What's New at Sonos - How they Reshaped Home Audio And Why Pro Installers Still Matter

Want TV sound that actually moves you and a music system your family can use without thinking? We sat down with Stephen Reed, Sonos’ UK lead for the professional channel, to unpack how those early “little white boxes” became a platform that turned private listening into shared sound. Stephen takes us behind the scenes on product evolution, the reliability mantra that installers swear by, and the control flexibility that lets clients use apps, voice, or wall panels without breaking the experience.

We explore the real-world path to great sound in normal rooms. Stephen explains why Arc Ultra delivers convincing Dolby Atmos for living spaces, how the new speech enhancement developed with hearing experts makes dialog more intelligible, and when to add subs and rears for a bigger stage. He also walks through hybrid options with AMP for those who love their vintage speakers, plus smart ways to design for lip sync, tidy installs, and incremental upgrades. If your budget lives under five figures, this is how to win big on immersion without building a dedicated cinema.

For custom installers, we get practical. We talk pro-only Sonos SKUs, where to buy for better margin, and how blended projects—AMP plus in-ceiling speakers, lighting control, and AVR integrations—turn into profitable, low-call-back jobs. Stephen addresses the app rebuild and why today’s software is more capable, then shares how control system search now ties into Sonos and how to use the web interface to remotely check a client system. The punchline: most failures aren’t speakers, they’re networks—so plan Wi‑Fi like it matters.

There’s more: a YouTube-only holiday giveaway, a nod to what’s coming at ISE Barcelona, and clear advice for homeowners and pros. Keep systems updated. Treat the soundbar as a serious music speaker. And if you’re in CI, say hello at trade shows—partnerships make projects better. If this conversation helped, follow the show, share it with a friend, and leave a quick review so more people can find it.

Chapters

• 0:00 YouTube Giveaway Instructions
• 1:02 Home Cinema Alliance Sponsor Message
• 1:31 At Habitech: Setting The Scene
• 1:54 Stephen Reed’s Background And Role
• 3:55 Early Sonos And The Streaming Bet
• 7:15 From Boxes To Multi‑Room Culture
• 10:55 Why “It Just Works” Matters
• 13:40 Control Options: Apps, Voice, Panels
• 16:10 Hardware Evolution And Voice Control
• 20:05 Sound Quality, Parties, And Product Lines
• 24:15 Upgrades, Legacy Gear, And S1 vs New App
• 27:15 Trade‑In, AMP, And AVR Integrations
• 30:10 Sonos Architectural And Speaker Strategy
• 33:10 Arc, Beam, Atmos, And TV Fit
• 37:15 Budget Tiers And Real‑World Rooms
• 41:30 CI Value: Margins, Blended Deals, Distributors
• 46:00 Search On Control Systems And APIs
• 49:00 Reliability, Upsell Paths, And Service
• 52:30 Meet The Sonos Pro Channel Where You Are
• 55:10 App Backlash, Fixes, And New Leadership
• 59:30 Teases For Barcelona And Pro Roadmap
• 1:03:30 Playbar Memories And Design Details
• 1:06:00 Final CI Advice And Consumer Tips
• 1:09:30 Remote Checks, Support, And Networking
• 1:14:00 Personal Side: Cooking, Wine, And Films

Transcript

SPEAKER_02: 0:04

You've been kind enough to put up a little Christmas present for our viewers and well for our viewers mainly because it's it's gonna be if you're listening to this on audio, it's gonna involve interaction with YouTube, unfortunately, because I can't do this on an audio podcast platform. If you look in the description of this video, we'll tell you what to do. We're gonna hide a couple of numbers around us somehow in post-editing, and then click on the link in the description, put your details in so we can contact you. Not on YouTube but on the link.

SPEAKER_01: 0:33

We will always be multi-channel, we always will be, that's who we are. Um but you will find more toys come down the line that you can't buy on our website, you can't buy and retail them. And then we may or may not have something in Barcelona for you all to come and see in February next year.

SPEAKER_00: 0:50

Thinking of building your dream home cinema? Don't know where to start? Start with the HCA. At the Home Cinema Alliance, we connect homeowners with the very best in the business. Our members are trusted designers, installers, and technology experts who know how to turn any room into a breathtaking cinematic experience. Whether you're building from scratch or converting a spare room, our members are here to help you every step of the way. Visit our website to find your local member at homesinamareliance.co.uk.

SPEAKER_02: 1:31

So we are at Habitech in their stunning showroom here in Basingstoke. Um a little bit of a drive for both of us, but uh you deal with Habitech. Um I've actually not been here before, so it's a bit of a uh HCA shirt on today for the interview with you, and then the immersive shirt on later when I speak to Dan about the solutions and bits and pieces they have on offer here. So, for people who are watching this as a consumer, for people who are watching this who not don't know who Sonos are but have not had the pleasure of meeting you, um, tell us a little bit about Stephen and a little about uh your history in the industry and how you came to work for Sonos.

SPEAKER_01: 2:12

Okay. Um I'm Stephen Reed. Um, my current job title is I'm the Sonos for Professionals lead for the United Kingdom, which means that I do anything to do with installers, electricians, etc. etc. Um, I've been with Sonos now for 16 years. Um, and I started when it was all little white boxes, all installers, no real retail. Um, and then over the years, we've produced so many new products, so many award-winning products over the years, which has grown our channel strategies over retail. We have a D2C business, um, but the installer side of our business is still a very important part of our business.

SPEAKER_02: 2:54

So before you started at Sonos, 16 years ago, I can't believe that's 16 years ago. I for some reason I only thought you were relatively recent, not like nearly the age of the company. Um, so when you before you went to Sonos, you were with being OSU?

SPEAKER_01: 3:08

I was. I was at Bang Olsen, I was at Bang Olson for 12 years, something like that. Um I was recruited by them from my previous career in the ladies' shoe trade. Oh, okay, that's a bit of a jump. How'd you go from one to the other? They were looking for people who had luxury brand uh experience. I only ever worked in the luxury brand part of the shoe industry, um, and that's how I ended up running the very first franchise store in Marlow. Um and that was a concept, um, and then I moved in various roles with BO until we parted company uh 20 years ago, 20 uh 22 years ago, something like whatever it was. Um then I went into Hotel A V for a little while and then Sonos approached me. Um and that was an interesting time um because uh the that the audio streaming didn't really exist in those days. That was 2009. Exactly, precisely Sonos was about 2006, wasn't it? Exactly, exactly. Um, and it was all about you know, Spotify. I wasn't a Spotify user, I was a CD user. Um, and very quickly I collated on that this was a very clever system, a very clever system, as so many did at the time, um, and it was so new. Um, and you have to remember that when the Sonos started, um it was all about streaming music from the internet. And the only music that was on the internet was an illegal system. It was an illegal, an abster. Um it's became it became legal, but at the time so when the founders of the company were going around the world, which was the idea originally, was have a little box that you plug into your Bangaloson, your Sony, your Philips, your blah blah blah blah, and it would stream music from the internet. And of course, all these manufacturers went, You're mad. So it was almost like the port now. Kind of, yes, but not even as big as a port. It was literally like a you could almost say it was like a memory spec, a USB stick, I suppose, that kind of thing. And that was what they went around the world, and they were like, No, CD's CD is music, that it's always gonna be on a CD, it's never gonna be different to that. Little did they know. Um, and so they they then went back to California where we're from and they went, we know this is gonna work. And that's when they made the very first ZP100, and the history goes back, and da da da, etc. And that's where that's where it came from. And then they were lucky to a certain extent that the Spotify's of this world and then the diesers and then titles and the cue buzzes and all the rest of it suddenly came along with legal streaming music. If we hadn't had that, we probably wouldn't have survived.

SPEAKER_02: 5:44

It's funny because it's it's like I'm trying to I'm racking my brains now, trying to remember what it is. But I remember I'm listening to something the other day which was almost exactly the same as the the classic Steve Jobs, where Steve Jobs was famous. I think he went to Sony with the idea for iTunes, and Sony basically just turned around and went, No, we're people are gonna listen on a tape or a Walkman, and then he went, Well, okay, we'll do it ourselves. And then I say I was watching something the other day, which uh I'll exert it here, I can't remember what it was now, but it was exactly the same thing. A small startup went to a massive company and went, Do we this is what we're thinking? And they went, it's never gonna work. So then basically they started to do it themselves. Yeah, so I suppose, yeah, the timing of that sort of like the iTunes and the Spotify were.

