The Home Cinema Alliance - Tech Talk Podcast
A consumer-facing podcast hosted by industry veterans, Stuart Burgess from Immersive Cinema Rooms and Simon Gregory from Cinema Rooms.
Each episode, we bring you News, Reviews, and Interviews from inside the industry covering Home Cinema, Home Theatre, and all things tech.
Get involved podcast@homecinemaalliance.co.uk
The Home Cinema Alliance - Tech Talk Podcast
The Art of Cinema Design with Darren of Cinema Luxe
From stadium tours with Grammy-winning producers to crafting the perfect acoustic environments for home cinemas, Darren of Cinema Luxe shares how his unique journey through music and interior design created the foundation for a specialist business that's redefining home entertainment spaces.
At Cinema Luxe, the philosophy is refreshingly straightforward: create extraordinary environments where audio-visual technology can truly shine without competing with integrators. "We don't sell speakers, we don't sell projectors, we don't sell or install control systems," Darren explains. "All the core, which integrators are very good at, we intentionally step away from, and then we fill in the other half of the story." This complementary approach has allowed Cinema Luxe to form powerful partnerships with technology specialists, delivering seamless solutions for clients.
What makes Cinema Luxe truly unique is their comprehensive understanding of both aesthetics and acoustics. The nine-person team handles everything from initial concept designs through to fabrication and installation, ensuring exceptional quality control at every stage. Their process begins with extracting detailed briefs from clients, creating buildable 3D models (as opposed to fantasy CGIs), and coordinating with technology partners to ensure that audio-visual equipment performs perfectly within their carefully crafted environments.
The democratisation of home cinema has been remarkable in recent years. No longer limited to ultra-luxury mansions, dedicated cinema spaces now appear in homes as modest as 3,000 square feet. The pandemic accelerated this trend, with families discovering the joy of having immersive entertainment spaces within their homes. As Darren poignantly observes, these rooms have evolved from occasional-use tech showcases to essential family spaces that "bookmark the end of the day" – comparable in investment to a kitchen but delivering daily moments of joy and togetherness.
Whether you're an integrator looking to elevate your projects or a homeowner dreaming of the perfect cinema space, visit cinemalux.co.uk to discover how their specialist expertise can transform your vision into reality. After all, creating spaces that enhance both technology and lifestyle isn't just about building rooms – it's about crafting experiences that bring families together.
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Coming up on this week's episode of the HCA Tech Talk podcast.
Darren Barker:We were really fortunate with the music in terms of. We got to do some fantastic things. We did several world tours and big stadium tours, working with Grammy award winning producers and lucky to work in a lot of the best studios across the world as well. Yeah, very much so. And probably, before we get too deep into it, for those who don't know us as a company, we are a specialist design and build contractor, but we're laser focused on these very specialist rooms. We don't sell speakers, we don't sell projectors, we don't sell and install control systems. All the, the, the core, which you guys are very good at, we intentionally step away from and then we fill in the other half of the story, which is is creating the environment for that technology to shine thinking of building your dream home cinema?
Stuart Burgess:don't know where to start. Start with the hga. At the home cinema alliance. We connect homeowners with the very best in the business. Our Alliance we connect homeowners with the very best in the business. Our members are trusted designers, installers and technology experts who know how to turn any room into a breathtaking cinematic experience. Whether you're building from scratch or converting a spare room, our members are here to help you every step of the way. Visit our website to find your local member at. Visit our website to find your local member at homecinemareliancecouk.
Stuart Burgess:Hi and thank you for tuning in to the HCA Tech Talk podcast. Today we're over in Essex at Cinema Lux facility with Darren. We are going to sit down and have a conversation with Darren about Cinema Lux, a bit of its history, a bit of Darren's history, what the brand can do for the end consumer, but also what the brand could do for AV individuals or integrators. So, darren, thanks for coming on the podcast pleasure. Actually, in fairness, thanks for letting us hijack your facilities, um, because obviously before this we've done the podcast that technically probably went out a couple of weeks before this, um, but thank you for welcoming us to your stunning room and the offices next door. You're welcome, um, it's very much appreciated pleasure. Nice to have you so.
Stuart Burgess:Obviously we've known each other through the industry for a few years now. Yeah, I'd say so. I remember following you into the Cedia party last year because I had my Ray-Ban Metas on to which I think if you check out one of the social media accounts there's a little reel I shot on the Metas which has got your lovely flamboyant jacket that you were wearing at the time and your your, your shoes, um but um. But obviously another reason for coming up and seeing you guys is that I know simon, obviously the co-host of the pod, simon, gregory cinema rooms, obviously one of the pods.
Stuart Burgess:The first episode we did at artcoustics and we've shot a pod with Nick Finch up at L Acoustics in Highgate. I know you've been responsible for those places, yep, correct. So before we get on to those, let's rewind it a bit. So tell us a bit about Darren, tell us a bit about how you came into this industry, if you want to go far back as your education, and you know, not primary school, but like well, I'll keep it fairly concise for you yeah, how did you sort of like, how did you get into doing what you're doing now?
Stuart Burgess:was it educational based um?
Darren Barker:well, I've always, since I was, yay, high. I've I've always done design and music. They, they've always been my two passions, yeah, and so I've been an interior designer since school. I left school. I worked for Pog and Pole for 10 years, directly from school and did my degree whilst I was working with Pog and Pole.
Stuart Burgess:So like an apprenticeship type thing? Well, no, I suppose it was a degree, wasn't it? Yeah?
Darren Barker:so I did my degree work-based, but I've been a. I've been a designer in my own right since I was very young, actually since I was 17, since I got my driving license, and so I've done high-end interiors for a long, long time. And then, always alongside that, I had a, a passion and a desire to make a career out of music, which I was very fortunate to do for for five or six years. So I took a hiatus from so I did ten years at Poggenpol, three years at Boffy, then took a hiatus for five, six years from design and I was a professional touring musician okay, so Poggenpol, poggenpol was that it.
