Don't Think Just Run! Mastering Speed with Matty Scott and Rajeev Balakrishnan

Australia’s track and field resurgence is real, and it’s being built from the ground up, one training group at a time. This week, our host Magnus Olsen and Australian Masters Athlete Don Sanka Small are joined by Rajiv, an Olympian-turned-elite coach, and Maddie Scott, a former top junior sprinter who moved into coaching after injuries, to talk about what actually develops speed, resilience, and long-term athletes in track and field.

We get into the nuts and bolts of athlete development: why multi-sport juniors often thrive, why so many athletes disappear between 18 and 22, and what coaches can do to keep people training when results don’t arrive on schedule. Rajiv breaks down how NCAA scholarships work in the US collegiate system and why that pathway is tempting, while we also ask the bigger question for Australian athletics leading into Brisbane 2032: how do we keep talent here and keep it progressing?

We also go practical on performance. We talk sprint coaching with and without tech, the right way to use data, and the support pieces that can make or break a season: sports nutrition, strength and conditioning, recovery, and reducing injury risk when athletes juggle school, work, and other sports. Then we dive into hurdles coaching, mindset under pressure, and the growing pull of masters athletics as a genuine lifelong sport with community, purpose, and competition.

If you’re coaching, competing, or thinking about coming back to the track, you’ll get plenty to take away. Subscribe for more, share this with a mate who loves sport, and leave a review to help more people find the show.

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Transcript

Australia’s Track And Field Moment

Magnus 0:00

Welcome to the Mastering Podcast. I'm the host, Magnus Olsen, I'm joined by my favorite co-host, Don Sanka. How are you, mate?

Don 0:07

Good, mate. Always a pleasure when I'm spending time with you.

Magnus 0:12

Mate, last week I think you're the powerhouse of education, mate. What's been happening this week?

Don 0:16

Track and field is having its golden era, in my opinion. And um, yeah, we said we were going to bring um a few masters of the sport and give the spotlight to a few local athletes and and uh coaches. So got a couple of guests that's uh building probably one of the largest squads here in Queensland. Uh, they got some good talent as well. So I want to pick their brains and understand uh athletic development and and ask a few questions on what the hell is in the water right now in Australia.

Magnus 0:50

Yeah, Aussie track and field's in a good place at the moment. Hopefully, we're not gonna peak too early.

Don 0:56

I don't know about peaking, but I think we are positioning ourselves really well for the 2032 Olympics. If we keep this up, uh the talent and the you know the juniors that are coming up, we are in a good place.

Meet The Coaches And Their Stories

Magnus 1:18

Exciting times. Well, I might introduce our two wonderful guests today. So they're two generations with one mission. We've got Rajiv, who's a Olympian-turned elite coach, and Maddie Scott was Australia's fastest junior, is now helping shape the next wave of talent. Welcome, boys.

Matt 1:36

Yeah, thanks for having me.

Magnus 1:37

So you guys were both successful as individual athletes. Jimon, just taking us back to where your athletic journey started and how what got you into athletics.

Rajiv 1:47

Uh well, I grew up in India, so I started running when I was probably 12 or 13 years of age, started competing in local meets and so on, and then I had a good coach. Uh well, coach was very keen to teach. I wouldn't say great coach at that time, but very keen to learn. And I came from a small town, and he was very keen to see how fast or how we can produce athletes who can compete at the national level. So one thing led to the other, and then by the time I was 18, I was I won the nationals in India, and that got me an opportunity to go to America, to the University of Iowa. I had a sports scholarship there. So I went and competed at Iowa for four years, had a very good coaches, good athletes to compete with. The first time I competed with athletes who were like ranked in the world, which I hadn't seen before. So that that gave me a different perspective on athletics. And then sort of continued uh training, went back to India, trained there, worked around in the Asian games and the Olympics, and so on. And then um moved to Australia in 2000. I was competing here for a year or two, but then I found coaching, coaching is where I enjoyed the most. So I started coaching from then onwards.

Don 2:54

So was 2000 and Olympics was that your last uh the big big me. So you retired after that. Yeah, okay.

Magnus 3:00

How old are you, Rajiv, if you don't mind me asking? Oh, it's I'm 54. 54. So I'm 56. So yeah, that um yeah, that's a great career. And um being able to be competitive in India because there's a fair old population over there, isn't it?

Matt 3:15

Yeah, yeah, there's a lot of people you can see.

Magnus 3:17

Maddie, what about you, mate?

Matt 3:19

Well, actually, uh as a I started off as a rugby player, actually, originally. So rugby was my main thing, and then uh got into sprinting. Um I grew up in Brizzy. Um, so I went to Anglican Church Grammar School, just around the corner from here, just in East Brizzy. So that's where I went, Rajiv. So Rajiv was the coach there at Churchy for a long time. Uh I was actually being trained by Sharon Dale at the time. Um, you know very well. And uh then I moved over to Rajiv squad and um trained with him ever since. And uh then it was the choice between rugby and sprinting. Rugby I went pretty good with. I made some Queensland teams and things like that and had to choose when I was 16, sort of 17, where I'd go. Um and at 16 I had a pretty break breakthrough year for sprinting. So that got me from when I was sort of 13 through to 17, I was number one in Australia for the ones and twos sort of thing. So uh 100 and 200 was my main events, but 200 was definitely where I found more success. Always made the relays and stuff, but 100, my start wasn't the greatest. And uh won a few nationals and uh sort of got in that sort of top 10 as a uh in the world as a junior at 16 for the 200. And then uh and then injuries took over from there. So after 17, I was sort of pretty injured from there, which sort of sent me into coaching. And then uh Rujiv and I started uh Future Athletics about say about maybe nearly 10 years ago, maybe eight, yeah, eight to ten years ago now, and then went it straight from competing um just because of injuries, and then into coaching with Rajiv, and we've been coaching ever since. So that's the story.

Don 4:49

So Sharon Dale, we had uh Reese and Dr. Christopher Dale um uh a few weeks back. Uh so Sharon was Chris's mom, but as he mentioned, he's been coaching for about 30 years in Brisbane. Uh one of the longest standing coaches, probably one of the most successful as well. I was also coached by Sharon and Chris for a while as well. Um can I ask what was your hundred time, both of you?

Matt 5:16

Uh Rush. It's a tight, it's it's it's an easy one for Rashiv because it's a lot quicker than mine, but uh and he'll be very modest. Mine was 10.6. Uh Rashiv was in those sort of low tens, sort of around that 10.1, 10.2. He was very, very fast. Uh training ran a lot quicker, um, sort of in that sub-10 area, but just in competition, he was unable to put it together. But yeah, that's that's sort of what we were in that in those hundreds, yeah.

Don 5:39

Yeah, well, I found out that uh Raji was the fastest man in India.

Rajiv 5:44

Number one.

Don 5:45

Number one, yep, yeah.

Rajiv 5:46

Yeah, held a national record in '94 to uh I guess 94 to maybe 98. What was that? What was the time? Oh, at that time it was 10.4-0, then I'm 1035, 1034. So yeah.

Don 5:59

1034, that's that's pretty impressive. That's in the 19 mid-1990s. Um, not many people would have run under 10 seconds at that time. So I think right now there's about 180 people who run under 10 seconds. Um, you know, in the 1990s, again, I'm not sure I'll put the numbers down when we get the episode out, but I I don't think there would have been more than uh any more than 100 people who would have run under 10 seconds. So um 10.3 was quite impressive. We didn't have the spikes that we have now, we don't have the tracks that we used to have. So that's good effort in 19 mid-1990s to run 10 seconds, and all the guys who ran, most of the guys who ran under 10, as we all would recall, um, from some of the infamous races were on some sort of oh big time.

Matt 6:53

And probably the big thing that that blew me away through Giv was he was doing a lot of 400 hurdles training and that sort of thing. He wasn't just a designated 100 runner, yeah, which is the most amazing part. So if if you focus just on that and just train for that, it would be amazing to see what he got. But he was doing four hurdles and and all that, and yeah, that's what I think.