SPEAKER_01: 6:33

It was you sort of had iPods existed, so the iPods um uh um with horrible things in your ears, um uh that that was existing at the time, and so it started to come down the road, and there were lots of other manufacturers that were playing in the space, but nobody had come up with this completely wireless situation. This this ability to get it from your internet onto a speaker and just play it without any wires, without anything connecting it together. That was what was new about it. Uh so even though it was white boxes, ZP100s and then ZP90s and ZP120s, I've probably still got a couple of them in the old 80s, yeah. Um, and uh uh you know that they were designed to be connected to speakers, but that was because most homes had speakers. So this was a matter of getting your hi-fi speakers and making them into a sonosystem. Um in fact, our first bundle was exactly that. It was a ZP100 white box with a pair of reband rebranded white speakers. I remember that. Um the BU20 bundle. Yeah, didn't the speakers had sonos on them, yeah, right? Yes, but they weren't sonos speakers, of course. But I won't tell you who they were. But they they that was what we started off because that was what existed. There wasn't any, they they didn't hadn't even thought about making all-in-one products. Um that was what existed in the world, and it was a very interesting time to be um involved in. Um, and little did I know when I joined them that I would be here 16 years later. Um and uh I've had various roles with the company, uh, but I've always had an interest in this side of the business, this installer side of the business, it's always been where my interest lies with it. And has your your role in SONOS always been this CI? No, no, no, no. When I was first brought in, um I was brought in to grow independent retail. Okay. Um that was what my my remit was um to open an independent retail. Of course, in those days we didn't have any retail products, um, so that was interesting. Um, and I can remember, you know, I can remember a day where one of the businesses um had placed an order for 80 units, and that doubled our sales for the week. We're a different world today, but that was what it was like back in those days, um, because you only had these sort of three, four main products. Um it was only when we then launched really play three and then play one and da-da-da-da-da-t that we then started to see these explosive sales of our product. But that was because mixture of things, having a product you could just plug in, it would stream all your music you wanted on it, the streaming services were live and people were quite comfortable with paying their£10 a month or whatever it was for the streaming services. Um, but back in the day it was very different, really, really different. To try and get those products into retailers was really, really different. Whereas installers were grabbing them like nobody, nobody because it works.

SPEAKER_02: 9:34

My sort of opinion of Sonos has always been that it works. I mean, we joked earlier was like for part of me half the time was forget about whatever your feelings are about the brand, whether you're a consumer, whether you're a CI or whoever, and a competitor. It's almost like Sonos, it works because it does.

SPEAKER_01: 9:53

It it does. I mean, obviously, it's technology. It's technology, and that's it. It's a technology, it works with electricity, so it it everything needs power. Um, but whether it even if our portable products you need to charge them, they all need power.

SPEAKER_02: 10:05

What do you mean Wi-Fi doesn't need Wi-Fi? Wireless isn't wireless, yeah. Wireless is not wireless.

SPEAKER_01: 10:10

You know, it's a bit like internet isn't Wi-Fi. It makes for a very complicated world, however, we tend to make it very simple. Um, and when installers do get behind us, this for the same reasons. We're reliable, it works, clients can use us, clients operate us. We don't really mind whether you use our app or you direct play to us or any other way of using us, whether you're using Lutron switches, um Reiko lighting switches, any other form of control panels to control us. We we're not really fussed about that. As long as you're using us, we don't mind how you use us. Yes, we think our app is the best, but it doesn't have to be the app that controls the solar system. Um you can use a control four panel or an RTI panel or a URC panel or a nice panel, um, or you can use light switches. There's a myriad of ways of controlling us.

SPEAKER_02: 11:04

So you say it going back to the ZP120s, ZP90s. Um I still have a font for the I remember that it's not the CR100 was the one. CR200 with the wheel. You could drop it above. Um so that was always quite cool because you had the sort of iPod style wheel on it, and then obviously you went to the standalone controller, which I would imagine some of them. I mean, I I was I was completely uh looking at doing something the other day to do with a control system. Yes, yeah, and I went on to eBay to think, I wonder if you could still buy like a Logitech Harmony, a Philips Pronto. Yep, you could still buy a fully working Philips Pronto. And and there's a conversation that I had a few weeks ago with Stuart Tickle at AWE, was like we were discussing about when Philips pulled the plug on Pronto, but they're still working, just like a ZP 120 with it.

SPEAKER_01: 11:57

It was those products that made our it was those products that one of our founders had been trying to do what our system does today. So he'd been trying to use some of these products in his home back in California and and saying, I can't make it do what I want to do. I want to have it all over the place. I want to do it, they can't do that, and that's why he then had this bright moment, or one of his colleagues did, they'd owned a company before, who said, But we've written software to do that, yeah, and then they all threw money at it and blah blah blah blah.

SPEAKER_02: 12:23

So I think that was what's quite nice because actually you say that. I never knew that. That's quite interesting because you look at like um Alex from Josh AI, same sort of thing. Yes. You look at Arno, uh Trinov, same sort of thing. It's it's it's founders that sort of go, Joe, why is it not working how I want it to work? Yeah. And then they go, Well, I'm surely I could do this. Yeah. And then fast forward. Yes. Um, and you then you have-I mean, I've always I've always said with Sonus, Sonos are the the hoover of multiram audio. You know, people come up to me uh and go, I want Sonos. And you'll go, Okay, well, look, there's nothing wrong with Sonus. Um, we are a Sonos installer, but tell me a bit more about you. What you need because people refer to I'm gonna Hoover this afternoon. No, not using a dice. Is that for me, I think, you know, they are the hoover of the um of the you know, multi-room audio. Well they really invented, not invented, but mainstreamed multi-room audio.

SPEAKER_01: 13:24

I think I think we say that, you know, we what we were all about and what we are all about is listening to music out loud um and missing listening to music wherever you want to listen to music, all over your home, whether you're in your living room, whether you're in your kitchen, whether you're in your bedroom, whether you're on the in your yard, in your patio, you know, music is life. And we've done lots of scientific research on this. We know that having music playing is is better in every single way. You know, food tastes better, life is better, people laugh more, people talk to each other more. Um, and so we know that music is key to that. Um, and when you think about it back in the day, everybody would have some sort of stack system with a turntable and a couple of tapes in it, and a CD player and big black Japanese boxes, um, and that's where they got their music from. And then all of a sudden we came along, and that had died because of the MP3 player, because of the iPod.

SPEAKER_03: 14:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 14:16

So all of a sudden nobody was listening to music out loud again. So parents didn't know, couldn't complain about their kids' music because they couldn't hear it. Um, and so therefore, we were like, no, no, no, no. It's all about shared experience. You have to share the experience, and that's where we've we've really and we we changed the way people listen to music. I guess we've got competition today, but there was no competition back in the day because we were trying to change how people listen to music, um, and we achieved that. Um, but it it it it it wasn't an easy sell in the first instance because you either had people who know I still want to use my stack system, or you had the other generation that were, no, no, no, no, I want to listen through this little metal box and have it in my ears, and we had to change the way they thought about listening to music.

SPEAKER_02: 15:00

It's funny because like I'm getting flashbacks now because going back to the bundle. I'm pretty sure when me and my wife uh lived in Winchelsea, near not million miles where we live now. I can remember coming home with the bundle. I think I bought it from All Trade, yeah, because they was were back in my Sony days, and I learned got to know the guys at All Trade quite well in Brighton. And I remember sitting there with the 200, and my wife was like, What anything? And I'm like, Yeah, go on, name something. And she'd go like Michael Jackson. I'm like, Yep. And then she'd be like, okay. Alright, I've got Bruce Hornsby. Yep. And it'll be like, she went, and I don't think in I mean, it's before we had our daughter, but I don't think in a good hour and a half of sitting there, have one of we ever listened to so much music together as a couple in our 20 years' marriage, yeah, but also I couldn't I couldn't find anything that, or she couldn't suggest anything that we couldn't find.

SPEAKER_01: 15:58

No, exactly that. And it's parties, you know, when we have parties and people go, Have you got XYZ? Yes, I have. No, okay, that's streaming. That's not us per se, it's the streaming services that allow you to do that, but it then it's how good it sounds or how you've got it playing in your home that makes the difference. And whether you're using an AMP driving a pair of sonos by Sonna and Insignia speakers or many other branded Insignia speakers, or whether you are using our all-in-one era 100s, era 300s, 5s, etc., the sound has got to be right. It's no point just having a perfect system that can do it, it has to sound right at the same time. Um, and we we have a very unique way of doing that.

SPEAKER_02: 16:39

Well, I think you know, you go back to similar era, really. I remember looking at an OPA system or a system line system, which was of iPod docking in the wall, it was wires. And as you say, I think, you know, with the wireless side of Sonos, going back to when it was the ZP90s, ZP120s, the 120 was the amp, wasn't it? No, Z yeah, 120 was the AMP and the ZP90 was the port. Was the port, yeah. So I remember doing many installs with the ZP120, you know, and basically that would be on floor standings or ceiling speakers. And we were not, we the maybe the system was still there because you weren't going to rip out an OPA system, but clients were just like, So do you mean I can party? Yeah, so you know, you can party together, this is how you do it, and I think that's really when so going back then, that was really was the catalyst of the first few products.