Stuart Burgess:So what were they interior?
Darren Barker:designers. They're a high-end German brand, predominantly known for kitchens, but also fitted interiors. And then Boffy's the same, but Italian discipline rather than German. And then, when my music took off, I was very fortunate and lucky to do that with patrick, who's my business partner here right okay, and zoe, who works for us as our business development manager. She was also part of that as well so yeah, so we've.
Darren Barker:We we've been together as a, as a gang, for many years and we were. We were really fortunate with the music in terms of we got to do some fantastic things. We did several world tours and big stadium tours, and always with Velacoustics, actually as assistants, but that kind of dovetails in later.
Stuart Burgess:After knowing our friend Nick for quite a while just recently, it's like deviated slightly. I was having a conversation with him recently and we were doing a shoot for james at home play and I said did you see the screens at coachella? I said they were amazing. And he's like, yeah, our speakers I mean I know they're your speakers, didn't need to ask if they're your speakers, uh. But I said I was really impressed with the the screens. You went, yeah, but you could see the screens. You couldn't see the speakers unless you were there where you heard them yeah, he's right, 100 right, so it's um.
Darren Barker:And then um, whilst I was doing that nature of the the beast, really I was still freelance designing around that um. And then, when that slowed down, um, I set up a another interior design practice, which was relatively successful, and then set this up in parallel in 2018 with Patrick. We'd always wanted to do a business together and this felt like it combined our knowledge and understanding of audio and acoustics, of audio and acoustics, and we had a good education with working with grammy award-winning producers and lucky to work in a lot of the best studios across the world as well. So that kind of that fed into our education. And then that, combined with patrick's experience in construction, my experience in terms of interior design and how you you also deal with that client facing, kind of created this odd mix. And then cinema lux was born from that. So we um, we started in 2018, um, and then really started in anger from about 2020.
Stuart Burgess:So I suppose. So, looking at the back, so what was patrick's background then?
Darren Barker:it was in in terms of the music was the same as mine. He's always been linked to construction and the build side of projects as well.
Stuart Burgess:Project management type thing, exactly that.
Darren Barker:And you know, a lot of people speak about us and I'll get in a bit deeper in terms of what we offer. Um, as a design company, because that's the, that's the glory side, that's the glamorous side. But I always describe us as a design and build contractor, because it's our ability to not only come up with a concept design, but make something which we can manufacture and deliver to an unsnaggable finish. Um, that's a, that's a, that's a proper construction company.
Stuart Burgess:So well, it was just, it was just like out there when we got here earlier. You know, seeing, um, seeing, like you doing one of the cadroids and I think you said the project to be moved by 30 mil um, so all the cadroids, and like you, just literally go through removing everything across one by one, by one, and then you know and experiencing the rooms that you've built in respects of acoustics and here, um and uh, and then to see that you, yeah, you can see how the very minute details you see around here all start in here but on there yeah, very much so.
Darren Barker:And probably, before we get too deep into it, for those who who don't know us as a, as a company, we are a specialist design and build contractor, but we're laser focused on on these very specialist rooms.
Darren Barker:So, um, a lot of our work is with dedicated cinema, but we do branch out into mixed use environments, immersive rooms, some domestic recording studios, but there are always rooms that require a higher level of audio and audio visual integration and it's our understanding of what's required from your perspective as a, as an integrator, as a technology integrator, and ring fencing that that design within the design from the start, so it's working in conjunction with the audio visual and not against it, as a lot of interiors are, that make us quite uniquely placed in the industry, and I like to think that integrators that do work with us as a partnership as well makes for a very compelling proposition for end-user clients, because you've got the marriage of the two disciplines, you've got the best of both worlds and right from the off, with Cinema Lux, we made the commercial decision that we were not going to be an integrator.
Darren Barker:We don't sell speakers, we don't an integrator. We don't sell speakers, we don't sell projectors, we don't sell or install control systems. All the core, which you guys are very good at, we intentionally step away from, and then we fill in the other half of the story, which is creating the environment for that technology to shine.
Stuart Burgess:So when you started the business in 2018, you said so when you started the business in 2018, so when you really put your foot on the accelerator just before covid or during covid. It was almost to the day so was that like a couple of?
Darren Barker:years of planning. Yeah, it was planning, it was finding our feet, it was sussing out how we wanted to do it, which direction you wanted to go?
Darren Barker:yep yeah, and then also the very important but dull stuff behind the scenes the prototyping of the different build systems, the developing the, the disciplines which we still use today so that it's something we can deploy predictably at a reasonable scale. And so you know, when we we first come up with the seed of an idea, we would probably be what. We didn't know what an integrator was then, because we were green to it in terms of it being within this industry. But we first started OK, we're going to deliver cinema room environments, but they're going to be more design focused, more design led, and that would dovetail then more into to my world and contacts from interiors. Why did you go down?
Stuart Burgess:cinema if you didn't have any in. I mean, obviously I can understand it from an acoustic point of view because obviously the studio environment, you in cinemas, in a way, are very similar.
Darren Barker:Yep, in respect to your treating sound, I mean, you pretty much set your stall out with cinema lux as well yeah, and and I like being, you know, very niche and very pigeonhole yeah, because people ask us quite often in terms of oh, can you also look at this room for us and that room for us? And generally the answer is is no, we're going to stay in in our lane and be very, very good at what we do? Yeah, because then we can. Then we can refine all the disciplines and the techniques involved in these rooms. But you asked why we settled on cinema, and I was already working on larger projects where I was responsible for the whole home where cinema was being contained within, and it was a room that I enjoyed working on. I liked the crossover of passions, I suppose, and also by working on those projects, they always seem to be a room of conflict.
