What Happens When Life Breaks You? | Episode 26 ft. David Fleshman

In this episode of the TLW Podcast, Jonathan Pixley and Dr. Sean Owens sit down with attorney and sports law specialist David Fleshman for one of the most honest conversations we’ve had yet.

David shares his journey from standout high school athlete to LSU basketball walk on, and how a major knee injury reshaped his path early on. But this episode goes much deeper than sports. David opens up about walking through the devastating loss of his father to suicide while in college, the long road of grief that followed, and what it looks like to keep moving forward when life changes forever.

This conversation is about resilience, faith, leadership, family, and the power of simply showing up for people in their darkest moments. It is a powerful reminder that pain may change you, but it does not have to define you.

In this episode, we cover:

• Overcoming a major injury and shifting goals
• Lessons learned as an LSU basketball walk on
• Losing a parent to suicide and processing grief
• The importance of faith and community in hard seasons
• Leadership, service, and building a meaningful life

This is a deep one. If you have ever walked through loss, carried pain, or needed the reminder to keep going, this episode is for you.

#TrainLeadWin #SuccessMindset #PurposeDriven #Leadership #Podcast #Entrepreneurship #FailureToSuccess #GrowthMindset #PersonalDevelopment

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Welcome to the TLW Podcast. I am Jonathan Pixley here with my co-host, Dr. Sean Owens. Dr. Owens, welcome back as always, Coach. Good to see you, man. Yep. We got uh our other partner, Jace Augustus with JCB Media behind the scenes running the show that we certainly could not run on our own. Uh so love to have him here as well. And as always, all of our guests are super special. Um, but this guy sitting next to us is um probably a little bit uh special in a different way because of the relationship that we've had for as long as we have had it, going all the way back uh to the Dunham School when he was uh an outstanding athlete, uh, along with Dr. Owens as well, by the way. And um, and then just the relationships have continued to develop since then. Uh David Fletchman, welcome, David. We're so excited to have you here with us. Thanks, coach. Excited to be here. Yep. So I'm gonna give a little background on David and uh and then we're gonna get right into it like we always do with all of our guests, because they're not here to hear us talk. They're here to hear us ask you questions and you answer. Hopefully they'll be here. Hopefully they'll be there. Uh David grew up in Baton Rouge, uh, attended the Donham School, like I said, was an outstanding athlete uh in both uh basketball and football. Um there are those who would argue that uh you were a better high school football player than basketball player. I would argue against that for sure. But uh the fact that you, you know, were viewed in that light meant that you were a pretty accomplished all-around athlete. Had a um a knee injury his senior year in high school, very first football game of the season. I can't remember if it was Jambree or just the first regular season game, but I know it was right there at the beginning. Uh and most people would have thought, okay, well, back then when you tore your ACL, you were just done for 12 months. And to watch you come back from that and be with us really the last, I want to say about third, maybe half to third of the basketball season, uh, and kind of flipped our season around basically on one leg was first of all amazing to watch and be a part of. But um, it also defines or defined who you are for sure, um, in every aspect of your life. That led you to then walking on at LSU as a basketball player. Uh, even though prior to the injury, there's no question you were a Division I scholarship caliber athlete uh on a basketball court without question and would have signed a scholarship somewhere else. But God has plans uh for all of us. Um you know, our viewers have heard my story with the same knee injury, right? Um, and so the the the amazing thing is had you not gone to LSU, you may not be sitting in this seat right here. You may be somewhere else, you know, across the country, maybe even across the world, right? Um law school at LSU, and um then you started your career at Rodell Parsons here in Baton Rouge, and then went you were there for eight years, correct? And then you went to uh Brazil, Saxon Wilson in 2019, and you have been a partner for remind me how long? This point uh 23, I think is what you were talking about.

SPEAKER_01 3:15

22, 23, sometime around there.

SPEAKER_02 3:17

So became a partner pretty quickly uh after joining and um has been involved in many different areas of law, but I think the thing in Baton Rouge that people would would talk about you, and now the differentiator is sports law. And ever since the NIL world was born in 2021, you've really taken that thing and run with it. And I mean, there are people who call you, oh, he's he's the NIL lawyer, he's the NIL attorney, right? Um, which you're more than that, but that's what you're seeing for. You were 40 under 40, uh Baton Rouge business supports 40 under 40 list two years ago, right? I think so. And um just have you've accomplished a whole heck of a lot in a short period of time. Uh so again, I'm gonna I'm done talking now. We're gonna train.

SPEAKER_01 4:06

No, look, I love I love this. Yeah, I'll just sit here and listen to this. Yeah, you can get on.

SPEAKER_04 4:10

This is our viewers know that I don't normally dress up like this. I only do this for David questions.

SPEAKER_01 4:15

Or unless you have a political rally to go to uh afterwards.

SPEAKER_02 4:18

We could talk about that after this. No, we didn't know if Dr. Owens was either going to a July 4th political rally or um had something to put up with.

SPEAKER_04 4:26

I'm gonna tell you right now when your email address is the presidentist, you have to have a year to go along with it. There you go.

SPEAKER_01 4:32

Back in 1776. That's exactly right, man. Um, Pimp, I mean, uh first of all, it's it's an honor to be uh on the podcast with with both of you. I've listened to a lot of them and um it you know, shocked to be uh a guest on with all of the the quality guests that you've had. Um you know, but and and it takes me back a lot. I mean, both of you have meant a lot to me as well, and uh especially at an early age, um, you know, and you talk about the knee injury, uh, there was no other option was you know trying to set new goals that that you know, I wasn't prepared, no one's prepared for that. And you kind of think that your senior year is going to be uh your best year and you're you you prepped for that and you've been working your you know working your your tail off. Uh but but being there with you having having gone through that yourself, you know, I can remember it immediately just we shifted goals. And it was now how how can we get back, how quick can we get back in a way that is is a safe way to play. Um and I remember you know you giving me drills. We would I would sit in a chair. Um, that's when I started to lift, actually lift weights and be able to put on a little muscle um at that at that time. But you know, having you and having the support of of Dunham, um, you know, it it it was a good reminder that the ball is going to end at some point for everybody. And I I I think I knew that before, but um I certainly wasn't ready for it to be uh you know taken away at that time. But having you having um you know Miss Coach Pixley and Mind Jim and a lot of just just having role models there uh guide me through that process. There was no other option other than shift your goals, control what you can control, and you're gonna come back better and stronger if you if you stick with it. And this is an opportunity, it's not a loss.

