Podcast Sunday with Dan Dutcher (Progression)

Come take a listen to our discussion with Mercy Vineyard's Children's Minister Dan Dutcher as we discuss his life from the aspect of Progression. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:03

Yo, welcome and thank you for tuning in to Murph to Youth Podcast Sundays. Murph to Youth is all about connecting with God and connecting with others. Our goal is to provide students with community and stories and testimonies that they can identify with in hope that these testimonies will resonate with us. We believe that sharing our personal stories of faith is a powerful way to present the gospel, encouraging self-reflection and a sense of shared faith. Well, tune in this week as we talk to children's minister Dan Gutcher about his testimony. So our topic of today is progression. And I wanted to start us off with this scripture that I've it kind of reminded me of what it means to progress. And this is Apostle Paul writing this letter to the Philippians. It's uh Philippians 3, 13 through 14. It says this: it says, brothers and sisters, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it, but one thing I do, forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead. I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ. You know, when I think about that passage, I think about the walk and the journey of life, right? The journey of life in the faith. And it's like Paul is saying, hey, I haven't arrived, right? I haven't reached the prize yet, but I'm I'm forgetting the former. But I'm making sure I'm keeping my my eyes forward and ahead of what Christ would have for me. When you think when you hear that script, that passage, what kind of comes to your mind?

SPEAKER_04 1:47

Oh my goodness. So Philippians 3.14, not for confused, but 4.13, that also gets quoted. I quoted both of those when I was your age. Yeah, because I was really into making progress. In fact, when I was younger, my life was all about progress. I was a competitive swimmer. Yeah. From age 8 all the way through college, uh, I also was very academic. And so everything was about how do I get better, how do I get better, how do I get better. So the way I understood that when I was younger, that scripture, I had one understanding of it, but over time I've come to a different understanding of it. Wow. But in both instances, I really see that, you know, God draws us forward. He drives us forward in different aspects of life, yeah. And he also draws us forward into him.

SPEAKER_00 2:33

Amen. Amen. Amen. So our first question today, Dan, is about your upbringing, right? Yes. And your early faith, early childhood. So looking back at your childhood, just kind of going over that. What are like some defining moments that just kind of begin to influence you and understanding who God was, your faith, and how did you bring how did you have language for that?

SPEAKER_04 2:56

Right. So I am not from here. I I have now lived in Minnesota over 10 years, but I'm not from here. I grew up in Boise, Idaho. Uh grew up in a conservative Christian household, which you could imagine kind of some of the uh what that would look like. My parents uh were wonderful people, are wonderful people. Yes. Are? Still around. Uh and they helped out in children's ministry. Uh they did some amazing things that that pointed me in the right direction, and I really, really appreciate. Yeah. I remember they they surrounded me with music that was worshipful. Yeah. Uh I remember I had one, as you were asking me these questions, I one memory came to mind of when I was younger. Uh-huh. And I was just, this is this is back in the day when you didn't always wear seatbelts. I was like in this truck, and I was kind of down in the wheel well. Yeah. And I was just kind of chilling on a long road trip.

SPEAKER_01 3:53

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_04 3:54

And I was making up songs. Wow. And you know, in the moment I knew it felt different. I was making up songs to God. Yeah. And it was just something that, like, okay, what was that? Is that just gibberish? But in hindsight, now I see what I was doing. It's like, that was I was encountering God by worshiping.

SPEAKER_00 4:11

That's amazing.

SPEAKER_04 4:12

And it was like, even just at a really young age, like, just, you know, God was meeting me in those moments.

SPEAKER_00 4:18

Wow, man. And seeing me.

SPEAKER_04 4:20

But it was, it was uh, it's a journey. Amen.

SPEAKER_00 4:23

For sure. I mean, it's powerful if you think about it, like, for you to experience God at that that age. Um, and when we think about worship, and we think we were just talking about that this morning about worshiping and how God inhabits that that worship. When you were that young, you're making up these songs, and for you, it was it it was almost like second nature, wasn't it? It was like because of what you were around, because of what you're in influence with, it was kind of like a second nature thing. I I that resonates with me too, because I would always find myself making up music or making up songs, which is probably the reason why I got into writing music, is because it's like this this connection that you have with God, and it's like you and God, and these words that the Holy Spirit is giving you, or even a gibberish, or even a moan, or even uh uh a hymn or a hum.

