The Home Cinema Alliance - Tech Talk Podcast
A consumer-facing podcast hosted by industry veterans, Stuart Burgess from Immersive Cinema Rooms and Simon Gregory from Cinema Rooms.
Each episode, we bring you News, Reviews, and Interviews from inside the industry covering Home Cinema, Home Theatre, and all things tech.
Get involved podcast@homecinemaalliance.co.uk
The Home Cinema Alliance - Tech Talk Podcast
From RAF to Electrician to Integrator to Distributor - The rise of Moss Tech
What happens when military-grade precision meets home automation? Andy from Moss Tech reveals his remarkable journey from Royal Air Force electronic engineer working on Tornado and Jaguar aircraft to pioneering smart home solutions across the UK.
Andy's transition began modestly—a one-man electrical business started while still serving in the RAF, sometimes accepting payment in runner beans from grateful elderly clients. This side hustle, built on the foundation of military punctuality and attention to detail, gradually evolved into Moss Technical Services and eventually secured the coveted UK distributorship for Niko Home Control systems.
Unlike many smart home solutions that focus primarily on audiovisual elements, Niko targets the electrical backbone of installations—lighting, heating, ventilation, and shading control. The system's elegant design eliminates "wall acne" by incorporating thermostats and humidity sensors directly into light switches, creating cleaner aesthetics while enhancing functionality. As Andy aptly puts it, "We expect lights to come on when it goes dark in our cars. We expect wipers to start when it rains. We need to bring homes to that level."
The conversation explores Moss Tech's philosophy of quality over price, their survival through the 2008 recession, and how that challenging period led to the creation of Cost of Cancer—a charity founded by Andy's wife Nicky that helps families pay bills during cancer treatment. Their newly opened showroom demonstrates how Niko integrates with brands like Control 4, HD Anywhere, and Sonos to create comprehensive smart home experiences.
With an industry-wide skills shortage, Moss Tech now focuses on training the next generation of smart home professionals through personalised, hands-on courses. Whether you're an electrician looking to expand your expertise, an architect seeking seamless home automation solutions, or a homeowner dreaming of intelligent living spaces, this episode offers valuable insights into the future of residential technology.
Coming up on this week's episode of the HCA Tech Talk podcast.
Speaker 2:So I was in the Royal Air Force as an electronic engineer apprentice initially. I did 13 years in the RAF working on Tornado and Jaguar aircraft. So I did three years on Tornadoes, nine years on Jaguars, yeah. So basically a lot of smart home solutions. They're aimed at the AV side of things, whereas Niko is aimed at the electrical backbone, backbone of the installation. So lighting, heating, ventilation, shading, control, but this is it. We expect it from the automotive industry. We expect lights to come on when it goes dark or when you go in a tunnel, you expect the wipers to start when it starts raining, you expect the you know ABS to kick in when you hit the brakes too hard. These are all things standard in the automotive industry. We need to bring homes to that level.
Speaker 3:Thinking of building your dream home cinema? Don't know where to start. Start with the HCA. At the Home Cinema Alliance, we connect homeowners with the very best in the business. Our members are trusted designers, installers and technology experts who know how to turn any room into a breathtaking cinematic experience. Whether you're building from scratch or converting a spare room, our members are here to help you every step of the way.
Speaker 1:Visit our website to find your local member at homecinemareliancecouk so, hi, andy, thanks for taking the time to meet up with me today and sit down having a chat about yourself and a bit about moss tech. Um. So first of all, where are we based? We're in South Wales. Very long drive this morning, a bit bleary-eyed, so just so people know roughly where you are located in the great United Kingdom. Whereabouts are you?
Speaker 2:So we're just off the M4 corridor, halfway between Cardiff and Swansea, so a little village called Pyle.
Speaker 1:So we're just on the South south wales coast so about, I think it was about an hour from the bridge this morning. Really, um, roughly yeah, the bridge.
Speaker 2:To be honest with you, I mean swindon hour and a half, bristol 45 minutes, so it's not too bad to be fine not too bad out of the mainland. No, no, no, no, no. I mean london's two and a half hours, so it's not too've got to say.
Speaker 1:Actually it was leaving the stupid o'clock this morning and it's a Friday, so it was a lovely drive up. I think I said to you I literally stopped at the end of my road to turn right and then it was literally just all the way here which was amazing for the M25 and the M4 corridor.
Speaker 2:Best time to travel. I do it all the time. Hit the road early, get there nice and fresh yeah, I know you are an early riser. Like me prefer the morning hours morning hours on the road, you you miss all the traffic and in the office early because you can get more done between half five and eight than you can in the rest of the day combined.
Speaker 1:Yeah, although it does when you do get to like half past eight nine a little bit but anyway, there is age, or just that we work I think that's age.
Speaker 2:I think that's age. Yeah, yeah, it's starting to catch up a bit so.
Speaker 1:So, with these sort of like sit down conversations that we've been doing, um, I've been liking to sort of get to know a bit about the person, a bit about the history of the company, how the person got into the industry, and then you know, sort of like then, now and in the future, yeah, so tell me a little bit about andy, tell me a bit about how you know how, how you started out really fresh out of college or university. Yeah, take us way back, not saying you're old, take us well, I am old, but uh, yeah, um.
Speaker 2:So um went to school, started college but joined the raf at 17. So I was in the Royal Air Force as an electronic engineer apprentice initially. I did 13 years in the RAF working on tornado and jaguar aircraft. So I did three years on tornadoes, nine years on jaguars and in between that there was some further training and always had aspirations to be my own boss and just run a business. So I left the RAF in 2000.
