Varun talks about why Push Factors matter

Today I reflect on some key lessons learned from my initial work on this podcast. In particular, I’ve received feedback about how challenging it is to detail push factors for three reasons: 

1. They’re often emotional before we place logic to them
2. They may not be flattering to share publicly, and
3. Reframing them diplomatically feels disingenuous 

I give you my take on why the process of fleshing out your push factors help you better understand yourself and make empowered career decisions.

00:00 Introduction to the Push Pull Podcast
00:18 Reflecting on the Podcast's Thesis
01:01 Emotional vs. Logical Push Factors
02:23 Hesitation in Discussing Push Factors
03:17 Reframing Push Factors Positively
05:35 The Importance of Self-Empowerment
08:12 Conclusion

Transcript

Varun Rajan 0:06

Welcome again to the Push Pull podcast. I'm Varun Rajan, and we interview professionals about their career transitions and specifically the push and pull factors that inform those transitions. Well, at least that's what we typically do. I'm gonna be traveling for a little while, so while I have some amazing guests coming up in forthcoming episodes, I wanted to take a moment to reflect on everything I've learned so far from the first few conversations I've had here. fundamentally, the thesis of the show is that being. Explicit about the push and pull factors that inform our career transitions, help us make better career transitions. today I wanna talk a little bit about. How that thesis is holding up. After having done this for a few episodes, there is a lot that I'm learning from my first time doing this that complicates that picture a little bit and complicates that thesis. And I really wanna share my thoughts with you as my perspective evolves. First of all, push pull factors and in particular, push factors are often. Emotional well before they end up being logical. A lot of time people feel that something's wrong before they can really explain it. Many of the conversations that I've had in the last couple of months, whether it was for. Recording the actual podcast, early calls with potential guests, networking calls, coaching calls, et cetera. In a lot of these conversations, while we are working through what those push and pull factors are, many people have expressed, yes, Varun, when you put it that way, that's an accurate way to describe my transition, but I don't know if I would've described it that way at. The time In my most recent episode with Marshall, for example, I think he said that pretty explicitly, and I left it in the podcast. and that makes perfect sense to me because we make a lot of decisions based on our gut, on the vibes, our emotions, and a lot of times it's about explaining away the things that you don't like about the job that you have or the place that you're in. I don't think that necessarily complicates the thesis that getting explicit about those factors helps you make better decisions. But I do think that when you make a specific transition and call out what those push and pull factors are. You may look back in five to 10 years and say, yeah, actually I don't think that that was my motivation at all. The second thing I've learned, which feels obvious in retrospect, is that people are often hesitant to get explicit about those push factors, especially if they feel like they might be perceived negatively. and that makes perfect sense. If your memory of leaving a job was mostly about you not getting along with your boss, or not getting along with your coworkers, or something else that doesn't feel. Like something that you would be comfortable sharing publicly or on a format like a podcast or even in a job interview. what ends up happening is that we end up leaning on the pull factors as to why we left that job or what we're looking for next, and people start really indexing on what they're looking for next because they haven't quite found an honest and diplomatic way to talk about their push factors, whether it was for a prior job or a job that they're looking to get out of now. I have a fundamental philosophy that anything in your life, any reason for any transition, you can find a truthful version of that that is positive and diplomatic and honest. I've spoken to people who have said. Actually, I just really didn't get along with my boss. There was too much bureaucracy. I didn't get along with X, Y, and Z coworkers. That's not something that I'm gonna bring up in a job interview or bring up in a podcast. So I'd rather just focus on my pull factors almost exclusively. The flip side of this is maybe for a slightly younger generation, I've been seeing a lot of this kind of corporate candor content when the person is in a rough conversation with their boss or recording themselves about to get laid off and they get a lot of different accolades. And I'm not sure I am a big fan of the format where you drag your employers, either current or former publicly. At the end of the day, I'm a little old school in that way. I feel like it's kind of poor taste. Um, not saying that you can't vent or complain, I just think that doing it in front of the world is, is probably not the best move. but. If I think about the people that say, Hey, I had good reasons for leaving my job, but I am uncomfortable sharing what those are. I think it's really important to dig in one step further. For example, when somebody tells me, and this has happened a bunch, right? Uh, when I hear that. There are personality differences and uh, differences in working styles that cause a lot of friction. I find that oftentimes those are symptoms of underlying causes, and those underlying causes might actually end up being more instructive for that positive, optimistic, and diplomatic version of. Events when it comes to the push factors. So at the end of the day, what was the operating structure of