SPEAKER_01: 17:31

It was, no, it really was, and it it's what it's what you know. Uh after after we said, I worked for them for two years, um, it's what kept me involved, it's what what drove me to stay with them. Um, because you know, we've we are very open as a company, I know what's coming five years from now. Yeah, you know, and that almost is why that's why that's almost why I stay because you see this stuff that's coming down the line, you think, well, I want to be here when that comes. Um, and you know that that was what we thought when we launched the first play bar, you know. So was the play bar before the play five, or yeah. So so it came, so you had S5, which became play five, yeah, uh, the one that sort of sat on a little foot, as per se, and then we had uh play three, which we don't talk about for some reason, but play three, then we had play one, then we had sub, yeah, and then we had play bar.

SPEAKER_02: 18:24

Okay, I've still got a play bar. Come come to my warehouse in uh my warehouse stroke gym, still up there playing out my music.

SPEAKER_01: 18:37

It you know, when you put it up against an arc, it looks dated, but it's there's nothing wrong with it, it still works, they still sound amazing. Um and uh much to Sonic's detriment, you know, for for I mean obviously you do an up, you do an upgrade program.

SPEAKER_02: 18:50

We do do an upgrade program because they, you know, like my play bar, it it still works.

SPEAKER_01: 18:54

Yeah, no, it is, it is, it is. It's it to a certain extent, that's frustrating to a certain extent because I know how good, say, an arc ultra is, but why would a client who's got an arc want to upgrade to an arc ultra? Well, they have to hear it, you know, but then you have to be accepted that. You know, if somebody's got a play bar, they may not want to change it to an arc or an arc ultra because well, no, I pay that for that then. Um so we will do everything we can to try and coerce them into the new products, but no, not everybody's gonna do that because if it works, it works. And there's no need to change it. We know today there are still many, many, many, many homes that have lovely little white boxes in their racks under the stairs driving all their home.

SPEAKER_03: 19:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 19:34

And there's really no reason for them to change. Yes, a ZP120 is only a 50-watt D-class amplifier, whereas AMP is a 125-watt amplifier. There's a massive difference between what an AMP can do and an old ZP120 can do, but but if the client's happy with that system, why should we try and change it? And there's lots of updates going that will help those older systems work better than they do today.

SPEAKER_02: 19:59

So you'll have no compatibility issues between if you had an AMP and a ZP120?

SPEAKER_01: 20:05

You would. Well, no, to a certain extent you could have, because you can have an AMP, you can have an AMP and a ZP120 in a rack all on the original software. Okay. And that means that it will stay as it is, it will get security updates, it will get some little updates coming to it, but it will never, you'd never be able to have a ZP120 in a rack and an arc ultra on your TV. They're two different systems. Because the ZP120 won't do S2. Precise, it won't do S2. We don't talk about S2 and S1 anymore, but you're right, absolutely that. So S1S2, which has now evolved into the current app, um uh means that anything that is new works beautifully together. Okay. Um anything that is a bit older works beautifully together, but can't work with the new stuff.

SPEAKER_02: 20:44

Okay.

SPEAKER_01: 20:44

Um and that's why we offer the upgrade program to try and get people across the new stuff. But if it works, it works. And there's no there's no real reason for them to change it unless they want better sound quality or they want to have those new toys. They want to have the headphones or whatever else we may have coming down the line.

SPEAKER_02: 20:59

Well, it's like I went, I literally was at a client's house the other day. I mean, it wasn't an upgrade, uh, unfortunately, because they first customer I've ever turned around to and said, Oh, you're moving, where are you moving to? And they went South Korea.

unknown: 21:10

Okay.

SPEAKER_02: 21:11

They own a travel, they own a travel company and they specialise in travel out in China and South Korea. So it was I've never had that in 20 odd years of business industry.

SPEAKER_01: 21:21

That's a unique situation.

SPEAKER_02: 21:22

But I I can't remember why now, but I said to him, Well, let me let's get into your Sonos account for me to check something. So we logged into his Sonos account, and then yeah, it basically came up saying you've got three ZP120s, and this is how much we're gonna give you if you trade in today for an amp.

SPEAKER_03: 21:38

Yep.

SPEAKER_02: 21:38

So if we go if we go forward to today, uh I won't get you to reel all the products off, nope, but um obviously you've got so for the ZP120 replacement, you've got an amp, which is a brilliant product. And my my sort of AV pawn, I'm gonna struck for saying pawn, aren't I? My AV pawn, which was like just beautifully in a rack, you know, like 14 zones of sonnets. Hopefully labelled on the front.

SPEAKER_01: 22:05

But no, I mean I think um oh no, no, no, labelled on the back. No, no, no, no, no. My OCD kind of hand are labeled on the front. The client goes, yeah, but it's not anyway, um uh yes, and um the and and an AMP has just been uh put into the Cedio Hall of Fame in Denver. It was it was whatever they say, put into the Hall of Fame as a unique, as a as an award-winning product. It is getting a bit old today, um, but it still works. And installers often say, I want a new one. What do you want it? You know, do you want it more powerful? No. Well, do you want it what else do you want it to do? Um, so so it's a matter of when we do launch new products, they're always extremes, they always leap. So the difference between a connect amp and an amp is very different. It does so many things, it's TV, TV compatible, it's it has TV compatibility with an HDMI socket, it has 125 watts, you can plug turntables into it, you can do all sorts of things to it. Whereas a ZP20, even though a lot of ZP20s were connected to TV, they had no lip sync. So whenever you put a ZP20 in a TV, there was no lip sync. As much as you think you could, you can't. Um, whereas an AMP could go. So that was where AMP, so that that we have AMP and we have port, which is our not amped, amped. Yeah, so well a port, a port, if you imagine a port being exactly what a port is, it's it's where boats come in and out. So if a boat comes into port, it can either offload its cargo, i.e., put Sonos into something, or it's taking something into the boat, i.e., it's a turntable coming into Sonos, or it's a CD player coming into Sonos. And so that's what a port does. It does that sway, sway, sway. Um, and it's got a really good DAC in it, uh, and it has got a 12 volt trigger in it, so it will turn other things on. Okay. And we do work with other AVR products. We work with Sony and Integra. Integra. I remember seeing I did Integra last year, and I remember it's just works within it. Yeah, so there are there are there are many, many AVRs that can be integrated with Sonos um with a with a built-in integration using our API. Um, and that's that's what we call our our architectural world. And then, of course, we do make Sonos by Sonant speakers, and they are Sonos speakers. They're not Sonance rebranded as Sonos, they are Sonos speakers manufactured by Sonant's. Okay. Um, so we do do a six and a half inch and eight.

SPEAKER_02: 24:24

So it's not some guy at the back just peeling.

SPEAKER_01: 24:27

It is not, it is not a whatever the Sonance ZP, whatever their coding are, it's an it's not that. Um, and we do a six and a half and eight inch and in ward and outdoor speaker, and then we move into all in ones, and then we do home theatre and we do portable. So there are categories that we work in.

SPEAKER_02: 24:43

So you literally, I mean, I was just saying to you before we started, you know, I had a one of my neighbours, um, a retired couple. What type of system are we looking for? Oh, we know we want to update the TV and get decent sound on it because we're going a bit deaf. Um uh Margot, if you're watching this, I didn't say that. Um and um and then I want something in the kitchen, but it's gotta work with uh an Amazon A, I'm not gonna say the word. Um and it was like a sonos because I know that we did a I think they went from a 22-inch Sony to a 42-inch LG. I mean it was like and then when she came around my house, sort of 77, she's like, how can you sit in front of that? But we did a we did a 42-inch TV with uh beam. Yeah, um and then in the kitchen we did um we did uh I can't think it was now, we did the current version of the Play 5. Um with five. No, with a five, yeah, with um uh uh say a little A dot, and she could just walk in there and say, you know, play Apple classical music. And for her, it just worked. Yes, you know, and then I took her through the app because we sold her an iPad as well. I took her through the app, and and what's great is apart from waving at her when I ought a dog, I haven't spoken to her since. So it obviously works.

SPEAKER_01: 25:57

It works, yes, it does. Um and I think that you know, voice was voice was a big moment for us, yeah. Um, because you know, there we were, you know, doing really well with some really good numbers, selling all our products, everybody happy, and then along came voice. Um, and as a company, we didn't see that coming. Um, but within a year we had voice on our systems, so you can use all the voice control systems on most of our products. You can't on five because it has no microphone in it. Uh, but all our latest all-in-one products have microphones in them, so you can voice control all our systems, right? Either using the A word or using the Sonos word. Um and the Sonos voice is a very, very good way of operating our system if you are security aware or you don't like the fact that you think you think the voices can listen into you. Sonos is a closed system, so so if you use Sonos voice control, there is no cloud. It's all on the speaker.