Speaker 2:I started the business actually a little before then started it in 1998 as a one-man band electrician, just working evenings and weekends and just really loved the fact that you could do a small job for a little old lady, put a power back on, and the gratitude and turning up on time and just just that level of appreciation just just really uh, stuck with me, um, you know, and. And plenty of jobs, certainly for the for the older folk. You know you you don't really want to charge them, to be honest. So I mean I got paid in runner beans once and uh, it doesn't pay the bills, but it's just a nice feeling to know that somebody's just appreciated your service and it it sort of grew from there really.
Speaker 1:So was that back then? Was that, you know, like, so you were still in the RAF for a couple of years, yeah, yeah, doing what I've said to a few people that I know within this industry, which was, like you know, try and do something on the side to build up a little bit before you cut the cord and jump over.
Speaker 2:Exactly. And I think, being in the forces I was, you know, and I'll be the first to admit I was probably institutionalised. You know I didn't know what a P60 was. You know everything's pretty much done for you. So, although you're at the, you know the upper echelons of your technical trade. You know, and right up there with technical ability and everything. You know you're sheltered. You go to the mess for food. You're given your uniform. You know all you've got to do is sort of press an eye in it and things like that.
Speaker 2:So the outside world and what we call Civvy Street was just complete alien to me. And of course, you know when you're paid, that guaranteed. You know monthly pay every month, come what may. It's a lot to give up on the hope that you um can fill that, that void. And to be fair, um, doing it side by side was a real sort of you know it was sort of testing the water with one foot, not both feet.
Speaker 2:But what I found was that the qualities and the DNA that was in me with the RAF, you know that punctuality, reliability, attention to detail, that's instilled in you and it has to be working. On aircraft, you know you can't just pull an aircraft over at the side of the road. If there's a problem, you know it crashes, simple as that. So you have that attention to detail and that becomes your DNA. So you take that into Civvy Street and customers love that. You say you're going to be somewhere at 8 o'clock. You turn up at 5 to and even if you're going to be there at quarter to, you phone the client and you say I'm running early, is it convenient or would you like me to wait a little? And I'd even phone from the traffic lights at the end of the street if it was going to put me sort of 30 seconds late. And so word of mouth then gets around and sure enough, the work came flooding in to the point at which something had to give. I think that's it.
Speaker 1:Especially, as you say, your little old ladies. They love that you turn up on time, if not early. I mean, I was in retail years ago and one thing they always drummed into us this was victoria wine one thing they always drummed into us was that for every person you give good service to, they'll tell one other person. Yeah, for every person you give bad service to, they'll tell 24 other people. So that little old lady who you turned up five minutes early to and you did a good job for her, yeah, yeah, yeah and paid in runner beans they don't you don't tell them their best friend that.
Speaker 1:But then, that sort of, especially for an electrician, that sort of thing sort of.
Speaker 2:But I've always found and you know, even at the start, you know, when we started install it, we were I was doing basic electrics and alarms and cctv and um and the level of kit that I wanted to install the local wholesaler. He, he was only selling, you know, the cheaper end of the market. And I said no, I want to install this. And he said you'll never sell it, it's too expensive. But it was the much better quality at the time.
Speaker 2:I'm not going to mention brands I don't think the brand's around anymore, but it was an alarm panel and it's what I did, my training on when I left the RAF. Okay, I left the RAF, okay, and sure enough, I'm like, yeah, you need to put another 10 of those on the shelf, this, that and the other. And I felt then that, competing on quality and not price, I've always said we're not the cheapest and we don't want to be the cheapest, because there's only one thing that gives then, and that's quality. If you're cutting corners, you know to be able to achieve something within a time scale that you've priced for, you have to cut corners any time scale that you've priced for you.
Speaker 1:You have to cut corners and and we won't do that. So I think you end up yeah, you end up getting in sense. I mean, I've been there as well with with my other business, which was you know, the client will phone you how you've had a client, show me other clients, other people's quotes. Will you match this? No, why don't you want the job? I want the job, but this is my price for the professional work I do exactly. You know if I match their price.
Speaker 2:I'm just doing you a price yeah, you're not going to compare a claridge's bill at the end of uh of a meal with with a wagamama's, for instance do you know what I mean it's? Or or whatever other restaurant you go to, because you you're paying for that, that dish, aren't you?
Speaker 1:so unfortunately, sometimes you do find the people that go down that route. They end up learning to regret it at the end of the day, but maybe if they're selling their house on they don't really bother. So obviously this was the early noughties, as they are commonly known. So were you Moss Tech at that point?
Speaker 2:So I was Moss Electrical and then, when I was in the RAF overlapping, I then felt that the name wasn't quite right because we were doing more alarms and CCTV. So we became Moss Technical and it was Moss Technical Services and then it became Moss Technical Services Limited and we were doing everything from. We had to start employing because, of course, we became too busy and I needed help. We had to start employing because, of course, we became too busy and I needed help. So we grew the business then and we became quite large. We had large contracts with a large house builder doing new build sites and things like that. And of course then the recession hit and we took a bit of a knock. So that's 2007, 2008, wasn't it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I literally just sold my house. I do, yeah, funny enough, I literally just sold the house. We were going to buy another house, yeah, but unfortunately, my wife lost her best friend in 2004. So we actually decided to go to rented for a while whilst I set up the business and my wife changed her job. Yeah, yeah, yeah, in hindsight, that wife's changed her job. Yeah, yeah, yeah, in hindsight, that was brilliant, obviously. That recession, yeah. So when were you? So? Was Nikki working for you? Then? Were you?
Speaker 1:here I mean obviously we were in this, your new showroom, which we've come up to do the launch for and do some stuff around um, so was was Nikki working for you then? Were you in this building at that point?
