S2 Episode 7: Conflict Styles: Learning When to Fight, Pause, Mediate, or Walk Away

In this episode of Barn to Boardroom, Cory and Camille take a humorous but thoughtful look at conflict and how people naturally respond under pressure. Using Amanda Ripley’s The Conflict Playbook as a jumping-off point, they unpack four conflict styles: the avoider, the mediator, the fighter, and the conflict entrepreneur. Through personal stories, marriage banter, workplace examples, and even a city bus conflict lesson, they explore how recognizing your default response can help you de-escalate tension, listen better, and choose the right approach for the moment. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hey Camille.

SPEAKER_01 0:01

Hey Corey.

SPEAKER_00 0:02

How's it going?

SPEAKER_01 0:04

Good. On take 16.

SPEAKER_00 0:08

Because last time I did.

SPEAKER_01 0:10

What's uh we restarted this three times. Not 16. I exaggerated.

SPEAKER_00 0:16

But not we're not gonna start it four times, even though I just realized that the ferocious dog does not have its bark collar on. Um so she's gonna she's gonna see a bird in the window and we're all gonna hear it.

SPEAKER_01 0:29

Yeah. That's okay. We'll see. Let's talk fast. Let's talk really fast. Um yeah, I've got uh uh interesting uh concept for you today. What do you think? You you have for anything?

SPEAKER_00 0:44

No. No? Um la the last two or three times you've actually done this to me. Okay, so one time I gotta admit. One time. No. It's been twice. Well, it's it's I think it's been twice. And there's not a lot of good things, there's not there's only one thing that I am you're better than in in all things when it comes to you and I, except for remembering something.

SPEAKER_01 1:13

My your phone, your keys.

SPEAKER_00 1:17

Okay. Good point. Anyway, but uh I forget my phone, I forget my keys, I forget You did you did tell me one time, like I'm gonna interview you about this, but I wasn't really supposed to know about it, but I did. So You lied? I lied. You really don't know about it today, though. Liar. I really don't. So am I up for anything? You're making me nervous.

SPEAKER_01 1:42

Like you told um the like you were a substitute teacher, we should tell that story about you.

SPEAKER_00 1:49

Uh he found the I'm not the substitute teacher, but I did sub for a class one day.

SPEAKER_01 1:54

Oh, yeah, let me take that back. You subbed for a teacher.

SPEAKER_00 1:58

He's a friend of ours. A friend of ours. She's she runs, I think she runs our have we named her our official uh fan club prison.

SPEAKER_01 2:08

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:09

We're gonna have her on here someday.

SPEAKER_01 2:10

Yeah, for sure. Um and you subbed her class, and she teaches fashion design and um way to go, Camille. Well, that's the class that you were subbing in. Oh no, hold on.

SPEAKER_00 2:26

There's a cooking there's a cooking class too that she was home, it was basically home master. She does a leadership class and her she had a child getting married.

SPEAKER_01 2:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:37

And um and a student needed some help. A student needed some help on fashion design. Well no seventh period.

SPEAKER_01 2:44

Yeah, seven, and so she she came up to Corey, a little Chromebook in hand. Little high school Chromebook. Oh, Mr. Meyer, excuse me, Mr. Meyer, can you help me with my fashion design project? Here's my Chromebook. I'm on it.

SPEAKER_00 2:57

And your response was Well, I can't say because now people aren't gonna listen to me. Like, if I try to do anything, they're gonna be like, don't trust that guy.

SPEAKER_01 3:12

Well, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:15

You've really backed me into a corner.

SPEAKER_01 3:18

Anyway, his response was Camille, just be careful. I totally can help you. You probably didn't say totally, that's more something I would say. Um girl from 90s. Um, but I want you to know I am a professional liar for a living. And I will tell you I can help you. But or we can wait for the teacher to come back on Tuesday. And we'll wait for her to come back and then you can help her. What would you like to do? I can lie to you, or we can wait. Okay, I'll wait, Mr. Meyer.

SPEAKER_00 4:02

So can you clear up that I do not lie to people professionally for a living, though? I'm not sure. That was me, just that was just me messing around with her. Well, I thought she I thought she realized I was kidding, but as I said that turn saw the look on her face, I realized that she didn't, you know. So are we talking about lying? Is that what we're doing?

SPEAKER_01 4:23

No, actually, no, we're actually talking about conflict.

SPEAKER_00 4:27

Yeah, I'm out. So I'm out.

SPEAKER_01 4:32

Um I have been listening to the company.

SPEAKER_00 4:34

I have a conflict with this topic.

SPEAKER_01 4:37

I have been listening to um a masterclass by Amanda Ripley.

SPEAKER_00 4:43

You hold on, you just pulled out your iPad and I can see a whole lot of notes.