SPEAKER_04 5:17

Yeah, it wasn't like speaking in tongues.

SPEAKER_00 5:19

No, you weren't speaking in tongues at at nine years old, right?

SPEAKER_04 5:23

But it was it was very organic. It wasn't like anything where I knew I'm like, I'm gonna sit down and make up a song. It was just kind of the things that like now I look back and I realize what it was.

SPEAKER_00 5:35

Yeah, that's huge, man. That's huge. I'm gonna change gears a little bit, still sticking sticking to your young life, your testimony. So in your personal testimony, what when I should say when, not what, but when you think about it, when was the moment that felt most vivid to you, right? Where there was uh something that marked a turning point, yeah, and you were like, Oh, I'm sold out. Right, I'm on Team Jesus.

SPEAKER_04 6:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:02

When did that happen?

SPEAKER_04 6:03

So my turning point moment, which was actually as people were praying for me, like named it, this is a turning point. Wow. Uh happened when I was in going into high school. Uh I was had, we had just moved to a new place that we were going to uh Vineyard Church in Boise, Idaho. Okay, yeah. Uh and I was at a youth conference after having attended the church for a little bit. I was at a youth conference, and the the speaker that was talking was talking about having your own relationship with God.

SPEAKER_00 6:33

Wow.

SPEAKER_04 6:34

And having this guy had some amazing experiences, like really horrific life. Yeah. But through that, he had his own relationship with God had brought him closer. And so he was saying, look, this doesn't have to be just something you hear about, or it's like pie in the sky, or you know, something that's so amazing, and just you you don't ever experience it. Yeah. But this is a real relationship that you have with God. Amen. And for me at that point, it was a starting point because I I did grow up in a Christian household. Yeah. And I had gone to church, my parents had taken me to church, but that was largely out of, again, it was kind of a performance-based thing. It was like, here's how you be a good kid. Yeah. Here's how you do the thing to get praise and you know, to score points. Right. Uh but there we go with the points again. I didn't necessarily, if you were to ask me, I wouldn't say that was the answer because that wouldn't score points, right? Right. You gotta give the right answers.

SPEAKER_00 7:29

To get the I get you.

SPEAKER_04 7:31

I get you. Any any any PK or knows what I'm talking about to say the right thing. But this moment was turning point because it was really when I think back, I was literally in the in the seats, uh-huh, sitting with my parents, kind of on the nose. Yeah. And this guy gives the altar call and he says, if you want to have your open relationship, and I just turned to my mom and I said, I gotta go. Wow. I gotta go. And I I I think back and it was kind of a moment where like I said, I gotta go, but my legs were already moving. And I was like, something within me has already decided this. And and I mean, I know it was me and and God meeting me, but yeah, that was I went forward, got prayer. Yeah. I had an amazing experience of like, I would just say it was kind of one of these where obviously very emotional, yeah, but there was something very supernatural happening too, where I was like kind of resisting at first, but then just like, okay, let go. Next thing I know, I'm on the floor flat out. Wow. Um and like just really experiencing the grace of God in a way that was profound, powerful, and uh, and there was a lot of people experiencing that at that time too, so it was uh but this was this was all kind of new and different, right?

SPEAKER_00 8:47

And and can I ask you, as because you were in high school, right? So as a high schooler, did you feel a pressure to like say, hey, I don't know if I should do this because other high schoolers aren't doing it? Or did you feel like I'm just gonna step out on a limb here because I know I'm being pushed in this direction, and I know, like, like you said, my your feet were moving before your head was even there. Was it just a natural thing, or did you have to sit and think about it? Um did it feel like you were kind of going against the grain, if you will.