Speaker 2:not initially full-time, she was doing my accounts and things like that and and your wife doing your accounts well, never.
Speaker 2:Well, well, nikki was in employment but then she came working for us. But then in 2008 she got a phone call saying her best friends got breast cancer. And so in 2008, just as everything was going wrong, you know, with the world and the recession, she then moved up north to look after her and, sadly, a few months later, in 2009, she died. But of course I think that meant that because we'd sort of nearly lost everything when this large house builder went pop on us, I was then able to just literally throw myself into work to survive really. And we have done.
Speaker 2:You know we've come through it. We took a huge knock financially but we paid all our creditors off. We came through it because I didn't want to be one of those that you know you got took for money, so a lot of people they'll fold their business and of course that has that kills other people often and I wouldn't do that. So we fought through it, um, but nikki's friend, um, sadly passing away, gave nikki the, the drive and the installation, the drive and the um, um determination to to be able to help others that are going through I.
Speaker 1:I was going to say, because she's got Cost for Cancer, isn't? She which is her charity?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so Nikki founded Cost of Cancer, which is a charity that pays people's bills while they go through treatment costofcancerorguk. So she's helping families nationwide. Really. They apply for financial help and bills you know Nicky will assess it with her trustees and you know issue grants, you know, to help pay bills. And you know rent rates, energy, things like that, you know, while they go through treatment, because a lot of people can't work. So, even though we suffered really badly in 2008, something really good has come out of it.
Speaker 1:So, um, yeah, well, I think sometimes also, it's just like I've never been a very religious person, but I do believe we're doubt opportunities in our life and I think that sometimes things like the recession, things like covid yeah, you know, I think there's things taken from COVID recently. There's things that we, you know, we never would have done before. Covid Zoom calls yeah, yeah, yeah, things like that. You know video podcasts which are remote yeah, you know things like that. Yeah, there's things that you wouldn't have done, but I think that. So I think things like that recession back then, sometimes they just refocus and unfortunately I've lost friends in my life to cancer and actually what Nikki's done out of that has been brilliant learning that off of her here and then doing a little video for her, which we put up, of her talking about it, which she absolutely loves doing.
Speaker 2:Especially on camera.
Speaker 1:Thank God for B-roll. So that obviously brings us into 2010 and beyond. Um, so obviously at that point, recession had happened. Finding your feet again at that point. Was it just the few of you doing it? Uh, were you here? Um, what was the aspirations for the teens?
Speaker 2:So we just moved into the unit where we are now. We started when the recession hit. We found that all the electricians that were on sites they came into our world of domestic private installations, and so the market was then all of a sudden flooded, and, of course, you're then competing on price. So we then looked to diversify and we started doing smart home installs, primarily lighting control, with a product called NicoBus, and Nico at the time had a UK office in Fancot that we were dealing with, and but that office was closed in 2011 and we approached Niko about becoming the UK distributor, and that's where we are now.
Speaker 1:Before we get on to the new showroom you've got here, did you have training showroom facilities here before we did?
Speaker 2:yes, so we trained electricians and installers to install Niko Bus and then on to Niko Home Control as it is now. What we found with with lockdown and Covid is, obviously people couldn't travel for training, so the training then became virtual. So, um, the the training room that we had here, this, the showroom environment, became a little bit sort of tired, a little bit of a dumping ground, needed a refresh. Um, because of course, people weren't really coming to the office anymore. People got out of that habit of traveling because, of course, people weren't really coming to the office anymore. People had got out of that habit of traveling because, of course, they were used to doing Teams calls and things.
Speaker 2:And then, obviously, I got a phone call from Nikki saying I've had an idea, which usually means sort of spending money. So, yeah, she said I want to do the showroom and I don't think she realized that she'd. You know I'd be totally embracing of where we've took it. You know, I think she thought it was going to be like a refresher repaint, but it turned out to be a complete rebuild. So what?
Speaker 1:was in this space before We'll cut to a bit of B-roll of the room. Yeah, so obviously in here now you've got the multi-purpose room with the toilets and that in the end. Yeah, was this space defined before as it?
Speaker 2:is it was. Was this space defined before as it is? It was, it's the same. We weren't able to move the walls, unfortunately, but it was primarily a large projector screen at one end, a boardroom table in the middle, effectively, that we did training on and there was product in here, there was training desks and things like that, but it wasn't really quite right. It was more of a NECOico training area, purely nico, but it wasn't the sort of thing you could bring clients into or architects into. So it gave great hands-on training to installers, um, but, like I say, it just wasn't really front of house like we have it today.
Speaker 1:So tell me a bit about Nico, as in the product. I know of Nico, but it wasn't until, obviously, the opening and having a play and recording lots of content of you talking about Nico? That I sort of got to look at the product and go well, do you know what? Actually, it's quite a good sort of BMS type product. Tell us a little bit about Niko, how it fits in with an electrician's, you know everyday world, yeah.
Speaker 2:So basically a lot of smart home solutions. They're aimed at the AV side of things, whereas Niko is aimed at the electrical backbone of the installation. So lighting, heating, ventilation, shading control pretty much a standard. There's other partner brands that integrate with it for energy management, hvac control, music integration, so there's lots of partner brand integrations. We have a driver for Control 4 and also Nice, which was Elan, so we can basically integrate with anything.
Speaker 2:Now um to to really sort of compete with the um, the, the crestrons and lutrons and control fours you know out there. Um, so yeah, primarily, uh, lighting control, um, a standard. Heating comes a standard with that as well, because of course the switches have got built-in thermostats and humidity sensors uh, really easy to install. So it's anything that. It's something that any electrician can just. Heating comes as standard with that as well, because of course the switches have got built-in thermostats and humidity sensors Really easy to install. So it's something that any electrician can just get into really.