Darren Barker:I noticed from afar in terms of you've got technology guys preaching one message, the interior design and architects team not necessarily taking that on board, and it always seemed to be at odds. And for me, from the outside looking in, there must be a better way with more joined up thinking. And that was really the. The start of it was watching it from afar, really, but also, you know, just on a level it appealed to Patrick and I in terms of what we enjoyed and we felt we could make a mark with it and a difference with it and we felt it wasn't oversaturated like general interior design and joinery. You know it's interior design and joinery companies. They're to a penny, they're everywhere. I don't mean that offensively, no, it's a, it's a bigger market and there's more people vying for a slice of that pie I think it's understanding both as well.
Stuart Burgess:I mean, um, it's that whole, I think, as an integrator myself, you know you, you sort of I know myself we've sort of gone up and up through the years of doing it where you're just adding more stuff to your repertoire. And now I'm at the stage which you know it's one of the reasons I'm here today of actually sort of trying to relinquish control of it stripping it back, making my life a bit easier, especially now doing all these podcasts, um, and the video stuff and actually promoting the industry.
Stuart Burgess:But actually, yeah, I suppose cinema rooms if you look at Simon himself, myself, friends, owen Maddox and Melanie Malcolm we all specialise in cinema or our businesses were something else that did like the smart home or connected and things like that, and then we've all ended up, you know, connected works became cinema works. You know I was just a popcorn but it was then immersive cinema rooms. You know, okay, it was just our popcorn but it was then immersive cinema rooms. You know, simon's, obviously, cinema rooms, mel's, I think it's bespoke networking, but it was the company.
Stuart Burgess:It's now bespoke home cinema, it's more laser focused on that element and they are great rooms. And I think you know, from my point of view, the feedback you get from clients when you give them a space like this is that wow, it's that enjoyment room. So it's a great industry to work in because unless you do a really bad job which thankfully I think either of us ever done touch wood, um, the clients love it and they continue to tell you they love it yeah, absolutely, and there's, you know, again, on a simplistic level, they're rooms that we're really passionate about and we enjoy delivering.
Darren Barker:We enjoy delivering them to a very high standard and they're just a bit more fun, in my opinion, than a lot of other rooms.
Stuart Burgess:So when you started, how did you get in into the industry? It makes it sound like a big wall-gated industry.
Darren Barker:No, it's a very, very good question. I mean, in a way I was in terms of the industry which we find ourselves in now.
Stuart Burgess:Because we're great at talking to ourselves about ourselves.
Darren Barker:That's the conversation we had earlier.
Stuart Burgess:Yeah, it's just what the whole point of the HCA is is about trying to tell people about this fantastic industry.
Darren Barker:It helped that I had a parallel business okay, already working on good quality projects which cinema was a component of.
Darren Barker:Okay, you know so that that bought our early projects through that and you had a few contacts because of that absolutely, and and then you, you start to hopefully gain recognition for putting out good quality work and um and I just made a point of spending introducing myself to people, spending time with people wanting to learn from other people, really, because it is a was a new industry to us um, and there were certain people that I think really got that we were trying to do quite early and they've been important to us and continue to be quite important to us.
Darren Barker:Paul Cumming at Artcoustic he saw the potential in what we were doing early and even though it was of no direct benefit to his business he's a passionate dude, you know he he lives in breeze audio and especially cinema so he saw it as okay we can raise the bar of of not only the projects that we're both working on but the industry as a whole and and he's always been a great champion of us, you know- and finally, for that reason, and finally, now he's in the show room now he's got a really smart location that you're proud to take people to.
Stuart Burgess:That is not next to a karate or judo place. It's a good location and it's it's.
Darren Barker:It's a really sharp showroom that we, that we did for for our acoustic there, and I was really proud of it because it we were speaking about it earlier it it feels like you're in our acoustic showroom. I think we really hit the brief in terms of look and feel and it being part of that brand and um. But there's just that's one example of um an early believer, I suppose um, and that always counts for a lot. You don't forget so. And then really, we started branching out from there by doing good quality work but also adding value to integrators offerings, because, as a service that we offer, I always describe us as very front to back. You know, we're very happy and encourage integrators to use us early in the process in terms of being client facing and in terms of developing the design and the concept, be that as a, as a standalone designer or in conjunction with their clients overarching interior design team, because that's that's nuance that takes navigation, um, and we've seen integrators then benefit from a elevated sale.
Darren Barker:Um, and then we've kind of got the back end of what we do, which is a high quality, slick delivery and deployment of the actual room and installation. Um, but the bit that people don't see is what sits in the middle of that, yeah, and we call it um sort of owning the room, bringing all the moving parts into that room. So we'd bring in the, the audio and the technical design. We bring in, obviously, our construction details which then inform our manufacturer, but we'll bring in electrical information, hvac information, any key component of that room we bring into to one set of drawings. Component of that room we bring into to one set of drawings so we can manage out any problems, design out any issues long before we get to site and and that process which then means that we can have a really tight manufacturing process in terms of build quality and build tolerances. And quality means that that whole bit in the middle middle that people don't see is almost the most critical part of what we do.
Stuart Burgess:Well, I suppose also because if you look at my history or look at my business, there are certain times where I'm doing a project at the moment where there is an interior design, there's a project manager involved. So we're having a conversation at the moment about a coffered ceiling and we're using a coffered ceiling by a friend, roddy, at cinema build systems. You know. They said they said you know, could you send us the the drawings of it? If you've got it on cad, even better. Um, but because I've never really needed to use cad and like sketch up or things like that, I've been fine for what I've done to give a visual representation, it's. Then you sometimes get situations where it's like oh, I don't use CAD, send it to me as a PDF. So I suppose, from my point of view, a benefit about being involved with you guys is that because you are doing the fit out of the room, you are doing the CAD drawings, you use CAD for your stuff. It's ownership.