Don 7:10

That's what you did. You did the 100 and the 400 hurdles, huh? Yeah, yeah. I remember that. I thought I was the only idiot who ran 110 hurdles and the 400 hurdles, which you know, against my coaches uh.

Rajiv 7:21

I think part of it because I went to the America. The American system is like that because you go to the collegiate system and they make you do a lot of events for the points. So you always do the 110-meter hurdles and you do phone hurdles and then you run a four by one and four by four.

NCAA Scholarships And Athlete Pathways

Don 7:34

So you tell us a bit about that because a lot of uh a lot of young kids, you know, their dream is to go and participate in the US collegial system, a lot of the Australian um athletes. So how does that system work?

Rajiv 7:49

Well, I mean, it's uh it's they recruit all over the world. They could the coaches have the they have a certain budget. It's controlled by NCAA, the National Governing Body of Athletics, or any sports in America. So they decide how many scholarships can be given to every every university. So if you're limited to like at that time it was seven full scholarships, they call it. Like you can have seven athletes, but the coach can distribute among 10 or 15 athletes, depending on if they want to give half scholarships and so on. So that's how you form the team. And then you compete for the everything is paid for for your uh education if you're on full scholarship, your your tuition fees or what they call it, like your your university fees, your accommodation and traveling and all that, everything is everything is paid for. And you compete for the university, you get you can compete for four years. Um you're given five years, but within that five years you can compete for four, and you can do any degree you want, as long as you can get into the into the university like into the department, into the like I did engineering, but you have to get into it. On your own on your own kind of academic uh marks and so on. But you can do any degree you want and they pay for it. You have to maintain a certain uh GPA to compete for the university, but everything is pretty much taken care of. Yeah, wow. So it's a very good system.

Magnus 9:10

How long did you spend over there?

Rajiv 9:12

Well, in the university I was from 1990 to 95, but then after that I trained as well, which was not part of the university.

Don 9:18

I moved to California, I was training there from the So did you go pro or was that still part of it?

Rajiv 9:23

Well, athletics professional is very hard. I mean, like, yeah, as much you you gotta have another jobs as well, a job as well, but yeah, as much as you can. Yeah, yeah. But were you sponsored by any of the yeah, to an extent, the traveling and the there were companies in India which were sponsoring me at that time and so on. So it was as much as you can. Yeah, yeah, you still need to have a part-time job.

The Hard 18 To 22 Transition

Don 9:44

Yeah, so wait, so the migration, how do we stop that? How do we keep our young athletes in Australia without um, you know, we've got the 2032 Olympics coming. If there was any opportunity, uh you got one of the youngest biggest squads, and both of you are coaches in two of the best schools programs as well. How do we keep our young athletes here? And because I think before we started the podcast, we talked about the fact that having the the talent that then also creates more talent.

Matt 10:16

Yeah, it'll be interesting to see what Rajiv says about that. Um, because the the way probably the big thing we both um are at Brisbane Grammar School now, and and we've seen a lot of obviously with our future athletics, a lot of kids come through. Our biggest trouble is uh other sports. So it's not losing them so much to other places as as such, but it's more to other sports. So even now we send out an itinerary um little a list for every parent or or child to fill out of their training roster every week for the term. So we do it term by term, just to know what other sports they have on. Um and that's probably our biggest challenge is we have so many kids doing so many other sports, and they do two, three sessions of this sport and this sport, and it's losing them to touch or rugby union or or those ones that obviously are those team sports that they make to play. Um athletics is very individual, so it's very hard to sort of keep them in it. Um, you need your results and and a little bit of fun, and and that's where we sort of come in at where, especially with those juniors and intermediate groups that we have, is just making them enjoy it as much as possible with a bit of variety. Um, otherwise you'll just lose into, like I said, team sports. That's probably our our biggest one at the moment. Um, what would you say?

Rajiv 11:22

Yeah, and I think I think the toughest part for any athlete, any sport is between 18 and 22. So yeah, juniors is fine, you're doing well in juniors, but to make the senior teams, unless you're one of those very gifted guard god or somebody who makes the transition seamless. They're from junior to senior, winning everything. But for most of the people, it takes you by the time you're 24, 25 to crack into the senior kids. Yeah, and that's a long time. 18 to 24, 25. A lot of things are changing. You're outside school, you've got to pick up a job, you have to support yourself, and you have to train, and you're not you're not really winning at the at the I mean, you're kind of there at the national level, but a lot of the kids are not winning the nationals, you're not making the team. So that's where I think you you end up losing a lot of kids, 18 to 23, 24, 25. Um Yeah, but but I mean Athletics Australia is doing a far better job now. They're providing athletes by the transition phase to send them to Europe to give them some exposure in the Asian circuit. Because in the past, like there would be a gap. Like you make nationals, you make world juniors, and after that, for four or five years, what do you do? You can't you can't just keep running the nationals and keep yourself motivated.

Don 12:31

And also the the programs are very different. Um, you got your European program, which is at the end of our national career program. So the summers and the winters don't line up. So there's a there's a burnout there as well.

Matt 12:43

Yeah, it's like the American system as well. That's why we've seen some good results from Australians in those diamond leagues um and the American months because they're in a different block. Yeah, they're in preseason while we're in trying to run our fastest times. So it's yeah, it's very different.

Multi-Sport Kids And Smart Guidance

Don 12:57

Yeah. So you know, in your opinion, you said you know, you've got all these young athletes, they they which we had Natalie Cook before when when she went through this journey, she did all the sports. Yeah, and she didn't decide. I think uh what did she say, 15 when she decided what sport she was correct right at? So they all these uh athletes go through this journey trying to figure out what uh the right sport is for them, and you know, track and field or little athletics becomes a bit of a gateway in figuring that out as well. So um how uh as uh coaches who run your own squads and um you know being coaches of one of the most elite schools in Brisbane, how do you guide them in the right direction?

Matt 13:45

Probably the the the biggest thing is with us, and and Rajiv and I are on the same page with this one, is we believe up until a certain age to do as many sports as possible. Because if they do athletics from a young age, which we do have some athletes, it's a long time to just be in that one sport. And you don't want them just doing track and field for 15, 12. Like it's it it just it's because it's so individual, such an individual sport, it's quite hard to stay in, especially if you're not getting certain results. So biggest thing is we say them, we want them doing as many sports as possible. Go and do those sports, let us know when you're doing them so we can obviously not overload. Um, but do as many sports. But by the time they sort of what age would you say?

Rajiv 14:22

Grade 11.

Matt 14:22

Yeah, about grade 11, grade, definitely probably around that grade 11 going into grade 12 is when you sort of start needing to sort of choose that sport because that's where you when you take that that step from juniors to seniors, it's a big step. Um, and you can't be playing touch or playing these these other sports, it's just quite tough to do both. So we we say up until that point, do other sports. Um, and if that means doing less of of ours, that's fine. We'll just fit it in other places and and get get them to do it that way. But because what we see a lot of the time is a lot of overload as well with those other sports, and athletics is all of a sudden they just start getting injured all the time, and then they're they're being forced to give away sports, which we don't want. So we want them to enjoy it and then eventually just fall into that track and field space.

Magnus 15:05

Are you guys in the schools in at the school? Are you specifically just training track and field athletes or is it more of an athletic running pedigree that you're chasing?

Matt 15:15

No, so I'm I'm currently the athletics director there. So I run track and field across country. So that's my focus. So I run it there and I've got Rajiv in to run the sprints and hurdles for that. So it's just track and field focused. Um Brismagrammer's setup is when other sports are on during term one, two, and three, when other sports rugby, for example, in term three, we can't touch the rugby players. So our rule is when rugby's on, the rugby players are doing rugby. It's when track and field and they don't have any clashes, then and track and field season's on in term four, they just do track and field. And then rugby can't touch them. So um we're very, very track and field based in that um school area in the future athletics where all events um in in that space for sure.

Magnus 16:00

What age group of athletes are you working with?