Speaker 2:There's a lot of very good electricians out there, but they're a little bit nervous about getting into the industry, so what they tend to do is sort of pick up retrofit-type brands that are nice and easy, plug-and-play. But if they take a look at Niko, they'll see how easy it actually is. The software is super intuitive. You can't really go wrong with the installation, the way that it's wired, complete free topology of the bus, very, very forgiving if you've forgotten a cable and this, that and the other. So lots of workarounds. Because we've installed it in the past and because we're electricians, we talk the same language as electricians. So when they've got a problem, I've been there with a client breathing down your neck. I've been there sort of trying to overcome these little solutions. So that's where we I think we sort of stand out in the industry the fact that we've got that level of experience to be able to help installers.
Speaker 1:Well stand out in the industry, the fact that we've got that level of experience to be able to help installers. You know, I think, I think, when we were doing the recording the other day of the opening.
Speaker 1:Yeah, uh, you were like, hold on, I just need to take this, yeah, and I'm messing around with the cameras and you're in the background talking to someone and, yeah, okay, so have you tried this, have you tried that? And yeah, as you say, it's good to know the product. So, going back to so the light yes, so they've got a thermostatic sensor in them, are they? And a humidity sensor? Okay, that's interesting, actually, because I didn't know that, because we've dealt with another brand, beginning with P or PD, that does that, and I thought that was one of the only options where you could have that thermostat in the light switch in the room.
Speaker 2:So, the light switch is built-in thermostat in the light switch in the room. So so the the light switch is built in thermostat and humidity sensor. The digital black, which is the small little screen, yeah, that's got a thermostat built into it, not not the humidity sensor, but um, but yeah, it just means that you've got much less on the wall, because the first thing, that the first thing that architects do when they, when they photograph a room, is they'll photoshop out the switches, you know because and and the the wall acne, as we call it, you know the thermostat and things like that, because so they don't want to see these things. So why have a separate thermostat?
Speaker 1:because, of course, that's extra wiring, it's extra cost, it's, it's, it's sometimes ugly on the wall, um, whereas if it can all be built into the switch itself, then then great well, the digital black when you were, when we were shooting some B-roll of that the other day, was that I think you took your phone out of your pocket and you done a couple of little things on the phone to change its layout.
Speaker 2:Layout yeah.
Speaker 1:And boom, it was there. Yeah, yeah. And as a Control 4 dealer myself, I'm like, oh, that's really good. I would have had to get the laptop out to do that. And, as you say, one of the successes we've had we don't do, we don't do a lot of lighting in in the other business because we are mainly cinema rooms. But when we have done lighting before the the whole wall acne thing and saying to the client well, actually, what it means, if you have this system means you don't have to have this, this, this, which means you have less clutter on your wall, and then that sort of interior design focus brain comes out. Would you be like I don't have to have all those switches? No, no, you don't, you just have this one and that will do everything for you.
Speaker 2:And that's the key, isn't it? You've also got the saving on the install. You've got the saving on not having to have the extra thermostat and things like that on the wall. So and buy that, you know so so that there are these little cost savings as well.
Speaker 1:So it value engineers it straight away so do you find when you're on projects? I suppose one of the I found over the years is that you almost become a bit of a conductor. So you go in to do the electrics and maybe a bit of bms, um, but then you stand in those meetings with those clients and the plumber might be there, you know, the hvac guy might be there, the builder might be there, and you say, well guys, actually we could, we could do this together via this. What are you installing? And then you can bring it all together you.
Speaker 2:You do find that you become kingpin on the projects because there's so many elements that you're controlling that you know they need to liaise with you. They can't just do their own thing, you know, otherwise they end up putting their own controls in and it doesn't integrate. So so you often find that you become front and centre with, with orchestrating that and I think you do have to be a little bit sort of like, you say, a conductor to to make sure it all sort of runs smoothly and, and I would say, with anybody trying to get into the industry. You know a lot of electricians who are practicing at the moment. They go to site, they pull the cables, they do the job, they go home. They go to site, they pull the cables, they go home, whereas in the smart home industry you have to make time for the admin.
Speaker 2:You know the communication with the other trades and things like that, because if not, then you know you're, you're at the end of the project and something's not quite working, uh, on the heating side of things, and the heating guy says, well, phone, nico, it's, uh, you know, or phone, phone, phone the installer because they're controlling it.
Speaker 2:Well, you know, um, we often find that we do quite a bit of support and fault finding for things that you know. Naturally somebody blames the smart home solution for, but it turns out to be moisture ingress in an outside light. You know why are the outside lights tripping? Well, it's because you've got moisture ingress, not because of the control side of it. So you do have to keep your finger on the pulse throughout the project and I would always say, you know, you do have to factor in that element of of design and communication with the project and project management for that matter I mean it strikes me as a good little system to for, as you say, for the electricians to jump into, because you know, I've seen it, you know, the aerial satellite guys coming more into smart home market.
Speaker 1:Uh, you know, nearly 20 years I've been doing this. Now, uh, the satellite guys coming more into smart home market. You know, it's been 20 years I've been doing this. Now, the electricians coming more into smart home market, and I think it's actually a good stepping block because you're not going from, I don't know, electricians into Crestron or electricians into Control 4, which is a massive jump.
Speaker 1:You know you're going into a system which, fundamentally, is the same. It may well just be centrally wired, yeah, rather than being wired traditionally. Yeah, what's the? The light switches? Are they on a bus cable?
Speaker 2:they're a bus cable 26 volt dc. They can go on the wall inside the bathroom, um, of course, because then they can read the humidity and what have you as well.
