Legal Tech StartUp Focus Podcast

How Emma Legal Turns Data Rooms Into Insight

• Charles Uniman

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Deals don’t stall because people are lazy; they stall because the right people can’t see the right risks at the right time. We sit down with Rick van Esch, CEO and co‑founder of Emma Legal (https://www.emma.legal), to unpack how AI-driven playbooks, structured data rooms, and permissioned collaboration can turn due diligence from a slog into a strategic advantage.

Rick traces his path from capital markets to enterprise AI, then to building an AI legal due diligence platform that connects directly to leading data room providers. We break down how Emma structures messy uploads against due diligence request lists to reveal gaps early, and how its red flag engine highlights the clauses that matter—change of control, renewals, reserve matters, drag-along and tag-along rights—color-coded for fast triage. Instead of static PDFs, firms can export classic reports or share interactive dashboards that pair AI highlights with attorney commentary, letting clients and counterparties engage without compromising work product.

We also explore vendor due diligence on the sell side, where prepping the “asset” before market speeds timelines and builds trust. Rick’s car-sensor analogy lands: keep constant indicators on contracts and corporate housekeeping, then share that clarity with buyers. The same insights power post-close integration, acting as a single source of truth for renewal calendars, consents, and obligations—where real deal value is made or lost. Along the way, we talk network effects from inviting PE counsel and bankers into permissioned views, and why this kind of collaboration reduces friction while preserving security.

For founders, Rick shares unvarnished advice: legal sales cycles demand perseverance, credibility matters, and fundraising can be a strategic signal when selling to enterprise buyers. Product–market–founder fit keeps you moving when timelines slip. 

If you care about legal technology, M&A due diligence, and building tools lawyers actually use, this conversation offers clear takeaways and practical detail you can put to work on your next deal. 

Subscribe, share with a colleague who lives in data rooms, and leave a review with the one feature that would save your team the most time.

Meet Rick And Emma Legal

SPEAKER_00

Your loyal and faithful podcast host at the Legal Tech Startup Focus Podcast, Charlie Uniman. And I'm very pleased to have as a guest Rick Vanish, who is the uh CEO and a co-founder of Emma Legal. Before we get to uh hearing from Rick, I'm going to say that I had the pleasure of meeting him face to face at the TLTF Summit uh in Austin, Texas, back in uh in the fall. Um and it was great to see you then. Rick, welcome. Thank you so much, Charlie. Thank you for having me. Oh, the pleasure is all mine. So um I have the advantage over my uh listenership and our audience uh having heard a bit about Emma Legal and as I said, meeting Rick. Um but I'd like to uh ask Rick at the outset, as I often do when I talk to startup leaders and the Legal Tech Vertical, uh, to tell me how he uh how he founded uh Emma LEGAL. Uh and uh then we'll get into what Emma Legal does and what Emma's uh secret sauce is, special sauce, how it uh differentiates itself from uh others out there that do similar things. So a little bit of professional background, Rick, and let's then get into Emma.

Career Path From Markets To AI

SPEAKER_01

All right, thank you so much. So yeah, my name's Rick. Um actually, I started my career in capital markets. I've always been intrigued about how companies basically grow and finance for that growth. Um, so I started about 15 years ago. I literally worked for stock exchanges. So I worked for the London Stock Exchange Group. Uh, I worked a while in Italy uh because they back then acquired the Italian Stock Exchange. Um, and then about 10 years ago, I made my move into software. Um, it was a legal tech, uh, after all, that I did. Um, back in days we called it the FinTech, uh, but it was uh about this problem statement about digital signatures. Um back then, a lot of you know folks would print uh contracts, sign them on paper, and then scan them back in. Um we built a solution around that. Um, and then about eight years ago, I met my co-founder Peter, who was a PhD in AI. He told me, like Rick, you know, digital signatures are very awesome and very intriguing. But I know something that's more intriguing, and that's AI.

SPEAKER_00

Uh-huh.