Darren Barker:Yeah, you are doing the CAD drawings. You use CAD for your stuff. It's ownership of it and that's a really important thing in terms of we take responsibility and ownership for that part of the project and the coordination of the project, which makes it a more predictable and hands-off delivery for integrators to focus on what they do best whilst we still can be a good, profitable proposition for them. So it's, um, that's kind of how the the business has developed and you know we started with patrick and myself as a seed of idea. We're now a team of nine. Um, and you said you have like five people in your the. The whole company seems to be in Greece at the moment.
Stuart Burgess:I wish I was in Greece, to be honest. Thanks for stacking around.
Darren Barker:But it's holiday time. But yeah, in terms of our team, we're a small but growing team and it's myself and I handle, I oversee the design and looking after key accounts and that front end side of the business. Patrick runs all of the sites. He does a very, very good job at that and our teams to deliver those. Zoe, who I mentioned, she's our business development manager. She supports us. It's probably the best way to she's.
Stuart Burgess:I mean, obviously I speak to you, but she's been the point of contact for us setting this up yeah, no, she's amazing. Here's this is, and then obviously, we're doing a video for she makes sure you don't drop the balls, yeah, and we're doing a video for el acoustic. So they're like, ah, can we get some footage of el acoustic showroom? And then, like I'll copy darren in. It's from Nick. And then Nick, you're like I'll copy Zoe in and Zoe sends me the footage which we use. She's perfect from that point of view.
Darren Barker:She's amazing at that and you know I've known Zoe. I went to school with Zoe, so I've known Zoe for 30 years Blimey and then Max, who many of the integrators would have got to know over the years. Max has been with us for three and a half years now. He did a degree in architecture. We took him straight out of university and his development's been fantastic and he's both as a designer and as an individual, in terms of service and the way he conducts himself, he's brilliant. So, um, aaron, who who you met, he handles a lot of our technical drawings on that process in the middle which I describe and he's the guy with one hand on the keyboard, one hand on the mouse doing this aaron was three years, he was part of our site teams, okay.
Darren Barker:So, um, when, when that role needed needed filling, we, we, we, we looked at new applicants where their cad shops were superb, but they don't necessarily know how we build rooms and what the details are. And, and aaron expressed an interest in it. So we, we, we moved aaron across to the, to the office here and, um, he's a bright lad so it took him no time to pick up the CAD, but he already had the built-in mindset of how we go about construction.
Stuart Burgess:It's actually he's been on. I mean, it's completely different. But I worked for the business years ago where every year they used to send their head office staff down onto the shop floor and the week always started off oh God, why am I doing this? By the end of the week, the people who came down were like this is brilliant, because the knowledge of the shop floor, in respect of the knowledge of him being on site, is invaluable to the design process or, in that case, the process that was at head office in the future, yeah, 100%. So I can see that how that would fit in and work beautifully for you guys.
Darren Barker:Yeah, 100%. And then on the manufacture and install side, all the guys are employed and I think that's really important for control and I'm very proud to say that in touch words. No one's ever left us, so hopefully we look after people. But then on the other unique side is, for example, in the showroom environment here, like these beautiful metal details, we handle all that bespoke fabrication in-house. Okay, Then we can control the quality, the detail, the lead time, everything that comes about it. So I employ a full-time fabricator and Simon, who's a general.
Darren Barker:Not another Simon, another Simon Blimey Too many Simons, but Simon, I've worked with him for 20 years. He's always done our metal work and then he'd come with us on a full-time basis a couple of years ago. John, who's our installation manager, has been with me, and Pat pretty much since the off and very experienced, great attitude, great attention to detail. And then we've got Finn and David. David I've known for many years. He supports the site teams but also runs our workshop and our warehouse. Finn's been with us coming up to a year now and he's brilliant. He's got great potential.
Stuart Burgess:So I probably went a bit too in-depth with all that but it's great To be honest, it's good to give people a family and we genuinely care about the projects that we deliver.
Darren Barker:It's great To be honest, it's good to give people, a flexible team, and we genuinely care about the projects that we deliver and hopefully that shows in the work that we produce as well.
Stuart Burgess:So obviously, the typical projects you're on at the moment. Obviously you're doing stuff for Cy, the other, simon Gregory. You've done the showrooms. Have you got any other showrooms or projects you're working on for Cy, the other, simon Gregory, you've done the showrooms. Have you got any other showrooms or projects you're working on at the moment? Obviously, you don't have to say names or locations yeah, we're working on loads.
Darren Barker:You're constantly busy, we're busy, so we, on average, we deliver.
Darren Barker:Last year we delivered about 54 rooms, I think it was Really so we're very spread geographically as well, which is great, and we've had a good year so far and hopefully is looking good for the rest of the year as well.
Darren Barker:So we're just kind of quietly building and going about our business to again just really the main focus on being doing a really good job, um, and we naturally have sort of fallen down the conversation, speaking at it from an industry perspective and integrators and whatnot.
Darren Barker:But I'm also very, very aware and conscious and completely support what you're trying to do with the podcast, which is be a more client facing entity. Thank you To talk about the industry, because it's an industry and a profession which I think a lot of end users don't necessarily know exists, or they may know something like it exists, but they don't fully understand it, nor do they need to fully understand it, by the way. But in terms of awareness of the profession is important and and I like to think that because we do cross over from smart home av world into interior design and construction and those elements that we can help bridge that awareness gap again by delivering good quality projects that receive the right awards and recognition and press, and and so hopefully we can be part of that exposure of the industry to those residential and ngs.
