S2 E4: What a Cranky Cow Taught Us About Reframing with Leadership and Reframing Expert David Woods

In this episode of Barn to Boardroom, Cory and Camille of True Grit Edge sit down with David Woods, founder and chairman of Magellan Executive Partners, to unpack one of the most powerful mindset shifts in leadership: reframing.

From being voted the shyest kid in school to becoming a trusted advisor to executives and leaders, David shares how changing the story he told himself transformed his confidence, leadership, and impact.

Together, Cory, Camille, and David explore:

•  Why 90% of your happiness is shaped by your interpretation—not your circumstances
•  How to shift from “I have to” → “I get to”
•  The power of listening—and knowing when to pause instead of react 
•  How creativity occurs on the backside of “no”
•  And how reframing can reduce stress, build stronger teams, and transform your perspective 

Because the difference between frustration and growth…
 is often just how you choose to see it.

🎧 Insightful, practical, and packed with real leadership wisdom—this episode will challenge the way you think.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hey Corey.

SPEAKER_03 0:01

Hey Camille.

SPEAKER_01 0:03

What you been doing? Um try not try not to kind of got like a scowly baddie face going. What's going on?

SPEAKER_03 0:11

I got my cranky face. Um well first of all, we can't talk about the weather, right? That's the rule. Okay. It is beautiful outside, but don't talk about it. I did, I will just say this, and I'm not talking about the weather, I'm talking about me. Go figure. Um I did chores in shorts and mucks and a t-shirt today. Smart. Anyway, is it? But when you're maybe having, yeah, I don't know. Stay covered. If you're a ranch, you're supposed to talk to stay covered. But um uh 112 is she's nasty. Um and uh we think over the I gotta reframe with her.

SPEAKER_01 0:45

Yeah, that's a hard word for a cow.

SPEAKER_03 0:48

She's nasty, she's mean, and uh she's crazy too. Um she's the one that uh you don't want to turn your back on ever. But um, you know, we think over the holidays a few months ago that she may have kicked one of our other cows because they fight she she is territorial about food. Well, I guess I am too. Okay, I get it. Never mind.

SPEAKER_01 1:11

It's called angry Corey.

SPEAKER_03 1:14

Uh but um, you know, this morning, so I put her, you know, I put her in her own. Well, first thing we did is we had to take 220B that had the limp and go, okay, what's going on? We called Andrea Charlotte. Uh she's our cutest little cow, by the way. Um uh and she's spicy too, but she's not crazy. Um but um you have to go, okay, well, dude, I gotta get the hoof person here and get him in the hoof catch and see if there's a if there's a knell or a screw or some kind of abscess going on in the leg. And then, you know, me, I always panic, like, let's get him here today. And then you take her a couple days. Give them a couple of days, give her a couple of days or whatnot. Yeah, so we gave her a couple days and the limp started too, and all of a sudden it dawned on me, like, I bet 112 kicked her when they were going for food. So I took 112 and I put her in her own bedroom, aka Corel, and she's been in there and she hasn't been out with the timeout for a while. She's been in timeout for a minute. Well, this morning I noticed that she wants to get in with those other two cows so much that she has completely pushed, and good thing they're pinned, but she's completely pushed, and and hats off, I've got to do a shout-out to Brazen Cattle Panels.

SPEAKER_01 2:27

We do love those.

SPEAKER_03 2:28

They're made down under in Australia, but they're heavy duty in the Corel system. But um she had pushed those because she's trying to get into that other. So anyway, I need to reframe, which I think our our amazing guest is gonna talk about reframing today. I need to reframe my um thinking about 112 and say, what can I do for her?

SPEAKER_01 2:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:50

So that's that's it, Camille.

SPEAKER_01 2:51

That'll give you a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a let's hopefully well, let's just hope after this you can go back out and and it probably won't be any different with her. But you'll be happier coming in and you won't have that scal on you. I'm not a hot change, but you will.

SPEAKER_03 3:04

Yeah, there we go. And you know me. I don't yell and scream. We don't even have a whip. But this morning I looked her in the eye and I'm like, I could really yell and scream at you. And if I had a cattle prod, good thing it's not hate.

SPEAKER_01 3:17

Oh, okay. Let's reframe. Let's get let's chip.

SPEAKER_03 3:20

She looked at me like, what are you gonna do about it?

SPEAKER_01 3:22

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:22

She's okay, well, so I'm gonna calm down while you introduce our guest.

SPEAKER_01 3:27

Okay, good. Let's reframe. It's good talking to him, so which is legit.

SPEAKER_03 3:31

It's a real thing.

SPEAKER_01 3:31

Yes. Um, today we have David Woods. He is an author of two books, Old Fashion Leadership, Lessons from the Patio. And love that. Yes, and The Art of Networking Beyond the Handshake, and serves as the founder and chairman of Magellan Executive Partners. A former CEO of three companies with more than four decades of leadership experience, David brings the mind of a strategist and the heart of a mentor. Known for making complex business challenges practical and actionable, he helps leaders gain clarity and reduce stress. An engaging and impactful speaker, David delivers real-world insight that resonate with leaders at every level. Today he focuses on connecting great leaders with Magellan's team of former CEOs while continuing to help executives enjoy the ride of growth and build organizations that don't depend on the leader for every decision, but instead develop teams that think, lead, and grow on their own. And uh, this 100% is accurate. Everything it says about them right there. Hey David, welcome to Barn to Boardroom.