SPEAKER_04 9:20

The thinking about it happened leading up to that. And then I put I was continually putting myself in a place where then when God called, it was more natural. Yeah. But I think the thinking happened before. So, like leading up to this, I said we had moved, we we had changed churches, um, and I had been going to a church where I was dressed up in shirt and tie. Oh, yeah. Very crimp proper. Uh chemils, high church, yes, definitely high church. Uh and so it was very formal, and then when we moved and we found out about this Vineyard Boise, um, their their slogan at the time was Come as you are. And so I was this, you know, pretty straight-edge kid that was doing well and swimming in school and doing all this, but inside of me, yeah, there was kind of a rowing rebellion. Right? There was a point at which I was like, you know, I was really trying new things, but still keeping the candy coating in sh in shape. Right, right. And I was at a kind of a turning point. Yeah. And we were moving, this happened, and they they said, come as you are. So I was like, Alright, I will take you at your word that you want me to come as I am. Uh-huh. And so instead of coming in shirt and tie, I was like, my little rebelliousness kind of peeked out, and I was like, I'm gonna come in a tie-dye shirt with uh cut-off shorts and flip-flops. And so this was in the 90s, and uh it wasn't as common to have coffee and stuff, but they did. Oh these giant muffins that were like the size of your head, so big sugar rush was part of it. Right, right. Uh but I came in and tie-dye shirt, cut-off shorts, and nobody cared.

SPEAKER_01 11:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 11:04

And that kind of caught me off guard because I had up until that point been all about the appearance. Right. How do we keep this on the outside? Uh that was kind of what was modeled to me in many ways. Yeah. But now that there was something, and and to my to their credit, my parents were like, they let me do that. They didn't make me change. I love it. They were said, okay, yeah, you need to test this and see this for yourself. I love it, man. And they gave me the opportunity to test that. And and it wasn't that instance necessarily that led, but that was where I was thinking about it. And it it changed my mind in many ways about, oh, yeah, if God's not about the appearances, if he's about the heart, right? Maybe I haven't actually given him. Because I, at this point, guys, I had been in the line, I had been in a procession line to go get baptized, come to almost like machine. Yeah, like in the line. Yeah. You know, so I did the things and said the stuff, but honestly, I know for myself that a heart change had to happen.

SPEAKER_00 12:07

Amen. Until that turning point. Amen. And I think that's the key. I think with all of us, we have to make the conscious decision to make the heart change if we really want to see God move. Right.

SPEAKER_04 12:21

And really let God make it. Yes. He is the one that makes it change. And that was the thing that I didn't get before was like, in this world of make it happen, do the progression, you make the progress, the real progress that Philippians 3.14 is talking about, I look towards what is. Right. And that is what pulls me in. That's not something I work towards my own salvation. I can't ever do that.

SPEAKER_00 12:46

Wow. Amen, bro. Amen. So you were a part of the vineyard movement in high school.

SPEAKER_02 12:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:52

Right? So, how did that environment shape you and shape your faith, your identity, and your sense of calling?

SPEAKER_04 13:00

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 13:00

Like, that's that's huge, man.

SPEAKER_04 13:02

So a big a big part of it was just honest engagement. Like, you come, you can sit at and we had circle tables with coffee. I wasn't drinking coffee at the time, but I liked it. I like the muffins and the donuts, and uh, and honestly, we had I had a great um lead pastor, Try Robinson. Oh he was just a real down-to-earth kind of guy. I've heard that name a few times. Yeah, um founded at Boise Vineyard. And uh just it was it was everything was marked by like we're doing this because it's real. Like we sing because we're actually singing to God, we're not singing to each other, we're not singing to perform, yeah. We're not we're not doing this for imaging.

SPEAKER_01 13:44

Yeah, it's real.

SPEAKER_04 13:46

It's real. This is a real relationship that we're experiencing together as a body. And so that was, I mean, the vineyard, of course, being a movement of having genuine worship, yeah. Having that be real was was a key part uh that as a as a as my own spiritual discipline and practice uh from a relatively young age was something that like gave me language, gave me practice to to be able to, you know, come to God. Right, right, have him change me in those moments. Because that's really the thing about worship is that we don't do to make God, we come so that God can change us. And in that mess, we are changed.

SPEAKER_01 14:26

Amen. That's facts, bro.

SPEAKER_00 14:28

That's facts. We're switchgears here. Yeah. Talk about, so was there a particular pastor, right, that Planet Sees? I know you mentioned uh your pastor, but was there a youth pastor that Planet sees to make you become the pastor you become today?