Stuart Burgess:I think the thing. I think the thing is, I think you know, obviously, being in the industry for nearly 20 years myself, simon's been a little bit more than me, I think that and the whole reason between you know, with myself and Owen and Mel starting it up, is to shout a bit more about the industry. You know we've mentioned before we're great about talking to ourselves, to ourselves, yeah, and actually Cinemara is almost like this holy grail. I mean, we said it in episode one of the podcast, uh, ironically filmed our acoustics was that a cinema room is no different to a kitchen. Obviously it's very different, but it's no different cost wise. You know you actually can get a room like this. Um, you know, I sat in our friend roddy again in his little sort of like demo room, uh, last week and actually I think you know, when you put into the cost of an ultimate cost of a room like this and an ultimate cost of a kitchen, when you consider the appliances and everything in it, I still think sometimes the kitchen costs more.
Darren Barker:I've absolutely no doubt, and it will probably continue to do yeah, um and you don't need a big space like this room.
Stuart Burgess:Is what is this room? Roughly four and a half, three and a half, yeah, something like five or three and a half, so, and actually so, this is a typical room in a typical house. You know whether that be a townhouse. You know a semi-detached or a tap detached. It's a. It's an old kid's bedroom. It's a room that's not an old office. It's the room that's not being used anymore.
Darren Barker:I think, as long as it's sold and pitched and designed as an experience, immersive experience, space, and not as a collection of technology with how it's been historically probably guilty of being sold at times, been historically probably guilty of being sold at times, yep, um, I'm talking on sort of mid-residential level here, not sort of rooms where people are aiming for the panacea of technical performance. I'm talking a good, balanced level of performance and interior and fit out. Then they're amazing rooms. So I'm I'm lucky to have a cinema at home and we use it all the time and it's a space that we use with the kids and it's not just for movies, it's for everything Not just for movies, it is for everything, but until you've had that.
Darren Barker:You know, when I started doing this, I was of the mindset well I don't know if I'd actually have a cinema myself. I don't know if I'd use it. I was of the mindset well, I don't know if I'd actually have a cinema myself, I don't know if I'd use it. Now I've got one. I touch wood, wouldn't be without one, because it becomes an important part about how we live. It almost bookmarks the end of the day.
Stuart Burgess:It's probably the way I'd describe it and I suppose you know I'm lucky enough I had the showroom. I haven't got the showroom at the moment, but during COVID, for us as a family, our daughter wasn't at school. My wife works from home, I run my own business, I was still working. But to be able to just get out of the house and go up to the office and watch Aladdin or watch the girls watching Strictly or something like that, or just being somewhere you could sit and enjoy your favorite content, that's what makes these rooms really good and honestly, I think you know what you guys have done from my point of view is make these rooms even more special. Um, you know, like even just sitting in here, you know it's. There are so many rooms, an aspirational space.
Stuart Burgess:There's so many rooms like this in particular, oh yeah, there's so many rooms like this, but you've yeah, there's so many rooms like this, but you've just added, you know, in respects of a coffered ceiling, a starlight ceiling. You know fabric walls. But then the design elements that you've done in this space, where you know you've got your niches with the you know, until you told me I didn't realize they were metal. You know you've got a nice wooden floor around the edges with a carpet in the middle to sort of take that audio down.
Stuart Burgess:A bit rated and considered yeah and you know the coffered ceiling is, you know, has got wooden elements with the air conditioning vent hidden in it. Um, it just takes it up to that next level which, you know, for someone who wants some a room that they they feel special, you know, getting in a nice car and sitting in a nice seat. You know, I do think kudos to you guys, what I've seen, the jobs you've done you.
Darren Barker:You fit in to that perfectly, thank you that's nice to hear and I think that another thing I've found quite encouraging over the last couple of years for I'm always going to gravitate towards cinema because of what we do but with with cinema and home cinema is five, ten years ago. It used to be if you saw a house that was six to ten thousand square foot, there'd generally be a space, yeah, on the architect plans that was marked as cinema. But it was those those real baller houses um multi-level basement where you saw it. Now, when you see really any architect plans above about 3,000 square foot, they've got a cinema marked on it and I think that's really encouraging for the industry. There's an awareness that there's a desire for people to have these spaces and they're starting to be built into projects early and I think that the industry as a whole will feel the benefit of that. I think it'll take a few years to come through, I think.
Stuart Burgess:I think it's really encouraging, I think covid, in a way, is if you could say covid has helped. I think covid has helped us as a, as a generation, you know, as a, as humanity realized that all of a sudden things could very much be taken away when you know, when you're in lockdown and then people sort of thought I can't go to a restaurant, I can't do this, I can't do that, and actually you know, now people can do that. Unfortunately, we're seeing a downcline in restaurants. People go to restaurants.
Stuart Burgess:We're going to see a decline in people going to cinema, because I think people are just a little bit more like well, I could just do this at home. Okay, you're gonna have to go to an odin many times to be able to afford a high-end. You know a good cinema, but but what it gives you back in that space, as you say, you get in, you see the family, maybe sit down and have some tea and then you're like actually, yeah, do you want to go in and watch and or or do you want to feel more the football's on tonight, and that's what I think these spaces are really good at doing and also, I think, just content's up it's going.
Darren Barker:You know, if you look at the, if you look at some of the streaming box sets now, yeah, you know the quality of production on them.
Stuart Burgess:They're ready to be used on these systems it wasn't and or 300 million or something that was, that cost, that didn't exist 10 years ago.
Darren Barker:So cinema was then very much about movies, yeah, and now it can be very much about general watching and sports and whatnot. And I think that. I think that the content has helped open the room up to more possibilities, because it no long is no longer a room that's used once a fortnight yeah, it's a room that can be used daily, and I think that helps the industry as a whole. Um, but it's. And also what I think is really refreshing is, you know, the rooms have become much more design-led. You know the days of them just being functional rooms, and I'm not talking about outrageous detailing, outrageous expense, but just more considered from a design point of view. And one thing I think that's happened is 10 years ago. I think a cinema is predominantly a male purchase yeah, definitely, and I no longer believe it's a male purchase no, it's definitely.