SPEAKER_00 4:37

Well, thanks very much. I'm glad to be here.

SPEAKER_03 4:40

David, yeah, thanks so much for joining us. I'm gonna just jump right in and I got to ask the first question. Um, you mentioned to Camille and I and to a group of people actually not too long ago that you were voted the most shyest boy in your high school. And um we've in your introduction, we talked about obviously when we introduced you, some of the great things you've done, and you're gonna teach us um a really impactful concept today, but I have to ask the question. Being voted the most shyest boy in your high school, and now as we mentioned in the intro, you know, you've led companies with thousands of employees across many countries, even somewhere along the way, you had to, and I'm gonna use your word, reframe, the story you were telling yourself. What was that first story you had to to change? What did you have to tell yourself that I'm not the shyest person around in the world?

SPEAKER_00 5:34

Um, well, I don't know that it had to do specifically with being shy. It probably had to do more with framing how I thought of myself. Uh and I had gone to work for uh a company called Ditchwitch uh when I was 23, and my my mental vision was I'm gonna be the best dang employee I can possibly be. So that was my personal quest, and I worked really hard at it, and fortunately kind of got pulled up through the organization. Um I think just because hard work and maybe some creativity, I'm not sure. But anyway, when I was about twenty-eight, so I'd been there five years, uh I had been already promoted to uh my next my first position above entry position. And uh I was talking to a a dealer, it was a dealer in Indiana, and we were I remember we were wal walking across his front yard of his uh of his house. We were stopped there for a cocktail at the end of the day, and we were chatting, and I must have said it two or three times. I didn't know I'd said it two or three times, but I must have said, uh I can't believe I got the promotion. I I'm not sure I deserve it. I you know, I just kept uh I I guess playing the humble card and uh he finally just stopped and he says, Look, he says, You've said that way too many times. He goes, You just need to accept you're pretty good and just own it. And uh, you know, I I never really probably owned it the way he thought I should in his head, but it it did make me realize shut up, Woods, and just uh be the person you've been promoted to. And uh that that worked really well. I was I I remained humble, but I also understood if I'm putting in a position it's because I did something that uh they when you get promoted, somebody above you saw something in you they want spread out over more people. And and that that that framing helped me a lot. Like, okay, I'm doing something that they want me to ignite other people that are underneath me. And I kind of held on to that thought most of my career. Uh you know, you again you get promoted not not because of you, you get promoted because you're doing something that they want to see uh spread out, if you will.

SPEAKER_03 8:00

That that's a that's a great point. And and that's an you know, we've I hope that a lot of us have been in that situation where we we're being humble. And um, but it's it's interesting that that uh you know you said shut up, Woods, and and um the the the person's like you need you need to own this. You know, you've written a couple of books, and um, like I said, Camille and I've dove into one pretty deep, and we're getting ready to dive into the other one. Um and I uh I mentioned to you before we we started recording that um Camille and I had spent some time with you uh in Las Vegas during a conference not too long ago, and then I found out we got home on Saturday, I found out I had to turn around and go to uh to Tennessee. And at first I'm like, and it was a it was like a day turnaround, and I was like, oh man, I've got to go to Tennessee. I have to go to Tennessee. And Camille's like, well, what would David say? Let's let's reframe this a little bit. You get to go. So what gets you get to go? And so just that little statement alone is such an impact and a changer. What's some other things that some other rules that you would say you put in place for yourself to help you reframe things?

SPEAKER_00 9:12

Yeah, well, reframing is it it's a skill like any other skill. And uh I've learned for me personally, it's something that I uh I I had to learn how to do, and I I do it every day, virtually all day long. If I hear anything that might be perceived as bad news or change in plans, whatever that may be. There's an interesting stat uh that I read once that 10% of long-term happiness is driven uh only 10% is driven by external circumstances. The other ninety percent is determined by your interpretation. And so you think about all the things that happen to you, and the first reaction often is if it's sometimes, like I say, a change in plans or you didn't something didn't happen the way you wanted it to, uh, those are external circumstances, and how you interpret that is a key to sort of long-term happiness. And uh I do it personally, uh it's really become the culture of our company here uh to reframe things, you know, just a silly little example. If if you called me and said, Hey, we're gonna meet at three o'clock, and at two fifty-five you call and say, I'm sorry, I can't make it. Nobody in our office gets upset about that. We view it every the the term everybody uses around here is you just got the gift of time. And so we view it as a blessing so that now we can uh we have an hour to do whatever we want, whether that's relax or dive into the next project, whatever it may be. But we just don't view it as a negative. We view it as that that wasn't meant to be for that hour, so we're gonna do something else better.