SPEAKER_02 7:05

But one of those names uh double in the game basically on one meme and one of the doubles was in the field. I think he had like twelve skills in the game, which was like incredible. I don't remember going through watching the film Italian assassin. I can't believe it. This dude just did this on one day. And again, it's a testament too. You just didn't make any excuses, right? I mean, our our mantra forever was no excuse to do the work, and and I think you were uh definitely a trigger to that.

SPEAKER_01 7:35

Yeah. No, I I mean uh we in in stats, we we didn't know our stats really at at all. I mean, there was uh I I would I would ask you to go fact check that. I'm not sure it's uh it's ever been, but I just didn't tell you. No, I you know I remember being so excited just to get back on the floor, just to be on the team, like just to to be able to get out there and compete. And it really helped me understand just how much of a blessing every opportunity to wear a jersey and to compete, especially with your friends. Yeah. Um, you know, and and that's something that uh, you know, it's just a lesson, it's a life lesson. And that's that's the beauty of sports in general. I mean, while you're coaching us basketball, and I'm learning a lot about the technical side of basketball, that I think very well prepared me to be at at LSU and to learn the other teams' offenses. You know, I had a good, really good base, and and that I think a lot of my teammates did not have. While you were teaching us that, you were teaching us life. And I think, you know, I don't remember thinking that you just thought you were teaching us basketball. I remember thinking he's teaching us life, he is pushing us beyond our capabilities. Um, he believes in us more than we believe in ourselves. And if we're gonna have a shot to win, we have to have that attitude. And those are lessons, and again, I'm just uh I'm so thankful to have had uh coaches that that believed in us, that cared about us. And when we knew how much you cared, I mean I remember you uh you were I I would say you probably softened up in your in your in your later years. I've heard that a few times, you know. But Jace might not agree with that. Yeah, he's we're smiling over there, but um, but but you could get on us harder because we knew how much you cared about us. You know, you would open up the gym uh in the morning. Um, you know, you would you know give me the keys at times. I'd stop by by your house and and get the keys to the gym to go up there and shoot. And probably wasn't supposed to do that. Yeah, uh I think the the prescriptive periods run on any claim uh there. I don't think you're gonna get in trouble for that. But uh just we uh we understood how much you cared about us, and and I don't think a lot of a lot of guys have that with their coaches. And uh that's always uh stood out to me was you could get on on us hard because we knew how much you cared about us and cared about our development as young men. And that's uh that's that's an example that um I've always I've always taken from that. And Coach Tibb was was very similar to that. He would push us and push us, um, but we knew where it was coming from. Right. It was coming from a good place. Right. Well, I appreciate that.

SPEAKER_04 10:04

David, I'd like to talk for a minute about your transition from uh playing high school ball to college ball, uh walk on at LSU three years, is that correct? Two. Two? Okay. Can you describe for us kind of uh what that experience was like and uh any of the specific uh things that you took from that experience that you can now put into your professional life every single day with all the work that you do?

SPEAKER_01 10:25

Yeah, that's a that's a great question. Um you know the the first thing I'll say is that um, you know, it was made pretty clear as a walk-on, you're really not gonna have much of a shot to play. And I kind of heard that out of one ear uh and said, Yeah, okay, all right, well let's let's just see. Game on. Yeah. Um, but it became very obvious in the first few pickup games that uh the talent that is that I'm playing with is incredible. I mean, some of the best in the country. Um and while you always still have that work ethic and you say, look, I just gotta, you know, keep keep growing, the speed of the game was the thing that stood out to me the most. I mean, the gaps would close a lot quicker when you make a pass to the wing. Uh the length, you know, the the court shrinks out there. Um, you know, uh that all I remember just being just stunned by the speed of the game. Um, you know, so that was that was a pretty eye-opening experience. But um, you know, it's also it's not something where you're really going to school like like at Dunham, where we're playing multiple sports together and we know each other's, you know, um sisters and and brothers and and families. And um it was just a it was a really different environment that I was really welcomed into and always was really appreciative of the locker room guys. Um you know, uh it was I I started to understand my role on in that group and in that locker room really had nothing to do with on the court um during the game. You know, practice was um was really the the focus. I would work with John Trelore, who was our assistant coach, who coached with Bobby Knight. Uh, he would get us to practice early. We would learn the other team's key sets, um, and we would pride ourselves in running them better than the other team would run them. So, you know, I but I I always thought at some, you know, at some point maybe I can make the the the turn into actually contributing more. Um but I also understood and respected my role. And I'll say this about the about the guys, they also respected that role, and that's what I really didn't know going in. Um, you know, I'd played with a lot of those guys before, you know, Garrett Temple, Tyrus Thomas, Glenn Davis. I mean, I knew those guys for a long time. Um, I'd played them in AAU, um, had a lot of respect for them, and they had a lot of respect for me, which um which really makes it it easier to understand your role. And my role was not to be on the court uh scoring points, it was to push them as hard as I could uh into to be everywhere they turned, I was gonna be right there in a stance trying to you know push them or uh you know fight through the screens. All of the little things that I would say I was extremely well prepared for. Um one reason because Coach Pixley was a great coach. The other reason was because Coach Pixley also played for my coach for Coach Brady. So a lot of these drills we had we've we've been doing at Dunham for three years, you know, um some of the box out drills and some of these, uh certainly the conditioning. Uh Pixley didn't get too creative on that. Uh maybe we had a little bit more time than we did uh at at LSU um you know than we did at Dunham. But I'll tell you the thing, when I think back to the that that time period, I think it really helped me understand the significance of every player on a team, whether that's a trial team, whether that's part of a dental practice, uh, whether it's part of a podcast. I mean, you recognize that when we we first started Pix, you you two can't produce this and get this out on the internet without having someone who is not on screen, not getting credit for this, and and not sitting in the driver's seat right now, but he is absolutely instrumental to making this thing happen. Um so it's amazing to me what you can accomplish as a group of individuals when you don't care who gets the credit. Yeah. And we had a lot of those guys, you know, um, there was a lot of guys that were taking a back seat. You know, Darnell Lazar is one that I think about often. Um, you know, he would start some games and then, you know, he would maybe just be the first guy off the bench, and maybe some games he wouldn't play. That's hard to balance uh if you don't have the right maturity or uh you you you if you're focused more on yourself, it's a problem.