Stuart Burgess:It could be led by either, but actually it's a family decision I mean it is.
Stuart Burgess:We did one in tunbridge wells just just as kobe was coming out, and that was uh, this room has been everything, um, you know, some was going off to university, daughter was still at home. We've got this space downstairs. We don't know what to do with it. So, as a family, we sat down and discussed about what we want to do and we thought let's do a cinema. And then that's when they found us and we were put in there. Yes, and now it's a room that I know that they use every day, whether it's the daughter having her friends over to, the husband escaping down there for nine hours to watch sports on a Sunday, or just sitting down and watching her family. They are just great rooms.
Darren Barker:Becoming more design-led, I think really helps with that accessibility. Yeah, definitely, they're no longer a geeky male space, which they maybe have been historically.
Stuart Burgess:yeah, no figurines of a doom character in the background or just, you know just a bit less of yeah, yeah so with uh, so with cinema lux, you, you touched on, obviously, busyness.
Stuart Burgess:We said earlier, uh, you said to me earlier that you was planning a little extension here. So what do you see in the year? We're 2025. We are 2025, aren't we? Yeah, we're 2025. What do you see, let's say, for the next five years up to 2030, obviously, a little expansion. Is that more office space? So you're not sitting on top of each other.
Darren Barker:It's more office and meeting space. Here, really, the core is to continue doing and getting better at what we do and continue striving to take it to to the next level when putting out good quality work, because good quality work usually means that your business will grow. Because, for itself, exactly and there's some products that we're but that we're launching um, because we're we're at the moment, we're exclusively design and build yeah, and we don't do design, only projects and because we feel it's important for us to be able to manage the quality of the output, because then that ultimately affects your reputation as a business, but we have been developing some smart modular product that is supply only through our integrator network, and we've developed a modular media wall.
Darren Barker:It's different to what the market's got at the moment because it is joinery based, but it is designed with the integrator in mind and we will launch that properly at AI Live this year, so September 2025? Correct? Yeah, we've shown a prototype of it on a couple of occasions. It's been very well received, but we've refined. The manufacturer UK made four week lead time modular configurator, you know, very end user friendly, just like specking a tesla, yeah, doing it with with furniture, um, but designed so it's a you know, a one day install for an integrator, and so I think that's quite a exciting development for us because, to be honest, I've always wanted a product-based business. I've never had one.
Stuart Burgess:It's always been service-based, which, okay, this is product and service, but without the service, the product doesn't sell it's, in a way, is that you can't really call it passive, but it's that for a business point of view, it's that passive recurring revenue it's that it's that something that sits there, potentially takes, utilizes the facilities you've already got but doesn't take as much time as the bigger projects you had.
Stuart Burgess:So it's something that the the guys could make relatively easy and ship out, compared to you know again, if you, if you look at, like, uh, elacoustics or acoustics, um, you know those projects are multiple days, yeah.
Darren Barker:An entirely bespoke, yeah, and it's um. To have a standard which is customizable, yeah, is different to entirely bespoke and like the. The way that we've worked on it in the background is we've done all the design work, we own all the cnc files, we own all the thing on it, so then we're in control of the manufacturer and so I can ensure that that doesn't touch our day-to-day here and impact upon that. And then we're looking at the modular wall panel. Again, it's the acoustic wall panel. Again, it's quite different to what's on the market because it is more joinery based. It is more, you know, visually.
Darren Barker:I my guess would be more in line with something interior designer or an architect will specify. Yeah, and but again, that's in the the same corresponding finishes as the media. So I'd be interested to see how that develops. You could do the media wall with the panels, absolutely. That's the that concept. So it can either be a standalone piece or in conjunction. And so we've been looking at that alongside continuing to develop our ways of working, our methods and techniques with our complete, more bespoke solutions Of course, at the end of the day, no business ever stands still.
Stuart Burgess:I mean, I look back at some of the rooms I did 2018, 2019, and although they're phenomenal rooms, I can honestly say that I'd probably do them completely differently now. Sure you would, because in that six, seven years you've learned new things. There's new products that come up on the market. Yeah, so for an integrator, so for a consumer, obviously you're integrator only based, so if a consumer watches this um, wants to get in touch with you, best to go via a hea member or an integrator, or can they ring you direct and you'll speak to a local integrator, either or, and that's exactly how.
Darren Barker:That's exactly how that would work. So you know our policy of we we don't sell and install speakers and control systems and for stands, but it doesn't mean that you can't procure a turnkey solution via us as an end user. Yeah, and because, equally just as if a a client was referred to one of our integrator partners or an hca member that was an integrator of ours, they would bring us in board for the interior and the fit out of that, it can absolutely work around the other way. So if an interior designer, architect, end user, client, contractor, qs contacts us and says I've got this project, these are the details, then we're very happy to then pass that on to one of our integrator partners, either based on location or project suitability.
Stuart Burgess:You know, we'll have some integrators and some HCA members, for example, that are brilliant at bespoke retail, and there'll be others which are more geared up for MDU-like commercial spaces and we can bring the right partner in from that point of view I suppose, because, looking at, like you know, uh, speaking to a friend of ours, uh, digesh from nucleus, you know they're doing the well house at the moment in chelsea harbour, um, and he referenced the fact that they have so many either high network of individuals or interior designers, uh, who are going through and they just completely get it straight away. And I think the thing is, with the facility you've built here and the summit and the facilities that I've seen out, there is, those type of people will completely get it, yeah, and the end user walking in here will just completely get and know what you do straight away.