SPEAKER_04 14:44

I I think that's God's work, but he also he participated and and actually a couple, uh-huh, uh Steve and Depp, uh, and they they loved on teenage as well. I love it. They were a very boisterous couple that like didn't mind the messiness of teenage life, yeah. And they were really there to give raw, honest answers to raw, honest questions, and I I really agree with that. I think it it planted in me a real appreciation for authenticity.

SPEAKER_00 15:13

Right. And do you see yourself now as a children's minister emulating or doing some of the same things or keeping those the core values of saying, I'm gonna be authentic, I'm gonna be raw, and I'm gonna be real. Because I think those are the ways that we relate to individuals, not us being high church and having looking like, oh, we have it all together. But hey, I'm also in pursuit of Jesus too.

SPEAKER_04 15:36

Yeah, you know, and and for sure, but I think what I'm gaining a new appreciation for is for everybody that looks a little bit different. And it especially looks different for pre-K versus like 10th grade. And so there's language, there's kind of an understanding the way you meet God when you're a little, maybe not be exactly the same way you meet older, but it's the same heart.

SPEAKER_00 15:59

Amen. Amen. Wow, that'll preach, bro. That'll preach. Alright, I'm gonna shift gears. So, those of you who don't know, Dan was in served in our in our Air Force, okay? Dan uh was a major in our Air Force. So your time in the Air Force, I'm sure it brought on new challenges and structure. How did military life stretch you spiritually, emotionally, professionally, all the leads, okay? Uh, and in what ways, you know, didn't you expect that to happen and what happened?

SPEAKER_04 16:32

Yeah, so I mean, coming out of college, I was commissioned as a lieutenant in the Air Force. I then went into pilot training and had the opportunity to be my dream job, which was flight planes. Uh, I flew big KC tanker fuelers, reconnaissance drones after that, so um transitioned through some really cool jobs. Uh I would say the Air Force in general, it gave me a lot of structure that I needed, which was nice, but it was still in this realm of like, you know, and and that's a that can be a good thing so long as that's not the I think God kind of moved me in some ways for from making that the thing to a thing. Yeah. Um but there was obviously there was a number of instances where I was actually calling on God because I was afraid. Wow. I could not so give us a story. When I was freshman in uh my the summer year after my freshman year in college, uh-huh uh I got to go do a jump program at the Air Force Academy. Oh my goodness. Uh, which is it's a really unique opportunity. You get to do five jumps out of a jet uh in Carl Springs out of out of a prop airplane. Wow. First jump is by yourself. You don't really see anywhere in the civilian world. Civilian world, like they jump and they have to have somebody with you. Right. First time I ever jumped out of a plane was by myself. Are you kidding me? Now they do it, they do a uh week of ground school ahead of time, but you are right there in the door of this airplane, you know, and jumping out and doing free fall and then pulling your chute and everything. And and I was I was a little freaked out that uh God actually gave me 2 Timothy uh 1-7. God's not giving us a spirit of fear. Come on, you know, come on, we can walk path he's given us. So that was that was kind of one, I would say, one of uh uh a few experiences. I also went on to fly tanker fueling, so you're flying big aircraft behind other aircraft or in front of other aircraft. Yeah. Dangerous stuff.

SPEAKER_00 18:33

So with the air tank crafts, you're flying most of the time gas. Are you giving gas to another plane mid-flight?

SPEAKER_04 18:43

KC-10 had a uh it was an amazing plane. It's kind of like if you've ever seen the MD-11s, the FedEx planes at the airport that have the engine on the tail. If you ever seen it, it's it's the military version of that. And and so, yes, most of the time they would carry cargo, do all that, give gas, but they could also receive gas, so you'd be flying behind other, and and it it was so much fun. I really actually love that part, but uh it could get scary. In fact, yeah. So there were many times where I was like, thank you, Lord, for letting me not die today. And uh pushed through that. But the Air Force was great, met some amazing Christians as well who wanted to serve their country, yeah. Wanted to model servant leadership, right? So we got to see that in many different ways. Wow. Uh yeah, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 19:31

Let me be probably the million person to say this to you, but thank you for your service. It it honestly, it's uh it's sacrificial. And I think a lot of us civilians don't understand the sacrifices that are involved with military life in that sacrificial service. Because you're really kind of giving up yourself in a lot of ways to serve a harvest. Do you see mirrors of Jesus in that? Because Jesus model what it meant to give up yourself.