Matt 16:02

Well, we've got we've got three different groups now. So we've got juniors, which is sort of seven, eight-year-olds till about 10, 11. Um, and then we've got an intermediate, which is 12s to 17s, and then our opens, which is obviously eighteen to up. Um, we've got a few master athletes now, which is good. So that's starting to, and I think you've definitely you would know in that space, masters um is definitely taking off as well. The numbers are increasing. So we've got a couple of really good Nat, Nat and Flavio in that space at the moment who are doing really good. Uh I think Fabio absolutely killed it at the nationals. He killed it. He did really, really well. And Nat did Nat did amazing as well. Nat Nat was super proud of because Nat we've worked with for a little bit longer. Um and she's she's just killing it. She's high. I think she won that many gold medals, she she lost camp by the end. So she's doing really well. I think she did everything. She did everything. She did everything. High jump. She any event she can do, she just loves it.

Don 16:54

But you know, if if you can be a master of athlete and and do every event, that's yeah.

Technology Data And Coaching Judgement

Matt 16:59

And still come back in one piece. That's that's what you need.

Magnus 17:02

So what about technology? How important is that for you guys with training?

Matt 17:08

Interesting one um on that is and the way that we're set up is is very similar to what Rajiv came through with with his India base. Um and he can dive a little bit more into that. But with with his um coming through his teen years in India, they didn't have much technology. They didn't have much um accessible like accessible to them um to use. So his coach uh wrote a podcast recently talking about how he his coach used just how would you say it, he oh training techniques and things just off not much equipment and things like that, just training different training ideas.

Rajiv 17:44

No, no, this isn't back in India. I think I think the point more is being innovative, like finding what it's like when you see a young athlete is to what how you can make them improve and how to keep it fun and like you're trying to teach them different things, but also being innovative. I don't think you need a lot of equipment and stuff like that. It's just trying to be more trying to see what you can come up with to make them improve.

Don 18:05

But having data helps, right? We we are we are uh moving more and more into a data-driven world where you can collect a lot of data, just wearables, yeah, wearables, yeah, yeah. And you know, you got 1080 sprints and a lot of equipment now popping up. Yeah, they're not cheap, very expensive, because I think they're at the infancy of where they need to be, but they they collect a lot of valuable data.

Matt 18:29

Yeah, yeah.

Don 18:30

How do you think that's gonna change? Um, you know, we had we had the one end of the uh spectrum, which is uh Chris, who's hundred percent into all the data he's uh no, he loves his technology, he loves his data, loves his data nerd, and he's got you know, he's got that like absolute sort of insight into that data-driven model. Um where do you think where where is that that happy medium?

Rajiv 18:55

I think I think it's uh you need to know what you you gotta know what to do with the data. You can collect a lot of things, but if you don't know what to do with it, it's always you know, like some of it you're limited with, you know, all the numbers. I mean, like, especially in athletics, there's not a lot of variability in terms of sprinting. So if you want to run a 400 in, say, 44 seconds or something like that, you need to run the 200 in 20.5. Yeah. I mean, that's that's your baseline.

Don 19:19

I love when two coaches say exactly the same thing. Because we had Chris say the exact same thing at all data.

Rajiv 19:25

So these numbers are kind of everybody knows these numbers, right? But so you can collect all the data, but if you have a kid running 22 seconds, you can't make him run 44 with all the technology you got. Yes, you can you've got to find where how we can make the kid faster first, 22 to 21 to 20 point before you can look at these big pictures, right? So yeah. Certain things, yes, data helps and um and you can use it, but a lot of it is like every every athlete is individual. And you got to find where we can find the improvement for that for that person. And then you've got to be as innovative and as creative as you can to within limits to teach them what you're trying to teach to get there.

Don 20:02

That's where the experience comes, right? If you haven't been there and done that.

Matt 20:05

Oh, massively.

Don 20:06

And it's really hard to relate to an athlete.

Matt 20:08

And it's and it's it comes in those situations where you've got all this data, but it's just not working for that athlete. And it's and it's knowing what to do next. Or think outside the box and think of okay, we've tried this, this is the data, it's not working. Where do we go from here? And it's just thinking of ways to improve, yeah.

Magnus 20:24

Rajib, has there been something from your experience of obviously living in India and growing up in India and then living and working over in America and training over in America and then now in Australia, have you noticed any cultural differences and do you adjust any of your training techniques to suit?

Rajiv 20:42

I I think more than in terms of training, I think the especially when I was in India, we used to train a lot more. We didn't know what to do. Like, so you know, you you you have this concept of the more you train, the better you will get.

Don 20:54

So you tend to do like that's I think that's a cultural thing, too. It's the same thing growing up growing up in Sri Lanka, probably around the same time. Around the same time, yeah. Yeah. It's you run a lot.

Rajiv 21:04

Yeah, you run a lot. You think that somehow that's gonna all come in together, but you know, like um it's uh it it sometimes it does it doesn't in the sense that say if you want to like a good example, somebody gave it to me was if you want to run 100 under 10 seconds, you gotta cover the middle part of your 100 meters in 10 meters in 12. So it's 12 meters per second. So you got to cover 12 meters in one second or something like that to break. You have these numbers you got to achieve. So it doesn't matter, you can be able to run 10 kilometers in in a very fast time, but that doesn't not gonna help you to run translate translate to that. So those kind of information I think was more available in America. Like they kind of knew at that time what for what event what do you need to do. And and main thing was also exposure to these athletes. I think that comes here when you have someone else running faster times and you train with them and you're around them, you start believing maybe I can do it as well. And I think that's kind of happening to the Australian athletes as well now. You know, like the younger juniors, they're running 10-2s. I mean, we never heard of these times when it's like they're running 10-2s, the girls are running 11-2s, like uh 15, 16-year-olds. I mean, these are the times we never thought I mean like possible here at least.

Don 22:17

That's the competition that that allows for better competition, right? And that's where I think we're we are in that position. And but we need to keep these athletes here. Oh, exactly.

Nutrition Gym Recovery And Injury Risk

Matt 22:25

We don't we don't want them to keep migrating to other countries because look, we just lost Tori Tori Lewis recently. She's obviously moved over to uh Europe. Europe, I think it is, and and and now she's training over there. So it's it's just keeping that talent here, you spot on. Yeah.

Magnus 22:40

Yeah. Hey, but what about nutrition? Is that something that you guys dive into very deeply with your athletes?

Matt 22:46

Yeah, definitely. Uh we've got a nutritionist that we work with, Beck. Uh she's with the QAS and she she works with our athletes pretty closely now. Um and we've actually we've got a camp that we spoke about earlier uh down at Runaway back at the end of this year with Sally Pearson and uh Denise Boyd coming down for that. And Beck's coming down to do a talk with all the parents and the kids. Um but yeah, definitely that's it's massive to us for that one for sure. It's and it's more about what she's gonna talk to them about is is more diving into what to have on race day and what to have before and after trainings and during training sessions and how much. Um just to fuel you through those those bigger sessions and and comp dates. Um but Def, very important to us is is nutrition for sure.

Don 23:27

How much does the extracurricular activities and their other their personal sort of lives how much do you get involved as coaches? Um, because you know turning up on the track and and the two hours you spend um five times a week, and then you're competing with all of the other priorities. Yes. How much of that do you guys as coaches get involved in in their mental health, nutrition, yeah, all of these other things that sort of they bring to the track for those two hours?

Matt 24:01

Probably probably the two big ones is their nutrition and their gym. One thing we found was a lot of kids were doing different gym programs and gym training with different schools and coaches, and it was quite hard because we would have our say our tough session was on a Tuesday afternoon, lactic Tuesday, and they would go and lift on a Tuesday morning at school, and that that coach didn't know that afternoon what that happened. Um so we really struggled with that. So what Rajiv now and and myself have got set up is we do gyms at the track with all our athletes now. Um we've taken over that. Uh we just didn't want to keep seeing that happening going forward. So we're taking over their gym and their nutrition now moving forward. That's been something new that we've taken over. So we're just slowly uh progressively taking over that. Uh but that's probably the two big ones. You for the other sports, you just can't you can't want and we don't want to be those ones that say, don't do this and don't do that. We're we're we're not gonna do that. Um if we we can provide a program that they want to come to and have enough fun with and find enough success. I think automatically themselves they'll want more and more of that and less of the rest. But we don't control too much of other sports, more just the gym and nutrition, I'd say.

