Nearly 50 And Keeping Up

Dom Hind

Hi, I'm Dom Hind, and fuck, I'm nearly 50. Actually, I'm 48 and a half, and really starting the countdown now. There's this moment that starts creeping up on us a lot in our 40s. On paper, life looks pretty good, careers ticking along, families growing up, house, responsibilities, routine. But somewhere in the middle of all that, the world starts changing. Not slowly, fast. New technology, new ways of working, new ways of thinking. And suddenly there's this quiet question: Am I keeping up? Because most of us spend decades building careers in a world that made sense. Study hard, work hard, build the career, keep everything moving. And then the rules change. Artificial intelligence is suddenly everywhere, changing how we work, learn, create, and even think. For some people, that's exciting. For others, it's a bit overwhelming. And for a lot of people, it still feels like something to figure out later. But for others, and I'd put myself in that camp, it's already part of daily life. A thinking partner, a creative tool, a way of solving problems faster. And the gap between those two groups is getting bigger fast. Which brings me to today's guest. Darwood Nord is one of Australia's leading voices on artificial intelligence and the founder of Pathfinder, an AI innovation studio helping organizations actually use AI in the real world. But what makes Darwood interesting isn't that he just understands the tech, he understands what this shift means for humans. Because this isn't just about faster software, it's about something much bigger. For most of history, intelligence was scarce. You had to find experts, read books, study for years. Now it's everywhere. You can open your laptop and collaborate with something that can help you write, think, analyze, learn. So if intelligence is no longer scarce, what happens next? Because fuck, I'm nearly 50, and isn't it amazing? For most of human history, intelligence was something uniquely human. If you wanted ideas, insight, or advice, you asked a person. A teacher, a colleague, a mentor. But suddenly we're living in a world where intelligence is available on demand. You can open your laptop and collaborate with a machine that can help you write, design, analyze, brainstorm, and learn. And what's fascinating is how quickly people are adapting. For some people, AI still feels like a novelty. Definitely not me. For others, it's already becoming part of daily life. A research assistant, a creative partner, a thinking tool, which raises some fascinating questions. If we suddenly have access to intelligence on demand, what does that do to the way we think? How do we learn? How do we work? And what does it mean to be human in a world where intelligence is no longer scarce? Today's guest spends his life helping organizations navigate exactly these questions. David Nord is the founder of Pathfinder and one of Australia's leading voices in helping companies understand how to work with artificial intelligence in thoughtful and practical ways.

AI As Fun And Empowering

Dawid Naude

Like because a lot of the use of AI generally by most of the population, it's not, it is helpful, but it's not as if their whole world is completely changed because of AI. A lot of the daily use of most of the population is somewhat, I don't know, it's not that deliberate. It's fun, sure, definitely. It's a lot of fun. But I think the probably it would be mostly annoying if they didn't have if they weren't using AI and they had been using it. It's not as if all of a sudden their life collapses because of it and they can't do what they what they couldn't that they're not able to really function. So, but there's a big shift that's happening right now where AI is much more than simply kind of an advisor. Actually, it can control the computer for you now, it can control the mouse, it can take action, it can be scheduled, it can monitor. And so you think of people who are doing their tax returns at the moment who actually know how to use AI, not just like the surface level things, they're they're probably gonna get a bigger tax return than those who don't. And next year they'd probably be kind of clueless without AI if they're if they're if they had to do it again.

Dom Hind

What happens if you lost AI? How would you feel in your day-to-day?

Dawid Naude

Well, given my whole employment and income comes from A, I'd probably be broke. But um So I I firstly, I it is fun. Like it is fundamentally fun. Now, that fun is not yes, there's the actual fun, fun part with like kids and family in that where let's say it's a daughter's birthday party and you get it to create a song which has for Pass the Possible and it has each of the attendees' names as part of the song. Like you know, that's kind of cool and fun. But I think part of the most fun part of it is how you can do all these things that um you couldn't do before. Not just do it faster, but like you and I were talking about vibe coding before. Yeah. And just how just how powerful that is, um, and how we always had to compromise with software. Uh using these subscriptions that do things kind of how we want it, but not entirely. And you know, paying like 40, 50 bucks a month for software that does one thing, like a Kanban board or something like that, in kind of an average way. But now you can get it to do it your way, exactly how you want. And but just the whole, yes, it's useful, but the act of creating it is so empowering and so much fun.

Dom Hind

Yeah, it and I I absolutely agree with that. Having managed teams and teams of developers, um, trying to get a developer to do exactly what you want takes time. Whereas using AI, you can customize it and you can control it and you can actually see what that output is. And it's it is really empowering.

Dawid Naude

And and with the developer, I mean, the developers were as frustrated with us as we were with them because we couldn't really articulate exactly what we wanted. So it'll be like, I want you to do this, I wanted the software to behave this way, but it was mostly I'll know it when I see it. Like, and when they completed some work and shipped it back to you, you'd go you then start using it. Then you go, oh no, I also need these other three things. And so that whole loop took forever.

Dom Hind

Yes.

Dawid Naude

Um, and let's say you still did have a developer that actually built the thing for you. You could you could do all the prototyping, design, testing, everything like that before you hand it to them. Um, I want it, I want something that looks exactly like this, behaves like this. So there's lots of different parts of the life cycle that I can help.

Dom Hind

Yeah, I I agree. And I think the cutting down the time frame, that's a massive thing as well.

Dawid Naude

Yeah, just that whole I like that whole idea or problem to idea to concept, like that, that going from um weeks or months to an hour or two because you're just sitting in front of it and you're iterating. And these days what I'm doing is um uh like we're busy doing a new strategy at work and I was trying to find a way to visualize it to show the rest of the team. And um I spent a long time, um, this was with Chat GPD chatting with it, but then I asked it, can you generate five different images that each represent um the new strategy? It has like six, six dimensions um as like a different way of visualizing it. But that was just so and I said, can you make it look a bit hand-drawn so that it shows it's like a work in progress? Yeah, but like seeing five different concepts, going, Oh, I love how that one looks there. Yeah. Or maybe I like most of this one, but I really like the way it showed the icons of the fourth one, and then you kind of blend them together. Something like that is is hugely powerful.

Why AI Feels Suddenly Everywhere

Dom Hind

Yeah, it's it is really powerful. Um, AI has technically existed for decades for decades, but suddenly it feels like it is everywhere. Why does it feel like it's here right now?