SPEAKER_04 20:09

Yeah, oh yeah, yeah. I mean I would say, you know, it doesn't come close to achieving that Jesus level of sacrifice. But at the same time, there is like when I would sit spend Thanksgiving and Christmas away from my family so that you know we could I could serve my country. Yeah, um, yeah, that that became a reality. It became like, yep, I'm very much not in the norm. I'm very much experiencing this thing. Yeah. You know, is a choice.

SPEAKER_01 20:38

Right.

SPEAKER_04 20:39

It's a choice, and I'm laying down certain uh privileges of civilian life.

SPEAKER_00 20:44

Yeah. So that you can go above and beyond. I think that honestly could ground you and deepen your and strengthen your faith in the embodiment of Jesus by being able to to in in a way pick up a cross. Because that's really what it means to be a follower of Christ is picking up our cross. Yes, and alongside him.

SPEAKER_04 21:08

Trusting the Father. And in fact, one of the one of the most challenging times when I was uh in the Air Force was actually I was deployed, and my wife back home got in a car accident.

SPEAKER_01 21:18

Oh.

SPEAKER_04 21:19

And this was unsettling because normally I would do something about that. I would help her out. Yeah. I would make sure everything was okay. I was halfway around the world, I couldn't do anything. Oh man. And and God was meeting me in that moment. There was this song, Blessed Be Your Name. Blessed be your name in the desert place. It was like on the nose, right? Wow. I am in this desert place deployed. I can't do anything to protect my wife. God, would you be though? Yeah. Would you meet me in this need? And he did. In fact, I mean, I don't want to get into all the details, but it turned out she was fine health wise. Yeah. Um, we got a better car out of it. Like, you know, but in that moment I was kind of like, God, this is really. Really testing me. Yeah. I really have to trust you. But he was like, You can, I'm trustworthy. So, like.

SPEAKER_00 22:07

Thank you for sharing that.

SPEAKER_04 22:08

Yeah, that was that was a deep, like, hey, you would expect like the hardest thing of Air Force to be something of like battle exactly. Like, no, it was the home front for me. Like, how do I manage that?

SPEAKER_00 22:18

Man, that's powerful. And truly trusting God when you can't put a hand in it, right? You you can't step out of being deployed and go back home. Right. You have to fully rely on God. And I think there's a there's a real deep message there. And also, that also grounds our faith, too, to say, God, if I can't touch it, I know you can. God, if I can't be there to fix it, I know you can. And that to me, I think, is pivotal. Thank you for sharing that. And it's funny because my next question was kind of like that. Can you share a moment when you were in the Air Force or you experienced God and he showed up in a surprising and unconventional way?

SPEAKER_02 22:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:58

Um I think you answered it. I think you answered it.

SPEAKER_04 23:00

That's definitely the main one that I can think of. There's other instances too, where a lot of it may not be as glamorous, but it was just in those places of feeling depressed, down, like, oh man, what why am I doing this? Right. Having a reassurance of his presence, of fellow believers, even with me. Yeah. There are a number of instances.

SPEAKER_01 23:25

Amen. Amen.

SPEAKER_00 23:26

Alright, Dan, we're gonna talk about progression and calling. Okay. So if you trace your journey, all of the things that happened in childhood, to where you are now after the Air Force, where do you see God's hand like gently nudging you forward? You know, in moments that you probably didn't even realize, and then and you you're coming to mercy, and you're now our children's pastor. Talk to us about that. How did you see that nudge and on the calling of your life?