SPEAKER_01 4:47

I know. And um let me let me preface it and then I'm gonna ask you some questions, okay? Um it's a it's a masterclass called The Conflict Playbook by Amanda Ripley. It's really good. Hey, hold on.

SPEAKER_00 5:03

Why are why are you reading this and asking me about it? Is there an issue? Is there a conflict here?

SPEAKER_01 5:10

Well, if you don't think you are have a type of conflict personality, well then you're probably the conflict entrepreneur.

SPEAKER_00 5:18

Camille, I'm not smart enough to have conflict. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 5:21

That is incorrect because you lie professionally. Just kidding.

SPEAKER_00 5:28

I don't lie professionally.

SPEAKER_01 5:29

I know. Well, I don't know what you told the student. I'm an amateur liar. I'm not a professional liar. Okay, okay. Focus, Corey. Focus. Okay. Conflict.

SPEAKER_00 5:40

I'm locked in.

SPEAKER_01 5:41

Okay. So um she talks about um looping, like listening, replaying when you are presented with an event, right? Like looping through um active listening.

SPEAKER_00 5:57

I never do that. You know, I never replay the event a million times in my head.

SPEAKER_01 6:01

We call it post-game, pregame, post-game at our house.

SPEAKER_00 6:05

I'm really good at it, actually.

SPEAKER_01 6:06

And um a structured listening technique that helps people feel understood and lowers their defensiveness if you can like replay, like you are actually really good at this. You're like, okay, so what you're saying is, and you repeat it back to me.

SPEAKER_00 6:20

I lie professionally.

SPEAKER_01 6:22

Let me lie to you professionally by repeating this back to you. No, figuring out the understory, the issues, not really the you know, issues really the issue. Um, but what I found the most interesting was the four different conflict personality types. So I want you to think, and this may go into a one part, two part if we can't get through everything, but there's four personality types. So I want you to think about what kind of conflict personality are you. And you can be not multiple personalities, don't take that, but you can be um one way at home and one way at work, right? Or in different situations, or you can be a little bit of this one and a little bit of that one, depending on six, seven. Yeah, six, seven. So dumb. So old. That was so 2025. Okay, so there's the avoider.

SPEAKER_00 7:16

I'm usually a couple years behind. The avoider, okay.

SPEAKER_01 7:19

Okay, the avoider, they withdraw.

SPEAKER_00 7:21

Not me.

SPEAKER_01 7:21

Change the subject, delay, difficult conversations, they seek peace.

SPEAKER_00 7:27

Nice. They're nice.

SPEAKER_01 7:28

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 7:29

They're not kind, they're nice.

SPEAKER_01 7:31

Um their strength is if you're an avoider.

SPEAKER_00 7:34

Okay, hold on. I just need to because you I'm looking into your beautiful eyes and I lost track of what we're actually doing. I'm supposed to pick who I am.

SPEAKER_01 7:41

Just think about it. Just listen, just listen, just listen, Corey. Loop listen. Why don't you repeat it back after me after I'm done?

unknown 7:49

Just kidding.

SPEAKER_01 7:50

Okay, the strength if you're an avoider is you can prevent unnecessary escalation and provide space for reflection. The risk is the important issues may never get addressed. Like, I'm a little bit of an avoider at home. Like, I don't want to fight about this. Let's not talk about it anymore. I do that quite a bit. Okay. The mediator is a good idea.

SPEAKER_00 8:12

I want to say a little bit more to that right now, but I won't.

SPEAKER_01 8:15

I feel like Corey's like, I feel like I'm getting painted into a corner. Didn't you just say that a minute ago?

SPEAKER_00 8:19

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:20

Yeah. Okay. Okay, the other one is mediator. It's a person who tries to understand everyone, looks for common ground, helps people communicate. The strength is they build trust and facilitate cooperation. But the risk is you may prioritize harmony over solving the actual problem.

SPEAKER_00 8:40

Yeah, I don't think that's me.

SPEAKER_01 8:41

I'm a little bit more of a mediator at work. I definitely don't avoid at work, but um then there's the fighter. They like to confront issues directly, challenge ideas, yeah, that's me. Pushes for resolution. The strength is it surfaces problems quickly and drives decision. So you're fighting, I'm avoiding. It's just a tango. It's a tang, it's a tango we do.

SPEAKER_00 9:09

We have a great marriage.

SPEAKER_01 9:10

Um, but the risk is it can come across aggressive and it makes other people defensive.

unknown 9:17

What?

SPEAKER_01 9:18

I get really defensive. When you're being a fighter. Okay. The other fourth one is the conflict entrepreneur. This person fuels drama, amplifies division, recruits allies, benefits from ongoing conflict. They kind of thrive on it. The strength is it definitely draws attention to the neglected issues. They feel like they're probably being the savior for the group, right?

SPEAKER_00 9:45

But aren't they negative?