Dawid Naude

Yeah, so AI has, I mean, firstly, it depends on the definition. Um so you could borderline argue that spell check is AI, right? Um yeah, or grammar or yeah, but there's there's so many things, but um AI, the way we use AI today, that is actually very new. So um that's all from a technology called a large language model, which was theory in 2017. It was a white paper that was published called Attention Is All You Need by a bunch of researchers, primarily from Google's research lab. Um the technology behind the large language model that has been around for a long for a long time, neural networks and deep learning. But um it's hard, it's actually, I'd say the way AI kind of actually showed up in most of our lives before large language models was like Google Maps. Yeah. You know, it is it but you couldn't get Google Maps to, you know, critique a strategy paper for you. It could only do one very narrow thing very, very specifically and very well. And that was always the indicator, well, AI will be something that is not just specific to one task, it can do lots of things very, very well. Um, or even okay, it doesn't even need to do it very well. And that's where large language models um just kind of arrived. And so you had um you had this theory of the large language model, um, of the specifically the transformer in it that made it happen in 2017. And then 2020 onwards, you had um a lot of researchers, but particularly OpenAI, um, with their first GPT model, second GPT model. But then we had ChatGPT be released, which was simply meant to be a demo, just a demonstration for um their GPT platform that software engineers would use. But people didn't know it existed. And they said, well, when people log into um our OpenAI platform and play with our API, there was a little chat feature there where a developer could just put something in and they could see what the response is, and they could see that this was really, really well used. And so they thought, well, why don't we make this publicly available so that people can play with um the API chat with GPT, chat GPT, to sell the API. So to advertise it, but then it became the product. Like that's what happens. And um, I was really fortunate actually to be in San Francisco at OpenAI with Sam Altman about a month ago, and I asked him a question around um what's the long-term game here? What should we all be doing to kind of win in three years' time? And he paused for a very long time, and that was the example that he gave around uh actually, he thinks that tactics become strategy. It's more the small things that you just stumble upon as you're pursuing some bigger strategy that usually ends up becoming the strategy. And that was the example he used of ChatGPT.

Dom Hind

But it it is because it when you are like when you're vibe coding, when you are using it to try and do deep thinking, yeah, it does spit out new things that you don't normally think of. And those little things can then become the seed to something bigger.

Dawid Naude

Yeah, definitely. And you go go down tangents and all of that and explore wide, and then it's just crazy how how many hours disappear as well. Like I feel like I'm definitely, I think most people who use AI a lot, they're working more than they've ever worked before.

Dom Hind

I couldn't agree more.

Dawid Naude

They're they're just they're doing a lot more stuff. Sometimes they're they're not completing a lot of stuff. I mean, I'm definitely guilty of that, and it's probably a stage, it's just a stage thing where we're at right now. It's we're getting so excited about building a website, but then we're not actually publishing that website. You gotta ship and so um, and then anybody who has actually shipped like some product that they've built or website, you know that the last the last um like 90% of of the work that you do on that is actually removing things and just sharpening and polishing all the things that you actually want out there. Um yeah.

Dom Hind

Yeah, okay. Yeah, I'm yeah, I'm definitely guilty of that. Because you just your brain goes, oh my god, what about this? What about this? But you don't ever publish it.

Dawid Naude

Yeah.

Dom Hind

Well, I have published a few things, but that's okay. Um for most of history, intelligence was scarce. You had to find experts, study, read books, and now suddenly we have intelligence on demand. Do you think we've fully grasped how profound this shift is?

From Advisor To Computer Operator

Dawid Naude

I don't think we have. Um, and I think also just how different it is today to um a month ago before the release of GPT 5.6 and ChatGPD work and like uh Fable. It's just it just feels again we've just shifted again. I think um one of the big shifts that's happened in the last month is just how powerful it is at doing the execution for you.

Dom Hind

So that that has been game changer.

Dawid Naude

Absolutely. So in the example of the website, right? So let's say you're somebody who's never published a website before, and then you sit and you um use clawed code or or codecs from OpenAI or just even a chat GPD work, and you build a whole website. There's a lot of websites that exist there, but they've never been published because it's just too hard and people aren't sure, okay. Well, how do I get a domain? How do I get a web host? Yeah, how do I do DNS registration and all of that? But because these platforms can now control your computer, control the mouse, control the browser, just saying to it, okay, I've built this amazing thing, but I don't know, I actually want to host this now and I have a website. What do I do next? And it going, well, first let's let's get a domain for you. I'll go to GoDaddy and I'll search. And then and then it'll go, okay, well, let me now go and um get a host uh for the web space, and and then it'll say, Oh, I'm on this web page now. Can you just um create a password and then let me know when you've done that and I'll take over again. For somebody who's not technical, um, which is most of the world, yeah, like that last mile is terrifying. Yeah. Like you're talking about DNS configurations and all this, but now AI just being able to do that for you, I think is an is an absolutely massive um shift forward. Even something as simple as, oh, here's all the add-ons that they recommend for your basket. And AI saying, no, you don't need those things. The odds of that yeah, you needing any of those things are that's not gonna not necessary.

Dom Hind

Um Yeah, it's interesting. So I use Lovable a lot. So but I use I know you're open AI, but I use Claude and Lovable a lot together. And even just the connection to the domain name, like all of that is just so easy now. Like so easy.

Dawid Naude

And all these platforms, it's not sometimes people ask, oh, do you should use Chat GPD instead of Claude or Lovable instead of um sort of other platforms? Yeah, exactly. It's it is in some some ways like uh like talking about which gym you should go to.

Dom Hind

Well, that's it. It's whatever and everyone. Just go to the gym.

Dawid Naude

Use the set of dumbbells under your table. That's that's gonna be the thing that that determines whether you're fit or not, not like the not the brand of like not if it's Lulie Lamon or like North Face shorts that you wear. Like that's actually like the act of using it is gonna be the difference between um getting success or not.

Dom Hind

Yeah, and you know what, even when you do use it, you then do understand what the differences and nuances are between them. So then you work out what your preference is as soon as you start using and playing with it. So it is, yeah. User, just try.

Dawid Naude

Pick pick a problem and just and if you don't know where to start, ask it. Like say, hey, I've been told I should try using you. Like, what do I do? What do I do?

Dom Hind

Do you know what the the best thing that I did while we're on holidays was I actually asked Claude and said, I've been using you for a long time now. Can you please tell me how I can use you better? And it was amazing. It got me to set up projects and put in all of my files into projects, make sure that I had, you know, like it actually tells you how to use it better. And it was game-changing.

Dawid Naude

Yeah, and even what you said there, that's probably like one there's a couple of like top tips like that, like using projects that make a phenomenal difference to the output. If you did something like that, um I've been using for a long time, how could I use you better? But can you also have a look at my calendar for the next few weeks and see how I should use you um in the next couple of weeks? And it'll go, well, I can see that you've got um a sales proposal call in two weeks' time. Um, I know that you use me to research and all these things. How about you use me to actually create the proposal itself? And you know, that that type of thing where it strings that context together, it's very good.