SPEAKER_03 14:30

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 14:31

Um and a lot of teams they have those problems, and and that really splinters. We didn't have that. We cared collectively about succeeding and doing the best that we could as a unit. I love that. And uh and I'd say I think about that often. Um when I've got you know younger attorneys that I'm working with or part of a trial team, uh, they're just as important and their voice matters, and um you know, and and that's so I think about that a lot, and I think about also just the the relationships that are formed uh in those moments. I mean, those are some grueling times when you're running, you know, Tiger Stadium, uh, you know, thousand-yard shuttles there in the heat um after after workout. I mean, that there's a lot of character building in there, and and and I love that because you find out what you're made out of. Um not that different than you trying to push us to run in high school uh and do long jumps. Remember that run around the lake we did? And the and try to get me to run four miles around the lake. Sean used to say, we're not running four miles, even though it's four miles around. We're not running four miles, we're running two miles, but then we're gonna get back home. So we might as well just run the last which is which is an important mind shift.

SPEAKER_04 15:36

You turn it around, you're going the same distance, I think.

SPEAKER_01 15:38

But but the transition was um, you know, I had no idea what I was walking into. And part of me felt the tug to try to go somewhere that I knew I would have a better shot to play. Yeah. But I also knew that this was gonna come to an end. I knew I would, I've never thought I was going to the NBA. You know, I I've never, you know, I grew up in a house that um my parents weren't athletes. They didn't really, they weren't pushing athletics. Um, it was something I I naturally loved, and they were so thankful. My mom and both my mom and my dad were so thankful to have people who poured into me and invested in me from A from Ricky Blanton at an early age, um, you know, to Pixley and Piper and Thrower, uh, because they had nothing to offer and they were just very supportive of that. Um, so I I I knew that it was going to end at some point, and I knew that I I wanted to go to LSU um and to be a part of the team uh I was really excited about, but um, but it's I I just think back to those those locker rooms and those moments, and they're really special times with any team, especially when you have success.

SPEAKER_02 16:40

Yeah. It's a great question. So obviously we've covered the knee injury, right? And and that was a traumatic experience, but it's one that you you did bounce back from and you made the most of. You had something else happen in college, and I and I asked you yesterday via text, I said, is this is it okay if we cover this, right? And you said absolutely. Um which I expected you to say, but it's still it's something that needs to be asked, in my opinion. And your father passed away uh while you were in college at 2008. And um when that happened, obviously that was a devastating experience. I remember coming over to the house uh the night of I I believe it was the night of, and um and and basically just sitting there, and and there were other people there, obviously, who meant a lot to you. And to watch you deal with that in the moment, the way that you dealt with it as a what 21, 22-year-old kid, right? Um was incredible to me because your father was an attorney. And most people would go, would use that and say, Okay, I'll never do that. And we've talked about this, but I I I'd love for our viewers to hear um just kind of your experience with that, and then what caused you to decide to stay down that path.

SPEAKER_01 18:03

Yeah, um and and and one of the things uh it's a it was a very dull dark day, and a lot of times the way in my mind, the way I think about it, there was kind of a a David before that that day, and there was a David after. It was one of those just um just events that um, you know, just it's still there's haunting aspects of it um to me. But one of the things that stands out to me on that day were was was you being there and giving me a big hug, you know, and it's also um, you know, I I loved my dad. I loved uh being around my dad. Um I admired him a lot. We were very different from a I love sports. He didn't he used to say he hated PE. Um, you know, uh he was at every game. I never we never had that dreaded ride home where he's criticizing me or telling me, you know, you need to cut to the lane harder or you need to work on this or that. He would just, I'd look up in the stands and he was just there smiling. And I always greatly appreciated that about him. Um and in fact, in football, you know, he would sometimes ask me, um, you know, David, why why do they throw a flag in the the fourth quarter and say, well, dad, when one guy starts running before the others, that's you know, that's a false start. Right. You know, but it was he just he enjoyed that I enjoyed it and he was there, but I just loved being around him and um and admired him so much. And um, you know, and and for him to uh especially you know passing uh through suicide. I mean suicide is a it's a really tough thing to discuss. And and I I appreciated you opening that, you know, asking me if I'd be willing to talk about this, because I don't talk about it a ton. Um, and I probably we I probably should talk about it more than than what I do, but um, you know, it it's just it leaves it leaves you just with this this pain in your heart. Um, this what could you have done differently? What did you miss? And um, and that's a really difficult thing to to struggle with. But there was also immediate closure. I can tell you that from uh, you know, he didn't just not come home one night. Uh, it was over. And I knew that very um, you know, I knew that in the instant. Um, and I I I wouldn't say I was handling it very well, you know. I I would um having guys like you uh come wrap your arms around me and and and Donna to be there, uh it's always stood out to me and meant so much to me uh that I often feel like in those moments we all we don't know what to say in those moments. Right. There is no book you can read that says here's what you should what you should probably say in these moments. And so what we as humans, I think, typically do is we just shy away from it. It's awkward, it's uncomfortable. Instead of stepping into that uncomfortableness and showing up, and you don't have to say a damn thing. Just being there is what stuck with me. That was 18, 18 years ago. Um, so you know, I I at that point I was just applying to law school. Um, and I just started really talking to my dad about law and his practice. And I had I had um I was a runner at at his law firm, um, you know, the firm that he worked at. And so I was starting to have some of these real adult conversations with him and really getting to know him, which, you know, honestly was one of the biggest blessings about you know only playing for two years as opposed to all four years, um, was that I got to spend a lot of time with him when I was working at Taylor Porter as a runner, where we would go get lunch together, we'd see each other on a routine basis. I would ask him about how he and mom met. I would, you know, it was just kind of coming into this relationship of uh getting to know him as a man and unless it's just a father son relationship. And um, and so I, you know, I decided not to shy away from that. Um, you know, and and maybe I should have, you know, I there's a lot of times in law school it was. Really tough because he did very well in law school. He was top of his class, um, went to work at a great firm. Um, you know, it was seven months later after that incident that I started at LSU Law, which is where he was. And so all of these little things would remind me of him constantly. He was probably not the best decision to dive right into that. Um, but I also knew I needed to dive into that more now than ever because there is no no no one helping. Um, my mom wasn't working. Um, you know, she had been retired. Um, and you know, I just I went into the mode of how can I I I need to to to help my sister and my mom. And and I remember the law school admissions director calling me and saying, Look, you you've gotten in. So I hadn't gotten in at the time you passed. It was several months later, and they said, but look, we want to just let you know you can defer if you need to take some time. And I remember thinking, defer? We gotta we gotta get going on this. I need to I need to get a job and I need to to there was just a lot of uncertainty and a drive there to you you need to get you there was a pre-David that's an innocent, and then there was a post-David that that just uh I would say just had kind of a hardened heart at that at that point. Um and and really every relationship that you have when you go through something like that is shaken. I mean, you question everything. Um and you know, in a lot of those moments, that's when you go back to those tough times. Um, you know, one of the best lessons that I've ever learned through sports is control what you can control. I can't control how the ref is going to call these things. Now, you might have a little bit more control over that as a coach, but I can't. Um I can control how I respond to him calling a real you know soft foul. I only got five of these. I can't, I can't give those up. And so um, you know, I tried to focus on those things. What can I control in these moments? I can't bring him back. Um, you know, I can I can help around the house. I can, you know, changing light bulbs and doing that, you know, and and trying to stop by at my mom's and try to be there for her. But um, I would say on the outside, you know, it's off it's it's like the duck that it's it's in the water, you've heard that, where you know it looks all cool, calm and collected on the on the on the surface, but underneath it's it's um it's chaotic. Yeah. And um, you know, but it but it was that was definitely a big moment. Um and you also learn through that process that you become part of a fraternity that you never signed up for, and how many other people that you're around and that you you interact with who have also um you know been, I'd say, you know, survived a loved one um, you know, that that's been lost through suicide. And and that's it's not a great club to be in, but it's also you you you can relate to people and you can relate to people who who have experienced some some serious loss and just be there with them, wrap your arms around them, let them know that it is gonna be you are going to survive, the sun's gonna come up. Um, you know, but but that that's helpful in those moments. And I and I I'll never forget you being there. And it was definitely night of. I mean, um and I don't remember a whole lot of what was said, but and and it doesn't really matter, but it I remember that you were there, and that's always stood out to me.