SPEAKER_01 9:47

Well, it often escalates conflict and makes resolutions harder.

SPEAKER_00 9:53

So yeah, I actually did some true grid edge training. I did three or four last week, actually. And all three of them, we actually talked about that. I didn't, I mean, not this not in this wording, but um how interesting interesting, I haven't heard it worded that way. Um but it's it's almost lazy to be that person.

SPEAKER_01 10:30

To be that, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:32

It's an easy way, it's an easy thing to be. Well, I'm gonna go find the problem. I worked with somebody. I worked with somebody several years ago, and they start the day they started, they said to me, and by the way, I'm number three, we've decided, right? Number three did show up after number four said this to me. And then we then I realized I felt like a number two, if you know what I mean, because I'd said this. Okay. So uh, but he said, I come in and I find problems, and I go, Well, do you fix them? And he just kind of gave me a weird blink look, and I thought, hmm. And I just said, Oh, that's I feel really bad for you. But anyway.

SPEAKER_01 11:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:25

They're am I missing what number four is?

SPEAKER_01 11:28

No, no, that's exactly right. Like that, you yes, you you hit the buzzer on that one for sure. Um, and it is, it's the that person that like they thrive on that, right? They well, they always have to be right. They rarely look at other people's opinions. They won't they won't walk a mile in anybody else's shoes. They're right, their way, the only way, right?

SPEAKER_00 11:55

Hey, hold on a second though. Can't we all have birth moments of that though? Because I feel like I can sometimes not walk in someone else's shoes and be quick. Like I one thing I have to always say in in you know, when we talk about run our R in pressing pause is um don't respond, don't you know, don't listen to respond, listen to understand. I think we can all do that.

SPEAKER_01 12:22

Well, and I think when you're talking about running your R, you're you're just how you respond, the quality of your response. The quality so this is this to me is a key factor in that situation. So you're presented with an event. Is it truly a conflict? Is it is there gonna be a right and a wrong? Is there is is there gonna be escalated emotions on how you respond? How do you want to respond? Do you want to be the fighter? Do you want to be the mediator? Do you want to be the avoider? Are you the one creating the events all the time because you are an entrepreneur, conflict entrepreneur, right? And so to in her class, she discussed that, you know, one of the if I grabbed all the concepts correctly, that to be that successful in conflict resolution is to be kind of a little bit of everybody, maybe not so much the conflict doctor, remember, but be the fighter when you need to be the fighter, be the avoider when you need to avoid it, to stop it, to press pause, to give it a big break. Maybe it's not, I'm completely avoiding it, but we are gonna avoid it for a minute while we de-escalate some of the situation, right? Mediate when you need to mediate, but by recognizing who your opponent is, whether they're gonna just be the avoider, um, or if they're the conflict entrepreneur all the time, sometimes you need to show up more for those guys than you do other people to understand why they're bringing these issues to the forefront all the time. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_00 14:05

Yeah, no, I yeah, no, it makes sense. I wonder is um thinking about Leslie Lyons, she talks a lot about, in fact, we're gonna re-release her podcast here over the summer. But she talks about learned behavior. And she's always she's always talking about learned behavior and uh how how do you how do we is it just our personality that fits us into one of these four? No is it learned.

SPEAKER_01 14:37

Well, probably a mix of everything.

SPEAKER_00 14:39

Because I'd actually say that you're highly number three as well.

SPEAKER_01 14:42

In s in certain situations. More than, well, okay, maybe I do have to be right a lot, but I didn't say it by the way. But it but when needed, need to fight, right? Like, but when but I f I do find myself more at home being an avoider than I do at work. Because if I avoid this situation, it doesn't fix it.

SPEAKER_00 15:08

So what am I, Camilla Home? I'll H you pick that.

SPEAKER_01 15:13

Yeah, so really her the goal or what she points out in the master class, Amanda Ripley does, is that um the goal is not to label um a person to specifically one style because people show up differently, right? So you're not always an avoider, you're not always a fighter, you're not always a number three. Yeah, you're not you're not always that. But and and the truly the goal is if you're seeing, if you're feeling a conflict and you can understand who's in the game, right? What what their what their go-to is, is that maybe you can prevent it from happening, right? If if I know you're a fighter, then my goal is to like de-escalate you from fighting. If you know that I'm typically an avoider, you're gonna want to pull that out of me a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 16:06

I don't I mean, I don't I I think this is good, but I I mean I don't I'm not someone that likes to fight. Most people don't. Um so I wouldn't label myself as as a fighter. Um, but I wouldn't label and I wouldn't label you as an avoider. You're not you don't you really don't avoid, so I'm I'm I'm having a little bit of a struggle saying, you know.

SPEAKER_01 16:31

But what do you default to when you're under pressure?