SPEAKER_02: 26:52

Because I'm not a fan of A, because I mean I usually tend to use S and not G. It's becoming a crypto. I'm gonna put loads of little splashes up, aren't I?

SPEAKER_01: 27:01

Um because uh I just I'm not I'm not happy with the privacy policies of A and it it's a you know if if if if you use Sonos voice on our product, it's closed, it can't listen in. And way of of testing that is if you do have a branded puck and you put it into mute, it glows red. It's still got power, it's still on, it's still listening.

SPEAKER_03: 27:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 27:27

If you use Sonos voice and you don't want the microphone on, you turn the microphone off, that kills the power to the mic. The mic light goes off, there's no power, it cannot listen in. It cannot listen in. Only when you turn the microphone back on will it start listening again. Um but but we really only want you to play music on us. So why would we want to know anything else? You know, what's embarrassing about saying that you like Barry Manlow, you know, whatever it may be. Um funny enough, I saw him on the news this morning. So so but these are all the elements that that we we now have within our system that if you think about it, um you can voice control a ZP120 using a puck. Now, when ZP120, which effectively is a or a connect amp, which is a ZP120, there was no way that anybody when that product was manufactured thought there was going to be voice control ever. No. But you can voice control that product, yes, using a third-party device to do that.

SPEAKER_02: 28:26

Okay.

SPEAKER_01: 28:26

Um, or if you had a home that did have a uh a one in it, which was the first product we ever made with voice control in it. If you had a one in a system and you had a rack with Z with connect amps in the system, you could tell that speaker to play music on whatever was being driven by that amp. Now that amp was made in a world where it didn't come. And that's a bit like why do we have a controller then and we don't have a controller now? Well, because we launched a free app. Um, so it was either we'd spend millions of dollars developing another controller, or we just put it all on an app and make it free.

SPEAKER_02: 29:03

Which the money that you've invested into not into hardware, into hardware.

SPEAKER_01: 29:09

Exactly. And so, so therefore, um uh and even when when the when the the person who said we're gonna do an app and we're gonna make it free, you can imagine that conversation in the boardroom. But if we hadn't done that, again, we wouldn't have become the company we are today. Um and and you know, and to a certain extent, we I suppose we've hurt other companies because they go, we're gonna charge for this. Well, they don't. So so therefore, and and it's a way of us being able to update the system. You know, I happen to drive an American electric car and it updates all the time. Yeah. Um, and being and so I get used to that world where things just update all the time, um, and our product updates all the time. We've just done an update for Arc Ultra. Um, so we worked with the Royal National Institute for the Deaf of how hard it is for people with hearing loss to hear TV. TV to the extent they don't watch TV anymore. So we worked with AI technology with our Arc Ultra and with the Royal Institute for the Deaf to work on a way of making a soundbar increase the voices, increase the level of voice. So you've always had that nighttime mode and voice mode on Ars products. If you hit the voice on our on our app now, it gives you options. So you can have low to high.

SPEAKER_03: 30:26

Okay.

SPEAKER_01: 30:27

And I've seen video where it's put on high and somebody literally takes their hearing aid out of their hair, their ear and they can hear the TV. It's unbelievable. Unbelievable. That's a free update. We don't charge for that. That's a free update that makes it possible for something, somebody to watch TV when they couldn't watch TV anymore because they couldn't hear it.

SPEAKER_02: 30:48

So not like the old boy that I remember doing back in the day for Sony, who's probably no longer with us, who was he bought a 5.1 surround sound system from Sony with a new TV and I went to install it. And he said, the guys in the shop said it could do multi-channel. I said, Well, yeah, so every speaker says, How do you do that? And I'm like, Well, what you do is you press this button. Why? He said, I can hear it at the moment, but both me and the wife are going deaf, and we're what we're thinking is we have surround right and surround left, and then we can do multi-channel. So literally, and I'm sitting there going, but the guy's face is gonna be there and his voice is gonna be there.

SPEAKER_01: 31:24

There's a lot of there's a lot of misconceptions around uh surround sound or home cinema systems, um, particularly the sonnet home cinema system, you know. A lot of people say that, oh, but I can't hear the rears. Yeah, you're watching the news. Oh god, yes. You know, um, or I can't do this, well, yeah, because you're not watching something that's got surround sound.

SPEAKER_02: 31:43

If I had a pound for every time I got a phone call from with that exact question, I'm watching Southeast News today, yeah, and I can't hear it in the rears. Well, you can not even in HD, my friends. So while it's in SD and you're nice to HD TV. Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 31:58

Yes, you know, exactly that, exactly that. Um, and you know, and and and it's it's getting technology to work together. You know, some TVs are better than others. Um, you know, we work better with some TVs than some other TVs, I won't say brands at the moment, but we, you know, because of the way they manufacture their TVs and both the way that they pass through Dolby Atmos, for example. Um, you know, they're they're very good. Some are very good at passing through Dolby Atmos, others are not so good. I mean, I think for today, if you buy a new TV today, most of them will pass through Dolby Atmos. Oh, you mean Panasonic had was a big problem. Yeah, it was. That's my view, not so much. I I went from Panasonic to another brand because at the time Panasonic TVs couldn't do Dolby Atmos. And I had my first arc, which is Dolby Atmos. This is insane. I've got a product that doesn't wear us, but I've got a TV. So I then changed to a different brand that did pass through Dolby Atmos. Panasonic does now pass through. But but you know, these things are are important for clients and customers to understand. You know, if you haven't got the latest TV, don't buy the latest soundbar. Because, well, you can, but you won't get the benefit of the soundbar. You won't get all the way. You won't get the Dolby Atmos. And believe you me, when you hear Dolby Atmos, it's amazing. It really is amazing. Uh, yes, if you have a a lovely home cinema and you've got a big budget to spend tens of thousands of pounds on a proper home cinema, of course, that's what you should do. However, if you haven't got those budgets, you've just got a living room and you want to have a decent surround sound system, ours is pretty decent to say the least. Um, and it does give you phenomenal Dolby Atmos um sound, either with an arc ultra on its own or whether you add subs and rear speakers to get the whole the whole experience.

SPEAKER_02: 33:37

Well, I think I think I'm, I mean, if if you've anybody's watched any of the previous parts, like especially the ones I sit down with Simon Gregory and have a conversation about, I think both of us, and I think you know, a lot of people say, Yeah, you know, oh, you can't get Dolby Atmos from a sound bar. And it's like, well, if you've got 50 to 100,000, 25,000, and you're gonna build a room like we're in now or like we've got next door, then yeah, you're not gonna use a sound bar.

SPEAKER_03: 34:00

Yes.

SPEAKER_02: 34:00

But I I am a big fan of putting like Dolby Atmos into uh sound bars because it makes the client aware.

SPEAKER_01: 34:09

Precisely, it's a it's a matter of awareness, and and you know, there are there are clients that have got there are more clients that have smaller budgets than there are other clients that have large budgets who still want good sound, and they still want good sound, you know. There's the it's the under 10,000 pound bracket, it's the under 10,000 pounds where I want a 65-75-inch screen, I want decent surround sound, um, and maybe I want to be able to light control. You know, you can do that for around£10,000, or you can do it for£100,000. If and if a client's got that budget, cool, go for it. But but understand the client at the end of the day, um, and don't make clients get frightened by what you're offering them.

SPEAKER_02: 34:47

Well, I always remember, I always remember going to an event in Dolby in Soho, and I think it was with Sony, and they had this table, and it was an old it was like their first ultra short throw, which funnily enough, I don't think they make one now, but it was an ultra short throw projector with a soundbar built into it, and it's like and I remember talking to Stuart Tickle from AWE and saying, I don't get it. Well, who's it for? Um, and and he said, It's for the person that rents a penthouse because it was 25 grand. It's for the person that rents a penthouse in central London that may be from America, and he buys it, he beams it on the wall, it's a 4K image, and then when he moves, he puts it in a crate and he moves it to his next flat. Yes. Um, and I think you're right, you know, there we have many clients that we do sonas for because it is that case. They want a 77-inch TV, they want a good sound system, or they might not even have the money to do it straight away. They can upgrade over time, but they then they haven't got the budget to spend 30, 40 plus on the home. Excellent.