The Spark: Pain Of Data Rooms

What Emma Legal Actually Does

SPEAKER_01

So we did a bit of a uh a startup that back then. Um I think the easiest way to explain it is that we did ChatGPT before it was a thing, but for enterprises. That company scaled pretty quickly, and after two and a half years it was sold to a stock listed group in Sweden called Singe. Uh and at that group in Sweden, uh my capital markets background came to use again because that group did in I think a time frame of two and a half years, um, did about uh five billion USD uh in acquisitions. Wow. And Peter and I we were looking at this and we saw you know all the data involved, and you know, with our background in AI, we said, like, would there not be a possibility? Uh, and we sold our own company as well, so we went through the pain of you know data rooms, uh populating them, getting some useful insights from it, uh, because we are we were very um curious about what our potential acquirers would learn about our company while digging through the data room. We asked ourselves, like, could there not be something done with AI? And that led to the beginning of Emma. Uh, Emma is an AI legal due diligence platform. Um, Emma, the name comes from uh the personification of MA. So I hope that the readers will never forget here, uh, or the listeners will never forget here. Um, and that was a little bit the journey that we went through. So it was really from our own um, I would say, pains in going through these processes that we asked ourselves with our knowledge, could there be something done here that would make uh sense for users of such platforms?

SPEAKER_00

Well, that's a good uh that's a good introduction to uh one man's journey into legal tech. It's often whether you're a lawyer or a business person scratching your own itch and you suffer the pain of uh dealing with uh data rooms and uh uh data uh in connection with uh mergers and acquisition transactions. I, as I've told Rick, and as my listeners have heard, I'm an old, very old, uh former corporate lawyer. So I did my share of acquisitions. Uh but as a younger corporate lawyer, there was almost nothing professionally that I hated more than uh the due diligence process as a very young lawyer. And as my listeners have heard me say, out in the early days of my practicing uh law being sent to a drafty warehouse, really chilly, cold warehouse in the great state of Ohio in the U.S. to do due diligence and staring at mounds and mounds of banker boxes with docs. Um AI was uh just a set of letters, two letters that meant nothing back then, but now it means a lot. So I share the uh interest uh in getting that right. And uh I think that while digital signatures are very important, uh I think your co-founder, Peter, got you on the right track. He certainly did. He certainly did. So tell us about Emma, and I appreciate the MA Emma, uh MA uh uh link to the uh initials that we all know and love. Uh tell me about Emma, uh exactly what it does when you're talking about data and data rooms and acquisitions, and more broadly or more narrowly, however you want to put it.

Playbooks, Red Flags, And Reporting

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, sure. Uh happy to do so. And so, Charlie, uh what you mentioned about you know these cool cold rooms where you had to do due diligence. I think nowadays a lot of uh you know younger associates they don't really um realize, but many of these data room providers today that are being used, uh they actually started as um companies that rented out facilities where you would bring your papers. Um and then you would have one room for the for one interested party, and then another room. It could be you know completely on the different side of the country because nobody could know who was who was interested for this particular deal. Yeah, um, just looking at uh a copy, a file of copies uh of exactly the same document. So that's really how these players started, and that's where typically their roots are. Um, and we've been talking a lot to these players, and um it's really interesting. Well, while they like 25 years ago when they started, and some of them experimented already back then with the with the clouds, uh, and the cloud providers that that today it's very normal to have your data on the cloud. Um, back then it was really about all the concerns about um not sharing any data uh or not uh putting it uh on store uh on on a server somewhere that somebody else could access it. Oh, I know that well. Yeah, so many of these data rule providers, they're a bit of cybersecurity type of companies, right? Um, so what it means is that they're very protective uh about the data that they provide, and I mean for good reasons. It's very sensitive data um that they hold for their customers. What we do with Emma is that we connect to these providers, um, so we help them to become more AI uh enabled. Of course, in the end, our customers are the law firms that conduct uh the legal due diligence for their clients, or it could also be uh the legal uh departments of private equities that conduct it themselves. Um, but that's really the first step that we connect to these data room providers, the intra links, the ideals, the enceradas, the data sites of this world. Um and what we then do is we we have two um you know big modules in our platform. The first module is where we basically structure that data uh on an information request list or a due diligence request list, um, just to make sure that a law firm or any legal professional that's going to look into this data room is able to see if the data is complete to actually start the exercise, because very often uh the counterparty hasn't provided all the details yet that uh the law firm ideally would like to see. And then secondly, um we have I would call it a red flag engine. Um, we call them checks in our platform. It's basically if you know the document types that are in the platform in the in the step that I just explained earlier, you can say, hey, a shareholders agreement. Um these are typically the things I need to check for. So I want to look at reserve matters, I want to look at drag-along, tag-along rights, these types of things. Uh, and you can very quickly assess them and we even color code them with AI. Um and the cool thing is, is because we always work in the space of AI legal due diligence, uh, is that we've built uh standard playbooks for certain types of transactions. Um so the system comes uh with these playbooks out of the box. So you as a law firm uh or a legal department in a private equity or a VC can just directly get started and dive in. And then the last part that we have is a whole reporting module. So you could just uh export it in a traditional legal due diligence report, uh, or what you could do as well is send a dashboard that is interactive where you can even invite your client to go uh look at the documents and see everything that's highlighted in there uh with the AI, uh and of course together with the uh comments of uh of the lawyer or uh the legal professional as well. So that's really in a nutshell what we do uh what the platform does.