Darren Barker:And as we're, we're a good company as a problem solver yeah because you know these are there's problems on all of them. Well, they're you know, not looking so insular just at the rooms that we're sitting in here, and these are complex builds, complex construction.
Darren Barker:So if you've got a eight to ten thousand square foot build, this is a tiny element of that build. For the overarching architects, interior designers, contractors so often on those projects, those problem solvers that take away the headaches of rooms which require a lot of coordination, such as a cinema, are worth their weight in gold. So we we always do well on that side because we again I've used the term again but we take ownership of the room and and then it's a predictable outcome with it's fairly hands-off for contractors in interior designer, for example, can still have influence and control over the overall look and feel and decal. So it works with the wider palette and interior design scheme, but they don't need to micromanage the details. They don't need to micromanage okay, it's that profile. If that's 36 mil, how's that going to line up with this panel and where's the the junction point going to be?
Darren Barker:they're not interested in that. They're very happy to have some some handle on the overall look and feel, but managing that detail they're always happy to leave it to the experts.
Stuart Burgess:So from an integrator point of view and obviously, in fairness, from my point of view as an integrator so I've got a client, we've been to see the client, we've seen the plans or seen the space we say, well, actually we've got these guys that we think could do a really good job on the fit out for you that we work in collaboration with. Obviously we would. Then and I said, let's bring the person here, um, and then. So how do you, what's your standard sort of way of getting involved in a project after a recommendation from an integrator?
Darren Barker:it's kind of project driven, because each project has its own set of criteria. But as a general rule or the panacea, if you like, in terms of how it would work, is you come across a project, you think, okay, this looks like it's suitable for collaboration with Cinema Lux, we normally recommend that we're introduced at the design stage of that project and then we become an asset, an ally to your team. So from that, the key thing for us from a design point of view is extracting a good quality brief. So sometimes we receive projects with very little detail and you're kind of guessing Don't get me wrong, we're old, we're experienced, you can look at okay, this is the style of the property, these are the details.
Darren Barker:If we can extract some mood balls from adjacent spaces, we'll have a steer. But there's no substitute for getting direct brief either from client or client representative. You can do that face-to-face, you can do it via a call. If neither of those options are available, we have our our client portal, um, which I'm happy to share the the the login details for um, which has a huge amount of concept design work in there to help give a visual steer for a client right in terms of what they do and don't like. Yeah, so, but in essence it's take a brief and then we'll work on on the design concept and we'll work on it primarily in 3D to start with, which then helps generate the visuals, cgi, mood boards, everything that comes with it.
Darren Barker:Big difference with our 3D work and our CGI they're all buildable models. So in a world where the quality of visuals and cgi's is insane, it's going through the roof and you do sometimes have to squint to see whether that's real or not, don't you? You do, but you know the amount of projects which I see where we're sent the cgi. My first reaction is you can't build that. Yeah, that's not buildable solution. No, this client has been sold a fantasy. Yeah, um, that no one can deliver, or no one can deliver within those pricing parameters or whatever it may be yeah so it's.
Darren Barker:So we ensure that whatever we present is buildable and deliverable in the real world, which is super important, I think. Um, and then it also means that we can quantify properly from a quoting point of view. So again I've gone off a little bit on a tangent, but it's brief design specification. We aim to and I say aim to because sometimes it fluctuates we aim to turn that around in a week Because I think it's important when you've got an engaged client to keep that momentum. Now, sometimes that's actually too quick a turnaround for a client, or sometimes we had I think it was February or something we got 22 projects in a week. We're only a little team to manage that a little bit in terms of speak to everyone, and no, this is not a priority, we need it in three weeks' time. But generally speaking, that sort of five to seven-day window I think is really important for capturing people.
Stuart Burgess:Because it's almost like. I mean mean, I analogize our industry with cars. You've gone to the car showroom or you've seen the car, you've maybe test driven the car or actually you might be excited about. You're excited about test driving and they say I'll come back next sunday and you could drive it for that whole week. You were like next sunday I'll go to test drive it and and it's the responsibility of the sales guy to try and keep that there capture that, and also for the client you know they've been excited about.
Darren Barker:They want to see the result. This is a fun space for people absolutely it is, and you know it's a. People work very hard to put themselves in a privileged position for it to even be an option. So, um so, again I've gone.
Stuart Burgess:Sorry don't worry, I do all the time as well.
Darren Barker:Yeah, um, but it's brief design. It all the time as well. Yeah, but it's brief design. And at that stage as well, we'd have a conversation with yourself, for example Okay, what's your thoughts from a system perspective? What are you looking to incorporate so that we again understand the technical requirements of that room quite early? So?
Stuart Burgess:do you require technical drawings from a sound point of view? So let's say some of the stuff that paul would do acoustics, or would you if, say, someone came to you and said, look, the room will pull off a I don't know a 7.2.2 system, and then you design the speaker locations into that, based on industry standards or depends on the integrated right.
Darren Barker:Okay, to be honest, um, yes, we do our best to adhere to industry standards. Um, you know, we've we've had that education. We stay up on that education. It's important for us to know, um, what the, the current mindset, the recommendations are. And you know, we'll have some integrators where we get super technical plans from the off. Yeah, we'll have some integrators where we'll be a fag packet, if that you know so. And then also, we work. We have good relationships with most, if not all, suppliers really.
Darren Barker:So you mentioned artcuse. They do a great technical design pack. So I'll know that if it's a project that we're both on, we can speak with Artcoustic in the background. And sometimes we have a quick video call and say I'm thinking of moving the back wall forward here, 600 mil, so we can do X, y and Z. Does that work with what you're thinking in your sub-position? So it's more support for the integrator and a better result for the end client. That's always the aim. Same with L-Acoustics. Have a great service like that.