SPEAKER_01: 35:48

If they're in their first home or even their second home, you know, they're not gonna have, they're probably not gonna have the space to put, you know, they're gonna have the basement or the loft or the shed at the end of the garden, the room at the end of the garden to do something with. They live in a more conventional home. There's a limit to what they can do. Yes, as they as they get older and their their lives expand and they end up in big houses, it becomes very different. But of course, that's not everybody anyway. Um that not everybody gets to that that sort of pocket of cash. Um, and you know, now you've got projectors that have HGMI connector connectivity. So now you can have a projector, you could have a high sense short throw projector, and you can have a sonor surround sound system. You don't have to have a TV, you can have a projector and do the same thing. And you don't have to use the speaker that's built into the Precisely, precisely. And you know, that's why people like high sense want to work with us. And that's why other man's want to work with us, because um, you know, Sony is a very good worker with Sonor's partner, and you think, well, they make their own audio, but they know that we sound really good. So they want to work with us because we sound really, really good. Yes, they make well, our our sound bars were a thousand pounds. They well arc is a thousand pounds. They they make speakers for free. You know, you can get it free when you buy a TV. Now that's going to be a very different sounding system, it's gonna be better than a TV, because TV's as thin as a pancake, you can't make it sound decent. But it's understand the client's budget at the end of the day. We make Ray for the kids' bedrooms, we make Beam, as you said, for those smaller TVs, the 42 inches, which does do Dolby Atmos in a software way, and then we have Arc Ultra, which does have whatever it's got now, 16 drivers in it.

SPEAKER_02: 37:27

So you still do ARC and then Arc Ultra. We don't do Arc anymore.

SPEAKER_01: 37:30

There's a few ARCs left in the marketplace, but Arc Ultra is now coming up to a year old nearly I was about to ask what's the difference. The difference is the new version of the U.S. Arc Ultra does have a subwoofer built into it. Okay. So Arc Ultra uses a bit of technology that means we can get a subwoofer that's about that big inside an ARC, so it doesn't need a sub. And then it has, I think total it has 16 drivers, you know, upward firing, left, right firing, Blobby Atmos firing. Um and then if you add subs, one or two subs, it's still gonna be a 9.1. It's sub, 9.1, so it's using the subs, one, two subs, and it's built-in sub. And then if you go rears, it's still gonna be 9.1.4. Right. Because what it then goes for, it's got nine drivers, it's got four upward firing speakers, two from the back, two from the rear, and it's got subwoofers. Um, and that's how you can build the system up. You can either have an arch ultra on its own, if the room details that, if you're in a normal living room, an arch ultra on their own is going to be fine. Bigger rooms, then you make the decision. Do you want to go the whole hog all in, or do you want to add the subs, or do you want to add the rears and then the subs or the subs and then the rears? But that's the whole advantage of the sonos. You can go for it. Yeah, exactly. It's not like uh it's not like an all-in-one box box of the. Or you could have an amp connected to a TV driving a pair of towers or ceiling speakers, and another amp driving the rear speakers. You're only going to get 4.0 and a subwoofer 4.1, but you're still going to get some form of surround sound, not true surround sound, but you're going to get rear and front and rear sound. Um, so there are options depending on what the client wants. If he's got a pair of vintage, careful B and RW speakers that he wants to drive, well, you could use an amp and still have the TV coming through them. Um or he wants to go the modern route with a big 75-inch TV that sits on the wall with an R culture underneath it. There are options that can have.

SPEAKER_02: 39:30

So before we get on to like home, the Home Cinema Alliance and CI and everything like that, we've just talked about the brands. Yep. Um, you've been kind enough to put up a little Christmas present for our viewers and well, for our viewers mainly, because it's it's gonna be if you're listening to this on audio, it's gonna involve interaction with YouTube, unfortunately, because I can't do this on an audio podcast platform. Um, but Sonnets are gonna give away a little Christmas present. Yes, we will. Beer in it is currently October. Yeah. By the time this goes up, it's probably bordering on November. So um, what I will do is have a conversation with Stephen about what we're gonna give away. Um, and I will put that on the screen now, or I will hold that in my hands now, but it'll be a nice little Sonic's Christmas present. Um, if you look in the description of this video, we'll tell you what to do. I'm gonna hide a couple of numbers around us somehow in post-editing, uh, like a little pin number. It's not Stephen's card pin number or how you drive his car or get it to his house or anything like that. It's not the last four digits of his credit card or anything like that. I'm gonna put four numbers in the video around us. It could be here, it could be here, it could be there. And then click on the link in the description, um, put your details in so we can contact you, not on YouTube, but on the link. Uh, and then yeah, hopefully uh we'll give you something. We'll close it maybe a week or two before Christmas. Um, so we could try and get it to you before Christmas, but we're not promising anything because of post-digital that should be able to be able to none of that should be a problem. Excellent. So, well, one, thank you for that. And uh we'll we'll mention it in a podcast in the new year, the winner, and maybe get a photograph of the winner holding sync to make sure you don't think it's gone into my house in my daughter's bedroom. Um so we had a conversation Edinburgh Leeds Cedia Business Summit. You did. We sat and had a conversation with I had a conversation with Dan at Hidden Home Tech, and um he wasn't slating Sonos, but he gave his view on Sonos. Um and I remember coming up to you and saying, look, there's a podcast coming out next week. Um, it's not my opinion, it's not the HCA's opinion, it's not a HCA members' opinion, it's Dan's opinion. Yes, I'm talking about you, Dan. Um so going into CI, because obviously we are the Home Cinema Alliance, and a lot of people watching this might go, Oh, I don't do Sonos, they don't support CI, there's no margin in the product. How can Sonus benefit the custom installation industry um and uh help them utilize the product, you know, make margin and you know, and put these awesome products in people's homes?

SPEAKER_01: 42:10

I th that's a very, very good point. And we're not perfect. Uh however, um, if you actually interact with us, um, so you buy from one of our selected distributors, and we are selectedly distributed in the United Kingdom, we don't sell direct. Um uh so as long as you deal with one of our selected distributors and you have a good relationship with one of the account managers from one of those distributors. And can you say who they are? I can. They are Habitech and All Trade and the Midwitch Group. Okay. Um, and they will help you. Um uh yes, we're not a high margin product. However, um, if you take AMP, for example, you can't buy AMP in a mainstream retailer, you can't buy it in John Lewis's, you can't buy it in Curry's, you can't buy in Argos because it's an exclusive product for the Pro Channel. Same with port, um, same with Era 100 Pro. Um and if you speak to a distributor about Era 100 Pro, you'll know that we've added more margin. Right. Yeah. Um, and then we may or may not have something in Barcelona for you all to come and see in February next year. I see. Yep. Again, it will have more margin because we understand that. We understand that if you install uh um an ERA 100, um, there's not a lot of money in that, it's a cheap product. Um but if you install an ARC and subs an ERA 300s, it's more money. There's more margin involved in that. If you install an AMP with a pair of ceiling speakers, whether Rs or other people, the blended margin of that suddenly becomes very good. But I'd also say we should never be your main product. You know, Sonos is never going to be your biggest. We have a lot of installers come and say, Oh, I'm only gonna do Sonos. No, you're not, because you won't make any money, you will go bust. We're gonna be part of an installation. Now, whether you're doing a crestron installation and you want to use a port, or you're doing control force installation, you want to use a port. Um those still bring Sonos into that uh installation with all the benefits of Sonos, the for reliability, the fact that you never have to go back, the fact that we have very good customer care, um, the fact that it it just works in any way the client wants it to work. So we've just done the update with the control four panel. So you can now search for music on Sonos on a control four panel. Um and so so if you want to have a control four panel um or other branded uh control systems, you can now search all of them. Um and therefore that will then control the system. The client never has to use our app, and we're not paranoid about that. Use our app, direct play, use a third-party controller. What happens is they all work in synergy. Well, I noticed at EI Live recently, you had a prolephera. IED control for RTI, URC, and nice. Um, and then not forgetting rhythm. Oh, yeah, because rhythm do it in a slightly different way.

SPEAKER_02: 45:07

Yep. Yeah, because I mean I think I get Dan's point of a product that makes you 10%, let's say, there's not the margin there, but but as you said, and it's the same, I'm never gonna sell an uh a small speaker to a client unless they're a regular customer or a neighbour. You're gonna sell a set of in-seedings with an amp, and the in-seedlings you are gonna make 30 to 60 depending on the brand.

SPEAKER_01: 45:33

And and I I have because I have that conversation that comes a lot, and a lot of installers do say, but I only make five, ten percent. Where are they buying it from? You know, where are they buying it from? Because there are many places you can buy it from and get more than double that in margin. Um, and if you then add, as you say, the 50, 45%, 50, 55% margin you can make on ceiling speakers, it becomes very profitable. You know, we do run a tiered margin structure. So we have margin for our all-in-ones, because that's what everybody sells, we have margin for our premium products, which includes the amp and the port, and then we have sealing marchitectural margin, and then we have accessories margin. Again, if you start to really talk to your distributor and work on what you need to do, you'll be surprised at how much you make. Bearing in mind that we're reliable. You know, you don't have to go back. Um uh, you know, clients aren't going to phone you up every Friday night and say my system doesn't work. Or if they do say that, something's gone wrong. Um uh, but it's rare that that happens.

