There's just so much bro science. There's so many people that are just showing off what they've achieved and what they can do because they do da da da da. And it just makes everybody wants to want to order things that they don't really need. There's a whole bunch of the influencer culture thing has really caused a problem. I think the main thing is just make sure that your source is reputable and that your source is licensed.
SPEAKER_00Today, July 23rd and 24th, the FDA is meeting to decide the fate of seven peptides. The ones you've been hearing about all over social media. But what the meeting is actually about is really different from what influencers are telling you. Welcome to the GLP1 Hub Podcast. I'm Anna Reisdorf, registered dietitian and GLP1 user. And today I'm welcoming Tana Donaldson, a physician assistant who spent 15 years in trauma emergency medicine before opening her own practice in Denver, where she now works with hormones, weight loss, and peptides every day. And so today we're going to break down what a peptide actually is, why your GLP1 is in a category completely of its own, the seven peptides on the FDA's table this week, from the wolverine complex to the sleep peptide, and the six things the FDA is worried about in that unlabeled vial. And also the two questions that will tell you whether a peptide provider is legitimate. So the Jill P1 conversation is growing into a whole nother area. And I'm excited to share this episode. So let's get into it. Welcome to the Jill P1 Hub podcast. I want to welcome today Tana Donaldson. She is a physician's assistant. Yes? Yes. Yes. And she has come on the podcast before. Um, but we're talking about something kind of new and exciting and with a lot of uh drama around it. Peptides. So, Tana, can you tell the people who you are and what you do and a little bit about your background?
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I am Tana Donaldson. I'm a PA. I run a practice in Denver called Red Bud Medical Spa. My background, ironically, very different from my medical spa. I did trauma and emergency medicine for about 15 years and then went out on my own a handful of years ago. And at first I was just doing women's health, which kind of morphed into obviously hormones, peripartum care, weight loss after having children, yeah, biodential hormone replacement, weight loss, peptides, and then of course all of the aesthetics. So I'm very happy doing that. It's very different than hospital medicine, that's for sure.
SPEAKER_00I bet less less stressful, or maybe stressful in a different way.
SPEAKER_02Different way, but yeah, less stressful. Yeah. I don't cry myself to sleep anymore.
SPEAKER_00Well, that's a step in the right direction.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So there is a lot of buzz about this word peptides. So starting from the very beginning, what is a peptide and why is there so much buzz about these things right now?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, peptides are, I mean, they've been around since the beginning. They're naturally occurring chains of amino acids. Everybody is familiar with something that is a peptide. Insulin's a peptide. There's a lot of things that are peptides. But essentially they're just a chain of amino acids that have some sort of known activity. This peptide helps with inflammation. This section of amino acids or this specific sequence of amino acids can help you eat less or lengthen telomeres or help the function of your mitochondria or whatever. So they've just been studied to the point that we know that this chain of amino acids has a certain activity in the body.
SPEAKER_00Okay. And a GLP1 is technically a peptide, but how is it different from these peptides that are floating around?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I'm glad you asked. We were just talking about this off the recording. It's very important to me that this gets translated well because some people think of GLP1s as peptides and some people don't. But I would rather the public kind of think of GLP1s as their own segregated category from all the rest of these peptides. And the reason is while it's true that you cannot patent, I can't remember the Supreme Court ruled long time ago that you can't patent an organic naturally occurring compound. And so a GLP1 at its most basic form is a naturally occurring compound. But semaglutide, ozimbic, is modified. You can patent that. Terzepitide is synthetic, so it's man-made. You can patent that. You can also patent different types of manufacturing, dosing, delivery methods. So you can patent that we're giving semaglutide through an auto injector pin at this dosing. So there's patentable parts of it, but a GLP one in its naturally occurring form is not patentable. But because they have their patents and they're commercially marketed, we all know this, it's because they were able to patent enough to recover the costs that were spent to do enough human clinical research to gain FDA approval. So the modified semaglutide, the synthetic trzeptide have been extensively studied in humans, reapproved, and commercially marketed. So totally different. The peptides we're talking about that the FDA is about to begin discussing are, yes, naturally occurring substances, but they are not picked up by big pharma. There's not huge human clinical trials going on. There's a reason for that. There is something called the funding gap. We can get into that. And there's a lot of uncertainty because of a lack of data about if these are safe, if they're pure, you know, all of these things. So very, very different from GLP1.