Rajiv 25:10

Yeah, definitely. Because the age group we work with, some of the younger ones, like you know, we do have a what's their like at least for the term, what are the sports they're doing, trying to accommodate them, trying to help them out if you know not not asking them not to do it, but if they do it, this is how we can advise advice like a couple of days of this and a couple of days of our training, because we want them to we want them to make that transition with their own kind of like when they say they want to do athletics, that's a good place to be in rather than forcing them to do anything, so kind of support them and then have you noticed some of the other sports.

Magnus 25:42

I was just thinking if it were a kid's doing athletics in term four, and then the following year in term three they're gonna go off and do rugby, that they're actually complimenting each other, like he's gonna be a better rugby player. And I'd probably like to hear from you first, Maddie, with your career when you were doing athletics and you're also doing your rugby, yeah, and were each one of those complementing each other.

Matt 26:04

Uh look, probably the easiest athletics and my sprinting compliment my rugby perfectly. It made me quicker on the field. It it it it made the difference, but rugby-wise to track the field not so much.

Magnus 26:15

Um so rugby training that you would have, even at a reasonably elite level, wouldn't make you a better sprinter.

Matt 26:20

No, not exactly, because we more obviously you you focus sort of on that. It it's not doing a sprint and then having some rest and doing another sprint, it's more continuous. So it was more fair bit of fitness and and contact and things like that. Whenever I'd come from rugby season into track pre-season again, um, or just any training, I was very unfit, very unfit, very heavy. The probably the big thing was my body at that point, so I had to be a fair bit heavier for a rugby. Um I remember I put on about eight kilos or nine kilos one year for rugby, um, and then came back. And I can say I wouldn't, yeah, when I came back, I was slow uh and I needed to lose some weight pretty quick. So Rajiv saw that. Um but no, it didn't the rugby, the fitness, yes, complemented a little bit. Um I I came back and I I would say I was rugby fit, but the the fitness and and what you need for track rugby, no, definitely didn't help me that much.

Don 27:12

Would that have attributed to your uh injuries? Because one of the things I see is those the kids who are doing two or three things.

Matt 27:20

Yeah.

Don 27:22

Most of the injuries I would say is because of the different types of Yeah, like look, definitely.

Matt 27:29

Um one thing we've found with obviously your sports, like your rugby and your soccer is is doing a lot of running in boots. Um that's what we found. We we hate the the we hate that they're in boots so often because boots are not supportive at all. And we find that they have a lot of shin shin problems and things like that. And they're going from doing so much running in boots and then they come out on to the track and then their bodies are just taking the beating. So we like when they come back, we put them in joggers for a long time instead of spikes. We put them on the grass and we keep them away from the track as much as possible. But uh definitely it definitely contributes um because of the twisting and the change of direction and things like that. It takes its toll on the body. Um, but yeah, I think it definitely definitely has an effect injuries-wise.

Don 28:10

You said, you know, you guys have um strength and conditioning and and nutrition now. Not many squads would give that type of support or or service. No. What about recovery?

Matt 28:21

Yeah, recovery is that so we've just hired a guy, Jared Bos Boswell, um, from I I worked with him at Churchy for 10 years. Um and he's just come over and he's taken over strength conditioning and and recovery for us. Um so all your athletes have access to all of these services so they can have access to all of it now because we've hired Jared on on board as of part of Future Athletics. Um so now he he brings that component to it. So he's taken care of the recovery, all the he's got uh access to a lot of technology and things like that for recovery and all the recovery booths and everything. So he takes care of all their recovery programs, all their gym programs, he comes to the sessions, and we've seen that make a massive difference. Um it allows us to take a step back and the athletes to hear from not just revenue all the time, yeah, a different voice and a different opinion so that in the gym they're not just dealing with us, they're also they've got Jared, who's that that's his sole focus, is that gym and recovery space.

Magnus 29:17

Yeah, wow.

Mindset Training For Real Humans

Matt 29:18

Yeah.

Magnus 29:19

When you're looking at uh the junior athletes, and then you're obviously working with adults as well, is that does uh how does the training technique vary? And uh Rajiva, you take care of more of the older athletes?

Rajiv 29:32

Yeah, we work together for the juniors and the media. Yeah, I I think I think every it's like um uh at the younger age, you're just kind of exposing them to different things, the events they're they're they're doing other things sports-wise, and also they're kind of understanding what athletics is about. A lot of the kids, when they join the squad, they have no idea what it what this is all about. So for us, it's to it's to kind of give them an exposure to not only sprinting, but other events as well, make it a bit of fun. So kind of preparing them for like getting, we don't know what event they're gonna be successful at. There are very few you can right away say, okay, you've got to be such an elite sprinter. You might be elite at the at the at the local level, but as you get to the next level, you're not fast anymore.

Magnus 30:11

So just on that, how do you how do you say that? What's the X factor?

Rajiv 30:15

Well, some things when a kid runs or a person runs, he can you can see to an extent how quick, how much time they spend on the ground. There's some natural ability in that. But also we have had kids who didn't look that great and suddenly went on to become really good at 14.

Matt 30:28

I mean, yeah, one of the things that Roy Easton is a great example.

Rajiv 30:35

Before Gartgard broke the record in GPS, he he he ran 10-4. There are a lot of hurdlers like that uh who were not that great when they were young. But you see something in them, like first of all, is the is like they're kind of coordinated. They they show some glimpses of some talent. So if you can put it together, but it takes time. Like most of our athletes who just uh come to our scourt from through, I don't know, school programs.

Magnus 31:00

Yeah, school programs and so they're they're they're built and not born. So you can actually build that athlete and they're not necessarily just born talented.

Don 31:09

Yeah.

Magnus 31:09

What about mentally? Because that's the thing, you see the difference.

Don 31:13

Sorry to cut you off, but if you do have the talent, like if you look at someone like Guad Guad, that's he's he's got an advantage or everyone else.

Matt 31:21

There's there's a few athletes, such as Ash Maloney and things like that. There's ones that just it didn't matter where they went or who they were coached by, they were always going to do well. And it's more about maintaining them and keeping them on the train. You know, that dude's just a gifted athlete. So but you don't get a majority of them are not like that, no.

Rajiv 31:40

That's why it takes time for us. Like most of our athletes who are doing very well in the in the under 20s, when they get to 18 or 23, 24, like that kind of stuff. We got some very good elite athletes in the squad. And all took time. I mean, they came in as normal kids for some of them, 12, 13, 14 years of age, they've been with us for 10 years. It took us took us that much time to get them to that level.

Magnus 32:04

Is there much sorry? Is there much work you do on them mentally? And is there anything that's a standout that you can see in the athletes from that mental perspective, mental strength, mental resilience, we've talked about a number of times on the on the show here in the past. So I'm just curious, is is uh again, is that something you can see within with that individual athlete? They've got a level of tenaciousness, for example.

Rajiv 32:26

Yeah, I mean you you get kids of different types. Some kids are you can see right away they're born with it, some kids are not confident, but as they get better in the sport, they start running faster, then you can see that they're more confident, the way they walk, they go to attract meet, everything changes. So you also got to you got to provide them the skill and the tools to be confident. You can't just say, you know, if you're running 12 seconds and you're in a race of 11 seconds, it doesn't matter how old.

Magnus 32:48

So does that play a big part of your coaching program? So just a physical and how much do you apply into the mental.

Don 32:53

Actually, I I am really interested in this because growing up, you know, the the the the the mental game didn't exist in a coach's head. You just yeah, you should just run. And you know, the the the the anxieties and all of that, that was all ignored, right? Yeah that part was never there and it was like my it wasn't my coach's problem. Oh, yeah, of course. So has that changed?