SPEAKER_01 10:56

Instead of that frustration and moving away from negativity, that's amazing. Because I would get frustrated.

SPEAKER_03 11:03

Yeah, I would too. I would say just to be frustrated, like well, that person's not very organized, yeah. Um that's great.

SPEAKER_01 11:11

Yeah, that's awesome. Um, so when we had the um chance to hear you speak um in Las Vegas, and you were able to take there's uh quite a few nuggets and lessons in your book. Um The Old Fashioned Leadership Um Lessons from the Patio. I think that's the exact title of it. But um the you you let the audience pick what they wanted to hear. Um and the the one, I can't remember if you spoke on that one or if it was the one I wanted you to pick, but nobody else wanted to hear that one. Um was about um like the have you considered shutting up or have you can you know, have you considered um so in reframing, I feel like sometimes we over talk, like we are trying to talk the other person or talk ourselves into something instead of just being quiet and observing and listening and thinking about it for a minute. Can you share a little bit more about that?

SPEAKER_00 12:13

I'm sorry, Camille, say that again. We was that a specific nugget or just ask the question, maybe.

SPEAKER_01 12:19

Yeah, well, the nugget about have you considered shutting up and you know, just I just loved that one and I wanted to hear a little bit more about that one at the conference, and so I'm taking this time today to talk about it.

SPEAKER_00 12:32

Yeah, I'm trying to remember specifically what that may have been. I had 70 slides, I think, that we could have gone through, but well, I don't I don't think you talked about it because you let it was awesome you let the audience pick.

SPEAKER_01 12:43

Um just whatever you've got.

SPEAKER_00 12:48

Yeah, communication communication. Yeah, well, I mean, whether it was in my speech or not, that's a good consideration. Have you considered shutting up? And uh, you know, I do that as a leadership skill. Uh I also do it when I'm networking. You know, most most of my pe people that sort of, I'll just put it this way, would like me right away. It's usually because I don't say anything. Instead, I just ask them a lot of questions about themselves. And uh, you know, three days later I'll run into somebody else saying, Hey, so-and-so said they mentioned they really like you. And I'm thinking to myself, well, that's because they talk the whole time. And uh, but but that's that's that's by design. It wasn't that their ego made them talk that much. I just kept asking them questions because I'm sort of innately curious, and and I find that that's a great way to build relationships, whether that socially or from a business standpoint.

SPEAKER_03 13:47

Yeah. Let's uh let's uh kind of go along with what Camille was saying, and and um I'm I'm gonna actually talk about more of maybe when it's time to shut up with yourself, because you know, you had mentioned about the the 90% comes from within of of the influence, you know, good or bad, but probably mostly negative. Um you know, so we'll we'll we'll call that lying to yourself, I guess. So how do you know the difference between reframing and um and and maybe when you you're kind of just lying to yourself, we got to be a little careful there too. What's kind of that line you draw? And then a second follow-up question to that is um reframing to me can in way the way you just explained to David, can really help you so that you're not building stories in your head. Give us maybe a specific specific example of of a time you've maybe used that of like, um is this in my head or is this really going on? So, first of all, we need to shut up with ourselves and quit maybe lying to ourselves, but also to what's a specific example?

SPEAKER_00 14:54

Yeah, well, the first one that comes to my mind is uh I I think that's natural, right? You get an idea in your head and you play it four or five times and it keeps sounding better and better. Um what I found my my probably my most successful trait um is surrounding myself with people that will call foul. Um and so I'm naturally a little bit entrepreneurish. Uh and when you're a little entrepreneurish, you have some great ideas and some not so great ideas. And so I'm uh I'll often before I get too far down the road, I'll I'll get it planned out well enough I can kind of see the light at the end of the tunnel, like I think this is a great idea. Uh but before we ever put anything into action, I'm I'm running it by the team, and it can be our CEO and our president, or it could be uh our operations team. It doesn't really matter. Uh they all know and have great permission to say, hang on, hang on, you you didn't think about this, you didn't think about that. So I I think my first one, so I'm not, as you put it, lying to myself, is I've got to have a good sounding board. I think that's uh part of what I know our culture here is that we have that same kind of culture in uh my other company, Cortado Ventures, it's a VC firm. Really smart people there, nobody's afraid to speak up. Um and actually when all of our coaches coach, that's one of the primary things is you can't you can't lie to somebody if they need to hear the truth. Your job is to tell them the truth. So those are my those are my first thoughts.

SPEAKER_03 16:41

Well, you you've you've my next question I was gonna ask you, you just answered it, but um it's it's spawned a thought. And um, you know, Camille and I with TrueGrid Edge, and you know about the the curriculum that we we work through and that we work with, um, that Camille and I have come up with, we talk a lot about the kind versus nice. And you just talked about you know that, and um reframing is really being kind, right? Saying, hey, uh no, this is what we need to do, and we get to do it. Um we don't have to, but we need to, but we get to do it. But my question is, is um with reframing and that kind versus nice, is how do you reframe it when people around you, maybe it's in your home, it's at work, it's your crew, it's your sports team, when they are stuck in that I have to mode. How can one person like yourself, David, as a leader, shift the entire room into the perspective of reframing of, no, I I it's an honor. We get to, we're blessed. How do you how do you do that?