SPEAKER_00So where do compounded GLP1s fit on that spectrum? Because they're not the patented one by pharma, but they're still, I don't know, in this legal gray area kind of right now.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Well, everybody's mad for some reason. But compounding pharmacies are able to take the modified semaglutide or the synthetic terzepatite and add something to it. And now it's not the same. It's really just a real fun song and dance that we get to do in medicine. So you can get your semaglutide from a compounding pharmacy that is compounded with vitamin B12, or you see a lot of L-carnitine. Both of those make sense mechanistically, I guess. Physiologically, it makes sense that B12 could help with nausea. L-carnitine could help preserve lean muscle mass. So adding those two things, it makes sense. That said, they're nominal amounts. We're really just doing it to say it's different, it's not the same as the commercial product, and so it's not patent infringement.
SPEAKER_00Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's like a like a lot of legal stuff going on. It's hard to like tease it all out and let's have it. It's been like two years that there's been all these fights. But anyway, to the peptides. So they can't be patented, but they're out there. And I think that the reason why they're not well, why don't you start with like what the legal landscape is around them right now? Like, are they legal? Are they illegal? Like what what is the situation with that?
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Um I don't know that I want to comment on the legal, not legal, because I don't know that they're illegal. Right. I don't I really have an answer for you on that, but you cannot legally get them from a US pharmacy unless, you know, X, Y, Z. There's all this red tape. So you could get certain peptides that are maybe compounded with something else, and it's a 503 A or B pharmacy, and yeah, they have a reputable source, and that's okay. But as far as a physician compounding a peptide and calling it safe and legally being able to do it, what needs to happen is the ingredients of the peptides need to make it onto the five, it's called the 503 bulk supply list, which is really nerdy and uh useless information, but that's what it is. And if something is on the 503 bulk supply list, then it can be used legally to compound medications. The problem right now is these seven plus lots of others are not on the bulk supply list. And so the whole gist of this whole thing is to try to get these seven peptides on the bulk supply list so that they legally can be used to compound different combinations and peptides and distributed.
SPEAKER_00So I don't know if you're like I heard that they were available, but because they can't be patented, they got pulled by the FDA.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and I don't know all the ins and outs of what's happening. I do know that the FDA has a dangerous list. I also know interesting fun fact. I think we might have touched on this actually when we did our first GLP1 podcast because this happened with Ozympic a long time ago, in the very beginning. But if you put something on the dangerous list, it's going to be pulled from compounding pharmacies, well, and commercial, but they're not doing it anyway. It's gonna be pulled. But if you watch closely, the interesting fun fact is that simultaneously often there will be millions of dollars of research money invested into the research of these dangerous things. So it's like we're gonna research it, but while we do, just so that nobody else gets their hands on it, let's put it on the dangerous list.
SPEAKER_00Hmm. Yeah, that's what I was thinking is like they pulled these peptides and put it wherever so that people couldn't, because they can't be patented. So there's no real money in studying them.
SPEAKER_02It's called, it's called the funding gap. This is a a known thing, and this has been going on forever. This is not unique to peptides at all. There's enough pre-clinical data to justify more research. For instance, vitamin, pick a vitamin, vitamin E is good for you, right? It's like good for your hair, skin, nails. I don't know. It's good for you. But it's out there. You can go to Walgreens and buy 500 different kinds of vitamin E, and no one knows that from down when they look at them and they just pick one. There's enough clinical data to say vitamin E is good, but there's not enough commercial exclusivity to justify the multiples and multiples of hundreds of millions of dollars that's needed to do the human clinical research to get it FDA approved. So then you have this like purgatory for lack of better words. Like every supplement lives here too. You have the grass designation, which is generally regarded as safe. Like, we don't think it'll kill you. We're not sure what the max dose is. We're just gonna put it out there. And to your discretion, you know, we've done enough research to say like somewhere between 100 and 300 milligrams is probably good per day. But there's no, you know, you don't read these bottles and it doesn't say like do not take more than whatever each day, unless they know, which they usually don't. And so a lot of vitamins, a lot of things have fallen into this category where we know it should be researched more, but the juice isn't worth the squeeze because they can't patent it and do something with it. And so it just like sits there. And there's also some some argument about who should be financially responsible for that. You can't rely on, you know, a small pharmaceutical company to put hundreds of millions of dollars of research into something that they can't patent and sell and recover the cost from.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_02So should it be government, should it be the NIH, should it be, you know, educational institutions, like who should do it? And no one can agree, so nobody does it.