SPEAKER_02: 46:35

But also, if you've done a, let's say, a little cinema system, a little surround sound system in the client's lounge, and their daughter's now 13, 14, then potentially then the next service call you have coming along, oh, your daughter's now 50. I'll tell you what, should we get her a little speaker for our bedroom?

SPEAKER_01: 46:50

And that's it. It's it's it's upsell, upsell, upsell. Um and it's always people, you know, people say, oh, you know, you direct sell. Well, if you fill every room in the house, we can't sell them anything else. Um, and yes, if somebody has bought something from a mainstream retailer and if we direct mail to them, they're probably gonna buy it from us. But if somebody's had a system installed by an installer, it's rare they're gonna buy it from anybody in the installer. Or that installer didn't fill the home with Sonos when they did the original home. In an installer world, the number of products sold is far greater per install, far greater than that in our retail side of our business or even our D2C business. Um, because installers are very good at listening to what clients need and fulfilling the needs of that client, which is not a single speaker downstairs and a single speaker upstairs. It's it's a matter of making sure that the system works properly for them. But what I would say to any installer that has a bit of a problem with us, where are you buying it from? Who do you deal with? You know, if you're not dealing with Habitech or Alltrade or the Midwitch group, then you're or exertis today, um, then you're not gonna be getting the best service.

SPEAKER_02: 48:02

What we said earlier before we whilst we were having a coffee um was that you know, like AllTrade sent me a couple of weeks ago an offer, and I looked at the I don't carry a lot of stock, I'm not a high street shop, but I will always carry, like I'll always have an amp and maybe a beam, you know, because you know, people like Habitech here or Alltrade, they do will every now and again say, Oh, you know, by the way, you're now earning X or buy X and get X and things like that.

SPEAKER_01: 48:30

So it's like anything in this world, the more you buy, the better it gets. Yeah, there's no doubt about that. If you're only gonna buy one product every six months, well, you're not gonna make any money. But if you're using us in sort of 50% of your installations, you'll suddenly be surprised at how much you do order in, and then you'll you'll get a different experience when you speak to your distributor about what they can offer you. Um, but it's also looking at what you can work with. You know, if you deal with Habitech, for example, they sell Lutron. Lutron's a great partner of ours, they sell RTI. RTI is a fantastic control system that works with us. Um, if you deal with Autray, they do uh they do uh RA2, so they still do Lutron and they do NICE and they do the Integra AVR, they do products that all work together. Um, and therefore, if you start to use us as a backbone of an installation, but you then add on these other toys in the onto it that work beautifully with us, then all of a sudden you you have got a problem-free installation. You are making money. Um, and as I say to everybody, if you've got a problem and you don't come to me, how can I help you? Yeah. You know, I'm not I don't hide behind a uh a bush. I make myself pretty available. Well, you've been all the all the CDTs. I do all the CD Tech submits, I do EI Live, I will be at ISE. You can't always get me because I'm always being interviewed at ISE, but I will be at ISE. And so I do make myself readily available to people to have a conversation with. Are you doing the all trade show? I will be doing the all trade show.

SPEAKER_02: 50:04

That will be a that's probably actually for me on it, that's probably going to be gone by the time this comes out. But I was at the all trade show. You were at the all trade show.

SPEAKER_01: 50:10

And I'll be at the all trade show in Manchester next year. Okay. Because they're going back to the Manchester venue next year. Um, so so yeah, I try and make myself available to anybody. Um you can find me on LinkedIn um and and several other social medias. Um, if you don't know who I am or you don't know how to get a hold of me, you will know somebody who does. Speak to Habitech or AllTrade. Speak to Habitech or All Trade, um, or speak to one of your fellow installers. It's likely that somebody I won't put your telephone number on. I do not put my telephone number on there. But it's a matter of yes, I am one, you know, I am one person. I have several colleagues on my retail side of my business, but it's me for the pro channel. And so therefore I can't get everywhere all the time, but I don't ever hide. If my phone rings, I'll answer it. Um and if you've got a problem or you think you've got a problem, then phone me up or or or text me or WhatsApp me or whatever, because I will try and help you in any way I can. Um, and I urge you all to come to Barcelona in February.

SPEAKER_02: 51:10

Yeah, well, I hope I know we we mentioned that we might do a pod in the new year. Yes, exactly. An embargoed pod where I've got to keep my mouth shut for a few weeks. Yes, yes, yes, like we did with uh Trinoff recently. Um it's great, I love doing it, but uh I'm not I'm not a gossip spreader, but you know, it's like oh my god, I can't tell you anything about it, but just just come to Barcelona.

SPEAKER_01: 51:31

You will you will you will all know what it is before you get on a plane to Barcelona.

SPEAKER_02: 51:37

So again, a bit like Trinov recently, they released it at the end of August for City of Denver. Okay, so that's good. So that's something to look forward to. Um so I mean, recent changes with Sonos, obviously, we've got this coming up. Um, the I know a lot of people are probably gonna be screaming at the video TV, going, talk about the app, talk about the app. Um and I must admit, as we were saying earlier, I I'm a periodic Solid user because I do mainly dedicate cinemas. Um, but and I've used the app last year, and actually I didn't find anything wrong with it. But you listen to um you listen to friends of ours like uh the guys at home tech.fm, you know, um Owen and Tom have talked about it, and you listen to people going, you know, oh my god, the app, what have they done? It's terrible, blah blah blah, and all this lot.

SPEAKER_01: 52:31

I think no, and and and rightly so to a certain extent. Um we did, we did, shall we say, take our eyes off the the boil if you such. We there was no everybody thinks we had to change it because of X. We didn't. We just needed a new way of controlling our system that would propel us into the future for toys that are coming down the line, that we need this new software that will do what it needed to do. Now, was that software right to launch at the time? Probably not. Um, there's no doubt that there was a bit of a a wind behind the noise around it. You know, there was I knew there were installers complaining about the new app that didn't install Sonos, and that I knew they'd never installed Sonos, but they were still complaining about us. Um but again, my phone was very busy at that time, but it could have been even busier because I I would I would have conversations with people, I would explain what was going on, I'd explain timelines, and here we are today, and it's better than it's ever been. App today is better than any of our apps have ever, ever, ever, ever been. But we're not saying that's it. We'll keep investing, we'll keep developing it, we'll keep making it better and better and better. But to your point, there were people that totally unaware there was anything going wrong last year. Um uh because they direct play, they they direct play from Spotify, or they direct play from Tidal, or they spread direct play from Kboss or whatever it is, or they were using a third-party device to control us, and therefore they never entered the app, never came into their world. Um, uh, or they don't have an automatic update, so it never updated anyway. Um whereas today it's brilliant and it works amazingly. However, we don't say you have to use it. Yes, it's what you used to set us up in the first place, but once you've done that, we're not paranoid about that. We make it possible for you to control us in a myriad of different ways, whether it's voice control, whether it's third-party device control, whether it's direct play from the streaming services, or whether it is via our app. But the only thing about it is you could if you start it one way and then change to another way, it all works in sync. So it's two-way control, basically. Kind of, yeah. No, it is. You know, if if you if you have a if you have an app in your phone with the room on it and the volume control in front of it, and you say, hey Sonos, play the living room louder, you'll see you'll you'll see it go up. Okay. Um same principle. If you if you use the volume control on the top of our product, you'll see it go up. Um that's how it all works in harmony with itself. But there's no doubt about it, last year was interesting, and it has meant we've had some changes within our organization. We have a new CEO. Um he's now four four, six months into Raw, I can't remember. Um, so Tom's our new CEO, um, very good guy, um, from product background, which is good. Um, and we have a whole new product organization as well. Um, and we do have a lot of product people that only work on product for the pro channel. So there are people who work on the stuff for for for retail for retailers and all in one product, but then we do have a lot of people in product management and software management that only work on toys for the pro channel. We don't develop product three hundred a year, you know. It takes us a long time to make product, but leave you me, it's what we've got coming down the line is very exciting for the pro channel.

SPEAKER_02: 55:57

So could we see now again? This is well, I know nothing about what's coming down the line. So could we see like a could that be something that might come down the line?