SPEAKER_00 17:46

Right, right. Well, first of all, before I go any further, by the way, congrats on True Grit Edge. That's a really cool concept. I love how you designed it where you can really help people grow and take care of cash flow and stuff like that. So I've learned just enough about the two of you to just say kudos to you. So I really thank you so much. Um on the uh on the reframing, I I think the if somebody needs to hear something, um usually what I'll do is I'll I'll get them talking. And I've learned I've gotta let them I don't mean to sound crude, but I've got to let them run out of gas. So if I can tell they're upset about something or they're doing something wrong or whatever it might be, you know, I'll just start asking them about it and I'll let them kind of spiel for quite a while. And uh when they're finally done with that, by then they can tell just by the fact that I sat and listened, whether it's one minute or eight minutes, it doesn't really matter. Uh they know I'm really listening. And then I'm usually uh I'll just plug in something that makes them realize that I'm trying to get them to think. It may be a question or it may be a statement, but I'm trying to let them know I'm really trying to I'm bringing my comments with love and uh and and they'll usually take them that way. And when you sort of speak with a little bit of love in your heart, uh people will will listen. So uh uh I kinda let them talk for a while and then I'll uh as contemplatively as I can ask them a question or make a point. Uh and then I can I can usually spot by their body language that they're now they're really listening. And I'll just slowly through questioning and a few comments, I'll get them to move from kind of where they were to maybe a a new a new world for themselves.

SPEAKER_01 19:42

Um gonna kind of switch topic. Yeah. Um switch topics just a little bit, um, just to get a little more personal with you. Um we were just recently at a state competition with our daughter, and um the advisor had asked all the competitors to give their rose and their thorn, and which is their good moment and their bad moment. So what's your give me your rose and your thorn of I don't know, just your career or the last few weeks, or what's a good day, bad day?

SPEAKER_00 20:15

Yeah. Uh well, my thorn is we lost our youngest son about six years ago. So I'm so sorry. We can't get past that. Yeah. So that that that one there's no thorns that hurts more than that. So uh as far as my rose, um probably before and certainly after, I just treat every day uh as though it's a rose. And I I don't I don't have I I just I don't I don't get too wrapped around the axle on too many things. Uh if I do, I I mentally dive into how do I reframe this? And uh so uh again, every day is pretty is really good in my life. Uh and I do have one pretty big thorn.

SPEAKER_03 20:59

Yeah. Yeah, David, thanks for thanks for sharing that Thorn. Now I understand you a lot more. Yeah. And uh what reframing means because um after after going through that and um the loss of a child, everything in your mind after that's gotta be, hey, we can reframe this, right? It's just the day, it's what's going on today. So that's perspective.

SPEAKER_01 21:23

And um And when we talk about true crit, it takes crit every day to get up and and go after you've experienced something like that.

SPEAKER_03 21:34

Is there ever a time that reframing doesn't work? Or is it is it is it undefeated?

SPEAKER_00 21:40

When you lose a son, yeah, right. When you lose a son, you can't reframe it. I tried and I still can't.

SPEAKER_03 21:45

And uh Does that help you with reframing things that are that are um now all of a sudden because of perspective like you know, this is not a big deal.

SPEAKER_00 21:53

Everything else, everything else seems pretty trivial after that. Yeah, I'm sure. Uh yeah, re reframing is much easier. I think. Uh but it you know, it was a skill I worked on uh for for sure the last half of my career when I began to learn what reframing was. Um which I sort of learned from the former owner of Ditchwitch, uh, you know, uh that that was my first exposure to like, oh, you can take something not so good and turn it into something good.

SPEAKER_03 22:23

So when I think about reframing and um when you know we we've gotten to know you and we what since we've gotten to know you and understood that hey, this is you've got I can already say what some of your non-negotiables are. And Camille and I will ask people, hey, what are your what are your non-negotiables? And most people can't answer that because you've never really thought about, well, what what are my non-negotiables? Well, one of my non-negotiables is um gotta be positive, we can't be negative. And even when things are critical and there's tough stuff going on, um, you might not be fully positive, but being negative is not gonna get you anywhere. And one of the things that I've really thought a lot about reframing, years ago, I had a mentor, his name's Tim Kite, and unfortunately he passed away a little over a year ago, well, it'll be two years here in May of from cancer. But he started the Focus Three group, and um, so I got to give credit to Focus Three because they've continued on, but they have a term called no B C D. It's it's no, you can't blame, you can't complain, and you can't get defensive. And when I think about reframing, I think about no B C Ding as well. Like, hey, hold on. Are we are are we sitting in this spot refusing to reframe because it's easier to blame, complain, and defend? And it's a little tough to go, you know what? We are blessed that we get to go do X. And I have to just make this a little light as I look at Camille because I'm not, I'm her worst, I'm the worst child in our house. I don't know if you know that, David. I'm her I'm her problem child. Um, she has to go like, oh my gosh, I have to deal with Corey today. And she and and it's all on me. Camilla, you get to deal with Corey today. I get to deal with today. But with that being said, you have to be positive though, right? I mean, it r or or it really takes you out of a negative mindset and pulls you into that positive. And you have to say, you know what, I can't blame anybody, I can't complain about anything, I can't get defensive, I'm gonna reframe. And um just wanted your thoughts on on it really pulls you out of the negativity, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_00 24:28

