anybody. And it's taken me a lifetime. But over the last couple of years, wearing my little audacity necklace, where that I'm reminded all the time, I'm getting better and better and better. Now I'm pretty bold when I've got the microphone and I'm leading the social event, whether it's an event that we hold or whether it's a little gathering in our living room with friends or dinner or something. But yes, I've really had to really lean into that audacity to be able to walk into a room full of strangers and walk up to somebody I don't know and say, Hi, I'm Maddox. Who are you? And I'm getting better at it. I'm getting much better at it. And I'm very proud of myself.

SPEAKER_01:

I'm very proud of you too.

SPEAKER_00:

I haven't gotten to the point of the pit stop yet because uh there's still so I'm still becoming that audacious person to be bold in the places where I would normally shrink back because well, it brings up stuff from my childhood. You know, I'm still working on resolving some, you know, multi-decade old trauma. Um, but you know, the becoming, it's just a it's a it's a big topic and and you say more. I'm I'm I'm rattling around.

SPEAKER_01:

You you take it for a minute because I I've I've well I I I just want to commend you on how it is that you have embraced leaning into becoming that person that is comfortable in any space. Uh and invariably you you've talked about this before, how if there are places where you don't feel safe, uh it's um you you're at ultimate choice. So you can change that situation. You can you can remove yourself. Uh I'm not I'm a big believer in how we're all far more empowered than um some might have us to believe in any situation. And it's just a matter of exercising that power in a way that's responsible and and and uh mindful of your needs.

SPEAKER_00:

You know, likewise the way you have watched me go through some of my becoming, I have watched you go through some of your becoming as well.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Well, you you've gotten to see me go through an arc of profound grief. And uh I I had to deal with some things that were analogous to how a mighty elephant is trained to believe that a simple stake driven into the ground can keep it held prisoner.

SPEAKER_00:

You know, I I want to speak to that a little bit because yes, you've talked about this on previous episodes, and people know that you lost a partner, a spouse, a husband of 20 years to a um to a disease that took him. And when I met Dwight, he was in profound grief. And he tended to talk in kind of a flat monotone voice. There was, it was just level. It was, you know, if it was a heart rate monitor, it didn't go blip, blop, it went ooh like this. He just talked in flat monotone, he didn't get excited about anything. And as we began to get to know each other, he began to show me deeper parts of himself and show me a little bit of personality. And I can remember one day after we had been seeing each other for a couple of months, maybe three months, I said to him, you know, I wish you would show the dwight that you showed to me. I wish you would show that dwight to our friends, to my friends that I had introduced him to, because I said, I just know beyond a shadow of a doubt, if you will let them see the Dwight that you let me see, they will all be eating out of the palm of your hand. And he took that to heart. And it didn't happen overnight, and it wasn't like a flick, a switch flicking. It was very gentle at first. He leaned in just a teeny little bit at first, and I kept encouraging him, and he leaned in a little bit more. And now all of my friends just adore him, absolutely adore him.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, and it's that's translated into a lot of other things. One of the one of the things that you got to uh start me on a journey toward was um, I remember you you shared with me some lessons that you had learned. Well, you'd paid for a really expensive course that is, I'd say, a stepping stone to being a spokesmodel. And uh you you shared with me some of the some of the exercises that you went through. I remember having that experience. Of seeing you record a video, and I was just blown away because you you um were driving home this concept of being over the top because for whatever reason in video everything is just flattened. So imagine what it's like with me who's someone who had an incredibly flat affect. If I was on video, then uh someone seeing it might have thought that I was dead or someone was throwing their voice.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. You you were a dead, uh you were a ventriloquist dead dummy. You know, it's funny because he saw me doing videos and he came to me and said, Teach me how to do that. I want to do that. Now, so that's a form of becoming, but I but I want to say that it wasn't the becoming wasn't about becoming a personality on video, it was about becoming the person who had all of the necessary character traits to be a video personality. Let's see, there's a distinction here. It wasn't showing up and saying, I want to become a video spokesperson. No. So who was it, Dwight? You are okay. If you've not seen his videos, he is on fire. He has become, he has surpassed me as far as being a video spokesperson. His videos are just friggin' amazing. Who is it, in your own words, that you had to become to be the video spokesperson that you are now? Because we haven't even had this conversation. So I don't know how he's going to answer this, but I'm I'm curious to know.