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SPEAKER_02What are they gonna talk about? They are meeting on July 23rd and 24th, and it does need to be appropriately framed because the the FDA is not meeting to approve the peptides as medications. They're not discussing, okay, these are FDA approved things. They are literally just meeting to see if these raw substances can be added to the bulk supply list or not. It's literally just that. So this meeting has gotten a lot of hype. To be totally frank with you, the stance of FDA staff is that they're not they're not researched enough, not safe enough, and they should not be added to the bulk supply list. Yes, people within the FDA have, you know, done their homework and there's been more research and more published and and there's more knowledge now. So maybe they have changed their thinking about it. We'll find out here very soon. Um, I think the likelihood is probably kind of low. Hmm. But I don't know. That's just that's that's Tana's opinion. I'm so excited they're even talking about it. I think that's a positive, yeah. It's a it's we're a step in the right direction, even if it doesn't get added to the bulk supply list. At least they're recognizing there's this new kind of category of things, and we need to acknowledge that it exists because clearly there are big physiologic benefits. How do we do this the right way? So, anyway, we'll see, we'll see what happens, but it's not a final FDA approval.
SPEAKER_00All right. So we were talking before that a lot of people that I know are on the peptides and where they're sourcing them from, you know, I don't ask a lot of questions because I'd rather just not know. But how are people getting them and are there safe places to get them from? And then where should you not get them from?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, great question. I order from two pharmacies only. Um, I'm super picky about this. I would not sleep well, and I probably would go back to crying myself to sleep if I knew that I had a patient that had a bad thing happen. And it was because I ordered some, you know, snake oil from India and they injected it. The thing, so there are seven, actually wrote them down. There are six things the FDA is concerned with. My biggest concern is stability and purity, but what if there's something else in this compound? Especially when you're ordering a white powder in an unlabeled vial that shows up to your door in a pack of 10. There's no dosing instructions, there's no phone number to call, there's no practitioner that you can get in touch with if you get even something so small as a rash and so large as sepsis. We are asking patients to do injections at home. It's one thing with an auto injector pin when you wipe it with alcohol and the needle is super tiny, the risk is pretty low. But when we're sending bacteriostatic saline and a needle to draw with, a needle to inject with, and we're asking patients to do this without any coaching on how to do this in a sterile way, how to reduce the rate of infection, any of that. We're, I feel like we're just asking for it. So I try pretty hard to make sure that my patients are comfortable doing this at home. They don't have to do it at home, they can always come to me, but I would never recommend that you just order something. It's crazy to me the risk people are willing to take. Yeah. Like you won't skydive, but you'll order a white powder from another country that shows up in an unlabeled box with no oversight and inject it into your body.
SPEAKER_00Right. What is wrong with people? I I hate to say this, but I'm actually kind of surprised that there hasn't been just like massive. Maybe there has been, and I'm just not at the ER, but you know.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02I mean, I don't know. And I don't know if we have enough resources. It's so new that even if I was in the ER today and someone came in and coded, first of all, they can't tell me that they just injected, you know, DSIP from China two days ago. But even if they did, I don't know if we have enough knowledge or enough, we don't have a way to test for that. How would we even know to attribute their, you know, their heart attack, their gallbladder problem, their sepsis, their whatever to this injection? So probably a lot of it is going undernoticed, you know, not documented.
unknownSure.
SPEAKER_02And maybe not a lot of bad things are happening. Surely these other countries care slightly about not being found out and going down. But the other more scary thing, like those really bad outcomes, I don't think people are going to intentionally cause that. I think it's more likely that they sell you something that isn't going to hurt you and is also not going to help you.
SPEAKER_00Right. Right.
SPEAKER_02Something that's just in a that'll go under the radar. You're just going to keep spending money.
SPEAKER_00Right. Right. It's just like anything, like vitamins. Sometimes they do studies and they're not they don't even have the active ingredient in them or whatever. So if you are interested in learning more about peptides, what are the seven that they are talking about and kind of what do they do?