Yeah, I you know, I think uh some of this just goes back to uh one thing I encourage people to do is uh you have to understand your make make a list of your values. Uh and what I mean by that, it can't be cheat, lie, seal. I mean nobody does that, right? Or can do that. Uh it's more about what what are those uh I these are the things I I will live by, if you will. And there it's a personal thing, you don't have to share it with a bunch of people, but uh it's for me it's it's really helpful. Um you know, obviously, just like everybody else, I could say, oh my family comes first, and it does, but I I always mentally take it you know, I mentally think of each person in my family that you know I won't do anything that will hurt them, right? And so it's more than my family's first and that kind of a thing. It's I don't know why I think of it as deep as I can because that really resets the way I think about things. Um the the other thing, yeah, as an example, and a lot of this is reframing um as an example here at work, uh every once in a while as an example, we we don't require any contracts with anybody that we work with. Uh contracts are nothing but a something that creates stress for people. So I tell people, well, we don't do contracts, so it's either what we're doing together is either working or it's not, and if it's not, we'll stop. Well, every once in a while. And and it's been very few times, probably less than five and twenty years, uh, where somebody maybe they didn't pay us or something like that. And uh a good example would be uh we stopped an engagement uh and they they didn't they didn't pay us as an example for a portion of that, right? And uh usu usually I'll call them and they'll explain and I'll go, not a problem, we'll send we'll send your check back, right? And uh I'm sorry, if they overpaid, because maybe we'd stop and we'd overpaid, I said, not a problem, we'll send the check back. And it goes under that value of do what's right, even if it hurts. And that sounds trivial, but it's uh you it's in the small moments that you have to catch that. And in those small moments, if you catch them and you do the absolute right thing, not only is it the right thing for to do, it really sends a signal to the whole group uh okay, he did it in that in a sense when it'd been very easy for us not to send the check back as an example. And uh it's those little things that people extrapolate and begins to define the culture of an organization. So I'm pretty big on doing the right thing, even in a really small stuff.

SPEAKER_01 27:31

You know, um you're the the second company I've heard in the like the last week that's not working through contracts and um and my job just screams like you need a contract. But the more the more I'm hearing that, the more I'm thinking, um if you're networking with people like you should and you're holding your values like you should, why do we need so many contracts? Like it's just an easy way to track things, right? Like it's my accounting mind screens don't, but my ethical mind says it's okay not to have it.

SPEAKER_03 28:12

Your David Woods mind says don't.

SPEAKER_01 28:13

Yeah, it says it's okay to not have it. And and how how you know you can hear people go, well, the legal department's making us do it. And it's like, you know what, maybe it's okay we move, we go back to the handshake. Why can't we go back to those days?

SPEAKER_03 28:29

It's it's reframing. You know, Camille just mentioned that she heard, she's heard it. I don't know who she's mentioned with, but it's crazy that you say that, David, because I was um I about fell out of my chair as in a meeting back in January, and this was a pretty large deal that we were negotiating on some athletic college athletic sponsorship stuff for a group. And um the per the the person of this large company said, Yeah, we don't we don't do contracts. You'll get you'll get it done. We know you will. We wouldn't be sitting here with you if we didn't think it did. And I'm in my mind, I'm thinking, well, this protects you way more than it protects us. And I'm the one that said we probably need to get the agreement drafted up and get it going and look at what those in and he said, We don't we don't do it. We're gonna write down what you what you're gonna do, we're gonna write down what we're gonna do, and it's not in contract, we just know. And I mean, this is a large organization.

SPEAKER_00 29:22

I'm not I'm I'm not advocating that in every single business situation you shouldn't have a contract. There are certain businesses you probably absolutely need a contract. So I hope your listeners don't think I'm saying for everything. But let's change the culture a little bit out there.

SPEAKER_03 29:38

I think everything's I think you've touched on something that's actually really cool, and it goes right back to what we're talking about. Reframing is that you know what? Um now those people that you return that check to go, do we do we need one in the future? No, this is how they operate. And and but but if you don't do those things, then that's where you might go, yeah, we better get a contract in place, right? So reframing, you kind of almost be like, we you know, we get to serve these people. We want to serve them so well that if they had a choice, they wouldn't even put us under contract. Because they know we'll get it done.

SPEAKER_00 30:09

A good a good way to think about that is if you do it without a contract, uh I'll I'll just say for me, I'm I'll just speak for me. Uh when we do it without a contract, we have a relationship. The minute we bring a contract out, it's now a transaction.