Speaker 1:So yeah, and they are they daisy chain together.
Speaker 2:Daisy chain free topology star wire. Do whatever you want with it, really. So, um, you know, I in my house, when we converted it during lockdown, I joined on to the end of the twin and earth cable above the ceiling and that became my bus wire, so I didn't have to chase the wall.
Speaker 1:So, um, yeah, you can use any cable and I think, oh, we'll cut to a little shot, but like there's a switch down beside me here which lovely matches in with cinema build systems, yeah, uh, bronzer yeah yeah, um, and actually they're really nice looking switches. So, uh, you sometimes have I, I found in projects, you someone's gone out and found a really nice looking switch, but then the euro module one that goes with it doesn't quite fit, or you.
Speaker 1:The outside may be glass, let's say, for instance, but then you're using your black or white triax modules for for another brand or anti-fearance. We're actually looking down this little one down here and they match. It is beautifully matched and then can be, you know, accented to features like this into the fabric.
Speaker 1:So I think that's a really, really good like thing for the product. I mean say, even if we said the other day was, even if you are a smart home installer, an av guy, now, yeah, it's definitely worth looking at. Yeah, um, because I think it's a good little product, um, and I think that, as you say, when you're on site, I think you used it brilliantly. I've got a really good friend of mine, james um, I've known him ever since the sony days used to be a assistant manager for sony. He's become an electrician. He will happily. And he said to me I'll happily go to site, I'll happily pull the cables and I'll happily go home and, and I think the thing is being in this side of the fence, we assume that everybody knows about this side of the fence, but it's amazing how many people who are traditional plumbers, yeah, um, traditional electricians even, yeah, don't really know that it can be pulled together on one system.
Speaker 2:No, no they would, they, a lot of them. They want to stay in that little safe zone, which is fine because of the fear of going into smart technology, but it doesn't have to be complicated, you know. And again, the beauty is is it lends itself to the electrical installation really well but equally commercially full smart home integration. You know, we've done some really really big projects with DALI control, with BMS, bms integration, with um, you know, full-on AV as well, integrating via control.
Speaker 1:Four I say it integrates control four because we've got a core three back there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, there's a core three control in this room, so, and the core three is pulling it all together. So, for instance, the TV distribution we've got HD anywhere in here, so we've got three TVs, as if it's three different rooms. Uh, that's been distributed via a matrix, a HD Anywhere, matrix 4x4. We've also got Sonos integrated in here, so we've got two levels of home theatre. We've got the Marantz AVR with Amina speakers for the surrounds and the height speakers and Gallo Acoustics Profile 3.5s for the fronts, you know. And again, we've also got the Sonos solution as well. The Sonos, it's a Dolby Atmos 9.1.4 with an Arc Ultra ERA 300s and a sub. So we've got different options to be able to show off. But, like I said, the the driver for control four just pulls all this together so tell me a little bit about so.
Speaker 1:Obviously this is 2025, aren't we?
Speaker 1:yes I'm already starting to think about 2026. I made the. I made the, the mistake of mentioning christmas on the podcast the other day and simon didn't take that very happily, it's nearly September, so this has just opened. We're in 2025. So in this system here or in the showroom here beside me, here you've got LG TV with Amina, sonos, scalo, marantz, all distributed by HD Anywhere Control, viper Control 4.
Speaker 1:Towards the back of the room, obviously, we've got the nico, uh, set out with the, the din rail cabinet, yeah, with a bit of control and a bit of garden audio, as well as blinds. Do you do much with blinds? Yeah, because that's something, I think. Another thing, like we go back to our wall acne, I think, another thing a lot of clients don't realize is actually relatively simple to do, and with thermal gain with, you know, heat and actually not just being so, the black air blacks out the room but also stops heat from coming into the room yeah, and being able to integrate you know the room temperature with your blinds and things like that, via the switches you know, to automatically close them or open your skylights if the temperature gets above a certain level.
Speaker 2:You know we work with appeal group uh, appeal blinds and and they were they. They absolutely love the, the level of control, the fact that when you're away from the property, uh, the shading, the blinds can close at sunset and open at sunrise, but it can be staggered as if you've gone around the house and done it yourself for a present simulation. So being able to integrate these things and and also have that level of automation is is second nature. But but equally, a lot of clients, they I always say the most expensive cable you'll ever pull is the one you forget to pull at the start. So put a cable to each window, you know, and then you've got that future proof ability there. So you know there's, there's lots of things we can do.
Speaker 1:Well, I think you touched on it there with stimulative occupancy. I think I've always said to clients myself it's like I'm not a massive fan of alarms, whether that be car alarms or house alarms, because when was the last time you walked past a house? The alarm's going on? Oh, I better call the police. You're more likely to go it's a false alarm or walk on past not my problem, yeah.
Speaker 2:So you know, making the house look lived in yeah.
Speaker 1:So if you know, they say not, was it 95 percent of theft or 99 percent of theft opportunist? You know it is, something is presented to someone that will do something there and then, and I think that if you know, if you've got a row of five houses and you're in number three and someone's standing at the bottom of your driveway and they've been scoping it out, let's say, for a few days and the lights have come on and off, but at different times, blinds have opened and closed at different times and they may see a couple of big old CCTV cameras with the big old IR ring. They're just going to walk on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. We walked through the Cotswolds. We went for a lovely walk in the Cotswolds and next to this field was an amazing property and straight away Nicky said oh, that's a holiday let. And the giveaway was all the blinds were closed in the middle of the day. Yeah, you know, it's obviously somebody's holiday home or holiday let or whatever. And it was just. You might as well said come and break in. Not that we did, and a lovely tv.