Dom Hind

I think the context, yeah, bringing it into your life rather than just using it as an external tool is a great thing to do as well.

Dawid Naude

Yeah, definitely.

Dom Hind

Particularly with what's happened, you know, over the last few months with how integrated it can be.

Dawid Naude

Yeah, and also uh just pick one tool and use it as much as possible because it does uh get to know you.

Dom Hind

Yeah.

Dawid Naude

Um, that's been one big advancement in the last year is uh how good it is at um it's getting just gotten so much better at learning about you, forming uh forming an internal memory about you, um reading through other chats that you have, and then also as it's connected now into email and calendar and things like that, um it's really good. Even now, how it will say, hey, can I um it'll propose when you open it up um suggested things like can I help you prepare for the podcast this afternoon?

Dom Hind

Yeah. Yeah, can it? Can it be me?

Jobs Change Trust Still Wins

Dom Hind

Um whenever new technology arrives, people worry about jobs disappearing. Which jobs do you think will change the most over the next decor decade and where do you think the biggest opportunities are?

Dawid Naude

So there's if okay. So jobs where there's no execution, just advice, that needs to be re-looked at what are they actually as in professional professional services.

Dom Hind

Professional services.

Dawid Naude

So but it's also looking at what is it that they were actually buying from you. So if you take like a financial advisor, AI is definitely going to, there's no question that AI can do a better job than that financial advisor at crafting a really good financial plan, battle testing and all of that. But I'd I'd question whether that was the reason why the person that engaged the financial advisor in the first place. I actually think it was like trust.

Dom Hind

Trust is 100% trust.

Dawid Naude

And and going like, I'm overwhelmed. I want a person that I can talk to about this, and I want a person to tell me I've I've spoken with a hundred clients in your situation, and I know that you've made some financial decisions that you might regret, but you're actually okay. And let's um let's first figure out where you're trying to get to. Let's have an honest assessment about where you're at right now, what you're willing to change, what you're not willing to change, um, and let's let's focus on that. And I actually I think it's the same for a lawyer. Like, ChatGPT can definitely be a fantastic lawyer.

Dom Hind

Like uh, but it's it writes amazing legal documents. Yeah, but you've been sued a lot.

Dawid Naude

No, I'm kidding. I've been suing a lot, no. But but you you want to sit down with a lawyer over a over a coffee and like and you want the conversation to be about I know that this is a tough negotiation, but let's actually talk through how we're gonna win this thing. Now, if you are a financial advisor or a lawyer, if you are arguing why you're better than AI and why AI will never come for your job, well, then every time AI improves, you become more desperate.

Dom Hind

Yeah.

Dawid Naude

But if if you just change your mindset and your conversations with your prospects and clients are we're gonna come up with a strategy, then we're going to battle test that strategy with the best AI tools that are available at the moment. That means every time AI improves, you're you improve, your whole service improves. Yeah. So you ride, you, you rise with the tide. Um and so sometimes it is just a mindset thing. Um I think execution is going to be critical. So Think of um management consultants that all that they do is produce a PowerPoint deck and then wash their hands of whether it works or not. Those those days I I think that they were gone a long time ago.

Dom Hind

Um but now they're now they're definitely just announced they're sacking a thousand people.

Dawid Naude

Yeah, and so and that's like all of the big four are are they've had all problems in the last couple of years. And you know, outside of them, all the listed ones have had um huge impact to their share price and that and I think um and that's where I think AI has also now really moved up a notch from it's gone from just being an advisor to it actually being able to do it for you. I don't think that the bell curve is ever gonna change. So I think you're always gonna have the people that take shortcuts, cheat, or lazy. Yeah, you're always gonna have that small group. They're not going away. You're always gonna have the group in the middle that um kind of do their job, um live for the weekend, all of that. And then you're gonna have the the top end of the bell curve where they're gonna leverage this to go to the complete next level and it's gonna energize them and excite them and all that. So I don't think that's gonna change. There is gonna be definitely a systemic shift, but we've also been dealing with that in Australia for ages. You think of all the all the bigger organizations that are trying to um offshore uh staff and all that. But I think one thing that a lot of people miss is that uh most

Small Business Upside In Australia

Dawid Naude

of Australia is employed by by small businesses. Yeah. Like it's something like 56%. I'm gonna botch the figure, but it's a huge. I think it's higher, exactly.

Dom Hind

Exactly.

Dawid Naude

There's not a single small business. There's not literally not one single small business in Australia that says the number one thing we need next year is less people.

Dom Hind

Yeah.

Dawid Naude

Like there's like there's not there's not there's literally not one.

Dom Hind

Well, there's how a trade, how is a trade can like, you know, it's booming still, even with the downturn in the economy. It's still booming for the trades. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

Dawid Naude

And um you think of how many there's probably excellent tradespeople out there that can't be found because they've got a terrible website or no website, that are paying too much tax because they don't use a good accountant, that have contracts that don't protect them or their clients appropriately, um, because they're you know they're they're one man in a van. And um that just think some of my electrician friends. But the um uh now they can. They can actually get like expert advice and all of that.

Dom Hind

Um and a presence.

Dawid Naude

Yes, yes, yes, definitely. Uh for sure. They can they can get a website up and running, they can get a um um a social media campaign, they can there's so much that they can do.

Dom Hind

Yeah. I do think even coming back just to the professional services people, because there's been a lot of talk about how there is going to be a massive change in the way that they deliver or what they're doing. But if you become a concierge where you are the interface to what the people need to do with the trust, with building that you know, that that relationship, there is still a massive role. You won't be selling time and materials anymore, but you will be selling the value and the knowledge that you have.

Dawid Naude

People want um service providers that they can just leave to get the job done and they focus on putting out a fire that that person can't get done. And I think um whilst there are a lot of people that are vibe coding and building their own software and websites and all of that, I think there's a lot of people that are happy to just get somebody else, yeah, somebody else to do it for them whilst they spend time with customers and and all that. But I also think there's there's so many there's so many businesses or software platforms even out there that don't exist today because the economics just don't stack up. Um so you think of a think of like some kind of um CRM um management platform or something for managing dry cleaning businesses.

Dom Hind

Yep.

Dawid Naude

Like there's no Silicon Valley company that would focus on doing that because there's just the market's not big enough to justify it and pay for it and all of that. Whereas now, if you did run a dry cleaning service, you could actually vibe code, literally, you could do this, create your own platform that helps you manage that. Now you can sell that platform to all the other dry cleaners that will be happy to pay for that platform because it does exactly what they needed to do in your language. Um like it's it's perfect. So I think all of the new software and new businesses and entrepreneurship and all of that, that's what I that's what I get really excited about.