SPEAKER_02 25:14

And and you brought up something, you know, my my brother uh recently lost his one of his sons, and uh is the biggest tragedy in our family's history, right? Um and I remember going through like being there a few hours after it happened, and just sitting there, and we sat there and and he he talks to to heal, which obviously that's not the time to heal, but my point is that's what he was doing. And we sat and we listened, and um I'll never forget how many times I would have friends of ours reach out to me, reach out to me instead of him. I obviously didn't know what to say to him and say, Man, I don't even know what to say. I said, But that's what you say. And you just say, Look, I don't have the words and I'm here if you need anything. And I know that I know that I probably really can't help you, but I'm here in any way that I can be and that's it. And I think that's a great point that you brought up. And it's a lesson that that you know, that's not the time for advice. That's not the time for direction, that's not the time for any of those things. It's it's time just to sit and listen if if there's something to be said, and you're not the one to say it. That's right.

SPEAKER_01 26:36

Yeah, no, and and look, it's something I do often now. I mean, when anytime I feel that uncomfortable, oh man, I can't, I don't I can't believe something happened. I don't I'd like to reach out to them. I don't know what to say. That's always my cue of reach out. Don't worry about what you're saying, reach out on their worst day. And that's that's it's kind of a motto that you know it's real easy to call someone to congratulate them on 40 under 40 or you know, congratulations, starting a new practice, or becoming an aim part, whatever it is. Those are easy, but I don't want people around me and and to only hear from me on their best day. That's right. I want them to hear from me on their worst day. Yes, and that that doesn't, I'm I'm not gonna give them some sage advice, you know. And I and and I've I've been asked to go to lunch with people who have you know just lost someone from suicide. And so and I first thing I tell them is look, I don't, I'm not a trained, you know, I I don't have any background in this. And I'm not here to offer you any advice. I'm here to let you know that I'm here for you. Yeah. And I know that you're struggling, and there's gonna be good days and there's gonna be bad days. And you can call me on any of those days. Yeah, and I'll be here if you need me to be here. Um, and there's no no hour of the day that you can't reach out to me. I'm I'm here for you. Um, but it's uncomfortable because they look at you like you're gonna offer some like you've got the answers, you know. And I remember someone, and and you know, uh of course people say a lot of uh dumb things when they're uncomfortable, and those situations are are I'm sure you heard several of those That's incredible. Um, that you know, don't worry about the sun's gonna come tomorrow. You know, what did you say? Really? Um, but but someone told me that time heals all wounds, and I was just you know, I just had to do everything I could just not to just really just die, just really, but and of course they don't mean to they don't mean that, but I never it was a lesson I never tell someone that time heals it. The wound is there, it'll always be there. The only thing I'd say is that you you you learn to live with it in a different in a way, but there is no healing of the wound. Um, there's other joyous events and and like having you know having our first child. First of all, you know, meeting Lauren, marrying Lauren, having our first child together. I mean, there's events like that that make it easier to live with because your your heart's expanding in a way, but there's always there's always a punch and there's always a hole there. Um, and it doesn't, it's not healed with time. It's just you learn it each day to get up uh and to to think more positive about it, to get out of the negative and the the dark side of it, to talk positively about him. Um, you know, those are those are the things that you learn how to cope with and deal with. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:15

Thank you very much for being willing to share that. I know that's not an easy situation, but uh like pretty much everything else that you deal with, you handle that about like we would have expected you to. So I appreciate that.