Speaker 1:The amount of times. Yeah, I've walked up the road with the dog where we live and I've gone. Oh, you know, soon bob are away. Yeah, my wife will say how do you know that? I said. Well, the blinds halfway down the lounge and the hallway lights on at 12 o'clock in the afternoon yeah, yeah it's like they've just gone away, yeah, ah.
Speaker 1:And it's like they don't realise that it's so simple to do, especially with a system like NECO, that you're going to potentially put electrical in your house. Well, you're not going to. Potentially, you are going to be putting electrical in your house anyway.
Speaker 2:It's really really simple, but this is it. We expect it from the automotive industry. We expect lights to come on when it goes dark or when you go in a tunnel, you wipers to start when it starts raining. You expect the you know ABS to kick in when you hit the brakes too hard. These are all things standard in the automotive industry. We need to bring homes to that level. It's like going from a Nokia 6310i to an iPhone, you know.
Speaker 1:Well, you mean the battery lasted for a week and now it lasts about three hours. Well, yeah, there is that.
Speaker 2:But what it'll do for you, you know. You ask any people who've gone over, who've made that switch in the past from uh analog to to iphone, would they go back? Well, no, they wouldn't so?
Speaker 1:and also like you've got a great simulation in the ladies toilets at the back there where which is another brilliant one, whereas if you go in like now and turn the light on, yeah, it will all come on, yeah, but if you go in at three o'clock in the morning, just the accent lights will come on, so you're not blinded by light which is then resetting your casadia river to make your body think that it's now awake at three o'clock in the morning, yeah, so so there's four lighting circuits in each of the toilets, you know, to create different effects and moods, you know.
Speaker 1:So yeah so for the end, so for the end consumer, they, they can book here. Website is mosstechcouk.
Speaker 2:Yeah, mosstechcouk and homecontrolukcom. So the homecontrolukcom is our smart home NECO distribution side, but mosstechcouk is also the electrical side of the business as well, because we are NICIC approved practicing electricians and of course we do get involved in custom install work, working alongside electricians. If the electrician isn't trained or they're a bit nervous about doing certain elements of it, then we'll work with them so that they can deliver this project for their client.
Speaker 1:So, as most technical, if a client watches this um and thinks, oh, I'm doing a local job or I'm doing a job locally, is that something that you get involved in directly yourselves?
Speaker 2:as moss tech. Yeah, sometimes it depends if we've got another electric, if we've got another train installer in the area, then we can put them in touch. Um, a lot of the time in the uk, you know, of course there's, there's, they've got their own favored electrician. Might be a family member or a friend, it might be the builder's electricianian. So what we'll do is we'll do the design with the client because of course, you know, I Firmly believe that the client needs to get the most out of, you know, best value out of the installation. It doesn't have to be over complicated because, like, your washing machines got 30 different cycles and you probably use a one or two of them. Yeah, you know, but there are certain 30 different cycles and you probably use one or two of them. But there are certain enhancements to a design that doesn't cost anything but it suddenly gives extra value and so we can promote that and help promote that to the client and explain that we can produce a cable schedule for the electrician the electrician does all the cabling and what have you. But we could do an offsite panel build for them, for instance, so we can assemble the panel, ship it out to them and they just connect A to A, b to B, c to C, and then we can program and commission it. So we're working together with them and helping them, but in doing so they're then exposed to the possibilities of NECO.
Speaker 2:But then we'll offer them training as well, so that they can then take it thereafter, you know, because then they're not testing the water with both feet, they're working alongside. You know a company that um, that knows what they're doing is taking the responsibility for it and delivering it to the client, um, and and, and helping instruct them along the way. Um, so, uh, so, yeah, and, and there's a lot of installers. They'll, they'll say, do you know what? Yeah, I'm interested in training. You know, I really want to get into this industry, and now I can see a route in. So that's where I think we probably, you know, stand out a little bit.
Speaker 1:I think you're right because I mean, now I'm the grand old age of 50. My knees are hurting more and actually I've worked with a couple of installers recently who both say they've got 10 years on me, with a couple of installers recently who both say they've got 10 years on me, yeah, and actually I've now changed my way of thinking in respects of actually a little bit like that which is like well, actually hold on a second, I could design the cinema for you, we could do all of that for you, we could charge you for the drawings and but actually you do it. Or, or your electrician could wire for it, but just follow our location plans and follow our drawers, where the last 20 years I've almost been like you know, um, like my precious my, my job, yeah, you know get away.
Speaker 1:I don't want you in my room.
Speaker 2:You know I'm gonna cut all the speakers out but it doesn't have to be, it doesn't have to be rocket science, you know, and and I think that's what covid did for us, that's what lockdown did for us, that's what lockdown did for us. It forced us, it forced everyone to use that level of technology. So now it's perfectly accepted to do a design on a Teams call or a Zoom call and to support people remotely People, you know, we've got remote support software in where I can just go on a web portal and be helping a client just when they enter a code on their laptop, simple as that, as if I'm there. And we also have other installations where I can just log in remotely, no problem. And again, this is all dependent on what the client's needs are.
Speaker 2:We've done projects. A recent one that we actually won an award at the um uh, the smart building awards last year was seahorses. Now, that's a large property on the south cornwall coast which featured in the omaze prize draws, okay, uh, and, and that was, you know, four, four and a half hour drive away, but we were able to deliver that and we probably had about three or four visits to site and that was it. You know, working with the local electricians. So these things are all possible, you know, with technology we've got available to us today.