SPEAKER_02All right. I'll go through them kind of quick because you could get we could do a whole podcast on one peptide. So number one, which is probably the most popular and known, is BPC. BPC157 is a 15 amino acid sequence that's derived from uh it's a gastric peptide. Um we use it for tendon and ligament repair, gut inflammation, post-stop recovery. So basically things that hurt and gut stuff. The FDA has formally evaluated it for ulcerative colitis. I don't know what the outcome of that was, but clearly we don't have an approval or anyone that has licensed it or whatever. But we do we get excited about all the animal research on BPC 157, but I'm gonna say this seven times. We don't have enough human clinical data. So that's on the table. The next one is called KPV. KPV is tiny, it's a three amino acid sequence. It's all about inflammation. It's just anti-inflammatory everywhere. It got its name because of its ability to give an accelerated wound recovery. If you have like a an open wound, it can help recover faster. There, there is really promising, great pre-clinical research on this. Uh, it looks very good, but I'm gonna say it again. We don't have enough human clinical data on that. Number three, which is often in combination with BPC 157. Some people refer to that combination as the wolverine complex. Uh-huh. That's one that's popular. Yeah, but that usually also includes the copper peptide, which is not one of the seven. But TB500 is a shortened version of thymocine beta four. It's very similar to BPC157. I think of them in the same way. This uses a little bit of a different pathway through the immune system, but nevertheless, it's also been evaluated by the FDA for wound healing. There's a lot more data on thymocine beta 4, which is longer. It's a longer chain. TB500 is shorter. And so, of course, because the FDA is so stringent, they want to prove that that shortened piece is still efficacious and that you don't need the Long chain. The neck number four is MOT C. MOT C is easy for me to remember because of the M. I don't know why I always think of mitochondria. So this is the like power energy generating peptide. We use it for metabolic health, exercise recovery, performance, insulin sensitivity, and also for obesity. It can help with, like I said, insulin sensitivity. The FDA did evaluate it for obesity and interestingly also for osteoporosis. Because it does help cells generate more energy and stay healthier longer. Kind of the same as the other three. Really compelling preclinical science, not enough human clinical data. The next one, number five, is DSIP. This one, when I first learned about this one, I got super excited because this is delta sleep-inducing peptide. And delta is the brainwave that puts you that you're in when you're sleeping. Yeah. And I just my sleep is trash often. And so I would really love that this, I would love it if this peptide just made people sleep well. I think it's a little bit confusing, but it does help with sleep initiation, sleep maintenance. It helps with substance withdrawal, which is interesting. And has also been known to help with uh pain. The FDA evaluated it for opioid withdrawal, narcolepsy, and insomnia. And this one has very few studies. Very, very few.
SPEAKER_00Have you tried that one for sleep?
SPEAKER_02Nope. I haven't. No. I haven't. I believe it or not. Like I'm I'm conservative and I'm cautious. And I like, yeah, I'm never the first one to line up for the new iPhone. Like, I'm gonna wait for all those bunts to get worked out, and then I'll get my new phone. Sure, sure. So what else do we have? The last one is C Max, and that one is actually synthetic. It can be a little confusing because it's derived from a hormone called ACTH, which is adrenocorticotropic hormone. That's forget I just said that, but that's the hormone that stimulates your adrenal glands to make cortisol. So when people learn this, they're like, why would I want that? I'm just gonna feel like a stress machine all the time. But that it doesn't actually stimulate the adrenals to spit out a bunch of cortisol. It's pretty cool how it doesn't do that, but it helps with cognition attention, it protects your brain, it can help with stroke recovery. The research on C-MAX is incredible. So many other countries use it routinely. This is one the only one of the seven that is legally used in many other countries for a lot of brain-related things. And the stroke recovery piece of it is very compelling, really fascinating. Um, and I have had no issue prescribing this one. I'm very excited about the CMAX. Yeah. Oh, did I say that was seven? Sorry, there's one more. Okay, one more. Epitalon, which is the longevity peptide. We use it for melatonin regulation, but it has its name because it can increase the length of telomeres and telomere shortening is kind of equivalent to your length of life, people think. And so if you can keep your telomeres long, the idea is that you live longer, not a lot of data. So, how are these usually taken?
SPEAKER_00Are they all injectables?