Matt 33:15

Is that is there a there's definitely been a a big culture change as well as is there's a lot more things on on on athletes' minds now. We'll you've got technology and you've got all these other things, and now you've got Instagram and all these socials that we didn't have back then when we were sprinting. You didn't have these moving things on your mind and looking at these messages at training and things like that. We just rocked up the track. We knew what we had to do, we spoke to our coach, and you just went and trained. Um definitely athletes now, it's it's more about the little things and little situations. Like you'll have ones that are just struggling on that day. They're they're just not feeling it, they're not feeling great. It's just about those little conversations about flicking that switch and just telling them, look, get through these last two reps after these last two reps, you're done, you can recover. It's about just switching that mindset of, okay, I don't have two more reps to get through. It's you only have two more reps to go. After that, you're done, you can recover, you've got plenty of time to rest.

Don 34:06

But how as a coach, how do you guys prepare for that and and train yourselves? Because one of the um, you know, the biggest things that's coming as we talk to more and more elite athletes, it's just that that uh sports performance coaching piece is as important as the technical piece. Ken Riley talked about this. We had Dan Hunt, he was talking about that mental piece when Wayne Bennett was supporting him in that that piece, and he called Wayne Bennett probably the best coach because of that, what he did. How do you um how do you as coaches, how do you train yourself to train?

Rajiv 34:42

I think it's it's it's it's every I mean the the what we tell the athletes when you're coaching them, it's an everyday thing. Like, you know, it's it's all the small all the small cues and small tips you do how to get through that. It's all those ads up when you go to the bigger meet, so like how to perform. Basically, we're talking about training and how do you perform. And why do you get nervous and why do you get anxious is sometimes your mind is going all over the place. Like, you know, I'm gonna finish last, I'm not gonna run well, what are people gonna say? All these things are going through your mind that causes anxiousness. So kind of understanding the athlete, like let's focus if it's a hurdler, let's just focus on the first hurdle, let's just think about that, block everything out. But that thing is not just for the track, even in training. Yeah. Let's just focus on that one. Keep your once you cross the first hurdle, the second one, say it could be in the hundred meters, the blocks, kind of like um divide or uh dividing the race into bits and into parts where they can focus on it. And as long as you uh we feel like if your brain has something to focus on and you're working towards something, even when you're sprinting, somebody watches a hundred meters and just sees a hundred meters. But there are a lot of things happening in an athlete's mind. But you can break it down in your mind what to focus on in a different phase of your hundred meters or two hundred or four hundred. As long as I feel as long as the athlete is thinking about these things, or like focusing on that particular aspect, I think that reduces the anxiousness. Anxiousness comes from like not anything to think about and the end result. So trying to, but we go through that every day in practice.

Matt 36:12

And that's probably uh, and on the on the top of that, it to answer your question on how we train ourselves is being in that situation every single day with different ages. So as we have our junior intermediate senior group, you've got all different personalities, all different ages as they're going through different things. To train being in the situation is the best training possible. Like we deal with with athletes and different ages that have all different issues. Um and dealing with that on a daily basis is the best training you could possibly do. Um, because we deal with training, we deal with it during the day when they call us and have issues with schooling and grades and things like this. It's being able to deal with them at that time with what their issue is and being able to then get the best out of it. Um and to be honest, we've been thrown some thrown some interesting situations with different athletes and the young ones and going through school and things like that, and also being an athlete, and we've had to then think on our feet in that. To be honest, that's the best training as coaches for us. Um, because after the last probably five years, now that our group's grown massively, um, it's definitely trained us uh compared to where we were five years ago, completely different. Completely different.

Rajiv 37:22

And you get different kind of challenges because the older athletes think we've got relationship issues, they could have work issues, all kinds of stuff happening, and then they've got to go and perform, whereas the younger ones, the different whatever whatever the issues are doing.

Don 37:35

The advice in the old days used to be you've got to leave it. It's the same advice at work sometimes. People give you, so you've got to leave your problems at the fence or the at the door. It's impossible. It's it's not realistic.

Matt 37:47

Oh, it's not ri it's it's not realistic now. And it's it's more about you just got to deal with it face on and and and just on the spot, just get it out and fix it as quick as possible. Um, because otherwise it'll just keep adding up and building up in a little event. But unfortunately, we were we didn't have any other you didn't and it and it wasn't really a thing, and that you didn't you didn't hear it on TV every day that there was all these the mental health and all that. You you weren't getting pushed down at through the news like you are now. Back then it was nothing, it was just you you train and and you train hard and so let's not talk about it, let's just get this session done. And it was just dealt with differently back then for sure. Yeah.

Magnus 38:24

What do you guys do personally to stay in shape?

Matt 38:28

Stay in shape. Oh, myself. I play a bit of footy myself. Um, so I'm back playing a a little bit. I'm I'm dabbling into a little bit of sevens again, but I'm playing a fair bit of OzTag and and stuff like that socially. So um and I go to the gym a little bit as well. Um, not as much as what I'd like, depending on how busy my days are, but uh definitely a little bit of that and uh getting a little bit of running in at cardio and gym and footies that been my thing.

Don 38:51

Yeah. How do we get the fastest man in India to get back to uh masters at the end? Good luck, good luck, good luck. The way you guys are, I'm not fit at all. So that's that's a that's a frame of mind. We can change that, get you back on again.

Matt 39:06

It'll be a surprise if you if you start running. I tell you, you still got it, but you won't you won't have it.

Magnus 39:11

It's an amazing title the more I think about it. The fastest blake in India. I mean, that's a pretty big accolade, isn't it? The thing is, there's over a billion people in India.

Don 39:20

So like to be the fastest everybody's not going to run fast. Doesn't matter if any many saying, but you know it's not as big as you think.

Magnus 39:30

I'd just I'd take it anyway.

Matt 39:32

Yeah, no, it's it's it's massive. It's it uh like I said, the modesty was was is always there, boys.

Building Great Hurdlers From Scratch

Don 39:38

But uh you guys are if you if you look at all the um disciplines you you train in track and feel, you guys are probably one of the most more elite hurdling squads. So I'm you know growing up, I was a 110 meter hurdler and that that transition into 400 meters. So that's I have a passion. Yeah, that's a you're a commanded information. How did you become this elite hurdle squad?

Rajiv 40:06

Well, I mean, my background is like um uh mainly being hurdled. I mean, I was printing and hurdling, but hurdling is what got me into uh I mean I guess more success. Because I feel like um I mean sprinting is you can improve, but you need tremendous amount of talent. I mean, like to make it right.

Matt 40:23

And it's so competitive.

Rajiv 40:25

It's very competitive. And even if you're very fast at a local level, international level, but adding uh uh technical component to it just makes a But technically the hurdle is for me it's a lot more difficult than a hundred meters needs talent plus power and technique.

Don 40:44

Yeah.

Rajiv 41:00

I mean, there are other some physical aspects to it because the height of the hurdle is so high, you've got to be a tall athlete, you've got to be six one, six two too. Try setting that to Colin Jackson. Yeah, I mean nine nine. That's what I was gonna say. If you're gonna be five ten, you're gonna be a nine-nine runner. But say if you're not and you're six one six two, but you can run ten five, you can find a way to be elite athlete. Same thing in the form of the hurdles as well, like especially for females. The height is seventy-six centimeters. Yeah. I don't know if I mean uh Don would know, it's just a very small. The girls are about five ten. The height is so less.

Magnus 41:32

That's the average height of a desk.

Rajiv 41:34

Yeah, exactly. And at 76 centimeters, it's it's barely above their knee for these girls. And if you're running a 51 seconds, 50 seconds, 400 meter flat, there's no reason not to do for the hurdles because that puts you in the Olympic final. 50 seconds right now, the way 50 seconds would barely probably get you out of the heat.

Don 41:52

Especially if you have the height, it makes perfect sense. Yeah, exactly.