Speaker 1:So, touching on NECO, you are obviously the UK distributor for NECO and one of the reasons you obviously built the showroom here is the trailer facilities that sit behind you. Yeah, so tell us how you could help. Let's say we've got someone who's looking at nico. They want to be supplied nico products. And let's say they're up, I know, in leeds or somewhere like that, so they can buy it from you. They can come down here for training and they could buy it from you at a distributor as a installer price.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah so we don't sell to end users, we don't sell to non-trained installers, you know, because the first thing that happens then is the straight on the phone saying I need help, and when something doesn't work they blame the product when it's possibly installed incorrectly. So. So we insist on training, um the. The training is a three-day training course, um, which you'll cover everything from, uh, basic um, design of an installation, all the way up to, you know, advanced programming, conditions, time schedules and things like that. We only train two people at a time. We've got two training desks, and the reason we do that is because then we can give more personal one-on-one, one-on-two type training. And they have got their own training desk, they'll build their own panel, they'll program it so effectively, in this building we've obviously got the Niko installation that's controlling the rest of the building, the BMS and all of that side of things.
Speaker 2:There's the Niko installation for the showroom, but each training desk is its own Niko installation as well, so it's effectively like its own house. So they'll select the controls, they'll program the controls, they'll learn all about the products and how to assemble it and then also how to get best value out of it. There are certain things that you can do that. Like I say, it's sort of clever little touches that don't necessarily need to cost anything, touches that don't necessarily need to cost anything. And, like I say, a lot of installers, they've already been exposed to Niko Home Control because they've worked perhaps with us on a project that we'll meet the client at a trade show. The client will say to the electrician I really like Niko, I want you to install it. So it's client-led, client-driven, so we do B2B shows, b2c shows and things like that.
Speaker 1:And the training is CEDIA-accredited, isn't it?
Speaker 2:CEDIA-accredited training. Yeah, so they'll get CEU points, so we've got the training accredited by CEDIA, so it goes towards the CEDIA certification, and we can also host CPDs and things like that with architects as well. So it's all about brand awareness and and and awareness of the possibilities.
Speaker 1:Really, you know and do nico do, because I know, like a lot of the brands, that, like you know, uh, colin at gallo do a nice little case. Yeah, so once they've done the training and they've been an accredited installer, do they get the ability to purchase a demo case that they can show their clients? Finishes and things like that?
Speaker 2:yeah, they do, and we've had our own made specifically for the uk. Nico have obviously got them available, um, but of course, being a european brand, it's got the european sockets in and things like that and um, but it's more about the finishes rather than the actual smart element of it. So we've we've created our own training case for the uk and not training case, sorry our own sample case, demo case, uh which has got the, the switches in and it's got the digital black in it and it's got motion sensors in there as well as, so you can actually see how the buttons go on the pcbs and things like that as well.
Speaker 1:So it's quite a practical um case as well as obviously having all the finishes in it well, I think it's like if we take it back into the av world and we take it back to our friend roddy, yeah, you know to, for a client to be able to touch, you've got to be able to, yeah, and and like with the bronze here, I mean, we're doing the job at the moment which is, uh, uh, we're doing the, the tracking the metal in it and and it's saying to the client, well, we've got a bronze, then we've got a slightly darker sort of antique bronze, because you've got to show it to the client. You do, yeah, and the client wants to hold it, feel it, look at it, touch it. Do you know? Do we do you know, like the, the hug fabric, or do we do the wall fabric in?
Speaker 1:this case and I think it's more tactile. So to have that, you know those sockets to go which color do you prefer? And actually hold it up on the wall and go. Oh, I like the look of that.
Speaker 2:Helps you sell every day and we, and we've just added um a media wall in in our stand at Swindon, the National Self-Building Renovation Centre, which is just off junction 16 of the M4, and and we felt that that really needed this type of finish, so, as you can see, the hook here and we've got the fabric um, but we've, we've done that there as well so people can can go there also so, going back to the moss tech side of the business, uh, you alluded there to the, the show which you phoned me from yesterday.
Speaker 1:Yeah, fest all out, dusted your hair and all that, like um, always takes twice as long as you think it's going to take. So what do you see? Sort of like 2026 and beyond with Mostek. Obviously you've got that. You've nearly got that finished. When you leave me, you get back there and finish it off and you've obviously got the new showroom here. What do you perceive as going forward? Let's say, to 2030 and beyond, as far as you can see.
Speaker 2:There definitely needs to be an awareness of the possibilities of smart home. There's a lot of retrofit brands on the market. You know that are all wireless and you know they work, but there's a lot of DIY products and if there's an issue then they stop working together. So we're planning on really focusing on not so much the brand awareness but the possibilities of smart home and that level of integration. I'd like to contact CD. Have got the initiative to go into schools and inspire the youngsters.
Speaker 2:We have a couple of really good local colleges electrical colleges, engineering colleges so we're going to be approaching those to be able to deliver this training, this introduction, and of course, we've got the center here or the showroom here to be able to say look, this introduction. And of course, you know we've got the center here or the showroom here to be able to say look, come and have a look, come and have a play with the modules, have a go at programming, make a light, work off a switch, create a scene, create a mood, because you know a lot of youngsters they love this level of technology and it's the future. There is a real skill shortage, so, and it's the future. There is a real skill shortage, so you know, awareness of the possibilities for architects, builders, um, you know, youngsters, clients.
Speaker 1:That's our focus for the next few years now well, I think you're right in touching on in respects of I won't say the names because it will trigger everywhere, but, like the amazon a and the apple s and the google, whatever they call it these days, I think they have, think they've got the advertising budgets to really blow the market out and a lot of people think that an Amazon hub with a set of Philips Hue light bulbs, that's the best thing going, but they don't realise there is so much more that they could do and there's actually so much more that a cost-efficient, decent system will do. I've got some philips hue in my house. The other day we had that funny little power cut where it goes out for like 10 seconds, yeah, but of course what happens is all the lights come on. Yeah, now if you're on holiday and it does that, they're going to stay on until you've either got something built in to say turn off. Well, obviously, if you've got a smart home system, it just goes back on its astronomic clock to turning those circuits off to what it was before.