SPEAKER_00

Very good. Um yeah, I I my ears uh pricked up when you know I heard of the structuring, and and I I I guess uh summarize it as I understand it uh is your your platform brings some intelligence and structure to the mass of documents uh that are accumulated by the uh by the party supplying same to the to the uh uh interlinks of the world, for example. And then uh that playbook feature sounds uh particularly interesting to me because, in addition to uh you know, structuring uh the documents uh some sort of characterization, you can offer uh uh the law firm or in-house department a way to uh pick and choose and highlight uh features that are typically of importance in a in an MA deal of a particular type. Is that a good way to look at it?

Collaboration And Permissions

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, absolutely. You that's just about right. And um the idea here is that you build a bit of a knowledge base uh in time so that you can say, hey, we done a similar deal about six months ago. Uh we wanted to, I mean, one of my PE uh customers wanted to buy this software company, uh, but uh now another PE is interested in buying another software company, but yeah, I mean it's almost a similar transaction, so you could just use the playbook of the previous transaction and then apply it to the transaction you're having today. So uh with the AI, we we also build uh or basically we we we we push our clients to build a knowledge base because very often today an associate comes in first year um and and is being asked to do due diligence. In in many, many law firms, um there's not a very much a standard playbook. Uh it is just like look at these documents and find anything particular there that you think is out of place. So we help with that as well um uh with the platform. Yeah, let me double click.

SPEAKER_00

And let me double-click on on that. Do you work with the firm in a particular transaction to help them build that playbook if they ask you to do that? Is that part of the service? Or are you pre-supply are you uh supplying, I should say, pre-packaged playbooks or both? How does that work?

SPEAKER_01

So it starts with the pre-packaged one, uh, and then we employ lawyers um that have to do onboarding to customize it uh towards the needs of the law firm. Absolutely. Uh and that and that's just a temporary thing that we do. Um, but then uh we see our customers really using these playbooks and make them custom for themselves after three or four months. Uh so that's how it typically goes.

SPEAKER_00

One of the things when I was practicing uh back in uh in the day, but latter part of my practice when you know the cloud was finally gaining some acceptance, not enough as far as I was concerned. Um, and uh we'll talk a little bit about the cloud uh in a moment. Um, we uh we were uh always interested in collaborating uh with our client. And even down the road, we were hoping someday to be able to collaborate through the cloud with our counterparty council. Can can uh can a law firm, uh private firm that's that's using your tool, can they actually bring the client in uh on your tool uh to look at the the uh doc or the dashboard, or is it done separately from your your own?

SPEAKER_01

So that's uh an integral integral part of the of the offering uh that we have. So Emma, I want uh I sometimes refer to she as um analysis. No, go right ahead. I mean, I need to be very careful there. I know, I know, politically correct, yes that I can't like personify her that much, right? Um, but it but it's very uh tempting to do sometimes, sure. Um and also by the way, she's named Emma because she needs to be the smartest in the room, right? So um make sure that that people understand that. Oh, yeah. Um but um uh yeah, so basically the dashboards that we create uh on the findings, um, they can be shared with the client, and then the client only has access because there's a whole permissions um part in our platform as well. They can only see the dashboard, they can see the findings of the documents, but they can, for instance, not modify any of the findings that the law firm has put in. Um, but you could also collaborate, you could give them uh more access as well, that they actually could collaborate. And so the corporate counsel of a counterparty uh could give suggestions.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I'm happy, so happy to hear that because uh, you know, there are other uh legal tech companies uh with whom I've I've spoken recently that are bringing uh more collaboration tools to their to their uh their own tooling. Uh and my dream as a senior lawyer, which wasn't realized uh I retired about 11 years ago from the practice, um, I'm a recovering lawyer, I guess you could call me. My dream was to be able, even to bring in on some of the limited cloud-based tools that we had when I was still practicing, even bring in the other side with permissioned access to whatever platform we were we were using, because I uh insisted, and I didn't always have agreement from my own partners, that that uh you know, even having the other side to co-draft with at times would be a very hurtful thing, helpful thing. And I want to I want to see more of that uh where not only clients, but uh counterparty council, uh again, with strict permissioning, and other players who are uh uh outside either the counterparty's firm or or the host's firm, uh such as uh independent council, investment bankers, uh other lenders, uh uh special counsel, whatever. So I I I want to see that more and more, and I hope I hope uh people are listening to uh find ways, uh, not that it's cost-free, to introduce more permission to collaboration to their platforms. I'm I'm glad you're doing that.