Dom Hind

It's interesting. So I redid that for our agency, and my husband's like, you need to go and market this, and I'm like, nah, I just can't be bothered. Like I just did it because it was something I was interested in. I don't want to be selling software, but it is, it gives you that flexibility to be able to do whatever you need, customize it specifically for you.

Dawid Naude

Yeah, and also you think of all the invisible work for you think of um think of teachers, you think of um tennis coaches, you think of they're on the tennis court all day and then they finish work, um, and now they've got to go do all their invoicing, respond to all the queries, do all the planning for the next week and until 11 p.m. and then get up the next day and do it all again. So I just think those people that I just think there's enormous opportunity for people to get get a lot of time back to focus on the things that matter.

Dom Hind

Enormous opportunity for humans.

Dawid Naude

Yeah. Yeah, literally.

Dom Hind

Literally for everyone. Yeah. Um one thing that you talk about a lot is the importance of tinkering with AI tools. Do you think the people who thrive in this next era won't necessarily be the smartest, but will be the ones who have actually dipped their toe in the mark in the water?

Dawid Naude

Yeah, definitely. I think in some ways the the core rules of innovation aren't gonna be different. It's gonna be around um those who actually get their hands dirty, um, who are optimists. So they go they'll go, let's actually think there's something here, let's try this. Um not all of it's gonna work, but let's try this, let's build something. But the only this is the reason why this is more important than ever is um it's a very strange technology, it's very weird. Like we've never had a technology like this before that um can kind of do everything, and but it's just a simple prompt input. Um and so to actually know how it works properly, go to that next level of depth, you know, 90 99% of people are never gonna go past like a millimeter deep with AI. Like they're not gonna even go to projects in Claude, as you mentioned, there, which makes a huge difference. They're not gonna know exactly which models to use which task and all of that. It's not hard to do those things, but most won't. Um, anybody who tinkers figures that stuff out, they're gonna be miles ahead of the rest. But it's still gonna require the guts, particularly in entrepreneurship, to do something, take a risk, market it, get it out there, uh, convince a customer to pay for it and put their trust in you. So those those fundamentals are still gonna be the same. I just think the opportunity is gonna be so much bigger because a lot of those hurdles are gonna be removed for many um entrepreneurs that wouldn't have been able to do it otherwise because they don't have access to good legal or marketing or something like that.

AI As Universal Tutor

Dom Hind

Yeah, I I agree with that. Um idea I heard you talk about was AI being a universal tutor. Um, do you think this technology could fundamentally change how people learn throughout their lives?

Dawid Naude

Absolutely. I think that's probably number one reason why I'm such an AI optimist, possibly naively. Naively. I'll be the first to admit that. Um but I mean there's been studies before saying that optimists are luckier than um than people who are cynics just because they try more things and it's just uh uh but I I think the education side is so the so I think of um I wasn't a very good student. Um I really struggled with attention back then, they just call you lazy these days. It's like ADHD, but they just call you lazy back then.

Dom Hind

Or distracted.

Dawid Naude

Yeah, exactly. It's uh every every single report card I ever had was the same. It's like David's really smart, he just needs to learn how to pay attention. I was like, I wish that more for me than you do. Um I just couldn't. And so I had a I had a fantastic maths tutor that I used to meet for an hour each week. Um, she was amazing. But um not many people can afford that privilege. Yeah, yeah. And that's one hour a week for one subject. AI is so powerful as a as an academic um tutor, but also this is this is this is a little bit tougher and there's more nuance, but definitely kind of as a mentor just to like vent to and and things like that. But let's just let's just box in the teaching and academics first. You could go to it, um, I've got an 11-year-old, and he could say to it, teach me quantum physics in the style, like in the style of Mario Kart.

Dom Hind

Yeah.

Dawid Naude

And it will make it relatable for an 11-year-old. It will use Mario Kart as examples of explaining it so it becomes very relatable. Um, and he'll be able to say, uh, okay, so does it work like this? And it'll come back and say, look, you're you're 80% of the way there. These concepts you explained were right. This 20% is not quite right. Think of it more like that way. Doesn't need to give you the answer, it can help you. Yeah, it is mind-blowing. And now also with um uh with the newer visualization features. Oh, yeah. Like if you're let's say you're wanting to understand how tides work. First AI was great at that on text, and then it was great at it at voice, so now I could just talk to it. But now what it does really well is well, yes, it could create um the visualizations and diagrams using image generator, it could do that very well. But now it's really good at creating little tools that would be like an animation with little dials that you could move up and down and show you how like the move the moon moves and the waves are drawn to it, and that's completely engaging. I mean, that's the whole concept of flow. Um, that flow state is where your the challenge and your ability to meet the challenge kind of intersect at this perfect point. If it's too challenging, then it's anxiety, if it's not challenging enough, it's boredom. Um but AI will always be able to match where you're at. For us, it's actually made in something, in some ways, worse. So, like Liam, my son, he's very bored at school in maths and science. Those are the things that he thrives. So, what we've done at home is we've um gotten him to use some AI tools as a bit of a teacher-tutor and extend him on those things, but it's now put him even further ahead at school with those things and made him more bored. Yeah, probably. Um but I think one of the big misconceptions of school is that it is um primarily education. Like it's not true. Education is part of it, it's also part socialization. Absolutely. It's daycare.

Dom Hind

Yeah, yeah.

Dawid Naude

So the parents can go to school, can go to work.

Dom Hind

Yep.

Dawid Naude

Um, and so I think that schools need to be completely redesigned. There should be a couple of hours where it is just them and their AI um teacher. It takes the load off the teacher as well, like needing to know everything about chemistry.

Dom Hind

Every child is different. Absolutely different. Every child is different, and everyone has different learning styles and different ways of staying engaged. So even like over the holidays, I got my kids' report cards, and I took the report cards from the last three times that they had, uploaded them, and then created a tutor for them based on where they were actually needing the help. But if that's what it needs, it needs to be that customized learning for them so that they can actually be getting ahead.

Dawid Naude

Definitely. And you just think, I mean, all of us can think to a teacher that really had an impact with us at school. It was never really because they were so intelligent. It was actually it was something around their warmth.

Dom Hind

Um also the connection, the inspiration, the connection.

Dawid Naude

So let's let's make teachers do that, like uh where it's more around uh mentoring and inspiration and guidance and not trying to force somebody who's not that good with like economics, be an inspiring economics teacher for year 12s, right? Like I I think now some of this could be way off because I'm not a teacher, but like I'm just I just know how powerful this stuff is at being a teacher for any

AI As Coach For Resilience

Dawid Naude

age.