Speaker 1:And I think you're right in what you've done here is that I think the end user doesn't, and even some of the professionals your architects, your interior designers don't, understand what's possible. No, they don't. Our friend, one of our friends, dagesh, did the Well House in Chelsea Harbour recently. He got some. It wasn't Roddy's, but he got Roddy to perforate some suede. Yes, and all the interior designers were like sorry.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And he said well, look, we've perforated it because then it makes it acoustically transparent. Transparent, yeah, and they to be transparent, yeah, and they don't even know or understand invisible speakers like you have in here from amina, yeah. So I think that's where I know our friend owen over at cinema works.
Speaker 1:He's had architects in there, yeah, and he can sit there and say this is why we do it this way, this is why we do it that way yeah, yeah so I definitely say, from what you've I've seen here by doing the media for you, it's definitely worth popping down if you are a professional or another professional trade, like an architect, interior designer, because I think some of the stuff you've got in here is really good and we've got really nice coffee and you've got really nice coffee and pastries, and pastries which are calling out to me.
Speaker 1:But yeah yeah, this early starts coming to bite me back on the thumb. Yeah, so, yeah, I mean, obviously, we've got EI Live coming up very soon. Yes, where you're going to be there with Nico. Yeah, nico, obviously also sponsoring the Smart Building Awards as well Awards, yeah, so what would you say to any? Because this is probably going to go out just before EI Live? Yeah, yeah, we going to get just before. Yeah, so anybody in the EI community, the essential digital community, or even the Ian's, gonna kill me now so can't remember what their other magazines called, but the electrical magazine they've got coming out as well. What would you say to anybody coming on to the show to pop in and see Nico?
Speaker 2:you just have to make the time to go. You know everybody's busy, everybody. I'll have a client that says I need this finished by then and the temptation is to sort of think oh okay, maybe next year I'll go. But if they go now, come and see us. Nico, got some really cool stuff coming out now New software, upgrades and things like that. And of course you know the Smart Building Awards as well. Come have a drink with us, but, and things like that, and of course the Smart Building Awards as well. Come have a drink with us. But you've just got to talk to us. Pick the phone up thereafter and come and see us. But if you come and have a chat on the stand, we'll understand your needs, where you are at the moment, where you want to be, and whatever solution you take has to be right for you.
Speaker 1:But yeah, come on down, I think it's definitely worth. I mean, in my opinion, as a hi-fi av guy, you do tend to go to these shows. One you go to see your friends yeah, um. So you spend an hour talking to roddy yeah, um. But then you also go see the sexy stuff. You know the big speakers and all this. Sometimes I know I'm guilty of it you walk past the nice stand, you walk past the Nico stand. That's not really my thing.
Speaker 2:But you're wasting your time, then because if you're going to go and see the person that you talk to day in, day out, or week in, week out, or you go and see something that looks sexy but you're probably never going to sell, you know, in the next 12 months maybe then you know, yes, you can say you've been there, but what are you actually bringing away from that show? So, yeah, come and see us.
Speaker 1:I think a friend of mine, rob from Maven, he's every time I see him at a show. He is one of the only people I know he will go to every single stand and see every single person and I've said to him before blimey, you're busy. He said well, I'm here for the day.
Speaker 1:I might as well see everything, yeah and I think actually, yeah, go and see the brands that you don't necessarily know, because you might find something you really enjoy. Yeah, so close it up. Anything else you want to touch on before we draw to a close?
Speaker 2:you've put me on the spot now.
Speaker 1:Obviously Cost of Cancer, nicky's Charity. Obviously you've got the other charities that you sponsor. Out there You've got a kids' football team you sponsor as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's a local kiddies' football team, the Under 7s. There's a lot of people in the industry that do a lot of good for and they volunteer, and they volunteer and you know Peter Alloway, and you know.
Speaker 1:Well, we've got Together For Cinema. We've got the bike ride coming up soon.
Speaker 2:Yeah, which I'm doing. You're going to have to cut that 50 of us in Together.
Speaker 1:For Cinema. Don't worry Someone on Smart Home this morning called him Ian Kitchener.
Speaker 3:And it's like no, no, it's Ian Morris.
Speaker 1:But, yeah, we've got the charity bike ride coming up with London's Brighton Bike Ride, which again I've signed up for after the worst crab of my life last year, did you? Yeah? And then obviously you could see some of the stuff they do, because they've got some really cool little media rooms that they've put into children's hospices and things like that.
Speaker 1:And yeah, I think you're right, there are many people that you will see who are. You know, area reps for businesses, they are installers, they are integrators. You know people like, yeah, they volunteer on the side to do other stuff. It's like Peter with his football and things like that. So I think this is a brilliant industry, um, and I think, come to ei live, come and speak, um, obviously, to get in touch with you directly.
Speaker 2:Uh, website addresses, again to put you on spot uh, mostechcouk and homecontrolukcom, or they can phone the office.
Speaker 1:Excellent so no, well, look, thank you for your time, and I think it's about time we put the kettle on and went and had some pastries. Yeah, absolutely Kettle. We don't have kettles here.
Speaker 2:Oh sorry, yeah sorry. Too posh for kettles, Too posh for kettles, We've got to cook it up. Cheers buddy.
Speaker 1:Thanks for your time.
Speaker 3:Cheers mate.