SPEAKER_01: 56:16

I can't, I can't comment. You can you can they might be looking at it. You can you can think, you know, if you're an installer and you think what you want us to make, it's extremely unlikely that we haven't thought of that. Okay. Um uh we'll always try and make it better than what you think you want, because often installers will say to me, you know, I want a new amp. Well, what do you want it to be? You want it to be more powerful? No. You want it to have this? No. Well, what do you want to be then? Well it'd be white. What do you want? Um, you know, so we we hear what everybody says, um, and uh believe you me, you you won't be disappointed uh when when something does come to market. I'm not saying what's coming, I'm not saying in what order it's coming, um, other than you'll see the first one um in a few weeks in a few weeks' time in Barcelona.

SPEAKER_02: 57:02

Okay. I mean, uh as I say, because I I'm not a massive Sonos supplier, um, but I have been aware and used Sonos ever since those early days of like sitting on my kitchen table with my wife, and you do see that iteration, and you know, and as a person that's installed those to play bars, to arcs, to beams, and things like that. I'll tell you an interesting story about a play bar um which will make you laugh and it will make me look really, really bad. You know how you remember how you had a play bar and then you had the like the divot behind it at the top, and then so I was doing an install in Tunbridge, I was putting it below the below the TV, and I can't remember why now, but I think the wall was chased out slightly, and I remember picking up the bar and looking at it and going, Oh bugger, I've done it the wrong way around.

SPEAKER_01: 57:51

And I'm like, Well, that'd be fine, but then the Sonos logo will be upside down, and it was only at that point I looked at the Solus logo and went, oh yeah, that is that is probably the most you know, people then that that get Sonos for the first time and then they meet me and they get it. There's loads of people now looking at their solar product. Did you know, did you know if you turn it upside down, it's the same. Is it? Oh no, it's still even today, people people say that. Um uh you know, if you get a if you get a if you got a if you've got a uh uh a roam, you know, you turn it that way and that way, it reads the same way. Yeah, um uh but yes, it's not an uncommon, an uncommon thing to say.

SPEAKER_02: 58:31

It's one of my most famous moments of just like, oh you absolute spanner. Because there was that moment where I'm like, oh no, I've messed this up. Because I've at that time it was the optical and the power was going to it and all this lot, and I'm like, oh my god, I've messed it up. And I've already chased it out, I've already plastered it.

SPEAKER_01: 58:47

But it also it also had a uh a system in it that knew which way around it was. So if you hit it that way around and then you turned it around, it would change. Okay, because it knew that it was upside, effectively upside down. You can't do that on ARC, but you could on play bar because it could either be underneath the TV or above the TV. Yeah, and if it was above the TV, it needed to point down. That would play more of the TV.

SPEAKER_02: 59:08

Seriously, play my OCD, that would I can't. I just that's where like the world of invisible speakers I like. Because if there's like you can't see it on camera, but there's a TV here, and if I had to put a speaker above that TV, it would just do my OCD in something chronic. Um so okay, so we'll look wrapping things up. Um is there before we get on to some fun questions, is there anything else you want to touch on with Sonos going forward, um, out to the consumer, out to the CI, before we sort of wrap up the podcast and get onto some fun questions.

SPEAKER_01: 59:40

Okay, now all I would really say is if you are an installer, uh you know, put your hand out for a handshake. Come and say hello when you when I'm at the CJ Tech Summit, or I'm at EL Live, or I'm at ISE, or I'm at the all trade shows, or wherever I pitch up. Do come and introduce yourself. I don't know all of you. I know who you are, I don't know necessarily who you are if you're in something, I know what your company is as. Like that I've heard of your company, I may not know you. So do come and make yourself a friend to me. And therefore, I will be able to help you in the future. As far as consumers, our products are good, and they are really good. And they can make a massive difference in your life if you have them in the home. Particularly if you like music, or if you don't like music, you can use podcasts, you can do anything. You can just enhance your TV listening experience by having our products in your home. But if you do have one of our soundbars on your TV, don't forget that is a phenomenal music system. Yes, it does phenomenal things for your TV, but it's an amazing system for your music. And it's amazing how many customers have our soundbars but never play music for them. Really? It's astounding how that happens. And it's like, well, you didn't buy from an installer because they would have told you that. But a lot of people buy them because they're worried about the sound of the TV. And somebody has said, buy this because it will make your TV sound much better. Not incorrect. But they don't think about it being a sonos speaker.

SPEAKER_02: 1:01:08

And I don't think they realise how easy it is to switch between the two.

SPEAKER_01: 1:01:12

Yeah, the TV will switch it. It all works on the TV remote control. But I I've even witnessed, I've been to friends' homes, and they've had a sonos soundbar on their TV and they've had a party and they've brought speakers down from the bedroom. And I was like, Why have you done that? Well, because I want to play music. Yeah, but you've got a soundbar. Yeah, that's the for the TV. No, no. Come and sit next to Stephen and I'll show you how it works. No, you know, they're my friends. Not my good friends, but my friends, you know. So they were good friends, they're no longer. No, no, don't talk to them anymore. Um, you know, so so those conversations all happen all the time. Um, so make sure you keep your system updated. Always have automatic updates, that's important. Um, things, and most of our updates enhance a system. Um, so even though we will launch a product, you could argue that when we launch a product, it's really, really good, but it's only ever going to get better because we will work on software to make it better over time, and then it's a free update. So make sure you always have automatic updates on there, and then make sure that you use an installer to install your product into your home so it's installed properly.

SPEAKER_02: 1:02:19

Well, you've also in in going to the high street is fine, but when you speak to Billy at a shared on an industrial somewhere, you're not going to get to speak to Billy again. And unfortunately, I've had experience with some of the big stores where after 30 days they won't even speak to you again.

SPEAKER_01: 1:02:36

This is this is something I've heard a lot of. Um, and and to say nothing against our retail partners out there, they they do a very good job for us, but there's a big difference about buying a single era 100 and buying a multi-sonos, a multi-room sonor system. Um, and to have an installer install that into your home where you have all the hassle of that taken away from you, um, um, making sure that you've got the right Wi-Fi box in your home to control it. Oh, yeah. Um, uh, because that's another conversation we could have for a long time over. I could do another hour. We could do another hour. Um I think you know that that that's where the world works. And installers say to me, but you don't need us, yes, we do. You know, the installer market for us is a big business. You know, I don't get paid my salary because I only turn over£100 a year. You know, I do a multi-million pound turnover and I only deal with installers. Um, and so therefore you are a very important part of our world, um, and it's how I earn my living. Um, but more than that, um we we we will always be multi-channel, we always will be. That's who we are. Um, but you will find more toys come down the line that you can't buy on our website, you can't buy in retail, that you can only buy from an installer.

SPEAKER_02: 1:03:49

Which is good to hear. And actually, no, uh talking directly to a consumer, um, do reach out to a HCA member, do reach out to a CDM member because I literally have had last few weeks, I've had a client that's got an issue with an LG TV. Now, I make no margin on LG TVs, I have LG TV and I have no problems with mine. And I've gone, and he's a very, very busy man. So I've gone to LG's website, I've registered a full and said, could you call him? Now, I'm not charged for that, I'm not getting enough of that. But this guy spent a lot of money with me and he continues to spend money with me.

SPEAKER_01: 1:04:21

Remember that.

SPEAKER_02: 1:04:22

And and actually, if you do want an ARC Ultra or you do want a sub£10,000 cinema, then then reach out to a CI member because actually you've also got a comp another company's phone number. Yeah. They may use a service like Parasol, or you might be able to pick them up and speak to them directly. But for the CI member, um, there they can then future sell um in the same way that we do off of TVs.

SPEAKER_01: 1:04:47

And and and that's worth noting out, we now have an online version of our app. Yeah. And as long as an installer knows the username and password of a sonor system, he can remotely access that system. It's not full remote control, you never know what's coming down the future. But if a client was up and says something's not working, if he knows the username and password and he goes on playsonos.com and then he adds that username and password, he will see that client system and he'll know whether something's not working. Obvious, you know, if one's gone off, it's not connected anymore, well, the power's turned off. So you have to go to that website, log in with their VTS. That's right. And that multiple times. So you could have it, you could have it where it's controlling your system at home off a laptop, but then you just log out, log back in with their username, and it will show you their system.

SPEAKER_02: 1:05:33

Yeah, because obviously that's something. I mean, personally, we deal with control for and oversee, and that's great because sometimes people will phone me up and say, My Sky Q box is not working, and I'll look at it and go, it's because it's turned off. Yes. Press the button and turn it back on a bit.

SPEAKER_01: 1:05:47

So it's not full remote management. I said, We never know what's coming down the line, um, but it does give you the ability to at least have a look at a system when you're not in the home anymore. And it will give you some if it's a if it's an obvious problem, you should as an installer, you should be able to work that out. Yes, if it needs to have a service call, I urge anybody to use the support within the app because that does go AI, but it's a very good AI. Um, it got us out of a lot of trouble last year with our app problems. Um, so if you go for support via the app, that is first grant. If if that if the AI can't help you, you'll then get triggered to a real person. We do still employ real people, um, but the AI can get you out of a lot of problems. Um, but that's via the app. And then don't ever call our support as an installer and not have a diagnostic number. Okay. And then complain that they thought you were an end user. You know, hello, I'm Bob. Here's my diagnostic number. That would let customer support know that you're probably going to be a bit more than a person in the street.