SPEAKER_04 23:58

Yeah. I think so. When I was in high school, I had more of a black and white view of things, and sometimes it was like, oh, God sent me, I'm gonna do this, and I'm gonna do this, and this will be for God, and this is how exactly, and then you live life and realize you don't know everything, and don't your ideas might not be exactly what God was doing, but what I love again about Philippians 3 14 is that ultimately we're looking to God for those things. That's true. And so, yeah, I went through something that was hard. I went through hard circumstances, deployments, yeah, uh, other challenges and losses and changes of life. Yeah, but ultimately it wasn't about those things that I was in. It was about who was pulling me through them. Yeah. Who was changing me through them? So I feel like through it all, God's call in my life has never been to just be one thing. Yeah. Never do just one thing. Right. I mean, I've wear worn lots of hats. I've been an Air Force pilot, I've been a reservist, I've been a teacher, that's right. Home dad. I've done lots of things. Yeah. But ultimately it's been God that's kind of for his purposes, for his kingdom, drawing me through those things. And it's more of an abiding sense of the purpose that God has, rather than like, I'm gonna be this and go do this. Because sometimes, especially when you guys at your age, it's like, what are you gonna be when you grow up? Yeah. What are you gonna do? How are we gonna make your marketing work? That haunting question. Yep. That somehow that starts to define me.

SPEAKER_01 25:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 25:39

Whereas I've realized over time that I might do lots of different things to bless others or to lead others. Right. That's not what defines me. What defines me is God.

SPEAKER_00 25:48

Come on and preach, brother. Come on and preach. Thank you for that word. I think we put pressure on ourselves, especially when we're young. It's like, oh, I I have to be this or I have to do this, and I have to do that, I gotta check this box, I gotta check that box, and it's like, no, you don't. Because God has a plan for your life. And then you've not only lived in the states, you've lived other places, like Switzerland, right? Yeah. Um how did you find yourself there? And and what lessons would you say God kind of gave you in those moments to kind of bring you to where you are now? And how did you end up back in the States?

SPEAKER_04 26:31

Right. Yeah, we we lived for a year in Switzerland, which was a bit of an adventure and a total privilege to be able to go do that. Yeah. Um, but it provided me an opportunity more than just in the Air Force where I'd be traveling, and you don't ever settle down, you need to be deployed or traveling through. Yeah. We actually lived among the people and and experienced culture shock for one of the first times.

SPEAKER_02 26:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 26:55

Where you actually start to feel in your body this is different. Like people value things differently, they speak differently. Yeah. Uh, there's a whole different sense. And and for me, as a very privileged white male in societies where, you know, generally, yeah, to be honest, I would, you know, be in a pinnacle class. Like now it was a little bit different.

SPEAKER_00 27:18

But the tables have returned a little bit.

SPEAKER_04 27:20

And where I can't show up as myself necessarily. Yeah. I can't fully show up in ways that I would uh be able to fully represent like who I am and how I am. Yeah. It it would always, there's parts of it that would feel less then. Wow. And have to walk through that was kind of again, it's a huge privilege. It's awesome. But it was a challenge in ways that I really didn't expect.

SPEAKER_00 27:47

Wow. And and has that shaped your faith? Or has it shaped you just as a person? Um or has it given you a different outlook? Especially when we see people who are not American, who are not from America, and they're in they're in our country? How have how has that shaped your like when you see someone who's a who's the foreigner? And you're like, oh, you're the foreigner, and you probably can't show up fully as sh as you because there's a language barrier, and there or there's a uh um uh a barrier to education or there's a barrier to finances, or there's so how has that shaped you in that in in a way?

SPEAKER_04 28:29

It definitely did. And in ways that I don't think you could teach somebody you couldn't tell them into. It's something I had to experience to see, and and I remember telling my wife at points like, oh my goodness, when I'm back in the States and somebody doesn't speak the language and they're trying to do something and I can do something about it, yeah, I'm gonna go to the math with these people because it is so hard to be in a place where you can't really fully understand the systems and how to advocate for yourself. And so yeah, it did actually give me a burden on my heart to advocate for people that are in a harder situation when I when I have power in those situations, right?

SPEAKER_00 29:10

Yeah, that's powerful, bro. That's powerful, and I think all of us should be looking for ways that we can advocate for others who can't. So I think that's a part of the cost. That's a whole lesson. It is, bro, it is. So when we're talking about leadership and we're talking about growth, um, and as you've grown into your your pastoral leadership style, what's one area uh where you've seen the most personal progression that helped you grow in that area? I know it's a loaded question.