SPEAKER_01:

I well, I I have a lot of avatars that I aspire to. And uh a lot of it just has to do with a few of the things that we helped unlock together. I mean, one thing that's uh really core of of who I who I am and what I'm about, and a lot of the things that I share on my video content have to do with embracing who it is that you are, looking at that that person that's inside you, maybe that that think, that aspect of your personality that you try to obscure because of some deep wound, and being kind and nurturing to that aspect and getting in touch with that wounded child, that bullied child, and and soothing that child and saying that you you got them. It's okay. And I couldn't agree more fully. Just leaning in and taking care of that person, that beautiful human being that you are, getting rid of all of the ways that the outside world out of a need to protect us tells us that being a real person isn't okay. It's it's kind of weird when I I look at all of the the messages that are there. Some of them are subtle and some of them are just right there for you to see, where they they say it's not okay for you to be you. And I think that enough of us are waking up to the point where we we appreciate that someone else's comfort is not our responsibility. There is a point where some of the rules that are in place are actually quite harmful because they're they go to a place that's mean spirited without without even knowing it in in some cases. And I'm thinking of things like uh the reason that we have the Crown Act. You know, there's there was such a pull to have Eurocentric beauty standards applied to people of color, you know, for and I I think that we we've gone through a horrible time throughout all the last century where it was expected that if you if you were black and in the United States, you you aspired to look like a you know a white European presenting person, even if that meant using harsh chemicals uh and putting yourself at risk uh to to achieve that that outcome. And that's that's just insane. I I'm glad that we're having a moment where people can embrace that there is beauty and not having everything look exactly the same. It's okay for us not to have been pushed through the same cookie cutter.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I agree completely. You know, I want to backtrack for just a minute. You said something so profound about, you know, the the inner child. And I, you know, I I don't want to say that this is the way it is because I don't know that I I can't, I don't really can't say I'm an expert with inner child, but I can say that I have done a tremendous amount of inner child work. And so I'll speak from my experience. And my inner child, it is different for every person. My inner child is seven years old, and anytime I'm struggling to do whatever it is, struggling to walk into that room filled with strangers, struggling to um put myself out there in some way, like being a host on this podcast or whatever, it is always the seven-year-old that is blocking me and preventing that from happening because he doesn't feel safe. And when I can go in and work with him and help help him nurture him and help him to feel safe, then he takes the guard down and lets me do the thing that I'm trying to do. But he has the ability to block all kinds of shit. You know, he's he may be seven years old, but he's a very powerful aspect of my being. And he can prevent me from doing what I'm trying to do if he thinks that there's danger involved or he doesn't feel safe. I, you know, I wish this was something that we taught in in school systems. I wish this we we learned how to navigate our inner child while while we were still a child, you know, or as soon as we got older than a child. But there you have it. That's my thoughts on that.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, and we we all have to deal with uh the the cards that we're given, you know. Um I have a profound appreciation for um how it is in uh doing the work, Dr. Nicole Lepera, and I'm probably butchering her name, um, kind of laid out how every parent is going to give their children uh uh trauma of some kind. It doesn't matter how perfect they are.

SPEAKER_00:

No way around it.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

No way around it.

SPEAKER_01:

Exactly. And so we we have those wounds. And you know, it very well could be that if it's a situation where every pain was taken to make it so that uh the a child grew up and what would be uh a perfect life and nothing went wrong. Well, even in doing that, you've you've made them too soft. They're not prepared for the first time that life punches them in the mouth. You know, they they will they would be devastated as soon as anything goes wrong. And they they don't have someone that's keeping them inside that bubble.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Um the whole topic of becoming is very exciting to me. And I hope it's as exciting to you, the listener, as it is to me. You know, the thought that I can sit and ponder who is it that I want to be? Who do I want to be in this world and in this life? And how do I want to show up? Those are very, very exciting questions. And I get to have it be any way I want it to be.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Well, and and I think that there's something that's magical about being in a place where you're ready to consider those questions, because we know that we encounter countless people that would be blown away even hearing it. Or maybe they wouldn't even hear it, no matter how clearly you asked it.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, throughout my life, I've heard people say, well, this just was the hand that I was dealt, that hand of cards that I was dealt, and I just have to get over it. No, you don't. You know, you get to reinvent yourself anyway and as many times as you want.