SPEAKER_01 30:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:26

And I don't like transactional relationships. And so, and and oftentimes even when I'm chatting with a CEO of a company or whatever, uh, and I can spot, they kind of want to know, uh well, they'll usually say, well, just send me a proposal. And I also say, we don't do proposals. Um I say, you and I are gonna sit here and we're gonna walk through this thing, and I'm gonna tell you how much it'll cost, and you either like it or you don't, and either is fine. Yeses and no's are both great, right? And so, because if I do a proposal, I've transactionalized the relationship again. And so I'm like, I'm gonna tell you, we're gonna look each other in the eye, and it either fits or it doesn't fit. And trust me, a lot of times it doesn't fit, and I I don't get upset about that. You know, God didn't want me to go work on that one, so he made it where we didn't. And so I I again I just don't get upset about that. But I I find that proposals and contracts just uh we've been brought up in a society, I don't know when that started in business world, uh that you have to transactionalize everything. And it just uh to me just sort of destroys the fun of it if you uh isn't it? And by the way, when it's just a relationship, I find our whole team works a lot harder. Yeah. Because they know every day they have to earn that, right?

SPEAKER_02 31:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:49

You know, David, you've you've um you've done a lot and you've accomplished a lot, and I love the fact that you're still hungry, and Camille, I love that that you're still hungry and you've you've got a long ways to go and a long uh a lot of things to teach a lot of us. With that being said, your reframing, has it changed over time though, too? Do you are there things you're like, you know what, I don't even need to worry about reframing that why I'm even talking to myself about reframing it? Is the first question is has has the way you reframe changed as you've matured more and more in the reframing and more in your career? And then kind of a follow-up to this, I'm just curious, and if you're like, hey, Corey, you're getting way too much in the weeds, and Camille will nod, yeah. I am. You know, I can you kind of reframe up and reframe down, and and what I'm talking about there is um, do you think most people reframe down, meaning that they do make things or reframe up, they make things bigger than what they need to be, or do they reframe down and make them smaller than they really are? And which maybe is more dangerous, or is it no reframing is reframing, Corey?

SPEAKER_00 32:53

Yeah, you know, that's a great question. I'm not sure I've got a perfect answer for that. Uh yeah, sometimes you can, you know, people can get too wrapped around the the axle on stuff and they're uh you know, I don't know. It it's sort of interesting. I I think if I'm talking to somebody, I have to understand where they're living. You know, so if I'm talking to a 23-year-old that's on an hourly wage, uh my reframing better be in their language, not in, you know, I'll just say CEO language, because they're not living the way I'm living. And so I think my reframing has to has to change quite a bit around that. Uh you know, it it's interesting uh you kind of reminded me of one of my favorite things to do, and I mentioned this a little bit ago, but yes and no are both good answers. Uh what I learned a long time ago, and yes has always been there. Uh it's always been there. I think as I've aged, I find more and more ways to reframe things. I'll I'll just say more mental tools. You know, as an example, uh years ago we were uh this is way back, but back in my days of of Ditch Witch, we were growing really fast. And I we needed a new building. And I went to the owner and I said, uh I'll I'll be shortened the conversation. Basically said, we need a new building. And he went, No, no, not gonna do that. And I looked at him like, Are are you crazy? Because we won't be able to build as much equipment. He goes, He goes, No, we're gonna figure out how to build it with what we have. And so what I learned, the lesson I learned in that is creativity is what occurs on the back side of no. Interesting. And so and so anytime I get a no from anybody, and by the way, just to finish that story, he said no. I went to the team and said, We can't do it, we've got to figure out how to do more. And within it took we had to sort of reinvent how we manufactured, we had to do a bunch of other stuff, but within somewhere between three and five years, we had thirty percent more space than we needed because we reinvented everything where we didn't need as much space, and so that creativity came from we were told no, right? And so anytime I hear a no anymore, I go, all right, won't it be fun figuring out what the positive's gonna be on the back side of this?

SPEAKER_01 35:23

That's ultimate reframing, right?

SPEAKER_03 35:25

So so David, I want you to say that again. So no, when you hear no, it say that statement again about no and creativity, how you just said it.

SPEAKER_00 35:35

Creativity is what occurs on the back side of no. So is that yours?

SPEAKER_03 35:42

Did you come up with that? That's amazing. Well, yeah, I think that one I did. You might want to go get that. You might want to go get that trademarked right now.

SPEAKER_00 35:54

No, it it I mean I it's been in my head for well, it it got in my head from that one instant. Yeah, yeah, I think that's the title of your next book. I'll let you take up on another one.

SPEAKER_03 36:08

No, no, I think I think uh seriously I'm looking at Camille. She just action when you said that because holy cow, I've never thought of no that way. No means no. And in like, no, you no, my mom would say she was a stickler on getting on on getting home on time, and and I'd say, Mom, um, could I have leeway? Can I have till 1205? Can I have a five-minute leeway every now and then? And she's like, sure, your curfew is now 1155. And no me, no, we're not. Like, that's what it is. And so maybe I needed to get creative on how I got home, or maybe my event was closer to the house, I could be longer, and and I need to think about that way. But um uh that is that is a huge nugget you've just dropped on this podcast, by the way.