Buy Side Vs Sell Side Diligence

Post‑Deal Integration Value

SPEAKER_01

So I'll I'll tell you the way that we look at it. So if you look at due diligence today, um there's two types of due diligence. You have the buy side, traditional due diligence, that's where everybody knows. Um, but you also have what we would call vendor due diligence or sell side due diligence. Especially in high-stake transactions, it's basically prepping the asset or the company to be sold. And you, as the sell side, uh whether you are you know external counsel assisting uh the sell site or it's the sell side themselves as a corporate council that uh is preparing it, you want to know the potential risks that are there uh in you know your legal fine print before you actually bring the asset or company to market. Sure. So in the Emma platform, you can do that. We we we are doing currently a couple of high-profile deals uh like that, where literally the law firm is just prepping an asset and it can just go much faster uh thanks to the AI. Um, but then the ideal is that hey, you run it through Emma, and then you give access to the buy side to exactly what has been found by Emma in the sell site advisor, and then they look at it. Because you should I mean, for you this is obvious for sure, Charlie, but you should never forget that if the deal goes through, um, the management of the sell site very often, or or a big part of it, uh, becomes part of the buy side, right? Because you become part of that company. So it's basically in your boat interest that you create uh full transparency about what's going on in the company because it makes the the second stage in the transaction so much easier being the integration phase. Um and in the integration phase, there's very often also the need that you want to see all the placeholders in the contract where there were was potentially an issue because you need to rectify that because you want to make sure that um you know, in the end, the asset or the company is performing. I'll give you a bit of an analogy that I've learned from from one of the corporate counsels that I worked with. Sure. Um said, like, look, MA today is like uh selling uh a secondhand car, a lemon. Basically, what happens is the following, which is a bit bit weird, is um you know, you you you drive a car for 10-15 years, then you know that basically uh the rims are scratched, you know that uh some things in the engines are broken, and you bring it in to fix it up. You fix it up quickly, uh, and then you just try to get the best buck out of it. Ideally, what you should do um is that you would look at an asset uh and check it, uh check up on it uh regularly. Uh and today with sensors you do that, right? Sure. Uh in a car. And I think that's the best way to compare a platform with is that instead of just like you know checking it manually if everything works, uh Emma's bit the sensors on all your corporate housekeeping and in corporate uh uh documents uh to just see like you know where potentially there's an issue. Uh and I think it's good that you do it on both sides. It's good that the driver in the car, while they still own it, sees the indicators, but it's also good uh that the person that wants to buy the car can get like a certificate from uh the dealer and say, like, we checked for all of these things and it seems to be fine.

SPEAKER_00

Very good analogy. And and you know, it it it I'm embarrassed to say that I hadn't thought of this before, but obviously you have running the running Emma. Um you really have uh a tool that can be used uh you know, pre-deal uh while you're prepping, uh certainly during the uh uh due diligence phases of the deal. And I guess even as you just mentioned yourself, uh post-deal, where once the integration phase starts after the deal has closed, the the um the intelligence that Emma has brought to the documents is invaluable to the people at the uh Acquire Or who uh who now have to integrate and have to have a ready single source of truth on the documents to make the integration work well. And they must be going back to your platform to be able to do it. Uh correct.

SPEAKER_01

And because that's where you unlock the the value together. And that's that's what drives whether a deal is eventually successful for the buy side, right? So and I I've seen my fair share there with the five billion of transactions that we've done at this stock listed company. Um uh integration is really where you make the value, and you know, not knowing about uh a bigger customer contract uh that's about to renew or not to renew, uh, if you don't know that as an operational management team, um that can be very Very painful, uh, especially if you hear like uh a couple of weeks later that oh, but we knew this. This was uh you know, factoring into the deal. Uh yeah, weren't able to do a proper handover there. Yeah. Um, so so so that's a little bit how we look at the philosophy and and how we look at like sharing the data with with different people outside of the uh external or or the internal legal counsel.