those teams? Uh, did you have expectations clearly set? Uh, why or why not? Not necessarily putting the blame at the feet of one individual, but maybe talking about what the environment was like that did not allow you to do your best work or did not put you on a path. For promotion in a way that you did not see a way through to. Right. Um, really trying to understand the objective reasons behind why you did not see a path forward to you staying at that job or company or organization. I think is super, super valuable. I do get pushback on that as well when I've spoken to people and tried to walk through those push factors and frame it more diplomatically. Some people are really excited, especially if they know that that's something that they can take into future interviews. But sometimes I do get a little bit of pushback like, Varun, this does sound fair, but at the same time, am I just trying to spin something? what people tell me is that they feel disingenuous trying to put a positive spin on something that they actually viewed very negatively at the end of the day. Framing the push-pull factors, both diplomatically and honestly is not just something that's going to help you spin something positively in an interview, but I think it's really important for you to update your understanding of yourself and your own career trajectory. In a way that builds your self-esteem and confidence in a way that gives you a sense of agency and internal sense of responsibility for moving yourself out of a situation. When you identify that it no longer aligns with your values and your goals and your motivations, and when you put it in that perspective, that builds your own confidence to say, Hey. I've identified why I no longer have a fit here and can't bend the arc of my career the way that I want to and the place that I am. And so I am effectively and proactively making the decision to move forward and do something for myself in my career. It's not just spin, it is about rewriting your story in a way that builds you up. So, um, that's what I would say. Our understanding of ourselves constantly evolves, and when we try to put the proper filters on those stories, it doesn't mean you never have to talk smack about your shitty boss ever again. It does mean. That your sense of identity and autonomy and agency will be built up by being able to say, Hey, this was the situation that I was in. I identified all of the points of friction and the causes for those, and I was able to try X, Y, and Z in order to make it work for me before realizing that this was no longer a place that I could continue to invest my time and. Is that necessarily all of the thinking that you went through while you were in that situation? It doesn't have to be in order for it to be an honest retelling of what happened, because again, when we make these decisions, a lot of the time it's emotional, it's embodied. We get that sense and it builds up, and we only put words to it later over time. If we have an explicit and proactive approach to doing that, very, very purposefully. So I hope you enjoyed this shorter monologue this week. to recap. the main things that I've learned, push and pull factors, but push factors specifically are oftentimes emotional before they are logical. And getting explicit about them oftentimes feels icky because the way that we remember those moments is oftentimes very negative. and not the way that we would want to publicly speak about our employers necessarily. Whether it's in the context of networking and interview or publicly otherwise, right. and my response to that is that you don't have to be negative about it in order to understand why a place was not a good fit for you. Getting explicit, getting positive and diplomatic about finding the right story of why you left in a way that is able to recast yourself in a role that had. Agency and autonomy to make a change for yourself, I think is super empowering. It's not just spin, it's self-empowerment. It is owning your own narrative and building yourself up. And that's why I encourage everybody to go through this process with their own career. Uh, and obviously that's the reason that I'm doing this podcast as well. I'm looking forward to continuing to have these distillation format episodes where I get to just talk at you for a little while about what I've learned and see if it resonates with you as well. It's also incredibly difficult to reflect on the conversations that I've had within the context of those episodes themselves because those are really long conversations. The actual discussions that I'm having are anywhere from an hour and a half to two hours long, and so to get it a little bit tighter, closer to one hour, I end up editing a lot of that stuff out. And even when I'm doing that, a lot of the conversations and the salient points of those discussions end up really sticking with me and causing me to reflect back a lot on my own career. Things that I've heard from others in my networking calls, or people that I've helped as a coach in their own careers. I find that I'm continually getting realizations and insights from the conversations that I've already had Weeks after I finished the original recording. So, um, hope this was helpful. I wonder if it resonates with what you've been thinking about, uh, as you've been following my podcast. or if you're new here, check out the other episodes and, and see if you find some of these through lines there. Thanks again so much for, for listening. If you like this, please g drop me a review, like my video on YouTube. If you're watching this there, please subscribe, follow, and share with anybody that you think could benefit from this. And if you have any questions or concerns or comments or want to be on the podcast or have somebody that you'd like to recommend, you can always email me at Varun. That's V-A-R-U-N, at push-pull podcast.com.