SPEAKER_00 36:57

Yeah, well, I appreciate it. We we we it's another one of those around here. We don't get upset over nose.

SPEAKER_02 37:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:04

We just uh again, you kind of I guess it's reframing to say, won't it be fun to figure out what we're gonna fill that space with?

SPEAKER_03 37:11

It's completely reframing.

SPEAKER_01 37:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 37:14

Completely reframing.

SPEAKER_01 37:16

Yeah, it's uh not often Corey gets speechless, so this is new.

SPEAKER_03 37:19

Yeah, I don't know when to shut up, and you've just rendered me quiet here for a second.

SPEAKER_01 37:24

Well, when he gets excited and passionate about something, he asks a lot of questions. If you notice the last time he threw like four questions at you, and usually I tell Corey, Corey, can I answer the first question before you get to the fourth question? Because he gets excited and wants to ask questions.

SPEAKER_03 37:38

I think you need to reframe that and just feel blessed. I asked you four questions too.

SPEAKER_01 37:42

That means he's excited about it.

SPEAKER_03 37:44

So um I did come with a lot of questions. He does have a lot of questions, and it's good because I get excited. I want to know, I want to learn. But um uh, you know, David, as we wrap things up, I'm gonna have one final question for you. But one thing I wanted to just tell you is thank you. Thank you for the time that you've shared with us this morning. Thank you for what you've taught Camille and I over the just a little bit of time we've gotten to know you, and we're excited to continue um on and and really this mission uh which I feel like we're all on of um uh reframing, but uh maybe I mean I don't know the best way to put the mission, but the mission is is that sometimes the way of of the old school way of things is really what we need in life right now. So the getting back to people, the reframing, the um the handshake, the um the no's okay. One of the things I wanted to share though is thank you so much for sharing about your son. Um we can't imagine what that's got to be like. But one of my questions was gonna be, and I'm not gonna have you answer it because you already did, and it's just crazy, was um when someone has experienced real trauma, and I wrote this question down, does reframing come into that or does it not? And so thank you so much because you answered that question. And so there's a lot of people that do listen to our podcast, we know them that have had hard trauma and hard real what is really hard things in their lives, and so thank you for sharing that. The last question we want to ask you, David. Oh, go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 39:11

Just one, just one comment on that. So um yeah, as you pointed out earlier, that's certainly the biggest thorn. Uh, but in grief, uh my wife and I had to learn how to reframe grief because we've never experienced grief like that, right? Yeah. So, you know, as an example, uh we had to sort of come to the agreement that literally weeping is okay.

SPEAKER_01 39:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:40

Uh so we don't try to hold back and it comes in weird moments, you know. Anybody that's had that kind of trauma will tell you that it could be it can be anything. And so we've learned, don't you know, just whatever you gotta you can weep and we'll hold each other and that kind of a thing. And so we learn that weeping is really nothing more than sort of love coming out of us. And so we try to we've had to reframe what the I'll just say the the symptoms of grief are, of what is that really that's going on. And uh I mean I can't reframe my son's death, but I can certainly reframe uh so that keeps it I say positive, that's not the right word, but makes it makes the grieving understandable, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 40:31

Can you share his name just so we can think of his memory? Was that too close?

SPEAKER_00 40:39

I'm sorry, his name? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:40

What's your son's yeah, what's your name?

SPEAKER_00 40:42

Yeah. Uh Ian Van Wood. And uh great he was a cinematographer, very, very creative. He had a heart condition, unfortunately, we didn't know about. And so uh Yeah. There was a knock at the door, we thought it was him, and it was two policemen telling us that they'd found him in his apartment.

SPEAKER_03 41:08

That's so anyway. I think this is probably a pretty good place to end. Um, because now we do know. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 41:21

We can probably for hours.

SPEAKER_03 41:23

Well, we could, we could but but David, you are appreciated. And um you're one of those people I told Camille this morning that you know, David's one of those people we've known a short time, but I feel like I've known him my whole life. And as as as cowboys and ranchers, we look at each other that way. I meet a rancher and I might have only known him or her for five minutes. And real quick, I can I can tell you that uh I feel like I've known that person my whole life. And in in in there's certain you know, circles that that you can fill that. And so, David, thank you for um being that person. I would also tell people, and we'll do this um in kind of our wrap-up, but make sure you go grab your book. Yeah. And we're gonna grab your next one. But um, Camille, is there anything else you wanted to ask David before we let him get back to his day?

SPEAKER_01 42:11

No, I think I think we've covered just a variety of topics. Thank you for sharing Ian's story. Thank you for just just everything that you've, like Corey said, brought to our lives in such a short time. Um, again today, as we've talked with you, as we did before. We've learned a nugget, we've gotten something we can take away. And thank you and bless you for that.

SPEAKER_03 42:34

And David, sprint to that attorney's office and get your no and um speaking of conference. Yeah, go go get that contract, get that, get that. Yeah, because people like Camille and I might say, that sounds good in some true grid edge curriculum. So no, we'll always make sure you get credit mind-blowing what you did there and said anything else you want to share with us before we let you go?