Dom Hind

Yeah, like yeah, and even coming back to your the view on being a mentor, whether it's business or whatever, the great thing about AI now is you can actually get it to think as if you are, you know, whoever you want it to be. I know you love Richard Branson, so you know it could be think about that you are Richard Branson, give me the advice or give me something. This is a situation, how could I handle it? Like it is such a great way of framing it.

Dawid Naude

It is. Um, I I think that's one of the best ways anybody can use it is as a bit of a coach. Let's say it's not even a coach, just even a sounding board, a reflection tool. Um this is where the more you use it, uh, the better it will be because it'll start picking up patterns in your in your thinking um of how you deal with it. It did this for me actually very recently, just a few days ago. So I have um I have a project on my Chat GPT um called, it's just called resilience. And so it's um any content that I find is really good around mental and physical resilience. Of there's a couple of um articles that I have grounded in there, but it's where I sometimes do a very long conversation with it to um if I'm feeling particularly burnt out or something like that. But it's also where I do daily chats and reflections with it. And it did this observation with me a few days ago where it said, from our chats over the past few weeks, I noticed that when you're chatting to me about building, then you're incredibly energized. And when you're chatting to me about these things, this is when you usually seem to be in a straight of anxiety, a state of anxiety or a bit more of a distress state. And so it was crazy how it just kind of offered that up. Um and if you do have um inspirational people that um resonate with you, it makes AI's job a lot easier because you can you can say, can you now reframe this? Um, you know, what would they do if it was Richard Branson or if there's a negotiator called Chris Voss, um he's awesome. You could say um uh it could be sales or even like a difficult conversation. He talks a lot about that. Um let's say you had to break some really bad news about to a client.

Dom Hind

Yeah.

Dawid Naude

Um and you could say, okay, can you help me through this as if Chris Voss was giving me advice? Um and yeah, that's very, very powerful.

Dom Hind

So even for me, like I've got my board of directors in my head of when I need some advice, I go to, or you know, think about it and try and frame it from what they would try and give me that advice. And having those board of directors in AI, it actually helps when you do need that advice.

Dawid Naude

It's um I I I c I couldn't agree more. It's amazing. Um, the one of the one powerful way I used it recently was um if you say have um let's say there's some behavior from somebody um that you're working with either in your team or a client or friend, family, whatever it is. Um like my my style has always been like quite um maybe quite impatient. So just like going as indirect, yeah. Just direct and also like unrealistic with expectations. Expectations that they're here and they're just gonna move to here like almost instantly.

Dom Hind

And you think that they're like you.

Dawid Naude

Yeah, yeah, which which is horrible. But the um but there was one once recently over the last couple of weeks where it was like, well, no, uh somebody, in order for somebody to be fully engaged, um, they need to have these types of needs addressed. And it was like they need a sense of agency, they need a sense of um community of people that they're interacting with, and also they need um to have a sense of mastery, like they're getting and went into the research and science behind that, and they said, Look, the the way to kind of build that up in somebody is they need to go through these steps, and so for the next um for the next uh couple of weeks, just give them this task um that that'll allow them the the ability to to flex agency and mastery um and be able to share it with these people and that'll address those things. But it actually it actually started working, and so but I had to I had to actually have patience and it's and it this is where it said like over the next four weeks, this is how you should how you should how you should how you should do that. But that was um I definitely wouldn't have before that. I think I just would have been the approach just get on with it. Come on. Yeah, just do it, just do it.

Dom Hind

What are you doing? I can't understand why why you haven't done it.

Dawid Naude

Yeah.

Not Too Late To Start

Dom Hind

Um, this podcast is really about the moments of approaching 50 where many of us start reflecting on what comes next. Some people might feel technology is leaving them behind. What would you say to someone in their 40s or 50s who feels overwhelmed by how fast things are changing? And is it too late? And what should they do right now?

Dawid Naude

That's a that's an excellent question. Okay, so if you think of um let's say somebody's 18, yeah, they've just finished school, they've been using tech for a long time, um, been addicted to it, all of that. Uh the that's like it's very easy to learn what they know. Like it's very neat, it's very easy. It's very easy to learn how to use AI if you're in your 40s. It's very easy. You know what's really hard is to accumulate like 20 years worth of um interpersonal relationships, nuance, um just all the gut feel type of um reading the room and interactions, but also structuring prompts as well.

Dom Hind

Like, I mean, because we English was drilled in of sort certain form factors, ways that you're supposed to do it.

Dawid Naude

Even problem solving, like even that process. So I think um I think one of the biggest things that AI offers to somebody who's later in their career is unfortunately at the moment, you're probably spending like 70, 80% of your day doing things that you were already quite good at very early in your career.

Dom Hind

Yeah.

Dawid Naude

Whereas now the the idea is that hopefully a lot of that stuff can be removed and you can actually spend most of your time doing the things that you're really, really excellent at that um has taken that long to accumulate. And I think mostly that will be um relationships, it will be teamwork, it'll be creating new things, it'll be uh experimentation, it'll be uh building fantastic uh client uh uh relationships. And so I think and spending a lot more time with your clients. Like you think of you think of somebody who's let's say like in sales or some something in their 40s, like they their customers don't want them to be cheaper and ultra super duper efficient. It's actually their customers probably just want them to spend more time with them and they want to spend more time with their customers as well, but they're just filled with all this garbage every day. Um and so I think there's there's enormous opportunity. It's just just have an open mind and start start tinkering, start playing. Go watch all the free resources you can find online. Like uh Claude is a fantastic academy, OpenAI is a fantastic academy, it is completely free. 99% of people have never even watched the 101 video, let alone the 102, let alone the one on sales and marketing and HR and all of that. There's they're they're they're remarkable. There's so much, so much.

Dom Hind

I think it even when I first first started using this like a long time ago, I think I even said, Can you give me a two-week plan? Yeah. Of I've got 15 minutes a day. Give me stuff that I should be looking at, whether it's videos or an article to read.

Dawid Naude

And that's um so a couple years ago, that was um that was a brilliant way to get started. Now these days, what you can say is go through my calendar and give me a two-week plan, and it'll be able to give you some ideas of how to apply AI to the work that's already in your calendar. And that's that's really good.

Dom Hind

Yeah. Yes, I I think so too. Um if someone wants to become really fluent with AI over the next two years, how much of an of an advantage do you think that will be?