SPEAKER_02Yes. There, yes, the data that's out is usually from is injectable data. There's some animal studies on some peptides with um topicals, with orals. The problem with anything, and you know this just well as anybody else, but um oral stuff has to bypass the GI system and can really get chewed up and uh just not absorbed very well. So the the best shot people have at getting a benefit from these is almost always going to be in injectable form. But that presents its own, like I already discussed, it presents its own set of complications because of all the things we already talked about. So, would it be nice to have, you know, a DSIP pill, like a take at 10 o'clock and sleep like a baby? It'd be really awesome. But whether or not that actually works, I don't know. And I don't know if we're ever gonna know because I don't know who's gonna put the money into it.
SPEAKER_00So right now, I mean, there's a lot of prescribers prescribing it, even if they are getting it from legitimate sources. So if like your prescriber offers you something, like when would be a case that you might want to consider one of these?
SPEAKER_02My rule, and I like my practice now is so has become so functionally focused that I uh pride myself on on being able to help people optimize. Like I love it when a patient comes in and they're like, I'm healthy and I don't have any issues. I just want to see what I can do better. I think that's amazing. Um, at the same time, if you're willing to take the risk on something that's still undergoing all this research, I would really love the juice to be worth the squeeze. Like, I don't want you to take BPC 157 and TB500 if you feel good, you know. But if you just had surgery, let's do it. It makes perfect sense. You'll probably recover a lot faster. Um, yeah. So it's really like if the if the problem uh demands some sort of attention, then yeah, maybe it's worth it to take something, but just to take them. I have had a few people approach me that just want me to order, you know, 10 different peptides, really for no reason. They just want to try them. And that's where, like, if you have a reaction or a problem or some sort of side effects, even though that's low likelihood, even if it happened, how would we know what to attribute it to?
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SPEAKER_02No, no, there's not enough data. There's not enough research. We haven't been doing this long enough. You know, maybe in 20 years, when some guy is 120 years old and says that he's been injecting epithelon for a while, we'll be like, uh-huh. You know, that's the trick. But I think it's gonna take some time before we know. Or and it's also gonna take some bad outcomes. Sadly, that's how things get fixed. You know, we lose some people, people get sick, then we start to figure out oh, if you do this with that, it's a bad combination. If you do too much of that, it causes this.
SPEAKER_00Are there any cancer concerns with some of these? Because I know some have like growth things or yeah.
SPEAKER_02The case, so it might be easiest. There's six things that the FDA is concerned about. And it's I think it's good for people to know that because it should be what we're concerned about too. Number one is identity, is it what the label says it is? Just because someone slapped a piece of paper on it that says, you know, DSIP doesn't mean it's DSIP, it's just a white powder. Purity, are there truncated peptides, meaning did they shorten it because it's cheaper and it's not actually active, but you know, you're buying kind of what you wanted. Is there are there endotoxins or metals or some kind of additive in there that could be harmful that could build up in your body? The third is aggregation, and that's that sort of answers your question. They know that over time peptides can aggregate, so they can clump up. They can also degrade. So using them far past their expiration date, is there really a physiologic risk? Probably not immediately. Probably it just won't work very well. It'll be degraded or something. But if they aggregate and they clump up, could it turn in, you know? Like if your immune system finds that and it causes an inflammatory response, could it cause a problem? Um, immunogenicity, you could form antibodies to it. We don't know, but that could happen. So that's number four. Number five is sterility. You know, people could have dosing errors, they can have sepsis, they can get abscesses where they've injected, and then stability, which is temperature, light, pH, how it's handled, is it okay being shipped? These are lots of really big questions, not necessarily problems, could be problems, you know. But as far as the cancer risk goes, there are a couple peptides that cause angiogenesis, primarily TB500. That's the main one that causes new blood vessels to be formed. I think the idea in animal models, it's showing that it actually can shrink tumor size. But we're not going to inject it into a human tumor and just see what happens. Right. So, like, you know, how are we going to know? So the idea behind the fear is that if you're creating new blood vessels, what if you're now feeding a tumor that you didn't know was there and it was this, like, you know, tiny nodule, and then you go have your colonoscopy in a few years and you have stage four colon cancer because you super fed a tumor. That's dramatic, but that's the idea. So my middle of the road there is I will not negotiate on preventative care. Labs, colonoscopy, mammograms. I every every year, even though I'm not I don't have to have a pap smear, they've been normal, so like I can do it every five years. I'm gonna ask every year that she just does it anyway. My insurance your insurance pays for this stuff. So preventative care is a really big deal to me. I'm 44 and I've already had a colonoscopy, two of them actually, because I asked for it, because I use peptides. So I want to know that things are clean and good and there's nothing going on anywhere. Yeah. So I'm h and for my patients, I'm happy to image things, do whatever we need to do to touch, you know, someone has a strong family history of something. I'm I'm careful about this stuff.