Rajiv 41:55

So you add a technical component to it, it could be the speed, could be a long jumper. So the are uh the way we're approaching it is teaching the kids.

Don 42:03

So you're saying LEBA should be a 400 meter hurdler?

Rajiv 42:06

Anybody should be a girl.

Matt 42:07

Because the big thing is, and Rajiv's always said, and we're and sometimes when we're talking to parents and athletes, we're not gonna we're not telling you to stop the 100 and 200, we're not telling you to stop your favorite events, we're just adding something on. If you're gonna go do hurdles, it doesn't mean stop the events you're currently doing. It's just adding something else on. Because if you make an Australian team for hurdles and all of a sudden a hundred runner pulls up injured, but you've also got this time down for 100, you didn't make the team for it, but you were up there, you might also make a four by one one slot here and there. You can always be that backup. So it just gives you some more options, especially making those top teams, which I've learned from Rajiv big time.

Rajiv 42:43

Yeah, I think it's good fun for the kids as well, some technical events and they seem to enjoy.

Don 42:47

So, how do you become a hurdler? How do you become a good hurdler? Because it's so many components to it. You need speed, you need to learn how to jump over a stick once you get to a point. It's like over a meter. So how do you get someone there? And what do you have to do to be be good?

Rajiv 43:05

Oh, I think it's a process like it takes time. For the especially for male, men's want to hurdle because the height keeps going up. For the female, it's a bit different, it's a bit easier, I would say, because the height is only one job. For the male athlete, it keeps going up from 15, 16, 18, 20, and men's height. So you've got to start, you know, at every every every height you're gonna find the challenges, what they have to learn. But if you start at a certain age, I think it's just keep working at it.

Matt 43:33

There's no easy answer to that one.

Don 43:35

It's crazy, right? You gotta have three steps between those hurdles, and you you're every time you jump, you're building more and more momentum. But you still have to maintain those three steps. Yeah. How do you teach someone that like it's one of the hardest for me, uh I found it was one of the hardest technicals.

Rajiv 43:51

I think that's where for when you start a bit early at fourteen, fifteen years of age, because that three step never changes. You always take three steps, even on the highest.

Don 43:58

Regardless of the high.

Rajiv 43:59

So Think that I've been built in you to take three steps.

Don 44:02

So it's better to start earlier as a hurdler than than trying to get in.

Rajiv 44:06

Especially the fear of it and stuff like that as well.

Matt 44:09

Yeah, exactly. And and actually, that was literally what I was about to go into is the fear part of it is what Rajiv and I are are doing and what we've done, what he's done for a while is he takes care of all the hurdles. It's it's amazing to watch, but he gets our younger ones, our junior ones into it. If it's 10 minutes as warm-up, if it's every session, they they just do a little bit here and there of the technique and the steps, and he just gets them just doing little drills of going over the hurdle and over the hurdle.

Don 44:34

I've seen that. I was wondering why you were getting there.

Matt 44:37

And it's just 10 minutes. They that they might not be hurdlers, they they might, but it also is great for plymetrics. It's great for some jumps, it's great for those plymetrics, all those sprinting to do.

Magnus 44:47

What's plymetrics?

Matt 44:48

What is plymetrics?

Rajiv 44:49

Oh any kind of jumping activity. You're trying to build explosive power, but it could like anything jumping is considered a plymetrics, but it could be hard plymetrics as well, more like box jumps, all that is comes under plymetrics, but hurdling because you're jumping over it is a lot of it.

Matt 45:05

And about spending less time on the ground. So it's just about that speeding up the process of spending less time on the ground and improves your sprinting and and everything, to be honest.

Magnus 45:13

What's the what's the toughest conversation you guys have had to have with an athlete? Got a story for us? Toughest conversation.

Rajiv 45:20

It's about lack of improvement. You know, a lot of times what happens is he could do all the right things as a coach. And he could be going through this is more with the senior athlete. He could go through a great training block, but the times don't come. I mean, that's athletics, you know. Like it's at the year after the times might come because of what you did the previous year. Those are very tough, especially as the athlete gets older, older athletes, uh younger ones as well, but mainly with the senior athletes when they're putting a lot of effort into it, obviously, their elevated life, their work, and they're judging so many things and the improvements don't happen. I mean, the coach is the first place they come to.

Magnus 45:56

It's always the coach's fault.

Matt 45:57

It's always the coach's fault. And and look, to be honest, on the back of that is what I've found is one of the hardest ones is ones that have found a lot of success early on at a young age by either being a lot larger than the other kids and taller and and a little bit more athletic and and grown a little bit quicker, but and then they've struggled later on and and explaining to them the process of this is going to happen and why it's happening. Uh, that's probably the hardest conversation to have when they have success early on and then all of a sudden that doesn't continue like they thought um or got told it was going to. Uh, that's definitely probably the toughest conversations I've had is is explaining that.

Don 46:36

How do you how do you tell an athlete when it's time?

Rajiv 46:41

I think that the athlete decide for themselves. I mean, like I don't think I think everybody As a coach, have you ever had to approach that? More of laying it out, this is where we are at. I mean, like where what frame of mind they're in, like, you know, if they still I don't want them to, because for a lot of the athletes when they start at 20 or 13 or 14, this has been their life, you know, like their social life as well as Yeah, but that that that's what I was asking for.

Don 47:04

If you give the athletes a choice, you know, they'd never want to leave, like more track and feel. They'll they'll find a way to keep staying, find a win how to be part of it, because it's been their life for most of that.

Magnus 47:14

I reckon it's a positive. Like, why should you stop? And if the athlete's got that level of of But you have to have a realistic frame of mind on what you want to do.

Matt 47:22

Yeah, well it's it's like anything. Like when when I gave it away myself, I gave it away because I couldn't do it socially. I I I could only do it if I was gonna be competitive, and if I wasn't gonna be competitive and possibly win that it depends what your goals are too. Mine was only I would only do it if I was gonna be competitive at nationals and make Australian teams. And at that point, my body wasn't letting me, so no, I didn't want to do it socially. Uh and I gave it up real quick. Um, and it's just different. Depends what your goals are. Depends what you what you want to do.

Rajiv 47:49

That's an older athlete who are kind of 27, 28, and they've done it for so long and they know they're not going anywhere. Kind of get involved as like helping other coaches as well, like keep them involved in the sport because they have a lot to get them hands-on with the junior program a little bit, and and so that transition's a little bit easier.

Masters Athletics For Life And Belonging

Don 48:06

But it's the same for a master's athlete as well. I'd say that's probably one of the reasons why you're you still haven't got in. Because if you got in, gave it the time, you would be better than most of the masters athletes that's there because you would have the found you would have the foundational work. Let me like, you know. Yeah, I would agree with that. For me, for me, it's the same, it was the same thing. I wouldn't I didn't want to be a back master's athlete if I wasn't competing and I wanted to win, because that's what I knew for most of my life when I was um, you know, when I was a professional athlete. So for me, getting back into it, that transitional period to get back into was really hard because you're still in your mind running three times. Yeah. So yeah, so it's it's a matter of time. You expect to run the times you're used to, yeah. Yeah, that's right. And you can't do it, and you've got to get your head around that. And it's the purpose you want to do it. Yeah, I'll I only wanted to do it if I could compete. But for me to be able to compete, that was a bit of work that I needed to put in. Yeah. On that, can I ask you guys trained? You know, you said there's more and more masters at least coming in, which I'm really glad that it's happening because it's not just for you know the the masters, athletes themselves, but it's really good for the community. It's it's it's good for mental health. Yeah, you know, our aging populations becoming bigger and bigger. I'm trying to get more people get involved in this. And track and field is, you know, one of those things where it's not that hard to do because you've got everything from a sprint to a cross-country. You've got a lot of events to choose from. Yeah. Right. Um, how do you train a master's athlete versus a junior athlete or an elite athlete?