SPEAKER_01:

I I love that. I love that. You know, and it's funny as you say that, I'm I can't help but think of all of the the great divas who have made careers of always being someone different. You know, whether whether you're talking Cher or Madonna or uh Brittany or you know, they they all get to Don different personas. And at at any at any moment, they are who they need to be.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, and I know there are people out there right now that are going, yeah, but they're celebrities, they're famous, they're rich, all that stuff. Yeah, doesn't matter. You have the ability to reinvent yourself any way you want, just the way they have done. It isn't about money and it isn't about fame. Maybe you reinvent yourself, and the only people who get to see that are the people you love.

SPEAKER_01:

Right. Well, and and some of them actually use it as a defensive mechanism. I I was uh really intrigued when I I read about how Beyonce, Beyonce is a persona, and you know the the real person is actually someone who is painfully shy, incredibly private, and far removed from that uh that stage presence that everyone knows.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, I've read many times that Barbara Streisand her entire career has had crippling stage fright. Crippling stage fright. And um sometimes, you know, the record labels or the networks that you're affiliated with, the the people who basically own you, dictate who your persona is. So celebrities aren't always maybe a good representation of what we're talking about because I I know Lady Gaga at one point publicly stated that she never intended to be who she's become, that that was not what she had in mind, but the record labels pushed that because they knew that was the way that everybody would make all the money and the fame.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Um, and and and you wonder why so many uh celebrities or drug addicts or end up committing suicide. Uh, that is a really high pressure, you know, you're you're becoming something oftentimes there that's not of your choice. So let's just call that out for what it is. Um, some people, I don't know. I I I would be willing to bet Madonna and Cher have never been pushed into too much. That was all their own doing, probably. But, you know, it we don't know. We don't ever really know for sure.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, well, I mean, it's kind of hard to say. There's uh I I think of all the cachet that that Cher had, I mean, she had her own uh big network TV show and and her and her time, and you know, she's been able to call lots of shots, but I I think that we've seen that things have really evolved. I mean, look at um how um Taylor Swift has um owned who she was. Like she's uh had to come up through a system where uh we the way the game was played, you you had to follow their rules, and you were you were owned by the record labels, and she wanted the intellectual property, so she jumped through the hoops to make sure that even if she had to re-record all of her masters, that's what she did, so that she owned it.

SPEAKER_00:

Yep, yep. There is an example of somebody who decided that who they wanted to be and didn't let anybody tell them they couldn't be that. She is she does exactly what what she wants to do when she wants to do it, doesn't answer to anybody. There's been lots written about that, but yeah. Well, I think we've probably laid the groundwork today, and to to talk on any further would be rambling. So let let's let's wrap it up. Um, you have any words of wisdom or anything you want to say as a as a final note?

SPEAKER_01:

The only thing that that I have to say is that we need to be able to have some kindness when it comes to how it is that we've gotten to where we are and realize that we're not limited by the box that others want to put us in. If there is a dream, if there is some other capacity that you wish to fulfill, ask what you need to do to take that next step to get there. And if you commit to it, if you put in the work, you will.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, you will. And that that leaves me with, and I can't take credit for this, and I don't know who said this, but it's brilliant. And that is what got you here won't get you there. And to to unpack that, you know, who you are currently got you to where you are currently. And to get to where you want to be in the future, you can't get there being who you've been. You have to figure out who you who you need to be to get to that next stage of evolution and growth. Um yeah, I had a tr something that just came to me and I'm and it may be gone before I can come up with it, but um yeah, it's gone. It's gone.

SPEAKER_01:

We'll write it down later and save it for another time.

SPEAKER_00:

Absolutely. Yep. You're gonna be hearing a little bit more about this, a lot more about this, actually, because we just really think that this is as creatives, this is for every human being, but as creatives, this is really on target for us. So there's gonna be a big focus in everything that we do that is about becoming. Thanks for listening today. We love you. We will support you in any way we can, and we will see you in the next episode. See you next time.