SPEAKER_04 29:41

It is a loaded loaded question. I I think again, it's more it's kind of like laying down my own assumptions of what it would be. Yeah. Like sometimes we go into something and we assume, oh, God called me to do this, I'm gonna do it, and it's gonna end with like hurrah moments, and then I'm gonna have cake, and then you know, phew, the firewall. Confetti! Yeah, like no, no, that's mainly not real life. The real life might be like, alright, good job. Now we'll get back to the grind and you know, do something else Monday. Uh I think some of that reality, the reality is that God is gonna call you to do things. Go do those things. Yeah. You can be an instrument of God, of worship to God in all the things and ways that God's giving you creative passions and things to do. Yeah. And then as you do that, you will perform out of the joy of relationship that you have with them.

SPEAKER_00 30:35

Come on. Not out of a job.

SPEAKER_04 30:37

And that moment of performance is great. That's awesome, that's where everybody gets to see. But where it's at is where you come back to that relationship that is the power, that is the sustaining, like, yes, this is what it's all about is knowing Jesus. Amen. Knowing God. And then we have the privilege to like let that be known through other things. Amen, brother.

SPEAKER_00 30:58

You know, as you were talking, you reminded me of our conversation. Uh, last week, Dan and I were talking, and he was telling me about a lesson about Daniel and the Lion's man. And for those of you who don't know, Dan's full name is Daniel, okay? Um, and he doesn't know I was gonna bring this out, but he reminded me of something, and I think we all need to be reminded of that. One thing. Because you asked the students a question. You asked them who was the main character in the story of Daniel the Lion's Den?

unknown 31:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:29

Lay that on me again. It blessed my spirit so much.

SPEAKER_04 31:31

Yeah, so Daniel the Lion's den. Who's heard? Daniel and Lionstein. Yeah. Okay, so we all kind of have an idea. Yeah. Were the Lions the main character? No. They were scary, they were not little kittens like holy moly painted out. Not the main character. Was Daniel the main character?

SPEAKER_02 31:50

No, no, no.

SPEAKER_04 31:51

Oh, okay. See, in Kid Church, uh they said yes. And that makes sense. I mean, it's literally in the title. You would expect that to be the main character. But really, King Darius, who was the king that saw all this happen, he said, look, everyone, he made a decree. He said, reply all to everybody. Yep. You will worship this God that Daniel worships.

SPEAKER_01 32:15

Right.

SPEAKER_04 32:16

And in that declaration, he made God the main character. Amen. And really, when you think about my story, am I the main character? Does everything center around me? That looks different than like I am part of the story that centers around God.

SPEAKER_00 32:33

Come on. Come on. I think a lot of times we forget that. Because, and when we forget that, we put added pressure on ourselves as if we're the main character in the story, and the main character has to win. The main character has to be perfect, the main character has to get it right, and we forget the main character is God. And we're just a part of the story. That's so good. When you when I when I think about you and I think about children's ministry, what are some things that you've acquired over your years of being in the Air Force, being in the vineyard church, growing up in a conservative home, all those things that you bring to children's, and how do you shape those experiences to disciple those children? Our children.

SPEAKER_04 33:19

Yes. Okay. So yeah, through the midst of it all, I do think God's built in the uh uh capacity to work hard. Yeah. To when it comes to you know, like put in the grind, because children's work is a lot of work. Come on now. Uh there's part of that, but that's not the end of it. Uh there's also a lot of focus about genuine engagement. Like the best way to meet with kids and do kids' ministry is down on their level. Right. Literally, eye to eye, on the carpet. Yeah. You gotta meet them where they're at. And I think for me, that speaks to my heart because ever since when I came to know Jesus, yeah, it was about authenticity. It was about no kidding, yeah. Who is this Jesus? Right. Are we actually gonna talk about him or are we actually gonna meet and do the things he said? And so on a kid level to apply that is is kind of one of my heart's callings to like make the kingdom known.

SPEAKER_00 34:20

Come on.

SPEAKER_04 34:20

At all levels.