SPEAKER_02: 1:06:49

And if you're a consumer watching this podcast and your SOLUS isn't working, have you just changed your Wi-Fi supplier? Precisely. Because Mr. Insert ISP here has not gone around and changed all your SSIDs everywhere. That's generally the first. I literally had a service call the other day, and I th the ISP had changed the IP range. So rather than using 192.168.0, they started using.1. Guess why nothing in the house works? So all I do is go in there and change it back to the city.

SPEAKER_01: 1:07:20

Such a common thing. I've changed my Wi-Fi, I've changed from X to X and nothing works anymore. There's a reason for that.

SPEAKER_02: 1:07:26

That'd be what that's I mean, what I did control for by package all those years ago. Yes. Because 80% of the service calls were network based.

SPEAKER_01: 1:07:33

And no, no, no, and I would say that's true today for us. I would say that probably 90% of our customer care calls will relate to non-Sonos problems. Generally networking. Yep. Um, and then there's that, as we've said before, there's the whole what's internet and what's Wi-Fi.

SPEAKER_02: 1:07:51

And even better reason to go for a custom installer to get your SONOS installed because they know your or at least they should know how to do a Wi-Fi network.

SPEAKER_01: 1:07:58

Should know to do your Wi-Fi system, please God they do. Yeah. Um, and they will be able to advise you yes, you may have to pay a little bit more money, um, but then do remember that you didn't pay anything for your router you've got at home that doesn't work.

SPEAKER_02: 1:08:10

So, yeah, but yeah, and we are back in all the way from the days of Sky boxes that were well, if you know, if Sky are paying Amstrad£50 for this box, Amstrad sitting there going, We've got to make this for a tenner, babe. Yeah, there's always that free thing that comes is free for a reason.

SPEAKER_01: 1:08:28

Exactly that, yeah. No, precisely that. And as another as well, we'll have another conversation about it.

SPEAKER_02: 1:08:33

But no, it's certainly something to look at. Awesome. So get on to a little bit of fun. So, two questions for you. Tell me something which people might not know about you personally.

SPEAKER_01: 1:08:45

Okay, um uh part that I'm getting very old. Um, the the one thing that a lot of people don't know about me, um, that I'm not in my very, very tight social circle, is that I'm a very good cook. Nice. Uh, and I cook uh some very good food. I was saying myself, I am passionate about wine, um, and so I'm a very good person to have if you need wine uh ordering for you. Um so that is my passion. Um I've got two big grown-up boys now who don't live at home anymore. One of them recently got married. Um so I do um live with my beautiful wife, um, and we love travelling. So you're empty nesters now. Empty nesters, um, even though the oldest one does come back again because he's moved to Wales but lives in London. Works in London but lives in Wales. You said boys.

SPEAKER_02: 1:09:35

As a boy, we I I've been back two or three times, and one of those was with my wife and dog at the time.

SPEAKER_01: 1:09:41

Yeah, exactly that. So we are fine that we have a lot more time on our hands, and therefore we are travelling a lot more. Um and that's it. But no, for me, it is it is I I adore cooking. Um, it's it's one of the things that really gets me buzzing. Um, it's how I relax. Uh, yes, I do enjoy Formula One, and it was great to see McLaren win the world championship. And your and George winning. Yes, and George win the race. Exactly. Some Brits winning, um, which was very, very good. Um, and I'm a big rugby union fan. Okay.

SPEAKER_02: 1:10:09

Excellent. No, actually, we should do another podcast on wine because not a lot of people, not a lot of people don't know about me, is that I've I'm a trained wine. I didn't quite get to Celia. I didn't do the higher, but I did the WSET and I did the the degree or whatever it was. Because years ago I used to own a wine manner. It's not just about looking at the top shelf in the supermarket, it's okay and what you're buying. And considering I don't I now don't drink as well.

SPEAKER_01: 1:10:33

No, which I hear. Yeah, which I now don't drink as much as I don't drink as much as I did, but I couldn't say I don't drink anymore.

SPEAKER_02: 1:10:39

No, I do I do miss a nice glass of Sentimiliana. Yes. And I'm glad that my mother and father-in-law don't live in the south of France and I have to drive past Bordeaux. Um, right, so one last question. Um, we are the Home Cinema Alliance and we focus on cinemas. What's your favourite film or what's some of your favourite films that have a something you go back to or have a lasting?

SPEAKER_01: 1:11:02

So so I I said I've been around for a long time. Um so I do like quite a lot of those old Michael Cain type thrillers. Um but then today um I'm uh a big fan of fun. And what I mean by that is uh things that have really good sound to them, not surprisingly. Um so things that are cinemographic. So Dune, for example. The soundtrack on Dune is or Dune 2 is unbelievable. Um, and often that's where I will go today. It will be what's got a phenomenal soundtrack on it, and therefore, how do you get that real experience from it? But genre-wise, if I'm gonna go and watch something, I will probably pick up something like an old James Bond movie or uh an Indiana, Indiana Jones, or something like that. That'll be where my uh comfort is.

SPEAKER_02: 1:12:04

Alright, that's I tried to do it last year and I downloaded them all onto Colliderscape. Was that I want to sit and watch all the Indiana Jones. Yes. Maybe not the latter ones. No, no, not the latter ones. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_01: 1:12:15

But the originals.

SPEAKER_02: 1:12:16

But the originals. There's there's a programme I've just been watching just recently, which was very sort of like treasure hunt. And there's something for me that I just love about the whole genre. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:12:28

But they all go back to Indiana Jones, and but but no, that whole genre of treasure hunters and who knows what. There's a lot of it around. Some of it good, some of it not so good. But um no, there's original, it's the age I am. Um, you know, it's the original, the original uh Indiana Joneses that I watched as a young man.

SPEAKER_02: 1:12:46

And as an F1, have you watched the F1 movie?

SPEAKER_01: 1:12:49

I haven't yet, no, nor have I. I am going to. Um I think it's gonna, I I I have a feeling it's gonna be a bit more like the Maverick um uh film. You know, it's it's it's a it's a it has a similar storyline to it. And nothing wrong with Maverick, of course. Fantastic sound system, the soundtrack to it. Um, but no, it's it's something that I will be watching. So I don't I don't go to the cinema as much as I used to, funnily enough. So often I do wait for it to come onto the onto the streaming services.

SPEAKER_02: 1:13:16

I was about to say, I'm I'm pretty sure if I go back to the video that I've been recording editing this weekend, Stuart Tickle watched it, and I think he said he watched it in IMAX and he said that was a sensory explosion.

SPEAKER_01: 1:13:28

No, no, exactly, like anything, you know. I know that I've got a very good system, I do have the Arc Ultra, I have subs, I have Era 300s as rears, but I know that that if I went and sat in one of the other cinemas in in this building, I'd be blown away by it. And to the same extent, if I go to a really good IMAX cinema, you're gonna be blown away from it. But it's all relative. It's what you can have and what you could afford to have in your own home. It's also relative to what you can put up with.

SPEAKER_02: 1:13:52

Precisely. I can't go to commercial cinemas. I think it was it, is it Stelios, the easy guy? Yeah. He he had some cinemas which were called easy cinemas, and they weren't selling food. Now, that to me that was heaven. Maybe if they'd opened one up in East Sussex, I would have gone to it. But for me, the I mean it's like the Minecraft movie just recently. Yeah, I saw a uh I saw something on social about the cleaner cleaning the aisles, and there was so much popcorn you could have filled a bag back up, and not a good popcorn, overpriced popcorn. I mean, if I was the parent of said child saying that cost me 20 quid, did you really score that on the floor? Yes, yeah, it's very true, very, very true. Awesome. Well, look, thank you very much, Stephen. Um thank you so much. It's been awesome to have you. So we'll touch base again in the before IC. And uh yeah, and hopefully some of the people watching this, obviously IC is Integrated Systems Europe is a trade show, uh, so you do need to be a member of the public to see it.

SPEAKER_01: 1:14:55

Um not a member of the public to see it.

SPEAKER_02: 1:14:57

Sorry? Not a member of the public. No, sorry, not a member of the public to see it. You have to be within the trade. Within the trade, or know a friend who is in the trade who's looking to get you in. Um I didn't say that. But thank you very much. And uh yeah, thanks for talking about it.

SPEAKER_01: 1:15:10

Thank you very much. Thank you.