SPEAKER_01 29:26

I I appreciate it. Um and and look, I I've I it is a very serious thing. I think we've gotten a lot better with the stigma of of depression. Um, you know, it but it is happening, there's every everyone has somebody in their life that uh and and look, let me tell you something about my dad. I even I knew he had depression. I'm not sure I really knew what it was. Uh never imagined in a million years that he would take his own life. Right. I mean, it was such a shock. Um, and I would say most of the time that's how it happens. Yeah. And, you know, I also from that, I every attorney I'm dealing with, every person I come across, I'm assuming that they have are dealing with something and um and and try to give them the same grace that God gives us um, you know, each day. Uh and and I just there's attorneys that I've I've dealt with that I find out five months later they've they've lost their their newborn or whatever, and my heart just breaks for them in those moments. But everybody you're dealing with has has experienced the pain. That's right. And um, and that's where we, if we come together and wrap our arms around each other and we make each other understand none of us are perfect. Um we we make mistakes every single day. We stop, we can stop fooling the world. You're not fooling anybody when you act like you're perfect and then you don't have any warts. Um, we all do, uh, but we all have pain. And the best way to to address that or deal with it is with each other and to talk through, talk through that with other people who maybe don't understand what it's like to go through what you're going through. Um, but I know what it's like to to go through pain, and I'm here for you. Yeah, and and that that's the power of that uh and open up that door is really uh an important one that I think about often. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 31:12

David, um, yeah, like you said, thank you so much for sharing that. Um I'd like to for a second talk a little bit about your involvement with LSU. Um all right, so you're president for LSU uh National L Club. You've been involved with LSU's um uh Hall of Fame committee, and then the Council on Athletes as well. Is that correct? Yeah, all right. So your involvement that takes up a significant amount of your time. Uh is there anything specifically you can tell us about why uh LSU athletics in general is so important to you? Obviously, you're an athlete there, but I know there's gotta be something deeper than that.

SPEAKER_01 31:47

Yeah, so I I just uh I'm so grateful for the opportunity to be a part of uh a team at LSU. I mean, I I didn't quite understand uh the significance it would have and the direction of my life. I mean, I was in law school uh my second semester, I get a notice that I'm receiving a scholarship that's reserved for former letter winners at LSU. A former football player who was an attorney set up a scholarship fund. And I remember being so moved. Here I am, you know, and again, I didn't score. I'm not I'm not an all-American, I'm not a contributor, uh, you know, I'm I'm a walk-on. Um, and I'm still benefiting from the the decision I made to be a small part of a of one team at LSU. And it meant so much to me um getting to know other athletes. Uh, you know, and and so what I love about the L Club, so the L Club is just uh it's a it's an association for former letter winners. And so there's about 9,800 former letter winners that are alive today. That's across all sports. We have a board of 24 uh with all sports represented. Um it's incredible to hear what our letter winners are doing across the United States, across our state, and across the world. Um they across sports, across generations, you know. I mean, some of these relationships, that's the strength of what we have at LSU is the relationships. And so we at the L Club want all of our letter winners, whether they were all Americans or walk-ons, uh, to feel like that it is a place for them to come. We're not asking for money, you know, it's a small membership fee. Um, but it's it's it's really incredible the amount of things and also the amount of pain and and you know, that's as president, kind of been more attuned with all of our letter winners are going through all of the daily uh, you know, the struggles that we see in life. Um, you know, Marie Ferdinand uh Harris and and Cedric Harris, she was a former um basketball player, Hall of Famer, uh went to WNBA, um, and her husband Cedric Harris played played baseball. They lost their 14-year-old son a couple years ago um in a in a four-wheeler accident. Um, you know, our our letter winners are just like the population. They are struggling equally. Um, what are we doing as an L club to wrap our arms around them in that time instead of just highlighting their accomplishments or being part of Final Four teams or SEC championships? And it's been really we have an incredible board, and that's what I'm really motivated to do is to let everyone know how much we care about them, regardless if they went pro, regardless if they won a championship.

SPEAKER_04 34:24

Like the actual individual selves.

SPEAKER_01 34:25

And there's a lot of struggle, and I think Pix, you probably, you know, I mean all of us can recognize that. I mean, we at some to some degree we all identify as being athletes at some point in your life. Sure. And at some point, you're not gonna do that anymore. But if and and I I wouldn't say that we've made our identity about that. Um, but a lot of these, these, these guys have made their identity. That's all they've done their entire life is get into a pool at 4 30 a.m. And and that's that's been their importance to their family, their community. And when that's gone, how are they making that next transition?

SPEAKER_04 34:56

I've I've been fascinated if we talk about um the number of Olympians that face major depressive episodes when the Olympics are over because when your life is so hyper-fixated around this one specific thing, and then that's gone and that's taken from you, it makes you question a lot.

SPEAKER_01 35:10

Yeah, and everybody at some degree, and some of the best athletes have maybe a harder time doing that. Yeah um, you know, and and I would say the more popular, the more success that you have on a on a big stage, the harder it is to kind of wean off of that. Um, because then you're just someone who doesn't really even have a degree. You've got some money, you know, hopefully if you went the pro route, but the vast majority of players, they didn't make it big. There's a lot of some people have a lot of regret about their time at LSU, they have a lot of disappointment. Um, other people are really, you know, uh cherish their time there. But we're trying to bring everyone back here to say we want, we we are glad that you're here. We want to celebrate what you did here or your engagement here. Um, this isn't a piece to raise funds. That's TAF's role. If you want to, if you've got a lot of money and you want to go donate there, go go donate there. We want you to understand that we care about about you and where you are and what you're doing now and and today. I love that.

SPEAKER_02 36:07

So, David, we're gonna transition into and we want to get your take on this. We we've started doing this with guests. Um, TLW operates uh everything that we do based on five pillars. Okay. I'm gonna list them for you, and then all of them obviously will have uh impact, but let us know if there's one that stands out to you that you go, yeah, that would be the one if I had to put um above all else that I live you live your life by. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 36:40

This is not gonna be an easy choice, I can tell. Um this is y'all's five pillars.

SPEAKER_02 36:45

This is this is TLW's five pillars, okay? Honor God above all else. And so pretty strong. Okay, let's take that one off the table. Okay. Okay. I mean, because that that's a clear win. That's why I listed at number one, right? Yeah, that's the number five. Yeah, yeah. For a reason. For a reason, it's a number five. So I got four options. You got four options. Uh, discipline is diligence, value people over profit, lead through service, not self, and build legacy through integrity.