SPEAKER_00

Right. And and and even on the prep stage or the uh, you know, I I'll I'll I'll get on my hobby horse again. You know, if you're prepping and and you have a uh uh a sell side banker helping you uh do the uh work as a um as a seller, you ought to be able to have that banker come in uh and work with you uh through your platform. You ought to be able to have, if you had an appraiser, uh if you had a special counsel, they all should be able to come in. That's my collaboration hobby horse. I'll get off the hobby horse right now, but I do think that that's going to reduce the friction. The more uh uh you can bring players into the tool, well permissioned, uh, who are part of the transaction. Uh and it's a great way to advertise the um the service to others because you know people are gonna say, hey, I heard about this wonderful tool called Emma because my client semiconductors are incentive. That's our incentive, right?

SPEAKER_01

The more people we bring in, you you get some of that viral growth. I mean, we won't become the new Facebook, of course. Uh it it's not gonna go like that. But indeed, if you invite that private equity council as well, or uh that corporate council into the platform, they'll do a deal again in six months, or the private equity might do next a deal next week, and they can say, hey, I really had a good experience as a client with this platform, uh, but this time I'm using another external council. Could you use this uh again? Of course, of course. As well. So that that's in there for us.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and there are network uh effects possibly. Uh not that this is not that this is really a virality uh play, but uh, you know, I can imagine down the road where two parties are getting together uh to do a deal and and um you know the seller uh says, uh, hey, are you on Emma? And one party says, and not that this, I have a feeling the big determinant is going to be price, but the seller says, uh, I mean, the buyer says, never heard of it. And the other buyer says, yeah, sure. And the seller says, well, you're already on it. Great. Uh so you know, when you start having these network effects, it even multiplies the uh marketing aspects of uh of the use of the the tool. Uh so you can advertise, hey, we're on it, it'll make it easier. Are you on it? Yes, we are. Bingo. Um, here we go. Uh, we're gonna work together even more easily because we both know Emma from other deals. Um wonderful. I um that that it's one of the better discussions I have to say. Congratulations, Rick, on on what a product does. Crystal clear. Um how long has Emma been around, did you say?

SPEAKER_01

So um, so the company is uh around for 18 months now. Uh we fundraised quite early, I would say, after six months in, um, just because we saw that there was traction quite early on.

SPEAKER_00

Um so so yeah, that that's it. And so, but you've been in the game, uh, having sold a company, you've been with Emma for a year and a half. Uh, as I often ask guests who have been running companies, um, you've had good times, you've had not so good times, you've learned a lot, sometimes regrettably from your mistakes. But I I think if the mistake isn't a game-ending mistake, it's always good because you learn from it. What advice, what words of wisdom, pearls of wisdom from a business standpoint might you offer other legal tech founders and and leaders? What what have you uh what have you learned most uh that's most important? There's so many.

Fundraising, Credibility, And Sales Cycles

SPEAKER_01

Um I think that the the most important advice I can give for my background as an entrepreneur is realize that the the line between tremendous success and tremendous failure is sometimes very thin. Um and especially in the beginning um you need to persevere a lot. Right? Very often you have this discussion in startup world between pivot and and persevere. Yep. Uh I think especially in legal tech, because you have buyers that typically won't buy it till like the first month. They need you need to build the trust. Um so the the perseverance is very important, I would say, especially in legal tech. Uh we factor that in. That was also one of the reasons why we early on said like we need to fundraise uh because we know we're selling to enterprise um buyers mainly. Uh, even if if it's a small uh law firm, they have enterprise buyer uh behavior or expectations. Uh and I think if you do that, you uh it can be a very interesting market because once you're in um you get that full trust, you can really do a lot with your clients, but but you need to have that mindset, uh, especially when you're selling directly into law firms. It doesn't mean that you cannot do like B2C legal tech uh applications that have a very different dynamic. Um so I think that's that's that's a big one. Uh and then uh you know, for other founders in this in this podcast, um just know that uh you need to have product market fit, of course, but I also very much believe in product market founder fit. So you need to do something that you are excited about because if then things go you know not as you expected, sideways, yep. You at least have your passion and you at least have like, you know, what I'm doing, I just think it's just a very good um use of my time because I'm I'm generally interested in this problem statement.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, you've lived it, and uh you've lived it even before you founded the company. And and uh I I I I want to go back to what you just said a few moments ago. There's always a question uh uh at what stage do you raise? Um and I'm not gonna pretend to be able to solve that or answer that question generally. It it first of all depends on the facts, as we lawyers like to say. It's very fact-specific. But I think you've pointed out something that is uh very important for very early stage companies. Not that this would be the determinant factor in deciding whether or not to raise, but if you're selling to sophisticated buyers, uh enterprise type buyers, whether it's a private law firm or certainly an in-house legal department, credibility is very important. Uh and one way to get credibility, and again, not that this is going to be the single point that determines whether you raise and from whom you raise, but it's important. One way to get credibility is to have a uh a venture-backed uh startup that you can uh demonstrate has the impra matter of a uh serious uh VC firm. And uh and if you can do that, all other things being equal, uh again, a lawyer's phrase often used, uh, you know, that may be the determining factor. Because if you're going to a uh AMLAW 100 firm and you can say, and let's let let's reach for the stars here, and and I've seen this, um, I've got Sequoia here in the US VC firm all around the world, actually, on my uh on my board. Uh, you know, you're gonna you're gonna get people to listen.