SPEAKER_00 42:54

Well, just probably because we didn't talk about this, but I'll tell you for your listeners that uh I'd encourage you to get involved with True Grit Edge. Uh they're, as you can already tell from this podcast, they're extremely caring and and have great skills, can help people with cash flow and all kinds of things and uh in the construction world. And then uh by the way, I also love the name of this podcast, Barn the Boardroom. I mean, it's uh it it's just so creative. I I really appreciate you guys asking me to uh participate today.

SPEAKER_01 43:26

Yeah, thanks for your time.

SPEAKER_03 43:27

Yeah, thanks for your time, and David, we'll talk very, very soon. Thanks so much.

SPEAKER_01 43:31

Thank you. All right, thank you.

SPEAKER_03 43:33

Bye-bye.

SPEAKER_01 43:34

Bye-bye. That is amazing. And what we said at the beginning about getting your little foil your brow, your uh forehead, that's what I meant to say, not foil.

SPEAKER_03 43:44

112 is not a problem.

SPEAKER_01 43:46

Is not a problem, not at all. And because you went from scowl to mind blown within a few minutes.

SPEAKER_03 43:53

I think we can share. I also went to uh tears there for a second too.

SPEAKER_01 43:59

Yeah, yeah. That um wow, so many nuggets out of that, so many lessons. Uh he's amazing. Read his books. Love David's uh there it it's something you could read over and over again. Um and I'm just glad we have a hard copy here in the house, so we'll just keep reading it.

SPEAKER_03 44:19

So I will share this. Um Camille and I, we went to a conference for Camille's work and um hung out with with a few people, right? And uh it was the largest uh construction, Conex constru uh expo. It's every two years, three years, I think. I mean it's it takes a month for them to load it in. They shut down streets, it was awesome. Um, gotta see some tractors, you know, and for me that the I like heavy equipment as well. Uh um it was it was fun for Camille, it was good for her to learn and um learn about construction cash flow. And I think she she I know she walked away from a few things going wow, but we both walked away from David's session going crazy. But we'd reached out to David prior to Was able to connect with him. And was able to connect with him while we were there, and and what was cool was is that he said, Yeah, let's let's let's meet up. And we we sat in the hallway in some chairs and we just we just kind of bounced some ideas off of each other for quite a while. Um but you say this all the time about people. What you just heard is who they really are behind the scenes, that is who he is. And so if you are a he can step in and lead any organization, I've said that about a few people. He's he's on that list in any industry. And um what you just talked about uh, or early what we talked about in his intro about, you know, um what he did with Ditchwich and how he moved up in the organization, totally can see that. But he's true to heart, right? And um I think I think the world of him, like I said, I feel like I've known him for a long time, even though it's only just been a short amount of time.

SPEAKER_01 46:10

Yeah. Amazing. Amazing. And and I kept thinking, um and as I kind of fumbled through that first question, I just kept thinking talk less say more. By the way, we're not gonna edit out that first question that you think you fumbled on.

SPEAKER_03 46:25

I actually think it's really, really good.

SPEAKER_01 46:27

But the whole time I just kept thinking he he's a guy that I mean he'll he'll chat with you about anything, but he's a talk less say more kind of guy because what he tells you is so impactful. It you don't have to get through three hours of fluff to get the nugget out of him. It's it's amazing. He every time we've talked to him, I've walked away with something, and that's the cowboy code, right? It's it's be impactful in what you're trying to say and do, and um, that's him, and that's that's why he's been successful.

SPEAKER_03 46:58

Agreed. With that being said, Camille, I know you wrote it down. You we gotta read we gotta hear it one more time. I am still mind-blown about this. So simple, yet so complex.

SPEAKER_01 47:09

So uh creativity is what occurs on the backside of no.

SPEAKER_03 47:14

So I'm gonna call our teenager and I'm gonna tell her no. And I'm gonna tell her I need her to be creative. How do you think that's gonna go?

SPEAKER_01 47:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 47:22

And and reframe.

SPEAKER_01 47:24

No, like I bet she'll do it.

SPEAKER_03 47:26

I bet she'll do it. It's great. Well, Camille, what's the rest of the day look like?

SPEAKER_01 47:31

It's springtime in the Rockies. I think we said that last year. It's been a year.

SPEAKER_03 47:34

It's been a year.

SPEAKER_01 47:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 47:35

It's congratulations.

SPEAKER_01 47:37

Springtime in the Rockies. Excited.

SPEAKER_03 47:38

Yeah, Barnaber.

SPEAKER_01 47:39

I think we said that on some of our first podcasts. So, not talking about the weather, but it is beautiful outside. We've had early spring. Let's go out and enjoy it. And you know what that means. There's gonna be a gorgeous sunset. It's gonna be a gorgeous sunset.

SPEAKER_03 47:51

Everybody, thanks so much, David. Thank you so, so much. Everybody go pick up his book, do yourself that favor, take that time, be selfish, grab us both his books, sit down and read them and share them. Camilla. Have a great day. Have a great day. We'll see ya.