Rajiv 49:42

I think it's the volume which we got to be very much aware of. For a young kid, you can volume, you can you can tell them a lot of things, they recover like that the next day. Obviously, with a master's athlete, you've got to be careful in how much volume you you you you're going to make them go through. And also more rest in between, I think, is the key. I mean, like, you know, a lot of master athletes are very driven because that's something we've got. They've done athletics in the past, they've taken a break, and now they're like, that's it. Let's go and train every every day. So it's like kind of finding a balance for that, like having a hard session recovery, still asking them to do certain things, go to the gym, go a stretch, do a light workout, but also keep it active but having the sessions.

Magnus 50:21

So with masters athletes that are coming into the program, what ages are you seeing? 35-year-olds or 55-year-olds roll in? You have to be over 30.

Matt 50:29

Yeah, you have to be over over 30. Um so uh Fabio, he's he's a little bit on the he's got 60, early 60s. So we've yeah, he's running like a 50-year-old. Running like a 50 year old running with a 40-year-old to be honest. I think he's running so fast. He's an ex-athlete. Ex-athlete. Um and just loves it.

Rajiv 50:48

Yeah, ex-athlete.

Matt 50:49

Uh what was his song?

Rajiv 50:50

Yeah, I don't know much about his background, but he definitely had a gap in between. Like, you know, he was an athlete when he was young. I don't know what level he competed at, but there was a gap, and then he started to that's one of the good things, right?

Don 51:00

We don't really ask, we don't care if if someone's been an elite athlete before. We've probably our best, most successful female athlete didn't start running until she was 35. And she's won more medals and holds more records than any other track and field athlete in Australia. It's incredible. And she's a master's athlete, and she didn't start running until she's in her 30s.

Matt 51:21

And with those situations, it all depends on how much they've done. Like if they've done athletics for 20 years as a as a junior and then all of a sudden try to get back into it. Later, your body's taking that toll. But if that and they did it for a few years, gave it away, came back, they're fresh as a daisy, they're ready to go.

Don 51:35

How do you take away the sort of, you know, there's used to be a lot of stigma about going and being a master's athlete. Like you're at elite level. How do we get more people to be involved in masters athletics?

Matt 51:46

But I think it's just going to naturally happen with the results and the way that athletics is building and the hype and the atmosphere around it. Like the Melbourne Track Classic, that that was sold out for the first time in years and years and years. Uh, and that'll automatically make those masters athletes or ones that are thinking about getting into it. There's more hype around it, there's more, more master athletes going, then that that'll encourage them to automatically give it a go.

Magnus 52:10

So crowd attracts a crowd.

Matt 52:11

Crowd attracts a crowd. It's like anything. It's it's like uh it's like when you support a rugby league team and they're they they're losing, the the crowds drop, and all of a sudden when they're winning again, the jersey comes out of the closet. So it's like with track and field. Track and field at the moment, like you said, we're having a gold mirror. Uh, with all these results, all of a sudden everyone is loving athletics, loving track and field.

Magnus 52:30

So those old boys are dusting off the uh dusting off the rotten.

Matt 52:33

Yeah, yeah, if if he can, that'd be great. But no, a lot a lot of others are, I can, I can tell you. And they're they're thinking about it.

Magnus 52:39

Well, it's interesting because of your pedigree with going to churchy, like there's a big old boys um culture in that school. It's an absolute cult. And I think that's uh one thing in a my brand that um that I'm wearing at the moment, that's what a passion I've got. So guys in their 50s, because so many blokes at my age, they were first 15 at school, they're first 11, and all of a sudden they go off and it's university, life gets in the way. Yeah, and kids kids come, but then all of a sudden, you know, you start to get the five rolling around with your age, yeah, and that's when you start can contemplate, and chances are you might have a little bit of finance behind you, and it's like get back into something, but something that you enjoy doing because a very, very marked purpose-lize, spirit-led. So it's something that you actually enjoy doing, and quite often that's something that you are good at. Yeah, but it doesn't necessarily have to be going back, you know, donning on a rugby jersey, but just getting just movement.

Don 53:36

It's purpose, right?

Magnus 53:37

You have to have the purpose.

Matt 53:38

Yes, but and what I've found massively is especially because of social media and things like that, you run clubs and everything and are becoming such a massive cult in itself. Run clubs have extract. Run clubs loaded blown, blown up. And and more in that, those those 50A drips as well, more and more are going because there's hundreds of other people there. So they they feel more comfortable to go. And it's definitely an encouraging thing. Uh, more and more run clubs are definitely better.

Magnus 54:03

Yeah, so bring on the masters athletes.

Matt 54:05

Bring on the masters athletes and uh yeah, bring them on.

Rajiv 54:08

Some of the meets they are incorporating with the all the all age groups, right? Like in Oceania last year.

Don 54:13

Yeah, we're at Oceania, we um we have a few, and you know, you've got the the big uh organizations leading the way too. So if you look at Masters Athletics in the US is now part of USATF, yeah. I think we need that migration to happen across. Um there is a bit of a divide between how the masters programs run versus Athletics Australia programs in Australia. Um, I think once when we can um you know combine and collaborate more, um start working together eventually, and that's what needs to happen. If you look at it, what's happening in the USATF, you know, the masters athletes wear the same uniform as what the you know US team wears, whereas in in Australia it's you feel separate.

Matt 55:01

If you make them feel part of it, it'll change that.

Don 55:03

Right. And change you know, what what's the difference whether if you're junior? So I the best way I put it is when you're a junior, you know, you're improving with age, and that's where there is a separation in in age gaps. Yes. And then you go to an open level, then that's elite. Yeah. And then at a certain age, uh there's the opposite of what happened before is happening again. So you're that's where the age groups are because you're deteriorating at a different age level. So I think we've got the system put in place really to complement so people can be active and competitive for the rest of their lives if they want to. Correct. We just don't have the infrastructure and the politics uh looking at it in the same way. And if we do that, I think there's so much value that can be added to our mental health problems and also to our uh issues we're having in in healthcare.

Magnus 55:53

Before we wrap up and get into the quick fire questions, what haven't we talked about that we should talk about?

Matt 55:59

That's a good question. That's a good question in itself. Um that's a very good question. Anything?

Don 56:06

Anything that comes to mind? Judy, I want to ask about your uh the camp that you guys are organizing because that's that's something unique. I haven't seen a lot of it happening. Yeah um, you know, there's a there's a few Melbourne clubs that that that do it, but this is very much an American thing, these sports camps. Yeah, look in and to get someone like Sally Pearson, probably one of the most successful athletes. I don't think people ever didn't realize how good she was.

Matt 56:31

Oh, she was incredible. Um, and she was around my time as as I was coming through as an athlete of watching her success, and Rajiv watched it as well, being being around that uh the athletic space as well. But this is our first camp. Um, Future Athletics is definitely going in direction I never thought it would be. I thought it was going to be Sprints and Hurdles, Rajiv and I, and we'd keep doing that. But now we've brought Michael Hillard on board um to take care of our middle distance. Michael Hillard um was a world indoor champion. Um, he was sixth in the world for 1500 um absolute world class two semifinals at the Olympics. He's come on board um for Brisbane grammar and also future athletics. He's taken care of our middle distance. Uh we've got Eric Brown, um, who's taking care of our long jump now, long jump and triple jump. So he's come into that space. Eric Brown, obviously, very, very impressive coach, credentials-wise, um, Sergio Dupla, Nash Maloney and the likes, many more. Uh, and he's taken care of our jump space. And what we've sort of put together now is a space where any event they want to do, they can come straight to us and they can come and get sprints and hurdles and middle distance. And we overlook the whole program. And we've found that that's that's worked really well. And and that's probably sparked the the idea of a camp because we've got all these different groups. They train, we train together, and the middle distance come and do some speed start speed work with us, and the jumpers do speed work and then go to the jumps coach and things like that. But I definitely wanted a camp where we can we spend a bit more time together as a squad, getting to know each other because we only see each other at the track and when we compete. Um, so we've got Sally Pearson on board to she's this is our first one this year down at Runaway Bay. Denise Boyd's coming down to do a bit of a talk about how her story was coming through as a junior and all the way through. And she was very impressive as a sprinter herself, um, holding Australian records as such. And Beck's coming down to do a nutritionist talk. Uh, we've got Kieran Cusack, um, who takes care of treating all our athletes. Um, so he takes care of all their posture work as a young kid all the way through, the way they sleep, the way they walk, the way they run. Um, he worked really closely in that spade and treats them when they have injuries. Um and luckily enough, they don't have too many now with him on board. Um so he's come and do a talk about what stretchers should do during the week before races, uh post-races and at night and before race day and things like that.