Founder Advice: Persevere And Fit

SPEAKER_01

Uh this was also our reasoning, right? So when we we just we we had this decision to be made about 15 months ago, do we fundraise or not? Um there were a couple of things that we we put on the table. The first one was, you know, do we need capital to grow this or not? And RD by cycles. So how long does it take for a buyer to actually buy this? So do you need working capital or just bridge capital uh to account that in? Um, but that's just the finance part. When it got really interesting was when my and my co-founder were talking to each other and said, like, okay, so law firms who are paying these guys? Oh hey, they're actually private equities and VCs, right? Because they that's that's who they do the deals with. So we very quickly saw that we would get network effects by bringing a VC on board as well. So it was just much easier for us to defend um that uh diluting uh in the share capital of our own company um would actually potentially mean uh that we could even in the at the same time grow the pie. So that in the end the dilution would not be as severe as how much we could grow the pie because of the network effects of the funds that we would bring in, because they actually know a lot of lawyers as well. Very good, yeah. Effectively, what happened? Yep. Um, so so yeah, I think that that's a little bit our reasoning. Um, and then there's just one personal uh one is uh you know, we have the mindset either you go big or you go home. And I think today, especially in the legal tech space, if you're not backed uh by external capital, it's just very quickly to take that momentum in this market. It's just moving so fast. Um, it asks so much financial resources also on the AI front to to offer the best things to your customers. Uh, that was also definitely a concern.

SPEAKER_00

Oh my god, yes, yeah. You you you're not in a lifestyle business if you're uh selling legal tech. You know, you're you're in the you're in the uh play to grow uh business. Um super, excellent. Um so if people are interested in uh reaching out to you, Rick or uh or uh Emma, what are the uh contact points that they ought to keep in mind?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, you can just go to our website, so www.emma.legal. Uh that that's one. Um feel free to visit me on LinkedIn. So that's rick.fenesh after the last backslash on LinkedIn, and just send me uh uh a direct message. Um or you just email me at rick.fenesh at emma.legal.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, uh that that's uh that's wonderful. And uh, you know, I I usually say to people with whom I haven't had the uh pleasure of getting in touch face to face, let's meet at a conference.

SPEAKER_01

We've already done that, but uh so I'll be back in uh in uh in March in in New York. Um we'll go to uh to Law Week, right?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, okay, wonderful. Well I'll be there too.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, at uh transact, uh side event uh at uh at Clearly as well on that Monday, Monday, the 9th of March, I believe. Yeah. And and let's see, but it might be that I'll be in town in February as well, visiting some uh some clients as well in New York.

SPEAKER_00

So uh Yeah, let me know when you're in the city and uh perhaps we we can get together. Uh Rick, I can't thank you enough. It was uh uh uh use the word super too much, but a super uh podcast, if I do say so. And uh continued success and and look forward to uh to meeting uh with you uh face to face soon. Charlie, thank you so much for having me on the podcast. My pleasure. Thank you for listening to the Legal Tech Startup Focus Podcast. If you're interested in legal tech startups and enjoyed this podcast, please consider joining the free Legal Tech Startup Focus community by going to www.legaltech startupfocus.com and signing up. Again, thanks.