Dawid Naude

If they become really fluent. Yeah. They're playing a different game to everybody else. Like this is not um so this is the the if you are using AI better than others, you're playing a different game now. Like this is and it's not it's not a little bit better. It's not as if oh you you're it's not like your car gets like you know a hundred kilometers per liter and mine gets like 70 kilometers per liter. Like it's not gonna be like that at all. It's gonna be you are doing 10 times as much as the other person. It's not even about volume, it's just you're doing it so much better. You might um you might be somebody in, let's just use a sales example. You might still only be meeting five prospects a week. Two people, they're both meeting five prospects a week, but you're closing every single one of those deals, and the other person is closing some. Um because those five deals, for every single one, you turn up and you've you've got a brilliant briefing where it's researched everything about them, the problems in the industry, all of that. But you've taken the time to read it, to build empathy, to understand it, to think how you're gonna have this conversation so you're completely present. Whereas the other person who's using AI but not that well, um, or just even not that good an operator, they're using it to rewrite the email that they send afterwards. And so AI doesn't tell replace good leadership and like being a good operator either.

Dom Hind

Like it's or a good person. Yeah, absolutely. Even in the um the day-to-day, like I hate cooking. I hate it. It's the like vein of my existence. So now I will just take a photo of what is in my fridge, what is in my pantry, and say, Can you give me a meal plan for the next week so that I don't have to buy anything and I can use everything that's there? And even that is taking the mental load off something I hate to do something I actually enjoy doing.

Dawid Naude

Yeah, couldn't agree more. Like there's uh there's a lot of things like that where, you know, the conversation might be um, oh, but AI, you know, like you can't use your brain or your own.

Dom Hind

Exactly. It's like I don't care. I don't want to do that thing.

Dawid Naude

It's like it's uh, you know, like fast food didn't kill home cooking.

Dom Hind

Like it's like But it's even with cooking when when you know the stress of when you've got people over, I will now say, This is what I'm cooking. Yeah, we are eating it this time. Can you tell me minute by minute or you know, 15-minute increments, what I need to do when, so that I'm not stressed?

Dawid Naude

The crazy thing is, is that now with these newer features where it can control the browser so well is it being able to actually go and do the online shop for you? Like that's that's wild as well, just going that next mile. I I completely agree.

Dom Hind

There's so many things you think of just the boring stuff that you want to just get it out of your mental load, if it can take that off so that you're doing something interesting.

Dawid Naude

Yeah, like tax time as well. Like that, like I don't get it. I don't get you know, like I'm I'm not losing any sleep over the fact that I'm using AI, like I should be using my brain to manually go through and find invoices in my email and all of that to claim deductions. Like I'm not I'm not losing sleep over that. Like I'm very happy to get that time back to have a more compliant and accurate and successful tax return. Yeah.

Dom Hind

I'm even using it for looking at the bank statements, going, what are my active subscriptions?

Dawid Naude

Yes.

Dom Hind

So that I can then go, well, I'm not actually using these five, I will get rid of them.

Dawid Naude

That it's it's wildly powerful for that. If you if you do that, put like the last um this is where you need something like clawed clawed co-work or chat GPD work. Um but if you download the statements and transactions of say the last year across your your bank accounts and your credit card, and then put it on a high level of thinking and tell it to actually do like a full financial analysis and all of that. Maybe you don't want to see the results. No, I know that's it.

Dom Hind

It's like uh when do we go travel like that?

Dawid Naude

Yes, exactly.

Dom Hind

Maybe I'll do that and I won't show anyone else.

Dawid Naude

No.

Dom Hind

But it is, it's taking away all the boring stuff so you can actually enjoy it.

Dawid Naude

And I wouldn't have done that anyways. Like it's been on something, it's been something that's been on the list for a brazilian years. Some people are are budgeters and they've got a pretty little spreadsheet at home that they put every single transaction in and all of that. I've tried that a couple of times, you know, some some some some New Year's resolutions that like, hey, I'm gonna have a budget this year and then that lasts for like all of a day. Um but now AI can actually like help with that because it's hard, it's just hard for me. I don't like doing that. And um AI, it's your choice. Like if you um if you don't have to like you decide the role it plays in your life. And um, you know, we still go to the we still go to the cinema to go watch movies, even though you can watch it at home. Like there's experiential things, like it's never it's never just about efficiency. Like you you decide how much you want to immerse yourself in in things. But I find I'm using my brain way more because of AI.

Dom Hind

I agree. I'm using my brain better for more innovation and more how can I simplify and solve this rather than in the admin crap. And I don't want to be doing admin crap. I want to be thinking.

Dawid Naude

Yep, I can completely agree. And it offers so much potential there.

Dom Hind

Yeah, I absolutely agree.

Degrees Attitude And Work Readiness

Dom Hind

Do you think things like degrees and traditional intelligence, even what we think of as being smart, still matter in an AI world?

Dawid Naude

So if if I if I take like uh my my uni degree, there were a lot of kind of commerce and management subjects, and then there were and then there were the technical subjects like computer science and things like that. The you know those those commerce type management subjects, I really don't know if they did anything for me at all. Um computer science was challenging and rewarding and all of that.

Dom Hind

But see, I think because I did an IT, but computer science was great because it taught you structure. Like it talked taught you if then else. You know, like it actually taught you that. But we were learning Pascal, like you know, like which was from the 70s in the 90s, and you just go, it's not relevant.

Dawid Naude

But the structure was good and the thinking patterns, and also you were you were creating, you know, like something, you were building something, you could see if it works or it or it didn't. Whereas these type of vague management subjects, I don't know how much value that had. But university, like the probably for me, university number one thing for me was the friends that I made, the college pub, all of that type of stuff. And so it's not just all about kind of education, but that is one thing that um or it's not about academics.

Dom Hind

I think that is it. Like I think we put so much pressure on kids today to get the best mark when in reality you can get into a degree after a year of doing arts or something else. Like it's not we just put so much stress.

Dawid Naude

I think um like when you're when you finish school, 17, 18, that's so young. You do wonder like if you're not sure what you want to do, and it'd be surprising if you did know exactly what you'd want to do at that age. Um, even if you did think you knew, you probably don't. Um but like uni is such a great place to go and like have fun, explore, um, friends, all these different subjects, and like just great, great life experience as part of that as well. But I do think I I just I think the opportunity for entrepreneurship and projects, like ideally, you're building something, you're shipping something with with people, like you're actually you're actually running an e-comm website with a few people. Like, imagine if if uni was more around that. I look, I'm I'm not sure. It's it's hard.