SPEAKER_01 37:18

Whew. Uh those are some, those are those are strong. Um you know, I my first thought is is uh you know, people over profit. Um but the service tell me tell me the service one again. Lead through service, not self. I mean I I think that's probably the thing that's you know, I I don't know that I've ever really been about just a prop, you know, profit. Um I think service is a is one of the strongest words. I think it's one of the uh I that that's that's something I've strived to do um and struggled with a lot, you know. Uh in in response, once you finish law school, you know, you're getting asked to be on all these these boards and to do things and you think, well, that's what we're supposed to do. Um that's not really service, is being on it. And and I I I've had several periods of my life where I find myself needing to kind of you know uh cut back on certain things to prioritize. And I have to ask myself and be brutally honest, why are you sitting on this board? What is it? Is it because you it it you think it looks good? Or are you actually is there another area of your life where you could serve better? Right. Um and and and so there's several I I think service to me, there's a lot of just being there is not is not service, you know, just uh just just showing up or doing something. And a lot of times I found I thought I wanted to maybe maybe be on the L Club board because I thought it would it would be beneficial for me as opposed to how can I help serve all of our 9,800 letter winners? You know, what are we doing? So I think service service is um, I think it's a phrase that that often, you know, servant leave leadership. It often gets thrown around, but um, but when you when you meet a servant who cares more about helping others and serving and not being in the limelight, uh you know it when you see it.

SPEAKER_02 39:10

And it's very impactful. Yeah, you can tell, right? Right off the bat. You can tell if somebody's there for themselves or they're truly for others, without question.

SPEAKER_01 39:18

But those are great pillars. I don't know how how did y'all how did y'all uh just pull those out of a habit? Chat GPT. You're reading through some some some 1776 manuscripts and found some.

SPEAKER_04 39:29

Just in light bedtime reading. Yeah. Um all right. So on that note, uh one of the things that we work with our clients on is the uh importance of habits, routines, etc. of our pastor, uh who was actually one of our previous guests, Pastor Mike Heyman, yeah, has a saying. The great, the bishop of biceps. He's gonna love to drop it on here. Um he has a saying that I absolutely love, and we we kind of as a group really identify with it's uh big doors swing on small hinges. And so we want to know are there any specific habits, routines, or anything that is a necessity to your day that helps you more or less uh align yourself with where you need to be to accomplish all that you accomplished day in and day out?

SPEAKER_01 40:13

You know, uh I you know, I feel like once you have kids, a lot of the routine uh you know changes from what you kind of used to have, the structure. I would say that that one of the most consistent things is when I first kind of crack my eyes in the morning, my first thing is to try to focus on what I'm thankful for about today. And and through prayer too, and and making that a much more intentional part of my life. But if if I can just pause in a moment and just be and just pick, okay, I'm here, I'm alive, I'm thankful for this opportunity to be in the moment here. Um, I'm thankful that my that I've my kids are here, that everyone's healthy. That to me is something that I I I would say is probably the most important thing. When I wake up because I'm missing a phone call or I'm scrambling, then I I'm I'm I'm in a total different spot with my whole day than than than than just focusing. And I used to, so my my uh my grandmother who passed away at 100 years old, she was rounding third to a to 101. Um, I used to call her and her her her line, I would say, you know, BB, what what are you up to? Oh, just over here counting my blessings. Um and you know, she could gripe about it. She she never griped about anything. And she just would focus on, you know, and this is a lady who lost um, you know, three of her, outlived three of her four kids and her and her husband and lived to be a hundred years old. Um, but she was always counting her blessings. And um, and that's so I would say if there was kind of one routine in the morning, it's to try to run through to count my blessings in the morning. Yeah, I love that.

SPEAKER_02 41:54

So you're obviously very busy, okay? We've gone through all the things that you've accomplished. Um and and you you just discussed the need to stop, slow down, and acknowledge before your day gets going, right? Um the concept of work-life balance, if just from a time standpoint, we're we live in reality here. We know it doesn't exist. Yeah, okay. And that for us starts when you start going to school, right? I mean you're spending more time away from home than you are um there. So as you have moved into uh the busy professional life, uh where again, because of how hard you work and because of who you are, you're gonna always strive to succeed. How how important is your your approach to creating as much quality time as you can with your family because I know how much they mean to you, right? I mean you you have three children, um and obviously, you know, you're married to an unbelievable woman. So talk to our viewers about that and the importance of it to you.

SPEAKER_01 43:03

Yeah, it's it's the most I mean, it's the most important thing. I used before I had kids, I used to work every Sunday. Um, you know, it helped Mondays, it just made Mondays go by easier. I haven't worked, unless I have a trial coming up, I haven't worked a Sunday um in years. And um, you know, and that's because when I'm at home, I I want to be fully at home. Um, you know, I there's oftentimes there's guilt about uh you know not getting back to an email or text message, but I try uh and and I'm terrible at it because when I get home and I get off of work, um, you know, I am I am trying to be there and be there completely. It's the most important thing. When if and and I I work with um uh Murphy Foster who who always talks in terms of you gotta take care of of home and your family uh and then take care of the work that you've got, the existing clients, and you gotta develop new clients. Um and those three those three aspects are always uh you know. Just depending on the time of year, and you know, you've got to balance those. And they're not easy to balance. You can't do all of those. But um, I always think of I I need to be here and and and I'm I'm going to kids' events and I'm rearranging schedules. It's the most important thing to me. And I think you have to be intentional, but there is a sense of guilt a lot of times. Uh, and when I get to work, I try not to deal with a lot of the personal stuff. I try to use the first 30 minutes to take care of the things that I need from a personal standpoint. You know, I need to send this check to this this place or whatever, so that I can then focus on what I need to focus on at work. Problem is then you get back to your phone after two and a half hours of of really focusing in and you're you're playing catch up on a lot of things that some matter, some some some don't really matter. Um and I and that's a struggle that I have. But I I I always felt I grew up in a home where my my voice mattered. Yeah, they cared when I was there. I never felt ignored. And these are I was both of my parents were attorneys and they were receiving phone calls all the time. Um, they served on boards. I was with them at a lot of board meetings. I was with them to go, you know, build a fence for someone else that needed a fence built. Um you know, so I bring my kids and and and involve them in a lot of that. Um, but it's it's it's the most important thing, and it's not always uh aligned properly. Um, especially my wife is is extremely active in the legal community. She's the president of the Baton Rouge Bar Association this year. She's um by far the smartest, uh, you know, smartest of the of the two of us. Every law school class we took together, she she just crushed it, and I I did not crush it. Um but she balances, she she just does such a a beautiful job of of you know not only getting the kids to where they need to be, but also reminding me very politely that uh remember we have this thing at at school at 11:30. Um and you know that that helps. But I mean if you lose that, once you lose the the home base, every the wheels fall off of the whole thing. And so it's it's and again, I don't pretend to think that that I always do a good job. And I'm glad my kids and wife aren't here getting asked these questions uh too. But um, but it's it's by far the most important thing to me. And I and I recognize we only we have so much time. Um that is the biggest cliche you hear all the time. It goes fast. It absolutely goes fast, and I'll see old pictures and I get emotional um of my 10-year-old daughter who was just two, yep. And now she's almost as tall as as as my wife is. Um, you know, it just it just goes by in a blink. Um, but it's it's it's it's the biggest priority of my life.