Darren Barker:And you know we have a lot of projects where we all see wisdom, for example. So we'll dovetail with a wisdom team at Habitech Meridian's a similar example, and it's again, it's just about doing the right thing for the job and the client. And then of course, the client says that's brilliant, I'll go for that. Yeah, it's as simple as that normally unfortunately not always that easy, but um, and then that's when, in the background, that that hidden part of the service starts. So that's where the technical drawings, coordination, site meetings, managing all the stakeholders, really yeah, um, and then we'll do a lot of um. Where we can, we'll have product um engineered off site. So we draw and cut. In this we have an awful lot of material cnc cut um so that we're as prepared as we can be when we get to site. And then it's just about being diligent and managing all the details, really. So that's a short version of the back end.
Stuart Burgess:I think you get the picture. Yeah, because sometimes you're especially when there's more trades involved you have a limited window where you know you can come in. This week, I mean, I was with this project, we were talking with south kensington. He said how long is it going to take you? I said it could be probably somewhere between 10 and 15 working days I'm not sure, but we're not sure about what and he said well, that's quite long. I said well, obviously we're trying to get it done in the 10, but I'm just telling you 10 to 15 probably. Um, we're working to finite windows because we've only got limited room, limited space, there's not much parking, so we're not a stately mansion that 30 trades come up to. So you said it's important for us to manage the project, which is goes back to understanding the project.
Darren Barker:You know, yeah, and you know you'd I'd say that you're armed with that information from the off we'd possibly design a room different to what you do. We do it the same if we do projects abroad, as if we do a project somewhere in Europe. We'll design that room intentionally from the off quite different so that we can manage the supply chain and the construction time. So it all comes back to understanding the brief of the project. It's like the simplest but the most important thing on not just interiors. I think anything where you're specifying anything for a home, same with technology, yeah, understanding what ticks the boxes for those users is the most important thing. That's it, because at the end of the day, um, it's the most important thing.
Stuart Burgess:That's it, because the end of the day, it's a client's room and you know, and I've often said you know, the last thing I want from you, mr client, is for you to sit in this room and not regret that's a strong word but have any doubts of the fact of the money you've invested into this space. I want you to come in here with your you know, with your favorite glass of wine, watching your favorite content, and just be in a space that you enjoy being in. You know, again, it's an analogous of cars. I want you to buy that mercedes or that bentley and sit in it and not think I've just dropped a quarter of a million on this. Why did I do that? I want you to sit and enjoy it. It's value for money and the requirements. So anything else you wanted to touch on before we wrap up?
Darren Barker:I don't think so. I've probably waffled on enough.
Stuart Burgess:No, no, it's been brilliant.
Darren Barker:But yeah, coming right back to the beginning, we are in essence a design and build contractor. That's laid the focus for these rooms and this industry, and that's what makes us unique.
Stuart Burgess:Well and again, think that your your point of you know, you said it once in this. Uh, you did an advert in essential is still recently. Which is important for the integrator to understand is that we don't sell speakers.
Stuart Burgess:We're friend, not a foe you don't sell speakers, projectors, screens, all of that. You You're actually. We'll help you sell them. Well, and, as I say, you know I've set myself a 10-year plan. I've just turned 50. You know, I run the Home Cinema Alliance. I also run Immersive Cinema Rooms as well as HGA Media. I love cinema. I really really enjoy cinema.
Stuart Burgess:But from my point of view and from my client's point of view, it's almost like, uh, I'm getting increasingly more fed up with some of the mundane jobs on site. So I think one of my ideas of seeing what you've done with the other guys but coming in myself, is to say, right, okay, we'll still design and do all that along with you, we'll still do the first fix and all those elements and get it up and running. But actually that, that middle section which you know we could be off dealing with another client, helping them to achieve their dream, we can hand that over to you, knowing that you guys are safely gonna give us something that then we can come back into and just, you know, finalize it, you know, put the wheels on it and polish the hood and then go to the client.
Stuart Burgess:Here you go. This is how you use it.
Darren Barker:It's exactly it it's a it's using everyone for their specialist skill set, and uh, yeah, I concur so best way to get in contact with your website address?
Stuart Burgess:website address yeah, absolutely yeah, so cinemaluxcouk yeah, so cinemalux.
Darren Barker:we're at luxecouk. I'm going to contact through there. Best place in social medias and things like that if people want to see your projects obviously Instagram's what we use as a showcase, for sure, so we showcase a lot of completed projects on there, so that's a good place to find us as well. We already work with a lot of completed projects on there, so that's a good place to find us as well, and you know we already work with a lot of hca members and so um.
Stuart Burgess:Equally, if there's end users that are working on a project, um that would like us to sprinkle some salt and pepper on their project probably the best way to describe it from a design perspective and there's there's a strong possibility that they've already working through hca, for example, that we we already have a strong relationship with that integrator and it becomes a very seamless process the fact that you guys handle it from a collaboration with other installers.
Stuart Burgess:You know you're not here to take anybody else's trade, you know you're here to enhance, yeah and I think you know and I honestly you know that's why I was keen to get your camera was to basically, you know, learn a little bit more about cinema lux, but also learn a little bit more about how you can work with myself, with the hca members, and actually that you are a you're in, you're a company that's there to help the integrator to work on maybe bigger projects, that which are a little bit like whoa, because they've got many trades, but also on these smaller rooms, just to give something client clients like a little bit different. That, you know, maybe is a bit more interior focus yeah absolutely, but uh, so no, well, look.
Stuart Burgess:Thank you for your time. I really do appreciate it, thank you for having me no great to get your camera, and uh yeah, let's go and grab a coffee because it's getting warm in here thank you very much, cheers darren.
Darren Barker:Thanks a lot, mate.
Stuart Burgess:Thanks mate, thank you.