Dom Hind

Yeah, but I mean this comes back to the whole thing about education. Like, I do think there needs to be a lot more practical, like when kids leave school now, they're not work ready. They've been educated, but they're not work ready. They don't know how to work. And I mean, we've I we've hired so many graduates in our time where the first three to six months is teaching them how to work, yes, 100% and how to be practical. They think that all the theory that they get at uni will be applied to work, and it's just not, it's not true.

Dawid Naude

I mean, the real world, particularly with corporates and jobs and all that, is far more dysfunctional than they're made to believe in uni. And um, so yeah, so I've got a I've actually got I think it's a little video on YouTube that I have that um is like advice for new grads, and I think that the one that I open with is like, look, you you were hired here for your your attitude, not your not your expertise. It's like just like it was the attitude that you had in the interview process that was the reason why you were hired. Like, what do you what do you know? You know theory, yeah. Like, but you like the real world is going to be very different. But um, if you're super curious, if you're super humble, if you ask for help, um, if you're the most helpful person in the room wherever you go, that is those are the people that thrive. And particularly if you do the small things really well, you'll get but you'll get permission then to do the bigger and bigger things. We've all worked with um people that have entered the workforce, and no matter what you give them, they always have the excuse it's not a good use of their skill set. It's like how could and they mess those things up. How can I trust you with um running a marketing campaign if you can't even send out the invitations for a small internal um event, you know, those types of things. But um I think I think the attitude and then resilience and um all of that is still gonna be the most important things.

Dom Hind

Yeah, we always used to say good heart, good mind. And that was the number one reason why you were hired.

Dawid Naude

That's really good.

Dom Hind

If you didn't have it.

Dawid Naude

Get out! Yeah, I like that good heart as well.

Dom Hind

Yeah, good heart, good mind. Okay, so rapid fire questions. Um AI in one word. And game changing is two, so you can't use it.

Dawid Naude

Potential.

Dom Hind

Oh, good one. Uh the biggest myth about AI.

Dawid Naude

That it trains on your data.

Dom Hind

One skill. Yeah, yeah. Go on.

Dawid Naude

Like look into it, you've got to change the setting and all that. But if you're you've got to get the right license, if it's free, you're giving something up.

Dom Hind

So if it is free, like this is where it's financially free, but yeah, it's financially free, but there's always a cost.

Dawid Naude

Exactly. It's always been in tech. Always been in tech. You trade data for value. Um so trade cash for value instead of data. Yeah.

Dom Hind

Yeah, I agree. Uh, one skill everyone should be developing right now.

Dawid Naude

I think I I wanted to say prompting, but that's a bit cliche. I'd say tinkering, just playing with AI and knowing which models to use.

Dom Hind

Yeah, I think that's a good idea. That's the number one thing.

Dawid Naude

Just the drop-down of knowing when do you use like the thinking model versus the instant, that's gonna solve 90% of your problems.

Dom Hind

And also with the prompting, you can get them to prompt. Exactly. So you just need to understand if they're gonna write the prompt, what are you gonna use to actually answer the prompt?

Dawid Naude

You can also say, ask me five questions before answering, and then it's gonna tell you what it needs to know for the prompt. Like, um, so there's lots of those things.

Dom Hind

Yeah, okay, good. Um, most exciting thing about the next decade.

Dawid Naude

All the entrepreneurial opportunities, all the businesses that will exist um because of AI. And I'm not talking people think we're talking about AI jobs. I'm talking about the the artisan um uh bangle maker who makes bangles from seashells, but there's never really been a business in that. But now they can get an e-com website up and a million other things.

Dom Hind

Everyone at the markets now. At the markets, they thought that their shopfront was just the market. Now they can easily just get something up.

Dawid Naude

Exactly. Um, you you see what like uh Uber Eats did for um places that made pizza.

Dom Hind

Yeah.

Dawid Naude

Like all of a sudden, dominoes and pizza hut and all of that. I mean, how many people cry that there aren't as many dominoes places? Like not many. Like it's uh because we go into every each reality. Like the um yeah, so I think I think that's that's what's really really inspiring. I also think the fact that top class, exceptional, best in class, best in the world education will be available universally because these things don't use much like internet or traffic data. So you could have like a weak 3G signal in the middle of regional South Africa, and that is enough to have Chat GPT to be the world's greatest teacher of any academic subject at any level, borderline in any language. How far can we go with this? We we have no idea.

Dom Hind

Well, I mean, knowledge is power, particularly in those areas.

Dawid Naude

Absolutely.

Dom Hind

Yeah. Okay, your mood in one in one word right now.

Dawid Naude

Impatient. Great.

Dom Hind

Okay. Uh what's the one truth about artificial intelligence that people need to hear?

Dawid Naude

It's for everybody.

Dom Hind

Uh yes. I think that's I think it's for everyone, and I do really like the data. Like, if you're not paying, you're giving something. Absolutely. So paying for protect yourself.

Dawid Naude

It's a tool worth paying for. Like it's just um a $200 a month um pro subscription is far uh that's well used, is far cheaper than a $20 um just plus subscription where you're just fumbling around. Like the this is the amount of value that it creates for you is not nearly proportionate to the fee that you pay for it. Like it's it's crazy. So yeah.

Dom Hind

Until your credits just keep getting out of control.

Dawid Naude

Yeah, for sure. And that's where you need to know models, right? Because you don't need to use a chainsaw to like cut through a piece of lukewarm butter. No, no, that's but see, yeah.

Dom Hind

That's where it's interesting. So for me, how I use Claude versus chat, like chat is just give me directional, quick answers. I don't know, you're probably different about, but you know, whereas for me, Claude is more that engaged in-depth co-worker rather than assistant.

Dawid Naude

Well, well, for us, um I mean we use all of them, but because OpenAI arrived in Australia before Anthropic did, and business-wise, we had a few major rollouts with them, and so we've always gotten to know that platform, but they're both fantastic tools. Claude has always had a really nice uh style to it, they've put an enormous amount of effort into the into the personality of Claude, and so Claude was uh I guess he's made a joke, you know, Claude people are typically a bit better looking, just a bit cooler. Like but and then they launched Claude Cowork, which all of a sudden is like, holy cow, this is not just a style thing, this is actually doing things that the other platforms can't.

Dom Hind

Yeah.

Dawid Naude

But now they're starting to all look and feel the same and kind of copying each other and stealing each other's talent and you know, they're all suing each other and all of that. So I think um it's still about just I'd say like pick Claude or Chat GPT. Like you then you can't go wrong. Just use either of the either of those. Yeah, they're the two frontier leaders, and just go. Like, and you know, maybe five years from now, if somebody listens to this podcast, they'll go, it's like what that Yahoo in MySpace? What are they talking about? Like Web Messenger, like MSN Messenger, what's that tool? Like, it's like um, but uh we'll see. But at the moment, just use those platforms. They're both fantastic bets and great tech.