unknown 46:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 46:44

All right. So we're about to wrap things up in a second before Pix gets to our most favorite question that we ask. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:50

Um I should have done a little bit more recon on this.

SPEAKER_04 46:52

Oh you'll you'll figure it out pretty quick. Um any uh basic pieces of advice for uh young professionals that are um starting families? I mean, I know you kind of touched on that briefly, but do you have any like one or two quick bits that you can pass along to individuals who are stepping into seasons of life that you are in the middle of right now?

SPEAKER_01 47:11

Yeah, I one thing I talk about, so I I've had the um incredible opportunity to teach at the LSU Law School where I've teach I've taught sports law for the past five uh five years. You know, one of the things we we talk about, and I love teaching. I love being there because these are students that are really they're on the dock about to take off on their journey. Yeah, um, but what I try to encourage them is to go go do something spectacular. You know, no route is gonna be the same. You know, everyone thinks you got to get the grades here, you got to do this, and then you go to this firm type of firm and you do this. Go build, go build it. If there's not a path that you see that makes sense for you, then build it. And you'll you have to have people along the way to support you. Um, but you will, and a lot of people in the room with you know, in the law school, um, they're gonna be your biggest supporters. And um, you know, the the other thing is to try to you've got to draw boundaries, you know, and and the work is gonna be there. I tell myself that often because so many times I get caught up just trying to finish this little thing. If I can just finish this right now, and that maybe mean I'm 20 minutes late to something, um, you know, the work's gonna be there on Monday. You know, go help your go go go to lunch with your friend that you hadn't seen in a long time. Um, you know, shut the phone off at five, you know, and and set those, set those parameters with your clients. That's that's the most important thing. I regret a lot of times, you know, emailing at 11:30 p.m. and and you start to establish the expectations that they send you something at 11:30, uh that's gonna be the norm from there on. It can be. And then you feel that if you don't, then you feel guilty. Well, I can't believe I let this thing uh sit and I haven't responded to them. Then you're adding this this this pressure instead of saying, look, I may respond to you at 5 30, you know, but I'm off the I'm off of the clock here. Um and there's exceptions to all of this. I mean, and trials are are certainly those moments. Um but I would say, you know, I would say just set boundaries and and the work is going to be there. You know, it's a process. You're not ready when you come out of law school. Um, but you're not, you know, I always tell a lot of the young guys that are that that I work with that are having babies, try to change every diaper you can. You know, um you're not gonna be able to do that. Well, it's the it's all you can do in the moment. Um, and I also work, you know, I've I've got older um you know colleagues that never change one diaper, you know, and and I it it has a way of grounding you when you're there and you're jumping up, yeah. I'll change the diaper. I mean, do I love changing diapers? No, do I love taking something off of her hands in the you know, in that moment where that's and in my mindset is that if if I can do that and help with that, um, you know, it there's so much about the difference in in generations and coming up, but to be as involved, take your kid to school. I pick my kids up from school every day. Love it. Um, that means I'm leaving at five o'clock at the latest, and I'm on two wheels coming in on coming in hot uh to pick them up, but um, but that's a boundary, and I and I've set that, and that's what's gonna happen. Um, so I'm not at the office until eight. Now I might there's certainly nights where I've I need to pick it up once they go to bed. Um but uh but just setting those boundaries is what I would say.

SPEAKER_04 50:25

Yeah, love it.

SPEAKER_01 50:26

Okay, so here it goes. Uh oh.

SPEAKER_02 50:28

And and I'm gonna I'm gonna put a little twist.

SPEAKER_01 50:30

Wait, it's my turn to ask y'all some questions. Is that another one? We're almost done.

SPEAKER_02 50:34

You'll have to come back for that next time.

SPEAKER_01 50:36

Episode two. So fastest mile you've ever run.

SPEAKER_02 50:39

You know, I got a lot of questions over here. So um I'm gonna put a little bit different twist on this question that we ask every client. Um typically I'll I'll go back to an age like you know, 17, 18, something like that, and say, you know, here's the question I have for you. I'm gonna take you back to 22, okay, for obvious reasons based on something that we covered earlier. And um and while we've already acknowledged the fact that in that moment you don't want advice from somebody else, you don't want direction, you don't want that, okay? Um but you're 22-year-old David Fleshman in a dark period, and you gotta overcome this. Maybe not overcome, you have to figure out how to move forward, okay. You David Fleshman, right now, okay, gets to look at 22-year-old David Fleshman in that difficult, difficult moment, to say the least. And you get one piece of advice to give them to give him.

SPEAKER_01 51:52

That's a it's a really good question. Um you know, uh I'd probably uh I'd probably you know try to wrap my arms around him uh and and and and tell him that you're gonna make it, you're gonna make it through. Um slow down, you can't control a lot of this. Um and I would tell him where I am now, I wish that I would have heard from somebody to really give it up to God, to let to to to stop trying to control everything and to trust and and lean into your faith. Um and and again at that time I I'm I'm sure people said it. I'm not sure I would have responded well. Right. But in hindsight over the last 18 years, the more that I tried to churn to control things or to be in control, because I'm scared of losing things, you know. I mean, you lose someone that close to you, um, it shakes everything about everything is upside down. Um, and including my faith at that time. Um, you know, but I I would I would I would say get involved, you know, go to church, pray, take a moment. I just had this mentality of I don't have time to do any of that. Like this is that hadn't gotten me anywhere. And it's taken a long time for me to to really figure out that instead of leaning into my faith, that I was really leaning out of the faith and relying on myself to carry the load, which is not how we're designed to do. Um and so I would I I I wish I could tell myself to when you feel that scared and broken and damaged to to to give that up to God and to lean into that and instead of to try to fill it up by by doing things where you are in control and you feel like you're good at um because it's it's really you're just chasing your tail at that point.