SPEAKER_00 34:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 34:22

Um and I I think God's you know put certain skills in in place, and others he's been chipping away and building those things. Yeah. But it it all contributes. Amen.

SPEAKER_00 34:35

It's all part. Isn't that interesting? Yeah when we think about how God orchestrates our life, right? How you went from being in America to Switzerland, how you went from uh growing up conservative, then going into the vineyard and then the Air Force and being a husband and a father and and and all of these things that have led to where you are now. It's this great orchestration of life, and God has the plan and the call, and so we never have to put the pressure back on ourselves and just trust and know, like Lord, hey, I it might even feel like you're on a roller coaster with Jesus sometimes. But as long as you know you're on the roller coaster with him, you're in good hands. The roller coaster may go up, it may go down, it may spin around, you may go upside down, but you're with him and you're safe, and you're gonna be good.

SPEAKER_04 35:27

And you know, bring me back to Philippians 3.14. I haven't arrived.

SPEAKER_00 35:32

Come on.

SPEAKER_04 35:32

God's not done. He's not done.

SPEAKER_00 35:35

I haven't arrived. Amen.

SPEAKER_04 35:38

And I'm grateful for that.

SPEAKER_00 35:40

Thank you. I got one more question, and then I'm gonna release the room to ask you hard questions, okay? Alright, so last question words of encouragement. What words of encouragement would you give about journey and progression to our middle and high schoolers that are listening right now?

SPEAKER_04 35:56

Yeah. So when I look at the environment, the landscape that you guys are growing up in, yeah, and at first I'm like, oh sorry. There's a there's a part of it that just seems very challenging. Everything is changing at the speed of life. Yeah. Uh the other day I was in Target, I was checking up, and uh, so Target, they've been a lot more friendly, I don't know. I think that's like one of their marketing places. Yeah, it is. Uh and this manager comes up to the cashier and he's like, hey, Jimmy, heard you're turning 20. I don't know, his name wasn't Jimmy, but uh he was being all friendly. I I didn't give him the benefit of the doubt it was genuine, but he was saying, You're turning 20, uh, and then he turns to me. And I'm like, wait, I didn't think I was in this show. And he's like, What advice do you have, sir, for this 20-year-old? And I was like, uh, well, uh, I just want the Jeep. I I didn't really have much on the tip of my time, but I thought about it for a second. Yeah. And I was like, well, things change, there's just so much change going on. Yeah. So my advice for a 20-year-old, it's also my advice for you.

SPEAKER_00 37:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 37:07

Find something that doesn't change.

SPEAKER_00 37:09

Whew. Come on and preach.

SPEAKER_04 37:11

And then as I was in the parking lot, the words came to me, I was like, alright, that would have been really good. I could have landed this way. But find something that is the same yesterday, today, and forever. Come on and preach. Oh, where have I heard that before?

SPEAKER_00 37:24

Come on and preach!

SPEAKER_04 37:26

Right? And so, in this world that where you are surrounded by influencers, yeah. Literally swimming in a sea of constant pain and messages about who you should be or how you should be. I just want you guys to know that that like ultimately God is calling you to just be with them.

SPEAKER_01 37:49

Yeah, man. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 37:51

And and let that be the thing. Yeah. And then take the other stuff as it comes. Let the thing that doesn't change anchor your life.

SPEAKER_00 38:01

Come on.

SPEAKER_04 38:04

Because the other stuff's gonna change. What you like, what you're excited about this year, it's gonna change.

SPEAKER_00 38:11

Fast. 6'7's gonna go away.

SPEAKER_04 38:13

6'7 won't be roughly long. It'll go the way it's quite grizzly. And uh, we all know what's right on this. Yeah. But really, on a personal level, seasons of life change.

SPEAKER_00 38:26

Yeah, man. Thank you. Thank you so much for being part of Podcast Sundays. We just wrapped up another episode of Podcast Sundays right here at Mercy Vineyard Church in Northeast Minneapolis. That was an interview with children's minister Dan Dutcher from Mercy Vineyard. If you are interested in learning more about Mercy Vineyard, please visit us at our website at www.mercyvineyard.org. That's www.mercyvineyard.org. This is youth director Jarrell Williams signing off with another episode of Podcast Sunday.