Magnus 58:47

I've never heard of a posture coach before.

Don 58:50

Oh, I was gonna ask what is a posture coach?

Matt 58:52

I'll do it. The best way to explain it, Rajiv actually sent me myself to Kieran when I was 12 years old. And I, because of rugby and things like that, my shoulders and everything used to just be slouched over and I used to have the worst posture ever. And when then when I'd go to sprinting, I couldn't actually do what Rajiv asked me to because I was tight here and I'd run like this and I was closed up and he kept trying to say, open up and do this, but my body just wouldn't let me. Where Kieran worked on, he did some balance work with me. So he made a balance board and we did some balance work. He always worked on how my shoulders had sit when I'm sitting and things like that. Um, like sitting down in a chair and while I was driving, things like that was wrong. So he he actually made a cushion thing to go under on my seat to actually lift my hips up so I was sitting properly. So there's little things about even the way that I walked, about just getting off my heel a little bit where I was very heavy on my feet, where it just taught me to be light on my feet, which then to sprinting was perfect because it was just all about spending less time on the ground, being less off my heel and things like that. So he actually fixed things later on in life, not just sprinting, but after I give sport away, how I should be sleeping and walking and sitting and everything. So he he was definitely a game changer for in that sport space for me. He was he was incredible. Awesome.

Don 1:00:07

Yeah. You're on the Gold Coast uh on the board of Gold Coast Academy of Sport.

Magnus 1:00:13

Wow.

Matt 1:00:13

And then yeah, it's it's so it's that's exciting. That'll be definitely something we'll be more to talk about. And the uh look and the other thing which is just off the topic as well is we've got a clothing line dropping. It's cool for future athletics. Future athletics. Mate of mine actually, he uh Andy, who's actually the clothes designer, he he came from it from future aesthetic uh aesthetics and then came with future athletics. So he uh he thought of the name and and went into that space and uh and what you're wearing now? Yeah, uh this isn't a clothing line now, this is just what we've got done, but I'm not wearing any of it just yet. I want to see on everyone else.

Don 1:00:45

You're actually creating a whole new whole clothing line.

Matt 1:00:47

So it's gonna be lifestyle and sportswear, men's and women's. So we're gonna have sort of crop top and bottoms for our uh women athletes to run and junior athletes, and then we'll have running singlets and running shorts and tights, and we've got socks and hoodies and trackies and just normal t-shirts, lifestyle gear as well. So hopefully the parents, we can see the parents in it and on the sidelines and things like that. So athletics for fashion. That's athletics for fashion. So that's definitely not me. It's it's Andy. Andy's uh uh clothes designer, a good mate of mine, Andy Andy Wilson, and he's taking care of all that. Uh yeah, running. It's exciting. So it's it's definitely expanding in a way that I never thought. I thought it was like I said, I it was just gonna be sprints and hurdles. But now we're gonna hopefully have a few people, might just be the family members of ours wearing our clothes, but we'll we'll we'll see. We'll see.

Quick Fire Lessons And Final Takeaways

Magnus 1:01:34

All right. Are we ready?

Matt 1:01:36

Ed, go for it.

Magnus 1:01:37

Favorite track session to coach.

Matt 1:01:40

Easy speed. They never complain during speed session.

Magnus 1:01:44

The least favorite drill you had to do as an athlete.

Matt 1:01:48

I would say A skip. A skip when I first started, anything with a bit of coordination I struggle with for sure.

Magnus 1:01:54

Yeah, same.

Matt 1:01:55

Yeah.

Magnus 1:01:56

Olympics or world champs, which gave you more goosebumps?

Matt 1:01:59

Olympics all day long.

Magnus 1:02:00

Olympics is the beyond land or who's the most inspiring athlete of all time?

Rajiv 1:02:09

Tough one.

Matt 1:02:11

Mine would have to be Michael Jordan for sure. Michael Jordan's probably my my one.

Magnus 1:02:14

What's the best piece of coaching advice that you've ever received to hear?

Rajiv 1:02:19

Oh, I would probably go one of those Jesse Owens or one of those guys we didn't have much support, and then there's still the moment with Ali what it is to say both tough to go past as well.

Don 1:02:29

Yeah. Yeah. I was gonna say Jesse Owens too, because that a lot of people don't talk about Jesse Owens.

Magnus 1:02:33

So the best piece of coaching advice you've ever received.

Matt 1:02:38

Ah, from Rajiv, to me, I would I would I'd probably say don't overthink it. It was definitely his don't overthink it, simplify it. It was probably definitely the best one from Rajiv for sure.

Rajiv 1:02:50

Yeah, I would say sometimes we think it too take it too seriously when you're able to compete. You're not that important in this world, you know. Just go and do it, just go and compete, relax.

Matt 1:02:58

One thing Rajiv always you say, don't think, just run.

Magnus 1:03:01

Speed or mindset, which wins under pressure?

Matt 1:03:05

Speed. You have to have the speed first. You have to you can have the best mindset. If you don't have the speed, you won't win.

Magnus 1:03:11

Coffee order.

Matt 1:03:13

I'm a piccolo man myself.

Magnus 1:03:16

What song gets you fired up before a big session?

Matt 1:03:21

Here comes the boomers for me.

Rajiv 1:03:23

That was uh that was my big one. Oh my you always want to know if I'm all LinkedIn.

Magnus 1:03:33

Someone might know one word that athletes would use to describe you.

Matt 1:03:44

Oh, one word.

Rajiv 1:03:53

You go first, you go yours first. Mine People think I'm very patient or I'm not, my mind is racing competitive.

Magnus 1:04:04

Your coaching style in three words. How would you describe your coaching style?

Matt 1:04:11

In three words. Do your best. More like a problem solver. And I analyze it and solve the problem. Right. Yeah. Don't count, don't count. We're not great at math.

Magnus 1:04:27

This is Rajiv to Maddie. What's one thing he does better than you?

Rajiv 1:04:33

Communication, uh, explaining things to parents, making people feel comfortable by the win the squad. Everything what I can't do, he doesn't.

Magnus 1:04:42

And and Maddie to Rajiv, what's one thing you admire about him?

Matt 1:04:46

Oh, admire about him. Uh how well the athletes can respect him and look up to him. Um and his expertise in the field is just uh yeah, unparalleled. He's just ridiculous in that field. Um, but definitely just the respect he can get from athletes. Uh as an athlete of his, now that now we're best mates, for to have that relationship come was just a complete respect thing. Everyone has respect for a chief.

Magnus 1:05:10

All right. Final question. What's the one trait that you need to be a successful athlete?

Matt 1:05:17

One trait. Drive. Just drive. Yep. Drive. Determination.

Magnus 1:05:24

Determination.

Matt 1:05:25

You want you want to do it.

Magnus 1:05:27

Uh belief.

Matt 1:05:28

Yeah, if you never give up and you just believe in yourself and you just you're driven enough to just keep going, eventually good things will happen.

Magnus 1:05:35

Fantastic. Thanks so much for taking the time to come in, boys. It's been an awesome conversation. Love what you guys are doing. Bring on that clothing range and uh bring on 2032. Thank you.

Matt 1:05:44

Yeah, thank you very much. Thanks for your time, guys. Thanks, guys, all the best. Thank you.

Magnus 1:05:50

Hope you enjoyed this exciting episode of the Mastering Podcast. If you got value from today's conversation, hit that subscribe button now and share this episode with a friend. Until next time.