SPEAKER_02 53:54

Incredible. Incredible. Um I'm gonna say this before we close that to whoever watches this, if if you didn't gain something from this, uh then you're unwilling to make the decisions that you need to make right now. Um and we've all been there and we all get in that spot. But um go back and watch this podcast whenever you are willing to make a change, and uh and you'll see somebody who's sitting between us right now who who didn't make any excuses during the darkest time of his life, um has accomplished a whole heck of a lot, but has not made it about the accomplishments. Um he said that even today the most important thing for him to do is to open his eyes and be thankful for what's around him. And so um that would be the message that I'm I know that's the message I'm gonna take from this. Uh, even though I'm considerably older than everybody in this room, um you are have always been uh an example to those around you. You have uh you're one of the toughest guys I ever coached. The irony, not irony, but the amazing part is three of the toughest guys I ever coached are in this room together right now. Um and I don't think that's by accident.

SPEAKER_00 55:15

And I think that uh do notice he said toughest. He didn't say the most talented.

SPEAKER_04 55:21

I was gonna ask, wait, wait, wait, really quick, before we close it out, I want to know how many torn ACLs we have in this room right now.

SPEAKER_01 55:26

We got a we got uh two over here and then one right there. And then I got no, and then you have three. I got three.

SPEAKER_02 55:32

Yeah, but you keep running on yours. That's a different thing.

SPEAKER_01 55:34

Yeah, but you know, he used to say that it was the best player, and then that's that every year I kept coming back and being like, well, this is getting, you know, he can't say any of that. Now it's turned into just the toughest, which is you know, I it's it's a high compliment, and I would rather be the tough one of the toughest. I would rather that because that's an approach about brother.

SPEAKER_02 55:50

It is funny though, I got asked the other day. Uh, not the other day, we've I've had it over a few years, but um who's your all-time dunham starting five?

SPEAKER_01 55:58

Yeah, Sean Owens Meatball. I can tell you right now it's not Sean Owens.

SPEAKER_02 56:02

And I'm telling you, David Fleshman finds his way into that lineup every time.

SPEAKER_01 56:06

Yeah, for for the first 30 seconds, and then that horn better be coming in. You got a table above it, guys.

SPEAKER_02 56:12

Um if I'm putting a team together. If I'm putting a team together.

SPEAKER_01 56:15

I remember just uh, you know, to watch you, especially as I mean, how old were you when you started coaching us?

SPEAKER_02 56:20

25, 26.

SPEAKER_01 56:22

Which sounds like a baby, yeah. But to us, you were you were man, you know, you were a man, you were married, yeah. Like you, you were like that, you just felt like you were 40. You know, it just felt like everybody's but to watch you wear out the LSU guys that would come in there and to to have to watch you do it, and for us to be on your team, and and that was um, you know, Borne used to come in there, used to have those the the the brothers, the the twin tower brothers, they would but they would wear out all of the college guys. And for me, I I guess I was just thinking you were 40 years old or something, you know, but uh and just tell them about it. And but for us to be able to what and to be a part of that and to watch you just how you handled that, um, you know, it's a lot of instant credibility. Um, but then to to be there with us for the tough losses and to be there with the positive message, um, you know, I mean, I your your impact on so many people. Uh and me, I I think you know how much you mean to me. Um, but you've how many, how long did you coach at Dunham? 20 yeah 21 years, totally. And it's not just the basketball. I mean, you taught and there's other people, but the it gives me the chills right now thinking about it of you know, imagine the kids that come through the schools that have no one that even remotely cared about them or showed them what it looks like to be a man and a Christian man of faith. And also, I'm gonna compete and I'm going to be genuine, and I'm you know, I there's it's no better example for us to have. And uh, and and I can't thank you enough for that. And the the the generations that you change. I mean, a lot of the things that you you've said to us uh in practice and um you know the toughness that I got to see, um, you know, I I don't think I was just always had that. It just I thought that's I thought that's what we were all supposed to do. Um, you know, when everyone else is backing out of a fight, you know, backing out, like that's when you step up and and and you kind of draw the line. Um you give it your best effort, you know. Um those are things that I I just those are generational things that I find myself saying to my kids. Um, you know, and it's just amazing when you sit back and think about the impact that you've had on uh obviously everyone in this room, but but hundreds of people. And that's not even the AAU programs, that's not even what you're doing now. You're now pivoting into kind of having a more direct um, but I I just it's amazing, and I I just get the chills to think about the impact that you're having on our generation and the next generation and the next generation in our community, which is a really awesome thing to be able to say that you're doing.

SPEAKER_02 58:58

Man, it's that's incredible, and I can't tell you how much I appreciate that. And um, you are now higher hired as our marketing director as well. But no, man, I'm telling you.

SPEAKER_01 59:07

For the one person out there that's you need to sign these guys up right now. It's incredible. Um it's been so much fun doing that. I I and again, I thank you for the honor of coming on, and and I appreciate you know, I feel like I've talked a lot about I've next next episode uh when when y'all get a little break, I'm gonna I'm gonna flip the questions on you guys.

SPEAKER_04 59:26

I'll see if I'm available.

SPEAKER_01 59:28

Well, if that bar if that barbecue ends ends early, you know.

SPEAKER_02 59:31

Our relationship obviously uh means a lot. It is obviously far from over as well. And um we appreciate you coming on and giving us some time and and really uh like I said to the viewers, if they if they don't get something out of this, then they're just not in a place to get something out of it because there was there were too many things um said today that were impactful um not to benefit from. So we'll wrap it here. Uh Jonathan Pixley, for Sean Owens, uh, and for our partner behind the scenes, Jace Augustus, again, David Fleshman, amazing job today. We will close at the TLW podcast. Go get it.