SPEAKER_00 16:34

Like so the at the end she gives something with melted cheese on it.

unknown 16:39

Right.

SPEAKER_01 16:41

I mean she she gives an example. I mean, like you hear mama bear terms or you know, don't mess with this, I get prickly, or you know, like is that really your go-to? Is that really you know, or is it how you were brought up? Like, we don't have to be the product of our environment, too. I mean, um the example that she is at the end is they're sitting on a city bus, she's with her son, two men behind them start fighting. So she gets up and yells at these men like what like there's a kid here, like knock it off, like they're gonna go to blows on this city bus. And she then later later interviews the bus driver um because her son got so upset about this confrontation. Like he ends up yelling at her afterwards, and so she she meets with the the bus driver, and um he said, There's a few things that I do specifically as a bus driver that I've learned all over the years when there's conflict because you know he's driving the bus, there's lots of people on there. He one pulls over, opens all the doors because in a conflict situation, people need to feel like they can escape. Then he gives two choices. One, we're gonna either like what's the problem, try to identify it, fix it. We're gonna one, either let you resolve it, or we're gonna wait here. I'm gonna pull over, everybody's gonna be 30 minutes late on their transit while I call someone in to help fix this situation.

SPEAKER_00 18:18

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_01 18:19

What do you want to do? And and he was able to master this congo. I mean, he's driving this big bus, it's a risk with lots of people, they're tired, they're going to work, they're late, all these emotions. What how does he handle conflict? So it's how do you show up, right? What tools do you have in your toolkit to help with conflict in events when they happen?

SPEAKER_00 18:42

Well, the bus driver has all the control.

unknown 18:44

Yeah. Really?

SPEAKER_00 18:45

For the most part, right? Can shut the bus down.

unknown 18:47

Right.

SPEAKER_01 18:47

But he's one guy. And there's a lot of passengers.

SPEAKER_00 18:51

Right. Interesting.

SPEAKER_01 18:54

Anyway, so it's it's excellent. It's totally worth the time. I think it made me think about me personally, like, is it really good that I'm a voider? Am I solving anything? When I say, Corey, I don't want to deal with this right now. Like, we're not fighting about this. Is it really like then we just it pushes it down the road, right?

SPEAKER_00 19:18

I'm perfect, I guess. Mic draw.

SPEAKER_01 19:19

Let's go.

unknown 19:22

Corey.

SPEAKER_00 19:23

No, no, no, no. Like I I uh I've had to I've had to work on not being quick to go, yeah, we're not gonna do that. Or um I I d like I said, I I don't consider my s I I think intensity um sometimes can come across as a fighter. And I I know with age I've I've ch I would say I've softened my intensity. Um I think I surprise people nowadays when they're like, oh wait, hold on. He you know, he's not gonna he's not gonna take this on, you know, or take this one on and or choose this or battle this. But um I think we need to continue when we look at conflict is um look in look inside of each each of ourselves and go can we be kind? Yeah, right, right, and um not you know not avoid, but not fight, but um not be negative. And so you're right, and she and she is correct too, in that can you find a little balance in all four?

SPEAKER_01 20:28

Right. What what is your go-to and is it the best for the situation? And if it's not, can you step out of it? Yeah, really that's what it comes down to, right? Right. Can I step out of always being a fighter? If you find yourself always fighting, do you need to take new hormone medicine?

SPEAKER_00 20:45

Or no comment again. Or and I didn't touch the thermostat today, just so you're wearing.

SPEAKER_01 20:54

Oh my gosh. That is I don't avoid that one at all. Nope.

SPEAKER_00 21:00

Number she's a number three when it comes to thermostat lately.

SPEAKER_01 21:03

If I walk over to that thermostat and it's above 71, heads rolling. No, for all you ladies out there.

SPEAKER_00 21:11

Yep, 71 we agreed on. That's where we can be.

SPEAKER_01 21:15

That's where our conflict resolution done.

SPEAKER_00 21:17

Right.

SPEAKER_01 21:18

Our tango works.

SPEAKER_00 21:19

Well, Camille, thank you for teaching us about conflict. And again, what's the name of the podcast?

SPEAKER_01 21:25

Um, it's a it's a masterclass, and so you have to you have to sign up for masterclass. Um uh it's the conflict playbook by Amanda Ripley. Okay, excellent. I highly recommend it.

SPEAKER_00 21:38

So um it's my favorite time of year. First day of summer hits, and uh then I love July. July's great.

SPEAKER_01 21:46

Because we actually truly get to enjoy the sunsets because they come later.

SPEAKER_00 21:50

They come later. They come later. And the cows are all at summer pastures, so it's just kind of a relax time, get ready for fall, winter when they come back. But enjoy your sunsets, and we will see you next time. We appreciate you listening. We'll see you soon.

SPEAKER_01 22:06

See ya.