Dom Hind

Yeah, exactly. Okay, um, two questions to go.

Simple Habits To Build Fluency

Dom Hind

Um, if someone listening wanted to start experimenting with AI right now, what's the simplest thing they could try? I think it's downloading the apps, isn't it?

Dawid Naude

Yeah, and exactly what you said, they're downloading. So um the web version of these tools, they're fantastic. But what Claude Cowork did was really spearhead if this lives on your desktop and it has access to folders and a controlly computer and all of that, now all of a sudden it goes from being an advisor to a worker. Yeah. Um and so I would do that, and I would I would I would do that and actually in some ways, it seems a bit kind of intuitive, but actually use that to build an app to help you. That will that will help demonstrate a lot of different things. That the fact that anybody can create things now that can vibe code, yeah, it's gonna be immediately useful for you. Um, something it's gonna demonstrate the breadth of the technology, something like that. Look at your calendar for next week. Yeah, like that's that's what you do.

Dom Hind

This probably uh builds into you. Look, look at your calendar. What three habits should someone start building now with AI?

Dawid Naude

Oh, great question. Okay, so um there's a couple of foundational ones that will help everybody. So um top tips in how you use AI. So get into the habit of um.

Dom Hind

Do you do you open it every morning? Like, is that your first app you open?

Dawid Naude

Uh it is one of the first ones I opened.

Dom Hind

Okay, sorry.

Dawid Naude

So the first the first one I open is um open up X, and then I just look at I have uh just literally I have I have I have a list just called AI Founders, and it just has like it has Sam Altman and all those guys. And that's how you find out and the and the leakers.

Dom Hind

And the leakers, right?

Dawid Naude

Like that uh that that are on the inside and um of what's happening. And then after that, um yeah, sometimes I'll I'll I'll do Chat GPD, particularly work with that. Um but then okay, so top tip with AI. Um first know the models and think and particularly thinking mode. That makes it's gonna solve 95% of your problems. The second is get into the habit of telling it, ask me five questions before answering. Don't worry about learning prompting at the beginning, just do that. And the third massive top tip is then push the little uh dictate microphone button. Yes. And just when you're answering those five questions, just ramble into it. More is more. Just but you're not trying to give an answer in a minute. You can spend 10 minutes, give it as much context as possible. It's borderline these are these days. AI can if you give it enough context and you give it enough reasoning, so enough thinking, it feels like it can kind of do anything. Um, and so make it easy for it to know what you're trying to do by just rambling with with voice as much into it. Also, makes it great on uh mobile as well.

Dom Hind

Yeah, I think the voice is the best thing. Like it literally like being able to talk to it, because typing it if you're impatient, it does take too long to type everything you want.

Dawid Naude

And we're used to typing needing to be like like you can't send an email with like half-baked sentences and all that. So we're used to like typing being like a final thing. Whereas this is just looking for direction. And so you can just ramble, you can contradict yourself, you can um and R a million times, you can correct yourself later going, no, I actually also do this. Oh, and also I met this person, blah, blah, blah. That that type that type of thing, it's just it's just trying to find enough of direction for you from you to to direct it, and that makes a massive difference. Yeah.

Dom Hind

Okay. Have we left anything out?

Dawid Naude

I think probably if you were to take those three tips, the first thing you should do is say, I've just got this Clawed or Chat GPD license. Um I'm trying to figure out how to use it and what I should do with it. Like, and then use those things that I just suggested. That's what you should do. Yeah. And be ambitious. Be ambitious.

Dom Hind

Be curious.

Dawid Naude

Yes, definitely. Just question. Be impatient.

Dom Hind

Yeah. And the thing is, you're not like there's no right or wrong. So you can just try.

Dawid Naude

You can just try, and there's ways to manage all the risks that people talk about if they are even risks at all anymore. And the reason why I'm impatient is the technology is so powerful right now.

The Refund Story With Browser Control

Dom Hind

Yeah.

Dawid Naude

The what blew my mind, and this was two weeks ago, so ChatGPT just released ChatGPT work, their equivalent of clawed co-work.

Dom Hind

Yeah.

Dawid Naude

Download the desktop app of it, and I'd had um sold a car a year ago at an insurance company. Um, my fault, not theirs, obviously never canceled the policy, but it's just like auto-renewed. Um, and so I wanted to contact them, get a refund. I did the normal way you'd use AI typically, go through my emails, find the invoice, all that type of thing. But then I said, can you contact them on live chat, like on the web chat on their website, and can you see if you can get a refund for me? For one hour, it did the entire interaction for me.

Dom Hind

Oh my gosh.

Dawid Naude

And then I got the refund. Like uh hour of your time back. Hour of my time back. Like, and when I looked at it every few minutes, um, so if they said, Oh, okay, great, give me a few minutes, I'm just gonna go look into the system, whatever, every few minutes it would nudge them and say, Hey, just checking if you're still there. Wow, it was crazy. When I looked at how it um when I looked at the chat thread, the only thing that I didn't like was the way it opened the conversation was very adversarial. I was like, this is my mistake, not theirs. Like it was it opened it as going. It opened it as this is not a formal complaint, but if this is not resolved on this chat, I may lots of complaints. I was like, no, no, that's not somebody somebody's getting paid not that much money in a call center in another country. This is not the way that you want to start their day.

Dom Hind

Yeah, that would have been a good, a good thing for next time, make sure.

Dawid Naude

Yeah, but that the fact that um that was literally just using a consumer tool that anybody in the world has access to because it just controlled my browser and had access to my just my personal Gmail, like that was that blew me away. Um and that that's available right now for everybody. Yeah, wild.

Dom Hind

It is, it is wild. Okay,

Collaborate With AI And Share

Dom Hind

all right. Thank you very much for your time. Uh, and thank you very much for the conversation. Uh, the truth is every generation experiences moments where the world suddenly changes. The internet, smartphones, social media, and now artificial intelligence. It's easy to look at technology and feel intimidated, but maybe this moment isn't about machines replacing humans, because it's about humans learning how to collaborate with machines in ways we could never before. Because curiosity, curiosity still matters, creativity still matters, and the human ability to question, imagine, and connect will always matter. So maybe the real opportunity isn't to compete with AI, it's to collaborate with it and see what becomes possible. David, thank you very much for helping us understand the future just a little bit better. And if you want to understand more about what Pathfinder does, uh we will put all the links and everything in the show notes. And if this episode made you think differently, share it with a friend because this might be the first time in history where not learning something new actually puts you behind. So thank you, and fuck, I'm nearly 50, and isn't it amazing?