SPEAKER_00Sure. So if you're interested in learning more about peptides or finding a quality provider, obviously you have a lot of knowledge about this. Like, where would you start with that?
SPEAKER_02Not come to me, obviously. I'll help you. But I think having knowing the right questions to ask is a big one. Like, there's a lot of international websites that you can order from that put a PDF on their homepage. It's hilarious, actually. It's a certificate of analysis saying, like, we send our stuff to this place and they're all pure and sterile and blah, blah, blah, blah. That means nothing about the vial that's in your hands. Your peptide, whatever it is, should come or could come. It doesn't, they don't always send it with every shipment. That's kind of overkill. But there should be a certificate of analysis by a third party, not someone in the back room where the dead rats are, but a third party that's out there that took your stuff, analyzed it, gave you a certificate to say it's sterile, it's pure, you know, all of these things. So that's that's a big one. Um, the well, another big one is making sure that whoever your provider is is only ordering from a 503 A or B pharmacy. Like just ordering from another country because it's cheaper, it is just not worth the savings. Um, it's bizarre that that's even a conversation. But um, yeah, those are the two main things.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think that the cost, you know, people see, oh, this person's trying to charge me $200 for this, but like I found it on this website for $50.
SPEAKER_02But this is uh whole conversation. There are just some things you don't go cheap on.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, no, I completely agree. Especially if you if, like you said, a white powder coming from God knows where. Yeah. Like, what are you gonna do with that? So, what are some final thoughts that you want to leave people with about peptides? Maybe where to stay informed, where to learn more about them, or anything like that.
SPEAKER_02I think my biggest frustration right now doing this is that is social media. Even though this will end up on social media, and I'm happy for that because we're both professional people who are talking about facts. Uh, there's just so much bro science. There's so many people that are just showing off what they've achieved and what they can do because they do da-da-da-da-da. And it just makes everybody wants to want to order things that they don't really need. Um, there's a whole bunch of the influencer culture thing has really caused a problem. I think the main thing is just make sure that your source is reputable and that your source is licensed. Licensed to practice whatever it is they're talking about, and not just telling you to do what they did, because we are not all created equal physiologically at all. What you need is not what I need, not today or tomorrow or ever. You have a rash, you have any problem, you have someone to call, you have someone to order and monitor your labs, you have someone to talk through your family history, your personal history, your medications, make sure there's no issues with that. All of this stuff is so important. Yeah, I don't know where where people got off thinking these were like cute little over-the-counter gummy vitamins or something, but they're not innocuous and they can cause problems, big ones, and you do have to be careful.
SPEAKER_00So I completely agree. It's like they're treating them like supplements, like, are you taking the new supplement, the new protein shake? But it's like an injectable thing with like actual effects. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Some of which are unknown. So well, that's the scariest part. Yeah. We don't know. It might be doing good things. What else is it doing? Right. Exactly. So, where can people find out about you and your work, Tana? Yeah. Um, my practice is called Red Bud Medical Spa. We're in Denver. The website is Redbud MedicalSpa.com. The Instagram handle is Red Bud Med Spa. And yeah.
SPEAKER_00Awesome. Well, thank you so much for coming on, and it's always so great to talk to you. Yes, you too. Thanks for having me. Hope you enjoyed this conversation with Tana Donaldson about peptides. I know that I personally learned a lot. I haven't tried them yet. Still kind of waiting on what happens with all of this legal stuff and research and everything, but people are having, you know, interesting results with them. So lots more to come, I am sure. And if you want a little bit more support on your GLP1 journey, make sure you check out the GLP1 store. You can find that at GLP-1Hub.com and click on the link at the top for the store. Over there, you will find our Beyond the Shot Guide, which is all the basics about nutrition that you need to get started. A plateau busting handbook. So if you've been in the plateau, you're gonna want to grab that because it'll give you tiny tweaks you can make to get through that plateau, and then several meal plans and recipe collections over there, and they are all e guides. You can find the link for that below in the show notes. And I'll see you in the next episode.